[03:34] <acoauapl> hi
[06:43] <ali1234> YES
[06:44] <ali1234> i finally killed the most annoying bug ever
[06:49] <sagaci> bug #102938?
[06:49] <ali1234> no, it was much more annoying than that
[07:00] <AlanBell> gosh, my hosepipe ban was lifted yesterday
[07:01] <AlanBell> morning everyone, how are you this damp and miserable day?
[07:04] <DJones> Morning all
[07:07] <diplo> Morning all
[07:08] <diplo> Were you taking notice of said Hose pipe ban AlanBell ?
[07:11] <AlanBell> I have been wanting to get out and use the hose to water things for ages, but it wouldn't stop raining long enough for me to do so
[07:17] <diplo> lol
[07:17] <diplo> Reading in another channel that someone was using their water butt to clean their car
[07:17] <diplo> As it was so full of rain
[08:06] <mattt> morning all
[08:07] <Twinkletoes> Morning :)
[08:12] <gord> nothing like failing raid arrays to kick start your morning!
[08:13] <diplo> :(
[08:18] <mattt> gord: failing or failed?
[08:28] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[08:31] <bigcalm> Greetings, Earthlings :)
[08:32]  * popey hands gord a btrfs volume
[08:38]  * diplo is deciding he hates javascript more and more
[08:38] <diplo> :)
[08:40] <bigcalm> Awww
[08:40] <bigcalm> diplo: say it ain't so
[08:41] <bigcalm> With the right framework, js can be fun
[08:41] <diplo> Oh but this isn't a framework
[08:41] <diplo> This is pure js, written 7 years ago
[08:41] <diplo> Within a php4 app
[08:42] <diplo> I'm down to last few bugs now, and the last few are taking longer than the majority
[08:47] <bigcalm> I've slowly replaced the old non-framework js in a project with lovely jquery
[08:48] <diplo> This project hasn't been touched in maybe 4-5 years
[08:48] <diplo> They've just been upgraded to centos 6
[08:48] <diplo> And on Friday I got asked to find out why it wasn't working basically
[08:48] <bigcalm> Have things stopped working?
[08:48] <diplo> And I don't think they want to spend any more fixing it
[08:48] <diplo> Oh yes :D
[08:48] <bigcalm> More likely to be the PHP than the JS
[08:49] <diplo> A lot of stuff dependant on register_globals
[08:49] <diplo> The machine is soooo much faster than the old one for the js
[08:49] <diplo> php
[08:49] <diplo> that stuff is going quicker and stuff is erroring out
[08:50] <bigcalm> It was relying upon race conditions?
[08:52] <diplo> No
[09:06] <JohnRobert> hello
[09:06] <JohnRobert> can anyone recommend a good gnome/xfce distro for use on an old eeepc?
[09:07] <jussi> JohnRobert: Xubuntu
[09:09] <JohnRobert> it's a 1.6ghz atom with 1gb ram monster
[09:11] <dwatkins> I have lubuntu on my Eee.
[09:15] <AlanBell> JohnRobert: personally I would put standard Ubuntu Precise or Quantal on it
[09:15] <directhex> windows 2000!
[09:15]  * directhex flees
[09:15] <AlanBell> Windows ME!
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> Windows CE?
[09:16] <oimon> i have lubuntu on my eee 701
[09:16] <bigcalm> Windows NT?
[09:16] <AlanBell> JohnRobert: I think you will find it works quite well with Unity 3D because the GPU bit can take some of the load off the CPU
[09:16] <bigcalm> Windows CE ME NT
[09:16] <JohnRobert> interesting alan_g
[09:17] <JohnRobert> AlanBell I mean
[09:17] <JohnRobert> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00729d9
[09:17] <JohnRobert> these are excellent
[09:17] <popey> i have ubuntu 12.04 on my eee 1.6ghz
[09:17] <popey> and on my eee 900Mhz
[09:17] <JohnRobert> the verdict popey?
[09:18] <popey> it works fine
[09:18] <AlanBell> those Atom processors have intel graphics which work *fine*
[09:18] <JohnRobert> most interesting
[09:19] <popey> my kids have an eee 900 each
[09:19] <popey> both have ubuntu 12.04 with unity 2d on
[09:22] <JohnRobert> cool, yeah this will be for my gf's 6yr old
[09:24] <JohnRobert> hmm
[09:24] <JohnRobert> can you boot from sdcard on the eeepc?
[09:25] <JohnRobert> apparently yes
[09:25] <oimon> yes
[09:25] <JohnRobert> that's quite neato
[09:33] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:37] <bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
[09:38] <gord> hey guys, i figured out how to get my raid to work again, you just have to add and remove drives from the machine almost at random and then it works somehow
[09:38] <brobostigon> hi bigcalm
[09:40] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:40] <bigcalm> gord: fixed your keyboard?
[09:43] <gord> yup
[09:43] <oimon> diplo, still on cinnamon :D
[09:44] <oimon> good performance and no annoyances yet
[09:45] <diplo> I've moved back to Unity, but using Gnome Do as well
[09:45] <diplo> Cinnamon was crashing a lot for me
[09:46] <oimon> hasbn't crashed once here
[09:46] <oimon> that i remember
[09:46] <oimon> cinnamon+synapse+plank
[09:47] <diplo> Will try tomorrow and see if any of the updates have fixed any of my issues
[09:48] <bigcalm> gord: so you'll be joining us on Thursday? :)
[09:51] <oimon> does rubbing fruit with your finger count as cleaning it?
