/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/07/14/#ubuntu-manual.txt

hannieHi everyone19:01
hannieHere is the agenda: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-Q-1stmeeting19:01
godbykHey, hannie.19:02
hannieWhile we wait for everyone to be here, perhaps we can read the comments that godbyk added to the agenda?19:03
hanniegodbyk, shall we wait for Chris, andrew and Tony?19:06
godbykhannie: I figure we can give them a couple minutes and then get started.19:06
hannieok19:06
godbykI texted Andrew and he's afk. He said he may be back in about an hour. So we don't need to wait for him.19:09
hannieJim Connett said he could not attend, but he wants to continue working on the manual19:09
godbykOkay.19:09
hannieletÅ› start then19:09
godbykAgreed.19:09
godbyk#startmeeting19:10
meetingologyMeeting started Sat Jul 14 19:10:00 2012 UTC.  The chair is godbyk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.19:10
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godbykHello, everyone.19:10
godbykThe agenda for this meeting is available at <http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-Q-1stmeeting>.19:10
godbyk#link http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-Q-1stmeeting19:10
PaddyLandauHello.19:10
hanniepresent19:10
godbyk#topic Attendance19:10
godbykWe'll have everyone say 'hi' to collect attendance real quick.19:10
hanniehi19:10
PaddyLandauhi19:10
hannienot a crowd, but no problem :)19:11
godbykMakes for a short roll call. :)19:11
godbykAndrew just texted me and said he should be here in 5-10 minutes.19:11
godbyk#topic Review Precise cycle19:11
godbykShortly after we released Getting Started with Ubuntu 12.04, I posted a message to the Ubuntu Manual mailing list to collect people's thoughts on what worked well and what didn't during that release cycle.19:12
godbykI've collected those responses and dumped them into the agenda notes: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-Q-1stmeeting19:12
hanniegodbyk, I added a few lines on this at the bottom of the comments19:12
godbykhannie: Thanks.19:13
godbykWe haven't collected feedback from the public yet.19:13
hannieno, should we?19:13
godbykI think it's a good idea to do so, but I wanted them to be able to read the manual for a bit first.19:13
hanniePerhaps use the forums?19:13
PaddyLandauMay I ask how you collect the comments from the public?19:13
godbykNow that the manual has been out for a couple weeks, we can put together a survey.19:14
PaddyLandauFor future, would it be a good idea to have a survey ready and post the link inside the manual itself?19:14
godbykA simple way to do it is to use a Google Form and post the link to the forums, Ubuntu Planet blogs, mailing lists, etc.19:14
godbykIf we want a more complex survey, I can install some software on our website to do that.19:14
hanniegood idea!19:14
godbykPaddyLandau: Probably!19:15
PaddyLandauOK, something to keep in mind, then. That would give a much greater response, I think, provided we position the survey request at a couple of suitable points within the manual.19:15
godbykThat's certainly something we can do for 12.10.19:15
godbykAgreed.19:15
hannie+119:16
godbykLet me make a note real quick.19:16
godbykOkay.19:17
godbykI'll send an email to the list after the meeting to solicit questions and figure out what we'd like to hear from our readers and other community members.19:17
godbykThen we can put together a survey and post it to the forums, mailing lists, blogs, etc.19:17
PaddyLandauGood idea. But we should keep the survey very simple, because many people lose patience after 5 or 6 questions.19:18
godbykI can also set up a feedback@ubuntu-manual.org email address to collect reader feedback and we can print that in the manual as well.19:18
hannieYes, I agree on that too19:18
godbykPaddyLandau: +119:18
hannieSo questions must be to the point19:18
PaddyLandaugodbyk: Cool.19:18
godbykDoes anyone here have anything to add about how things went last cycle?19:18
godbykI'll be reviewing the responses over the next couple days and trying to address them as needed.19:19
hannieYes, about TeX live19:19
PaddyLandauNot from me. I think everything has already been covered.19:19
godbykhannie: Fire away!19:19
hannieWill this be in the repository as from 12.10?19:19
hannieI thought I had read that19:19
godbykhannie: TeX Live 2012 was just released a few days ago.19:19
