Azelphursigh, my internet randomly went down :(01:34
ali1234hmm webm encoding is quite slow02:47
=== pangolin is now known as IdleOne
diplo Morning all06:59
christelAlanBell: rar! are we meeting somewhere pre-RAT? :)07:17
AlanBellchristel: no specific plans yet07:29
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|afk
brobostigonnot a nice day, i have my mums eldest systers funeral to go to.07:43
shaunohorribly off-topic, but to translate some troubleshooting steps for a windows user, what'd be their equivalent of 'dig' ?07:47
shaunoI can't figure out how to force nslookup to use 53/tcp instead of udp, hence dig07:49
diploNever tried, will take a lookup :)07:50
shauno(battle of the firewalls; one site isn't allowing 53/udp out, the other isn't allowing 53/tcp in; dns usually accepts both, but this combination means neither option passes)07:50
diploset vc ?07:51
diploabout halfway down the page they talk about it07:51
shaunosounds promising (had no idea what a virtual circuit was ;), cheers :)07:52
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)07:56
brobostigonany idication yet, as to if i were to order a nexus 7 , when shipping would occur?07:56
brobostigongood morning bigcalm :)07:56
popeybrobostigon, google says 27th08:00
brobostigonpopey: ok, cool, day of my birthday, :)08:02
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
=== alan_g|afk is now known as alan_g|
=== alan_g| is now known as alan_g
bigcalmIs it the weekend yet?08:17
brobostigonit is only thursday.08:18
bigcalmbrobostigon: damn08:21
dwatkinsmajor O2 outage in the UK, seems to be resolved in some areas now.08:31
diployeah my friend in Kent wasn't affected at all, but lots around my area were08:35
diploHappily it didn't affect users of GiffGaff08:35
JamesTaitGood morning all! o/08:36
BigRedSI'm after a browser that apes Firefox's behaviour where I can type the name of a bookmark and hit 'enter', but that doesn't ape firefox's pillaging of my ram08:40
BigRedSany suggestions?08:40
BigRedSit's not chromium or opera08:40
DJonesLooking at the BBC website, its saying that GiffGaff & Tesco mobile were affected, probably the same bloke that did an update at RBS/Nat West and broke their systems changed jobs to work at O208:40
diploWell DJones, loads of people on O2 around here who were affected but my giffgaff didn't stop all day so not sure what the issue was08:41
DJonesdiplo: Did you see the O2 suggestion on how to get your phone working for calls? Switch your 3G service off08:42
directhexyeah, o2 3g is still down. 2g supposedly fixed08:42
diploMy 3g has been on the whole time08:43
oimoni have emergency calls only on my giffgaff phone atm08:55
oimondata is working08:55
oimonBigRedS, maybe synapse will due the bookmark thing for you, p.s. firefox is better on ram lately08:56
oimonmy giffgaff was ok yesterday strangely08:56
BigRedSyeah, I've just downloaded firefox straight from mozilla08:58
BigRedSnot liking the idea of TB getting even less dev time though. It's already the only not-atrocious free mail client...08:58
oimonwhat features are required? exchange support would be nice08:59
oimonproper activesync support08:59
BigRedSIMAP support and not needing 2G of RAM08:59
BigRedSThe whole point of IMAP is that the server does all the work; thunderbird shouldn't feel the need to download 200,000 mail headers, just the last 2009:00
BigRedSy'know, like the spec says...09:00
oimonmine seems to work ok09:01
oimonthats cos i disabled offline storage09:01
oimonalso have 250MB RAM usage for a quillion emails09:02
* BigRedS hunts down that checkbox and unticks it09:02
BigRedSmaybe that'll fix that09:02
oimoninbox -right mouse, properties, synchroniszaTION09:03
oimonunselect offline use09:03
davmor2morning all09:03
BigRedSyeah, I just did that09:04
bigcalmMorning davmor209:04
oimonthere is also a global setting but i don't trust it09:04
davmor2morning bigcalm thanks for the text dude :)09:06
bigcalmdavmor2: hope you're ok man09:07
davmor2bigcalm: Yeah nackered it's been a long week and there are 2 days left :)09:08
* bigcalm gives these 2 days an evil stare09:16
bigcalmSo tired, want it to be the weekend09:16
bigcalmThough that does mean a long drive down to Farnham09:17
daubersUrgh, get back to the UK on Tuesday afternoon, get sent to London on Friday :(09:18
czajkowskidaubers: loads of time to recover :)09:19
AlanBellshould the Ubuntu One music store work in Quantal?09:22
bigcalmU1 was broken yesterday, maybe it still is09:23
diploThey said it was fixed on twitter late afternoon i though09:26
AlanBellI just get "Connecting you to the Ubuntu One Music Store..." in rhythmbox09:26
AlanBellI haven't clicked that for about 2 years so it might not be a recent breakage09:27
gordAlanBell: works fine for me in P09:28
directhexheh. WD are releasing a new range of drives, "red", due to the previous "green" series being completely unusable in always-on workloads like NAS09:29
AlanBellI have a 3TB WD green drive specifically for a mostly-off workload09:34
AlanBellmy root drive is a 16GB SD card and that is a mounted storage area09:34
BigRedSdirecthex: isn't that what black were for?09:41
dogmatic69handy terminal is handy09:56
paul2978:( im trying to connect to freenode beldnerQA does anyone know how i connect to it?09:59
dwatkins /join #blenderQA09:59
AlanBellpaul2978: type /join #blenderQA09:59
dwatkinsthat without the space at the beginning, paul297809:59
paul2978thanks Alanbell & dawtkins how to i rejoin this chat afterwards?10:00
dogmatic69paul2978: no point, its empty10:00
paul2978lol ok10:00
dwatkinspaul2978: you should remain here in this tab/window10:00
dogmatic69paul2978: your irc client should have tabs etc10:00
dogmatic69one per channel10:00
paul2978oh ok10:00
dogmatic69what you using?10:00
dwatkinsyeah, xchat has tabs if you've enabled the reevant option10:00
dogmatic69ye, it has tabs10:01
dogmatic69I think at the top by default10:01
paul2978Thanks :)10:01
AlanBell#blender is the main channel with 227 people in it10:01
dwatkinslast time I used xchat the tabs were at the side, but it may have changed since then10:01
paul2978yeah at the side10:01
dogmatic69dwatkins: what you using?10:02
paul2978join #blender10:02
dwatkinsdogmatic69: irssi/screen10:02
dogmatic69paul2978: with a / :)10:03
BigRedSI have a 1st gen eepc to stick a linux on, anyone got any reccomendations?10:28
BigRedSit's for someone who doesn't know linux, but I reckon they'll be okay in openbox or somesuch and wont be looking to install things, just browse the net really10:28
bigcalmBigRedS: I've always wondered if crunchbang might work well on an eeepc10:29
BigRedSbigcalm: ooh, that'd be worth a look10:29
BigRedSa prettier openbox than I'd be arsed to do, too :)10:30
bigcalmSomeday I'll get around to trying it on my eeepc 100010:30
diploI really like crunchbang, I ran it on my ex father in laws old pc10:33
diploHe was stupid to be plain and fair and he used it10:33
diploSo can't be that bad10:33
BigRedSand it's debian based so I'll understand it, too10:33
BigRedSHeh, it's just booted into UNR 10.1010:42
BigRedSforgot I did that10:42
directhexi liked UNR10:49
directhexnetbook-launcher was great10:50
BigRedSit's a bit laggy on this...10:53
davmor2BigRedS: have you tried Lubuntu?10:57
BigRedSyeah, the LXDE ubuntu10:58
BigRedSforgot about that, probably rouglu equivalent to crunchbang10:58
=== rastamouse is now known as nothingspecial
bigcalmMy apologies for top-posting on the mailing list. In my defence, the only other reply in the thread also top-posted. So I was following the trend11:15
bigcalmlivingdaylight: GA11:15
livingdaylightbigcalm, hia11:16
shaunobigcalm: no need to worry about it now.  ninjas have aleady been dispatched ;)11:16
livingdaylightUpdate: re: yesterdays pc issue on newly-built pc: I changed wireless keyboard and mouse and everythings seems fine now!11:16
BigRedSbigcalm: just claim you were winding cz<tab> up and it's all good :)11:18
livingdaylightOnly reason I bought parts to build a new pc was because I thought my pc was DEDED. When I began to experience similar issues on brand new pc I began to wonder. All I needed all along was a new keyboard, instead  I have a new £300 computer - LOL11:18
