/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/07/12/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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* skaet waves13:58
stokachuo/14:00
* stgraber waves14:00
stgraber#startmeeting 12.04.1 team meeting14:00
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Jul 12 14:00:40 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.14:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired14:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:
jamespageo/14:00
argeso\14:00
argeso/14:00
stokachudid you just hi-five yourself14:01
argesstokachu, yes you win14:01
stgraber;)14:01
stokachulol14:01
stgraber#topic Action items review14:01
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic: Action items review
stgraberarges to work on a 12.04.1 bug report, showing targeted bugs and information on status in development release, patches attached and branches linked14:01
argeshttp://people.canonical.com/~arges/point-release/milestone-12.04.1.html14:02
argesWe can still fix if needed, but have it ready. I've proposed a merge for the code into the Arsenal project so anyone can look at it. (Patches welcome)14:02
argesThe code is here for now:14:03
argeshttps://code.launchpad.net/~christopherarges/arsenal/arsenal14:03
arges..14:03
stgraberwhat are the current criteria for a bug to show up on the list? (total bugs: 57 vs 112 in my current list)14:04
argesstgraber, targeted to 12.04.1 && status is  ["New", "Confirmed", "Triaged", "In Progress", "Fix Committed"]14:04
argesand targed to precise14:04
smosero/14:05
stgrabersmoser: go14:05
stokachulol14:05
smoseri was a bit confused.14:06
stgrabersmoser: or was that just a "I'm around o/" ? :)14:06
smoseri'm around.14:06
smoseryeah.14:06
stgraberok :)14:06
* smoser wipes forehead. whew!14:06
skaetlooks good arges.   Will do some correlations with the other data sources.  :)14:07
stgraberarges: odd, it doesn't match my LP search but I can't really tell which of my LP search or the arsenal report is wrong to be honnest ;)14:07
stokachulooks like several are missing tags14:07
* skaet is a bit worried about bug 101700114:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/101700114:07
stokachui see a bunch with fix committed but no verification needed14:07
argesI'll work on it and make it more accurate. but for the time being hopefully it can still be useful14:07
argesin addition, where should I host it?14:08
argesright now its just generated on my desktop here14:08
stokachugeocities.com14:08
stgraberstokachu: I'll try and take a pass through all the bugs, fix them where needed... I'm guessing some are marked fix commited but haven't actually been uploaded yet...14:08
stokachuarges: canonistack14:08
stokachustgraber: ok14:08
skaetstokachu,  I think the columns need to be switched to make it more intuitive.  (Verification Needed before Verification Done).   Is that the source of confusion?14:08
stokachuskaet: ah14:09
stokachuskaet: yea that does make more sense14:09
skaet:)14:09
stokachuhaha14:09
argesi can switch them14:09
stokachurunning off fumes this morning14:09
argesI wanted to sort them by 'most actionable items' on top14:09
argesso if it has the patch and the verification is done and there are lots of branches linked, then its on the top14:09
stokachuive been linking related branches of merge proposals14:10
stokachuis there a way to tell a difference?14:10
skaetclicking the column headers works for resorting ...  :)  hence me finding that critical that looks like its stalling out.14:10
stgraberarges: you should be able to run the report on lillypilly initially, though it should then be moved to reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports with the others14:10
stokachuthat could be a +1 for patch column14:10
argesstokachu, what do you mean?14:11
argesstgraber, ok14:11
stokachuarges: can you tell ifa related branch is a merge proposal or not14:12
stokachurather than seeing if an attachment is set to patch14:12
stokachuyou could set to 'has patch' if no attachment but there is a merge proposal14:12
argesstokachu, yea right now the logic is patch_attached || patch tag14:13
argesanyway. there are a lot of comments. so maybe I can summarize some actions for the next few weeks to work on this14:14
arges- Verify this matches the list on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.04.114:14
arges- Get this hosted on lillypilly or another machine.14:14
arges- Switch the Verification Done/Needed columns?14:14
argesWhat else?14:15
stgraberyou may also want to check for verification-needed-precise/verification-done-precise14:15
argesstgraber, yes I do that as well14:15
stgrabercool! I wish all our other reports did :)14:16
skaetlooks like a good summary for now to me....  I suspect that after we start working with it,  there will be more ;)14:16
argesok great. feel free to ping /email me with more ideas14:16
stgraberyeah, that report looks good and will surely be useful for monitoring other point releases or even non-LTS releases in the future14:16
* skaet nods14:17
stgrabernext action is:14:17
stgraberxnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. fs/storage testing14:17
argesthanks14:17
stgraberthough xnox is at debconf so probably not much changed on that one. Keeping it around for next meeting14:17
stgraber#topic Review of upcoming deadlines14:17
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic: Review of upcoming deadlines
stgraber2012/08/02: Beginning of PointReleaseProcess and DesktopInfrastructureFreeze14:17
stgraber2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing14:17
stgraber2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze14:17
stgraber2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.114:17
stgraberas usual, if you have any other Ubuntu or downstream deadline to add, please let me know14:18
stgraber#topic Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress14:18
