| alazare619 | anyone here build ubuntu/xubuntu from scratch | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| ochosi | do i look like a buildbot? :) | 00:10 |
| astraljava | This channel is filled with various bots. | 00:10 |
| astraljava | Just sayin'... | 00:10 |
| ochosi | haha | 00:11 |
| Unit193 | He'll call anyone a bot. | 00:11 |
| alazare619 | looking for someone that has built it from scratch with the livecd-rootfs tools i can build the chroot no problem its building the iso is where i have an issue | 00:13 |
| === hobgoblin is now known as elfy | ||
| ochosi | morning everyone | 08:06 |
| astraljava | o/ | 08:07 |
| elfy | morning | 08:09 |
| astraljava | Meetings wikipage is not updated. Shouldn't we have the next one tomorrow, or am I out of my mind even worse than usual? | 08:59 |
| ochosi | astraljava: i think you're right | 09:06 |
| ochosi | knome: what about tomorrow's meeting? | 09:07 |
| ochosi | astraljava: (i updated the agenda with new items though) | 09:07 |
| mr_pouit | https://launchpad.net/~degeneracypressure/+archive/abiword | 09:23 |
| mr_pouit | the ppa description is interesting | 09:23 |
| ochosi | nice | 09:23 |
| mr_pouit | astraljava: x and y coordinates come from xrandr, iirc there's no left/right/above/below notion | 09:26 |
| astraljava | ochosi: Oh, right. I suppose it's because that last meeting wasn't held, IIRC. | 09:28 |
| ochosi | astraljava: yes | 09:29 |
| astraljava | mr_pouit: Yeah, that's what I figured. So for me to add the functionality of those, I need to calculate the correct x and y coordinates for both outputs. | 09:31 |
| ochosi | but it's not so hard, i mean "right of screen1" just means you have to add the x-resolution of screen1 as starting-value for screen2 | 09:34 |
| ochosi | i have this stored in xfconf like that at work so that i get my two screens set up correctly | 09:34 |
| mr_pouit | same here (unsurprisingly :p) | 09:35 |
| astraljava | ochosi: No, like I said, it's not that hard. | 09:35 |
| mr_pouit | it's ugly to manage more than 2 screens with comboboxes though | 09:36 |
| astraljava | Just it has to have all the options covered; changing the other display as primary -> swap (recalculate if not identical) coordinates etc. | 09:36 |
| ochosi | mr_pouit: but it's a rare use-case. if it works for most users, it's already an improvement | 09:37 |
| astraljava | mr_pouit: Yeah, I suppose I'll add support for two screens at first. :) | 09:37 |
| astraljava | I don't know what'd be the best way to provide support for multiple, to be honest. | 09:37 |
| ochosi | ppl who have such a rare-usecase can fiddle with xfconf :) | 09:38 |
| astraljava | Heheh. | 09:39 |
| ochosi | as long as we provide basic support for two screens, which is a really typical scenario these days, i'm happy | 09:40 |
| astraljava | I'll see if I can make progress with it tonight. | 09:40 |
| ochosi | great | 09:44 |
| astraljava | Wiki page updated, reminder posted. | 09:46 |
| ochosi | fiddling with glade xml in a text-editor is just _fun_ | 09:48 |
| astraljava | Oh yeah, about the glade template, the "Use this output" was not a checkbox anymore, I wondered about that, but I suppose that's how it's wanted these days. I made the mirror thing as one, though. | 09:52 |
| ochosi | wait, what abou tthe use-this-output checkbox? | 09:53 |
| astraljava | It seemed to be a button instead of a checkbox these days. | 09:54 |
| ochosi | a toggle-button? | 09:54 |
| astraljava | Might have been, yeah. | 09:54 |
| ochosi | and where did you see that? | 09:54 |
| astraljava | In glade, in the quantal sources. | 09:55 |
| ochosi | in the glade file of ubuntu's dialog you mean? | 09:55 |