BigRedShaha, I did that once when the problem was the power lead11:18
livingdaylightso, funny...11:20
livingdaylightnever thought that the keyboard could cause the pc to get sluggish and freeze11:20
livingdaylightI just changed batteries every once in a while11:21
BigRedSNow you mention it, I have heard of that before11:21
BigRedSwith a PS/2 one11:21
BigRedSoh! I guess this is USB11:21
livingdaylightok, yes, this was a usb one.11:21
livingdaylight£300 lesson learnt11:21
daubersSo whats the "in" way of building websites these days? DJango & jQuery?11:31
gordbut i think node.js is the new fad11:34
livingdaylightis open java - icetea the new way ? seems the sun-java option is no longer11:37
daubersnode.js? What does that do11:38
livingdaylightappears that there are oracle-java installation guides online. What is the consensus of oracle-java vs icetea?11:40
daubersavoid both?11:41
AlanBelldaubers: node.js is server side javascript and it is kinda good for real time comet stuff11:41
AlanBelletherpad-lite uses it11:41
daubersah, ok11:43
daubersSo does that require a http server too (reading the website it doesn't look it)?11:44
AlanBellno, it does the socket handling stuff11:44
gordno, which is why i stay the hell away from it ;)11:44
BigRedSI'd be very scared at the idea of havng nothing inbetween node.js and the internet11:44
daubersHmmm.... I'll add it to the list of stuff I should look into11:44
daubersBigRedS: YOU ARE THE INTERWEBS!11:44
AlanBellif you want raw access to do something interesting it is good11:45
AlanBelland it is more like twisted than multithreaded hardness11:46
AlanBellbut if you just want to build a website then use Joomla/wordpress/mediawiki/drupal/something where someone else does the dull parts11:47
daubersI got angry at WP and drupal recently. Was going to bung something together with Django and jQuery, but wondered what had changed in the last couple of years in the ever changing fad like world of web based frameworks11:47
davmor2daubers: django has a couple of things going for it, it's python and web so you get to improve both :)11:48
daubersdavmor2: That and I already know it!11:49
AlanBelldjango is OK, but you have to do a lot yourself really11:52
bigcalmI really want to start learning python11:52
AlanBelldjango doesn't abstract the database very well, you have to do all kinds of mucking about with something called south if you want to add a field to an object because it doesn't sort out the tables for you11:53
davmor2bigcalm: I can recommend a course :D11:54
bigcalmdavmor2: great :)11:54
daubersAlanBell: huh? I've never hit that problem11:57
daubersAlanBell: Is this if you change a model definition it sometimes doesn't update the DB structure correctly?11:58
AlanBellmaybe it is more of a problem on some of the Ubuntu things like the loco directory and summit11:58
AlanBellyeah, add or change a field to a model and you are into a world of schema migrations and pain11:59
daubersAh! I've never really had that problem. Most things I build remain relativley static schema wise once developed. And by tracking version numbers I generally just write a schema_update.py that checks the versions and does the updates for me12:00
AlanBellI understand it isn't a big deal, I just spent about 15 years working on schemaless nosql databases and it was a bit of a shock to the system12:02
BigRedSHm. It's a bit late to report bugs in Maverick's UNR isn't it?12:08
BigRedSno, o<O12:16
bigcalmEating something bigger than your head12:18
AlanBellwell gimp 2.8 is annoying :(12:27
AlanBellmakes it really awkward to edit and save a .png file12:27
directhexAlanBell, the way "save" only supports xcf files, and you gotta use export?12:30
directhexdunno whose idea that was12:30
AlanBelldirecthex: yeah there is an overwrite option or export back to the file it came from option (depending on how you open it that moves)12:34
directhexAlanBell, still a horrible UI regression12:34
AlanBellbut what you want to do is double click a .png, change it, save&quit12:34
AlanBellwithout being asked to care about file formats12:35
directhexi guess the aim is to force-feed people xcf files, to promote gimp as its own thing, not just "the thing that edits everyone else's formats"12:35
AlanBellmaybe, .xcf is a good layered format, it is kind of the source code to the .png object code12:35
AlanBellbut you can't use .xcf in an <img> tag (I assume)12:36
directhexof course not. xcf is just GIMP's editing format12:42
directhexit's useless for presentation, the same way you wouldn't ship a .psd for presentation either12:42
BigRedSah yeah, that irked me the other day12:54
* czajkowski face palms at liam proven description of nixie pixel12:57
* christel tickles czajkowski 12:57
christelwhat are your saturday plans? will you head straight to RAT or should we all meet for Pints first?12:58
czajkowskichristel: unsure as of now as still unwell.12:58
czajkowskimay have picked up bug in the house12:58
christeloh no :(12:58
davmor2czajkowski: "PROD!!!!"*413:02
* czajkowski peers at davmor2 13:04
davmor2czajkowski: what that's one prod for 4 days :P13:04
davmor2czajkowski: Hello, have a hug13:05
dogmatic69I need to update imagemagic on 10.10 to the same version as 12.04. Can I just use the 12.04 ppa?13:39
Laneymaybe, maybe not13:39
Laneyit would be better to rebuild that version on 10.1013:39
dogmatic69broken -> ImageMagick 6.5.7-8  working -> Version: ImageMagick 6.6.0-413:40
dogmatic69Laney: like download the src?13:40
Laneybackportpackage -s precise -d maverick -u ppa:dogmatic69/ppa imagemagick13:41
Laneyor something13:41
dogmatic69just found a 10.10 build of 6.6 .deb13:42
dogmatic69and its 32bit13:43
AlanBell10.10 is close to end of support13:43
* czajkowski headdesks13:45
dogmatic69ye, I was thinking to just update to 1213:46
* AlanBell wonders why czajkowski is abusing the desk13:48
czajkowskiAlanBell: the list13:49
dogmatic69first time doing a major update :S13:54
dogmatic69running the update now, been asked 4 times to change the mysql pw14:05
davmor2AlanBell: If I were czajkowski I'd of bought a new desk I did like rather than just trying to demolish the one I had14:06
* bigcalm returns14:13
davmor2bigcalm: you were gone?14:17
bigcalmdavmor2: I know it's hard to tell with me14:17
davmor2bigcalm: :D14:21
daubersczajkowski: I've often wondered what would happen if methods of thinking in the media "world" collided with the OSS "world". I think Liam had a point... it just wasn't very well made. I'm not sure how you could raise that point without appearing sexist though. The worlds are a mighty complicated place14:29
=== pangolin is now known as IdleOne
daubers(That doesn't demean the work she had done bringing people to Ubuntu at all, which has been an immense addition to the general corpus of work in that area)14:30
czajkowskidaubers: indeed, she has done good work, you can see that by the amount of people tuning in14:30
czajkowskibut really lowering the comments to her body features to me, is just wrong and I'll call him on it14:31
daubersczajkowski: Absolutley. It's just a complex area to talk about in the OSS world. If this was a "media" world those comments would be hidden away in terms such as "target audience" and "appealing to a demographic". I think he just hadn't necessarily the correct method of approaching the subject. So call him on it, but maybe a little help with language would be good?14:33
christelwhat are you reading?14:33
czajkowskichristel: ubuntu-uk ml14:34
czajkowskiI did I pointed out you can complement her on her geekyness or smartness14:34
czajkowskichristel: Gaming on Ubuntu thread14:34
christeli shall go Read14:35
bigcalmNeed me some Doctrine help. How would I make this work? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088052/14:35
BigRedSAnyone know if there's a Perlbrew equivalent in Ruby? For creating largely self-contained install, with it's own binary and assorted gems?14:37
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
