[12:24] <lucaci> hi everyone
[12:24] <lucaci> i have many question to do!!
[12:26] <lucaci> there's no one?
[12:26] <lucaci> oook
[12:27] <lucaci> i'll try later
[12:27] <lucaci> by
[12:27] <lucaci> bye
[12:27] <astraljava> lucaci: PLease, ask first.
[12:28] <astraljava> Please*, not many people are staring at the channel all the time.
[12:28] <lucaci> okok
[12:28] <lucaci> i think it
[12:28] <astraljava> You'll increase the chances of getting responses if you present the questions/problems, and hang around for a while (considerably longer than 3 minutes...)
[12:29] <lucaci> ooh okok
[12:29] <lucaci> thanck you
[12:31] <lucaci> my question is: i have a virtualization of ubuntu studio (the last version) on a 40" TV (it's a temporaney solution) and i see it very small!! i try with the resolution but nothing... i like to know if there'sa function like a zoom (like in windows tools)!??
[12:32] <lucaci> thanks to everyone!!
[12:32] <lucaci> :)
[13:38] <FM-Audio> hi i'm use lubuntu and i have installed ubuntu studio. When i start my pc, i can't switch between lubuntu and studio. this is due to the grub?
[13:41] <sunz> FM-Audio, probably yes, are you sure you installed ubuntustudio in a separate partition?
[14:04] <FM-Audio> i think so
[14:48] <FM-Audio> sunz are you there?
[14:51] <sunz> im at work right now, and only can peek here from time to time
[14:51] <FM-Audio> where do you come from?
[14:55] <sunz> how is my location related to your booting problem?
[15:05] <cfhowlett> ?
[15:17] <jussi> cfhowlett: try holding shift at boot
[15:17] <jussi> err
[15:17] <jussi> he left...
[15:19] <tyche> Here's a question.  With previous versions of Ubuntu (and still happens with Debian Wheezy), if you got kernel updates an icon would show up telling you that you needed to restart (at your convenience, of course).  With this new-fangled version of Ubuntu (actually Ubuntu Studio 12.04) I don't see that.  Are we, then, supposed to do a manual version of a Windows update, and just 'automatically' restart after every update of any kind?
[15:20] <holstein> you shouldnt have an update
[15:20] <holstein> its the lowlatnecy kernel.. has there been an update?
[15:21] <holstein> XFCE might not have that same "notifier" or whwatever
[15:22] <holstein> i would argue that in install of ubuntustudio shouldnt be upgraded anyways
[15:22] <holstein> i have 10.04 LTS running with KXstudio ppa's added.. i have not updated in over a year... and i wont til i test that on my other machine
[15:23] <holstein> tyche: i would go to the xubuntu or XFCE communities and see if there is an answer to that, and see if you can help provide one if you like
[15:23] <holstein> i personally dont "miss" anything
[15:24] <holstein> if i upgrade the kernel, and want to run that upgraded kernel, i reboot... if i dont want to, or have time to reboot, i wait
[15:25] <tyche> I would, but I'm not running the XFCE version.  I went with the GNOME Classic.  I got tired of hunting through 4 different places for ways to do what I needed, only to find that it wasn't available.
[15:25] <tyche> I'm not worried about low-latency as much as I am about usability in general.
[15:26] <holstein> tyche: not sure who is developing notifications for "gnome-classic"
[15:27] <tyche> Hmm.  Maybe I'll pester the Ubuntu forums, then.  Or see if I can find someone like nhandler, that might know.
[15:27] <tyche> Thanks, though.
[15:30] <Unit193> I get the nagging thing that tells me about the need to reboot in Xubuntu (unless I kill the program, which I do all the time)
[15:31] <Unit193> Just make sure update-notifier is running.
[15:32] <holstein> tyche: you might want to try ubuntustudio and see how you like it
[15:32] <holstein> or xubuntu
[15:32] <tyche> I'll have to check that.  and holstein, I'm ON Ubuntu Studio, right now.  I just switched from Debian Wheezy when I found out how to FINALLY get Pulse Audio to work.
