[00:00] <bluesabre> ochosi, GridCube: What about gecko-mediaplayer for streams?
[00:01] <GridCube> never heard of it
[00:01] <ochosi> bluesabre: we don't install mplayer by default
[00:01] <bluesabre> But would mplayer be lighter-weight than gnome dependencies?
[00:02] <bluesabre> (as far as parole vs totem that is)
[00:02] <ochosi> if option 1) is totem and option 2) is gstreamer+mplayer i'd go for option 3)
[00:02] <ochosi> :)
[00:02] <bluesabre> lol
[00:03] <ochosi> you know, shipping _two_ media player frameworks is not very sane
[00:03] <bluesabre> True
[00:03] <ochosi> either we switch to mplayer, then we should also kick parole
[00:03] <ochosi> or we look for a gstreamer based browser-plugin
[00:03] <bluesabre> How difficult is it to embed parole into the browser?  I saw a hack that embedded evince for pdf viewing into firefox a while back
[00:04] <ochosi> i dunno, parole's code is a bit messed up though
[00:04] <ochosi> i worked on it a bit today
[00:04] <ochosi> i mean my skillset is limited
[00:04] <bluesabre> Looong ago: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/03/get-embedded-pdf-files-in-firefox-36-4.html  Uses mplugger
[00:04] <ochosi> i mainly modified the UI for now
[00:04] <bluesabre> *mozplugger
[00:05] <ochosi> there was a parole-plugin for firefox
[00:05] <ochosi> it's either not packaged anymore because it doesn't work anymore or i dunno
[00:07] <ochosi> this is all i could find: http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/package/core/natty/universe/base/browser-plugin-parole
[00:07] <pleia2> I've never had very good luck with embedded players
[00:08] <bluesabre> Well, it still installs...
[00:09] <bluesabre> I wonder if it still works.
[00:09] <ochosi> quoted from the goodies page: "While it is already usuable the plugin is still fresh and needs more effort to make more stable."
[00:09] <ochosi> and the parole hasn't been maintained for at least a year or two
[00:13] <ochosi> bluesabre: sooo, does it still work?
[00:13] <bluesabre> Not having much luck in chrome at least
[00:14] <ochosi> the plugin is for gecko-based browsers though
[00:14] <ochosi> (chrome uses webkit)
[00:14] <ochosi> or wait, maybe it even uses something else based on webkit, not sure anymore
[00:15] <bluesabre> Doesn't look like it's working
[00:15] <bluesabre> I might try to compile against all the latest stuff later and try again
[00:16] <ochosi> the thing is:
[00:16] <ochosi> i was always in favor of replacing parole
[00:16] <ochosi> mainly because it's unmaintained
[00:16] <ochosi> but i haven't seen a convincing alternative yet
[00:16] <ochosi> it really is lightweight and fast
[00:16] <ochosi> and it has a UI (as opposed to mplayer)
[00:17] <bluesabre> You said it was all C, right?
[00:17] <ochosi> and it has much potential
[00:17] <ochosi> yeah
[00:17] <ochosi> the UI is in a very old glade version though
[00:17] <ochosi> (which sucks ass)
[00:17] <ochosi> i reworked it a bit today
[00:18] <bluesabre> You should create a test repo, maybe there is something that can be done for parole
[00:18] <bluesabre> Not a fan of C, but I do like lightweight things.
[00:19] <ochosi> well if you feel like writing a really dead-simple player in vala, i'll totally support you with all i have (which isn't much though)
[00:20] <bluesabre> I don't have much vala skill though :(
[00:20] <bluesabre> But that might be something to consider
[00:21] <ochosi> ok, well anything _but_ python then ;)
[00:21] <bluesabre> Yeah, I know
[00:21] <ochosi> or let's say: anything that makes for a really responsive and lightweight player
[00:21] <bluesabre> We might be able to steal something from audience
[00:21] <bluesabre> and get rid of the custom interface
[00:21] <ochosi> i'm wondering where audience is stolen from
[00:21] <bluesabre> lol
[00:21] <bluesabre> gotta go for now, be back later
[00:21] <ochosi> usually elementary guys borrow quite a bit :)
[00:21] <ochosi> although that might not be the case anymore
[00:22] <ochosi> yeah, just replace clutter with gtk3 and we can go with audience
[00:22] <ochosi> k, ttyl
[02:12] <bluesabre> ochosi: still around?