[09:54] <bigcalm> How clean is your finger?
[09:55] <JohnRobert> xubuntu 12.04 booting from usb on a eeepc redefines slowness
[09:55] <oimon> well it looks clean...
[09:56] <oimon> once i saw a colleague stab a milkshake carton to pierce the lid, with a screwdriver. he pushed the screwdriver all the way down (a long screwdriver), then sucked the screwdriver
[09:57] <oimon> i happened to know that the screwdriver had been used in the most dusty and dirty crevices in the office
[09:57] <oimon> including possibly poking a dead mouse
[09:58] <JohnRobert> hmm
[10:01] <diplo> Dirts good :)
[10:01] <diplo> Everyones to clean now, making people more ill
[10:01] <diplo> There are limits to my decision's on dirt though :P
[10:04] <bigcalm> Hello mrevell, will you be joining us on Thursday?
[10:11] <directhex> JohnRobert, is that a statement on the os, or the usb, though?
[10:14] <JohnRobert> probably both
[10:14] <JohnRobert> and the hardware
[10:14] <JohnRobert> although now it's booted it seems ok
[10:14] <JohnRobert> I guess usb live things are never quick
[10:14] <directhex> depends on the usb stick
[10:16] <dogmatic69> \o/ just got some HDD's for the NAS
[10:18] <AlanBell> JohnRobert: live USB is slow for several reasons (compressed filesystem and slow transfer speed)
[10:19] <AlanBell> and decompression on the CPU that you are also trying to use for stuff
[10:20] <AlanBell> does xubuntu use compiz for drawing and moving the windows?
[10:20] <directhex> i assume it uses xfwm4?
[10:20] <JohnRobert> it looks as though it's doing some compositing
[10:21] <AlanBell> directhex: that is a reasonable assumption, didn't think of that ;)
[10:22] <AlanBell> so I think it would be smoother with unity3d or gnome-session-fallback using compiz
[10:22] <gord> bigcalm: maybe, think its depending on the weather
[10:29] <selinuxium> Hi all, long time no see...  :)
[10:35] <JohnRobert> heh out of memory
[10:35] <JohnRobert> eeepc :/
[10:37] <Pendulum> AlanBell: what's the link to your AAC project again?
[10:37] <AlanBell> hi Pendulum
[10:37] <AlanBell> https://github.com/AlanBell/wespeak
[10:37] <directhex> JohnRobert, running from usb? that can happen, i guess
[10:37] <JohnRobert> I take it there's no swap when you boot from usb?
[10:38] <AlanBell> Pendulum: the running demo is a bit different to the github code now
[10:38] <Pendulum> ah, okay
[10:41] <AlanBell> Pendulum: doing something interesting with it?
[10:42] <JohnRobert> cloud9 seems fairly unreliable
[10:44] <Pendulum> AlanBell: linking mgdm to it because I knew he'd probably be interested
[11:17] <oimon> who's runnign chromium on ubuntu?
[11:17] <dogmatic69> o/
[11:17] <oimon> what version?
[11:18] <dogmatic69> 18.0.1025.168
[11:18] <oimon> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/28/google_chrome_update/
[11:18] <oimon> wonder how many security bugs are in 18?
[11:18] <oimon> and if it's not being updated, is it dangerous (probably)
[11:25] <popey> the article says in the first line.. "none of which are deemed critical"
[11:27] <popey> Micah Gersten is probably the guy to ask
[11:28] <Daviey> Hmm.. not really.. traditionally he has been driving it, but i think that is not accurate now.
[11:29] <Daviey> chromium isn't in main, so the ubuntu security team and/or Canonical don't commit to keeping it secure.
[11:36] <bigcalm> Is it subway or chippy for lunch today?
[11:36] <bigcalm> Good point, subway it is then
[11:42] <Daviey> bigcalm: gettusone
[11:58] <dogmatic69> great new site from xkcd http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/
[12:01] <JohnRobert> I like the SAT test one
[12:27] <The_Fred> hello
[12:31] <oimon> popey, does that mean critical updates would be applied? i think not. i think a lot of ubuntu users are runnign chromium without realising the level of unsupport
[12:31] <popey> brobostigon, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ saw that, thought of you
[12:32] <popey> oimon, this is why i run firefox and chrome, and not chromium
[12:32] <oimon> v19 has critical fixes
[12:33] <popey> so someone should probably patch that
[12:34] <JohnRobert> beos
[12:34] <JohnRobert> sounds like it was really good
[12:52] <JohnRobert> anyone here ever used ionice?
[12:53] <kirrus> yup
[12:53] <kirrus> why?
[12:53] <JohnRobert> does it affect the ui responsiveness much?
[12:53] <JohnRobert> I'm wondering if there's a way to make linux feel much more snappy
[12:53] <JohnRobert> eg more like beos sort of snappy
[12:53] <kirrus> It affects diskprocessing priority
[12:53] <kirrus> if that's the bottleneck, maybe
[12:54] <JohnRobert> hmm
[12:54] <kirrus> but be aware, a lot linux does is nessasary, and ioniceing stuff just for the sake of it could cause trouble
[12:54] <JohnRobert> are there any X servers that are better than xf.org?