BigRedSah! RVM apparently!14:38
daubersczajkowski: When you're talking about video and media as a whole then sometimes then appearance can be important to certain demographics. I'm not saying that's "right", just that it is a thing that exists. (and I've being reading too many books/magazines/articles on production workflows/decisions in TV and film)14:39
daubersIt's also (adding complications) a very emotive subject that a lot of people try and avoid.14:40
daubersI also hasten to add that the terminology I've used above I've tried to stay gender neutral with, because it works both ways.14:40
bigcalmBigRedS: from another channel on another server: rvm or rbenv14:40
BigRedSbigcalm: aha, I'll have a look at rbenv too, ta!14:41
diplodavmor2: Just reaad your mail, how much was the course if you don;t mind me asking14:44
davmor2diplo: with vat £78014:44
diploI'd love to put myself on a course, I knew it would be in that range but I just can;t afford to put myself through14:46
* diplo slugs on 14:46
diploCheers anyhoo14:46
davmor2diplo: no worries dude14:49
diploI guess I was hoping you were going to say £200 :D14:50
diploI know the windows/aix courses I've been on in the past have been 1-2k14:50
christelhaving perused her website i can sort of see where liam comes from :)14:51
diploheh, I've followed Nixie for years, she definitly does hang out a bit in shots but I find her knowledgable enough and enjoy her shows14:52
diploShe's certainly not the worst out there, I watch some ones about gaming/nerdy stuff hosted by a few girls and I can assure you they are sometimes less clothed and it's not the reason I watch it.14:53
diploI just enjoy the show14:53
diploAlthough attractive ladies do help :D14:53
christeli don't have a problem with it, lets face it, sex sells -- but i can understand that some people don't approve14:54
diploShe works for Revision3 I guess now14:55
daubersyeah, people are complicated. It's certainly become a very emotive topic in the OSS sphere14:55
diploBut worked for Logitech for a while ( won a competition i think actually )14:55
christeland from perusing his livejournal bio i can sort of see how her exceptionally liberal approach to life clashes a tad with his rather traditional view of himself :)14:55
* diplo takes everyone as they come14:56
diploExcept my ex-wife, I try to ignore her as much as possible :D14:56
christelalso, i wouldn't say she's particularly busty! :o14:58
christelsee, i just dislike people equally ;)14:58
daubersI like people individually, I have a hard time dealing with groups of people14:58
diploI think a lot of people in the IT/Tech field do daubers ( generilisation i know )14:59
davmor2christel: Sex sells, hmmm selling sex I wonder if we can have them all arrested for prostitution?14:59
diploBut I'm the same, and most techy/IT people I know are similar14:59
diploIt's why I was in two minds about Alans and left myself as a maybe14:59
daubersHeh, I can't commit to anything at the moment because the roof on the conservatory has a whole in it and if it's a sunny day I need to take the whole thing down and put it up properly15:00
* bigcalm hugs christel15:01
christelnow -- thingiewotsit -- liam said "15:01
christelnow -- thingiewotsit -- liam said "[b] I have no actual evidence that she is geeky; I think it may just15:01
christelbe a calculated move to appear so in order to win fans; I see no sign15:01
christelof real understanding of what she's discussing in what I've seen."15:01
christelto me that sounds like a Good Thing(tm) -- if we've reached a point where ubuntu is being used and advocated by "non-geeky" people.. then that is a major achievement for FOSS in general15:01
davmor2czajkowski: you see the things you start15:01
czajkowskilisten into mrevell http://www.brighttalk.com/webcast/6793/49175  on maas15:02
dauberschristel: Indeed! But it also has the "Linux Format Conundrum" in it. In that people who are very technical lost interest fast :) And that might be Liams point15:02
christeldaubers: but we don't really need them to be interested, they most likely are interested already and have moved well beyond the point at which she advocates the use of the distro15:02
diplodaubers: I'm not the only one that is thinking about unsubscribing then ?15:03
daubersdiplo: I did when i moved15:03
dauberschristel: I agree. I'd have thought Liam is outside of her target audience15:03
diploI keep thinking it's only £13 a quarter and what else would I read on the bog :)15:03
daubersdiplo: Heh, I looked at it as I could get a more interesting (to me) magazine for that money15:04
diploShare away if you have suggestions15:04
daubersdiplo: I was considering magazines outside the Linux sphere... so might not be interesting to others! (Among them Gardeners World and White Dwarf)15:05
diplonot heard of white dward15:05
ubuntuuk-planet[Jonathan Riddell] Akademy BoFs - http://blogs.kde.org/node/458815:06
diploDebated about subscribing to some comics and see how I get on with them, used to love them as a kid and teaching my boys to read at the mo15:06
diploWonder if it would help them to enjoy it more.15:07
daubersdiplo: White Dwarf is Games Workshop's (Warhammer) magazine15:07
diploTwo extremes there :)15:08
daubersheh :) I did consider "Make" magazine but I picked up a copy from WHSmiths and wasn't really taken15:10
diploI like magazines as I can pick them up and put them down15:18
bigcalmDon't you hate it when you can't remember the name of the hotel you're booked into for the weekend?15:38
bigcalmMakes finding the booking confirmation email a little tricky15:38
bigcalmFarnham folk: which hotel have I booked into? :D15:38
AlanBellis it the one with the love swings?15:45
AlanBellhotel de vie15:45
popeyhello sebsebseb15:46
* bigcalm tuts15:46
bigcalmYes, it's that hotel15:46
zleapI am working on a flyer thing now for developers,  so when i get a reply on the list I can add more useful info so people can get started15:46
bigcalmNo, the swings was not a deciding factor :P15:46
AlanBellyou will have to tell us all about it15:46
AlanBellwell, not *all* about it15:46
* bigcalm tuts15:46
popeyzleap, do developers tend to need flyers?15:46
daubersSpeaking of swings.... I've got a big set of swings in the garden that I need to get rid of. Anyone who wants them just needs to pring their own shovel15:47
sebsebsebhi popey and AlanBell15:47
popeyhttp://maps.skobbler.de/ nice UI on openstreetmap data!15:47
zleapnot sure,   but we are trying to reach out to people15:47
sebsebsebwhat's OGGCamp like, was thinking about maybe going this year.15:48
zleapmay inspire people who want to get in to programming and give them a starting point15:48
popeysebsebseb, awesome15:48
dauberssebsebseb: better than popey said15:48
bigcalmFound my booking confirmation, thank you :D15:49
sebsebsebHow general is it, I mean LInux distrowise?15:49
sebsebsebwell went to FOSDEM 2012 this year :)15:50
sebsebseb,but not been to any UK LInux opensource/freesoftware type events yet15:50
sebsebseboh and started going to my LUG this year :)15:51
popeyits not linux specific15:51
popeyand certainly not ubuntu specific15:51
popeysebsebseb, whereabouts in the UK are you based? are you near liverpool?15:52
sebsebseb,but since I have moved more away from Ubuntu, to contribute to another distro doing community stuff, I was wondering how general OGGCamp was.  also yeah I Have read that, it's not just Linux, it's a mixture of stuff15:52
sebsebsebpopey: no not quite, near Bristol15:53
sebsebsebhowever it seems two people from my LUG are going for example15:53
popeyI'm going :)15:53
sebsebsebyeah of course you are, but your organising it as well, so no wonder15:53
diploWhat date is it popey ?15:54
diploI'd like to visit a friend in Macclesfield, might combine the weekend15:54
sebsebsebpopey: I assume like other events, can give out Live CD's for distros and such to people :d  if want to15:55
diplono worries, just looked online15:55
dauberssebsebseb: Some people from the Thames Valley Rep Rap User Group are going too15:55
