[01:34] sigh, my internet randomly went down :( [02:47] hmm webm encoding is quite slow === pangolin is now known as IdleOne [06:59] Morning all [07:17] AlanBell: rar! are we meeting somewhere pre-RAT? :) [07:29] christel: no specific plans yet === alan_g is now known as alan_g|afk [07:34] nod [07:40] Morning [07:41] morning [07:43] not a nice day, i have my mums eldest systers funeral to go to. [07:47] horribly off-topic, but to translate some troubleshooting steps for a windows user, what'd be their equivalent of 'dig' ? [07:48] nslookup [07:49] I can't figure out how to force nslookup to use 53/tcp instead of udp, hence dig [07:50] http://blog.thesysadmins.co.uk/nslookup-common-usage-examples.html [07:50] Never tried, will take a lookup :) [07:50] (battle of the firewalls; one site isn't allowing 53/udp out, the other isn't allowing 53/tcp in; dns usually accepts both, but this combination means neither option passes) [07:51] set vc ? [07:51] http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winserverNIS/thread/611b376f-dae4-476d-81a1-195a3a675242/ [07:51] about halfway down the page they talk about it [07:52] sounds promising (had no idea what a virtual circuit was ;), cheers :) [07:56] Good morning peeps :) [07:56] any idication yet, as to if i were to order a nexus 7 , when shipping would occur? [07:56] good morning bigcalm :) [08:00] brobostigon, google says 27th [08:02] popey: ok, cool, day of my birthday, :) === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk === alan_g|afk is now known as alan_g| === alan_g| is now known as alan_g [08:17] Is it the weekend yet? [08:18] it is only thursday. [08:21] brobostigon: damn [08:24] :( [08:31] major O2 outage in the UK, seems to be resolved in some areas now. [08:35] yeah my friend in Kent wasn't affected at all, but lots around my area were [08:35] Happily it didn't affect users of GiffGaff [08:36] Good morning all! o/ [08:40] I'm after a browser that apes Firefox's behaviour where I can type the name of a bookmark and hit 'enter', but that doesn't ape firefox's pillaging of my ram [08:40] any suggestions? [08:40] it's not chromium or opera [08:40] Looking at the BBC website, its saying that GiffGaff & Tesco mobile were affected, probably the same bloke that did an update at RBS/Nat West and broke their systems changed jobs to work at O2 [08:41] :D [08:41] Well DJones, loads of people on O2 around here who were affected but my giffgaff didn't stop all day so not sure what the issue was [08:42] diplo: Did you see the O2 suggestion on how to get your phone working for calls? Switch your 3G service off [08:42] yeah, o2 3g is still down. 2g supposedly fixed [08:43] My 3g has been on the whole time [08:43] Odd [08:55] i have emergency calls only on my giffgaff phone atm [08:55] data is working [08:56] BigRedS, maybe synapse will due the bookmark thing for you, p.s. firefox is better on ram lately [08:56] my giffgaff was ok yesterday strangely [08:58] yeah, I've just downloaded firefox straight from mozilla [08:58] not liking the idea of TB getting even less dev time though. It's already the only not-atrocious free mail client... [08:59] what features are required? exchange support would be nice [08:59] proper activesync support [08:59] IMAP support and not needing 2G of RAM [09:00] The whole point of IMAP is that the server does all the work; thunderbird shouldn't feel the need to download 200,000 mail headers, just the last 20 [09:00] y'know, like the spec says... [09:01] mine seems to work ok [09:01] thats cos i disabled offline storage [09:02] also have 250MB RAM usage for a quillion emails [09:02] * BigRedS hunts down that checkbox and unticks it [09:02] maybe that'll fix that [09:03] inbox -right mouse, properties, synchroniszaTION [09:03] unselect offline use [09:03] morning all [09:04] yeah, I just did that [09:04] Morning davmor2 [09:04] there is also a global setting but i don't trust it [09:06] morning bigcalm thanks for the text dude :) [09:07] davmor2: hope you're ok man [09:08] bigcalm: Yeah nackered it's been a long week and there are 2 days left :) [09:16] * bigcalm gives these 2 days an evil stare [09:16] So tired, want it to be the weekend [09:17] Though that does mean a long drive down to Farnham [09:18] Urgh, get back to the UK on Tuesday afternoon, get sent to London on Friday :( [09:19] daubers: loads of time to recover :) [09:22] should the Ubuntu One music store work in Quantal? [09:23] U1 was broken yesterday, maybe it still is [09:26] They said it was