[02:12] <ochosi> yuo
[02:12] <ochosi> i'm still tweaking parole's UI :)
[02:13] <ochosi> i'm actually making good progress on this list: http://wiki.xfce.org/design/parole-ui
[02:13] <ochosi> in case you're wondering: i wrote it myself ;)
[02:14] <ochosi> i have items 2,3,6 and 7 pretty much done
[02:14] <ochosi> the others i won't be able to fix i guess
[02:16] <ochosi> bluesabre: ^
[02:16] <bluesabre> Cool
[02:17] <bluesabre> I might be able to help with some of the other things on that list
[02:20] <bluesabre> In fact, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be able to attain the mockup you provided
[02:21] <ochosi> i pushed things to a repo now btw
[02:22] <ochosi> unfortunately there's nothing set up in bzr
[02:22] <ochosi> and upstream uses git
[02:22] <ochosi> so i decided to use github for now
[02:22] <Unit193> Sweet, in shimmer?
[02:23] <ochosi> no, right now it's here: https://github.com/ochosi/Parole
[02:23] <bluesabre> cool
[02:23] <ochosi> bluesabre: i made you a "collaborator" in the project, i think that should give you commit/push rights
[02:23] <ochosi> if not let me know, then i have to take another look
[02:23] <bluesabre> alrighty
[02:24] <ochosi> btw, after having had a look at the code:
[02:24] <ochosi> the statusbar stuff is more tricky than i thought, because it also shows buffer-info
[02:24] <ochosi> we
[02:24] <ochosi> we'd have to think of a better way/place to show that if we want to drop the statusbar
[02:24] <ochosi> but maybe it's fine and we can keep it
[02:25] <ochosi> and only move the playing-position and duration next to the progress-scale
[02:27] <bluesabre> Ok
[02:29] <ochosi> i also updated the wikipage so we can keep a better overview over what's done
[02:30] <ochosi> next i'll try to do the gtkvolumebutton
[02:32] <bluesabre> sounds good
[02:33] <bluesabre> which, very conveniently has its own widget nowadays :D
[02:37] <ochosi> yup
[02:37] <ochosi> just need to adjust all the callbacks etc.
[02:40] <bluesabre> the parole developers sure did love HBoxes.
[02:53] <bluesabre> ochosi: Could we put buffering information in the titlebar as well?  It would rarely be used I would imagine, and only show when buffering was happening
[02:53] <bluesabre> somestream.wmv (Buffering 27%)
[02:53] <ochosi> it was only one developer :)
[02:53] <ochosi> well, that would mean we'd have to update the titlebar every second or so
[02:53] <ochosi> sounds costly to me
[02:54] <ochosi> i'd rather put it somewhere else
[02:54] <bluesabre> hmm
[02:54] <bluesabre> If you get any creative ideas, let me know :D
[02:55] <ochosi> ok :)
[02:55] <ochosi> btw, the volumebutton works
[02:55] <ochosi> but:
[02:55] <ochosi> i tried to set the "icon" property to "Button"
[02:56] <ochosi> because atm it uses menu-icon size
[02:56] <ochosi> (16px)
[02:56] <ochosi> which is particularly bad, because in elementary-xfce that's a white icon (for the dark panel)
[02:56] <ochosi> any ideas what i could be doing wrong there?
[02:56] <ochosi> <property name="size">Button</property>
[02:56] <ochosi> oh wait
[02:57] <ochosi> ok, i got it
[02:57] <ochosi> but why is it still using the white icon ... :(
[03:00] <bluesabre> dunno
[03:02] <bluesabre> At least in glade3 (gtk3), it looks like all the sizes use the white icon
[03:02] <bluesabre> Except for symbolic icons, which gtk2 lacks :(
[03:03] <ochosi> oh noes
[03:03] <ochosi> missing symlinks in elementary-xfce
[03:04] <bluesabre> Looks like its using:
[03:04] <bluesabre> audio-volume-muted
[03:04] <bluesabre> audio-volume-high
[03:04] <bluesabre> audio-volume-low
[03:04] <bluesabre> audio-volume-medium
[03:04] <ochosi> yeah
[03:04] <ochosi> strange
[03:04] <bluesabre> which I guess it's nabbing from panel..?
[03:04] <ochosi> we have those in 22px
[03:05] <ochosi> problem is, our index.theme sets the 22px icons to "fixed"
[03:06] <ochosi> so they won't be scaled
[03:06] <ochosi> actually i wonder whether we can drop all the audio-icons from the -dark theme that don't have the "-panel" suffix
[03:11] <ochosi> bluesabre: could you test what i've done so far?
[03:11] <ochosi> just to be sure it doesn't just work here...
[03:11] <bluesabre> Sure thing
[03:18] <bluesabre> Looks like it works for me
[03:18] <ochosi> sounds promising :)
[03:19] <bluesabre> I should be able to get the other things moved around.  Just not tonight.  It's too late to be staring at something non-python.  :-D  Probably work some magic tomorrow.
