[00:14] <rick_h_> greg-g: welcome to the club. Soon you'll have to stop and think when someone asks you your age
[00:14] <rick_h_> I think 33 was the first time I got it wrong. I said 32 and my wife shouted "you are not!"
[00:15] <greg-g> hehe
[00:19] <snap-l> hah
[00:20] <snap-l> Worse is when you forget how long it's been since a particular event.
[00:20] <snap-l> "Oh, that was 5 years ago." "No, it was 10"
[00:20] <snap-l> Ugh
[00:22] <gamerchick02> oh no. so the forgetfulness comes along before you're 40?
[00:22] <gamerchick02> everything goes to hell after 30?
[00:22] <gamerchick02> i'm going to be the ripe old age of 31 this year.
[00:22] <gamerchick02> where's my cane?
[00:37] <jrwren> greg-g: you are only 30? holy shit, I thought you were 40! :p
[01:25] <derekv> I forgot about mug.
[01:26] <derekv> I had a really stupid day.
[01:26] <rick_h_> ugh, sucky
[01:26] <derekv> basically missed work, was going to take care of getting the insurance check but it turned into an all day fiasco
[01:42] <rick_h_> ah, so at least it wasn't that bad a work day
[01:55] <rick_h_> kind of scary http://goo.gl/OOa7B
[02:02] <brousch1> Scay?
[02:02] <brousch1> Scary?
[02:02] <rick_h_> yea, you spend years putting all this code into github, and then github turns it around and turns it into a recruiter info haven
[02:03] <rick_h_> github -> dice.com
[02:03] <brousch1> Well, that's betterthan just letting it rot
[02:03] <derekv> are recruiters really a problem?
[02:03] <derekv> seems like a good kind of problem.
[02:04] <derekv> like its a problem when your a rockstar ppl want you to sign things
[02:04] <derekv> I mean, its just spam.
[02:05] <derekv> And I don't seem to have a big problem with it, somehow =/
[02:13] <greg-g> jrwren: :P
[02:41] <jrwren> i think githubs plans are quite a bit different than that.
[02:41] <jrwren> their current management structure means that none of the current employees would actually execute that icky vision.
[02:41] <jrwren> greg-g: having a baby at age 29 was fabulous for me. I think it shall be wonderful for you.
[02:42] <snap-l> This is why I closed my linkedin account
[02:42] <snap-l> I think my future opportunities are all via github and connections
[02:42] <snap-l> If I never have to hit dice.com ever again, it'll be too soon
[02:43] <derekv> well linked-in just sucks
[02:43] <snap-l> yes
[02:45] <derekv> does it make me look bad that i'm shopping around for a new job?
[02:45] <snap-l> Not unless you want to fee bad about it
[02:46] <derekv> or maybe just if I phrase it that way.
[02:46] <snap-l> Honestly, I don't think jobs are the cradle-to-grave endeavors they used to be
[02:47] <snap-l> my dad worked with the same company for so long, they were like family
[02:47] <snap-l> I don't think I'll ever get that feeling
[02:48] <derekv> snap-l: yea clearly most companies don't want that and many employees don't expect that either
[02:48] <jrwren> i did at srt.
[02:48] <jrwren> i left anyway.
[02:48] <jrwren> just who i am.
[02:49] <derekv> I don't want to be doing busness related software/ consulting... I've learned a lot, there's potentially a good career out of it, if I kept with it, I would continue to learn.
[02:54] <derekv> Its just not what I picture myself doing.
[02:58] <snap-l> Business anything means dealing with dysfunction
[02:59] <derekv> snap-l: thank you for saying it so succinctly
[03:00] <derekv> I had something more like "Business is people and processes attached parasitically to something which makes money, the whole functional strategy of  which is to appear complex for the sake of justifying its own existence."
[03:24] <derekv> On the one hand, I'm really interested in agile, kanban, tdd, etc, whatever, dependancy injection, user stories, facade pattern ... all these ideas, I want to experiment with them and see, at the end of a project, what really helped?
[03:25] <derekv> but to that end I risk making code too complex, unintentionally, because I needed to try something
[03:26] <derekv> and so on the other shoulder I have a little guy saying that all that is BS and its getting in the way of programming
[03:31] <derekv> how many tests should I write like testThatAppDelegateCanBeInstantiated instantiate
[03:31] <derekv> stutter
[11:38] <shakes808> morning
[11:38] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:41] <rick_h_> ugh
[11:41] <rick_h_> is it friday yet?