fixed on twitter late afternoon i though [09:26] +t [09:26] I just get "Connecting you to the Ubuntu One Music Store..." in rhythmbox [09:27] I haven't clicked that for about 2 years so it might not be a recent breakage [09:28] AlanBell: works fine for me in P [09:28] ok [09:29] heh. WD are releasing a new range of drives, "red", due to the previous "green" series being completely unusable in always-on workloads like NAS [09:34] I have a 3TB WD green drive specifically for a mostly-off workload [09:34] my root drive is a 16GB SD card and that is a mounted storage area [09:41] directhex: isn't that what black were for? [09:41] were/are [09:56] handy terminal is handy [09:59] #blenderQA [09:59] :( im trying to connect to freenode beldnerQA does anyone know how i connect to it? [09:59] blender [09:59] /join #blenderQA [09:59] paul2978: type /join #blenderQA [09:59] that without the space at the beginning, paul2978 [10:00] thanks Alanbell & dawtkins how to i rejoin this chat afterwards? [10:00] paul2978: no point, its empty [10:00] lol ok [10:00] paul2978: you should remain here in this tab/window [10:00] paul2978: your irc client should have tabs etc [10:00] one per channel [10:00] oh ok [10:00] what you using? [10:00] yeah, xchat has tabs if you've enabled the reevant option [10:01] xchat-GNOME [10:01] ye, it has tabs [10:01] I think at the top by default [10:01] Thanks :) [10:01] #blender is the main channel with 227 people in it [10:01] last time I used xchat the tabs were at the side, but it may have changed since then [10:01] yeah at the side [10:02] dwatkins: what you using? [10:02] join #blender [10:02] dogmatic69: irssi/screen [10:03] paul2978: with a / :) [10:28] I have a 1st gen eepc to stick a linux on, anyone got any reccomendations? [10:28] it's for someone who doesn't know linux, but I reckon they'll be okay in openbox or somesuch and wont be looking to install things, just browse the net really [10:29] BigRedS: I've always wondered if crunchbang might work well on an eeepc [10:29] bigcalm: ooh, that'd be worth a look [10:30] a prettier openbox than I'd be arsed to do, too :) [10:30] Someday I'll get around to trying it on my eeepc 1000 [10:33] I really like crunchbang, I ran it on my ex father in laws old pc [10:33] He was stupid to be plain and fair and he used it [10:33] So can't be that bad [10:33] :) [10:33] haha [10:33] and it's debian based so I'll understand it, too [10:42] Heh, it's just booted into UNR 10.10 [10:42] forgot I did that [10:49] i liked UNR [10:50] netbook-launcher was great [10:53] it's a bit laggy on this... [10:57] BigRedS: have you tried Lubuntu? [10:58] yeah, the LXDE ubuntu [10:58] forgot about that, probably rouglu equivalent to crunchbang === rastamouse is now known as nothingspecial [11:15] GM [11:15] My apologies for top-posting on the mailing list. In my defence, the only other reply in the thread also top-posted. So I was following the trend [11:15] livingdaylight: GA [11:16] bigcalm, hia [11:16] bigcalm: no need to worry about it now. ninjas have aleady been dispatched ;) [11:16] Update: re: yesterdays pc issue on newly-built pc: I changed wireless keyboard and mouse and everythings seems fine now! [11:18] bigcalm: just claim you were winding cz up and it's all good :) [11:18] Only reason I bought parts to build a new pc was because I thought my pc was DEDED. When I began to experience similar issues on brand new pc I began to wonder. All I needed all along was a new keyboard, instead I have a new £300 computer - LOL [11:18] haha, I did that once when the problem was the power lead [11:20] so, funny... [11:20] never thought that the keyboard could cause the pc to get sluggish and freeze [11:21] I just changed batteries every once in a while [11:21] Now you mention it, I have heard of that before [11:21] with a PS/2 one [11:21] oh! I guess this is USB [11:21] ok, yes, this was a usb one. [11:21] £300 lesson learnt [11:31] So whats the "in" way of building websites these days? DJango & jQuery? [11:32] notepad.exe [11:33] edlin [11:34] but i think node.js is the new fad [11:37] is open java - icetea the new way ? seems the sun-java option is no longer [11:38] node.js? What does that do [11:40] appears that there are oracle-java installation guides online. What is the consensus of oracle-java vs icetea? [11:41] avoid both? [11:41] daubers: node.js is server side javascript and it is kinda good for real time comet stuff [11:41] etherpad-lite uses it [11:43] ah, ok [11:44] So does that require a