[00:07] anyone here build ubuntu/xubuntu from scratch [00:10] do i look like a buildbot? :) [00:10] This channel is filled with various bots. [00:10] Just sayin'... [00:11] haha [00:11] He'll call anyone a bot. [00:13] looking for someone that has built it from scratch with the livecd-rootfs tools i can build the chroot no problem its building the iso is where i have an issue === hobgoblin is now known as elfy [08:06] morning everyone [08:07] o/ [08:09] morning [08:59] Meetings wikipage is not updated. Shouldn't we have the next one tomorrow, or am I out of my mind even worse than usual? [09:06] astraljava: i think you're right [09:07] knome: what about tomorrow's meeting? [09:07] astraljava: (i updated the agenda with new items though) [09:23] https://launchpad.net/~degeneracypressure/+archive/abiword [09:23] the ppa description is interesting [09:23] nice [09:26] astraljava: x and y coordinates come from xrandr, iirc there's no left/right/above/below notion [09:28] ochosi: Oh, right. I suppose it's because that last meeting wasn't held, IIRC. [09:29] astraljava: yes [09:31] mr_pouit: Yeah, that's what I figured. So for me to add the functionality of those, I need to calculate the correct x and y coordinates for both outputs. [09:34] but it's not so hard, i mean "right of screen1" just means you have to add the x-resolution of screen1 as starting-value for screen2 [09:34] i have this stored in xfconf like that at work so that i get my two screens set up correctly [09:35] same here (unsurprisingly :p) [09:35] ochosi: No, like I said, it's not that hard. [09:36] it's ugly to manage more than 2 screens with comboboxes though [09:36] Just it has to have all the options covered; changing the other display as primary -> swap (recalculate if not identical) coordinates etc. [09:37] mr_pouit: but it's a rare use-case. if it works for most users, it's already an improvement [09:37] mr_pouit: Yeah, I suppose I'll add support for two screens at first. :) [09:37] I don't know what'd be the best way to provide support for multiple, to be honest. [09:38] ppl who have such a rare-usecase can fiddle with xfconf :) [09:39] Heheh. [09:40] as long as we provide basic support for two screens, which is a really typical scenario these days, i'm happy [09:40] I'll see if I can make progress with it tonight. [09:44] great [09:46] Wiki page updated, reminder posted. [09:48] fiddling with glade xml in a text-editor is just _fun_ [09:52] Oh yeah, about the glade template, the "Use this output" was not a checkbox anymore, I wondered about that, but I suppose that's how it's wanted these days. I made the mirror thing as one, though. [09:53] wait, what abou tthe use-this-output checkbox? [09:54] It seemed to be a button instead of a checkbox these days. [09:54] a toggle-button? [09:54] Might have been, yeah. [09:54] and where did you see that? [09:55] In glade, in the quantal sources. [09:55] in the glade file of ubuntu's dialog you mean? [09:55] Yeah. [09:55] k [09:56] Err... Ubuntu dialog? I mean, I apt-get sourced xfce4-settings, which is the source package that holds the display-dialogs. [09:56] a-ha [09:56] i didn't realize there were changes to it [09:56] well ok, in that case keep it as a toggle [09:57] Right. Yeah wasn't gonna change that, but would you like the mirror thingie as such, too? [09:57] To keep it consitent? [09:57] consistent* [09:57] i guess yes [09:57] Ok. [09:57] as soon as it's ported to gtk3 there will be the gtkswitch widget anyway.. [09:58] Yeah ok. [10:12] gah, parole seems to be a can of worms :( [10:13] while i can fix the main interface, that seems to screw up the fullscreen-interface, oh how i hate you glade! [10:28] Not a big fan of it either. [10:29] shit, parole's code is really scattered all over the place [10:29] now i see why nobody wanted to touch it [10:39] * astraljava doesn't even recall it, maybe it is really off-putting... [10:39] ;) [10:41] well it's unexpectedly difficult to just play with the UI [11:24] ok, finally managed to make parole look better [11:30] http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-07102012-013038pm.php [11:31] apart from the stupid statusbar it's pretty close to as it should be [11:31] that does look better - will mine have free toast? [11:32] maybe, you'll have to try to find out :) [11:32] :) [11:32] if only i could move the stupid playtime stuff from the statusbar to the control-bar [11:33] but i think that might turn out too difficult for me [11:40] mr_pouit: micahg: What your opinion re: bug #1019621? Could we get this done? The abiword maintainer over at the Debian-side weighed in on the matter in the comments. [11:40] Launchpad bug 1019621 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Precise abiword version needs to be reverted to stable release prior to 12.04.