[12:54] <JohnRobert> yeah like delayed writes
[13:01] <kirrus> JohnRobert: not as far as I'm aware. Mostly I'd have expected the UI to only be sluggish if your system is trying to do too much with too few resources. Tried using openbox or similar?
[13:01] <The_Fred> JohnRobert, check this : http://ubuntuguide.net/how-to-speed-up-ubuntu-laptopold-machine-with-low-ram
[13:02] <The_Fred> JohnRobert, and this: http://modifyubuntu.com/
[13:02] <AlanBell> JohnRobert: did you try unity3d?
[13:03] <The_Fred> hello AlanBell !
[13:03] <AlanBell> hi The_Fred
[13:03] <directhex> mmm, there's a real issue with UI latency on linux
[13:03] <directhex> if you have a beos background especially
[13:03] <directhex> it's not related to the system spec really, more the kernel governor
[13:05] <JohnRobert> yeah, but I'm not sure it changes much if you chagne the governor
[13:05] <JohnRobert> iirc I tried it once on a custom kernel
[13:06]  * bigcalm waddles back in
[13:06] <bigcalm> I was weak, the chippy called to me
[13:10] <bigcalm> Just want to sleep now
[13:10] <diplo> take it wifey is out tonight then ?
[13:20] <bigcalm> diplo: me?
[13:21] <diplo> yah, having chips for lunch not cause arguement at tea time ?
[13:21] <bigcalm> Heh
[13:21] <bigcalm> diplo: maybe once we're married ;) That's not until next year
[13:22] <bigcalm> diplo: tea isn't going to be until gone 8pm tonight, so I thought it was safe to be naughty
[13:22] <bigcalm> How do you tell git to use a particular ssh key?
[13:27] <bigcalm> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2419566/best-way-to-use-multiple-ssh-private-keys-on-one-client
[13:27] <bigcalm> Possibly
[13:27] <diplo> Ah everyones married in my books once they live together, as the blokes are under the thumb straight away
[13:27] <diplo> :P
[13:28] <bigcalm> Haha
[13:28] <diplo> I use .ssh/config, mines quite large now
[13:28] <diplo> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/580894_307621156000482_1320972821_n.jpg
[13:29] <diplo> My little dude last few days of Nursery, so they dressed him up
[13:29] <diplo> :P
[13:29] <bigcalm> I think Hayley and I surprise people for 2 reasons: 1) the 7 year age gap (her being older) and 2) how equal we share life. Neither is under the thumb of the other
[13:29] <bigcalm> diplo: heh, cool
[13:29] <diplo> 2) believe it for now :D
[13:29] <bigcalm> Bah :P
[13:30] <diplo> 17 years for me, so think I'm ok to think that.
[13:30] <bigcalm> We enjoy 3 years in every 10 of being in the same decade
[13:31] <diplo> heh, I like the way you two approach things though
[13:31] <diplo> My mates with a woman about 10years his senior
[13:31] <diplo> Very happy
[13:35] <DJones> my wife is with a bloke 15 years her senior
[13:36] <diplo> You defo see it more the other way round
[13:36] <bigcalm> Indeed, but are they as happy? ;)
[13:36] <DJones> diplo: Agreed
[13:37] <diplo> Guess so, parents neighbours are the same as DJones and that's about 30 years or more now
[13:37] <DJones> So many people said it wouldn't last because of the age difference, proved them all wrong, just had our 8th wedding anniversary earlier this year
[13:38] <DJones> The only wierd thing is that when we used to go to family get togethers with her parents, other people thought I was her dads son beause they thought I looked like him
[13:40] <directhex> okay, this is huge, imho: Kinect now does calorie tracking across all games. i.e. play *any* Kinect game & get charts on calories burned, not just fitness games
[13:41] <diplo> cool
[13:41] <diplo> And not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing DJones :D
[13:43] <DJones> diplo: I'd have been more worried for my father in law, he only had one daughter, no boys, where di the other people think a 30+ year old son suddenly appeared from
[13:43] <diplo> lol
[13:43] <diplo> that is more worrying
[13:44] <DJones> Specially as he was choirmaster and musician at church
[13:44] <DJones> With his wife & daughter in the choir
[13:47] <diplo> :)
[13:47] <bigcalm> Tut tut ;)
[13:52] <dwatkins> could someone please advise me how/whether to install the kernel source (as opposed to headers, whcih are in the repos) for natty in order to install and compile the qc-usb driver for a Quickcam, please?
[13:55] <gord> dwatkins: apt-get install linux-source
[13:56] <dwatkins> gord: I tried that, perhaps I have a misconfiguration of my sources.list as it failed
[13:56] <dwatkins> Package kernel-source is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[13:56] <gord> sounds like you have some out of date repos or something
[13:57] <dwatkins> ah yes, good call. I could apt-get update and upgrade alright, but perhaps something else is wrong.
[14:08] <dogmatic69> If I have two folders mounted from Server A on Server B, what would (not on the server) mv folderA/foo folderB/ do? does it copy the files from the server over the net and back to the server?
[14:09] <dwatkins> I don't think you can move a mountpoint whilst it's in use, dogmatic69 - I'd move subdirectories within them explicitly.
[14:10] <dwatkins> if you mean moving a subdirectory, it would probably use the network connection of the client to move the file, at least that's what my laptop does.
