[00:00] <robert_ancell> thumper, can you pastebin the full output?
[00:00] <thumper> robert_ancell: do you want the entire link line?
[00:01] <robert_ancell> thumper, yup
[00:02] <veebers> robert_ancell: here you go: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1094102/
[00:05] <robert_ancell> ugh cmake
[00:06] <robert_ancell> veebers, looks like you're not linking against gmodule. it has it's own .pc file and was split out at some point or something it used to be picked up by another dependency linking to it
[00:08] <veebers> robert_ancell: ah ok. That same command works on my desktop though, does that change anything?
[00:08] <robert_ancell> veebers, so I figure you have a slightly different linker and/or one of your dependencies are different
[00:09] <veebers> robert_ancell: cool, will check that out
[00:10] <veebers> robert_ancell: thanks for that
[00:37] <TheMuso> ls
[00:37] <TheMuso> whops
[01:58] <jasoncwarner_> hey robert_ancell, around?
[01:59] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, yep
[04:46] <pitti> Good morning
[05:38] <didrocks> good morning
[05:46] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
[05:47] <didrocks> pitti: guten morgen pitti! I'm fine, thanks, yourself? how was the week-end?
[05:47] <pitti> quite nice, thanks! we had a friend over again
[05:47] <didrocks> great ;)
[06:29] <rickspencer3> hooray, looks like the desktop is passing ISO tests again
[06:29] <rickspencer3> pitti, am I reading that right?
[06:29] <pitti> yay cjwatson
[06:29] <rickspencer3> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/
[06:29] <pitti> so I read in the changelog, anyway
[06:29] <rickspencer3> sweet
[06:29] <pitti> and jenkins, too
[06:29] <rickspencer3> that's good news
[06:30] <pitti> jibel should be back today, we'll fix autopkgtest
[06:31] <jibel> pitti, rickspencer3 good morning
[06:31] <rickspencer3> morning jibel
[06:31] <rickspencer3> I was just saying how nice it is to see the desktop passing ISO tests again ;)
[06:31] <pitti> bonjour jibel, ca va? enjoyed your holidays?
[06:32] <jibel> pitti, es geht gut. holidays were rainy and cold but relaxing, thanks :)
[06:33] <pitti> jibel: it wasn't terribly warm here either, but oh well, this is France! it must be sunny and warm!
[06:42]  * didrocks looks outside, yeah sun \o/
[06:48] <rickspencer3> didrocks, congrats on the migration session tool
[06:49] <didrocks> rickspencer3: thanks :)
[07:13] <Sweetshark> moin!
[07:15] <Sweetshark> cjohnston: could you copy over the two libreoffice packages in https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-quantaltest-20120601 to ppa:libreoffice/libreoffice-prereleases including binaries?
[07:16] <Sweetshark> ups
[07:16] <Sweetshark> cjohnston: that was intended for cjwatson, sorry
[07:59] <Laney> morning!
[08:20] <seb128> hey desktopers
[08:21] <pitti> bonjour seb128, ca va? had a nice weekend?
[08:21] <seb128> pitti, hey pitti, how are you? I had a good w.e thanks, though the weather is crap, we had rain on and off all w.e
[08:21] <pitti> seb128: was a bit better here; we had a friend over again, and went for some walking
[08:22] <pitti> Saturday evening we saw the Carmina Burana in Augsburg's open air stage, that was quite impressive
[08:22] <seb128> nice!
[08:23] <seb128> saturday was our national's fest, they manager to do the fireworks but the weather was not really nice to stay outside and enjoy it
[08:23] <seb128> it was like 15°C and has been rainy a lot like an hour before they started
[08:24]  * didrocks had a nicer weather and was able to see the fireworks
[08:30] <Laney> what were the fireworks for?
[08:30] <didrocks> Laney: to celebrate the national's fest :)
[08:30] <Laney> aha
[09:21] <dpm> hi desktop people. On 12.04 I quite often seem to hit a bug whereby when I log in, I'm presented with an empty dash, and can't launch any apps from there. Any ideas how to fix this without having to log out and log back in?
[09:21] <seb128> dpm, hey
[09:21] <seb128> mhr3, ^
[09:22] <dpm> morning seb128 ;)
[09:22] <seb128> dpm, is unity-files-daemon running when you have the bug?
[09:22] <seb128> dpm, do you get any error .in .xsession-errors?
[09:22] <seb128> dpm, when did that start?