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019621 [11:48] (msevior is an upstream abiword developer afaik) [11:50] Oh ok, sorry, I think he himself used maintainer in the comment, so made a wrong link in mind. [12:05] ochosi, astralkava: yes, the next meeting should be tomorrow. sorry for not updating the page [12:05] astraljava, btw, it's 11th tomorrow. [12:05] grr... [12:06] astraljava, well, i fixed the wikipage and sent a fixing email [12:06] Ahh... you updated it, thanks. [12:12] astraljava: yeah, I'm for the revert (micahg disagrees though). But staying in sync with Debian is also less work from us. :P I've replied to the bug report anyway. [12:16] mr_pouit: Thanks. What is the entity that calls the shots on this? [12:20] the sru team (and the release team) [12:20] however, I don't think this is feasible (nor reasonable) to revert with a SRU [12:21] Yeah. I suppose it's more valuable to spend time in actually fixing the bugs. [12:31] Meeting for tomorrow isn't on either calendar... [12:33] Does the calendar support reoccurance? [12:33] Unit193, the calendars are still WIP. [12:33] ...or whatever the correct term is... [12:34] Unit193, no-one said "start following this and you'll get all updates" [12:34] No, but I'm saying it now in case you didn't know. [12:43] i knew. [12:44] well yes and no. basically, i'm not counting on the calendar. yet. [13:47] mr_pouit: the whole abiword thing is a mess, do you have any idea if the new snapshot is ABI compatible with 2.9.2? additionally, I'm concerned as you mentioned in the bug report about "upgrades" from 2.9.2 to 2.8.6 [13:58] micahg: and 2.9.x uses gtk3 whereas 2.8.x gtk2, so messy++ (as much as I'd like to revert, I fear things will get worse) [14:01] mr_pouit: right, so I think our best shot is an SRU if it's ABI compatible === hobgoblin is now known as elfy [19:00] moo.com is having a 30% off everything summer sale, in case anyone else wants to order the spiffy xubuntu stickers [19:00] (as their sales go, this is a pretty good one) [19:01] pleia2: thanks a lot for the stickers!! [19:01] pleia2: arrived today and my flatmate loved it :) [19:02] Hm. Only us.moo.com, no ca.moo.com [19:02] ochosi: welcome :) I fear I may have forgotten to include the UW ones [19:02] genii-around: they're a uk company, but they ship internationally [19:03] pleia2: Ah, OK [19:14] pleia2: true, but no biggy [19:18] pleia2: holy cow! [19:21] Yeah, I concur. To forget the UW ones?! Come... ooon! [19:48] Will we see some awesome Xubuntu t-shirts in the near future or is that a DIY thing too just like the stickers?! :) [19:49] we'll use a site like zazzle.com or something so people can click to order [19:49] stickers are cheap to make and ship, shirts less so [19:52] That's true. But then again a shirt is a better way to promote Xubuntu [19:52] I think the costs are higher but the results might be effecient?? [19:53] Local person does shirts, wonder how that'd go. [19:54] I can't actually afford to bankroll all Xubuntu marketing efforts :) [19:56] Something like Spreadshirt might work...there are a few on-line stores that carry the same concept as spreadshirt [19:57] But perhaps that's something for the future :) [19:57] thanks, added that link to our list of vendors to consider on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products [19:58] No probs. [22:42] GridCube: ping [22:42] ochosi, :) pong [22:42] hey [22:42] sup? [22:43] for one, i wanted to say that we changed the default playmode from "shuffle" to something that makes more sense in gmusicbrowser [22:43] it'll land in 12.10, but if you do a clean install from our ppa, you can test that already [22:43] :) ok [22:44] * micahg hides [22:44] Hah, I just did too! [22:44] hehe, micahg will upload the changes to quantal soon ;) [22:44] i dont know if you know but we decided with knome that i should step aside from this case because im not objetive enough, so someone else should be taking