PaddyLandauIt's already there. I've uninstalled the old one and installed the new one from the repository.19:19
ajmontaghello, sorry to be late19:19
hanniewelcome, ajmontag19:20
godbykhannie: I *think* that the Debian team has been reworking all of their texlive packages for the past year or thereabouts.19:20
PaddyLandauHi ajmontag.19:20
godbykhannie: And I *think* that the new texlive packages should appear in Ubuntu 12.10.19:20
godbykThere is already a PPA for them.19:20
godbykI've tested the PPA and those packages do work and successfully compile the manual.19:20
hannieok, we'll see.19:20
PaddyLandauHannie: It's already there. I've uninstalled the old one and installed the new one from the repository.19:20
hannieok, PaddyLandau did it work fine?19:20
godbykSo hopefully we'll be able to use the Ubuntu texlive packages in 12.10 to build the manual instead of requiring everyone to install TeX Live from upstream.19:20
PaddyLandauYes, as far as I know. I've never actually used TeX Live, but at least I know that the installation works.19:21
hanniethat's good news then19:21
hannieI'll give it a try tomorrow myself19:21
godbykajmontag: Did you have any thoughts on how things went during the last release cycle?19:21
godbykajmontag: What worked well and what could be improved?19:22
PaddyLandauHannie: Let us know how well it works.19:22
hanniegodbyk, the 3rd point I had for the comments will be discussed later (spreadsheet authors)19:22
hanniePaddyLandau, I will19:22
hanniehey CrustyBarnacle19:22
CrustyBarnacleHowdy all.. Hey Hannie19:22
ajmontagWith this being my first project like this, I dont have much to compare it to, but I think it went smoothly.19:22
godbykHey, CrustyBarnacle.19:22
godbykCrustyBarnacle: We were just discussing how things went during the previous cycle.19:23
CrustyBarnacleOur awesome LaTex-ers and Hannie did an excellent job herding us cats!19:23
godbykThe meeting agenda is here: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-Q-1stmeeting19:23
godbykI collected the responses we got from the mailing list.19:23
hanniecouldn 't do without you guys19:23
godbykCrustyBarnacle: Good to hear!19:23
godbykhannie is an excellent cat-herder!19:24
hanniewith a whip :)19:24
PaddyLandau+1 for Hannie's involvement.19:24
CrustyBarnacleOne thing that could improve, if we continue to use it. Google docs spreadsheet. Did we actually use it to track?19:24
* hannie starts blushing19:24
PaddyLandauHannie: LOL19:25
godbykCrustyBarnacle: c7p and hannie used the spreadsheet quite a bit to track things.19:25
godbykI generally just emailed them to find out where we were. :-)19:25
hannieI have made a new spreadsheet for Quantal, it will be discussed later19:25
CrustyBarnacleThe troubleshooting chapter assignments... I did not get responses ever from the assigned authors.19:25
* godbyk only *appears* to know what's going. It's really c7p and hannie who keep things on track!19:25
CrustyBarnacleThat chapter still needs to be revisited, yes?19:26
godbykCrustyBarnacle: I think the troubleshooting chapter is a perennial problem.19:26
hannielet me have a look at the old spreadsheet19:26
godbykIt seems that it's difficult to keep that one updated.19:26
hannieIt says: Tom to make an outline of the new chapter19:27
CrustyBarnacleOverall though... Communication was great this cycle. Lots of progress emails and quick changes/commits.19:27
hanniePerhaps we should ask Tom Swartz?19:27
godbykHey, ChrisWoollard!19:27
hanniehey ChrisWoollard19:27
CrustyBarnacleHowdy ChrisWoolard :-)19:28
ChrisWoollardHey Everybody19:28
hannieChrisWoollard, here is the agenda: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-Q-1stmeeting19:28
godbykWhy don't we move on to the Quantal discussion. I think the troubleshooting chapter will likely need to be addressed again during that cycle anyway.19:28
ChrisWoollardthanks19:28
godbykSlight detour first:19:29
CrustyBarnacle+1 Quantal discussion after detour :-)19:29
godbyk#topic Menubar / top bar / panel19:29
godbykIn an effort to be consistent, Hannie emailed the Ubuntu docs team and others to try to sort out what to call that thing at the top of the screen.19:29
CrustyBarnacleUI references vs user preference/understanding <-- Is that the main thing?19:30
ChrisWoollardsensible19:30
godbykCrustyBarnacle: Somewhat. And because everyone calls it something different, apparently.19:30
