[14:58]  * skaet waves
[14:59] <mdeslaur> \o
[14:59] <roadmr> hello
[14:59]  * ogra_ moos
[14:59] <skaet> :)
[14:59] <brendand> o/
[14:59] <brendand> hi
[15:00]  * stgraber waves
[15:00] <skaet> hiya,  time to start it seem.   :)
[15:00] <skaet> #startmeeting
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jul 13 15:00:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:00] <skaet> Agenda (and minute location):
[15:00] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-07-13
[15:00] <skaet> .
[15:00] <skaet> Upcoming dates:
[15:00] <skaet> 12.10
[15:00] <skaet>     2012/07/16-19: practice freeze queue test?
[15:00] <skaet>     2012/07/23: Quantal Alpha 3 image candidates start
[15:00] <skaet>     2012/07/26: Quantal Alpha 3
[15:01] <skaet>     2012/08/23: Quantal Feature Freeze
[15:01] <skaet> 12.04.1
[15:01] <skaet>     2012/08/02: DesktopInfrastructureFreeze
[15:01] <skaet>     2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing
[15:01] <skaet>     2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
[15:01] <skaet>     2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Work Items:
[15:01] <skaet> 2012/06/29 -  3041 (was 2763 last week):  rather dramatic uptick in workitems for this pont in the cycle, being investigated.  As a result though the overall burn down trendline is looking a bit concerning again.   Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Bugs:
[15:01] <skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[15:01] <skaet> 12.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?assignee_option=none&field.milestone%3Alist=49926
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Pending action items:
[15:01] <skaet> * [brendand] provide prioritized list of HW CERT targets for 12.04.1,
[15:01] <skaet> top 5, and prioritized order after that. (brendand, 20120629 15:12:00)
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Weekly Status Received:
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001529.html - HW Cert - brendand
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001527.html - QA - gema
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001544.html - QA community - balloons
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001528.html - Security - mdeslaur
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001532.html - Kernel - ogasawara
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001541.html - Foundations - ogra
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001542.html - Server - arosales
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001531.html - Desktop - seb128
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001539.html - Unity - popey
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001534.html - Edubuntu - stgraber
[15:02] <seb128> hey
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001538.html - Kubuntu - Riddell
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-July/001536.html - Lubuntu - gilir
[15:02] <popey> o/
[15:02] <stgraber> the 12.04.1 link above is for bugs that are targeted to 12.04.1 but aren't assigned to anyone. Please have a look and assign any relevant bug to your team members. (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?assignee_option=none&field.milestone%3Alist=49926)
[15:02] <stgraber> full list is available at: 15:01 < skaet> 12.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?assignee_option=none&field.milestone%3Alist=49926
[15:02] <stgraber> gah...
[15:03] <skaet> hiya seb128 , popey,  welcome.   just finished pasting the preamble stuff.
[15:03] <skaet> ..
[15:03] <stgraber> full list is available at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
[15:03] <stgraber> there we go :)
[15:03] <stgraber> ..
[15:03] <skaet> #topic Questions and Comments
[15:03] <brendand> top 5 list is:
[15:03] <brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/994685
[15:03] <brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1016195
[15:03] <brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/990575
[15:04] <skaet> Thanks brendand!  :)
[15:04] <brendand> that's a top 3 :)
[15:04]  * skaet marks that action item done
[15:04] <skaet> and glad to have it less than 5.  :)
[15:04] <ogasawara> I'll have my team follow up.
[15:04] <ogasawara> ..
[15:04] <skaet> ..
[15:05] <brendand> skaet - i had a little comment on : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1021293
[15:05] <skaet> go ahead
[15:05] <brendand> skaet - the issue is that the bug only manifests with the release image, so we can't use it at the moment
[15:06] <brendand> skaet, so fixing it in 12.04.1 is essentially moot
[15:06] <cjwatson> well.  except that given that it's apparently related to which packages get related, if we don't fix it in .1, it could recur at any time.
[15:06] <cjwatson> sorry I haven't had time to look into it yet but I've had to focus on bug 1023036
[15:07] <brendand> cjwatson, sure. for now we need to continue with the 12.04.1 daily though
[15:07] <brendand> cjwatson, i totally understand that other more critical bugs have come up this week
[15:07] <cjwatson> that's reasonable, I just don't think we can drop its priority on that basis
[15:08] <brendand> cjwatson, at the moment i believe the 12.04.1 daily is broken as well
[15:08] <gema> brendand: server is, yes
[15:08] <brendand> gema, you don't have reason to believe desktop is? i saw the build was failed
[15:09] <gema> brendand: I was going to type and desktop and alternate
[15:09] <cjwatson> build or test?
