[00:30] <robert_ancell> thumper, so is it normal for all my unity icons to have disappeared?
[00:37] <jbicha> chrisccoulson: I like the new "restart firefox" button, but...
[00:38] <jbicha> it doesn't stay on my screen very long, and I want to at least finish my apt-get upgrade first before restarting Firefox
[00:38] <jbicha> once it disappears, I don't see any way to get it back
[01:21] <thumper> robert_ancell: no
[02:14] <ceti331> can ubuntu's global-menu be made to show permanently
[02:14] <ceti331> instead of only when mouse hovers
[03:47] <ceti331> i'm trying to use kwin under ubuntu - nearly ok, but having trouble enabling desktops etc..
[03:48] <ceti331> should CCSM work, or is can KWin's native configuration editor be used
[03:53] <RAOF> You'd need kwin.
[03:54] <RAOF> But I'm not entirely sure why you wouldn't just install kubuntu-desktop; almost all the Ubuntu session is in compiz, anyway.
[03:59] <ceti331> ok doing so. for some reason i thought KDE was no longer supported in ubuntu repositories.i was surprised i could even install kwin
[03:59] <ceti331> i didn't really want to clutter menus with kde+gnome apps... but its not a bit problem
[03:59] <ceti331> i had kwin running fine.. i just couldn't change any options like desktops
[04:09] <hyperair> kubuntu's no longer funded by canonical, but that doesn't mean it's no longer supported.
[04:21] <pitti> Good morning
[04:29] <RAOF> Ah. I see that the amd64 buildds have a little bit of work to do :)
[04:29] <RAOF> pitti: Good morning!
[04:30] <pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
[04:30] <RAOF> I'm pretty good!
[04:30] <RAOF> The system compositor's now ready for your testing enjoyment*
[04:30] <RAOF> *: As long as you're on i386; amd64 is waiting to build
[04:31] <RAOF> Hows about your fine self?
[04:38] <pitti> RAOF: I'm quite fine, thanks! I hurt myself a little in yesterday's TKD training, but I hope that just reinforces the "don't do that then" learning process :)
[04:39] <RAOF> :)
[04:39] <pitti> (hitting my partner's elbow with my foot, not TKD at large, of course
[04:40] <RAOF> Ow. Hitting the hard bit :)
[04:40] <pitti> RAOF: do you need some build prio bumps?
[04:40] <RAOF> pitti: That'd be grand, thank you.
[04:40] <RAOF> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/system-compositor/+build/3650161
[04:42] <pitti> "Start in 35 seconds "
[04:42] <pitti> RAOF: right, I assumed so; it's just weston, right?
[04:42] <RAOF> Yup
[04:42] <RAOF> Oh? Last time I looked at it it was "start in 5 hours"
[04:43] <Sarvatt> RAOF: thank you so freaking much for getting mesa 8.1 in a somewhat buildable state btw :)
[04:44] <Sarvatt> i went through the diff and pilfered it for xorg-edgers
[04:44] <Sarvatt> also urgency=critical skips the queues :)
[04:44] <pitti> RAOF: 5 hours> that was before I bumped the score :)
[04:44] <RAOF> Heh.
[04:46] <TheMuso> RAOF: I saw your changes to the blueprint, but is radeon actually testable atm as well as nouveau?
[04:47] <RAOF> TheMuso: Depends on what you mean by ‘testable’. It *should* load; you may or may not get a wonderful pink screen, though. :)
[04:48] <TheMuso> RAOF: Ok, I'll make some time to test the hardware I have access to in the next few days.
[04:49] <RAOF> It will be a particularly fetching shade of fuscia if you get the all-pink version :)
[04:50] <TheMuso> Heh ok.
[05:04] <ceti331> is it possible to setup compiz 'rotate-cube' on a laptop to be triggeredby 'pivot' gesture (e.g. a 2finger rotate gesture distinct from scrolling gestures)
[05:06] <RAOF> Yes*
[05:06] <RAOF> *As long as you implement that
[05:08] <ceti331> "can you do this" "yes YOU can" ? :)
[05:09] <ceti331> really miss the 3 finger gestures on the mac... but it should be possible to extend linux to behave not too dis-similar
[05:10] <RAOF> ceti331: utouch is what you're after; Unity already implement some 3- and 4-finger gestures.
[05:10] <RAOF> Of course, you *also* need multitouch hardware, and basically only macs have decent multitouch hardware.
[05:10] <pitti> RAOF: all built and published; want me to try the new love again?
[05:10] <ceti331> thats what i'm begining to discover
[05:10] <ceti331> i think my hardware is 2finger
[05:11] <RAOF> pitti: Yeah, give it a whirl.
[05:11] <ceti331> thats why i thought rotate gesture would be nice ... i never rotate/zoom photos, but perhaps those gestures could be used to rotate/zoom the desktop :)
[05:12] <RAOF> ceti331: Hah! You think that "two finger" means that the hardware reports two independent touch points! How amusingly naieve :/.  No, your hardware probably doesn't report enough information to do that.
[05:12] <ceti331> <need to mod my laptop...embed an ipod touch...>
[05:12] <ceti331> RAOF- "device touches:2"
[05:13] <ceti331> RAOF: it does support2 finger scroll
[05:13] <RAOF> Probably means "I report 1 touch point, plus the fact that you have two fingers down"
[05:13] <ceti331> iss there a commandline debug app
[05:13] <RAOF> Because touchpads all uniformly suck.