[14:10] <dogmatic69> dwatkins: I want to move files from one mount point to another
[14:12] <dogmatic69> but 60gigs +-, and mv foo bar is pretty quick on the same drive etc. Its almost like I need to rather send the command 'mv foo bar' as opposed to actually running it.
[14:12] <dwatkins> I don't believe there's a mechanism to simply inform the server to perform the move internally, it uses the network connection of the client. You'd be best performing the action on the server via an ssh login.
[14:13] <dogmatic69> its a basic nas box, not sure there is ssh
[14:13] <dwatkins> it may depend on the mechanism you're sharing with, samba, NFS etc.
[14:13] <dogmatic69> nfs
[14:13] <dwatkins> most basic NAS boxen run linux from what I understand.
[14:13] <dogmatic69> ye, its linux. that does not mean it has ssh enabled. Its embeded
[14:14] <dogmatic69> just checked the guide, not one mention of ssh
[14:14] <dwatkins> depending on the device it may be possible to install/enable ssh
[14:14] <dogmatic69> it has ftp though. I guess I could ftp in and do MOV foo bar
[14:15] <dwatkins> http://nfsv4bat.org/Documents/ConnectAThon/2010/ss-copy-spec.pdf
[14:16] <diplo> dogmatic69: no rsync ?
[14:16] <diplo> Friends embedded box has rsync
[14:16] <diplo> oh just noticed, maybe no ssh either
[14:17] <diplo> :/
[14:17] <dogmatic69> well if it had no ssh..
[14:17] <dogmatic69> its http://uk.level1.com/product_d.php?id=283
[14:18] <bigcalm> Sexy
[14:19] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: the nas?
[14:19] <bigcalm> Yus
[14:19] <dogmatic69> want to guess the price?
[14:19] <bigcalm> More than the price of my internal organs
[14:19] <dwatkins> one billion dollars... *puts little finger in mouth*
[14:19] <dogmatic69> 85 quid, delivered. NIB
[14:19] <bigcalm> o.O
[14:19] <dwatkins> how much storage, dogmatic69?
[14:20] <oimon> bigcalm, my missis is nearly 9 yrs younger. got lots of pats on the back for dating a 19yr old when i was 27/28
[14:20] <dogmatic69> dwatkins: it has a max of 4 500gig, with RAID5 its 1.5TB
[14:20] <dwatkins> dogmatic69: ah, delivered diskless?
[14:20] <dogmatic69> yes
[14:20] <dwatkins> my NAS is a netbook ;)
[14:21] <dogmatic69> got 4 hdd's for 140
[14:21] <dwatkins> I was considering a Synology or a Drobo.
[14:21] <dogmatic69> synology is nice, but they are so pricey.
[14:22] <oimon> drobo has a bad name, unless you have 2 of them
[14:22] <dogmatic69> 400+ for just the unit
[14:22] <diplo> I thought about those, but went for microserver in the end
[14:22] <oimon> prorieaary raid
[14:22] <oimon> proprietary
[14:22] <Laney> tell me good / bad things about giffgaff, please
[14:22] <Laney> :-)
[14:22] <diplo> Run on o2 network which is good coverage for me
[14:22] <diplo> Data tariff is unlimited
[14:23] <dwatkins> oimon: yeah, I decided to stick with the netbook and a couple USB-attached disks.
[14:23] <diplo> No issues for me apart from the big outtage they had a few months ago
[14:23] <Laney> is the tethering ban enforced?
[14:23] <diplo> Well, I'm not really sure, I've tetherred a few times
[14:23] <dogmatic69> this levelone NAS has a web ui like synology. It just looks like it was written in 1997.
[14:23] <diplo> and nowts been said, but I've also not done much either
[14:23] <JohnRobert> heh
[14:23] <directhex> o2 has wide coverage but diabolically bad data rates, afaik
[14:23] <dogmatic69> "minimum requirements, ie5.5"
[14:23] <JohnRobert> you know what really sucks
[14:23] <DJones> Laney: http://www.reghardware.com/2012/05/21/review_uk_carriers_network_vs_network/
[14:24] <JohnRobert> when your nas gets mashed up by lightening
[14:24] <JohnRobert> :(
[14:24] <JohnRobert> my 3tb hdd is ok
[14:24] <JohnRobert> but the nas bit got destroyed
[14:24] <JohnRobert> and now I'm on a mission to get the data off, but WD like to set up their hard disks funny
[14:24] <popey> you back in the uk now JohnRobert ?
[14:24] <dogmatic69> JohnRobert: no lightning protection?
[14:24] <JohnRobert> 3tb with GUID partition and raid is a pita to recover..
[14:24] <JohnRobert> no dogmatic69.
[14:24] <dogmatic69> :/
[14:24] <JohnRobert> yes popey, got back in feb.
[14:24] <popey> oh
[14:25] <JohnRobert> it rains all the time here
[14:25] <JohnRobert> :()
[14:25] <popey> hah
[14:25] <JohnRobert> still, I got aus citizenship just before I left
[14:25] <JohnRobert> just in case
[14:25] <JohnRobert> :p
[14:25] <directhex> JohnRobert, you can't do 3tb without GPT
[14:25] <JohnRobert> gpt
[14:25] <JohnRobert> that's what I meant
[14:25] <Laney> hmmmmm
[14:25] <JohnRobert> :p
[14:25] <JohnRobert> yeah, I discovered it wasn't going to work with my usb2 enclosure so I've ordered some sata cables..