http server too (reading the website it doesn't look it)? [11:44] no, it does the socket handling stuff [11:44] no, which is why i stay the hell away from it ;) [11:44] I'd be very scared at the idea of havng nothing inbetween node.js and the internet [11:44] Hmmm.... I'll add it to the list of stuff I should look into [11:44] BigRedS: YOU ARE THE INTERWEBS! [11:45] if you want raw access to do something interesting it is good [11:46] and it is more like twisted than multithreaded hardness [11:47] but if you just want to build a website then use Joomla/wordpress/mediawiki/drupal/something where someone else does the dull parts [11:47] I got angry at WP and drupal recently. Was going to bung something together with Django and jQuery, but wondered what had changed in the last couple of years in the ever changing fad like world of web based frameworks [11:48] daubers: django has a couple of things going for it, it's python and web so you get to improve both :) [11:49] davmor2: That and I already know it! [11:52] django is OK, but you have to do a lot yourself really [11:52] I really want to start learning python [11:53] django doesn't abstract the database very well, you have to do all kinds of mucking about with something called south if you want to add a field to an object because it doesn't sort out the tables for you [11:54] bigcalm: I can recommend a course :D [11:54] davmor2: great :) [11:57] AlanBell: huh? I've never hit that problem [11:58] AlanBell: Is this if you change a model definition it sometimes doesn't update the DB structure correctly? [11:58] maybe it is more of a problem on some of the Ubuntu things like the loco directory and summit [11:59] yeah, add or change a field to a model and you are into a world of schema migrations and pain [12:00] Ah! I've never really had that problem. Most things I build remain relativley static schema wise once developed. And by tracking version numbers I generally just write a schema_update.py that checks the versions and does the updates for me [12:02] I understand it isn't a big deal, I just spent about 15 years working on schemaless nosql databases and it was a bit of a shock to the system [12:08] Hm. It's a bit late to report bugs in Maverick's UNR isn't it? [12:12] o>O [12:12] LUNCH! [12:16] no, o Greedy [12:17] haha [12:18] Eating something bigger than your head [12:27] well gimp 2.8 is annoying :( [12:27] makes it really awkward to edit and save a .png file [12:30] AlanBell, the way "save" only supports xcf files, and you gotta use export? [12:30] dunno whose idea that was [12:34] directhex: yeah there is an overwrite option or export back to the file it came from option (depending on how you open it that moves) [12:34] AlanBell, still a horrible UI regression [12:34] but what you want to do is double click a .png, change it, save&quit [12:35] without being asked to care about file formats [12:35] i guess the aim is to force-feed people xcf files, to promote gimp as its own thing, not just "the thing that edits everyone else's formats" [12:35] maybe, .xcf is a good layered format, it is kind of the source code to the .png object code [12:36] but you can't use .xcf in an tag (I assume) [12:42] of course not. xcf is just GIMP's editing format [12:42] it's useless for presentation, the same way you wouldn't ship a .psd for presentation either [12:54] ah yeah, that irked me the other day [12:57] * czajkowski face palms at liam proven description of nixie pixel [12:57] * christel tickles czajkowski [12:58] what are your saturday plans? will you head straight to RAT or should we all meet for Pints first? [12:58] christel: unsure as of now as still unwell. [12:58] may have picked up bug in the house [12:58] oh no :( [13:02] czajkowski: "PROD!!!!"*4 [13:04] * czajkowski peers at davmor2 [13:04] czajkowski: what that's one prod for 4 days :P [13:05] czajkowski: Hello, have a hug [13:39] I need to update imagemagic on 10.10 to the same version as 12.04. Can I just use the 12.04 ppa? [13:39] maybe, maybe not [13:39] :/ [13:39] it would be better to rebuild that version on 10.10 [13:40] broken -> ImageMagick 6.5.7-8 working -> Version: ImageMagick 6.6.0-4 [13:40] Laney: like download the src? [13:41] backportpackage -s precise -d maverick -u ppa:dogmatic69/ppa imagemagick [13:41] or something [13:42] just found a 10.10 build of 6.6 .deb [13:43] and its 32bit [13:43] 10.10 is close to end of support [13:45] * czajkowski headdesks [13:46] ye, I was thinking to just update to 12 [13:48] * AlanBell