[03:20] <ochosi> hehe
[03:20] <ochosi> sure thing
[03:20] <ochosi> i actually stayed up far too late for this stuff now
[03:21] <ochosi> should get up in 5hrs :(
[03:21] <bluesabre> Ouch
[03:21] <bluesabre> Well, I'll be the first to give in.  Have a good night!
[03:21] <ochosi> well otoh i was waiting for so long for someone too change these small annoyances in parole that i'm incredibly happy i did it myself
[03:21] <ochosi> yeah, you too!
[09:07] <ochosi> knome: i most likely won'
[09:07] <ochosi> knome: t be able to make the meeting today
[09:14] <ochosi> hey astraljava 
[09:15] <astraljava> o/
[09:16] <ochosi> how's it goin?
[09:17] <astraljava> I'm at work, so... you figure it out. *smirk*
[09:18] <ochosi> hehe
[09:18] <ochosi> well at least you obviously have time to irc there
[09:18] <ochosi> can't be _that_ bad ;)
[09:18] <astraljava> No it's not _that_ bad.
[09:19] <ochosi> anyway, i won't be able to make the meeting today :(
[09:19] <astraljava> It's fine. Do you have anything to report?
[09:19] <ochosi> at least i fear i won't be
[09:20] <ochosi> yeah, that's why i wanted to talk to someone :)
[09:20] <astraljava> Ok, shoot.
[09:20] <ochosi> greybird and bluebird have been fixed (in git) for quantal
[09:20] <ochosi> there were obvious bugs with unico, now i'm again interested in feedback by testers :)
[09:20] <astraljava> Alright, sweet.
[09:20] <ochosi> i started to work on UI modifications of parole
[09:21] <ochosi> roadmap is here: http://wiki.xfce.org/design/parole-ui
[09:21] <ochosi> code is here: https://github.com/ochosi/Parole
[09:21] <astraljava> Nice.
[09:22] <ochosi> the next meeting will be my last until late august
[09:22] <ochosi> (holidays)
[09:22] <ochosi> hope i can make it then, in two weeks
[09:22] <astraljava> I can post these as #infos when it's your slot.
[09:23] <ochosi> yes, please do so
[09:23] <astraljava> Thanks for the updates!
[09:23] <ochosi> ppl should feel free to test the parole changes
[09:23] <astraljava> Wanna mail a call for it on the lists?
[09:24] <ochosi> it's as easy as "git clone ... && sudo apt-get build-dep parole && ./autogen.sh && make && ./src/parole"
[09:24] <ochosi> that's be too much i think, cause atm it's just UI changes
[09:24] <ochosi> it would be ludicrous if i break something with that :p
[09:24] <astraljava> Sure.
[09:24] <ochosi> otoh who knows...
[09:24] <astraljava> Yeah you never know. :)
[09:25] <ochosi> i think i'll send that call as soon as i'm at the more essential changes that include more code refactoring
[09:25] <astraljava> At least I'm so capable of introducing new bugs while fixing present ones...
[09:25] <ochosi> :)
[09:25] <ochosi> guess you haven't had time yet for the display dialog?
[09:26] <ochosi> oh also: i'll be away next week (sun to sat)
[09:26] <ochosi> probably here sometimes, but mostly not
[09:27] <astraljava> No, I needed to work on jussi's website last night.
[09:27] <ochosi> okeydokey
[09:27] <astraljava> I'll continue fighting with the desktop when I get home tonight.
[09:28] <ochosi> do you think you'll get the code push-able or test-able while i'm still around?
[09:28] <astraljava> Before Sunday?
[09:29] <astraljava> It's possible, depends on when I get that machine running.
[09:29] <ochosi> ok
[09:29] <ochosi> anyway, i'm off now. prolly be back later
[09:30] <astraljava> Ok, see ya.
[11:02] <bluesabre> ochosi: Small update, but the window title now displays the media name.
[11:18] <ochosi> bluesabre: oh great!
[11:21] <ochosi> bluesabre: then let's drop the window-title plugin
[11:23] <ochosi> (especially because it didn't work anyway)
[11:28] <ochosi> knome: we should test light-software-center soon
[11:40] <bluesabre> ochosi: Now duration is in the right place.  Haven't gotten elapsed time yet.  btw, what is light-software-center?  :)
[11:40] <ochosi> it's an alternative software center written in vala
[11:40] <ochosi> aimed to be simple and lightweight
[11:41] <bluesabre> neat
[11:42] <ochosi> hopefully :)
[11:42] <ochosi> then we could replace USC _and_ synaptic
[11:45] <hobgoblin> different than the loobylou one?
[11:45] <ochosi> hobgoblin: woot?