[15:09] <gema> cjwatson: test
[15:09] <gema> well, there is no build today of desktop :?
[15:09] <brendand> cjwatson, i meant jenkins 'build'. sorry
[15:09] <brendand> old habit
[15:09]  * doko waves from debconf
[15:10] <gema> brendand, cjwatson the tests are failing but we haven't had the time to get to them with all the other failures
[15:11] <gema> I will try to get to that before leaving today
[15:11] <brendand> gema - i think we are having a stab at it right now, so maybe we'll let you know soon!
[15:11] <gema> brendand: thanks
[15:12] <arosales> o/
[15:12] <skaet> brendand ..?
[15:12] <gema> ..
[15:12] <brendand> skaet, i'm done
[15:12] <brendand> ..
[15:12] <skaet> thanks,  go arosales
[15:12] <arosales> 2 comments
[15:13] <arosales> ogra: looks like the arm build server are lagging due to panda board availability
[15:13] <arosales> if so I can see if we have a few extras to help with the build progress
[15:13] <ogra_> arosales, yes, they do
[15:14] <arosales> orga_ I'll contact you offline to see if we can help with hardware issue
[15:14] <ogra_> arosales, well, i think elmo'S team has a mandabox somewhere already, if thats actually the case i would rather like to see the time invested in bringing that one up than to add extra free flaying pandas in the DC
[15:14] <arosales> gema: I think james page should have updated the server test cases for tomcat
[15:15] <ogra_> arosales, i know kate asked in direction IS, lets wait for that feedback first
[15:15] <skaet> ogra_, arosales,  pgraner's been in touch with IS,  will let you both know when I hear something back.
[15:15] <ogra_> great
[15:15] <arosales> orga_ : ok, feel free to ping me if the hardware continues to be an issue and I can try to help hunt down some additional ones
[15:15] <gema> arosales: thanks
[15:15] <arosales> ..
[15:15] <ogra_> o/
[15:15] <pgraner> ogra_, elmo is looking into it
[15:16] <skaet> thanks arosales,  go ogra_
[15:16] <ogra_> pgraner, yay, thanks :)
[15:16] <pgraner> ogra_, additionally I've got imx6's with sata that rtg & infinity have to see if we could use them
[15:16]  * ogra_ hands a bouquet to ogasawara ....
[15:16] <arosales> pgraner: skaet: thanks
[15:17] <ogra_> ogasawara, as mentioned in the foundations report, we'd like to see some kernel team focus on bug 1023174 ... just wanted to mention it here additionally
[15:17] <ogra_> ..
[15:17] <ogasawara> ogra_: ack, have already sent email out to have it investigated by my team.
[15:17] <ScottK> o/
[15:17] <skaet> thanks ogra_,   ScottK go
[15:18] <ScottK> Sorry about breaking everything python3 yesterday.  It should all be good now thought.
[15:18] <ScottK> ..
[15:18] <ScottK> thought/though
[15:18] <skaet> thanks ScottK
[15:18] <skaet> I've got a couple of comments,  if no other hands.  ;)
[15:19] <skaet> on the subject of bugs,   to continue on from stgrabers comments,  we're starting to run out of time for 12.04.1.
[15:19] <skaet> so its important that bugs found, get to the developers as soon as possible.
[15:19] <skaet> In working through the bugs over last few days,  I’ve been see several cases where the bug is not release targetted and prioritized correctly,  so the development teams are not seeing it in a timely manner,  which is a particular concern as we’re dealing with the 12.04.1 and quantal development bugs right now.
[15:19] <skaet> .
[15:19] <skaet> As a reminder, we are using the tag "rls-q-incoming" to signal a bug needs to be looked at by the development teams for inclusion in the release.  If the development team is going to fix it,  it will be targetted to the series, and possibly a specific milestone.
[15:20] <skaet> These nominated incoming bugs can be found: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html.   Goal here is to keep this report as empty as possible.
[15:20] <skaet> The bugs that the development teams are committed to fixing can be found here:
[15:20] <skaet> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[15:20] <skaet> (no incoming tag, and targetted to quantal gets a bug on this list)
[15:20] <skaet> For those bugs targetted to quantal that there isn't a plan in place to fix, the tag 'rls-q-notfixing' will be on the bug,  and they'll show up in:
[15:20] <skaet> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-notfixing-bug-tasks.html
[15:20] <skaet> .
[15:20] <skaet> For those bugs that its important to fix for 12.04.1,  please make sure the bug is targetted/nominated to the precise series, and milestoned to 12.04.1 - that will get it on the development team that’s focusing on 12.04.1’s radar.
[15:20] <skaet> If you have any questions,  feel free to ping me.
[15:20] <skaet> ..