[05:13] <ceti331> a commandline app that spews out raw info
[05:13] <RAOF> evtest
[05:14] <pitti> RAOF: btw, you might want to update the description for "dist-upgrade", otherwise it'll hold back lightdm and xserver-xorg-core
[05:14] <ceti331> is this a doomed quest
[05:14] <RAOF> pitti: Oh?  I habitually do dist-upgrade rather than upgrade, so I mustn't have noticed :)
[05:15] <pitti> RAOF: ok, I'll change it then :)
[05:15] <ceti331> heh oh well.. there's things in linux that i do like such as focus-follows-mouse and edge-warp
[05:15] <RAOF> pitti: I've just done it.
[05:15] <pitti> RAOF: yeah, upgrade is really not all that useful
[05:17] <ceti331> http://www.synaptics.com/solutions/technology/touchpad-linux
[05:18] <ceti331> maybe some hope... this synaptics page (i have a synaptics trackpad) does talk about 3fingers ... however, geisview says "2"
[05:23] <ceti331> evtest: its telling me the xserver has the device
[05:23] <ceti331> no its telling me "This device is grabbed by another process
[05:24] <ceti331> interestingly, it DOES say "event-code 333 BTL_TOOL_DOUBLETAP" and "Event Code 334 BTL_TOOL_TRIPPLETAP"
[05:28] <jbicha> RAOF: I got the pretty fuschia fun on Intel
[05:29] <RAOF> jbicha: Ooh, how much fuchsia? All fuchsia, or just down the right hand side?
[05:30] <jbicha> it's broke enough that I wasn't able to log into Unity, I did get gnome-classic-no-effects to work
[05:31] <jbicha> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1087377
[05:33] <jbicha> also, when I switch between a virtual terminal back to the GUI, a bunch of ~~~~~ is emitted
[05:35] <jbicha> maybe the fuschia I saw is that washed-out-unity-greeter bug since my wallpaper is just the Ubuntu default
[05:35] <ceti331> RAOF: ok, your pessimism is justified. It appears it reports 2,3 finger taps, but can't report 3 finger swipe. it can only report 1 or 2 fingers with movement
[05:35] <ceti331> it CAN however report 2 independant positions... thats something
[05:38] <pitti> RAOF: "go to town"?
[05:38]  * pitti googles English phrases
[05:38] <pitti> ah, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=go%20to%20town :)
[05:39] <ceti331> i must stop obsessing about this, i have a numerc keypad on this laptop.. pgup/pgdn, home,end
[05:52] <pitti> RAOF: I never considered myself being overly picky about visual design, but I do have some minor complaints about http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/weston.jpg
[05:53] <pitti> RAOF: I can't actually change the user there, and launching a guest session paints a barely noticeable and heavily condensed dark panel on top of lightdm
[05:53] <RAOF> pitti: Good, good. What driver's that?
[05:53] <pitti> RAOF: intel (Arrandale)
[05:53] <pitti> on a 1280x1024 DVI
[05:53] <RAOF> Hm. Ok.
[05:54] <pitti> did you see this before?
[05:54] <RAOF> No.
[05:54] <RAOF> Well, not exactly that.
[05:55] <RAOF> It looks like everything's in the wrong place, basically.
[05:55] <RAOF> Interesting logs are /var/log/lightdm/{weston.log,x-0.log}
[05:57] <pitti> hm, the recent x.logs there are from the run after stop lightdm/start lightdm which just left X completely broken
[05:57] <pitti> ah, X: ../../intel/intel_bufmgr_gem.c:2870: drm_intel_bufmgr_gem_init: Assertion `0' failed.
[05:57] <pitti> but that's not the one with the weird looking graphics
[05:58] <pitti> weston.log has a nice "caught segv" stack trace, though
[05:58] <pitti> RAOF: ok, I'll start it again and get you recent logs
[05:58] <RAOF> Well, *that's* not supposed to happen :)
[05:58] <didrocks> good morning
[05:58] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
[05:58] <didrocks> hey pitti, RAOF
[05:58] <RAOF> pitti: Ta muchly.
[05:58] <didrocks> pitti: ça va bien, et toi?
[06:01] <pitti> didrocks: je vais bien, merci!
[06:01] <pitti> didrocks: I love how unity has become a lot more efficient
[06:02] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, feeling the difference? :)
[06:02] <TheMuso> Same here, particularly the startup.
[06:02] <pitti> now that the launcher is behind all other windows anyway, it does away with the icons and just shows some small triangle on an otherwise pitch black launcher
[06:02] <didrocks> thanks to duflu :)
[06:02] <pitti> I guess that makes it quite a bit faster :)
[06:02] <didrocks> pitti: hum, the launcher behing all other windows?
[06:03] <pitti> ah, now it decided to come to the front
[06:03] <pitti> still empty, though
[06:03] <didrocks> no icon at all?
[06:03] <pitti> i. e. no icons nor icon containers
[06:03] <didrocks> urgh
[06:03] <pitti> just a semitransparent grey area with the triangles
[06:03] <didrocks> pitti: popey's team is taking care of unity, please ping him on #ubuntu-unity
[06:03] <didrocks> when he's here
[06:04] <didrocks> I saw someone else complaining about it on a bug mail
[06:04] <didrocks> so you are not alone :/
[06:04] <didrocks> didn't reproduce though
[06:04] <didrocks> still having a happy launcher with all its teeth/icons here
[06:05] <pitti> RAOF: to my untrained eye, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/weston.log looks fairly reasonable
[06:05] <pitti> RAOF: 1280x800 is the internal LVDS, and 1280x1024 the external DVI
[06:05] <pitti> RAOF: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/x-0.log, too
[06:07] <RAOF> pitti: It does indeed look sane; I guess that it's the multi-monitor bit that's confusing it.