[15:33] <holstein> tyche: if you are using gnome-classic, you are *not* on ubuntustudio
[15:33] <cfhowlett> tyche, not on 12.04 Ustudio - no gnome-classic
[15:33] <holstein> im not saying you cant use ubuntustudio with whatever DE you choose, im just saying, if something is not working properly, you are not using the DE we support
[15:34] <holstein> AFAIK, no one supports gnome-classic.. which is the issue with using it... i would not expect to see it going forward much longer
[15:35] <holstein> i feel like for me, and for ubuntstudio's purposes, XFCE is a more than adequate replacement for the old gnome2 set up, without being drastically different in look/feel
[15:35] <tyche> That's a shame, because I won't use something that looks like a restricted version of a Windows tablet, and XFCE is way to restricted.
[15:35] <holstein> you can always check this out with our ubuntustudio live CD, or the xubuntu live CD
[15:36] <holstein> tyche: i think you are thinking of something else... XFCE is quite like gnome2... nearly identical in look/feel, and GTK
[15:36] <tyche> What is on my system right now was installed from the Ubuntu Studio 12.04 LiveCD, and has been added to.
[15:36] <holstein> tyche: then you should have XFCE on there if you'd like to try and use it for a bit... see if it works for you
[15:36] <tyche> holstein: Sorry, but I don't agree.  I tried it before I did anything.
[15:37] <holstein> tyche: i understand, but it is nearly exactly like gnome2
[15:37] <holstein> i argue that its more like gnome2 than gnome-classic or gnome3
[15:38] <holstein> i really feel like you are commenting on unity... when you say "tablet"
[15:38] <tyche> Gnome 3 is a waste of time.  I've tried it, too.  You'd be amazed at how much research I go through when I look at new distributions.  And yes, Unity is basically a failed Windows tablet.
[15:38] <holstein> i feel the pain, and i miss gnome2 as much as the next guy... but ubuntu is doing what it has always done... supply the latest version of gnome
[15:39] <Unit193> Though, I don't like gnome* but I rather like Xfce, wouldn't say "tablet" though.
[15:39] <holstein> nah... XFCE *is* the old school desktop look/feel
[15:40] <tyche> With XFCE, I had no way to get reports on what my computer's temperature was doing, no way to monitor internet input/output, and no way to see how active my hard drive or CPU were.  And that's just for starters.
[15:40] <holstein> tyche: you can use *all* of the old favorites from gnome, all the GTK stuff.. thats another reason why we chose it as a team
[15:41] <holstein> tyche: all the old gnome stuff that is going to stay around and be maintained will "just work"
[15:44] <tyche> Well, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.  Your tastes and mine are different.  Likewise needs.  I've run various versions of XFCE over the course of the last 4 years or so, and find it too difficult to customize to my taste.  The advantages of having 'playground' drives is that I can do things like that, and still have an operational 'every day' installation.  Then switch when I find something that at least approaches what I'm
[15:44] <tyche> looking for.
[15:44] <Unit193> !info xfce4-sensors-plugin
[15:44] <holstein> im not saying you need to like XFCE
[15:44] <holstein> if you are saying to me "gnome-classic is not giving me a notification that i am accustomed to" i am saying, you should expect breakage with that environment
[15:45] <holstein> its being phased out, and in my (and many other users) opinion, XFCE is scratching that itch of "where did gnome2 go"
[15:45] <holstein> i have issues with XFCE.. i had issues with gnome2... i dont use either now personally, but i support XFCE in ubuntustudio
[15:46] <holstein> my tastes are for openbox, but that is not appropriate for ubuntustudio.. we wanted something with longevity, and support that "felt" as much like gnome2 as possible
[15:48] <holstein> tyche: its just interesting, this opinion.. i find XFCE very similar in the level and methods to customize (in comparison to gnome2)
[15:50] <holstein> just looking at the panel configuration from gnome2 vs gnome3, or gnome2 vs XFCE.. i think the work flow in XFCE is much more like gnome2
[15:52] <tyche> You know?  I think I'm beginning to understand our basic differences (and no, this is not being derogatory - except maybe of myself).  I've used terminal (or terminal emulator) since way back in the 90's when I was running UNIX System V, Revision 4 on a Sparc Workstation 1+ at work.  I've never felt comfortable with it, though.  Admittedly, if I were something other than a perpetual n00bie, I could probably get comfortable with XFCE.  I'm not.