[11:41] <snap-l> Not yet
[11:42] <snap-l> My alarm woke me funny this morning. Have been a bit out of sorts because of it.
[11:42] <shakes808> +1 to rick_h
[11:51] <rick_h_> crap, just had my first "why?" 20 times in a row with the boy
[11:51] <rick_h_> "don't touch daddy's book please" "why?"
[11:52] <rick_h_> "because you tend to destroy things, and daddy wants to keep that book" "why?"
[11:52] <rick_h_> "because you're a toddler..." "why?"
[11:54] <snap-l> "because at this age, you're a precocious little youngster who is more interested in engaging in converation to try to get his way of touching the book than in actually discussing the issue at hand, which is 'Daddy doesn't want you touching that book'"
[11:59] <brousch> rick_h_: Sometimes it's fun
[11:59] <brousch> Good educational opportunity
[12:00] <rick_h_> yea, well just try to answer each honestly and see where it goes
[12:01] <brousch> Exactly
[12:01] <brousch> Though it can be annoying if you're trying to do something else
[12:04] <brousch> I got to cut an apple in half last week to demonstrate the shape of the earth and its interior
[12:12] <snap-l> Hm, hoping I can figure out these modem troubles.
[12:13] <snap-l> seem to be getting disconnected at least once a day when the modem resets.
[12:13] <snap-l> just reset the modem after a call to WOWWay
[12:14] <snap-l> but it did get a ful power-down when we had the power outage
[12:18] <brousch> I found your problem. You are using a modem.
[12:22] <snap-l> brousch: Well, I can't find the telegraph.
[12:26] <brousch> That's what you get for throwing away old tech.
[12:27] <brousch> "Good news! You now have 109GB of space in your Dropbox!"
[12:29] <rick_h_> woot
[12:29] <rick_h_> usic in there now
[12:29] <rick_h_> bah
[12:30] <rick_h_> I might have to drop my music in there now
[12:30] <brousch> I just moved mine out 3 months ago
[12:40] <snap-l> Yeah, I have 104.25GB of space
[12:41] <snap-l> and I'm using 4.5GB of it
[12:55] <nullspace> snap-l: how did you manage that?
[12:56] <snap-l> I pay for the extra storage? :)
[12:56] <nullspace> ah
[12:56] <nullspace> I though you ment you got it for free, I was like holy crap you manged to get a bunch of people to join
[12:57] <nullspace> wait that's limited at 18GB
[12:58] <nullspace> hmm ubuntu one never really took off
[12:58] <brousch> You also get some free when you activate auto-uploads of photos from your phone
[12:58] <brousch> And they have occasional quests
[13:02] <rick_h_> bwuhahaha my evil is complete http://pypi.python.org/pypi/launchpad_yui
[13:07] <rick_h_> and auto push/popd ftw
[13:13] <jrwren> snap-l, derekv i would like to correct you on your definition of business last night and suggest that you are overly cynical
[13:14] <rick_h_> lol
[13:14] <rick_h_> I must have missed this
[13:15] <snap-l> jrwren: Perhaps it is the size of the company that brings about the cynical nature.
[13:15] <jrwren> my girl never went through the endless why phase. I'm jealous of you guys.
[13:15] <snap-l> rick_h_: Congratulations!
[13:16] <jrwren> snap-l: agreed, in general big means bad.
[13:20] <snap-l> big == complicated
[13:20] <snap-l> It's like steering a battleship
[13:28] <brousch> Hm, pyjamas could really use some better documentation
[13:28] <brousch> This is gonna be a challenge to get it working
[13:29] <rick_h_> ugh
[13:29] <rick_h_> really?
[13:29] <rick_h_> what are you doing with pyjamas?
[13:32] <jrwren> yet complexity does not have to mean dysfunction.
[13:33] <brousch> rick_h_: Part of my Python on/for Android decent into madness
[13:33] <snap-l> jrwren: It's a great company that can manage complexity without becoming dysfunctional
[13:33] <brousch> Descent
[13:33] <snap-l> jrwren: I have yet to see this.
[13:37] <jrwren> me too.
[13:37] <jrwren> i'd point to companies, but none are "big"
[13:37] <jrwren> some are no longer tiny.
[13:37] <jrwren> github is on the verge of something either very great, or their time is about come and the will become too large for awesome.
[13:37] <jrwren> i really hope they continue with their greatness.