[09:22] <mhr3> dpm, is it just apps lens?
[09:22] <dpm> seb128, let me have a look and come back to you
[09:23] <seb128> dpm, ups, I meant unity-applications-daemon
[09:23] <dpm> ok
[09:23] <mhr3> dpm, also check pls what zeitgeist processes are running (should be both -daemon and -fts)
[09:24] <dpm> So,
[09:24] <dpm> - unity-applications-daemon seems to be running
[09:24] <dpm> - it only seems to affect the apps lens
[09:25] <dpm> - It seems to happen quite often when I restart the computer and then do the first log in, although I can't tell if it's every time (I don't reboot too often)
[09:26] <dpm> - I noticed it a while ago (shortly after release, perhaps)
[09:26] <dpm> - both zeitgeist-fts and zeitgeist-daemon seem to be running
[09:27] <seb128> mhr3, ^
[09:28] <dpm> - can't see anything obvious on xsession-errors: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1094584/
[09:30] <mhr3> dpm, can you run the apps lens in terminal and see if it spits something?
[09:30] <dpm> mhr3, sure, how do I do that?
[09:30] <mhr3> /usr/lib/unity-lens-applications/unity-applications-daemon
[09:32] <dpm> ok, thanks, trying
[09:34] <dpm> mhr3, dpm@avenc:~$ /usr/lib/unity-lens-applications/unity-applications-daemon
[09:34] <dpm> Another instance of the Unity Applications Daemon already appears to be running.
[09:34] <dpm> Bailing out.
[09:34] <dpm> what's the best way to replace the running instance?
[09:34] <mhr3> dpm, pkill -f unity-applications-daemon
[09:34] <dpm> ok
[09:36] <dpm> mhr3, no joy, killed old u-a-d, started the new one on the terminal: no output, apps lens still empty
[09:36] <mhr3> dpm, try to wait up to 30 seconds
[09:36] <dpm> ok
[09:36] <mhr3> dpm, also try searching for something first
[09:37] <dpm> Yeah, searched for gedit, but still empty dash. I've also noticed that the spinner on the search box is constantly spinning and that when there is no entry on the search box, it appears untranslated 'Search Applications', unlike in the other lenses
[09:38] <dpm> mhr3, ^
[09:40] <mhr3> ok, this is getting pretty weird
[09:41] <mhr3> dpm, let's try this - kill the apps lens, run dbus-monitor and pipe the output to a file, then open the dash and search for something, wait 15seconds, ctrl+c the dbus-monitor, and upload the log somewhere
[09:42] <mhr3> dpm, actually if you have bustle-dbus-monitor, that'd be more useful
[09:42] <dpm> ok, give me a min
[09:50] <dpm> mhr3, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1094603/ although I cannot see any reference to what I searched for: 'gedit'
[09:56] <mhr3> dpm, that's weird, your unity isn't even talking to the apps lens
[09:56] <mhr3> like it wasn't even there
[09:57] <mhr3> dpm, /usr/share/unity/lenses/applications ?
[09:57] <mhr3> is the lens file in there?
[09:57] <seb128> dpm, does logging out and back in usually fixes it?
[09:57] <dpm> seb128, yes
[09:57] <dpm> mhr3, dpm@avenc:~$ ls /usr/share/unity/lenses/applications
[09:57] <dpm> applications.lens
[09:58] <seb128> mhr3, weird that restarting the session fixes it, not likely an install issue
[09:58] <mhr3> right
[10:03] <mhr3> dpm, so one more thing - try installing the pkg with unity-tool and run unity-tool -l /usr/share/.../applications.lens -s "" -r
[10:05] <dpm> mhr3, 'try installing the pkg with unity-tool' <- I'm not familiar with unity-tool, how do I do that?
[10:05] <mhr3> $ unity-tool
[10:05] <mhr3> blah blah.. the binary not found.. try installing xyz
[10:06] <mhr3> plus apt-get install xyz of course :)
[10:07] <dpm> ah, ok, you mean actually installing unity-tool, gotcha
[10:07] <dpm> it seems I had it installed already
[10:07] <mhr3> ah, didn't know it's installed by default
[10:08] <mhr3> so just run that ^^ with the complete path
[10:08] <dpm> mhr3, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1094628/
[10:09] <mhr3> dpm, looks like the lens works
[10:09] <mhr3> do you still see nothing in the apps lens view (not home)
[10:11] <dpm> mhr3, nope, http://ubuntuone.com/6xZw3DuoM5Oy0kww7UCJhs
[10:12] <mhr3> dpm, so... your unity decides to not talk to the lens
[10:12] <dpm> they might have had an argument
[10:12] <mhr3> i think so
[10:13] <mhr3> i'd expect the compiz log to show something
[10:13] <mhr3> but if it happens only on first start then that's gonna be hard to come by
[10:13] <dpm> bummer
[10:14] <mhr3> seb128, ideas^^?