hannieIt was quite interesting to read the reactions, also on the forums (thanks PaddyLandau )19:30
hannieThe ubuntu docs use menu bar because that is how it is called in the gui19:31
CrustyBarnaclehannie: I was surprised by all the opinions on this one.19:31
PaddyLandauThe way I see, we are in a difficult situation. The jargon is "menu bar". But the manual is supposed to be jargon-free (as stated on the website), and the bar is not a menu bar.19:31
hannieEven from jorge Castro :)19:31
PaddyLandauBut I think if we stick to standards and simply qualify what we mean when we introduce the term, it will be OK to call it the menu bar.19:32
godbykPaddyLandau: Though some people said that 'menu bar' (or 'menubar'?) is what appears in the UI.19:32
CrustyBarnaclePaddyLandau: "menu bar" is a UI name, not jargon.19:32
hannieif we want to suggest another term, we should contact the gui developers first19:32
CrustyBarnacle+1 contact devlopers19:32
PaddyLandauWell, my vote is to stick with the jargon ("menu bar") unless we have a good reason to do otherwise.19:32
godbykI think our best bet is to ensure that the manual's terminology matches that which the user will see in the user interface.19:32
hannieI suggest we use menu bar for the moment (Quantal). What do you guys think?19:33
godbykWe can, in addition, mention synonymous names that they'll find others calling it in the forums and on mailing lists, though.19:33
PaddyLandaugodbyk & hannie: Agreed.19:33
ajmontagmy vote is for Menubar19:33
CrustyBarnaclemenu bar19:33
hannieajmontag, two words19:33
PaddyLandauTwo words, please: "menu bar".19:33
godbykFor example: The menu bar (also called the top bar or the panel) ...19:33
ajmontagah, agreed.19:33
hanniegodbyk, yes we can explain that19:33
godbykhannie: We should use one or two words -- however it appears in the user interface.19:33
PaddyLandauThe same would apply to the Launcher but in reverse: "The Launcher (the left side bar)..."19:34
godbykHaving said that, someone else point out that the global menu may become optional in 12.10 and applications can have menubars in their windows again. In which case the terminology used in the Unity UI may change. So we'll have to keep an eye on that.19:34
CrustyBarnacleWill the agreed upon terms be added to a Style Guide?19:34
godbykCrustyBarnacle: Yes. I'll try to make sure that all of this makes it into the style guide.19:35
godbyk(The trick then being coercing authors and editors to read the style guide. ;-))19:35
hanniegodbyk, the more reason to stick to menu bar for the moment?19:35
godbykOur of curiosity, how many here have read the style guide (in whole or in part)?19:35
PaddyLandauI have in whole though I admit parts were scanned.19:35
ChrisWoollardI have19:36
CrustyBarnacleRead19:36
ChrisWoollardish19:36
hanniegodbyk, I think it is getting better and better19:36
ChrisWoollardmostly19:36
godbykhannie: At the moment, I think menu bar is fine. We'll change it if we need to in the future.19:36
CrustyBarnacleNext item? Screenshot?19:36
hanniePerhaps we should mail to everyone that the style guide is a MUST19:36
godbykI don't think many people need to read the entire guide, actually. If you're not a translator, you don't really need to read the translation chapter, after all.19:36
CrustyBarnacleDoesn't hurt to read it all :-)19:37
hanniegodbyk, sorry for asking you about /gls while I could have looked in the style guide19:37
PaddyLandaugodbyk: This is a manual that needs a consistent interface. Who would *not* need to read the Style Guide?19:37
ajmontagI glanced through the style guide before I started, then used it as a reference as I went.19:37
godbykI have been adding things to the style guide as I encounter them when editing the manual as well.19:37
godbykDo you think it's helpful if I email the list when I add new info to the style guide?19:38
godbykOr do you you regularly re-download the style guide when you want to reference it?19:38
hannieyes, it is helpful19:38
godbykOkay, I'll try to do a better job of that in the future, then.19:38
PaddyLandauYes, definitely helpful. I re-downloaded only when you emailed us.19:38
CrustyBarnaclegodbyk: Weekly summary if any updates/changes made?19:38
godbykCrustyBarnacle: That could work, too.19:39
hannieit reminds people that they should use the style guide more often19:39
ajmontaghannie: +119:39
godbyk#topic Ubunto 12.10 release schedule19:39