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic: Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress
stgraberSo, looking at the LP bug lists, it doesn't look particularly good...14:19
stgraberBug list went from 106 bugs targeted to 12.04.1 to 112.14:19
stgraber26 of these are currently marked fix commited (vs 27 two weeks ago).14:19
stgraber50 of the 112 bugs aren't currently assigned to someone.14:19
stokachuonly 1 fix committed?14:19
smoser-114:19
stokachuerr yea14:19
stgraberI'm hoping these fix commited are different ones from last week, but I don't have an easy way to check that14:20
stokachutbh i haven't seen much movement on sru's last week14:20
stokachui assume b/c of holidays etc14:20
skaetin particular,  a bit worried about bug 1017001.   There are also some bugs that QA is encountering yesterday that they're worried about:  bug 1021718,  bug 1022864, bug 102292714:21
stgraberI think at this point we really really need every team to go through the list, assign the work to their team members, target any missing bug and re-target any bug that won't be fixed in time14:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/101700114:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1021718 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubuntu Precise ISO test failed in Jenkins due to debian installer failed to get debconf answer 'base-installer/kernel/linux/initrd'." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102171814:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1022864 in gsettings-desktop-schemas (Ubuntu Quantal) "Oneiric to Precise upgrade test failed: User settings are not preserved on upgrade" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102286414:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1022927 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Precise to quantal upgrade test failed: obsolete files left after the upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102292714:21
stokachuyea the lack of ownership is worrisome14:22
skaetI think stgraber's recommendation that the teams go through and assign individuals to each of the flagged bugs is what's needed.14:22
stokachuagreed14:23
stgraber1017001 should probably be assigned to mvo or should at least be escalated to mvo. I'll take care of that when going through the foundations bugs14:23
skaetthanks stgraber14:23
skaetif when doing the pass to assign the bugs,  if folks could make sure the priority is accurate as well,  it would help.14:24
* skaet figures its probably worth bringing up at the meeting tomorrow, that we're in the last push for 12.04.1 and there are lots of worrisome bugs out there.14:25
seb128doh14:25
seb128was there a meeting today? why didn't anyone ping me?14:25
stgraberalso don't hesitate to move things to 12.04.2 or -updates, I'm guessing we have quite a few of these bugs that aren't realistically going to make it to the point release and I'd prefer to have the list reflect that (instead of being over-optimistic as it seems to be at the moment)14:26
skaetstgraber,  should we also be switching to weekly now?14:26
skaetfor the meeting14:26
stgraberseb128: yep, there's a meeting. Google should have pinged you 10 minutes before the meeting... wan me to copy/paste the log so far?14:26
seb128stgraber, google did, I got carried up in other discussions and forgot to join14:27
seb128stgraber, that's fine, I will read the log online14:27
seb128stgraber, just let me know if there was any question for me ;-)14:27
stgraberskaet: I think it'd be a good idea to ensure that everyone is focused on getting these done14:27
stgraberseb128: the only think desktopy I saw so far is bug 1022864 that Kate mentioned a bit earlier14:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1022864 in gsettings-desktop-schemas (Ubuntu Quantal) "Oneiric to Precise upgrade test failed: User settings are not preserved on upgrade" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102286414:27
seb128stgraber, ok, I started following up on this, will keep doing that14:28
seb128stgraber, is the meeting over?14:28
seb128(sorry to step in the middle)14:28
skaetseb128,  there wasn't a question,  but an action ;)  please go through the 12.04.1 bugs and clean up assignments/priority/milestone targets.  :)14:28
seb128ok14:28
stgraberseb128: nope, we're in the middle of it (going through the bug lists)14:28
ScottKskaet/stgraber: There's a postfix microversion update pending acceptance that really ought to go into 12.04.1 because if it doesn't, upgraders are likely to have TLS problems.14:29
seb128stgraber, ok, sorry for the noise then, please get going, I'm around now ;-)14:29
skaetScottK,  bug number?14:29
stgraberScottK: are the relevant bugs targeted to 12.04.1?14:29
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* ScottK looks14:29
jamespageScottK, bug 102277214:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1022772 in postfix (Ubuntu Precise) "Microversion release update for postfix 2.9.3-2" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102277214:30
ScottKThat's the SRU bug.14:30
jamespageoriginal bug report - bug 99175414:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 991754 in postfix (Ubuntu Precise) "Add support to turn off the TLSv1.1 and TLSv1.2 protocols" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99175414:31
ScottKThat's the one.14:31
ScottKI think Bug #1001040  is related too.14:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1001040 in postfix (Ubuntu) ""TLS library problem" drops incoming mail when sender uses RC4-MD5 cipher" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100104014:31
ScottKI think we definitely want this resolved before server upgrades start in earnest.14:32
stgraberok, status looks good and it's targeted, so assuming it gets tested quickly, there'll be no problem to have it in 12.04.114:32
ScottKFirst some other SRU person needs to accept it ...14:33
ScottKMaybe bdmurray would do it.14:33