[10:16] <seb128> mhr3, not really
[10:16] <seb128> dpm, when did that start?
[10:16] <mhr3> dpm, and just to make sure `unity-tool -l /usr/share/.../applications.lens -s "gedit" -r` does list gedit, right?
[10:18] <dpm> seb128, it's nothing new, I think I noticed it shortly after release, but as I don't reboot that often, I don't notice it often
[10:18] <dpm> dpm@avenc:~$ unity-tool -l /usr/share/unity/lenses/applications/applications.lens -s "" -r | grep gedit
[10:18] <dpm> 0xeba440:application://gedit.desktop	accessories-text-editor	2	application/x-desktop	Editor de text	Editeu fitxers de text	file:///usr/share/applications/gedit.desktop
[10:18] <dpm> 0xeba440:application://gedit.desktop	accessories-text-editor	0	application/x-desktop	Editor de text	Editeu fitxers de text	file:///usr/share/applications/gedit.desktop
[10:18] <dpm> mhr3, yes, it seems to do so ^
[10:18] <mhr3> yea, so lens works indeed
[10:19] <seb128> dpm, weird :-(
[10:20] <mhr3> the only explanation that comes to mind is that the startup of apps lens takes too long, unity times out to get the proxy and then it never retries
[10:21] <mhr3> apps lens is reading all .desktop files, so afterwards it'll be in kernel disk cache and will work
[10:21] <dpm> mhr3, actually, that might tie in with something else I've noticed: on first start after reboot, after I enter my password, it takes like 3-4 mins for the desktop to come up and before I can use it
[10:22] <dpm> so I usually log in, go for a coffe and then go back
[10:22] <mhr3> dpm, so... new disk? :)
[10:22] <dpm> lol
[10:22] <dpm> well, the disk works perfectly fine, it's only first logins that take ages
[10:23] <mhr3> it'd call that a sign of not working perfectly :)
[10:23] <dpm> I don't know what's going on behind the scenes or what might cause it to take that long to put the desktop up
[10:23] <mhr3> damaged disk blocks?
[10:23] <dpm> well, I would have noticed the slowness during the session, I guess?
[10:23] <dpm> the only slowness is on login
[10:24] <mhr3> might be just a small part of the disk affected
[10:24] <dpm> hm, not sure, but I can check the disk for errors
[10:24] <mhr3> you can always try to install on a new partition
[10:25] <dpm> I think for now I'll just log out and log back in, it will take me a few hours less time :)
[10:25] <mhr3> dpm, indeed, but i'd start doing regular backups if i were you :)
[10:27] <dpm> mhr3, I do them already, but I won't write off the disk until I know more, I'm still not convinced it is due to it. Anyway, thanks mhr3 and seb128 for the help!
[10:28] <mhr3> dpm, one last thing: echo $XDG_DATA_DIRS
[10:28] <mhr3>  ?
[10:28] <dpm> mhr3, $ echo $XDG_DATA_DIRS
[10:28] <dpm> /usr/share/ubuntu:/usr/share/gnome:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/
[10:28] <mhr3> hmm, looks fine
[10:29] <mhr3> but yea, it also might be some misconfiguration somewhere, something gets wrong path and recursively tries to read too much of your disk and that causes the slowness
[10:39] <dpm> mhr3, oh, I noticed I still had bootchart enabled, so I can have a look at what's going on. Unfortunately it gets cropped after 105s http://ubuntuone.com/0bJuPX67olldcqEPUT7ZkE
[10:40] <mhr3> hmm, don't even see compiz there
[10:40] <mhr3> dpm, so yea, you need to increase it
[10:41] <dpm> yeah, no idea how to do that, and the bootchart docs don't seem to say anything about it, trying to find out now...
[11:15] <Laney> pitti: Hey, I'm looking at the glib update. Does http://paste.ubuntu.com/1094699/ match your understanding of your patches which were upstreamed?