godbykThe release schedule for Ubuntu 12.10 is at <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule>19:39
godbyk#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule19:40
godbykSome highlights are:19:40
godbykFeature freeze: 23 August19:40
godbykUI freeze: 30 August19:40
godbykBeta 2 freeze: 20 September19:40
godbykFinal release: 18 October19:40
hannieI haven'tried this yet, ut can I use Virtual Box while having Ubuntu installed inside Windows (Wubi)?19:40
godbykThe big question is: Do you think we could release the manual on 18 October (or shortly afterward)?19:40
hannie*but19:40
godbykhannie: I'm not sure. I've never tried that.19:41
PaddyLandauhannie: You can have as many machines as you like on Virtual Box. You can also run more than one at the same time, but beware: you need the RAM! How much RAM does your machine have?19:41
hanniewubi has 30 GB I think19:42
hannieThe machine has much more of course19:42
PaddyLandauSorry, I misread; WUBI is separate from Virtual Box. You can certainly run Ubuntu in Virtual Box while your host is either WUBI or Windows.19:42
CrustyBarnacleoff topic... back to manual :-), please :)19:42
hanniehey commandoline welcome19:42
PaddyLandauSorry. Hannie, we can take this to email.19:42
hanniePaddyLandau, ok19:42
commandolinehi hannie & everyone else19:42
godbykHey, commandoline.19:43
hanniegodbyk, commandoline is a python expert :)19:43
godbykcommandoline: The meeting agenda is online at http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-Q-1stmeeting19:43
godbykhannie, commandoline: Ah, excellent!19:43
hanniegodbyk, sorry about the VB detour. Just proceed19:44
godbykhannie: no problem.19:44
godbykDoes anyone have any thoughts on trying to release the manual on 18 October with the final release of Ubuntu 12.10?  Doable?  Insane?19:44
hannieI think most of the Precise manual is reusable19:45
ajmontagI think it would be possible.19:45
hannietherefore it will take less time to write for the new version19:45
CrustyBarnacleDoable. Main changes are screenshots and Troubleshooting?19:45
PaddyLandauHeck, why not? Provided that we can provides "updates" to the installation. If you can install the manual through the Ubuntu Software Centre, can you send updates to it? Then people get the updates automatically?19:45
godbykThe UI freeze is set for 30 August, but we know that there are always lots of UI freeze exceptions and that Canonical likes to dump a lot of last-minute changes in after the fact. (They're sneaky that way.)19:46
godbykThe Beta 2 freeze if 20 September, however.19:46
godbykAt that point, it should be stable enough for us to install it and check to ensure all the details are correct.19:46
godbykPaddyLandau: I'm not sure. I presume so.19:46
PaddyLandauThere's plenty of work. Do we have the manpower?19:47
ajmontagI think we could begin authoring on 20 September (beta 2 freeze)19:47
hannieBeta 2 should be stable enough19:47
CrustyBarnacleSo... Final draft: mid-September, Releases: Oct 18?19:47
godbykWell, final draft would be closer to the release date.. sometime near mid-October.19:47
hannieI will not be available in August, so others will have to take over in that period19:48
PaddyLandauHow about this... We aim for final release 17th October (so it's available for the 12.10 release the day after); but accept that if things go wrong, we let the date slip.19:48
ajmontag*if* we begin authoring at the beta 2 freeze, that would likely put our release a month after the Ubuntu release19:48
ajmontagPaddyLandau: +119:48
godbykWe spent roughly two months on the 12.04 cycle.19:50
godbykDid that seem like enough time?  Was it rushed?  Did it take too long?19:50
ajmontagI thought it was just right.19:51
CrustyBarnacleQuantal DocumentationStringFreeze : Sept. 20 <-- Can we have a draft to review by then?19:51
PaddyLandauQuite rushed for me, but I prefer it that way; it doesn't drag out.19:51
CrustyBarnacleIt was a good amount - Faster then previous cycles, but felt like the right pace.19:51
ChrisWoollardPersonally, I was pleased that it was done so quickly. Much better than previous cycles19:51
hannieI think 2 months is just right19:51
godbykChrisWoollard: hannie's quite the task-master. ;-)19:51
godbykOkay, so let's see how two months fits in to the Ubuntu 12.10 release schedule...19:52
godbykIt we release October 18, we need to start work August 18.19:52