| astraljava | Yeah. | 09:55 |
| ochosi | k | 09:55 |
| astraljava | Err... Ubuntu dialog? I mean, I apt-get sourced xfce4-settings, which is the source package that holds the display-dialogs. | 09:56 |
| ochosi | a-ha | 09:56 |
| ochosi | i didn't realize there were changes to it | 09:56 |
| ochosi | well ok, in that case keep it as a toggle | 09:56 |
| astraljava | Right. Yeah wasn't gonna change that, but would you like the mirror thingie as such, too? | 09:57 |
| astraljava | To keep it consitent? | 09:57 |
| astraljava | consistent* | 09:57 |
| ochosi | i guess yes | 09:57 |
| astraljava | Ok. | 09:57 |
| ochosi | as soon as it's ported to gtk3 there will be the gtkswitch widget anyway.. | 09:57 |
| astraljava | Yeah ok. | 09:58 |
| ochosi | gah, parole seems to be a can of worms :( | 10:12 |
| ochosi | while i can fix the main interface, that seems to screw up the fullscreen-interface, oh how i hate you glade! | 10:13 |
| astraljava | Not a big fan of it either. | 10:28 |
| ochosi | shit, parole's code is really scattered all over the place | 10:29 |
| ochosi | now i see why nobody wanted to touch it | 10:29 |
| * astraljava doesn't even recall it, maybe it is really off-putting... | 10:39 | |
| astraljava | ;) | 10:39 |
| ochosi | well it's unexpectedly difficult to just play with the UI | 10:41 |
| ochosi | ok, finally managed to make parole look better | 11:24 |
| ochosi | http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-07102012-013038pm.php | 11:30 |
| ochosi | apart from the stupid statusbar it's pretty close to as it should be | 11:31 |
| elfy | that does look better - will mine have free toast? | 11:31 |
| ochosi | maybe, you'll have to try to find out :) | 11:32 |
| elfy | :) | 11:32 |
| ochosi | if only i could move the stupid playtime stuff from the statusbar to the control-bar | 11:32 |
| ochosi | but i think that might turn out too difficult for me | 11:33 |
| astraljava | mr_pouit: micahg: What your opinion re: bug #1019621? Could we get this done? The abiword maintainer over at the Debian-side weighed in on the matter in the comments. | 11:40 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1019621 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Precise abiword version needs to be reverted to stable release prior to 12.04.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019621 | 11:40 |
| mr_pouit | (msevior is an upstream abiword developer afaik) | 11:48 |
| astraljava | Oh ok, sorry, I think he himself used maintainer in the comment, so made a wrong link in mind. | 11:50 |
| knome | ochosi, astralkava: yes, the next meeting should be tomorrow. sorry for not updating the page | 12:05 |
| knome | astraljava, btw, it's 11th tomorrow. | 12:05 |
| astraljava | grr... | 12:05 |
| knome | astraljava, well, i fixed the wikipage and sent a fixing email | 12:06 |
| astraljava | Ahh... you updated it, thanks. | 12:06 |
| mr_pouit | astraljava: yeah, I'm for the revert (micahg disagrees though). But staying in sync with Debian is also less work from us. :P I've replied to the bug report anyway. | 12:12 |
| astraljava | mr_pouit: Thanks. What is the entity that calls the shots on this? | 12:16 |
| mr_pouit | the sru team (and the release team) | 12:20 |
| mr_pouit | however, I don't think this is feasible (nor reasonable) to revert with a SRU | 12:20 |
| astraljava | Yeah. I suppose it's more valuable to spend time in actually fixing the bugs. | 12:21 |
| Unit193 | Meeting for tomorrow isn't on either calendar... | 12:31 |
| astraljava | Does the calendar support reoccurance? | 12:33 |
| knome | Unit193, the calendars are still WIP. | 12:33 |