wonders why czajkowski is abusing the desk [13:49] AlanBell: the list [13:52] ah [13:54] first time doing a major update :S [14:05] running the update now, been asked 4 times to change the mysql pw [14:06] AlanBell: If I were czajkowski I'd of bought a new desk I did like rather than just trying to demolish the one I had [14:13] * bigcalm returns [14:17] bigcalm: you were gone? [14:17] davmor2: I know it's hard to tell with me [14:21] bigcalm: :D [14:29] czajkowski: I've often wondered what would happen if methods of thinking in the media "world" collided with the OSS "world". I think Liam had a point... it just wasn't very well made. I'm not sure how you could raise that point without appearing sexist though. The worlds are a mighty complicated place === pangolin is now known as IdleOne [14:30] (That doesn't demean the work she had done bringing people to Ubuntu at all, which has been an immense addition to the general corpus of work in that area) [14:30] daubers: indeed, she has done good work, you can see that by the amount of people tuning in [14:31] but really lowering the comments to her body features to me, is just wrong and I'll call him on it [14:33] czajkowski: Absolutley. It's just a complex area to talk about in the OSS world. If this was a "media" world those comments would be hidden away in terms such as "target audience" and "appealing to a demographic". I think he just hadn't necessarily the correct method of approaching the subject. So call him on it, but maybe a little help with language would be good? [14:33] what are you reading? [14:34] christel: ubuntu-uk ml [14:34] I did I pointed out you can complement her on her geekyness or smartness [14:34] christel: Gaming on Ubuntu thread [14:35] i shall go Read [14:35] Need me some Doctrine help. How would I make this work? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1088052/ [14:37] Anyone know if there's a Perlbrew equivalent in Ruby? For creating largely self-contained install, with it's own binary and assorted gems? === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [14:38] ah! RVM apparently! [14:39] czajkowski: When you're talking about video and media as a whole then sometimes then appearance can be important to certain demographics. I'm not saying that's "right", just that it is a thing that exists. (and I've being reading too many books/magazines/articles on production workflows/decisions in TV and film) [14:40] It's also (adding complications) a very emotive subject that a lot of people try and avoid. [14:40] I also hasten to add that the terminology I've used above I've tried to stay gender neutral with, because it works both ways. [14:40] BigRedS: from another channel on another server: rvm or rbenv [14:41] bigcalm: aha, I'll have a look at rbenv too, ta! [14:44] davmor2: Just reaad your mail, how much was the course if you don;t mind me asking [14:44] diplo: with vat £780 [14:46] I'd love to put myself on a course, I knew it would be in that range but I just can;t afford to put myself through [14:46] * diplo slugs on [14:46] Cheers anyhoo [14:49] diplo: no worries dude [14:50] I guess I was hoping you were going to say £200 :D [14:50] I know the windows/aix courses I've been on in the past have been 1-2k [14:51] having perused her website i can sort of see where liam comes from :) [14:52] heh, I've followed Nixie for years, she definitly does hang out a bit in shots but I find her knowledgable enough and enjoy her shows [14:53] She's certainly not the worst out there, I watch some ones about gaming/nerdy stuff hosted by a few girls and I can assure you they are sometimes less clothed and it's not the reason I watch it. [14:53] I just enjoy the show [14:53] Although attractive ladies do help :D [14:54] haha [14:54] i don't have a problem with it, lets face it, sex sells -- but i can understand that some people don't approve [14:55] She works for Revision3 I guess now [14:55] yeah, people are complicated. It's certainly become a very emotive topic in the OSS sphere [14:55] But worked for Logitech for a while ( won a competition i think actually ) [14:55] and from perusing his livejournal bio i can sort of see how her exceptionally liberal approach to life clashes a tad with his rather traditional view of himself :) [14:56] * diplo takes everyone as they come [14:56] Except my ex-wife, I try to ignore her as much as possible :D [14:58] also, i wouldn't say she's particularly busty! :o [14:58] haha [14:58] see, i just dislike people equally ;) [14:58] I