CrustyBarnacleIf we Release on  Oct. 18, then we start Aug. 16-23-ish? Yes19:52
godbykSince feature freeze is 23 August, it ought to work out fairly well.19:52
PaddyLandauI think we should release Oct. 17th, the day before the official release.19:53
godbykWe can start taking screenshots after Beta 2 (20 September).19:53
PaddyLandauHow long does it take to get into the Ubuntu Software Centre?19:53
CrustyBarnacle+1 to starting at FeatureFreeze19:53
godbykWere there any phases of our manual's release cycle that seemed too short or too long?19:53
godbykDid we spent too much or too little time writing or editing?19:53
hannie+1 starting end of August19:53
godbykDid anyone feel like they were sitting on their hands with nothing to do for a long period of time?19:53
ChrisWoollardQ: Isn't the default wallpater not updated until the release candiate some time19:54
hanniegodbyk, that depended on the chapter19:54
CrustyBarnaclegodbyk: Waiting for author responses for Troubleshooting. Wasted a lot of time when I had time :-/19:54
hannieChrisWoollard, I agree on not starting too early with the screenshots19:54
godbykPaddyLandau: Well, we submit our PDF to the App Review Board and they review it during one of their meetings. They're supposed to meet twice monthly, but another site said their next meeting was a month out when I looked. So they may be meeting at the end of each month instead of every two weeks now.19:54
hannieLet's give the text priority19:54
ChrisWoollardI would say, start the screenshots at whatever point the wallpaper is updated.19:55
godbykPaddyLandau: If they continue to meet at the end of each month (and they're not swamped), then we should see the manual in the Software Center toward the beginning of November, I expect.19:55
CrustyBarnacleScreenshots after/starting at Beta 2 +119:55
PaddyLandaugodbyk: Can we take the Ubuntu Software Centre to a private email tomorrow to avoid cluttering this chat?19:55
ChrisWoollardObiously some can be done earlier if they done have the wallpaper19:55
godbykChrisWoollard: Quite possibly. It seems like they always push UI changes up to the last possible second. It makes taking oodles of screenshots a right pain.19:56
godbykPaddyLandau: Sure.19:56
godbykOkay, since we don't have a lot of people at this meeting how about I draft a set of milestones for the 12.10 release of the manual and send it to the list for comments?19:57
godbykThen we can discuss any objections and changes there.19:57
CrustyBarnaclegodbyk: +119:57
godbykOkay, next up:19:58
godbyk#topic Ubuntu Manual website19:58
godbykWe've been using the same website for a couple years now and I think it's time we overhauled it.19:58
ChrisWoollard+119:58
godbykAt the moment, any time we want to change the text on the website, or publish a new manual to the site, I log into the web server and hand-edit a bunch of files.19:58
godbykIt's not a very efficient way to go about doing things and it's prone to error.19:59
godbykPaddyLandau suggested that we take a look at WordPress as an option.19:59
godbykAnd hannie had someone who is poking at the Drupal site that we have at http://test.ubuntu-manual.org to see how awful it may be.20:00
PaddyLandauI far prefer the current site to the test one.20:00
ChrisWoollardWorpress could work. Depends if it does everything we need.20:00
PaddyLandauBut I'd avoid Drupal. Although a good site, it takes plenty of work.20:00
PaddyLandauI mean CMS, not site.20:00
CrustyBarnacleCurrent site looks good.20:01
hanniePaddyLandau, the test site is not usable yet20:01
godbykOur current site (not the test site) is written in PHP. It has a lot of bugs and I have to update it by hand.20:01
PaddyLandauI am willing to set up a test WordPress site so that we can fiddle and check whether or not it will do what we need without tears and gnashing of teeth.20:01
godbykI'd like to have a web interface so that others can help maintain the site (e.g., update instructions, publish manuals, etc.).20:01
godbykPaddyLandau: I was in the midst of replying to your WordPress email when the meeting started.20:02
PaddyLandauWordPress is entirely web-based, and you can assign people various administrator or author.20:02
CrustyBarnacleWordpress would provide that. It's all PHP to MySQL backend20:02