[11:45] <hobgoblin> or is it the same one?
[11:46] <ochosi> lubuntu software center you mean?
[11:46] <hobgoblin> yea
[11:46] <ochosi> well it's a rewrite of that, yeah
[11:46] <ochosi> but in vala
[11:46] <ochosi> i think lsc was in python or something
[11:46] <hobgoblin> right - thanks ochosi :)
[11:46] <hobgoblin> no idea - too close to voodoo for me :p
[11:46] <ochosi> also, light software center uses granite (elementary's widget library)
[11:47] <hobgoblin> I'd be happy to test it if it's needed - running 12.10 permanently now
[11:47] <ochosi> you would have to build it
[11:47] <ochosi> but if you could, that'd be great
[11:48] <hobgoblin> ok - I can do that - I am a helpful goblin when I can be :)
[11:48] <ochosi> hehe
[11:48] <ochosi> graet
[11:48] <hobgoblin> when it's ready to test let me know 
[11:49] <ochosi> i think it is
[11:49] <ochosi> i mean basically i don't know for sure
[11:49] <ochosi> that's why testing would be needed
[11:49] <ochosi> to see how far they've come
[11:49] <hobgoblin> k - point me at it and let me loose then :)
[11:50] <ochosi> bluesabre: say, why did you change so much in parole.ui in the last commit?
[11:50] <ochosi> bluesabre: i mean, what's the reason?
[11:50] <ochosi> (also: we should revert the size of the volume-button from large-toolbar to button)
[11:52] <ochosi> ok, pushed that change
[11:57] <ochosi> bluesabre: added another mockup for how i imagine streaming/buffering to look: http://wiki.xfce.org/design/parole-ui
[11:58] <ochosi> (in this case the scale-widget would also show the buffer-progress)
[12:04] <bluesabre> ah
[12:05] <bluesabre> We could show a progress bar there instead for buffering
[12:05] <bluesabre> since the user can't really adjust it
[12:05] <ochosi> we could. but i'm not sure we have to
[12:05] <ochosi> i mean the scale could work
[12:05] <ochosi> oh right
[12:05] <ochosi> yeah
[12:06] <bluesabre> or hide the adjustment
[12:06] <bluesabre> which i think is doable
[12:06] <ochosi> whichever is easier
[12:06] <ochosi> i'd be fine with either option
[12:07] <bluesabre> k, I'll tackle that today.  Heading to work now.  What time is the xubuntu-devel meeting?
[12:07] <ochosi> 15utc
[12:08] <bluesabre> Cool.  Thanks.  bbl
[13:13] <hobgoblin> ochosi: you mean this one? https://launchpad.net/light-software-center
[13:18] <bluesabre> ochosi: Progress and duration now work with the slider.
[13:30] <bluesabre> ochosi: And I think I'm close to having the buffering moved as well.
[13:30] <bluesabre> at which point, no more statusbar
[13:51] <bluesabre> Anybody know of a good stream that I can use to test parole and buffering?
[14:25] <bluesabre> ochosi: Well, since I didn'
[14:25] <bluesabre> t have any issues, I commited my changes.
[14:35] <knome> astraljava, going to be available on the meeting?
[14:41] <knome> Xubuntu community meeting in 30mins on #xubuntu-devel. Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings, everybody is welcome
[14:42] <knome> that is, 20mins.
[14:44] <ochosi> it looks like i'll actually be here
[14:44] <knome> heh
[14:44] <ochosi> bluesabre: great, pulling now
[14:44] <knome> good.
[14:44] <knome> i'm wondering if we have other attendees too
[14:44] <ochosi> astraljava should be there i guess
[14:45] <ochosi> at least i told him what do say on my behalf :)
[14:45] <bluesabre> ochosi: Working on the sidebar show/hide button now
[14:45] <ochosi> bluesabre: a-ha? what are you doing with that one?
[14:45] <ochosi> (i mean i already moved it to the menu)
[14:46] <bluesabre> oh
[14:46] <bluesabre> Still going off of this mockup
[14:46] <bluesabre> http://wiki.xfce.org/_detail/design/parole.png?id=design%3Aparole-ui
[14:46] <bluesabre> I'll stop :D
[14:47] <ochosi> no no, that's fine
[14:47] <ochosi> but i already moved the button
[14:47] <ochosi> if you look at the wiki-page, the item is striked through already
[14:47] <bluesabre> Indeed
[14:47] <ochosi> or at least i don't know what else to do with it
[14:47] <ochosi> we could also throw it into the context menu
[14:47] <ochosi> or make it a checkbutton
[14:47] <ochosi> at the moment it's a menu-item that gets updated labels
[14:48] <bluesabre> Right
[14:48] <ochosi> not very standard...