[06:08] <pitti> if I can tell it somehow to ignore LVDS -- I don't care about this at all while it's docked, and my session startup script even xrandrs it off
[06:09] <RAOF> Not trivially, no.
[06:09] <RAOF> This needs fixing.
[07:42] <Nathan_S> Does anyone knows what modules do you need to import to make the clipboard work in gtk?
[07:42] <rickspencer3> pitti, any thoughts? he's using Python ^
[07:43] <rickspencer3> and please don't say "use pygtk ;)"
[07:45] <rickspencer3> didrocks, anyone?
[07:46] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[07:46] <rickspencer3> hey didrocks
[07:46] <rickspencer3> we're finding zero documentation on how to port clipboard code to gio :(
[07:47] <didrocks> http://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.org/en/latest/clipboard.html
[07:47] <didrocks> a pygi example ^
[07:48] <rickspencer3> Nathan_S, http://www.scribd.com/doc/99516129/66/Clipboard-Objects
[07:48] <didrocks> rickspencer3: it's the same content :p
[07:48] <rickspencer3> thanks didrocks
[07:48] <rickspencer3> you beat me to it :)
[07:48] <didrocks> http://python-gtk-3-tutorial.readthedocs.org/en/latest/index.html is a really good reference
[07:49] <didrocks> less good than pygtk tutorial, but already contains a lot, and is up to date :)
[07:49] <rickspencer3> oh my, it doesn't use any of the callbacks :(
[07:49] <rickspencer3> weak
[07:50] <pitti> Nathan_S: do you have a more concrete example what is not working?
[07:50] <didrocks> rickspencer3: you mean, callback from ClipboardWindow?
[07:50] <rickspencer3> didrocks, well, in C you can set_with_data, where you tell the clipboard "hey, I can give other apps this list of types of things to paste"
[07:50] <rickspencer3> and you give it a callback function
[07:51] <pitti> Gtk.Clipboard is supposed to be introspectable; it's not unlikely that there are bugs there, of course
[07:51] <rickspencer3> then when another app asks to paste, it calls your callback function and you figure out what kind of data the other app wants and paste it what it wants
[07:51] <rickspencer3> hey pitti
[07:51] <pitti> rickspencer3: so, no off-hand idea, I never tried using the clipboard (in any language)
[07:53] <didrocks> rickspencer3: doesn't seem to have any example of gtk_clipboard_request_image in pygi world. Should work like any other introspectable data as pitti tells (so clipboard.request_image()…) but not sure if Nathan_S can convert it himself :)
[07:54] <rickspencer3> didrocks, well, not all the functions are on the clipboard object
[07:55] <rickspencer3> notably,  set_with_data is missing
[07:57] <didrocks> rickspencer3: set_data ?
[07:58] <rickspencer3> didrocks, nope, that function is for setting the data that will get pasted
[07:58] <rickspencer3> it has set_text, set_image, and set_data
[07:58] <rickspencer3> set_text and set_image are just conveniences for set_data, set_data is flexible, you can put in whatever string you want
[07:59] <didrocks> weird, there are set_text and set_image, but not set_data in the gtk3 C documentation
[08:01] <didrocks> <method name="set_with_data"
[08:01] <didrocks>               c:identifier="gtk_clipboard_set_with_data"
[08:02] <didrocks>               introspectable="0">
[08:02] <didrocks> that's why it's not in ^
[08:02] <rickspencer3> wtf
[08:02] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[08:02] <rickspencer3> thanks didrocks
[08:02] <seb128> hey
[08:03] <rickspencer3> didrocks, that's too bad, because it really limits the copy functionality for an app
[08:04] <didrocks> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/gtk/gtkclipboard.c?id=374e76a19dac87676995356f6daacb10f4bb6e36
[08:04] <didrocks> that's the commit limiting it ^
[08:04] <didrocks> hey seb128
[08:04] <rickspencer3> didrocks, thanks a million for pointing to those Python gi tutorials
[08:04] <seb128> lut didrocks, ca va ?
[08:05] <didrocks> rickspencer3: yw ;) /me goes back to writing tests ;)
[08:05] <didrocks> seb128: ça va bien, et toi?
[08:05] <seb128> didrocks, ca va bien !
[08:12] <rickspencer3> wow, that was really annoying, on that note
[08:12]  * rickspencer3 gets some exercise
[09:47] <seb128> pitti, hey, do you remember who had the versions' script credential?
[09:47] <seb128> pitti, Robert sent me an email "
[09:47] <seb128> The versions script seems to have lost authorization to access LP - was
[09:47] <seb128> there a trick we did to give it access to a particular user?"
[09:48] <pitti> seb128: we can just delete and recreate it, I guess
[09:48] <pitti> but I wonder why it wouldn't work with anonymous
[09:48] <pitti> oh, for accessing the upload queue, I think
[09:49] <seb128> pitti, I don't remember the details now, but at some point we did hit an acl issue IIRC
[09:49] <seb128> pitti, recreate it ... do you remember what account we used? was that the same as the retracer ones? I think you did put the acl in place by then
[09:49] <pitti> seb128: I just used mine
[09:50] <seb128> pitti, ok, I guess I can do that as well ... I guess you need to run versions on your box and copy a file over, do you remember which one?