stgraberwe seem to have almost 2 weeks worth of SRU backlog in the queue, that's getting a bit scary... hopefully it'll get better when debconf is over and we get back slangasek and infinity14:35
skaetScottK,  yup, its his day for SRU vanguarding... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SRUTeamProcess14:35
ScottKPerfect.14:35
bdmurrayScottK: postfix is it?14:35
ScottKbdmurray: yes.  For Precise.14:35
skaetstgraber,  ok,  I'll start beating the drums, and seeing if we can get some focus.14:35
seb128yeah, SRU backlog is concerning14:36
stgraberskaet: would be great. Apparently nagging directly for a given package seems to work quite well, but that means that people who aren't nagging in #ubuntu-release have to wait weeks to have their stuff accepted...14:36
seb128we are at constant level around  30 items backlog14:36
skaetyeah,  infinity had some ideas on this,  but I haven't seen any updates about it.14:36
seb128it's going to be an increasing issue as we get close from the freeze date14:36
stokachugood we are getting fixes proposed, bad we dont have the bandwidth14:36
stokachuis it possible to check for valid sru's in the first comment and dismiss those missing any one of the 3 required14:37
stokachuor description, whatever14:37
stokachuwas thinking maybe launchpad janitor or some other bot14:38
stokachualso having a form submission for SRU's would help to keep required fields14:38
stgraberstokachu: I'd expect one that doesn't have these fields set to be rejected, not left in the queue. I don't think the format is strict enough that it can easily be detected at this point though14:38
stokachustgraber: yea im just curious if they haven't been touched yet though14:39
ScottKI think I did leave a couple in the queue that needed work on the bug, but made comments there/set them to incomplete.14:39
stokachuScottK: do those actually show in the queue waiting for someone in SRU team to work on?14:40
stgraberat some point we'll want to automatically get these test cases and push them to packages.qa.ubuntu.com, so requiring a well structured description will help achieve that. Though I guess that's something to discuss at the next UDS.14:40
stokachui recommended an updates system at the previous one14:40
stokachuQA didn't seem to impressed though :)14:40
stokachuanyway, stgraber those bugs i posted yesterday for you are the ones relevant to 12.04.1 as well14:41
stokachushould i post them again for archival's sake?14:41
ScottKstgraber: I think it would be nice to have a page like the one for SRU status in -proposed that serves a a control panel for what needs working on.  It could mark incomplete bugs yellow or something so people don't relook.14:41
stgraber#action skaet to poke the SRU team and see what can be done to process the current backlog14:42
meetingologyACTION: skaet to poke the SRU team and see what can be done to process the current backlog14:42
skaetyup14:42
stgraber#action stgraber to review and sponsor bug 977947, bug 977952 and bug 97794014:42
meetingologyACTION: stgraber to review and sponsor bug 977947, bug 977952 and bug 97794014:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 977947 in libbonobo (Ubuntu Quantal) "Please transition libbonobo to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/97794714:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 977952 in libbonoboui (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libbonoboui to multi-arch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/97795214:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 977940 in gnome-vfs (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition gnome-vfs to multi-arch" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/97794014:42
stokachustgraber: thanks :D14:43
stokachuseb128 could probably help with 977940 if he has time14:43
stgraberScottK: yeah, having tried to do some of that in queuebot, the main pain is that the API doesn't let us query much from the queue at this point. Though that may have changed with cjwatson's work on the queue API14:43
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stgraberScottK: the main problem in the past was that you would only get the URL to the .changes file and would then have to parse it to get anything out of it (and then query LP again based on that)14:44
ScottKNot very helpful.14:44
stgraberyeah :) I wanted to show the IRC nickname of the uploader in queuebot but decided not to do it as I'd have had to: grab the .changes => parse it => extract e-mail => match against LP => get the user object => query ircnickname14:45
stokachuseb128: you mentioned multi-arch bugs at the previous meeting, are there any that you are aware of that I haven't touched yet14:46
stgraberinstead of being able to do the usual .uploader.irc_name :)14:46
ScottKstgraber: ./queue info shows stuff like " 4373718 | S- | qemu-kvm             | 1.0+noroms-0ubuntu14 | 17 hours         | * qemu-kvm/1.0+noroms-0ubuntu14 Component: main Section: misc" now.14:46
seb128stokachu, what's the status of those atm? I uploaded libart-lgpl and reviewed gnome-vfs that you updated yesterday14:46
ScottKThat seems like a useful basis for something.14:46
stokachuah14:46
seb128stokachu, what about the libbobobo,ui ones, did slangasek review it again?14:46
stokachuseb128: stgraber added it to his list to review14:47
seb128ok14:47
stokachui saw you reviweed gnome-vfs but did you review the merge proposal?14:47
stokachuhe addressed your changes mentioned14:47
stokachuit*14:47
stokachuthe only other 2 i know of are libgnome2 and appmenu-gtk14:48
stgrabergnome-vfs is on my list for today, so I'm happy to review it too14:48
stokachuwhich im current working14:48
seb128stokachu, ok, yeah, appmenu-gtk seems to be the one coming often14:48
seb128stokachu, thanks, seems those are on track then14:48
stokachuok cool, please lemme know if any other come up14:48