[13:39] <snap-l> jrwren: The problems start creeping in when the cash flow doesn't exceed the expenses
[13:39] <snap-l> That's usually when "the adults" come into a company and start making sweeping changes in the name of keeping things afloat.
[13:40] <jrwren> at that point, it is too late.
[13:41] <snap-l> The problems come in whenever the company defines themselves so radically different from their current customer base.
[13:41] <jrwren> but SRT handled that extremely well, so it does not always happen badly
[13:41] <jrwren> oh yes, that is a huge problem.
[13:41] <snap-l> SRT still has the founders on-board
[13:41] <jrwren> the founders still run the company
[13:41] <jrwren> no outside funds.
[13:41] <snap-l> right
[13:42] <snap-l> once you start getting outside funds, that's when things start to fester.
[13:42] <jrwren> outside funding is a first huge warning sign, which is why I worry a bit about github
[13:42] <snap-l> and why I worry about facebook, even though I can't stand them.
[13:42] <snap-l> The first earnings call they have where they miss their target is when it'll all go to shit
[13:42] <jrwren> for certain products its difficult if not impossible to build a company around without some up front capital
[13:43] <snap-l> (or at least trend that way)
[13:43] <jrwren> software and services have the luxury of being easily bootstrapable
[13:43] <snap-l> Note how many folks are still with Geeknet
[13:43] <jrwren> maybe.
[13:43] <jrwren> public companies are different.
[13:43] <jrwren> i have no idea how many geeknet folks there are.
[13:44] <jrwren> all /. founders are gone AFAIK, but I don't know about the other original companies which were aquired
[13:44] <snap-l> They're gone too
[13:48] <jrwren> and they are public
[13:48] <jrwren> so they answer to shareholders, although I can't imagine they have a vocal shareholder
[13:48] <snap-l> They do.
[13:49] <jrwren> really?
[13:49] <snap-l> Check their stock.
[13:49] <jrwren> oh 33% insider held.
[13:49] <jrwren> by whom I wonder.
[13:49] <jrwren> gotta be an early investor.
[13:49] <snap-l> nope
[13:50] <jrwren> wow, they are bleeding.
[13:50] <jrwren> not an early investor?
[13:50] <jrwren> did someone just come in and buy?
[13:50] <snap-l> yep
[13:50] <jrwren> haha, SUCKER!
[13:50] <snap-l> http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/companyOfficers?symbol=GKNT.O&WTmodLOC=C4-Officers-5
[13:51] <jrwren> oh, the board is the 33% holders?
[14:11] <brousch> greg-g: I am unable to parse your tweet. I think one of us is not awake yet.
[14:15] <greg-g> probably me
[14:15] <greg-g> untappd is an app, it appears in my twitter timeline when my contacts are drinking beer, I assume it also lets you rate the beers you are drinking
[14:16]  * greg-g has not used it
[14:16] <greg-g> it is like a foursquare of beer drinking, it appears
[14:16] <greg-g> brousch: ^
[14:17] <brousch> heh, thanks
[14:17] <brousch> Darn 140 characters
[14:18] <greg-g> yeah
[14:19] <greg-g> also, I feel hungover from drinking one beer last night
[14:19] <greg-g> though, I mostly blame sleeping in this hotel room
[14:22] <brousch> I've had that from strong beers like Dragon's Milk or Dirty Bastard
[14:23] <greg-g> it wasn't too bad, it was an IPA, uh, something local (DC)
[14:25] <brousch> I don't like IPAs. Too hoppy
[14:25] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm not a fan of IPas either
[14:27] <jrwren> i love ipa, more hops please, and pass the hops and can i have a side of hops with that.
[14:28] <brousch> Your comment made me make the bitter beer face
[14:31]  * greg-g looooves hops
[14:34] <greg-g> I even got my mom into hops, she loooves the dogfish head 90 minute :)
[14:35] <greg-g> the one they sell in 4 packs because it is like 10 or so percent :)
[14:35] <greg-g> mmmmmmmmm
[14:36] <jrwren> greg-g: same here with my dad. I handed him a huma lumpa licious and it was like he rediscovered beer.
[14:36] <jrwren> i watched his face light up like a child. it was awesome.
[14:36] <jrwren> then he mentioned that he bought some for himself weeks later.