* sebsebseb might volunteer for a talk at OGGCam pI am not joking, did some public speaking earlier this year, only short Lightning Talks though15:55
sebsebsebthat was fun :)15:56
sebsebsebit's the weekend, after getting back from nearly two weeks in Sweden earlier in the week.  oh and probably whilst there won't have any or little Internet access as well.  So could be nice to go to a opensource type event on the weekend when back :d.15:58
sebsebsebdaubers: Auguat 18th and 19th16:01
daubersirk... that's only a month away.... should really start sorting out some video gear16:02
daubers(still waiting to know if it's really wanted or not mind.....)16:03
sebsebsebyeah and I should get travel and hotel sorted out, if going :d16:03
sebsebsebdaubers: uh if I was doing a talk there, I would want it videod :d16:03
sebsebsebthat's something else actually, when I looked on Youtube for OGGcamp not that many videos came up16:03
dauberssebsebseb: I've offered the gear (except a couple of cameras I need...) but haven't had a confirmed yes/no yet!16:03
sebsebsebdaubers: so you have been to OGGCamp before it seems, what can you tell me about it :d16:05
dauberssebsebseb: It's awesome fun. There's normally a talk for everyone (if not you should give a talk) and normally some interesting exhibits. The RepRap there last year was quite cool16:07
sebsebsebdaubers: and you  come back with loads of freebies and such like other events?16:07
dauberssebsebseb: Umm...... I've normally been helping out but I think that depends on the sponsors this year16:07
dauberssebsebseb: You come away knowing more awesome people than when you started :)16:08
sebsebsebyeah I guess so16:08
daubersThat's why I started going anyway16:09
sebsebseband I was looking at photos from a previous one16:09
daubersAlso why I offered to help. Since I'd not met many OSS people at the time, it was an easy way to meet new peoples16:09
sebsebsebit's outside?  or when the weather is right?16:09
dauberssebsebseb: Mostly inside16:09
sebsebsebexcept for talks I mean16:09
dauberssebsebseb: http://blip.tv/show/772977 <- videos16:10
sebsebsebdaubers: yeah that looks  better than what came up on Youtube when searching for OGGCamp16:12
dauberssebsebseb: Those where made thanks to AlanBell providing some stuff and my offices bandwidth being eaten :)16:13
daubersApparently bandwidth isn't an issue this yea16:13
sebsebsebdaubers: anyway so I can go there and try and gain some interest in the distro I contribute to now for example I guess :d 100%  community distro, non profit16:13
sebsebsebnewish still16:13
dauberssebsebseb: Absolutley. See if people are interested in going to your talk, or just take some LiveCD's and get them on a table somewhere :)16:14
dauberssebsebseb: Which distro?16:14
sebsebsebheh thought I would get asked that16:14
daubersthe mandriva replacement?16:15
christelbigcalm: when do you guys arrive? :)16:15
sebsebsebdaubers: the Mandriva fork yeah16:15
bigcalmchristel: lunchish, I hope16:15
daubersI cut my teeth on mandriva many many moons ago16:15
sebsebsebfounded by ex Mandriva employee's and volunteer contributors16:15
christelwe should Pub Pre-RAT i reckon16:16
christelthen all go to alton together from farnham16:16
* christel nods16:16
dauberssebsebseb: Plan a talk! See if you can get it voted up to be done :)16:16
sebsebsebdaubers: yeah might do that for this distro :)16:16
bigcalmchristel: it's 3+ hours without stopping. So I hope we set off early and have a relaxing drive :)16:16
bigcalmchristel: I was hoping that we could all go on the train together16:17
bigcalmChoo choo16:17
AlanBellchoo choo16:17
christelAlanBell: will Lord join us on saturday?16:17
AlanBellgo easy on the pre-RAT beers though16:17
AlanBellchristel: yes he will16:17
christelmmm maybe we could food before setting off? burgers at the mulburry or something?16:18
AlanBelloh those are epic16:18
* christel nods16:18
bigcalmI want to save the drinking for the train16:18
christeli <3 their burgers (they make me long for the days i could eat a whole one!)16:18
* daubers considers finishing work for the day and going home to make pies16:18
AlanBellI failed to complete a firehouse burger with popey and theopensourcerer a few weeks ago16:18
christeland they are superclose to the station16:18
bigcalmThe tickets say that they will bar people who are under the influence. Which is quite amusing :)16:18
AlanBellthat was scorchio16:19
AlanBelldon't forget the free pint voucher part of the ticket16:19
bigcalmI hope they are valid for other drinks as well. Hayley isn't one for ale sadly16:20
sebsebsebdaubers: yeah I read that some scheduled talks such as Stephen Fry via technology this year,  and whilst that's going on or whatever unscheduled voted in talks16:20
AlanBellbigcalm: there are other drinks (probably a cider and a small amount of wine/other stuff)16:21
bigcalmAlanBell: indeed, there are other drinks. It's whether or not the free drink voucher is valid for those :)16:22
AlanBellI have in mysql a view, which is sluggish to calculate. Is there an easy way to say "cache this and keep it for 24hours, I don't care if it goes out of date"16:22
AlanBellbigcalm: err, so you get two free pints ;)16:22
AlanBellthis is a solveable problem16:23
bigcalmAlanBell: yes, there is that option16:23
bigcalmAlanBell: is there a way to optimise your query?16:23
dogmatic69anyone know offhand that command to get dir size?16:23
bigcalmdu -chs ./16:23
dogmatic69bigcalm: ta16:24
bigcalmWelcome :)16:24
dogmatic69need to alias that one16:24
dogmatic69alias wtfhappenedtomyhdd16:24
AlanBellbigcalm: dunno really, basically I have customers, each customer has a bunch of recurring orders, one of which might be active16:25
sebsebsebAlanBell: so I want to ask this same question to you as well :d.  What's OGGCamp like? (altough I think I read some where that you have helped organise it in the past as well, but anyway)16:25
AlanBellit wants to display a list of customers with an active/inactive column which signifies whether they have one or more active orders16:25
AlanBellsebsebseb: oggcamp is fun, I helped on the video side of things at the last one which was close to my house. Liverpool is not close to my house.16:26
sebsebsebAlanBell: yeah Liverpool isn't close to my house either, but can travel16:26
AlanBellbigcalm: so there is this monster query view that gets joined to the customers table for display (well actually it is a 5 way join /o\)16:27
bigcalmAlanBell: that sounds so delightful!16:27
AlanBelland the query view seems to be the slow thing in the join, it makes sense that it is slow16:27
bigcalmAny chance of throwing it into a paste bin?16:28
AlanBelldunno if I should add a status field to the customer and set it in the overnight job16:31
AlanBellwhich is denormalisation and would be potentially slightly wrong, but might make things faster16:32
dogmatic69AlanBell: what is using the sql data?16:32
AlanBelldogmatic69: php web application called vtiger16:32
dogmatic69if you were using php / apc you could just apc_store() with a date, then check the cache first16:33
dogmatic69same for writing to disk, just more code needed16:33
dogmatic69not sure if mysql will do it direct somehow.16:33
AlanBellinteresting, I thought that was just for opcodes16:33
AlanBellI was thinking of memcached as a possible thing to use in places too16:34
dogmatic69nope, it does that mainly. but you can stick anything in it like memcache etc.16:34
bigcalmAlanBell: I don't see what would be slow about that query unless you have _a lot_ of data and no indices16:34
dogmatic69I use apc normally. no need for distributed cache yet16:34
dogmatic69ye, its not overly complex sql. Maybe you could run an explain for us?16:35
dogmatic69I think 'EXPLAIN view_name' works16:37
dogmatic69AlanBell: You dont seem to have any conditions in that find so it would pull out how ever many records there are16:37
AlanBellI don't think I am using explain correctly16:39
AlanBelljust tells me what columns are in the result16:39
popey<AlanBell> I failed to complete a firehouse burger with popey and theopensourcerer a few weeks ago16:43
