[15:43] <godbyk> Hey, hannie. I just replied to your email to the list about the Places menu.
[15:43] <hannie> hi godbyk
[15:44] <hannie> ah, good.
[15:44] <hannie> I'll have a look
[15:44] <godbyk> Personally, I think we should focus on applying those fixes to the quantal branch and leaving the 12.10 manual as it is (bugs and all).  I could possibly be persuaded otherwise, however, if there are enough egregious errors.
[15:44] <hannie> Well, I think Precise is special because it is an LTS version
[15:44] <godbyk> I think it's perfectly fine (and preferable, even) if you want to fix those bugs as you're translating the manual, though.
[15:45] <hannie> Perhaps we can collect all the important fixes and do an update once?
[15:45] <godbyk> I don't think LTS is all that special. But even so the bugs so far have been relatively minor, I think.
[15:45] <godbyk> If there enough bugs, then we might.
[15:45] <godbyk> But release a new edition involves a bunch of stuff.
[15:46] <hannie> ok, I will make a list and see if they are important enough for an update
[15:46] <hannie> otherwise we wait for Quantal
[15:46] <godbyk> We have to generate the PDFs (easy), upload them to the website and lulu.com (more time consuming), update the translation template file (risks irking the translators), sending out press releases (confuses the community and possibly looks bad), etc.
[15:46] <hannie> I thought it so ): Not a piece of cake
[15:46] <godbyk> Sounds good.
[15:47] <godbyk> Keep reporting the bugs you find though. We'll definitely want to fix them in quantal.
[15:47] <godbyk> I think as translators, you probably read the manual more carefully than our authors and editors!
[15:48] <hannie> Yes, we translators really chew on those lengthy strings
[15:48] <godbyk> I was working on converting the manual to ePUB last weekend. Just playing around. And I found a bunch of little formatting problems here and there that I want to correct as well.
[15:48] <hannie> Ah, so there is plenty of work to do for you
[15:48] <hannie> A question on the file template:
[15:49] <hannie> How come the strings are so long? I ubuntu-docs they are much shorter
[15:49] <godbyk> I think it's because po4a turns each paragraph into a string.
[15:49] <hannie> But ubuntu-docs is also on LP
[15:49] <hannie> do they not use po4a?
[15:50] <godbyk> Do they write smaller paragraphs? :)
[15:50] <godbyk> Probably not.
[15:50] <godbyk> Well, they might. I'm not sure.
[15:50] <godbyk> But I think their source files are in some XML-based format.
[15:50] <godbyk> So they could be using po4a, I guess.
[15:50] <hannie> at least not the same as our format
[15:50] <godbyk> Right.
[15:51] <hannie> My fellow translators are not very enthousiastic, so much of the work will be done by me ):
[15:51] <godbyk> If it's the text you see when you click on the desktop and go to Help > Ubuntu Help, then it looks like those paragraphs are pretty short.
[15:51] <hannie> btw, I often use the term "fellow translators". Is that correct English?
[15:51] <godbyk> I don't blame them. It's a lot of work!
[15:51] <godbyk> Yep!
[15:52] <hannie> One more question: (a moment, please)
[15:52] <godbyk> np
[15:53] <hannie> What to do with strings like: Nautilus!window
[15:53] <hannie> type: index{#1}
[15:53] <godbyk> You can translate the words, but leave the punctuation alone.
[15:53] <godbyk> I added a list of \index commands to the translators chapter of the style guide last weekend, I think.
[15:53] <hannie> So it would be: Nautilus!venster
[15:53] <godbyk> If I missed any, feel free to let me know, though.
[15:53] <godbyk> Yes.
[15:54] <hannie> And both words need to be translated? Here Nautilus is the same in Dutch of course
[15:54] <godbyk> I was a bit disappointed in the index. I was hoping we'd have a lot more index entries. I spent quite a while fixing them to comply with my recommendations from the style guide, too. I'm not sure if anyone read it.
[15:55] <godbyk> Both words in that case, yes.
[15:55] <hannie> Ah, the index is another story.
[15:55] <godbyk> Nautilus is the main index entry, and venster is the subentry.
[15:55] <hannie> We should assign more people to that
[15:55] <godbyk> I think we either need to assign more people to it or just find one or two people who are really keen to do it and can work together and be consistent.
[15:56] <hannie> Or we should instruct editors to index their chapter properly
[15:56] <godbyk> It's a rather dull task, though, so I'm not sure that we'll find anyone who's really keen to do it.
[15:56] <godbyk> Given the errors we're finding in the manual, the editors may have their work cut out for them as it is.
[15:56] <hannie> Therefore I opt to let each editor index his own chapter
[15:57] <godbyk> I don't know who wrote or edited the section on the Places/Go menu, but that seems like something that someone should've discovered much earlier.
[15:57] <godbyk> I might try using Crocodoc to help with indexing in 12.10.
[15:57] <godbyk> Post the PDF and let the chapter authors and editors make suggestions as to what should be indexed on each page.
[15:58] <godbyk> Then I or someone else can go through and add all the \index commands.
[15:58] <godbyk> I think that'll help with consistency and formatting.
[15:58] <hannie> well, I am not sure about that.
[15:58] <godbyk> (The \index commands can be a bit tricky.)
[15:58] <hannie> that is very true
[15:58] <godbyk> I'm not sure what the best solution is either. Indexing is actually a rather difficult thing to do well.
[15:58] <godbyk> You have to place yourself in the position of the reader.
[15:59] <godbyk> You have to think, 'What would the reader look up in the index?'
[15:59] <hannie> Should we ask via the mailing list if people are interested in doing this special task?
[15:59] <godbyk> And not, 'I'm starting a new section here, I should add the section heading to the index.'
[15:59] <hannie> I agree that a good index is very important
[16:00] <hannie> I myself started too late on indexing chapter 2. It was far from perfect
[16:02] <hannie> btw, received a mail from John. He changed the spreadsheet (many authors will continue with their chapter)
[16:02] <godbyk> I saw that. That's good to hear!
[16:02] <godbyk> Something else I forgot to bring up at the meeting:
[16:03] <hannie> I still have to contact the editors (one thing at a time ;) )
[16:03] <godbyk> I think it might be helpful to have regularly scheduled meetings during 12.10.
[16:03] <godbyk> Meet every two weeks at the same, for example.
[16:03] <godbyk> That way we don't have to send out polls and wait for people to sign up and all that each time we decide to meet.
[16:03] <hannie> Well, I did think the meeting yesterday very useful
[16:04] <hannie> I was glad more and more people joined
[16:04] <hannie> It also makes us more of a team when we have regular meetings
[16:05] <hannie> So, yes, do suggest to have a meeting every 2 weeks or so
[16:05] <godbyk> I agree.
[16:05] <godbyk> Okay. I'll email the list and see if we can set that up.
[16:05] <godbyk> We can always schedule an extra meeting here or there if we need to.
[16:05] <hannie> right. Back to work then. Nice chat, cya
[16:05] <godbyk> Or cancel a meeting if we have nothing to discuss.
[16:05] <godbyk> Okay. Talk to you later, hannie!