like people individually, I have a hard time dealing with groups of people [14:59] I think a lot of people in the IT/Tech field do daubers ( generilisation i know ) [14:59] christel: Sex sells, hmmm selling sex I wonder if we can have them all arrested for prostitution? [14:59] But I'm the same, and most techy/IT people I know are similar [14:59] It's why I was in two minds about Alans and left myself as a maybe [15:00] Heh, I can't commit to anything at the moment because the roof on the conservatory has a whole in it and if it's a sunny day I need to take the whole thing down and put it up properly [15:01] * bigcalm hugs christel [15:01] now -- thingiewotsit -- liam said " [15:01] now -- thingiewotsit -- liam said "[b] I have no actual evidence that she is geeky; I think it may just [15:01] be a calculated move to appear so in order to win fans; I see no sign [15:01] of real understanding of what she's discussing in what I've seen." [15:01] to me that sounds like a Good Thing(tm) -- if we've reached a point where ubuntu is being used and advocated by "non-geeky" people.. then that is a major achievement for FOSS in general [15:01] czajkowski: you see the things you start [15:02] listen into mrevell http://www.brighttalk.com/webcast/6793/49175 on maas [15:02] yay! [15:02] christel: Indeed! But it also has the "Linux Format Conundrum" in it. In that people who are very technical lost interest fast :) And that might be Liams point [15:02] daubers: but we don't really need them to be interested, they most likely are interested already and have moved well beyond the point at which she advocates the use of the distro [15:03] daubers: I'm not the only one that is thinking about unsubscribing then ? [15:03] diplo: I did when i moved [15:03] christel: I agree. I'd have thought Liam is outside of her target audience [15:03] I keep thinking it's only £13 a quarter and what else would I read on the bog :) [15:04] diplo: Heh, I looked at it as I could get a more interesting (to me) magazine for that money [15:04] Share away if you have suggestions [15:05] diplo: I was considering magazines outside the Linux sphere... so might not be interesting to others! (Among them Gardeners World and White Dwarf) [15:05] not heard of white dward [15:05] dwarf* [15:06] [Jonathan Riddell] Akademy BoFs - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4588 [15:06] Debated about subscribing to some comics and see how I get on with them, used to love them as a kid and teaching my boys to read at the mo [15:07] Wonder if it would help them to enjoy it more. [15:07] diplo: White Dwarf is Games Workshop's (Warhammer) magazine [15:08] ah [15:08] Two extremes there :) [15:10] heh :) I did consider "Make" magazine but I picked up a copy from WHSmiths and wasn't really taken [15:18] I like magazines as I can pick them up and put them down [15:38] Don't you hate it when you can't remember the name of the hotel you're booked into for the weekend? [15:38] Makes finding the booking confirmation email a little tricky [15:38] Farnham folk: which hotel have I booked into? :D [15:45] is it the one with the love swings? [15:45] :D [15:45] http://www.hoteldevie.com/leisure/faqs.html#swingers-hotel-myth [15:45] hotel de vie [15:46] hello sebsebseb [15:46] * bigcalm tuts [15:46] Yes, it's that hotel [15:46] I am working on a flyer thing now for developers, so when i get a reply on the list I can add more useful info so people can get started [15:46] No, the swings was not a deciding factor :P [15:46] you will have to tell us all about it [15:46] well, not *all* about it [15:46] * bigcalm tuts [15:46] zleap, do developers tend to need flyers? [15:47] Speaking of swings.... I've got a big set of swings in the garden that I need to get rid of. Anyone who wants them just needs to pring their own shovel [15:47] s/pring/bring [15:47] hi popey and AlanBell [15:47] http://maps.skobbler.de/ nice UI on openstreetmap data! [15:47] not sure, but we are trying to reach out to people [15:48] what's OGGCamp like, was thinking about maybe going this year. [15:48] may inspire people who want to get in to programming and give them a starting point [15:48] sebsebseb, awesome [15:48] sebsebseb: better than popey said [15:49] Found my booking confirmation, thank you :D [15:49] How general is it, I mean LInux distrowise? [15:50] well went to FOSDEM 2012 this year :) [15:50] ,but not been to any UK LInux opensource/freesoftware type events yet [15:51] oh and started going to my LUG this year :) [15:51] its not linux specific [15:51] and certainly not ubuntu specific [15:52] sebsebseb, whereabouts in the UK are you based? are you near liverpool? [15:52] ,but since I have moved more away from Ubuntu, to contribute to another distro doing community stuff, I was wondering how general OGGCamp was. also yeah I Have read that, it's not just Linux, it's a mixture of stuff [15:53] popey: no not quite, near Bristol [15:53] ahh [15:53] however it seems two people from my LUG are going for example [15:53] I'm going :) [15:53] yeah of course you are, but your organising it as well, so no wonder [15:53] :d [15:53] :D [15:54] What date is it popey ? [15:54] I'd like to visit a friend in Macclesfield, might combine the weekend [15:55] popey: I assume like other events, can give out Live CD's for distros and such to people :d if want to [15:55] no worries, just looked online [15:55] :P [15:55] sebsebseb: Some people from the Thames Valley Rep Rap User Group are going too [15:55] * sebsebseb might volunteer for a talk at OGGCam pI am not joking, did some public speaking earlier this year, only short Lightning Talks though [15:56] that was fun :) [15:58] it's the weekend, after getting back from nearly two weeks in Sweden earlier in the week. oh and probably whilst there won't have any or little Internet access as well. So could be nice to go to a opensource type event on the weekend when back :d. [16:01] daubers: Auguat 18th and 19th [16:02] irk... that's only a month away.... should really start sorting out some video gear [16:03] (still waiting to know if it's really wanted or not mind.....) [16:03] yeah and I should get travel and hotel sorted out, if going :d [16:03] daubers: uh if I was doing a talk there, I would want it videod :d [16:03] that's something else actually, when I looked on Youtube for OGGcamp not that many videos came up [16:03] sebsebseb: I've offered the gear (except a couple of cameras I need...) but haven't had a confirmed yes/no yet! [16:05] daubers: so you have been to OGGCamp before it seems, what can you tell me about it :d [16:07] sebsebseb: It's awesome fun. There's normally a talk for everyone (if not you should give a talk) and normally some interesting exhibits. The RepRap there last year was quite cool [16:07] daubers: and you come back with loads of freebies and such like other events? [16:07] :d [16:07] sebsebseb: Umm...... I've normally been helping out but I think that depends on the sponsors this year [16:08] sebsebseb: You come away knowing more awesome people than when you started :) [16:08] yeah I guess so [16:09] That's why I started going anyway [16:09] and I was looking at photos from a previous one [16:09] Also why I offered to help. Since I'd not met many OSS people at the time, it was an easy way to meet new peoples [16:09] it's outside? or when the weather is right? [16:09] sebsebseb: Mostly inside [16:09] except for talks I mean [16:10] sebsebseb: http://blip.tv/show/772977 <- videos [16:12] daubers: yeah that looks better than what came up on Youtube when searching for OGGCamp [16:13] sebsebseb: Those where made thanks to AlanBell providing some stuff and my offices bandwidth being eaten :) [16:13] Apparently bandwidth isn't an issue this yea [16:13] r [16:13] daubers: anyway so I can go there and try and gain some interest in the distro I contribute to now for example I guess :d 100% community distro, non profit [16:13] newish still [16:14] sebsebseb: Absolutley. See if people are interested in going to your talk, or just take some LiveCD's and get them on a table somewhere :) [16:14] sebsebseb: Which distro? [16:14] heh thought I would get asked that [16:15] Mageia [16:15] the mandriva replacement? [16:15] bigcalm: when do you guys arrive? :) [16:15] daubers: the Mandriva fork yeah [16:15] christel: lunchish, I hope [16:15] I cut my teeth on mandriva many many moons ago [16:15] founded by ex Mandriva employee's and volunteer contributors [16:16] cool! [16:16] we should Pub Pre-RAT i reckon [16:16] then all go to alton together from farnham [16:16] * christel nods [16:16] sebsebseb: Plan a talk! See if you can get it voted up to be done :) [16:16] daubers: yeah might do that for this distro :) [16:16] christel: it's 3+ hours without stopping. So I hope we set off early and have a relaxing drive :) [16:16] *nod* [16:17] christel: I was hoping that we could all go on the train together [16:17] yay [16:17] Choo choo [16:17] choo choo [16:17] :D [16:17] AlanBell: will Lord join us on saturday? [16:17]