stgraberstokachu: let me know when they're ready to be looked at and I'll look and sponsor (I have a few more questions on the testing you did, but I'll poke you post-meeting)14:49
stgraber#topic Round table14:49
stokachuok14:49
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic: Round table
stgraberstgraber@castiana:~$ echo $(shuf -e NCommander seb128 stgraber arges jibel skaet smoser jamespage)14:49
stgraberNCommander arges jibel skaet seb128 smoser stgraber jamespage14:49
stokachuaww no love 4 stokachu14:50
skaetstokachu, why don't you start then...  I suspect NCommander's offline14:50
stgraberstokachu: oops :) let's pretend you're after arges14:50
stokachuLOL14:50
stgraberor now, whatever :)14:50
stokachuI think im covered for now14:50
stgraberarges:14:51
argesi'm good14:51
arges..14:51
stgraberno jibel around14:51
stgraberskaet:14:51
skaetback from vacation,   getting concerned about all the recent failures (as mentioned);  about to start beating the drum....14:51
skaetneed to get the QA daily tests working reliably again as first priority.14:52
skaet..14:52
stgraberseb128:14:52
seb128desktop SRUs still go well, on a regular basis14:52
seb128we are a bit behind for compiz,unity14:52
seb128we should have an unity SRU with a big pile of fixes next week14:52
seb128then a compiz one14:53
seb128(we got an issue with the current compiz  SRU this week, that's going to be addressed with a follow up upload rsn)14:53
seb128then we aim at another round of unity uploads at the end of the month, mostly backports from quantal performance improvements14:53
seb128otherwise as mentioned before the SRU team backlog and delay to do review is still concerning14:54
seb128it really slow down work and breaks the dynamic, it also makes hard to follow errors.ubuntu.com since lot of the issues are addressed with fixes blocked in the queue for weeks14:54
seb128..14:54
skaetseb128,  please remind unity/compiz teams of the 08/02 date to get all the desktop infrastructure changes in by.14:54
seb128skaet, yes, we have that in mind and we will make sure to be in time ;-)14:54
skaet:)14:55
stgrabersmoser:14:55
smoserjamespage, and i just went through the server team bugs.14:56
smosersignificant amount are juju or maas.14:56
smoserand we'll follow up with those teams to push a bit and get a sense of urgency14:56
smoserthat really just about covers the list at http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html14:57
smoserthats it.14:57
stgraberstgraber:14:58
stgrabermust admit being a bit behind on tracking SRUs at the moment... I still have at least one in the queue. Started reviewing stokachu's multi-arch SRUs (should be uploaded today)14:59
stgraberI'll also go through the whole list and make sure the bugs have all proper target/tags/importance/status and assign these that are foundation-y15:00
stgraberwill probably be talking a bit with skaet on these that I think we'd need to drop from 12.04.115:00
stgraberI remember some of the listed ones requiring significant upstream changes that haven't even started, so pretty unlikely to be ready (thinking of one of the dnsmasq bug)15:01
stgraber..15:01
stgraberjamespage:15:01
stgrabergoing to assume that it's mostly the same as smoser15:03
stgraber#topic AOB15:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic: AOB
stgraberso as Kate suggested earlier, the meeting will now become a weekly meeting15:04
stgraberI'll update the wiki and the calendar15:04
stgrabersame place, same time, just every week now15:04
stgraber#action stgraber to change the meeting to a weekly meeting15:04
meetingologyACTION: stgraber to change the meeting to a weekly meeting15:04
stgraberanything else?15:04
jamespagestgraber, sorry - it was - got called away for a second...15:05
stgraber#endmeeting15:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Jul 12 15:05:37 2012 UTC.15:05
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-14.00.moin.txt15:05
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-14.00.html15:05
stgraberthanks everyone, sorry for finishing a bit late15:05
stokachuthanks!15:05
skaetthanks!15:06
asomething#startmeeting "MOTU Meeting"16:18
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Jul 12 16:18:58 2012 UTC.  The chair is asomething. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.16:18
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired16:18
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | "MOTU Meeting" Meeting | Current topic:
asomethingHi all! Any one around for the motu meeting?16:19
asomethinglooks like we have one agenda item besides our standing ones16:20
asomethingMOTU School Doodle poll results update and discussion16:20
coolbhavim there!16:20
coolbhaviasomething, one good news is we had a good response for the 1st school session on restart yesterday16:21
asomething#topic MOTU School Doodle poll results update and discussion16:21
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | "MOTU Meeting" Meeting | Current topic: MOTU School Doodle poll results update and discussion
* tumbleweed waves from debconf16:22
asomethingcoolbhavi, great, how'd the session go? good attendance?16:22
coolbhaviasomething, yes there was a reasonable turn up yesterday16:23
* coolbhavi searches his bookmarks for the poll link16:23
asomethingare the logs up one the wiki somewhere?16:23
asomethingcoolbhavi, http://doodle.com/w9p6hh43hfwk8xmp16:24
coolbhavithanks asomething  the logs are linked by nhandler today I believe on the wiki16:25
asomethingone thing I've noticed is that we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School16:27
asomethingi wonder if these should be merged16:27
coolbhaviyes asomething I'll do that over the next week16:28
asomethinggreat16:28
asomething#action coolbhavi, merge https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School16:28
meetingologyACTION: coolbhavi, merge https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School16:29