[15:53] <holstein> tyche: im not commenting on your personal level when i suggest XFCE.. i just dont see anything more gnome2 like... i would expect to see gnome-classic gone soon, and support will be a lot like what you are experiencing
[15:54] <holstein> the xubuntu team is actually quite small, and hard working, if you wanted to get envolved and help make it what you need, im sure your skills would be appreciated
[15:54] <tyche> I'm not a programmer.  I'm a retired CAD Draftsman.
[15:55] <holstein> still.. its a very welcoming community, which was another reason for ubuntustudio choosing XFCE.. the xubuntu team!
[15:56] <tyche> I'm also not sure that I want to get that deeply involved in Ubuntu again, after previous experience.
[15:57] <holstein> enjoy gnome-classic while its still there then.. im glad to hear that it is working for you
[15:59] <holstein> also, xubuntu is ubuntu, but it really has its own community and support team
[16:00] <holstein> you can also go upstream and work with the XFCE team if you want... that would make xubuntu and ubuntustudio more like what you want, and you wont be in the ubuntu community and all
[16:03] <FM-Audio> hi i have installed ubuntustudio via dvd, when i make restart after installation my pc doesnt boot
[16:05] <FM-Audio> i see after the bios screen a white cursor who flashs
[16:05] <cfhowlett> FM-Audio, did you reset your bios to boot from the HDD?
[16:05] <FM-Audio> no
[16:05] <cfhowlett> FM-Audio, then it's looking for the dvd
[16:06] <FM-Audio> what shoud i make?
[16:06] <cfhowlett> FM-Audio, reboot, set the hdd to be the first boot location - probably just set your bios back to defaults.
[16:07] <FM-Audio> ok first booting from hdd second from dvd
[16:07] <FM-Audio> ...nothing i see only one white cursor
[16:08] <cfhowlett> could be that the installation did not complete?
[16:08] <FM-Audio> i dont think so, he says installation complete
[16:09] <FM-Audio> i will put the dvd on drive
[16:10] <cfhowlett> FM-Audio, fyi: in future put the ISO on a USB - easier to deal with.  that said, I assume you checksumed the iso to ensure you got a good download?
[16:11] <FM-Audio> ok i will try the installation via usb
[16:12] <cfhowlett> good luck.
[16:12] <FM-Audio> thanks =)
[19:35] <Jonny1> Hi. I'm a bit confused about Jack and Pulseaudio. I understand Jack has lower latency but I dont understand why Pulseaudio is necessary at all. Also UbuntuStudio comes with a bridge between Jack and Pulseaudio but I am confused as to why. I have installed Mixx and the manual recommends using pasuspender to stop pulseaudio. I'm really confused. Can someone shed some light please?
[19:38] <Submarine> jack has low latency, it is for applications such as realtime audio processing, soft synths and so on
[19:38] <Submarine> pulseaudio is more like for desktop multimedia
[19:38] <Submarine> pulseaudio must be stopped before jack can run
[19:39] <ailo> Not true
[19:39] <ailo> Depends on if you use the same device
[19:39] <Submarine> well, of course, only  if you use the same device
[19:39] <ailo> Also, with the PA bridge, PA is running, but not grabbing your cards
[19:39] <ailo> Jonny1: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/ProAudioIntro/1204
[19:46] <Jonny1> ailo: I already read that but Im still confused. Why not remove pulseaudio altogether?
[19:47] <Jonny1> And where does alsa fit into all this?