popeythat was super tasty16:43
popeyand a tiny bit spicy :D16:43
AlanBellit was rather good16:43
* AlanBell reads up about explain16:43
popeyhey AlanBell fancy contributing to compiz? :)16:43
* popey is looking for a willing volunteer / victim16:44
AlanBellI have a contribution in my todo list anyway16:44
popeyah ok16:44
popeyi might take a look myself :s16:44
AlanBellwhat area is this in then?16:44
AlanBellI need to fix some indentation and style issues on the text tracking zoom thing16:45
AlanBelland get it building so I can actually test it16:45
davmor2bigcalm: this might be of interest to you being as you hate yourself ;) IntelliJ IDEA Community Edition16:47
bigcalmdavmor2: is it only for Java?16:48
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
davmor2bigcalm: ah so netbeans is multilanuage then?16:49
davmor2bigcalm: oh well you will hate it too then :D16:49
davmor2bigcalm: see how I thought of you though :)16:50
AlanBellhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/1088292/ is the query that the view gets used in16:50
bigcalmI use it only for PHP, which makes it a lot lighter16:50
bigcalmdavmor2: so kind :D16:50
brobostigonthere is version of safari for windows isnt there? otherwise i think i have found a bug in google anaytics.16:52
bigcalmThere is16:52
brobostigonok, good, phew.16:53
bigcalmAnd you can run it on linux via wine16:53
brobostigonbigcalm: but wouldnt it then report it still as running in windows? in analytics.16:53
* bigcalm shrugs16:54
bigcalmIt's whatever the user agent says it is16:54
bigcalmSo the windows version running in wine will still have the windows user agent version16:54
brobostigonbecause the interesting thing is, it says people have used safari to visit my site, however mac os x nor ios shows in the OS vistor usage.16:55
bigcalmMozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB) AppleWebKit/533.16 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0 Safari/533.1616:55
bigcalmThat's what it says for my copy running in wine16:55
brobostigonmake sense now. it must be people unning it either in windows, or under wine.16:56
bigcalmChances of people bothering to run safari in wine are slim16:56
bigcalmI do it because I'm a web dev and have to16:56
bigcalmIt's that or use windows16:56
bigcalmI would treat them as edge cases16:57
brobostigonbigcalm: thank you for your insight.16:58
bigcalmbrobostigon: most welcome16:58
popeybrobostigon, thats an ipad17:04
popeyVersion/5.0 Safari/533.16 gives that away17:05
gord*cough* steam sales started17:05
gordi know there is no steam on ubuntu... but steam sales started17:05
popeyoh, windows.. odd17:06
brobostigonpopey: interesting, yes. but still doesnt fit.17:06
popeyprobably lies then :)17:06
popeypeople fake their user agent shocker17:06
brobostigonpopey: good point, yes.17:06
popeygord, my mate uses steam on ubuntu for most of his gaming17:06
gordyeah but wine :(17:07
popeysome of the applications in the developer contest look interesting17:07
shaunoa bit late, but the ipad says it's an ipad in the user-agent.  it doesn't claim to be XP17:09
bigcalmpopey: :(17:09
popeywell indeed17:10
bigcalmBut good for them :)17:10
AlanBellhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/1088384/ so what does the so row mean? that appears to be possibly the problem, but I don't understand what bit of the query it comes from?17:43
AlanBellthere is no table called "so" in the database17:46
AlanBelland it isn't anywhere in the query17:46
livingdaylightpopey / AlanBell : Yo!17:58
dogmatic69AlanBell: I would say this is your problem18:02
dogmatic691 | SIMPLE      | so                    | ALL    | NULL                          | NULL    | NULL    | NULL                                         | 10157 |18:02
dogmatic69no index and 10k rows18:02
AlanBell yeah, but what is it?18:05
AlanBellso isn't a table in the database18:05
dogmatic69ye, strange18:05
dogmatic69you had so in your VIEW18:05
dogmatic69Ah I see.. vtiger_fo_view_account_info.stats18:06
dogmatic69That is the view which does the so.foo stuff18:06
dogmatic69add an index for two fields something like alter table add index account_info (accountid, sostatus) on the vtiger_salesorder table18:08
dogmatic69create index account_info ON vtiger_salesorder(accountid, sostatu);18:09
dogmatic69that should work18:09
dauberspopey, AlanBell since you're around (this isn't an Ubuntu question) I'm interested in what you guys would want from a hackspace (for context, I'm looking into ways of invigorating the Reading Hackspace community more).18:10
AlanBelldogmatic69: aaah, an alias in the view definition, now it makes sense18:13
* AlanBell declares dogmatic69 to be full of win and is hereby owed a beer (or alternative beverage)18:16
AlanBelldaubers: sure, I had quite a few thoughts about hackspaces, I think to ramp up the numbers you need to appeal to a wider audience18:17
AlanBelldaubers: which means going for more intro level stuff, and having a more attractive and appealing place than is strictly neccessary18:18
daubersAlanBell: That's a given, but I don't know what the rest of that audiance wants.... hence the questions :)18:18
AlanBellhttps://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/sh-hackspace/UR8Pua57HsE here is my general thoughts18:19
dogmatic69AlanBell: so the index worked for you?18:19
AlanBelland here is me doing a mini ragequit https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/sh-hackspace/IzO8k4VhFBg18:20
daubersAlanBell: I'm not convinced on the "office" type thing tbh.... I think you can make any spae appealing18:20
daubersAlanBell: I'd read the rage quit :)18:20
AlanBelloffice space stuff was chucked in to get the utilisation of the space up really18:20
daubersOh, that I understood, I meant more as in the look and feel of a space18:21
AlanBelldogmatic69: yeah, it works on the explain, doesnt appear to make the UI much faster, but I need to do some real testing on that18:21
ali1234soldering isn't clean. not when i do it anyway18:21
ali1234unless you like burnt desks, flux, and smoke18:22
dogmatic69AlanBell: you can paste a new explain if you like18:22
AlanBelldaubers: yeah, look and feel can be fixed in the space, it also has to be in a not-too-scary location18:22
ali1234oh and lead18:22
AlanBelldogmatic69: ^^18:22
AlanBellali1234: I love burned desks, flux and smoke18:23
daubersAlanBell: Hmm.... I have a half formed plan... but need more people input18:23
dogmatic69AlanBell: cool, the top one is still suspect. one second18:25
ali1234no you don;t18:25
ali1234that's a common fallacy18:25
dogmatic69AlanBell: you do where vtiger_account.accountid > 0. why would the accountid be <= 018:26
AlanBelldaubers: another thing I would do is value the kit, one of my objections to the hackspace was that for £360/year I could get access to an empty shed (they refused to budget for kit), or I could go to B&Q and load up the car with toys from the powertools aisle18:26
AlanBelldogmatic69: good question, it wouldn't ever be18:26
dogmatic69I think you are forcing a where and confusing mysql18:26
dogmatic69it has to do a whole table scan to find everything anyway18:27
daubersAlanBell: Someone else said that... and I feel it's putting the emphasis in the wrong place. I might be wrong on that... but I'll add the idea to the list18:27
ali1234AlanBell: i don't see your point18:27
ali1234tools are useless if you have nowhere to use them18:28
ali1234it's called hackerspace not hackertoolsrental18:28
AlanBellthis is true, I use mine in the garden18:28
AlanBellI get the point about the space being more than the tools18:28
ali1234also i would love to know how you rent a shed for £360/year, one that has electricity...18:29
AlanBellbut if I was paying £30/month for membership of the space I wouldn't have much disposable income for materials to actually make anything18:29
ali1234£30/month? that'sa bit steep18:30
AlanBellI might not be the target demographic at all18:30
AlanBellali1234: yeah, thats what I thought too18:30
ali1234should be a pay as you go model18:31
AlanBellthat doesn't work18:31