coolbhaviasomething, based on the timings feedback I got here is the post I posted on the mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-June/007267.html16:30
asomethingis there anything that could go better for the next class? was there some kind of help you could have used that you don't feel you got?16:30
coolbhaviasomething, yes there is a streamlining process in my mind16:30
coolbhavibasically to sustain the school we need to have a team who co ordinate with various people and setup sessions16:32
coolbhavifitting across most time zones16:32
coolbhavidoing a bit of blogging about the sessions just a week before the sessions16:33
asomething#action asomething, help blog about the next motu school session16:33
meetingologyACTION: asomething, help blog about the next motu school session16:33
coolbhaviand sending a remainder to the list 2 or 3 days before the sessions16:33
coolbhaviasomething, any views on the same welcome!16:34
asomethingya, in the past we've struggled to have trainings on a regular basis. I think you're probably hitting the same issues16:34
asomethinghas anyone stepped up to lead the next class?16:35
coolbhavihmm I see a https://launchpad.net/~packaging-training-coordinators team on LP maybe we can open up a new team and merge the same as in the case of d-a-t16:36
coolbhaviasomething, I got a lukewarm response for handling sessions on the list so I took the first session16:37
coolbhavikeeping in mind the audience turnout16:37
asomethingso from your email, it looks like 27th July will be the next class, right?16:41
asomething#link http://doodle.com/w9p6hh43hfwk8xmp16:42
coolbhaviyes16:42
asomething#link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-June/007267.html16:42
asomething#info 27th July will be the MOTU School next class, still needs an instructor16:43
asomethingso is there anything else to discuss? I don't think we have any thing new for the ARB to report back16:45
coolbhavino I am done from my side16:46
asomething#topic Next MOTU meeting16:47
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | "MOTU Meeting" Meeting | Current topic: Next MOTU meeting
asomethingso turn out was a bit low =)16:47
coolbhavill catchup on the list on motu school16:47
coolbhavi:)16:47
asomethingif we're going to keep the every other week pace, that put's us on 26 July16:48
coolbhavi+116:49
asomethingI can't commit to chairing the next meeting, but I'll send out the minutes from this one and commit to sending the reminder mails to the list16:49
asomething#action send out meeting minutes16:49
meetingologyACTION: send out meeting minutes16:49
asomething#action asomething, update wiki headers and send out reminders for next meeting16:50
meetingologyACTION: asomething, update wiki headers and send out reminders for next meeting16:50
asomethingguess that's all for today16:50
coolbhavisame here but I can chair i think next16:51
asomething#endmeeting16:51
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Jul 12 16:51:42 2012 UTC.16:51
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-16.18.moin.txt16:51
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-16.18.html16:51
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jono#startmeeting18:00
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Jul 12 18:00:20 2012 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.18:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired18:00
jonohi everyone, and welcome to the Ubuntu Accomplishments meeting!18:00
jonoI know cielak is going to be a bit late to join us18:00
jonobut who is here for the meeting?18:00
* mfisch is18:00
* imbrandon waves o/18:00
AlanBello/18:01
jonoawesome18:01
jonoI wanted to first discuss quality18:01
jonorecently we have been working to improve the quality across our codebases18:01
jonoI wrote an admin UI for visibility on server-side issues18:01
jonoand we are moving towards unit testing18:02
jonomfisch, can you summarize your work on this?18:02
mfischyes18:02
mfischso I basically gutted the unit tests for the daemon18:02
mfischthe setup for the daemon was much simpler back then.  I spent a few hours last night perfecting the directory structure18:02
mfischwriting config files18:03
mfischABOUT files18:03
mfischextrainformation directorys18:03
mfischies I mean18:03
mfischthen today I wrote 10 tests, so far18:03
mfischthere's probably 10-15 more to be writt8en18:03
mfischI found 2 small bugs already18:03
mfischfirst of all my code is here:18:04
mfischhttps://code.launchpad.net/~mfisch/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon-new-unittests/18:04
mfischthe bugs are:18:04
jonomfisch, so the setUp is completely created in /tmp?18:04
mfischjono: yes18:04
mfischthe bugs are:18:04
mfisch1) if you have an icon without a file extenstion you get an exception18:04
mfischI think this is unlikely and was just due to my fake accomplishment, so I commented it only18:04
cielakhello everyone, sorry for being late18:05
jonohey cielak18:05
imbrandonheya18:05
jonocielak, we are just discussing mfisch's unit testing work:18:05
mfischbug 2)18:05
ubottuError: Launchpad bug 2 could not be found18:05
mfischlol18:05
jonoso I basically gutted the unit tests for the daemon18:05
jono the setup for the daemon was much simpler back then.  I spent a few hours last night perfecting the directory structure18:05
jono writing config files18:05
jono ABOUT files18:05
jono extrainformation directorys18:05
jono ies I mean18:05
jono then today I wrote 10 tests, so far18:05
jono there's probably 10-15 more to be writt8en18:05
jono I found 2 small bugs already18:05
jono first of all my code is here:18:05
jono https://code.launchpad.net/~mfisch/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon-new-unittests/18:05
imbrandon:)18:06
jonomfisch, so are you running quickly test to run the tests?18:06
mfischthe 2nd bug is if the mediafile doesn't exist, you set media_filename to None and then try to concat Str + None18:06
mfischjono: right now they're run manually, after I finish writing tests I will set this up so that the package build runs them18:06