[19:49] <ailo> Jonny1: As Submarine said, PA is a desktop audio system. Jack is not
[19:50] <ailo> You can't get Flash to play directly to jack, as is
[19:50] <Submarine> Jonny1, Alsa contains kernel-level device drivers.
[19:51] <ailo> Jonny1: Ubuntu Studio is not only for audio enthusiasts. Not everyone will use audio applications at all.
[19:51] <Jonny1> ailo: So Flash can only use pulseaudio? What about Rhythmbox? Can that use Jack?
[19:52] <ailo> Jonny1: Only if Rhythmbox has support for it. Many multimedia apps do, either directly, or with an installable addon
[19:52] <Jonny1> Can applications talk directly to Alsa?
[19:53] <ailo> Alsa used to be used for Desktop audio in the past
[19:53] <ailo> But that wouldn't change anything. Would just replace PA desktop audio with Alsa desktop audio, and you'd still not be able to use jack with everything
[19:54] <Jonny1> Does Jack replace Alsa or talk to Alsa?
[19:54] <ailo> Jack uses alsa drivers, if you set it to do so
[19:54] <Jonny1> It seems like everything can use everything else if you set it so
[19:54] <ailo> But it is a system of its own, and for applications to be able to connect to jack, they need jack code
[19:55] <ailo> Not if you set it to. If there's code that supports it
[20:01] <Jonny1> It seems like you could inadvertently have Application > PulseAudio > Jack > Alsa > Hardware. That seems like a lot of steps. What would be the minimum?
[20:02] <ailo> Jonny1: There are two sides of Alsa - the server side, and the driver side. Currently, Alsa is not serving, just being used as drivers for audio devices
[20:03] <ailo> So, the chain would either be: PA - > Hardware(alsa), Jack -> Hardware(alsa/firewire) or PA -> Jack -> Hardware(alsa)
[20:03] <ailo> Well, always (alsa/firewire) with jack of course
[20:04] <ailo> When PA is bridged with jack, it works surprisingly well, but to get really low latencies, it's better to disable it
[20:05] <Jonny1> Do you always need Alsa?
[20:05] <ailo> You need drivers to the audio devices. That is what alsa gives you, for PCI and USB
[20:06] <Jonny1> But some applications can talk directly to Alsa If I understand correctly, App > Alsa server > Alsa hardware driver > Hardware  ? Is that right?
[20:07] <ailo> Yes. Not sure if that ever happens currently. Have not investigated that at all.
[20:07] <Jonny1> Or you can have App > Jack > Alsa hardware driver > Hardware
[20:09] <ailo> Just tried using an alsa app. Works fine if you suspend PA
[20:09] <Jonny1> If you are using Jack but also an app that doesnt support jack then you need App > Pulseaudio > Jack >  Alsa > Hardware ??
[20:09] <ailo> Yes, but Alsa in that context is not like PA or JAck
[20:09] <ailo> Just Hardware
[20:10] <Jonny1> How do you know if an app uses Alsa or Pulseaudio?
[20:11] <Jonny1> I understand Flash cant work with Jack so that would need to go through the PA - Jack bridge? Is that right?
[20:11] <ailo> Jonny1: If you only have on device, and PA is running, and you hear sound, only PA is used
[20:11] <ailo> one*
[20:11] <ailo> If you have two devices, you can run alsa on one, and PA on the other
[20:11] <ailo> With three devices, you can do 1. Alsa, 2. PA, 3. Jack
[20:12] <ailo> All of them use alsa drivers
[20:13] <Jonny1> I have two devices and I am setting up Mixx. At the moment, the audio just seems to get to the hardware but I dont know how its getting there, whether its using Jack, Alsa, Pulseaudio or any combination. I understand for low latency I need to use Jack and the documentation talks about PAsuspender to suspend pulseaudio but I havent done that yet.