[14:52] <ochosi> bluesabre: looks fantastic!
[14:53] <ochosi> bluesabre: trying the streams now...
[14:53] <bluesabre> awesome
[14:53] <bluesabre> in theory, buffering progress _should_ work.
[14:55] <ochosi> ah
[14:55] <ochosi> i saw a progressbar pop out below the scale for a split-second
[14:55] <bluesabre> Woops, probably have the show and hide in the wrong order
[14:55] <bluesabre> easy fix
[14:55] <ochosi> hehe
[14:55] <ochosi> ok
[14:56] <bluesabre> Other than that, everything still works
[14:56] <bluesabre> ?
[14:56] <ochosi> the duration obviously doesn't make any sense there though
[14:56] <bluesabre> ?
[14:56] <bluesabre> Screenshot?
[14:56] <ochosi> oddly enough the theming of the scale seems broken
[14:57] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-07112012-045717pm.php
[14:57] <ochosi> duration is of the mp3 i played before
[14:57] <ochosi> (it's in the list on the right)
[14:57] <ochosi> and the scale-button is bright now, which is odd
[14:58] <ochosi> why did you add so much new properties to the parole.ui file again?
[14:59] <bluesabre> I didn't add too many new properties... mostly just expand/not expand and not show all for one thing
[14:59] <ochosi> (i get a lot of scale-related glib/gdk/gdkpixbuf errors, but i think at least most of them were there before)
[15:00] <bluesabre> Might be a problem with the gtk version defined by the glade file or something
[15:00] <ochosi> what does use_action_appearance do?
[15:00] <bluesabre> I have no idea.
[15:00] <ochosi> a-ha
[15:00] <ochosi> so you didn't add it consciously?
[15:01] <pleia2> meeting time?
[15:01] <knome> y!
[15:01] <knome> erm
[15:01] <knome> i'll visit the gents
[15:01] <knome> we can start after that, or feel free to go ahead already ;)
[15:01]  * pleia2 makes coffee
[15:02]  * ochosi is left all alone in the "meeting-room"
[15:03] <hobgoblin> is it lonely?
[15:03] <ochosi> totally
[15:03] <hobgoblin> :(
[15:04] <hobgoblin> get a sock puppet
[15:04] <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
[15:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 11 15:04:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:04] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:04] <knome> #chair ochosi astraljava pleia2 
[15:04] <meetingology> Current chairs: astraljava knome ochosi pleia2
[15:04] <knome> #topic Items carried on
[15:04] <knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
[15:05] <knome> pleia2, is your "review target audience" done?
[15:05] <knome> release notes are written, and bluesabre has been in contact with people via ML
[15:05] <pleia2> #info started review of target audience for marketing
[15:06] <knome> great! is there anything visible? ;)
[15:06] <pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing
[15:06] <pleia2> oh wait, it looks like my changes didn't save
[15:06] <knome> awwh
[15:06] <pleia2> (boo travel and unreliable wifi)
[15:07] <knome> well, i suppose you have it in your head, so we are able to access that data later :P
[15:07] <pleia2> #info changing the scope of that "Define the Xubuntu target audience" to be target /marketing/ audience, our actual target audience is defined in our strategy document
[15:07] <pleia2> yeah
[15:07] <pleia2> so I'll re-update in a bit :)
[15:07] <knome> great
[15:08] <knome> #subtopic Enable or disable compositor by default?
[15:08] <knome> astraljava, did you have some insight on this?
[15:08] <knome> there was a bug report or so...
[15:09] <knome> since janne has vanished, anybody else?
[15:10] <knome> allllllright.
[15:10] <ochosi> not sure
[15:10] <knome> :)
[15:10] <ochosi> i think ideally we should disable it by default in the live-session
[15:10] <ochosi> and enable it in the install
[15:11] <ochosi> although that might seem inconsistent
[15:11] <ochosi> but i think it does make some sense
[15:11] <knome> i don't know if/how that's possible technically
[15:11] <ochosi> should be possible, but i guess it would have to be discussed with our packagers
[15:11] <pleia2> I don't love that idea, we tend to tell people to use the livecd to test if it works and they like it
[15:11] <ochosi> true
[15:11] <knome> yes, that raises the question "if we don't need the compositor on live, ..."
[15:12] <knome> generally, i'm not a huge fan of the compositor
[15:12] <ochosi> but otoh you don't use the live-cd for a longer period
[15:12] <knome> that's not to say there is something wrong with it, i just personally prefer to disable the compositor, since i'm getting a bit more clean environment that way
[15:13] <knome> sure, i can't use translucent panels, but imo those are not obligatory
[15:13] <ochosi> yeah, we should ensure everything looks good without the compositor as well
[15:13] <ochosi> but in general the shadows help do distinguish windows
[15:13] <knome> is there *any* tests done with and without the compositor on, is there a notable speed difference?