[14:25] <DJones> Laney: That review/comparison has made me think that giffgaff wouldn't be too good for me because of the speed issue
[14:26] <JohnRobert> iirc the kernel was getting the c/h/s all wrong
[14:26] <Laney> DJones: yeah, i do like me 3g
[14:26] <JohnRobert> I mean I have some semi important data on there (all my photos)
[14:26] <Laney> i just gave them a tenner though, so let's have a go
[14:26] <diplo> Its funny that giffgaff / o2 differ
[14:26] <diplo> as they run on their network
[14:27] <DJones> Laney: Its worth trying anyway, will be interested to see how you get on with it
[14:27] <AlanBell> diplo: they don't differ beyond a margin of error in that graph
[14:27] <diplo> No but shouldn't it be exactly the same :)
[14:28] <diplo> and DJones I get fairly good speeds
[14:28] <AlanBell> no two runs of the test are exactly the same
[14:30] <AlanBell> not a very clueful review really (in terms of the speed part)
[14:36] <oimon> Laney, i just signed up with GG last month
[14:36] <Laney> oimon: happy?
[14:37] <oimon> efficient porting process and management of purchasing goodybags
[14:37] <Laney> ten squid is a fiver cheaper than i'm paying now
[14:37] <Laney> as long as they don't really enforce the tethering thing
[14:37] <oimon> i i moved from tmob to GG
[14:37] <oimon> £15-£10
[14:41] <dwatkins> I'm paying 13 quid a month for unlimited data (no tethering restriction) for a SIM-only deal with Three.
[14:41] <oimon> i might go to the £5 pm thing
[14:41] <oimon> internet only,
[14:42] <oimon> then get the missis to switch to GG and use sipdroid for everything else
[14:43] <oimon> t-mobile tried to suck me in by offering me £7.50pm deal after i'd requested PAC code
[14:43] <oimon> but their coverage sucks and tbh they should offer me such deals earlier
[14:44] <bigcalm> T-Mobile coverage also includes Orange coverage
[14:45] <gord> y'know what suddenly stopped sucking like a year or two ago? 3 coverage, that made me happy
[14:45] <diplo> T-Mobile/Orange around these here parts sucks most tremendously!
[14:45] <bigcalm> Guess I'm just lucky where I go :)
[14:46] <dwatkins> I'm in Edinburgh, where Three is pretty good all over. Probably is the case for most cities.
[14:46] <diplo> Sister just finished a 2 year contract, not been able to use her phone at her house/my house or my mums :D
[15:02] <SuperMatt> ok, so quick question
[15:03] <SuperMatt> where in ubuntu does it run lightdm at startup?
[15:08] <hamitron> heh, I just got an automated phone call from BT
[15:08] <hamitron> it said "I am afraid we are unable to speak with you right now"
[15:08] <hamitron> :/
[15:14] <directhex> hamitron, urgh! speculative robodialing is the worst
[15:14] <hamitron> kinda getting insane
[15:15] <hamitron> our business line is getting about 20 calls per day now
[15:15] <hamitron> some people here are starting to swear at them because it breaks them off from work
[15:15] <hamitron> haha
[15:42] <DJones> hamitron: 99 times out fo 100, you can never find out who's calling either, so you can't complain, pressing "5" to confirm you're not interested doesn't work, pressing "1" to speak to somebody about your claim doesn't work because they just hang up when you say you want to be removed from their database
[15:42] <popey> there was a thing about this on watchdog the other day
[15:43] <popey> they secret filmed a company just ripping pages out of the phone book and going through them
[15:43] <popey> they flat out don't care
[15:43] <bigcalm> If Thunderbird is reaching EOL, what's the desktop email client of choice?
[15:43] <dwatkins> I thought it was just being handed over to the community
[15:43] <bigcalm> Oh?
[15:44] <bigcalm> Ok
[15:44] <dwatkins> back later, that's what I thought I'd read though :)
[15:44] <bigcalm> Is there a better client than Thunderbird that handles multiple IMAP accounts sensibly?
[15:44] <gord> wish i could just use gmail
[15:44] <bigcalm> I guess TB will be supported for the next 5 years anyway
[15:45] <bigcalm> gord: I used to, but got fed up with all of the tabs
[15:45] <popey> gord, you can can't you?
[15:45] <popey> speak of the devil
[15:45] <gord> for canonimail?
[15:45]  * popey points bigcalm at chalcedony 
[15:45] <popey> yes gord
[15:45] <bigcalm> o.O
 I guess TB will be supported for the next 5 years anyway
[15:45] <popey> ^^ chrisccoulson
[15:45] <bigcalm> Heh
[15:45] <brobostigon> thank you popey.
[15:45] <bigcalm> Well, TB is in 12.04 LTS
[15:46] <popey> i can see their point
[15:46] <popey> what development does an email client _need_ ?
[15:46] <bigcalm> It does what I need it to do, just want it to keep on doing it :)
[15:46] <gord> popey: nope, no gmail :(
[16:09] <brobostigon> popey: tht video shows perfectly, how a system should be, and how haiku has developed far beyond that, it impresses me, that that was possible like that. and still is.