[09:50] <pitti> seb128: no, I run it on the remote box, and then just clicked on the link that lplib prints
[09:50] <pitti> auth in firefox
[09:50] <pitti> and then it should just work
[09:55] <seb128> pitti, ok
[09:55] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[09:58] <mhr3> seb128, do all of ubuntu's binaries have buildid?
[10:02] <Sweetshark> hi there
[10:02] <seb128> mhr3, what do you call "buildid"?
[10:02] <seb128> hey Sweetshark
[10:03] <mhr3> seb128, $ file `which gedit`
[10:03] <mhr3> /usr/bin/gedit: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.24, BuildID[sha1]=0x7253aee73f4f50cdf9331f1585c605b68ad6fe40, stripped
[10:03] <pitti> mhr3: I doubt it; it was introduced not too long ago, I figure many binaries don't yet
[10:04] <pitti> but I guess everything we actually care about (because we upload it often) does
[10:04] <mhr3> pitti, i see, and is there a simple-ish way to go from the buildid to package+version?
[10:05] <pitti> none that is known to me
[10:05] <mhr3> would be swell
[10:05] <pitti> we don't keep a record of package+version -> buildid
[10:05] <mhr3> building such db shouldn't be too big of an issue though
[10:05] <seb128> mhr3, what problem do you try to solve?
[10:06] <mhr3> but i'm just thinking out loud :)
[10:07]  * Sweetshark gets a hanging build on amd64 since of late, but I am not seeing that on my local pbuilder -- any hints what might be different?
[10:08] <seb128> not really...
[10:17]  * Sweetshark loves ddwrt.
[10:19] <seb128> Sweetshark, how is lo 3.6 to quantal going?
[10:22] <Sweetshark> seb128: i have this build hanging on amd64 in the subsequentcheck, which is new and only happens on the buildd. other than that its looking fine.
[10:23] <Sweetshark> seb128: the i386 build of beta3 finished in https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-quantaltest-20120601/+build/3648270 and I will test upgrade to that one in a VM today.
[10:24] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, great
[10:24] <Sweetshark> seb128: locally I am right now building 3.6.0~rc1 which was tagged yesterday.
[10:35] <jp_wanN> hey there, I recently read this document https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-system-compositor and now I want to try out using the new system compositor
[10:36] <jp_wanN> I've got nouveau, so that shouldn't be the problem. but could I get problems with the X-edgers ppa?
[10:41] <jp_wanN> I'll just try it, I'll reinstall my system in a few days anyway
[10:41] <jp_wanN> bye
[11:23] <didrocks> ok, session migration tool done, tests written for all modes \o/
[11:23] <didrocks> just need packaging now
[11:42] <seb128> didrocks, \o/
[12:47] <dobey> mvo: hey. why is software-center packaged without the "-0Ubuntu1" or even a "-1" but just the plain upstream version #?
[12:49] <Laney> it's a native package
[12:56] <dobey> Laney: right. but why is it built that way?
[12:57] <Laney> becaue an upstream release is a release into ubuntu, presumably
[13:00] <seb128> dobey, http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMentorsFaq#What_is_the_difference_between_a_native_Debian_package_and_a_non-native_package.3F
[13:00] <mlankhorst> getting a lot of practice with debian packaging now
[13:01] <seb128> dobey, but usually native packages are used for distro specific tools where people don't want to bother rolling upstream tarball (think ubiquity for example)
[13:01] <Laney> fakeroot mlankhorst clean
[13:04] <mterry> chrisccoulson, w000 congrats on the baby
[13:07] <seb128> Laney, btw I reconsidered a bit my position for the g-s-d and g-c-c updates I think
[13:08] <seb128> Laney, it seems easy enough to copy the ubuntu precise's code for the keyboard indicator to make an appindicator, I did a prototype in an hour yesterday, I didn't try to do a proper system indicator but it was working
[13:08] <desrt> hihi
[13:09] <seb128> Laney, so I think we can just get away with that
[13:09] <Laney> in a separate source?
[13:09] <seb128> Laney, I'm still unsure about the ibus GNOME crap though
[13:09] <seb128> and desrt "hihi" makes me want to reconsider :p
[13:09] <desrt> =)
[13:09] <seb128> I'm tired of GNOME being regression happy, I might jut suggest we stay one cycle behind starting next cycle in fact
[13:09] <Laney> why don't you start a discussion on the ml and see?
[13:10] <seb128> Laney, yeah, I'm trying to get a good view of where we stand before starting the discussion to help directing it ;-)
[13:10] <seb128> Laney, @separate source, no
[13:10] <desrt> seb128: i already told you the solution to this problem
[13:10] <seb128> desrt, hire 50 peoples to fix GNOME bugs
[13:11] <seb128> desrt, I'm not in charge of HR though :p
[13:11] <desrt> seb128: go on vacation
[13:11] <desrt> seb128: it'll be fixed when you get back :p
[13:11] <jbicha> lol
[13:11] <seb128> desrt, I doubt it
[13:11] <desrt> i don't
[13:11]  * desrt doesn't expect gnome .0 release that doesn't compile
[13:11] <seb128> desrt, there are still GNOME 3.4 annoying bugs and segfaults nobody care about, that quality issue is not going to magically solve itself
[13:12] <seb128> desrt, there are several aspect about that problem
[13:12] <seb128> desrt, they confirmed yesterday that 3.6 might have regression for some users
[13:12] <desrt> who are they?