[15:14] <knome> and/or does enabling the compositor mean you should have at least some "power" in your GC?
[15:15] <ochosi> xfwm4's compositor is really lean
[15:15] <ochosi> but of course there are "issues" with proprietary drivers
[15:15] <ochosi> in all fairness, all compositors have those issues
[15:16] <knome> and generally, this leads us to the question of how far are we willing to go to pursue lightweightness
[15:16] <ochosi> and in fact there is upstream work going on atm to reduce them (mostly video-tearing)
[15:16] <pleia2> fwiw, I don't use the compositor either
[15:16] <knome> in a way, i feel like that the compositor is a nice feature for those who want that extra bling, and because of that POV, i'm thinking "those who want it can enable it"
[15:16] <ochosi> pleia2: btw, i was mainly referring to switching the compositor off in the "install xubuntu" option, which only shows ubiquity
[15:17] <pleia2> ochosi: oh, gotcha
[15:17] <ochosi> and we should strive to improve that anyhow, because there are no panels
[15:17] <ochosi> but notifications about joining networks etc
[15:18] <knome> how many of the people around actually use the translucent panels, for example?
[15:18] <knome> i think that's the biggest thing, at least the most prominent change, if we decide to disable compositor by default
[15:18] <ochosi> for me it's mostly the shadows behind windows
[15:19] <ochosi> we're currently using translucency in a very conservative way, which i think is good
[15:19] <knome> bigger window borders would fix "not distinguishing windows" without the shadows ;]
[15:20] <ochosi> but really, this seems to be a bit of a different discussion (compositor on in general or not), i'd rather continue with the meeting, i don't have too much time right now
[15:20] <knome> yes, i don't want to push the translucency-button any further
[15:20] <ochosi> thanks
[15:20] <knome> i mean :D
[15:20] <knome> at least, let's not get any less conservative as we are now
[15:20] <knome> :P
[15:20] <knome> but we can continue the meeting too.
[15:20] <knome> #topic Team updates
[15:20] <knome> #subtopic Development
[15:20] <knome> mr_pouit, micahg, astraljava 
[15:22] <knome> moving on
[15:22] <knome> #subtopic QA
[15:22] <knome> astraljava, GridCube, Unit193, ?
[15:22] <knome> pleia2, ? :)
[15:22] <pleia2> nothing from me
[15:22] <pleia2> oh, we have a meeting coming up, QA-specific
[15:23] <pleia2> this Sunday at 16:00 UTC
[15:23] <knome> i assume somebody's going to announce it somewhere?
[15:23] <pleia2> yeah, astraljava should
[15:23] <knome> i mean, apart from this really quiet meeting
[15:24] <knome> #action astraljava to announce the QA meeting on sunday, 16utc to mailing list and other 'forums'
[15:24] <meetingology> ACTION: astraljava to announce the QA meeting on sunday, 16utc to mailing list and other 'forums'
[15:24] <knome> #subtopic Marketing, Promotion, Art
[15:24] <pleia2> I have many things :)
[15:24] <knome> ochosi, do i really need to highlight you? ;)
[15:25] <knome> pleia2, just go ahead, with #info & #action
[15:25] <pleia2> #info I contacted the owner of the most-maintained Facebook page about Xubuntu, and he agreed to let us make it the official one
[15:25] <pleia2> #link https://www.facebook.com/xubuntuusers
[15:25] <knome> i assume you're an admin now too?
[15:25] <pleia2> yep
[15:26] <knome> good :)
[15:26] <pleia2> so we should add it to the site now (I can do that)
[15:26] <knome> great, thanks
[15:26] <pleia2> I also wanted to say that it's been an exceptional experience approaching all these admins, google+, linkedin, facebook
[15:26] <pleia2> they've all been happy to add me as admin and excited about having their sites made official
[15:26] <knome> :)
[15:27] <knome> now that we're this far, i suppose it's not a bad idea to cover more social networks
[15:27] <pleia2> so I started writing a "thank you" blog post on my personal blog, should I keep this personal or maybe post it on xubuntu.org?
[15:27] <knome> at least if those groups already exist and we can just drop in
[15:27] <ochosi> i'm for the latter
[15:27] <knome> xubuntu.org definitely :)
[15:27] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to add Facebook page to website
[15:27] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to add Facebook page to website
[15:27] <knome> it's a thanks from the whole (dev) community
[15:28] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to draft "thank you" blog post to social media admins
[15:28] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to draft "thank you" blog post to social media admins
[15:28] <knome> also, another way to tell people that they can join/follow/like...