[15:20] <skaet> Any one have reservations about cjwatson’s requested test days for the launchpad queue upload processing code next week?  (7/16 2100 -> 7/19 2100)   If no one comments before the end of the meeting,  that will be the plan.
[15:20] <skaet> .
[15:21] <Daviey> sounds reasonable to me.
[15:21] <skaet> coolio
[15:21] <seb128> works for desktop
[15:21] <stgraber> +1
[15:22] <skaet> ok,  I'll move on for now.
[15:22] <skaet> ..
[15:22] <cjwatson> Great, thanks - I'll try to make things as non-disruptive as possible.  Archive admins, once again, please make sure to tell me about any problems you see
[15:22] <cjwatson> ..
[15:23] <skaet> popey,  when is the next drop targetted for 12.04.1?
[15:23] <skaet> (or seb128,  if you know)
[15:24] <seb128> skaet, next week
[15:24] <popey> sorry, yup
[15:24] <seb128> the SRU got started to be prepared this week
[15:24] <seb128> we are trying to remind popey and friends that we need that SRU regularly, they promised it will come soon ;-)
[15:24] <seb128> popey, right? ;-)
[15:24] <popey> correct
[15:25] <skaet> popey,  is there a plan visible somewhere for the drops anticipated for quantal and 12.04.1?
[15:25] <popey> hmm, no. Will fix that.
[15:25] <skaet> thanks popey.  :)
[15:25] <skaet> ..
[15:26] <skaet> seb128,  fair number of bugs are showing up in the desktop section for quantal, http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[15:26] <skaet> which ones are the desktop team going to be focusing on fixing?
[15:26]  * skaet doesn't expect an answer now... ;)
[15:27] <seb128> skaet, we expect to fix all of those ;-)
[15:27] <seb128> skaet, the list is not that long if you consider that desktop team is ~15 people
[15:28] <seb128> ..
[15:28] <skaet> heh, ok.   :)  lets see how it looks next week.
[15:28] <skaet> ..
[15:28] <skaet> balloons,  what is the status of the accessibility testing requested?
[15:28] <skaet> do you need help reaching out to that community?
[15:28] <stgraber> 1~
[15:29] <stgraber> oops :)
[15:29] <seb128> our list is not longer that foundation's or kernel's ones on that page though
[15:29] <seb128> ..
[15:29] <balloons> skaet, I spoke with seb128 and I simply put out a heads up on it..
[15:29] <skaet> balloons,  any feedback?
[15:30] <balloons> there wasn't anything in particular to test beyond being on the lookout for weirdness from what I understand
[15:30] <skaet> did anyone do some accessibility specific tests on them?
[15:30] <balloons> feedback is it appears like nothing major broke yet  :-p I didn't hear anything negative.
[15:31] <balloons> That said, I don't know how the accessibility tests are/where affected
[15:31]  * skaet was hoping that some of the broken things got better actually....
[15:31] <balloons> since I'm talking, I'm still in process of getting info on what's happening with unity testing this cycle
[15:31] <balloons> but regression testing will happen alongside that I suspect
[15:31] <balloons> ..
[15:32] <skaet> seb128,  could you ask TheMuso to put together a list of tests worth focusing on for accessibility, so we can get that a bit more directed?
[15:32] <seb128> can do
[15:32] <seb128> ACTION: to ask TheMuso to put together a list of tests worth focusing on for accessibility
[15:32] <skaet> Thanks  seb128.  :)
[15:32] <seb128> or how that work?
[15:32] <seb128> I got the syntax wrong?
[15:33] <skaet> #action:  seb128 to ask TheMuso to put together a list of tests worth focusing on for accessibility
[15:33] <meetingology> ACTION: :  seb128 to ask TheMuso to put together a list of tests worth focusing on for accessibility
[15:33] <seb128> skaet, thanks
[15:33] <seb128> ..
[15:34] <skaet> popey,  do you have any guidance for balloons?  ^
[15:34]  * popey looks
[15:35] <popey> i see no questions :S
[15:35] <popey> oh, i see
[15:35] <skaet> maybe I misinterpreted,  but thought that balloons was looking for info on what needs to be tested for unity this cycle.
[15:36] <balloons> skaet, yes, popey and I have been playing tag
[15:36] <balloons> but we'll work it out
[15:37] <popey> I'll catch up with balloons after this meeting about it
[15:37] <popey> balloons, lets have a hangout in a bit
[15:37] <popey> ..
[15:37] <skaet> popey,  coolio,   summary might be useful to others as well, so if you could publish it somewhere that would be good.  :)
[15:37] <popey> once I know, you'll know :)
[15:37] <skaet> :)
[15:38] <balloons> skaet, yea we can post a summary to release lit
[15:38] <balloons> *list
[15:38] <skaet> perfect.  :)   Thanks!