[13:12] <seb128> desrt, the usual "let's rewrite, get 75% done, regress for 25%, and deal with those later"
[13:12] <seb128> desrt, release-team
[13:12] <desrt> cool
[13:12] <seb128> desrt, they had their meeting yesterday
[13:13] <seb128> desrt, btw they skept the nautilus discussion and the "what is GNOME"
[13:13] <mlankhorst> Laney: well I don't use fakeroot directly, just updating all the X packages for x 1.13
[13:13] <seb128> desrt, I'm very disappointed :-(
[13:13] <desrt> seb128: skipped?
[13:13] <seb128> yes
[13:13] <seb128> sorry :p
[13:13] <desrt> as in, they'll have it next meeting?
[13:13] <seb128> desrt, they just went through the non controversial features
[13:13] <seb128> desrt, they said "let's discuss it on the lists"
[13:14] <desrt> lovely
[13:14] <seb128> desrt, let's see how that goes, everybody loves list discussions :p
[13:14]  * desrt will have some interesting talks today, surely
[13:14] <desrt> seb128: where do they publish the minutes?
[13:14] <seb128> desrt, I don't know, I joined the channel to follow the meeting since I was interested in it
[13:14] <desrt> oh
[13:14] <desrt> i didn't know that was permitted
[13:15] <desrt> do you have a log?
[13:15] <seb128> desrt, people.canonical.com/~seb128/GimpNet-%23release-team.log
[13:16] <seb128> you can add http:// in front
[13:16] <desrt> seb128: this is in french!
[13:16] <Laney> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2012-July/msg00030.html
[13:16] <desrt> seb128: in any case, i'm not too surprised
[13:16] <desrt> seb128: the release team is not a political organisation
[13:17] <desrt> i want them to be more political, but the fact is that they're not
[13:18] <seb128> right, the minutes have
[13:18] <seb128> "
[13:18] <seb128> Recent discussions about Nautilus
[13:18] <seb128> [13:18] <seb128> We'll talk about it on the mailing list. jjardon will send an email."
[13:18] <seb128> they don't mention the "what is GNOME"
[13:19] <seb128> they also didn't tool an official stance on gstreamer1 one, shrug :-(
[13:26] <seb128> desrt, shrug, that's another thing I don't like about GNOME atm
[13:27] <seb128> desrt, cf #gnome-hackers, nobody is able to tell you if GNOME 3.6 will use gstreamer0.10 or 1.0 or both
[13:27] <seb128> desrt, it's like "whatever we will ship whatever we get"
[13:27] <desrt> seb128: seems that the answer is 1.0
[13:27] <desrt> 09:23 < fredp> all signs indicate they will be ported.
[13:27] <desrt> yes, there is a possibility that it won't happen on time
[13:27] <desrt> but what do you expect?
[13:28] <desrt> this is software -- and much of it developed by volunteers, no less
[13:29] <desrt> and all of it with loose coordination
[13:29] <desrt> you're not going to get a better answer than "we'll try our best"
[13:29] <seb128> desrt, it would help to state intentions clearly, rather than waving hands and seeing "yeah, it looks like it might happen"
[13:29] <desrt> it seems like you want "it will happen, or we will punish those who are at fault"
[13:29] <seb128> desrt, nobody is saying "we will try", people just say "it seems people are working on that"
[13:30] <desrt> seb128: it's a gnome goal and they're sending an announcement to ask people to port their modules
[13:30] <seb128> desrt, like Ubuntu stated python3 only for this cycle, we might not get to it but we made it a clear public stated goal for the cycle
[13:30] <desrt> i'm not sure what else they could do?
[13:31] <seb128> desrt, let's not start on a such discussion today ;-)
[13:31] <desrt> i keep my statements about your vacation :)
[13:32] <seb128> desrt, I'm leaning on the "we should stay one release behind because there is just too much flux an bugs and uncertainty in GNOME unstable cycles"
[13:32] <desrt> there is not enough here to be getting stressed over
[13:32] <seb128> desrt, but I will push for that next cycle
[13:32] <seb128> so we have time for discussion
[13:32] <desrt> seb128: i will be there to fight you, of course :)
[13:32] <seb128> good ;-)
[13:33] <seb128> desrt, but I don't think you have strong arguments, you most summarized it "this is software -- and much of it developed by volunteers, no less and all of it with loose coordination"
[13:33] <seb128> desrt, which seems incompatible with our goals in Ubuntu about no regression, quality, etc
[13:33] <seb128> like for what we want I think it really makes sense to be one cycle behind and focus on fixing bugs
[13:33] <desrt> seb128: it seems that every cycle you're having worries and in the end things work out mostly okay
[13:34] <seb128> desrt, no they don't, we have a nightmare unstable cycle trying to keep up with regression to just reach "ok" quality at the end of the cycle
[13:34] <desrt> i don't think the quality of precise substantially suffered as a result of gnome upstream not taking quality seriously
[13:34] <seb128> desrt, when we don't finish with big revert patches and breaking gnome-shell
[13:34] <desrt> seb128: those big-revert patches are hardly gnome's fault
[13:35] <seb128> desrt, I'm not saying there is only GNOME at fault, but keeping up with the bugs and regression from the unstable cycle let us no time to deal with the integration issues like that
[13:35] <desrt> it's my understanding that compiz will be properly up to snuff this cycle
[13:35] <desrt> so we can stop mega-reverting all the gsettings stuff
[13:38] <seb128> desrt, I'm about the mega reverting the ibus stuff :-(
[13:38] <desrt> you're right.  we should stop talking about this :)
[13:45] <chrisccoulson> mterry, thanks :)
[13:49] <desrt> seb128: i went and did some research on the ibus issue
[13:49] <desrt> seb128: the patch is 2 lines and upstream has already agreed to take it
[13:50] <desrt> the maintainer was on vacation until yesterday which is why it seemed like there was no progress
[13:50] <seb128> desrt, what patch, the new minimal approch, or the "let's do dbus activation and async calls"
[13:50] <desrt> the one allowing for dbus activation
[13:51] <desrt> it's just one function call: ibus now acquires a bus name on startup
[13:51] <desrt> so now it can be bus-activated on that name (and gnome provides the service file)
[13:51] <desrt> it's a bit weird that the service file gets to be separate...