| astraljava | ...or whatever the correct term is... | 12:33 |
| knome | Unit193, no-one said "start following this and you'll get all updates" | 12:34 |
| Unit193 | No, but I'm saying it now in case you didn't know. | 12:34 |
| knome | i knew. | 12:43 |
| knome | well yes and no. basically, i'm not counting on the calendar. yet. | 12:44 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: the whole abiword thing is a mess, do you have any idea if the new snapshot is ABI compatible with 2.9.2? additionally, I'm concerned as you mentioned in the bug report about "upgrades" from 2.9.2 to 2.8.6 | 13:47 |
| mr_pouit | micahg: and 2.9.x uses gtk3 whereas 2.8.x gtk2, so messy++ (as much as I'd like to revert, I fear things will get worse) | 13:58 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: right, so I think our best shot is an SRU if it's ABI compatible | 14:01 |
| === hobgoblin is now known as elfy | ||
| pleia2 | moo.com is having a 30% off everything summer sale, in case anyone else wants to order the spiffy xubuntu stickers | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | (as their sales go, this is a pretty good one) | 19:00 |
| ochosi | pleia2: thanks a lot for the stickers!! | 19:01 |
| ochosi | pleia2: arrived today and my flatmate loved it :) | 19:01 |
| genii-around | Hm. Only us.moo.com, no ca.moo.com | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | ochosi: welcome :) I fear I may have forgotten to include the UW ones | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | genii-around: they're a uk company, but they ship internationally | 19:02 |
| genii-around | pleia2: Ah, OK | 19:03 |
| ochosi | pleia2: true, but no biggy | 19:14 |
| micahg | pleia2: holy cow! | 19:18 |
| astraljava | Yeah, I concur. To forget the UW ones?! Come... ooon! | 19:21 |
| cc_INC | Will we see some awesome Xubuntu t-shirts in the near future or is that a DIY thing too just like the stickers?! :) | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | we'll use a site like zazzle.com or something so people can click to order | 19:49 |
| pleia2 | stickers are cheap to make and ship, shirts less so | 19:49 |
| cc_INC | That's true. But then again a shirt is a better way to promote Xubuntu | 19:52 |
| cc_INC | I think the costs are higher but the results might be effecient?? | 19:52 |
| Unit193 | Local person does shirts, wonder how that'd go. | 19:53 |
| pleia2 | I can't actually afford to bankroll all Xubuntu marketing efforts :) | 19:54 |
| cc_INC | Something like Spreadshirt might work...there are a few on-line stores that carry the same concept as spreadshirt | 19:56 |
| cc_INC | But perhaps that's something for the future :) | 19:57 |
| pleia2 | thanks, added that link to our list of vendors to consider on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products | 19:57 |
| cc_INC | No probs. | 19:58 |
| ochosi | GridCube: ping | 22:42 |
| GridCube | ochosi, :) pong | 22:42 |
| ochosi | hey | 22:42 |
| GridCube | sup? | 22:42 |
| ochosi | for one, i wanted to say that we changed the default playmode from "shuffle" to something that makes more sense in gmusicbrowser | 22:43 |
| ochosi | it'll land in 12.10, but if you do a clean install from our ppa, you can test that already | 22:43 |
| GridCube | :) ok | 22:43 |
| * micahg hides | 22:44 | |
| Unit193 | Hah, I just did too! | 22:44 |
| ochosi | hehe, micahg will upload the changes to quantal soon ;) | 22:44 |
| GridCube | i dont know if you know but we decided with knome that i should step aside from this case because im not objetive enough, so someone else should be taking care of it now | 22:44 |
| ochosi | ok, no i didn't know | 22:45 |