[20:13] <Jonny1> However the sound is working
[20:14] <Jonny1> But it might have high latency
[20:15] <ailo> Let me have a look at Mixxx
[20:16] <Jonny1> Presumably if I remove Pulseaudio then Flash would not be able to get any sound out at all. So presumably I should leave Pulseaudio installed. I guess if I suspend PA with PAsuspender then if I ran flash I wouldnt hear any sound. Am I on the right lines? Sorry if I am being a bit dense
[20:20] <ailo> Jonny1: mixxx only supports the alsa and the jack audio servers
[20:21] <ailo> Jonny1: If you don't start jack before mixxx, it will use alsa
[20:22] <ailo> (mixxx also supports OSS, which is another sound system, but never mind that)
[20:22] <Jonny1> ailo: I was just about to ask that. But the manual does recommend suspending pulseaudio. Why bother if Mixx is using alsa anyway?
[20:23] <ailo> Jonny1: If you set alsa to use another device, than what PA is using, I don't think there should be any problems
[20:24] <ailo> I mean, mixxx, not alsa
[20:24] <ailo> If you set mixxx to use alsa -> 2nd device, and PA is using 1st device, I think it should be fine
[20:24] <ailo> You can even set it to use the same device as PA, but that might give you problems
[20:25] <ailo> And in that situation, pasuspend is a good option
[20:25] <ailo> Jonny1: For low latency, I would just use jack
[20:25] <Jonny1> The complication is that I am using one device for headphones and the other for speakers. Of course, I dont want system sounds like alert sounds coming out over the speakers. Would PAsuspend prevent that too or would the system just use alsa then?
[20:26] <ailo> To do that, start qjackctl. Set the device you want to use in setup (the order changes at each boot), push start, and then start Mixxx
[20:26] <Jonny1> So then the next thing I will need to do (probably another session) is get jack working with my usb sound module
[20:27] <Jonny1> !!!!!
[20:27] <Jonny1> But when its all working it will be good.
[20:27] <ailo> Jonny1: Using two devices at the same time won't be possible though
[20:28] <Jonny1> ailo: Oh, I see. Jack can only use one device?
[20:28] <Jonny1> So if I need to use two devices, I have to use Alsa?
[20:28] <ailo> Jonny1: Most systems are built that way. You need to have more channels on the device you want to use
[20:29] <ailo> Jonny1: I suspect you will get problems with clicks
[20:29] <Jonny1> It has 5.1 channels which would be plenty but unfortunately I can only access the first two channels
[20:29] <ailo> Jonny1: With jack you can access them all
[20:30] <ailo> Hmm, maybe not. usb you said?
[20:30] <ailo> They should show up in the alsa configuration for mixxx as well
[20:30] <Jonny1> If I can only get jack to work with the usb module
[20:32] <ailo> Jonny1: Start up jack with it and see what happens. When you use mixxx with jack, mixxx will have all the outputs you need, but you need to connect those outputs to your device using qjackctl -> Connect
[20:32] <ailo> If your device is working correctly, you should see all its' outputs there
[20:33] <ailo> Jonny1: You'll need to get comfortable with how qjackctl works, and perhaps make a Patchbay profile
[20:33] <ailo> To make one easily, you first connect things the way you want, then go to "Patchbay", and push "new". You'll get an option to base a profile on the connections you just made.
[20:34] <ailo> Then you keep that profile active, and connections will be automatic each time you start it up again
[20:35] <ailo> Jonny1: To improve performance, I would advise to remove the PA bridge. To do that, just uninstall: pulseaudio-module-jack
[20:35] <ailo> Also, if you don't need D-bus with jack, disable it in qjackctl settings
[20:37] <ailo> You'll need to restart PA for changes to take effect of course
[20:54] <Jonny1> ailo: Thanks for all your help. I will try your suggestions.
[23:06] <raven> hi
[23:06] <len-dt> raven, hi...
[23:07] <raven> suddenly i am not able to access my rme digi9652 pci any more. it is shown for example in the jack configs but rmedigicontrol says me no device and audacity and jack are not able to start recording from it
[23:08] <len-dt> Have you made any changes?
[23:08] <raven> nothing what take any effect any more
[23:08] <len-dt> have you rebooted?