[16:10] <popey> yeah, tis interesting to see how well it worked under that set of tasks
[16:11] <brobostigon> no system, i have came across since, can behave that way.
[16:11] <brobostigon> on equal hw.
[16:13] <brobostigon> this is why, i will always keep my BeBOX, as the hw this was designed for. and is tota;;y orignal.
[16:14] <brobostigon> this is my reason, i will support the haiku effort. that video being perfect reasoning.
[16:16] <brobostigon> debian simply cant do this on that equal hw, for example.
[16:23] <popey> brobostigon, you actually have a bebox/
[16:23] <popey> ?
[16:23] <brobostigon> popey: i do, yes.
[16:24] <brobostigon> it is my pride and joy,
[16:25] <brobostigon> i am very protective of it.
[16:27] <popey> heh
[16:27] <popey> does it work?
[16:27] <brobostigon> yes.
[16:28] <brobostigon> i havent actually fired it up, in three years.
[16:33] <popey> anyone here near preston?
[16:33]  * popey pokes schwuk 
[16:33] <popey> you're about the nearest aren't you?
[16:34] <schwuk> popey: I suppose
[16:34] <popey> how far is it from you? :)
[16:36] <schwuk> popey: 90-odd miles
[16:36] <popey> oh blimey, thats still quite a way
[16:36] <popey> hmmm
[16:36]  * popey suspects gmb might be closer
[16:36]  * popey tickles gmb
[16:37] <gmb> WUT?
[16:37] <gmb> Yes
[16:37] <gmb> I am.
[16:37] <gmb> Near Preston.
[16:37] <popey> how far you to preston man?
[16:37] <popey> +english
[16:37] <gmb> 25 miles or so.
[16:37] <popey> oooh
[16:37] <gmb> Wherefore, squire?
[16:37] <popey> I may have a MASSIVE favour I need to ask you for :)
[16:37] <gmb> Shoot
[16:38] <popey> I am watching an ebay action for something about the size of a microwave oven, but not a microwave oven
[16:38] <popey> dunno if I'll win it
[16:38] <popey> but it's collection only
[16:38] <gmb> "about the size of a microwave oven, but not a microwave oven" Mmmkay.
[16:38] <popey> :D
[16:38] <popey> and not drugs
[16:38] <gmb> popey, IC. So, when does the auction end.
[16:38] <popey> defo not drugs
[16:38] <gmb> ?
[16:38] <popey> sunday
[16:38] <popey> but dunno how long they'll keep hold, will ask
[16:39] <popey> need to then figure out if you're willing, how I'd get it from you :)
[16:39] <bigcalm> That makes me think it's a microwave full of drugs
[16:39] <popey> (no urgency, but it's delicate so posting is a bit of a no-no)
[16:39] <popey> it is _NOT_ a microwave full of drugs
[16:39] <brobostigon> the mistakes you make, as a 19 year old studant, with a NDA with Be.
[16:39] <bigcalm> Hehe
[16:39] <popey> it is the same size and weight as a microwave full of drugs though
[16:40] <gmb> popey, If you win it, I'll happily collect it... I haven't got any plans to come down your way for a while, though.
[16:40] <popey> np
[16:40] <popey> ta
[16:42] <bigcalm> It's a bobcat in a microwaveish box
[16:46] <brobostigon> the interesting question is, does said NDA still apply. with whoever owns Be's intellectual property?
[16:50] <brobostigon> in theory ACCESS CO., LTD.
[16:50] <brobostigon> in theory ACCESS CO., LTD. own the intellecual property rights,
[16:50] <brobostigon> but they arent doing anything,
[18:03] <ali1234> argh after i fixed that bug another old one came back
[18:10] <SuperEngineer> BBC News - Crowd-sourced funding site Kickstarter to launch in UK http://bbc.in/Ot7mDD
[18:11] <SuperEngineer> - I wonder if Barclays is there?  ;)
[18:19] <ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmm maybe i should refactor this code to use fixed point
[19:32] <SuperEngineer> I had a very nasty dream [nightmare] last night - Microsoft had bought Canonical
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> they haven't?
[19:33] <SuperEngineer> ..then I woke up & pondered about "difference" between "being bought by" & "selling out to"
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: i.e. are you sure it was a dream?
[19:33] <SuperEngineer> help me!
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: hm?
[19:33] <The_Fred> for the love of god make that be fake
[19:34] <SuperEngineer> I'm am unwilling visionary
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> most prophets are
[19:36] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ;)
[19:39] <daubers> Evening all
[19:41] <daubers> AlanBell: Unfortunatley can't make the BBQ thing. Other doodahs have got in the way :)
[19:41] <AlanBell> oh well, I will save you a sausage for next time we meet
[19:41] <Laney> ;)
[19:41] <daubers> Cool! If you do come down to RHS at any point in an evening, let me know and I'll meet you there
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> <no comment>
[19:42] <daubers> Have to admit I've let my Ubuntu stuff down a lot recently... become more and more involved in RHS and it's a bit all consuming when it starts
[19:43] <daubers> screw herding cats, herding hackers is a lot harder
[19:44] <AlanBell> you are not kidding
[19:44] <SuperEngineer> daubers: what's a screw herding cat?
[19:44] <SuperEngineer> a cat in an iron mongers?
[19:44] <daubers> SuperEngineer: Cats in a prison?