care of it now [22:45] ok, no i didn't know [22:45] but in any way, it does not matter for this specific point [22:45] :) [22:45] i understand [22:45] because it was your request, and it'll be implemented in 12.10 :) [22:45] :D [22:46] micahg: fwiw, i'm working with the gmb-dev to narrow the gap between the patches debian/ubuntu carries and upstream [22:46] cool [22:46] GridCube: so even if you step aside this now, it is important you know that your comments didn't go unheard or anything [22:47] can you make it use the "now playing" playlist by the default? like the one in the "directory and archives" skin? [22:47] GridCube: tbh i wasn't even aware of the fact that gmusicbrowser was shipped with shuffle on by default [22:47] :) thank you very much ochosi [22:47] well... it was :P [22:47] i know that now :) [22:48] for now it'll play in the same order it displays the songs by default [22:48] :) [22:48] good that will make it less confusing :D [22:48] but: the user can always change display and/or sort order [22:48] thats ok, thats expected to happen, users should know and control whatever happens on their computers [22:49] good, nice to find some common ground there [22:49] :) [22:50] i also considered your other comments more, and after a while i realized that parole plays streams as well [22:51] mmhm, in a topic that might sound a bit late, but, parole doesnt integrate with firefox to play streams online, totem does, and vlc too [22:52] yeah, i know [22:52] it's not that late [22:52] i think it was mentioned in the roadmap [22:52] vlc is not an option for obvious reasons (qt etc) [22:53] totem is deeply integrated like most gnome3 stuff nowadays, not sure how many dependencies it would bring [22:53] mmhm [22:53] i've seen a xine plugin too [22:53] never tried it tho [22:53] yes, not sure about its state [22:53] feel free to test it and report back [22:53] :) ok [22:54] at least we could create a kind of link to open streams with parole? [22:54] probably [22:54] would need some investigation [22:54] btw, this might interest you: http://bryanquigley.com/reviews/12-04-music-player-review-init [22:54] ooh, lots of people around [22:54] not sure how good it'll be though [22:54] ahoi pleia2 :) [22:55] :) hello pleia2 :D [22:55] thanks for the stickers [22:55] for a presentation on saturday: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xubuntu/xubuntu-feltonlug.pdf [22:55] parole had a plugin... [22:55] draft :) if you have comments or stuff you need me to add for your section, please let me know [22:56] GridCube: welcome :) [23:00] :) nice presentation [23:01] pleia2: i'm not a native speaker, but "Based around [23:01] "? [23:01] i thought "based on" or maybe "built around" [23:02] I said "around" because it's an "environment" [23:02] but any of those work really [23:02] right, happy to learn new phrases really :) [23:02] but I'm American, we mostly just speak bad english [23:03] lol [23:03] either way, I was missing a "the" in there [23:04] hehe [23:06] pleia2: slide 14, maybe pluralize that "default [23:06] Xubuntu theme [23:06] " [23:06] arr, sorry, for the linebreakes [23:06] * ochosi has to stop copy-pasting from pdf [23:06] good, done [23:09] I also haven't looked into this "new application finder in 4.10" and catfish.. are they the same thing? [23:09] no, they aren't [23:09] catfish is a more search tool, not app finder [23:09] actually there are many more comments i could give [23:10] if you want [23:10] please :) [23:10] ok [23:10] I pretty much went from my brain, and the website, to gather this stuff [23:10] ok [23:10] well i think that in a way it's optimistic to say that we're doing much more than compiling software [23:11] (referring to slide 11's title, "programming and packaging", imo it's mostly the latter) [23:11] * pleia2 nods [23:11] although this might be fine, but "outsiders" sometimes tend to think we really do a lot of programming [23:11] and then they have requests and we always redirect them upstream [23:12] which is neither wrong nor entirely bad, but frustrating for those people [23:12] (i think) [23:12] good example is the "integrate catfish in thunar" discussion on the ml recently [23:12] your slide 9 is far more realistic i think [23:12] i like that a lot [23:12] in what I actually say during this presentation I'll draw a more clear distinction between what we do and what