mfischthe standard is that if the tests fail, the package build fails18:07
jonomfisch, if you used the same class and file, quickly test should run them all anyway18:07
jonomfisch, right18:07
mfischso I'd recommend everyone either build the package or run the tests before checkin18:07
imbrandonwe can likely have automated ci jenkins.ubuntu.com run them too18:07
mfischjono: yes, I'm using python's unit test18:07
jonomfisch, so these bugs...are they bugs in unit testing or this is where the unit tests have identified failures?18:07
mfischI was going to use nosetests in the package build, but maybe quickly does that already?18:07
jonousing jenkins might be useful18:07
mfischjono: both bugs are cases that could happen, but were found due to incomplete tests18:08
mfischjono: like "icon=foo", if you do that in a accomp, you will get an exception18:08
jonomfisch, right18:08
mfischbecause: a, b = icon.split(".")18:08
jonoso these are good testings to have18:08
jonowhich already will improve our quality18:08
imbrandoni'm familar with it is none else is so can help setup the ci scripts to run the test once mfisch has them more completed18:08
imbrandon( for jenkins )18:09
jonomfisch, I will definitely take a look at your branch18:09
mfischone large thing is missing so far from these tests18:09
mfischthey do not start the service18:09
mfischthey're just testing the Accomplishments class18:09
mfischso things like the accomplish() method, don't work18:09
jonomfisch, right18:10
jonoso I am not sure if we need to start the service18:10
imbrandoncorectino its https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/ btw sorry :)18:10
mfischjono: we can do a lot of testing without it18:10
jonothis is why we would use setUp to generate the data and then pass it to the function18:10
mfischI chose a different route18:10
jonomfisch, so maybe right now we focus on the testing that can just do assertEqual checks18:10
mfischI end up creating an accomplishment object in each test so I can mess around with stuff, like the ABOUT file18:11
mfischfor example18:11
mfischI have a test that removes the ABOUT file and asserts that we get an exception18:11
cielakwell, that makes sense for me too - all the service stuff is mosty done by twistd, and there is very little we actually mess with it18:11
mfischjono: and I have tests for your config writer/reader stuff18:11
jonomfisch, cool18:11
jonoI think this is going to help us to get to a culture where all functions have tests and documentation18:12
imbrandonis there plans for a linter for the accomplishments or do we think the tests are enough18:12
mfischjono: I also removed all the "homedir = " references which are not needed since you added that environment vairable18:12
mfischimbrandon: personally I think a linter will help18:12
jonomfisch, which homedir refs?18:12
mfischimbrandon: the code will throw exceptions when it sees stuff it doesnt like18:12
mfischjono: look at checkin #100 in my branch18:13
imbrandonyea we can do thinkgs like E: and W: with a linter tho :)18:13
cielakjono: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mfisch/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon-new-unittests/revision/100#accomplishments/daemon/api.py18:13
mfischimbrandon: here's some examples that I've found18:13
imbrandonk18:13
mfischimbrandon: one call will fail if there's no icon field18:13
jonomfisch, I see, as we already have self.dir_<whatever> set earlier in the code18:14
mfischimbrandon: another will fail if icon doesn't have a . in it18:14
mfischjono: yep18:14
jonocool18:14
jonomfisch, how much test coverage do you think we can get without requiring the service?18:14
jonojust pure unit testing18:14
mfischwe can easily test every public API18:15
mfischwell18:15
mfischexcept accomplish()18:15
mfischthats the only one I'm sure we can't test18:15
jonoright18:15
imbrandoni'll start on a basic linter this afternoon then, thats something i can easily fit into my schedule and then post to the list once i have the basics working and we can discuss things to check18:15
mfischI have a huge list at the top of the tests18:15
jonomfisch, so that list is acting as the TODO?18:15
mfischa list of public API calls18:15
mfischyeah18:15
jonoimbrandon, cool18:15
mfischit's a TODO18:15
cielakI guess that's enough to test all the 'logic' of all functions... mfisch, why there is an exception for accomplish() ?18:16
mfischI hope to knock a few more out today18:16
mfischcielak: when you instantiate the Accomplishment class you're supposed to pass a service reference18:16
mfischself.service = service18:16
mfischI'm passing None because I don't have one18:16
jonocielak, indeed18:16
cielakyeah, but why does it stop you from testing accomplish() ?18:17
jonoand that is going to be the primary focus on these unit tests, to ensure that the result is as expected18:17
cielakhow does it differ from other methods?18:17
mfischaccomplish calls service routines18:18
mfischself.service.trophy_received(accomID)18:18
mfischsince self.service is None, bad things happen18:18
mfischI'd eventually like to fix that18:18
cielakah, right, that's true18:18
mfischbut we can get some low hanging fruit without it18:18
jonothanks for your efforts on this, mfisch18:18
mfischnp18:18
cielakwhat about we passed it a fake service instance?18:18
jonothis is going to be really helpful in ensuring we don't break things18:18
cielakthat would have a fake, empty trophy_received() method?18:19
imbrandonyea mock18:19
mfischsomething like that would work18:19
jonoperfect18:19
mfischso let me do this18:19
mfischlet me write more tests this afternoon and then do a MP18:20
mfischand then we can discuss next steps18:20
* cielak just read some code from that branch, and it looks very promising18:20
jonomfisch, perfect, if you file a MP we can then merge in your work so far and then you can just iterate with more tests18:20