| ochosi | but in any way, it does not matter for this specific point | 22:45 |
| GridCube | :) | 22:45 |
| GridCube | i understand | 22:45 |
| ochosi | because it was your request, and it'll be implemented in 12.10 :) | 22:45 |
| GridCube | :D | 22:45 |
| ochosi | micahg: fwiw, i'm working with the gmb-dev to narrow the gap between the patches debian/ubuntu carries and upstream | 22:46 |
| micahg | cool | 22:46 |
| ochosi | GridCube: so even if you step aside this now, it is important you know that your comments didn't go unheard or anything | 22:46 |
| GridCube | can you make it use the "now playing" playlist by the default? like the one in the "directory and archives" skin? | 22:47 |
| ochosi | GridCube: tbh i wasn't even aware of the fact that gmusicbrowser was shipped with shuffle on by default | 22:47 |
| GridCube | :) thank you very much ochosi | 22:47 |
| GridCube | well... it was :P | 22:47 |
| ochosi | i know that now :) | 22:47 |
| ochosi | for now it'll play in the same order it displays the songs by default | 22:48 |
| GridCube | :) | 22:48 |
| GridCube | good that will make it less confusing :D | 22:48 |
| ochosi | but: the user can always change display and/or sort order | 22:48 |
| GridCube | thats ok, thats expected to happen, users should know and control whatever happens on their computers | 22:48 |
| ochosi | good, nice to find some common ground there | 22:49 |
| GridCube | :) | 22:49 |
| ochosi | i also considered your other comments more, and after a while i realized that parole plays streams as well | 22:50 |
| GridCube | mmhm, in a topic that might sound a bit late, but, parole doesnt integrate with firefox to play streams online, totem does, and vlc too | 22:51 |
| ochosi | yeah, i know | 22:52 |
| ochosi | it's not that late | 22:52 |
| ochosi | i think it was mentioned in the roadmap | 22:52 |
| ochosi | vlc is not an option for obvious reasons (qt etc) | 22:52 |
| ochosi | totem is deeply integrated like most gnome3 stuff nowadays, not sure how many dependencies it would bring | 22:53 |
| GridCube | mmhm | 22:53 |
| GridCube | i've seen a xine plugin too | 22:53 |
| GridCube | never tried it tho | 22:53 |
| ochosi | yes, not sure about its state | 22:53 |
| ochosi | feel free to test it and report back | 22:53 |
| GridCube | :) ok | 22:53 |
| GridCube | at least we could create a kind of link to open streams with parole? | 22:54 |
| ochosi | probably | 22:54 |
| ochosi | would need some investigation | 22:54 |
| ochosi | btw, this might interest you: http://bryanquigley.com/reviews/12-04-music-player-review-init | 22:54 |
| pleia2 | ooh, lots of people around | 22:54 |
| ochosi | not sure how good it'll be though | 22:54 |
| ochosi | ahoi pleia2 :) | 22:54 |
| GridCube | :) hello pleia2 :D | 22:55 |
| GridCube | thanks for the stickers | 22:55 |
| pleia2 | for a presentation on saturday: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xubuntu/xubuntu-feltonlug.pdf | 22:55 |
| Unit193 | parole had a plugin... | 22:55 |
| pleia2 | draft :) if you have comments or stuff you need me to add for your section, please let me know | 22:55 |
| pleia2 | GridCube: welcome :) | 22:56 |
| GridCube | :) nice presentation | 23:00 |
| ochosi | pleia2: i'm not a native speaker, but "Based around | 23:01 |
| ochosi | "? | 23:01 |
| ochosi | i thought "based on" or maybe "built around" | 23:01 |
| pleia2 | I said "around" because it's an "environment" | 23:02 |
| pleia2 | but any of those work really | 23:02 |
| ochosi | right, happy to learn new phrases really :) | 23:02 |
| pleia2 | but I'm American, we mostly just speak bad english | 23:02 |
| ochosi | lol | 23:03 |