[19:44] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[19:45] <daubers> AlanBell: I've found that with hackspaces, like the militry, it doesn't matter sometimes if the decision is right, sometimes you just make the decision and go with it
[19:46] <daubers> Oh, and for some reason once you start doing that, if you stop, most other stuff stops too :(
[19:46] <daubers> Not enough momentum
[19:47] <AlanBell> yeah, momentum is good, as long as you are not going for a jog around beachy head
[19:47] <daubers> heh :)
[19:47] <daubers> Was it Leeds that did what SHH is proposing initially, then had to bail out and have now more or less got back on track?
[19:47] <daubers> I'm sure someone did it
[19:48] <AlanBell> dunno, SSH had a plan that if they hit all their targets and everything went perfectly would result in a 5.5k deficit
[19:49] <daubers> Ooof
[19:49] <daubers> Is that over 12 months?
[19:49] <AlanBell> so they set a 5.5k "donations target" and decided it would be OK to proceed because the numbers now balanced
[19:50] <AlanBell> actually they decided on the cheaper place that only needed a 3.5k donation target
[19:51] <daubers> RHS are quite lucky in that someone just threw down a lot of money to get the ball rolling, and we're now nearly self sufficient. Once we pass that there is an agreement that he can retrieve that initial input.
[19:51] <AlanBell> I think I managed to stop the momentum on that one by doing a slightly alarmed ragequit
[19:51] <AlanBell> yeah I think RHS was done with eyes open and a benefactor who was up for bankrolling it to a realistic extent
[19:53] <czajkowski> the one in ireland started off with montly meetings and everyone paying 20/30 quid for 6 months to get the deposit
[19:53] <czajkowski> then they got a a small place
[19:53] <czajkowski> only after 2 years there did they move to a much larger place
[19:54] <daubers> Reading will probably be looking for a bigger place towards the end of next year (or if we can find a nice fat gov. grant)
[19:57] <AlanBell> for doing pre-space donations like that the VAT handling has to be done very carefully
[19:58] <AlanBell> it looks a lot like fraud if you put vat on it, and a VAT scam if you don't
[20:03] <daubers> Someone shoulf write a "How to start/fund a hackspace" book
[20:03] <daubers> I keep meaning to buy a copy of Jono's book to see if it applies
[20:04] <Seeker`> daubers: Where in Reading is it?
[20:05] <daubers> Seeker`: It's in Woodley
[20:05] <daubers>  RG5 4SQ
[20:05] <daubers> Apparently it's full of people working on RepRaps at the moment
[20:06] <Seeker`> ah, k
[20:06] <Seeker`> I have relatives in Twyford
[20:06] <Seeker`> and Caversham
[20:06] <Seeker`> hence I know the area a bit :)
[20:06] <daubers> Ah :) Until about 2 months ago I lived in Tilehurst :)
[20:16]  * The_Fred reminices of uni days in reading
[20:50] <The_Fred> hey guys,i was wondering if searching for .desktop files would be a good way to find out which programs i have installed on ubuntu?
[20:54]  * bigcalm returns
[21:44] <dogmatic69> When using nfs do I need to mount the drives on startup?
[21:45] <dogmatic69> or does mount -t nfs server:/folder /local/folder do it permanently
[21:45] <hamitron> you can put them in fstab
[21:46] <hamitron> mount is just a one off mount command afaik
[21:46] <dogmatic69> hamitron: what if the server is not available on boot?
[21:46] <hamitron> not sure, mine always is
[21:46] <hamitron> ;)
[21:47] <dogmatic69> I have fiddled with fstab on aws and then deleted the mounted drive and the instance would not boot :/
[21:47] <dogmatic69> I think it was fstab
[21:47] <hamitron> http://linux.die.net/man/5/nfs
[21:47] <dogmatic69> The NAS *should* always be on, just dont want to be locked out if its down
[21:52] <hamitron> dogmatic69: if soft mount option ok?
[21:52] <hamitron> is*
[21:52] <dogmatic69> hmm
[21:53] <hamitron> or you could maybe make a separate script I suppose
[21:53] <dogmatic69> just read that section. Would rather opt for data integrity
[21:54] <hamitron> yeh, I was thinking the same
[21:54] <dogmatic69> I currently use a launcher script for shfs, I will just change the commands there
[21:54] <hamitron> yeh, sounds best
[21:54] <dogmatic69> Moving from shfs on the box to nfs on the nas anyway
[21:54] <hamitron> and make sure it won't halt booting if it fails
[21:54] <hamitron> :)
[21:55] <dogmatic69> when the server is not available boot is slow, well it hangs just after login
[21:55] <dogmatic69> with shfs that is
[21:56] <dogmatic69> also, what happens if you do mount server:/foo /something/that/exists
[21:57] <dogmatic69> does it kill the files off, or just fail to mount
[21:57] <hamitron> I'd guess fail to mount, but maybe worth trying
[21:58] <hamitron> could make the empty directory write only by root, then mount it in that?
[21:58] <hamitron> then unprivilaged stuff that may write to it, will not get access
[21:59] <dogmatic69> ye, I will test it out
[21:59] <dogmatic69> just broke nautalis
[21:59] <dogmatic69> :/
[21:59] <hamitron> plz let me know, or I will have to test
[21:59] <hamitron> haha
[21:59] <hamitron> I hate not been sure about simple things
[21:59] <hamitron> :/
[21:59] <dogmatic69> ye
[22:00] <dogmatic69> Happens all the time with php code I write. Not quite sure on something so end up having to write a whole bunch of test code to see what happens
[22:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Forthcoming CLS/OSCON Schedule - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/10/forthcoming-clsoscon-schedule/
[22:04] <dogmatic69> bah.