should be done upstream [23:13] because that describes what we do much more accurately [23:13] okeydokey :) [23:13] programmers are needed to write bug fixes and backport things, but I'll direct most programmers upstream [23:13] slide 14: what do you mean with "contribute to xfce-look"? [23:13] we do that or people should do that? [23:14] it's a way to contribute to the xubuntu ecosystem [23:14] if they don't want to work on shimmer [23:14] where do we get our non-default themes? [23:15] xfce-look is one of the things mentioned on http://xubuntu.org/contribute/marketing/ [23:15] currently we don't get them [23:15] i'm working on that [23:15] but i'm not willing to include themes that aren't maintained [23:15] personally i dislike xfce-look because it's sooo messy [23:15] it is a bit :\ [23:16] And has nothing that is compatible with GTK2 and 3 [23:16] yeah, there a few criteria for accepting a new theme into our install [23:17] (maybe we should also make those more public) [23:17] 1) supports xfce, gtk2, gtk3 [23:17] 2) is maintained (i.e. over more than one release) [23:17] 3) good quality [23:18] the last one is the most difficult, but i'd narrow that down to technical aspects that are more easily objectifiable [23:18] is there any place we could recommend theme developers put their stuff if not xfce-look? [23:19] well, there's deviantart [23:19] that has a little higher standards [23:19] but obviously there's also a lot of crap [23:19] i mean xfce-look is a place to start [23:19] Zukitwo for example isn't too bad. [23:20] maybe just say in your presentation that ppl should get in touch with us if they have themes or want to contribute [23:20] I like ones I can git pull. :P [23:20] ochosi: ok, sounds good :) [23:20] Unit193: yeah, i know. lasse is pretty good, but unfortunately we won't be able to get him as a contributor. he's a gnomeshell/archlinux user [23:22] pleia2: ok, continuing the comments... [23:22] slide 16: why do you list gthumb3? [23:22] isn't it a default app? [23:22] no rhetorical question, i have no clue what improved there [23:23] yeah, but so is abiword [23:23] or evince [23:23] oh, when writing release notes I went through a whole bunch of default apps and compared versions between 12.04 and 12.10 [23:23] those were the ones with major changes [23:23] ok [23:23] slide 17: add "Panel: " to items 2 and 3 in the list [23:24] otherwise i'd think: "what's that about"? [23:24] ah, good catch [23:25] I still need to test some of this stuff, I mostly just grabbed from 4.10 release notes and /tour [23:25] also: many ppl might be more interested in "thumbnails on the desktop" than "single click launching apps" [23:25] also because it's not 100% true, you can single-click and open documents too [23:25] ok [23:25] so it's more general single-click support (as in thunar) [23:25] gotcha [23:26] again slide 16: gtk3 support was pretty perfect in 12.04 already, not sure we can improve it that much ;) [23:26] (in greybird at least) [23:26] what was the weirdness I saw in those bugs I submitted? [23:27] in menus [23:27] but you could instead say: improved gtk3 support for Xubuntu's default themes [23:27] that was in quantal [23:27] yeah [23:27] it was a bug in the unico-engine [23:27] i already fixed it [23:27] ;) [23:27] in bluebird _and_ greybird [23:27] oh ok [23:27] and it was fixed in albatross anyway [23:28] I guess I didn't separate unico-engine and gtk3 in my head [23:28] i'm trying to get rid of the dependency on the unico-engine [23:29] mostly because the author of unico wants to get rid of it too :) [23:29] ah :) [23:29] well it's one less source for errors [23:30] so in 12.10, are we removing the broken themes and just shipping with a few themes? [23:31] we're trying to [23:31] * pleia2 nods [23:31] we're already not shipping "murrine-themes" anymore [23:31] it contains a lot of themes that only support gtk2 [23:31] basically we have to assemble a new collection of themes [23:31] and the problem is: many of them only support specific gtk3 versions [23:32] for greybird i have a version for gtk3.2, one for gtk3.4 and now one for gtk3.6 [23:32] not backward or forward compatible [23:32] ouch [23:32] each version will break in the wrong environment [23:32] gtk3 is a mess.. [23:32] that's why maintenance is the second point on the list i posted above [23:32] But it's better! [23:34] you mean gtk3?