| pleia2 | either way, I was missing a "the" in there | 23:03 |
| ochosi | hehe | 23:04 |
| ochosi | pleia2: slide 14, maybe pluralize that "default | 23:06 |
| ochosi | Xubuntu theme | 23:06 |
| ochosi | " | 23:06 |
| ochosi | arr, sorry, for the linebreakes | 23:06 |
| * ochosi has to stop copy-pasting from pdf | 23:06 | |
| pleia2 | good, done | 23:06 |
| pleia2 | I also haven't looked into this "new application finder in 4.10" and catfish.. are they the same thing? | 23:09 |
| ochosi | no, they aren't | 23:09 |
| pleia2 | catfish is a more search tool, not app finder | 23:09 |
| ochosi | actually there are many more comments i could give | 23:09 |
| ochosi | if you want | 23:10 |
| pleia2 | please :) | 23:10 |
| ochosi | ok | 23:10 |
| pleia2 | I pretty much went from my brain, and the website, to gather this stuff | 23:10 |
| ochosi | ok | 23:10 |
| ochosi | well i think that in a way it's optimistic to say that we're doing much more than compiling software | 23:10 |
| ochosi | (referring to slide 11's title, "programming and packaging", imo it's mostly the latter) | 23:11 |
| * pleia2 nods | 23:11 | |
| ochosi | although this might be fine, but "outsiders" sometimes tend to think we really do a lot of programming | 23:11 |
| ochosi | and then they have requests and we always redirect them upstream | 23:11 |
| ochosi | which is neither wrong nor entirely bad, but frustrating for those people | 23:12 |
| ochosi | (i think) | 23:12 |
| ochosi | good example is the "integrate catfish in thunar" discussion on the ml recently | 23:12 |
| ochosi | your slide 9 is far more realistic i think | 23:12 |
| ochosi | i like that a lot | 23:12 |
| pleia2 | in what I actually say during this presentation I'll draw a more clear distinction between what we do and what should be done upstream | 23:12 |
| ochosi | because that describes what we do much more accurately | 23:13 |
| ochosi | okeydokey :) | 23:13 |
| pleia2 | programmers are needed to write bug fixes and backport things, but I'll direct most programmers upstream | 23:13 |
| ochosi | slide 14: what do you mean with "contribute to xfce-look"? | 23:13 |
| ochosi | we do that or people should do that? | 23:13 |
| pleia2 | it's a way to contribute to the xubuntu ecosystem | 23:14 |
| pleia2 | if they don't want to work on shimmer | 23:14 |
| pleia2 | where do we get our non-default themes? | 23:14 |
| pleia2 | xfce-look is one of the things mentioned on http://xubuntu.org/contribute/marketing/ | 23:15 |
| ochosi | currently we don't get them | 23:15 |
| ochosi | i'm working on that | 23:15 |
| ochosi | but i'm not willing to include themes that aren't maintained | 23:15 |
| ochosi | personally i dislike xfce-look because it's sooo messy | 23:15 |
| pleia2 | it is a bit :\ | 23:15 |
| Unit193 | And has nothing that is compatible with GTK2 and 3 | 23:16 |
| ochosi | yeah, there a few criteria for accepting a new theme into our install | 23:16 |
| ochosi | (maybe we should also make those more public) | 23:17 |
| ochosi | 1) supports xfce, gtk2, gtk3 | 23:17 |
| ochosi | 2) is maintained (i.e. over more than one release) | 23:17 |
| ochosi | 3) good quality | 23:17 |
| ochosi | the last one is the most difficult, but i'd narrow that down to technical aspects that are more easily objectifiable | 23:18 |
| pleia2 | is there any place we could recommend theme developers put their stuff if not xfce-look? | 23:18 |
| ochosi | well, there's deviantart | 23:19 |
| ochosi | that has a little higher standards | 23:19 |
| ochosi | but obviously there's also a lot of crap | 23:19 |
| ochosi | i mean xfce-look is a place to start | 23:19 |
| Unit193 | Zukitwo for example isn't too bad. | 23:19 |