jonoand before long we should have full test coverage18:20
imbrandonyup18:20
mfischso I do have one request, or something to watch for18:20
jonomfisch, sure18:20
mfischit is confusing for people reading the code when we use acc, accs, accom, accomp, accomps, accoms, and accomplishments18:21
jonoyeah we need to fix this18:21
jonomfisch, you mean in api.py?18:21
mfischso when you're designing your API and writing your code, it's better to agree on one abbreviation18:21
mfischjono: thats the only one I've really been looking at18:21
jonomakes sense18:21
mfischjust a thought18:21
jonowe should fix these18:21
cielakyup, agreed18:22
jonomfisch, could you file a bug against the daemon for this18:22
jonomy hunch is that we use 'accom'18:22
mfischsure, will do18:22
cielakbut it's not just the daemon18:22
jonothanks mfisch18:22
cielakit's us too18:22
jonocielak, indeed :-)18:22
jonoso I have a related topic18:22
jonodocumentation18:22
cielakwe need to standartize not only appearances in the code, but out vocabulary too :)18:22
cielakour*18:22
jonocielak, agreed18:22
jonothis week I started putting together developer documentation18:23
imbrandonsphinx ROCKS! , we've been using it in juju, omg i'm in love with sphinx docs ... that is all :)18:23
jonoI want to ensure that our daemon API is fully documented18:23
jonoand I talked with cielak a little about this18:23
jonoimbrandon, indeed18:23
jonoso the plan is this:18:23
jono * we want to document the following core things:18:23
jono - api.py - this is the internal implementation, and these docs will be designed for people hacking on the daemon18:24
jono - dbusapi.py - this generates our client documentation that client devs will use18:24
jonoyou can see this work evolving at http://213.138.100.229/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/docs/_build/html/index.html#module-accomplishments.daemon18:24
jonotake a look at http://213.138.100.229/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/docs/_build/html/clientref.html18:25
jonothis is the client docs18:25
jonoI spent some time adding this earlier this week, I still need to finish18:25
jonocielak, did you get a chance to document api.py?18:25
jonothe docs in api.py might be useful for mfisch when writing tests and knowing what a function should return18:26
cielakjono: not yet, but that's on top of my priority list now, so I'll do it really soon18:26
jonoawesome cielak18:26
jonoone thing I wanted ask re. this18:26
jonoso our functions in dbusapi.py typically output dbus data18:26
mfischyes, docs would help18:26
jonobut I have been showing the examples just outputting the plain lists to show it simplifiied18:27
jonodo you think this makes sense?18:27
cielakjono: do you have an example of that?18:27
jonocielak, as an example: http://213.138.100.229/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/docs/_build/html/clientref.html#accomplishments.daemon.dbusapi.AccomplishmentsDBusService.get_acc_categories18:28
imbrandonjono as a side note, the ubuntu theme i created for http://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/ ( sphinx ) is at lp:ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-sphinx-theme if when its time to publish you want to make it follow branding etc18:28
jonoI show this just outputting a straight list18:28
jonoimbrandon, oh cool, could you merge it into ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon and submit a MP?18:29
cielakjono: aah, and it should actually be [dbus.String("Launchpad")], or something like that?18:29
jonocielak, right18:29
imbrandonjono: aure thing18:29
imbrandonsure*18:29
jonobut I am not sure if I should show the full dbus output, cielak18:29
jonoor keep it simple, as it is still a list18:29
jonomy hunch is to keep it simple18:29
jonothanks imbrandon!18:29
cielakwell, if we will state clearly enough that this actually are dbus data types, then any developer familiar with dbus will know what does that mean18:30
jonocielak, that makes sense18:30
jonowe can mention that in the general docs18:30
jonoI can put that at the top of the docs page18:30
cielakand of course, being consistent is the key:  http://213.138.100.229/ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon/docs/_build/html/clientref.html#accomplishments.daemon.dbusapi.AccomplishmentsDBusService.build_viewer_database18:30
jonocielak, indeed18:31
jonowe will want to give them all a look for accuracy18:31
jonook cool, so cielak, you are going to work on docs next?18:31
jonoand I will finish off the client docs too18:31
cielakI think a general note about the AccomplishmentsDBusSrvice class will do the trick18:31
jonocielak, yup18:31
cielakyup, that's what I'm gonna do next :)18:31
imbrandonalso note i can make it "look" liek anything with the CSS :)18:32
jonocielak, it might make sense if you can start documentating the functions that mfisch has not written tests for yet18:32
jonoso he knows the return values to expect18:32
jonoimbrandon, cool!18:32
mfischgood idea18:32
cielakokay, sure - but documenting all this shouldn't take much time anyway18:33
cielakbut I'll start with these that are missing test, to ensure mfisch will get them as soon as possible18:33
jonomfisch, would it helpful for cielak to just list all the return details first for all the missing tests and then fill the docs afterwards?18:33
jonocielak, cool!18:33
mfischyeah that works18:34
mfischmost so far I've figured out from reading the python18:34
mfischcielak: the "to do" list is at the top of the unit tests18:35
cielakyeah, in most cases that's not complicated at all18:35
cielakthanks mfisch, will follow it18:35
mfischso I have another topic18:35
mfischdepending on what jono has18:35
jonothanks18:35
jonomfisch, sure18:35
mfischdoes the accomp linter remove the need for the daemon to be more bullet proof?18:36
mfischi know it helps18:36
mfischbut when I wrote my accomplishments I was greeted by lots of crashing18:36
jonomfisch, accomp linter?18:37