[15:28] <pleia2> yeah :)
[15:28] <pleia2> also, I'm doing a Xubuntu presentation on Saturday
[15:28] <knome> "now that we have done this really exhaustive taking-over..." ;)
[15:28] <pleia2> micahg and ochosi already reviewed, I merged their changes in: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xubuntu/xubuntu-feltonlug.pdf
[15:28] <pleia2> hehe
[15:29] <pleia2> in case anyone wants to review today
[15:29] <knome> what, can i ask questions too about xubuntu?
[15:29] <knome> though i'm not sure if even *200* slides would go in that case..
[15:29] <pleia2> no, you know everything
[15:29] <pleia2> but if there is anything I am obviously missing, comments welcome :)
[15:29] <knome> ok, i'll try to get around to reading it
[15:30] <knome> by when do you need feedbak?
[15:30] <knome> +c
[15:30] <pleia2> today would be preferred, I am starting to practice actually giving it
[15:30] <knome> ok
[15:30] <pleia2> thank you :)
[15:30] <pleia2> and finally...
[15:30] <knome> at least for the slide 16, mention (gtk3) updates for albatross and bluebird too :)
[15:31] <knome> aaand you lack ochosi from the reviwers ;)
[15:31] <pleia2> oh hm, I changed that to say "Xubuntu's default themes"
[15:31] <knome> ok
[15:31] <knome> :)
[15:31] <pleia2> that's odd, it uploaded but didn't seem to update the download
[15:31] <ochosi> yup, i already mentioned that in my review ;)
[15:31]  * pleia2 retries
[15:31] <pleia2> ok, try download again
[15:32] <pleia2> maybe sftp didn't auto-override the old file or something
[15:32] <knome> pleia2, in slide 9, maybe replace "background" with "wallpaper"
[15:32] <pleia2> #info I ordered a black t-shirt from zazzle.com with the design from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products#T-shirts (lack the ubuntu font though)
[15:32] <knome> pleia2, (and optionally add ", general appearance..."
[15:32] <knome> )
[15:32] <knome> awwh!
[15:32] <knome> pics?
[15:32] <pleia2> #info I'll report back on how it goes, they were having a sale so I figured I'd give it a try :)
[15:33] <knome> ah
[15:33] <knome> so it hasn't arrived yet ;)
[15:33] <pleia2> yeah
[15:33]  * ochosi goes to the loo for a sec
[15:33] <knome> pleia2, slide 11, first bullet "Join (#)xubuntu-devel mailing list and IRC channel"
[15:34] <pleia2> thanks
[15:34] <ochosi> re
[15:34] <knome> pleia2, and in pg 14 too, last bullet; background->wallpaper, and maybe sth like "for example"
[15:35] <ochosi> #info Albatross has been fully ported to Gtk3, it also has a metacity theme now and supports Unity
[15:35] <knome> \o/
[15:35] <ochosi> #action Shimmer-Team to write a blog-post about the Albatross progress
[15:35] <meetingology> ACTION: Shimmer-Team to write a blog-post about the Albatross progress
[15:35] <pleia2> ok, went with "Attend meetings to voice your opinion on proposed changes to artwork, wallpaper and other visual changes"
[15:35] <knome> #info Albatross xfwm-refresh is very much WIP...
[15:35] <pleia2> maybe visual elements
[15:36] <ochosi> #info ochosi is trying with the help of a new contributor to port Greybird to pure CSS (no more unico engine in Gtk3 hopefully)
[15:36] <knome> pleia2, pg17, 3. bull; "panel applets..."
[15:36] <ochosi> #info Some small bugs have been squashed in Bluebird and Greybird in Gtk3 for Quantal already, but we need more testing
[15:37] <ochosi> #info We also need more testing for missing icons
[15:37] <ochosi> that's about it from the artwork-side
[15:37] <knome> ochosi, can you follow-up on the icons with astraljava, so we could get a special mention for the rest of our 12.10 milestones? :)
[15:38] <ochosi> what do you mean exactly?
[15:39] <knome> pleia2, pg19, last bullet, please add a slash add the end of the line ;)
[15:39] <pleia2> hehe
[15:39] <knome> ochosi, we can tell our testers to look specifically at the icons
[15:40] <ochosi> i think the long-test already contains something like that
[15:40] <ochosi> i added it myself
[15:40] <knome> ok
[15:40] <knome> heh, fine...