[22:05] <dogmatic69> nautilis is dead
[22:08] <dogmatic69> hmm, 'ls' in terminal does nothing
[22:09] <hamitron> dogmatic69: it has a "bg" option for fstab from reading
[22:09] <hamitron> so it retries re-mounts in the background, rather than seeming to hang
[22:10] <dogmatic69> oh nice
[22:11] <dogmatic69> just got to reboot quick. try fix the damn file browser
[22:12] <hamitron> anyone know what happens if your root filesystem is on an external drive, and you remove the drive?
[22:12] <hamitron> can you plug it back in, and not have problems?
[22:13] <hamitron> works on Windows 7, just wondering about ubuntu
[22:13] <hamitron> ;)
[22:23] <dogmatic69> hamitron: because windows is so slow to realise the drive was removed, you had it back in already :D
[22:24] <hamitron> haha
[22:24] <hamitron> well
[22:24] <hamitron> it just waits
[22:24] <hamitron> and doesn't do anything
[22:24] <hamitron> which is useful, when I unmount my main hdd
[22:24] <hamitron> haha
[22:25] <dogmatic69> hamitron: I will assume from the fact that live cd works, linux/ubuntu would be about the same
[22:25] <hamitron> use a driver that supports that for my sata ports, so can use the hdd caddy
[22:25] <dogmatic69> all the good bits are in ram, just dont try save anything
[22:26] <hamitron> me save my work? ;/
[22:26] <hamitron> loads more fun to have a power cut ;)
[22:59] <dogmatic69> man. cant ls again
[22:59] <dogmatic69> something with this nfs is messing things up
[23:21] <dogmatic69> Is there a way to unmount somehting that is "busy"
[23:23] <Darael> fuser it to find out what's using it, then kill the process?
[23:30] <dogmatic69> Darael: how do you "fuser" it?
[23:37] <ali1234> umount -l
[23:38] <ali1234> don't think it works on nfs though
[23:38] <ali1234> nfs is a beast
[23:38] <dogmatic69> \o/
[23:38] <ali1234> see also lsof
[23:38] <dogmatic69> ali1234: just found that on SO, and works
[23:38] <dogmatic69> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/40317/force-unmount-of-nfs-mounted-directory
[23:38] <ali1234> oh, it might *seem* like it works :)
[23:38] <ali1234> then bad stuff happens
[23:38] <ali1234> like you can't remount it
[23:39] <ali1234> nfs should be avoided when possible
[23:39] <dogmatic69> ye, tell me about it
[23:40] <dogmatic69> dont want to reboot... again
[23:40] <hamitron> ali1234: what would you use as a remote filesystem?
[23:40] <ali1234> i wouldn't
[23:40] <dogmatic69> SMB
[23:41] <dogmatic69> that seems ok
[23:41] <ali1234> i use syncing instead
[23:41] <hamitron> I've had more problems with samba than nfs tbh
[23:41] <dogmatic69> :/
[23:41] <dogmatic69> ali1234: syncing as in duplicate the files?
[23:41] <ali1234> yes
[23:42] <hamitron> but I haven't had problems with nfs since I "got it working"
[23:42] <dogmatic69> thats great, but does not work for 100's of GB
[23:43] <hamitron> what about sshfs?
[23:47] <dogmatic69> I have been using shfs for a while, not sure the nas I got can use it though
[23:48] <dogmatic69> where do I find smb via the terminal?
[23:49] <hamitron> what you mean find smb?
[23:49] <dogmatic69> well natilis has it as smb://cliffjumper/photos/
[23:49] <dogmatic69> smb://server/folder
[23:49] <hamitron> oh, it is a hidden directory in your home folder
[23:49] <hamitron> .g*fs I think
[23:50]  * hamitron has his in /mnt, by using fstab
[23:50] <dogmatic69> ah, .gvfs
[23:50] <dogmatic69> how do you do that?
[23:50] <hamitron> in fstab?
[23:51] <hamitron> you could use the mount command too
[23:51] <dogmatic69> how would that be? mount smb://foo bar or mount .gvfs/foo bar
[23:51] <dogmatic69> shfs does not work in this instance, no ssh
[23:52] <hamitron> mount -t cifs
[23:52] <hamitron> iirc
[23:52] <hamitron> you gotta pass it options too
[23:53] <hamitron> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/how-to-mount-remote-windows-partition-windows-share-under-linux.html
[23:53] <dogmatic69> :O
[23:53] <dogmatic69> you have to put the pw in the command
[23:53] <hamitron> yeh :/
[23:53] <dogmatic69> lame
[23:54] <dogmatic69> may as well just not use a pw then
[23:54] <hamitron> I'd assume there is a way around it
[23:54] <hamitron> well, you don't have to let people have access to the script
[23:54] <hamitron> :)
[23:55] <dogmatic69> ye, but if they did somehow
[23:55] <dogmatic69> ah, you can use a credentials file
[23:55] <dogmatic69> slightly better
[23:56] <dogmatic69> the issue in the cmd is that it will be in the logs too then