[23:08] <raven> i did experiments with virtualbox, other users
[23:08] <raven> on the same host
[23:09] <raven> but nothing what should have take effekt on the settings permanent
[23:09] <len-dt> do you have more than one sound card?
[23:10] <raven> yes
[23:11] <ailo> raven: Did you check in the setup for jack? The devices may boot at different order each time
[23:14] <ailo> raven: Another way to start jack with the device is use the name instead of the order
[23:14] <ailo> raven: My device is called M66, so instead of hw:1, I use hw:M66
[23:14] <ailo> raven: You can see which name your device has by doing: cat /proc/asound/cards
[23:14] <raven> ailo the other soundcards should have no effect to jack because i use them only with pulse and alsa itself and not with jack
[23:15] <len-dt> All devices go though alsa
[23:15] <ailo> raven: I'm still talking about jack settings
[23:15] <ailo> raven: You should check that the right device is chosen
[23:15] <ailo> raven: Every time you boot, the order may change
[23:15] <ailo> raven: So, if your device was hw:1 the last time, it may now be hw:0
[23:16] <raven> ok but what to do? i have a default for jack production and i have a different default soundcard for mixxx for example
[23:16] <ailo> raven: You use qjackctl?
[23:17] <ailo> How do you start jack?
[23:17] <raven> i tried gladish and qjackctl to start it+
[23:18] <ailo> raven: With qjackctl, go into "Setup", and look which device is chosen in "Interface"
[23:20] <raven> ailo its always hw0,0 -> rme digi
[23:20] <ailo> raven: What I was trying to explain, is that hw:0 is not always the same device
[23:20] <ailo> But you are sure hw:0 is RME now?
[23:21] <raven> yes
[23:22] <raven> some other cards sometimes change but since my last reinstall rme is always hw0
[23:23] <ailo> Well, there's no rule that it will stay so.
[23:23] <ailo> raven: Could you post the output from jack, when you try to start it?
[23:23] <raven> not directly its on another machine just a momnent
[23:27] <raven> http://pastebin.com/k9sFrBeZ
[23:30] <ailo> raven: I'm just asking to be sure. You are absolutely sure hw:0 is the RME device?
[23:31] <raven> yes i am
[23:31] <ailo> raven: Did you have jack running at all during this session?
[23:32] <raven> no at morning it worked last time and i rebooted several times until
[23:34] <ailo> raven: You could try disabling dbus, and perhaps even try with jackd1 (by installing that instead)
[23:34] <ailo> After disabling dbus you will need to restart qjackctl
[23:34] <raven> disable that with service?
[23:34] <ailo> raven: It's in qjackctl settings
[23:34] <ailo> "misc"
[23:35] <ailo> "Enable D-Bus interface"
[23:37] <raven> canot initialize driver
[23:37] <raven> failed with -1
[23:38] <ailo> raven: I reacted only the the part where it said jack is starting in non-realtime mode
[23:38] <ailo> Are you not using the realtime option?
[23:38] <raven> i tried both
[23:38] <ailo> Did you install Ubuntu Studio, or are you using regular Ubuntu?
[23:39] <raven> studio
[23:39] <ailo> raven: I know now what the problem is
[23:40] <ailo> You have for some reason set PA to use the RME card
[23:40] <raven> what is pa?
[23:40] <ailo> pulseaudio
[23:41] <raven> no as i said its displayed there but i disabled it
[23:41] <ailo> I'm not on Ubuntu Studio now, so I can't look at the interface, but I get the same error message when I try to start jack while PA is using that card
[23:43] <ailo> If I had a alsa program use the device, jack would tell me about it
[23:44] <ailo> raven: Well, you can compare if you like http://paste.ubuntu.com/1085408/
[23:46] <ailo> raven: This is when using dbus http://paste.ubuntu.com/1085410/
[23:49] <ailo> raven: I need to kill both jackdbus and PA to get things working again
[23:50] <ailo> This is when using dbus