godbykPaddyLandau: It looks like the translation stuff you linked to is about translating the WordPress admin pages. I didn't notice anything about translating the content of the blog entries or static pages, though. (I may have missed it, though, so if it's there feel free to point me at it.)20:02
PaddyLandauAh, sorry. I shall get onto the WordPress forums tomorrow and ask. If there is nothing, it would be more difficult and may not be a suitable solution.20:03
godbykcommandoline: Are you the Marten that hannie spoke of?20:03
commandolinegodbyk: I am20:03
godbykPaddyLandau: The other WordPress questions I had were: (1) it'd be nice to preserve our existing URIs either through WordPress or a .htaccess/mod_rewrite file.20:04
godbykPaddyLandau: (2) I wonder if we can make the downloads page work under wordpress.20:04
godbykcommandoline: I don't know if hannie saw my reply yet, but the test site (in Drupal) is available on Launchpad. Let me grab the link for you.20:04
PaddyLandau(1) WordPress allows you tailor your URIs, so that's not a problem. You can also use mod_rewrite through .htaccess if you want.20:04
godbykcommandoline: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/0.320:04
commandolinegodbyk: nice :)20:04
hanniePaddyLandau, godbyk is it possible to explain in 2 words what this WordPress is?20:04
PaddyLandau(2) That is something I have started to investigate. It is definitely possible, but may need some simple PHP, which I can code.20:05
godbykhannie: WordPress is primarily a blog engine.20:05
godbykhannie: But in addition to the usual dated blog entries, you can also create static pages -- pages that don't change frequently -- like those on our existing site.20:05
hanniebut what we want is make a new website20:05
hannieaha20:06
godbykWordPRess provides a web interface so you can create and edit pages/text through the website itself instead of editing the source files directly.20:06
CrustyBarnacleWordPress also allows workflow: Author --> Editor/Approval --> Publish20:07
godbykIf we can get WordPress (or a plugin) to allow us to easily translate the content of the site, I think WordPress would be a good option.20:07
PaddyLandauHannie: Look at Macleans for an example of a WordPress website: http://www2.macleans.ca/20:07
godbykWe could use its static pages for the stuff that doesn't change much (instructions, information, etc.) and the blog part for posting 'news' items (announcements of new manual releases, requests for help, etc.).20:08
hanniePaddyLandau, I'll have a look at it in a moment20:08
godbykPaddyLandau: Another option is that we can create a separate site for the downloads page so that WordPress doesn't have to manage that.20:08
PaddyLandaugodbyk: Generally, you won't use static pages at all. You use posts, but you set each post to be the type of page you want.20:09
PaddyLandauWe also don't need a separate site for downloads (if necessary). WordPress is entirely compatible with concurrent running of static non-WordPress pages on the same site.20:09
godbykPaddyLandau: Then we'd just need to (1) figure out how to translate WordPress content, and (2) build a downloads page and interface to upload the new manuals [which wouldn't be all that difficult].20:09
PaddyLandau(1) I shall investigate. (2) Definitely possible, just finding the easiest (i.e. most maintainable) way of doing it.20:09
PaddyLandauI shall let the list know when I have some answers.20:10
godbykPaddyLandau: Thanks!20:10
hannieAnd how about a site like our translation team wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/community/Vertaalteam20:10
ajmontaghere is a showcase of good wordpress sites:20:10
ajmontaghttp://wordpress.org/showcase/20:10
godbykhannie: The issue there is that we'd still need a way to translate the site and we'd need a nice downloads page.20:11
godbykcommandoline: If you have any questions about the current website or the test site, feel free to pester me. I may not have all the answers, but I'm happy to try and find them for you.20:11
godbykcommandoline: (I didn't write the code for either of the sites, but I do host both sites. And I've written chunks of the code for the current site.)20:12
commandolinegodbyk: ok, thanks. I'll give the test site a look.20:12
godbykDid anyone else have any questions or comments about the Ubuntu Manual website?20:12
CrustyBarnaclenext topic?20:13
godbyk#topic Spreadsheet20:13
godbykI think this might just be some notes that hannie added.20:14
godbykOne thing I might suggest we consider, however:20:14