| ochosi | maybe just say in your presentation that ppl should get in touch with us if they have themes or want to contribute | 23:20 |
| Unit193 | I like ones I can git pull. :P | 23:20 |
| pleia2 | ochosi: ok, sounds good :) | 23:20 |
| ochosi | Unit193: yeah, i know. lasse is pretty good, but unfortunately we won't be able to get him as a contributor. he's a gnomeshell/archlinux user | 23:20 |
| ochosi | pleia2: ok, continuing the comments... | 23:22 |
| ochosi | slide 16: why do you list gthumb3? | 23:22 |
| pleia2 | isn't it a default app? | 23:22 |
| ochosi | no rhetorical question, i have no clue what improved there | 23:22 |
| ochosi | yeah, but so is abiword | 23:23 |
| ochosi | or evince | 23:23 |
| pleia2 | oh, when writing release notes I went through a whole bunch of default apps and compared versions between 12.04 and 12.10 | 23:23 |
| pleia2 | those were the ones with major changes | 23:23 |
| ochosi | ok | 23:23 |
| ochosi | slide 17: add "Panel: " to items 2 and 3 in the list | 23:23 |
| ochosi | otherwise i'd think: "what's that about"? | 23:24 |
| pleia2 | ah, good catch | 23:24 |
| pleia2 | I still need to test some of this stuff, I mostly just grabbed from 4.10 release notes and /tour | 23:25 |
| ochosi | also: many ppl might be more interested in "thumbnails on the desktop" than "single click launching apps" | 23:25 |
| ochosi | also because it's not 100% true, you can single-click and open documents too | 23:25 |
| pleia2 | ok | 23:25 |
| ochosi | so it's more general single-click support (as in thunar) | 23:25 |
| pleia2 | gotcha | 23:25 |
| ochosi | again slide 16: gtk3 support was pretty perfect in 12.04 already, not sure we can improve it that much ;) | 23:26 |
| ochosi | (in greybird at least) | 23:26 |
| pleia2 | what was the weirdness I saw in those bugs I submitted? | 23:26 |
| pleia2 | in menus | 23:27 |
| ochosi | but you could instead say: improved gtk3 support for Xubuntu's default themes | 23:27 |
| ochosi | that was in quantal | 23:27 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 23:27 |
| ochosi | it was a bug in the unico-engine | 23:27 |
| ochosi | i already fixed it | 23:27 |
| ochosi | ;) | 23:27 |
| ochosi | in bluebird _and_ greybird | 23:27 |
| pleia2 | oh ok | 23:27 |
| ochosi | and it was fixed in albatross anyway | 23:27 |
| pleia2 | I guess I didn't separate unico-engine and gtk3 in my head | 23:28 |
| ochosi | i'm trying to get rid of the dependency on the unico-engine | 23:28 |
| ochosi | mostly because the author of unico wants to get rid of it too :) | 23:29 |
| pleia2 | ah :) | 23:29 |
| ochosi | well it's one less source for errors | 23:29 |
| pleia2 | so in 12.10, are we removing the broken themes and just shipping with a few themes? | 23:30 |
| ochosi | we're trying to | 23:31 |
| * pleia2 nods | 23:31 | |
| ochosi | we're already not shipping "murrine-themes" anymore | 23:31 |
| ochosi | it contains a lot of themes that only support gtk2 | 23:31 |
| ochosi | basically we have to assemble a new collection of themes | 23:31 |
| ochosi | and the problem is: many of them only support specific gtk3 versions | 23:31 |
| ochosi | for greybird i have a version for gtk3.2, one for gtk3.4 and now one for gtk3.6 | 23:32 |
| ochosi | not backward or forward compatible | 23:32 |
| pleia2 | ouch | 23:32 |
| ochosi | each version will break in the wrong environment | 23:32 |
| ochosi | gtk3 is a mess.. | 23:32 |
| ochosi | that's why maintenance is the second point on the list i posted above | 23:32 |
| Unit193 | But it's better! | 23:32 |
| ochosi | you mean gtk3? | 23:34 |
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