[14:37] <jrwren> ... question for linux folks: this is a weird sudoers entry, right? ALL     ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
[14:37] <jrwren> adn by weird, i mean, all can sudo as root
[14:37] <greg-g> jrwren: mmmmm huma lumpa licious
[14:38] <jrwren> my wife is taking me west mi beer touring this weekend :)
[14:38] <greg-g> I need a pre noon beer now :)
[14:38] <greg-g> niice!
[14:38] <rick_h_> jrwren: so...they've just said "if you have an account on here with a password you can sudo" ?
[14:39] <rick_h_> not even that, nopasswd ...hmm yea strange I guess
[14:40] <snap-l> If the end game is passwordless sudo... ;)
[14:41] <snap-l> Weird is a relative term, though. But yeah, it's a pretty loose entry
[14:43] <brousch> jrwren: Where are you going? We went to Saugatuck Brewing Company last weekend. It was a really nice pub/restaurant with a large variety of their own beers
[14:47] <jrwren> brousch: i'm not sure. she is planning it.
[14:47] <jrwren> brousch: I think we will probably hit founders and that other GR brewery.
[14:47] <jrwren> maybe we will stop in marshall and battlecreek on our way? I really don't know.
[14:48] <brousch> Hopcat or Brewery Vivant?
[14:49] <brousch> I think you would like Vivant
[14:49] <jrwren> after some thought, I've decided that the sudoers is *really bad* because if any account is breeched, it has access to root. *BAD*
[14:49] <jrwren> brousch: maybe both, I dunno.
[14:49] <jrwren> which is an old church?
[14:49] <rick_h_> jrwren: that's why it should be limited to the duty of that login, specific commands/etc
[14:50] <brousch> jrwren: Yeah, and old church. They have great atmosphere and interesting beers
[14:51] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, root should be given sparingly
[14:51] <snap-l> if it's a dev box, and it doesn't matter if the machine goes to hell, that would be fine
[14:51] <snap-l> but if it impacts other people, or has access to machines that do, it's generally considered bad form.
[14:57] <jrwren> this is production
[14:58] <jrwren> only 1 user account on the system, but its teh system accounts i am more concerned with.
[14:58] <jrwren> a www-data code execution would be bad
[14:58] <rick_h_> jrwren: but can you sudo if you don't have a shell?
[14:58] <rick_h_> I've never tried it, but would imagine that would be false
[14:59] <jrwren> yes, you can.
[14:59] <jrwren> there is good use case for it too.
[15:00] <jrwren> e.g. cron job as regular user which calls sudo for a command. the sudoers permits only that command for that user, not ALL.
[15:05] <derekv> hi
[15:20] <snap-l> jrwren: You might want to chroot that command
[15:20] <snap-l> or move it to another box
[15:23] <brousch> snap-l: http://i.imgur.com/aJGy6.jpg
[15:38] <jrwren> snap-l: huh? why?
[15:42] <snap-l> brousch: I've wanted to make WWHRD stuff for years.
[15:42] <snap-l> jrwren: Keeps cron honest.
[15:42] <snap-l> if cron needs to sudo, there's abuse potential
[15:43] <derekv> i can't set repeating appointments with google calander that I could specify with cron I've figured out.
[15:43] <derekv> like "last friday before 15th and 1st every month""
[15:44] <snap-l> I know how to do the latter, but not sure how to do the former
[15:44] <waldo323_> or for the same event
[15:55] <jrwren> snap-l: not the cron user, a different user, and of course the single command would need to be audited. I'm not advocating sudo vi or cat :)
[15:55] <rick_h_> snap-l: http://cjohansen.no/talks/2011/xp-meetup/#25
[15:55] <derekv> oh man, good things come to those who slack
[15:56] <derekv> controlallrobots.com is open again
[15:57] <snap-l> rick_h_: cute
[15:57] <rick_h_> snap-l: thought you'd like that slide
[15:59] <greg-g> jcastro: dude, you have 3 user accounts on the oscon website :)
[15:59] <waldo323_> are they using sched.org for there scheduling?
[16:01] <jcastro> greg-g: yeah I duno what's up with that
[16:01] <greg-g> well, I marked them all as contacts :)
[16:06] <jcastro> I don't like the oreilly thing
[16:06] <jcastro> it's like, let's make our own dumber social network
[16:06] <jcastro> like "so and so sent you a message!"
[16:06] <jcastro> so I have to go to their site, etc. to find it
[16:08] <greg-g> yeah, probably dumb that I just added people as contacts, Danese Cooper added me so I was like "hmm, why not?