[15:40] <ochosi> check point 11 here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Long
[15:40] <knome> since we're *kind of* changing our icon theme, maybe that could be a part of the short test for the 12.10 cycle
[15:41] <knome> anyway, i suppose that was it for the artwork
[15:41] <knome> #topic New and emerging items
[15:41] <knome> #subtopic BP: Add more launchers to Settings Manager 
[15:42] <knome> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-settings-manager-launchers
[15:42] <knome> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps
[15:42] <knome> Unit193, you around?
[15:43] <knome> ok, let's carry on
[15:43] <knome> #subtopic Encryption required for testing on milestones? 
[15:44] <knome> who added this? astraljava? :)
[15:44] <knome> or me...? :P
[15:45] <ochosi> look at the wiki-log?
[15:45] <knome> that's too long
[15:45] <knome> i suppose this means if we should have the encryption -testcase on milestones
[15:45] <knome> or, any other ideas what this could mean?
[15:46] <knome> (yes, i know i might've added this myself... ;))
[15:46] <knome> oh, no, that's astraljava 
[15:46] <knome> since he doesn't seem to be around, let's carry on :)
[15:46] <knome> #subtopic Testcases feedback
[15:46] <knome> astraljava's too, carry on...
[15:47] <knome> #subtopic Do we need screensaver by default or would a screenlock suffice?
[15:47] <pleia2> no screensaver
[15:47] <knome> +1
[15:47] <ochosi> +1
[15:47] <bluesabre> +1
[15:47] <knome> the default savers aren't very good looking anyway
[15:47] <knome> #agree Drop screensavers by default
[15:48] <pleia2> \o/
[15:48] <ochosi> great
[15:48] <bluesabre> no screensaver, but monitor power management enabled?
[15:48] <knome> bluesabre, sure.
[15:48] <knome> bluesabre, screensaver is just the visual thingy.
[15:48] <pleia2> yeah, I think we just set it to blank instead
[15:48] <bluesabre> Yeah, but I think the default settings don't power off the monitor
[15:49] <ochosi> we need a screenlocker though
[15:49] <ochosi> it actually is a planned feature of lightdm
[15:49] <ochosi> no clue what the progress is on that though
[15:49] <knome> #nick xubuntu-team
[15:49] <knome> #action xubuntu-team to investigate adding a screenlocker
[15:49] <meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to investigate adding a screenlocker
[15:50] <knome> #action xubuntu-team to investigate default settings for monitor power management
[15:50] <meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to investigate default settings for monitor power management
[15:50] <knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
[15:50] <knome> is there a milestone that requires us to have a meeting next week?
[15:50] <knome> apparently not
[15:51] <knome> no, wait
[15:52] <knome> we do
[15:53] <pleia2> yeah, next milestone in 2 weeks + 1 day
[15:53] <knome> #action knome to announce the next meeting, which will be held on 18th of July at #xubuntu-devel
[15:53] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to announce the next meeting, which will be held on 18th of July at #xubuntu-devel
[15:53] <knome> that date even made sense!
[15:53] <knome> #endmeeting
[15:53] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 11 15:53:46 2012 UTC.  
[15:53] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-07-11-15.04.moin.txt
[15:53] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-07-11-15.04.html
[15:53] <knome> tara
[15:53] <pleia2> ty
[15:54] <ochosi> thanks
[15:54] <knome> i'll set up the minutes later today, unless somebody wants to do that now?
[15:54] <knome> :P
[15:55] <pleia2> work time for me now
[15:55] <knome> hehe, yeah, i was waiting for the excuses!
[15:55] <knome> ,)
[15:55] <knome> np if you can't
[15:55] <pleia2> :)
[15:55] <knome> i'm off to think what to eat, see you later
[15:55] <pleia2> enjoy
[15:55] <knome> hehe, thanks
[15:56] <knome> i'll try to...
[15:56] <genii-around> Interesting to see the meeting bot in actual action. We are thinking to use it for our LoCo meetings.
[16:30] <knome> genii-around, i can recommend it; even if the output logs are not perfect -yet
[16:35] <genii-around> knome: I was playing with it a bit in #meetingology yesterday, trying to get the hang of how it works. JoseeAntonioR kind enough to assist some. I like it basically summarizes then you could always look at the full log if you want to see what everyone actually said in the channel, etc.
[16:36] <knome> yes, but of course, you need to use it correctly so it can give you the "minutes" ;)
[16:40] <genii-around> That's the tricky part, yeah. So it was good for me to see actual usage here
[16:40] <knome> glad that we could help :)
[17:47] <Unit193> knome: I am now. :P
[17:50] <knome> well, yeah ;)
[18:35] <micahg> knome: I should be able to make the meeting in future weeks
[19:31] <knome> micahg, great! :)
[19:32] <pleia2> oh right, added next one to calendar
[19:32] <pleia2> and facebook link is now on our site