[13:51] <seb128> desrt, GimpNet-#control-center.log:juil. 11 18:51:40 <rtcm>	hadess: yes, the ibus maintainer didn't like the patches much, although I'm still going to try and convince him because it really is the most elegant way
[13:51] <seb128> desrt, that was the discussion from yesterday
[13:52] <seb128> desrt, I think you just looked at the "let's do it in hackish way until the reach patches get reviewed" ones
[13:52] <desrt> seb128: i'm looking at http://code.google.com/p/ibus/issues/detail?id=1476#c5
[13:52] <desrt> looks like everyone gets what they need
[13:53] <seb128> desrt, anyway it's not really revelant to the discussion
[13:53] <seb128> it's one of the things on the list and the one that concerns me least
[13:53] <desrt> i thought you were worried about ibus
[13:53] <desrt> well, it's one more thing you can take off your list
[13:54] <seb128> desrt, I'm worried that they dropped the gtkstatusicon and regressed for non gnome-shell session in 3.5.2 (and probably gnome-shell) as well before getting anything in place
[13:54] <seb128> desrt, I'm worried that they said they might not have time this cycle to bring back a solution for non shell sessions
[13:54] <desrt> seb128: maybe we could help
[13:55] <seb128> desrt, I'm worried that the ibus way has feature regressions or lacks we don't know about because none of us use those input methods
[13:55] <desrt> seb128: afaik this is only about configuration... we're not actually changing how the input methods work
[13:55] <seb128> desrt, and that we (desktop team, unity team) will get in trouble because it turns to be an issue for $oem at release time that we didn't detect
[13:55] <seb128> desrt, well, libgnomekbd and libxklavier got dropped, and ibus is used for keyboard layout and input methods at the same time
[13:56] <seb128> desrt, some people on d-d-l seems concerned that this integration also means you can't anymore use other input framework and it seems in some cases it's needed because ibus doesn't cover everything
[13:57] <desrt> seb128: the feature page mentions that you could disable the g-s-d backend in that case
[13:57] <seb128> desrt, there is just lot of uncertainty there and I've not enough clue about the domain to guaranty we will not regress in something that is important
[13:58] <seb128> desrt, right, mclasen pointed to rtcm that disabling the plugin would disable any keyboard integration, including stuff like compose key handling, numlock status, delay, sticky keys, etc
[13:58] <seb128> desrt, so that's far from ideal
[14:03] <bcurtiswx> is it just me or are the repos slow lately
[14:03] <bcurtiswx> my apt-get upgrade is taking a long time
[14:05] <seb128> bcurtiswx, try another mirror?
[14:06] <micahg> seb128: about the indicator-session bug, I"m not sure how to debug
[14:06] <bcurtiswx> seb128, us and main have been slow lately
[14:06] <micahg> it seems like I have a 50/50 chance of hitting it on reboot
[14:07] <seb128> micahg, printfs in the code? ;-)
[14:07] <micahg> seb128: ah, you mean programmer level debugging :)
[14:08] <micahg> seb128: ok, will try to get to it at some point
[14:08] <seb128> micahg, thanks
[14:09] <micahg> seb128: it's annoying because it causes lightdm to delay when the screen is locked by about a minute
[14:11] <seb128> micahg, there must be something special about your setup
[14:11] <seb128> micahg, we got a bug like that in the past when there was > 8 users but that got fixed
[14:11] <seb128> micahg, do you have a crazy number of users or something?
[14:12] <micahg> well, it was a system76 preinstall upgraded from maverick -> natty -> oneiric -> precise
[14:12] <micahg> which should certainly be supported, the other weird thing is I have xubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop installed as well, but I'm running in unity-2d
[14:12] <bcurtiswx> micahg, theres no way anything went wrong with those upgrades! ;)
[14:15] <micahg> bcurtiswx: of course not, our release upgrades are perfect, that's why everyone can upgrade to the LTS at release...oh..wait a minute :), what's this 12.04.1 :)
[14:20] <micahg> seb128: when is 12.04.1 freeze?