[15:38] <skaet> ..
[15:38]  * skaet looks for hands?
[15:38] <balloons> o/
[15:38] <skaet> go ahead balloons
[15:39] <skaet> or were you just showing me a hand.  ;)
[15:39] <balloons> I also wanted to mention, I know now is the time for feature and new application stuff to land. So please let me know if you want/need any testing around what's landing. We have a nice setup with the package tracker now and the community is ready to go :-)
[15:39] <balloons> skaet, lol..
[15:40] <balloons> ..
[15:40] <skaet> thanks balloons.   :)
[15:40] <gema> o/
[15:40] <skaet> go gema
[15:41] <gema> we seem to be having lots of problems with automated tests. Some of them are due to the code, some others due to environment, I'd like everyone to be aware that this is the case
[15:41] <gema> and put special care on not breaking things if posible
[15:41] <gema> at least until we are out of the woods
[15:41] <gema> ..
[15:41] <skaet> thanks gema.
[15:42] <skaet> +1 from me on that sentiment.   Be nice for things to get solid again.
[15:42] <skaet> ..
[15:43] <skaet> ok,  I think that's it for the questions and comments for this meeting.
[15:44] <ScottK> 0/
[15:44] <skaet> heh
[15:44] <skaet> just caught me on the endmeeting.... go ScottK
[15:44] <ScottK> In yesterday's meeting I forgot to mention we've got a Qt SRU that'll get uploaded today or tomorrow.
[15:44] <ScottK> ..
[15:44] <stgraber> ScottK: good to know, thanks
[15:44] <stgraber> ..
[15:44] <skaet> thanks ScottK.
[15:44] <skaet> ..
[15:45] <cjwatson> gema: I think I have a fix for the most notorious of the desktop failures, FWIW.  At least once I debug the bugs in the bug-fix :-)
[15:45] <gema> cjwatson: many thanks :DDDD
[15:45] <seb128> cjwatson, \o/
[15:45] <skaet> Thanks ogra_, roadmr, brendand, arosales, seb128, popey, cjwatson, stgraber, ScottK, balloons, Daviey, gema, pgraner
[15:45] <skaet> #endmeeting
[15:45] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jul 13 15:45:57 2012 UTC.
[15:45] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-13-15.00.moin.txt
[15:45] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-13-15.00.html
[15:45] <seb128> skaet, thanks
[15:46] <arosales> thanks for chairing skaet
[15:46] <roadmr> thanks!
[15:46] <ogra_> thanks skaet !
[15:46] <gema> thanks skaet !
[15:46]  * balloons does a handstand of gratitude
[15:46] <skaet> nice note to end the meeting on fact wise cjwatson.  :)
[15:46] <stgraber> thanks!
[15:46] <gema> skaet: that bug has been a pain all week, I am starting the weekend happy thanks to cjwatson :D
[15:47] <cjwatson> Also, if it's what I think it is, I was right that reverting wouldn't have helped; it looks to have been a hard-to-spot race in our fix for bug 1020574, which was equally severe.
[15:51] <seb128> cjwatson, yeah, reverting has a limit, the point where the "let's revert" should have happened there is to revert the python-apt upload which created the issue, though it was not really practical
[15:51] <cjwatson> Except it was actually apt.
[15:51] <seb128> cjwatson, I think in practice the current way out is the best one, though it's suboptimal it took a week
[15:51] <cjwatson> And that involved unwinding an ABI change.
[15:51] <seb128> cjwatson, but not a lot we can do
[15:51] <seb128> cjwatson, there is only so far we can get on being stable in unstable series imho
[15:52] <cjwatson> TBH my mistake was mostly just not trying hard enough to reproduce it.  It hadn't occurred to me that turning on debugging would have made it harder to reproduce.
[15:52] <cjwatson> And I suspect running it in parallel with some test sbuild runs helped too.
[15:53] <seb128> races are tricky like that ;-)
[15:53] <cjwatson> Also, until about an hour ago I had no idea whether it was related to the fix following last week's apt change.
[15:53] <cjwatson> Reverting is all well and good when the chain of cause and effect is clear.
[15:54] <cjwatson> But we have a complex stack and it often isn't.
[15:54] <seb128> right
[15:54] <seb128> I agree, in such cases the easier way out is just to try to figure what the damn bug is and fix it
[15:54] <cjwatson> exactly
[15:54] <ogra_> instead of spending a days work to revert ...
[15:54] <cjwatson> By the time you've identified cause, you near as damnit have a fix
[15:55] <cjwatson> (For example, at earlier stages in the investigation I had good reason to suspect a recent udev upload, which turned out to be entirely innocent.)