AlanBellit needs to be like gym membership model18:31
ali1234it doesn't work if you are trying to run it as a business18:31
AlanBellpeople pay up every month and never turn up, they just get to tell their significant other that they did as they were asked and joined a gym18:32
AlanBellthese members subsidise the ones who go every day18:32
ali1234you should look into how musicians do it18:32
ali1234practice rooms18:32
ali1234every band knows where the local practice room is18:32
ali1234this is usually ina disused factory18:32
ali1234and shared with all the other local bands18:32
ali1234the same locations would be ideal for hackspaces18:33
AlanBellyup, this bunch wanted to get a commercial unit, which is fine, but when they had a plan that resulted in a £3.5k deficit and still figured it was fine to proceed I bailed out18:34
AlanBelltrading while insolvent is a bit naughty18:34
daubersAlanBell: We've found it helps to be more flexible than that.... we have some "pay as you go members" and some people who just turn up on the open hack evenings (no charge for those)18:34
ali1234the problem with your office space idea is anything i can do in an office i can sit and home and do too18:34
AlanBellyeah, I have screaming kids, so I rent a nice office18:34
AlanBellbut it isn't about the office space, it is about utilisation18:35
AlanBellwhat you can't do is have the space idle18:35
daubersAlanBell: Reading is idle quite frequently18:35
daubersthere are other interest groups who pay to use the space though (once or twice a week)18:35
AlanBelland Ryan is no doubt feeling the pain of that a bit18:36
ali1234well, you can18:36
daubersNot as much as you'd think...18:36
daubersWe're nearly at break18:36
dauberseveneven (2 membersihips I think)18:36
daubersand the space is still idle18:37
dauberssome days anyway18:37
ali1234this is why you contact musician18:37
ali1234they don't care about noise and they don't care about dirty practice rooms18:37
AlanBellthat would be a great thing to do with a space to boost utilisation18:38
ali1234also they are in thhe same boat18:39
ali1234they use a room for a couple of hours a day18:39
ali1234or 1 day a week18:39
ali1234really they use he exact same model as a hackerspace to run these places, except they been doing it for a lot longer18:40
AlanBelldogmatic69: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088483/ that is odd, it returns more rows when I take the accountid>0 bit out18:41
daubersAlanBell: A different question, do you know anyone who is a teacher who might be willing to answer some questions for beer?18:41
AlanBelldaubers: yeah, I have a heap of teachers on twitter18:41
dauberss/beer/some help with something18:41
AlanBellin fact twitter is the best place to talk to teachers18:42
daubersAlanBell: I'm interested in how we as a hackspace can help them18:42
AlanBellinteresting question, people were saying that students might be target members and they were all concerned about public transport access18:43
ali1234public transport is a must18:43
AlanBellI felt that was irrelevant as students are not going to pay £30/month for it, and have access to better facilities already18:43
ali1234they won't pay £30 of course. but they probably don't have better access unless they are university students18:44
AlanBelldepending on what they are doing, I certainly had better access at secondary school, but not uni18:44
AlanBellwe had an awesome metalwork room18:44
ali1234my secondary school had amazing equipment18:44
* AlanBell wanted to be a blacksmith18:44
ali1234however we were never allowed to use it18:44
AlanBellstill do really18:44
ali1234because someone had to be there to supervise at all times18:45
ali1234and because you got two hours a week in that lesson, 75% of which was theory18:45
AlanBellI think we had a pretty cool teacher, did after school stuff every day and didn't like teaching theory18:46
AlanBellwanted us to have fun with hot metal18:46
ali1234the other 25% was spent learning how to use each piece of equipment. so it was like "this week, how to bend plastic on the strip bender" - everyone takes turns bending a piece of plastic18:47
ali1234if you actually wanted to make something, no chance18:47
daubersAlanBell: They won't pay... but their parents might pay on a different scale18:47
daubersAlanBell: Rdg has a member who is a blacksmith18:48
AlanBellso we had one person say on the list they couldn't commit to a monthly membership but wanted to pop along a few times a month on a daily £5 pay as you go fee, as long as they could do about 6 hours of hacking18:49
AlanBellthey thought this sounded perfectly reasonable, as did everyone else I think18:49
ali1234i'd want to do something like that18:49
AlanBellnow we were talking about a 500sqft hackspace, maybe room for 5 people to hack at a time18:49
AlanBellso lets say 12 hours utilisation a day18:50
ali123424 hours man18:50
ali1234gotta have it open 24 hours18:50
AlanBell10 people per day would fit, per day, lets say 30 days fully utilised per month18:50
daubersAlanBell: We have people who do do that18:50
AlanBelland multiplying that out, meant that it would be £250/month short on the costs18:51
AlanBellso yeah you can have people doing that, but it isn't a fully proportional contribution to the costs18:51
daubers(we don't count those on the memberships)18:51
ali1234i don't think you can make a rule system that keeps everyone happy and also maximises use18:52
AlanBellprobably not18:52
ali1234really though if someone is paying £5 per day and they use it for 2 days a month vs £30 for someone who uses it 25 days a month18:53
AlanBellyou just need to do the figures that show that a realistic plan exceeds the rent18:53
ali1234they the £5/day person is getting the much worse deal18:53
AlanBellali1234: what it needs is lots of people who pay £30/month and hardly ever turn up, like a gym18:54
ali1234that is totally unrealistic18:54
AlanBelland some people will use it 25 days one month and then not turn up for a couple of months18:54
ali1234what it actually needs is lots of people who will pay £5/day for 2 days18:54
AlanBellor get disinterested and do other stuff and wait 6 months before cancelling the standing order18:54
ali1234what is the estimated costs?18:55
ali1234honestly a space with room for 5 people is probably too big18:55
Laneynottinghack has a pretty large space18:56
Laneyapparently it costs them 800/month18:56
Laneyno idea how they fund it18:56
AlanBellthere are two scenarios there, one for this £500/month place and one for a high end clean and shiny mass market maker space18:56
ali1234so you're talking about 1500 for a space for 5 people18:58
ali1234all inclusive18:58
ali1234well 1500/5 = 30018:59
ali1234or £10/day18:59
ali1234that's just too expensive18:59
ali1234doesn't matter how you split it up19:00
AlanBellI am not sure if it is a 5 person space really, it is 500 square foot, now 100sqft is a small bedroom, good for a single bed, double bed might just fit, but not with a wardrobe19:00
AlanBellso I think 5 people doing stuff including space for machines and storage would be about full19:01
ali123410ft x 10ft x 519:01
ali1234that's enough for more than 519:01
ali1234perhaps 7 or 819:01
ali1234thing is i find it unlikely you can get 5 people using it 100% of the time19:01
AlanBella couple might be sat on beanbags having a cup of tea or whatever19:02
shaunoI was about to say that.  ours isn't much bigger than that.  you cna over-subscribe floorspace pretty well.  everyone finds the time of day that suits them, no-one camps out 24/719:02
ali1234yeah those people don't need 100sqft each though :)19:02
shaunothey're members, not tennants.  they're paying for membership, not 10x1019:03
AlanBelltrue, but 5 didn't seem unrealistic, might be a bit low19:03
dogmatic69AlanBell: you could try right joins instead of inner19:04
ali1234doesn't matter. SOMEONE is paying for the 10x10 eventually19:04
AlanBellinteresting, thanks dogmatic69 I will have a look at that19:04
ali1234in the end i think you can get cheaper19:04