[16:08] <greg-g> "
[17:02] <jcastro> well it's like
[17:02] <jcastro> oreilly makes me tell them everything anyway
[17:02] <jcastro> like my twitter and email
[17:02] <jcastro> why not just give that to greg instead of making something up
[17:09] <greg-g> yeah
[17:44] <nullspace> wait o'rielly has a social media service?
[17:47] <jrwren> pylint doesn't check anything wrt pep257. bummer.
[17:48] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but there's a module for it
[17:48] <rick_h_> https://github.com/GreenSteam/pep257
[17:50] <jrwren> ty
[17:50] <jrwren> listening to Kraftwerk discog chronologically, and amazed at how much music there is before their first singing.
[18:26] <snap-l> jrwren: The Man Machine is their first singing album irrc
[18:29] <jrwren> radioactivity ?
[18:30] <jrwren> well, I counted radioactivity, just given teh song radioactivity.
[18:33] <snap-l> well, autobahn has vocoder
[18:36] <jrwren> yeah, i wasn't counting it.
[18:36] <jrwren> i know, i should.
[18:37] <jrwren> fun fun fun
[18:56] <snap-l> http://profbanks.com/?p=585 <- per earlier convo
[19:00] <brousch> Ug, crazy day.
[19:00] <brousch> Someone take over for 20mins so I can nap
[19:04] <Blazeix> i've got it, you can go nap now.
[19:12] <brousch> Blazeix: You let 3 guys get past you. They asked me more questions.
[19:20] <jrwren> apport doesn't use http_proxy? LAME
[19:21] <jrwren> how many bugs does a guy have to file? :)
[19:32] <rick_h_> greg-g: best things ever fyi: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HN6CX8/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01
[19:36] <snap-l> This may be the greatest invention since sliced bread. I'm a knot expert and usually adjust guylines myself, but when it's pouring rain and the wind is blowing 40 mph sideways, these are the cat's ass. And, I guess what really makes me love them is the relatively low price for a great idea that works as advertised.
[19:37] <rick_h_> yea, I got two for this last camping trip. I bought four more and a new tarp after how well it worked out. The caribiner to clip on one end just works awesome
[19:37] <rick_h_> quick to adjust, etc
[19:37] <rick_h_> I am not a knot expert, I should learn some of those sometime for sure
[19:37] <rick_h_> and reflective lines ftw
[19:41] <jrwren> no surprise: when the Killing Joke album ended and kidneythieves started, it was pretty obvious
[19:41] <snap-l> jrwren: I had a similar experience
[19:41] <snap-l> when Ivan Ilic's album of piano stopped, it was pretty clear that Dead Kennedys was on.
[19:42] <jrwren> lol
[19:43] <snap-l> https://ting.com/blog/a-ting-device-update-here-now-coming-soon-and-beyond/
[20:01] <derekv> might not be able to make chc tonight.
[20:01] <rick_h_> boooooo!
[20:02] <derekv> we'll see
[20:02]  * rick_h_ releases the hounds
[20:03]  * derekv chases the hounds
[20:07] <snap-l> I program m home computer
[20:07] <snap-l> beam myself into the future
[20:07] <snap-l> n
[20:49] <jrwren> haha, finally have a kvm guest with a kvm kernel - /dev/vda for my virtio disk. rawk!
[21:29] <waldo323_> Blazeix, was that a plugin or config you have for your line numbers in vim?
[21:29] <greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, I've seen those in the stores and always really tempted, but since I didn't have anything that at the time needed to be tied down/whatever, I didn't get them. I should just get them for the car.
[21:30] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I used them on a tarp and they worked so well I just stocked up
[21:30] <greg-g> nicre
[21:30] <greg-g> -r
[21:33] <snap-l> waldo323_: It's built in
[21:33] <snap-l> set relnum
[21:33] <snap-l> sorry
[21:33] <snap-l> set relativenumber
[21:34] <snap-l> Blazeix: Also, do you have "set paste" running?
[21:34] <snap-l> well, not running, but acive?
[22:06] <Blazeix> snap-l: no, i don't use 'set paste'. I do have "set clipboard=unnamed" which seems to make copying/pasting in vim mostly work with the linux clipboards
[22:17] <snap-l> RIght, but I was wondering if that was causing your indenting issues.
[22:22] <rick_h_> woot http://yuilibrary.com/gallery/show/anim-morph