[14:21] <seb128> micahg, end of july
[14:21] <micahg> seb128: as in Jul 26 or Jul 31 :)
[14:22] <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
[14:22] <Laney> has the dates
[14:23] <micahg> ah,was looking at the release schedule page, right, the interlock
[14:24] <micahg> ooh, even better, final freeze is Aug 16
[14:24] <seb128> micahg, like august 3
[14:24] <seb128> micahg, oh, sorry, yeah I was speaking about "desktop freeze", like for unity, libs, etc
[14:25] <seb128> micahg, the first half of august will be to get everything to settle down
[14:25] <micahg> seb128: well, I'm hoping this is bug fix level though, but yeah, I can hopefully find time before the end of the month to poke a little (don't know if that'll be enough though)
[14:44] <seb128> didrocks, mterry: is bug #949575 good to go? i.e just waiting on something to pull the package in main?
[14:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 949575 in gtest "[MIR] gtest" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/949575
[14:45] <mterry> seb128, yeah it just had the wrong status
[14:45] <seb128> mterry, ok, thanks
[14:46] <didrocks> I had concerned about the "well maintained in debian" as we needed newer version and last time I checked, we were not in sync
[14:46] <didrocks> but I think it's ok for a testing tool :)
[14:51] <mpt> didrocks, hey, got a few minutes to talk about the upgrading user configuration again?
[14:55] <didrocks> mpt: hum, I'm about to have a hangout right now for an hour. I'm free afterwards
[14:55] <mpt> didrocks, ok, let's do it tomorrow
[14:57] <didrocks> mpt: sure
[17:01] <dupondje> seb128, or anyone else knowing this: the slider issue (do to hack removed in GTK+) is still affecting volume slider in g-c-c, this will get fixed soon or? :)
[17:05] <seb128> dupondje, that seems a pretty minor issue, it will be solved, the g-c-c update is blocked on compiz-gsettings to land and a few other things
[17:06] <dupondje> it is :) just needs to get fixed before october :D
[17:06] <bcurtiswx> how do most of you setup, Precise installed, Quantal VM? Quantal Installed, Precise VM? etc..?
[17:08] <seb128> bcurtiswx, multiple machines and pbuilders
[17:08] <dupondje> I'm just running quantal on my laptop :)
[17:09] <seb128> I'm working on the LTS .1 so still on precise atm
[17:09] <seb128> but usually I upgrade my work machine to the current unstable serie
[17:09] <seb128> and let my old laptop to stable
[17:09] <seb128> and I've a netbook I use for test installs and other stuff
[17:09] <seb128> vms work as well though ;-)
[17:10] <bcurtiswx> hmm, i have a 32GB flash drive USB3 that i'm buying. Is that enough to test Quantal builds on? or not recommended
[17:27] <didrocks> waow, my tests are failing when building the package, I can see no link with what is happening :)
[17:32] <didrocks> ok got it
[17:32]  * didrocks huges his testsuite
[17:33] <didrocks> so, the gboolean, when building manually (even using cmake) the source is always set to "FALSE" by default
[17:33] <didrocks> but, in the packaging environment (bzr bd), it's TRUE
[18:00]  * didrocks waves good evening
[18:58] <micahg> hi kenvandine, just wondering how you got a source package for chromium :)
[18:58] <kenvandine> a slight fix/hack for chromium-translation-tools from alex-abreu_
[18:59] <kenvandine> he is still fixing it, but will propose a branch soon
[18:59] <micahg> kenvandine: ok, great
[18:59] <kenvandine> the problem was upstream changed the xml a bit
[19:00] <micahg> kenvandine: BTW, we can't use libvpx-dev in the stable releases FWIW, so that should be reverted in the future, also why is subversion a build dep?
[19:00] <micahg> kenvandine: BTW, thanks for getting this all sorted
[19:00] <kenvandine> micahg, something in the build process runs svnversion
[19:00] <kenvandine> debian added that too
[19:01] <kenvandine> ok, we'll have to figure out how we can remove libvpx-dev
[19:01] <micahg> kenvandine: orly?  that sounds wrong...but ok, about libvpx-dev, there's a flag that was set in debian/rules to use the bundled version
[19:02] <kenvandine> ok, i'll investigate that
[19:02] <micahg> kenvandine: I'll merge everything in next week either when I pilot or later
[19:02] <kenvandine> cool
[19:02] <micahg> kenvandine: please propose merges with the changes
[19:02] <kenvandine> micahg, i did :)
[19:02] <micahg> kenvandine: thanks, I saw one, maybe my e-mail is just behind
[19:02] <kenvandine> micahg, no... it's the same branch so the MP just updated
[19:03] <micahg> ah, ok
[19:03] <kenvandine> at least we are current now :)
[19:03] <kenvandine> and it builds on all arches :-D
[19:03] <micahg> kenvandine: powerpc too?
[19:03] <kenvandine> oh... not sure about that
[19:03] <kenvandine> the PPA i was using didn't have powerpc
[19:03] <kenvandine> but armel and armhf :-p
[19:03] <micahg> ok, well, don't worry about that, it doesn't work in Debian either
[19:04] <micahg> that's great news, awesome work
[19:07] <kenvandine> micahg, thx
[19:26] <seb128> mterry, still there?
[19:27] <mterry> seb128, yup
[19:27] <seb128> mterry, bug #981062
[19:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981062 in libgphoto2 "gphoto fails to download image from camera" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981062
[19:27] <seb128> mterry, the changelog lacks a # between "lp: " and the bug number
[19:28] <mterry> seb128, guh, didn't notice
[19:28] <seb128> mterry, which means the bug is not listed as fixed which will screw the SRU tracking
[19:28] <seb128> mterry, can you fix it or do you want me to do it?