shaunoright, but I'm saying 'space for 5' isn't '5 members'.  it's 5 concurrent users before they're forced to start socialising19:04
dogmatic69inner will get rows if either side of the join matches, right will only get rows if the join exists19:05
AlanBellali1234: I suggested they find someone with a double garage they can run power to19:05
dogmatic69with right and no > 0 condition should be the same I think19:05
ali1234i prefr the idea of industrial space with no neighbours19:05
daubersAlanBell: Speaking to Paul the other day, it would probably be easier to find a farmer with a spare outbuilding19:05
diploevening all19:05
ali1234farmers live in the middle of nowhere, no public transport19:06
=== sebsebseb is now known as sebsebsebb
daubersali1234: as a starting point, it's pretty good, and if you get the right mix of people it's not necessarily a problem19:06
ali1234where "right" = has a car?19:07
daubers"right" = can bum a lift from other members :)19:08
AlanBelldogmatic69: RIGHT JOIN instead of INNER JOIN returns the same data and the same explain results19:09
dogmatic69AlanBell: you change all the inners?19:10
AlanBelldogmatic69: yeah, all of them19:11
ali1234if you can find 10 people who use it 25 days a month for 6 hours a day and pay £30/month, and 10 people who use it 2 days a month for 6 hours a day to pay £10/month, that gives you a budget of £400 and an average usage level of 2.5 people assuming 24 hours opening19:11
dogmatic69ok, back to how it was then. Does that accountid field have an index atleast?19:11
AlanBellhow do I tell?19:12
dogmatic69show create table table_name;19:13
dogmatic69show create table vtiger_account; specifically19:13
MartijnVdSshow create table ?19:14
AlanBellhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/1088542/ so it is the primary key, does that automatically mean it is an index?19:15
dogmatic69MartijnVdS: that out's the create statement which has the keys19:15
dogmatic69AlanBell: should be19:15
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: ah, \d shows it too in postgresql :)19:15
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: maybe too used to that :)19:15
dogmatic69MartijnVdS: just '\d'?19:15
MartijnVdS\d tablename19:15
MartijnVdS\d shows a list of tables, sequences, views19:16
dogmatic69postgresql is clunky to me. not used it much19:16
MartijnVdS\d<letters> can show more19:16
* MartijnVdS likes postgres a lot more than others19:16
MartijnVdSother dbms19:16
dogmatic69AlanBell: as that is the pk its strange that its not using it19:16
daubersAlanBell, ali1234: Thanks for the ideas. Will add them to my little list19:17
dogmatic69It must be due to the > 019:17
dogmatic69AlanBell: how about... with the data you get back, is there one result per vtiger_account.accountid ?19:18
AlanBelldogmatic69: yes19:18
dogmatic69if that is the case, you could swap out the > 0 for a group by vtiger_account.accountid HAVING vtiger_account.accountid > 019:18
dogmatic69... WHERE vtiger_crmentity.deleted =0 GROUP BY vtiger_account.accountid HAVING vtiger_account.accountid > 019:19
dogmatic69using HAVING my change the way the query optimiser works19:20
dogmatic69If that fails, you can tell mysql what index to use (last resort I think)19:20
AlanBellit doesn't return identical data19:22
dogmatic69how many rows with the group by?19:22
AlanBellboth do 20 rows19:23
AlanBellit is offset by 6 places19:23
AlanBellmight be deleted records19:24
dogmatic69bah. Just noticed.. it actually is using the pk with > 019:24
AlanBellI think I might poke other places for optimisations for a while19:24
ali1234wait, why is there a £500 fee for "accountancy"?19:24
ali1234find someone who will do it for free in return for a membership!19:25
dogmatic69AlanBell: Can you tell me how fast it is if you do "SELECT SQL_NO_CACHE ...."19:25
dogmatic69or slow19:25
AlanBellali1234: yeah, that would be something that could be removed easily if they found someone19:26
AlanBell20 rows in set (0.01 sec)19:27
dogmatic69you cant get quicker than that19:28
dogmatic69must be the php ?19:28
AlanBell20 rows in set (0.00 sec)19:28
AlanBellquicker ;)19:28
dogmatic69unless the select is returning like 45MB that needs to be transferred, but doubt that.19:28
AlanBellyeah, PHP is doing lots of crazy, and there are other queries going on to build the page, some repeated lots of times19:28
dogmatic69AlanBell: you have slow query logging enabled?19:29
AlanBellno, I think adding the index to the view sorted that part out19:29
AlanBellI did do some work with slow query logging, but there are not many slow queries happening19:29
dogmatic69run that, will give some good advice19:29
AlanBellit just sometimes does like 118 queries to build a page19:29
dogmatic69that is not much if they all take 0.0119:30
MartijnVdSwhat's this? Joomla?19:30
dogmatic69MartijnVdS: ITS PHP!!!!eleven!!11!119:30
* bigcalm returns yet again19:30
AlanBelldogmatic69: yeah, it isn't masses in total, but it is kind of chatty19:30
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: reddit.com/r/lolphp for you :)19:30
AlanBellI think that doing the horizontal scaling thing and putting mysql on a separate machine would just kill it19:31
dogmatic69MartijnVdS: is that a bunch of circle jerking on param order?19:31
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: nah19:32
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: just people laughing at PHP bugs :)19:32
dogmatic69this is the best ticket I have ever seen. https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=5069619:32
dogmatic69will go down in the history books19:33
dogmatic69AlanBell: Might want to install xhprof19:33
AlanBelldogmatic69: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/contact.png19:34
dogmatic69good job, that was quick :P19:34
AlanBellfun isn't it19:36
shaunomy favourite php bug is not being able to use classes/methods that contain a capital I in the name, if you switch to the turkish locale.19:36
ali1234explain please?19:37
dogmatic69AlanBell: you should do something like https://github.com/Infinitas-Plugins/developer/blob/master/Xhprof/Lib/xhprof.php#L5019:37
dogmatic69ignore some methods, so its easier to see what is going on19:38
shaunothe locale is applied to the method names too. I have no idea why.  and in turkish, I isn't an upper-case i19:38
shaunohttps://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=35050  'wontfix'19:39
bigcalmThe biggest problem with PHP are its users :)19:41
dogmatic69s/its/some of its/19:44
dogmatic69My biggest gripe with php is the low barrier to entry.19:44
AlanBellI don't like the way it is mixed up in an HTML page19:45
dogmatic69Its worse than the UK border agency19:45
dogmatic69AlanBell: it is a templating language. the OOP us bolted on top. there are talks of ditching <?php ... files and have php only stuff19:46
dogmatic69similar to a .c file I guess19:46
AlanBellphp stands for Personal Home Page19:46
dogmatic69used to19:46
AlanBellor it did until it went recursive19:46
AlanBellPHP Hypertext Preprocessor19:47
dogmatic69ye. it changed to that years ago19:47
bigcalmIs there a better way of finding the end of a month than this? SELECT DATE_SUB(DATE_ADD('2012-02-01', INTERVAL 1 MONTH), INTERVAL 1 DAY);19:47
dogmatic69yes, one sec19:48
dogmatic69replace now() with what ever date19:49
dogmatic69if you want the time too CONCAT_WS(" ", LAST_DAY(:model.:datetime), "23:59:59")19:49
bigcalmdogmatic69: thank you :)19:49
bigcalmI liked my work around, but yours is more direct!19:49
dogmatic69looks like this has been converted to #mysql19:49
imanc_is there a gnome command to move all windows out of the way thus clearing the desktop?19:50
dogmatic69window key + d?19:50
bigcalmI'm being passed the year and month, I need to then fetch all records that happened in that year/month. Going to use BETWEEN, unless you know of a better method :)19:51
imanc_doesn't seem to do anything19:51
Azelphurgot my scottevest today :D19:51
dogmatic69I just do alt + tab then keeping alt in hit shift + tab twice19:51
Azelphurmum couldn't even figure out that I was carrying a 10.1 inch netbook in my pocket19:51