imbrandonhrm, i think it would help devs more than needing to be bulletproof18:37
mfischaccomplishment checker/verifier18:37
imbrandonjono: the new linter i talked about earlier18:37
jonomfisch, oh you mean battery?18:37
mfischI think its a tool that will read 1 accomp file and tell you if something required is missing or broken18:38
jonomfisch, we have that18:38
cielakmore or less18:38
jonoI wrote a tool called Accomplishments Battery18:38
imbrandonjono: no , like "lintian" for ebian packageing only this will be for ubuntu accompilshment writers18:38
imbrandonahhh18:38
imbrandonwell maybe so then18:38
cielakactually, I think the battery should be expanded with the funcionality of a linter18:38
mfischok18:38
imbrandonyea18:38
imbrandonthat sounds like ti18:38
jonolet me explain:18:38
jonoso I wrote this tool called accomplishments-battery that can do a full test run over all accoms18:39
cielakthere is a lot of other checks it might perform to help accomplishment devs to ensure their accomplishment works18:39
jonoand you can use it to test a specific accomplishment18:39
cielakokay, but now the battery makes sense only for global accomplishments18:39
jonoI also added a check which tells you if you missed fields in your .accomplishment file18:39
jonocielak, yes, we need to make it work better for local accoms18:39
mfischperfect18:39
cielakoh, I didn't know about that feature18:40
imbrandonyuo perfect18:40
jonomfisch, imbrandon https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Creating/Guide/Testing18:40
mfischlet me explain my thought18:40
jonomfisch, sure18:40
mfischright now, a missing = sign in 1 accomp file will take the whole daemon down18:40
jonomfisch, right18:40
mfischit sounds like we have tools to help you test that (we didn't back in my day!)18:40
jonomfisch, well, we have a tool that checks if the script works18:41
mfischso, I guess just keep that in mind when we're writing code, we might need more exception handling18:41
jonowe don't currently do syntax checking in bettery18:41
jonowhich would be handy18:41
jonomfisch, although I think the daemon should not go down when it finds a syntax issue18:41
jonowe might want to throw some badly formed accomplishments at it as part of the unit tests18:41
mfischI have some18:41
mfischbut now I only assert that they do throw exceptions18:42
jonothe goal of battery is to help the accom dev submit a perfectly working accom18:42
jonomfisch, gotcha18:42
mfischI had a plan to do this18:42
jonomfisch, what would be handy is if you could file bugs for these issues18:42
jonowe should definitely fix them18:42
mfischhave 3 good accomps, make sure we see 3, add 1 bad one, make sure we still see 318:42
mfischok18:42
jonomfisch, cool18:42
mfischright now 3+ 1 bad one = crash18:42
jonomfisch, good point though18:42
jonoright18:42
cielakvery true18:42
mfischI'll file a few more today then18:43
cielakdaemon does indeed depend on the accoms correctness18:43
jonofortunatley, these should be simple fixes18:43
jonothanks mfisch18:43
cielakalso, it can be crashed with a wrong config file18:43
jonocielak, would you be happy to look at these bugs and I will fix it in battery?18:43
cielakof course18:43
jonomaybe we can look at this when our docs are finalized18:43
jonomfisch, cool, so if you can file the bugs and assign them to cielak18:43
cielakthis may require some tricks, but is really needed18:43
mfischok18:44
jonoI will try to get better syntax checking in battery18:44
jonothanks guys18:44
jonoI will be out at OSCON next week, so my battery work may be a little later18:44
jonocielak, good news is I am not seeing any server failures18:44
cielakneither I do :-)18:45
jonook, just to recap:18:46
jono * cielak - you will add the return types to the api.py docs first and mfisch can use that to continue building the tests18:46
jono * cielak - you will then flesh out the api.py docs18:46
jono * mfisch - you will continue to grow our unit tests18:46
jono * imbrandon - you will add ubuntu theming support to sphinx18:47
jono * me - I will finish off the docs for the client side18:47
imbrandonjono: yup, just about done actually :)18:47
jono * cielak - you will look at the syntax bugs in the daemon and I will fix this in battery18:47
jonothis should keep us busy until the next meeting18:47
cielakyeah, exactly ;)18:47
jonoawesome18:48
jonoalso, I am expanding https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking more and more where I can18:48
jonoso we can have good docs for new devs joining us18:48
jonoany other topics?18:48
imbrandonnope , not here18:49
jonook cool18:49
imbrandonjono: http://api.websitedevops.com/accomplishments-docs/18:49
cielakdoes anyone lurking want to ask us anything? ;-)18:49
jonoimbrandon, haha!18:49
jononice!18:49
imbrandonneeds some tweeks but its almost ready :)18:50
cielakimbrandon: oh, wow!18:50
imbrandon:)18:50
* imbrandon loves web stuff 18:50
jonoimbrandon, looks like there are a few tweaks that need to happen in there18:50
jonoa few layout issues18:50
jonoimbrandon, thanks so much18:50
jonothis is going to rock when we get this online18:50
imbrandonyup, its talored to juju docs now, but yea18:50
bkerensaimbrandon: rocking job man!18:50
imbrandonhour or two of touchups and it will rock18:51
jonothanks imbrandon18:51
imbrandonheya bkerensa18:51
imbrandonnp jono18:51
jonoany other questions, folks?18:51
jonoI guess we can wrap18:51
jonothanks everyone for joining us, awesome meeting!18:51
jonoand as ever, we are in #ubuntu-accomplishments18:52
gigixjono, I might come back and ask for a summary though18:52
cielakthanks everyone, thanks jono!18:52
jonogigix, this meeting will be logged18:52
jono#endmeeting18:52
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Jul 12 18:52:14 2012 UTC.18:52
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-18.00.moin.txt18:52
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-12-18.00.html18:52
jonogigix, ^18:52

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