[19:28] <mterry> seb128, I can.  I believe that I don't have to bump the version, right?
[19:28] <seb128> mterry, just reupload, I'm rejecting the one in the queue
[19:29] <seb128> mterry, so yeah, you can reuse the same number, the queue doesn't care, you can have the same version uploaded 5 times
[19:29] <mterry> fancy
[19:29] <seb128> mterry, which is a bit annoying because it means that during freeze times you might not notice a conflict in uploads
[19:31] <seb128> mterry, btw in case you are not totally done with sponsoring, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udisks/+bug/1022497 seems easy and is coming from the hw-enablement guys
[19:31] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1022497 in udisks "udisks does not support Realtek rts5992 SD/MMC card readers." [Undecided,New]
[19:32] <mterry> seb128, fixed, thanks
[19:32] <seb128> mterry, thanks ;-)
[19:32] <mterry> seb128, oh, OK.  I can pick it up
[19:32] <seb128> mterry, thanks a lot ;-)
[19:32] <mterry> seb128, thanks for the catch
[19:32] <seb128> no worry
[19:32] <seb128> I will not push my luck further but annoy the next pilot :p
[19:33] <seb128> RAOF, hey, I see you pilot tomorrow, bug #1014460 might be nice to get it, pitti acked it as a good solution for a SRU and the hw-enablement guys care about it
[19:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1014460 in udev "Touchpad sometimes not working upon system startup" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014460
[19:34] <seb128> kenvandine, if you ever get to upload chromium again please look at https://code.launchpad.net/~matttbe/chromium-browser/lp1013171/+merge/113055
[19:35] <seb128> kenvandine, it's a python3 fix for the apport hook
[19:35] <kenvandine> ok
[19:35] <kenvandine> :)
[19:35] <seb128> kenvandine, shame we missed that upload you just did ;-)
[19:36] <kenvandine> i'll probably do another one soon dropping the libvpx deb
[19:36] <kenvandine> s/deb/dep
[19:39] <seb128> kenvandine, great ;-)
[19:53] <dobey> is "screen blanking" on quantal supposed to just show a big grey rectangle as my screen?
[19:54] <mterry> pitti, is udisks going to be updated again for quantal?
[19:55] <seb128> dobey, no, what gnome-screensaver version do you use?
[19:55] <seb128> mterry, he's likely after eod, I'm sure he will be happy to get a fix in debian so we can sync if that's the question
[19:55] <seb128> mterry, especially that the coming debian release will use udisk1
[19:56] <mterry> seb128, yeah, just curious what the eta was
[19:56] <dobey> seb128: 3.4.1-0ubuntu3 is what is installed
[19:56] <seb128> mterry, likely "when there is a change requiring an upload"
[19:56] <seb128> dobey, hum, k, 3.4.2 has issues like that with our theme but didn't get uploaded, so your issue is not known
[19:57] <mterry> seb128, uploaded, with comment in bug
[19:57] <seb128> mterry, thanks!
[19:58] <dobey> seb128: hrmm. this  is a clean quantal install (i just installed it yesterday), though i copied my home directory back in from the previous install. and right now updating it is hosed due to python3 postinst breakage
[20:03] <jbicha> dobey: I get the grey/white screen-blank on screen lock too for a second or two before it shows the normal lock screen
[20:03] <jbicha> on quantal
[20:03] <dobey> jbicha: by normal lock screen you mean the unlock dialog?
[20:04] <jbicha> yeah, so it's more than a second or two
[20:05] <dobey> jbicha: this is showing me the grey when unlock dialog isn't shown (and shouldn't be). if it times out, it just goes all grey
[20:06] <jbicha> right, same here
[20:15] <dobey> jbicha: and you have the 3.4.1 package, not 3.4.2 right?
[20:18] <ricotz> dobey, this seems to be problem related to gnome-shell which gets fixed with gnome-screensaver 3.4.2
[20:18] <dobey> ricotz: this is under unity, not gnome-shell, where i'm seeing the problem
[20:20] <ricotz> dobey, ok, this is actually gnome-screensaver issue using gtk3 wrong
[20:20] <dobey> ok
[20:20] <dobey> well as long as i'm not the only one seeing it :)
[20:21] <ricotz> dobey, you can update to 3.4.2, but it is suppose to create issues with unity/light-themes afaik
[20:22] <dobey> ricotz: well i can't really update anything right now
[20:22] <dobey> python3 has foobared apt
[20:23] <dobey> anyway
[20:23] <ricotz> huh, apt isnt using python
[20:24] <mdeslaur> my quantal VM broke while updating also...the python3 package won't configure
[20:24] <jbicha> dobey: yeah 3.4.1-0ubuntu4
[20:24] <dobey> ricotz: no, it's failing to install it
[20:25] <dobey> ricotz: the postinst is broken, so lots of packages are left unconfigured at the moment as a result
[20:25] <ricotz> hmm, didnt notice anything failing to install here
[20:26] <ricotz> dobey, python3 3.2.3-2 ?
[20:26] <dobey> ricotz: yes
[20:26] <ricotz> is installed fine here
[20:26] <dobey> well lucky you then :)
[20:27] <ricotz> is probably triggered by some other python package
[20:28] <dobey> rtupdate postinst for python3 seems to be calling py3clean with wrong args