Azelphurawesome coat is awesome.19:51
imanc_dogmatic69, wow, that sort of worked. Not sure i can recreate it tho19:52
dogmatic69imanc_: ctrl + alt + d19:52
imanc_dogmatic69, doesn't work19:52
imanc_i'm using 12.04 btw19:52
dogmatic69hold windows key down for 5 seconds19:53
bigcalmdogmatic69: that does nothing for me in xfce :)19:53
imanc_I guess alt-f4 closes down windows19:54
dogmatic69that is like exit though19:54
imanc_dogmatic69,  ctrl+super=d19:55
imanc_ ctrl+super+d19:55
imanc_dogmatic69, in osx it shows the desktop :)19:55
imanc_I thought i was onto something 'till I realised xchat had vanished19:55
dogmatic69this is ubuntu though :P19:55
dogmatic69did you hack about your 12.04 install ?19:56
dogmatic69mine is pretty standard besides extra apps19:56
imanc_I have just got it installed on a new comp - i've had it trying to do python dev on osx19:56
imanc_I haven't hacked it at all tho19:56
dogmatic69but gnome?19:56
imanc_well - it's using the default window manager - I thought that was gnome with 12.04?19:57
dogmatic69bigcalm: sorry, missed your message about between. I might have something better in my bag of tricks19:57
bigcalmHeh, cool19:58
imanc_dogmatic69, ahh, got it.  So many window managers..19:58
dogmatic69bigcalm: everything for just the selected year / month?19:58
bigcalmAnd some other conditions, but that's the bit to do with date19:58
dogmatic69where YEAR(date_field) = $year AND MONTH(date_field) = $month ...19:59
bigcalmOh, I see :)19:59
dogmatic69or you can do CONCAT_WS("-", YEAR(date_field), MONTH(date_field)) = '2012-02'20:00
dogmatic69so php would be "CONCAT_WS(....) = ". date('Y-m', strtotime($fullDate))20:01
bigcalmI'm passing this into Doctrine as well20:01
dogmatic69never used it much20:01
bigcalmDon't want to get too specific for MySQL20:01
dogmatic69ah ok20:01
dogmatic69is this a personal project?20:01
dogmatic69open source etc20:02
bigcalmNewp, work20:02
dogmatic69multi engine support is a pita20:02
dogmatic69forget concat_ws then20:02
bigcalmIt's currently using MySQL. But best to keep ones options open :)20:02
bigcalmSELECT * FROM payment WHERE YEAR(created_at) = 2012 AND MONTH(created_at) = 7;20:02
dogmatic69not portable, unless doctrine is magic20:02
bigcalmThat's good enough :)20:02
bigcalmDoctrine and Propel are two PHP ORMs that can use multiple database engines20:03
bigcalmI happen to be using Doctrine this time20:03
dogmatic69cake too20:03
imanc_bigcalm, are you using them with an mvc framework?20:04
bigcalmimanc_: Symfony 1.420:04
dogmatic69bigcalm: missing cake?20:06
bigcalmdogmatic69: not really. I only use CakePHP for 1 existing project20:06
bigcalmWe use Symfony when we start from scratch20:06
imanc__django ftw20:06
dogmatic69oh ok20:06
bigcalmimanc__: wrong language :)20:07
imanc__no right language :)20:07
imanc__When I check settings / details / graphics, i see "driver: unknown / experience: standard"20:08
imanc__but according to Ubuntu's hardware certification for this laptop I'm using the following driver:20:09
imanc__Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller20:09
imanc__Just trying to figure out if I need to install a specific driver and if so, how20:10
dogmatic69I think the intel ones are good. nvidia needs proprietary drivers20:13
imanc_yeh, lshw seems to show that20:14
=== sw is now known as ws
=== ws is now known as sw
imanc_is there a way of getting a list of all installed apps in unity, or is it just a case of searching for 'em with super+A ?20:38
AlanBellimanc_: ls /usr/share/applications is pretty close20:47
AlanBellor you can write something to talk to the applications lens on dbus20:48
dogmatic69How can I find out what is using port 80?20:51
AlanBelltelnet localhost 8021:01
* bigcalm slumps21:01
bigcalmTaxi duties over for the night21:01
bigcalmBack to coding I go21:01
christeli do wonder where i put the RAT tickets :x21:13
christeli remember unpacking them after moving and going "I must put these somewhere safe"21:14
imanc_AlanBell, thanks21:16
bigcalmchristel: please don't worry me like that21:18
christelbigcalm: haha21:18
christelthey will be here.. somewhere21:18
christelsomewhere, er, safe.21:18
dogmatic69What would cause @    WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!     @21:32
dogmatic69on ssh.21:32
dogmatic69would updating from 10.10 -> 12.04 do that?21:32
bigcalmA change in machine details would, yes21:33
dogmatic69hmm, I rebooted and logged in since then...21:34
bigcalmJust edit ~/.ssh/known_hosts and remove the offending lines21:34
dogmatic69so I was logged in, watching tv. came back to "write failed, broken pipe". and this21:34
dogmatic69yea, I know how to overcome it21:34
bigcalmMaybe this is actually one of those times.21:35
bigcalmUsually it's me doing something silly21:35
dogmatic69If someone is doing something silly, I dont want them infecting my ssh21:35
dogmatic69I will go through a dummy server, if that makes a difference21:36
dogmatic69all the files I uploaded are gone :/21:38
bigcalmIs it possible you've logged into a different server?21:38
dogmatic69no, I think the host formatted it21:39
bigcalmThat will be the reason for the warning then21:39
dogmatic69this is the problem with dealing with retards21:39
dogmatic69it was 10.10 and I wanted 12.0421:39
* bigcalm hugs bytemark21:39
dogmatic69The client was messing about so I just done the upgrade21:40
dogmatic69now its formatted again..21:40
bigcalmBlame the client21:40
dogmatic69And I had just finished installing everything, for the 3rd time21:41
bigcalmpopey: you have returned!22:08
andylockranhey all22:14
andylockranlooking around a flat tomorrow, potentially to buy22:14
andylockranit comes with Control4, home automation (underfloor heating, lighting and audio)22:14
andylockranthere's even a TV in the shower (waterproof) and a mirror with embedded FM radio.22:15
AzelphurI want it.22:15
andylockranbut, my question, is has Control4 - anyone know of success with playing with it22:15
andylockranI also want some funny ideas - my girlfriends is to set up 'who wants to be a millionaire music' to come on at high volume when you dim the lights - then the heating will turn up too22:16
andylockranthat way, it'll give the effect of stress for our quiz nights22:16
bigcalmGood morning22:17
andylockranor raipdough/articulate .etc22:17
andylockransounds fun eh?22:25
=== sebsebsebb is now known as sebsebseb
dogmatic69how can I install a specific version of imagemagic?22:37
bigcalmPin it22:39
bigcalmBut what's wrong with the current version?22:39
dogmatic69on my local dev I have ImageMagick 6.6.0-4 works fine, on live ImageMagick 6.6.9-7 broken22:40
dogmatic69how do you "pin it"22:40
dogmatic69this has been two long days of crap :(22:40
bigcalmUg, I'll be googling now22:40
dogmatic69they are both 12.0422:41
dogmatic69but the one that works was a 12.04b upgrade. the other is installed today22:41
bigcalmSo why has one installed a newer version?22:41
dogmatic69I dont know22:42
bigcalmThey are going with letters now rather than .1 .2 .3. 4?22:42
dogmatic69working: Version: ImageMagick 6.6.0-4 2012-04-30 Q1622:42
dogmatic69broken: Version: ImageMagick 6.6.9-7 2012-04-30 Q1622:42
dogmatic69I have done 3 clean installs one 10.10 that was live -> 12.04, 10.10 clean -> 12.04 and now clean 12.0422:43
dogmatic693 installs..22:44
dogmatic69This is the issue http://bin.cakephp.org/view/17766557822:44
dogmatic69all I find on google was reported in 2011-0522:45
dogmatic69bigcalm: pinning is for ubuntu / debain only22:50
bigcalmdogmatic69: it's for apt22:50
dogmatic69"Pinning is a process that allows you to remain on a stable release of Ubuntu (or any other debian system) while grabbing packages from a more recent version."22:50
dogmatic69ye, blocks os updates, not packages22:51
bigcalmRead further down22:51
bigcalmThere's an example for pinning firefox22:51
bigcalmAnother example: http://2bits.com/drupal-planet/various-ways-running-php-52-ubuntu-1004-lucid-lynx.html22:51
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
bigcalmSleepy time23:02

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!