godbykIf we can find someone who's interested in helping us with some web development work, we could have them create a web page for us to track the status of the chapters.20:14
CrustyBarnaclegodbyk: Any way to use launchpad for this?20:15
godbykSo instead of using the spreadsheet, they could use our website and see what our current phase/milestone is, what needs to be done, what's already been done, who's responsible for doing what, etc.20:15
PaddyLandauThere's probably a tool already available on the Internet to do this.20:15
PaddyLandauWhy not Google Docs?20:15
hannieI want to suggest the following:20:15
godbykCrustyBarnacle: Possibly, I'm not sure.  I tend to get lost frequently when I try to do stuff using Launchpad.20:15
TonyPgodbyk: A wiki page?20:15
ajmontagThere are lots of programs for tracking software development progress, and we may find something that can let us post online.20:15
godbykPaddyLandau: Probably. Well, the current spreadhseet is using Google Docs.20:15
godbykTonyP: I was thinking something a bit more structured.20:16
CrustyBarnaclegodbyk: Agreed, unfortunately...20:16
ajmontagAgile software development tools would be something to look for20:16
godbykajmontag: Would you like to poke around and see if you can find something simple that would fit our needs?20:16
PaddyLandauWhat specifically are you looking for? Project management?20:16
ajmontaggodbyk: working on it20:16
TonyPgodbyk: I could never get anything on the Google doc20:16
godbykIt'd be nice if an author could log in and update their status on the chapter.20:16
godbykThen everyone can see that chapter 5 is 65% rewritten.20:17
godbykAnd chapter 3 has been 30% edited.20:17
hanniegodbyk, we can share the spreadsheet with all team members20:17
godbykAnd that way hannie knows who to whip. ;-)20:17
godbykhannie: Do the team members update the spreadsheet themselves or do you and c7p handle the updates?20:17
hanniethus everyone can add the status of his chapter20:18
godbykWe can try that. I'm not picky. It was just a thought. :)20:18
hanniegodbyk, so far it was just me and c7p, but I can share this one with all our members20:18
godbyk#topic Any other business20:18
godbykOkay, was there anything else that anyone wanted to discuss before we end the meeting?20:19
hannieI do not have any questions20:19
PaddyLandauNo more from me.20:19
CrustyBarnaclenope20:19
TonyPJust want to apologise for getting to the meeting so late20:19
godbykTonyP: Ah, no worries.20:20
godbykNot everyone can make every meeting.20:20
godbykWe're happy when anyone shows up. :)20:20
hannieoh, c7p will send an email to all authors of Precise, asking if they want to work for the new version20:20
godbykhannie: Ah, great!20:20
TonyPYou are so kind!20:20
hannieI will do the same to our editors20:20
godbykhannie: Perfect!20:20
godbykhannie: I'll sit back and watch you and c7p work.20:21
ajmontagHere is some agile software (web based and free)20:21
ajmontaghttp://www.agilefant.org/20:21
ajmontaghere is a review and a screen:20:21
ajmontaghttp://www.agile-tools.net/agileprojectmanagement/agilefant.aspx20:21
ajmontagdisclaimer: I have never used this before :P20:21
PaddyLandauAre you sure it's web-based? The website talks about downloading the software.20:22
godbykajmontag: Cool. Thanks!  I'll take a look at it.  I think we probably only really need the review/overview screen. It doesn't have to be too detailed.20:22
hannieok, guys, it's time to relax. Thank you all for coming. Let's make Quantal even better!20:22
PaddyLandauThanks for holding the meeting.20:22
godbykThanks, everyone.20:22
* PaddyLandau waves goodbye.20:22
godbykI'll email the meeting minutes to the list soon.20:23
hanniegodbyk, thank you for being chai20:23
godbyk#endmeeting20:23
hannie*chair20:23
meetingologyMeeting ended Sat Jul 14 20:23:12 2012 UTC.20:23
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-07-14-19.10.moin.txt20:23
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-07-14-19.10.html20:23
godbykhannie: no problem!20:23
ChrisWoollardthanks20:23
CrustyBarnaclethanks all!20:23
hanniebye20:23
ajmontagPaddyLandau: no, I am not sure it is web based20:23
PaddyLandauajmontag: OK. no problem.20:23
PaddyLandauI have to go now.20:23
PaddyLandauBye everyone.20:24
TonyPBye from me20:24
ajmontagbye20:24
CrustyBarnaclebye20:24

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