[11:41] <pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
[11:41] <pitti> Laney: yeah, that looks right
[11:41] <Laney> Good! I'm starting to arrange house viewings to move next month. Exciting!
[11:41] <Laney> you?
[11:42] <Laney> rock
[11:43] <pitti> Laney: oh, good luck with that then!
[11:43] <pitti> Laney: thanks, I'm quite fine; a friend visited us over the weekend again
[11:43] <Laney> Finally moving out of shared accommodation :P
[13:07] <kenvandine> larsu, welcome back!
[13:07] <kenvandine> larsu, hope you had a great vacation... PPA is up :)  https://launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/lmm
[13:08] <larsu> hi kenvandine. Thanks!
[13:45] <bcurtiswx> good morning
[13:45] <kenvandine> good morning bcurtiswx
[13:45] <bcurtiswx> hey kenvandine
[13:46] <bcurtiswx> what type of gobject is the empathy contact list? gtktable ?
[13:48] <bcurtiswx> two things that don't work with my ubuntu-on-mac-using-flashdrive-as-root-partition is the contact list (although I still appear online and receibe messages) and the twitter authorize that appears in gwibber
[13:49] <bcurtiswx> on quantal
[14:42] <didrocks> pitti: hey, small question for you on software-properties and the ubuntu-drivers backend as I'll finish the job
[14:42] <didrocks> pitti: if I look at the spec (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareAndUpdatesSettings#drivers), I see various states:
[14:42] <didrocks>  “This device is using the recommended driver.”, “This device is using a manually-installed driver.”, “This device is using an alternative driver.”, or “This device is not working.”
[14:42] <didrocks> it seems that the backend doesn't provide that. IIRC jockey had this "recommended" notion?
[14:45] <pitti> didrocks: we don't actually have a way yet to detect "a manually installed driver"
[14:46] <didrocks> pitti: and for the 3 other states, from what cyphermox showed me, the API doesn't provide that (or there is another API call I should know about? :))
[14:46] <pitti> didrocks: as for "recommended", we can put add that to the info dictionary returned by system_driver_packages() ?
[14:46] <didrocks> yeah, that seems to be the right spot to me
[14:46] <pitti> that at least shifts the guesswork to the API
[14:46] <didrocks> right, I'm all for the logic being there :)
[14:47] <cyphermox> yup
[14:47] <pitti> can you please file a bug about it?
[14:47] <pitti> preferrably with some definition of what "recommended" should mean
[14:47] <didrocks> sure, pitti can/should I help you on that or you will be faster than me to start understanding it? :)
[14:47] <pitti> jockey only has it to tell apart the different nvidia driver versions
[14:47] <didrocks> mpt: can you file the definition once I filed the bug report?
[14:48] <pitti> i. e. whether you should isntall 173 or 196 or whatnot
[14:48] <pitti> but in between the free ati and fglrx, or nouveau and nvidia, I do not want to make a call on what's recommended
[14:48] <pitti> they both suck differently :)
[14:48] <laserbled> Hi, i need help. I am an 12.04 with all new updates and when ever I play flash in mozilla/chrome the cpu usage shoots really high. I am on a quad core, and have nvidia integrated graphics...can someone tell me whats wrong ?. There is no issues in my 10.10
[14:48] <pitti> as for broadcom, there is really no other option, and the GUI shoudl already know this
[14:49] <didrocks> pitti: heh, indeed ;)
[14:49] <didrocks> pitti: second question (there are 3): it seems the screenshot if showing nouveau, but there is no nouveau given back by the API, is that considered as a bug?
[14:49] <pitti> no, it's not
[14:49] <pitti> u-d does not know, and cannot "install" nouveau
[14:49] <pitti> you can install and remove nvidia
[14:50] <didrocks> so, we should just special case "nvidia" in the ui?
[14:50] <pitti> if you don't have nvidia-* installed, you use nouveau
[14:50] <pitti> didrocks: yes, it needs a lot of special-casing already
[14:50] <pitti> didrocks: as we have three different versions of it
[14:50] <pitti> and another three -updates variants
[14:50] <pitti> same for -updates for fglrx
[14:50] <didrocks> 3 different nvidia in driver, you mean?
[14:50] <pitti> these 8 driver packages need special casing
[14:50] <didrocks> s/in//
[14:51] <pitti> we have six different nvidia packages :)
[14:51] <didrocks> hum, do you have a list? cyphermox did you touch that? ^
[14:51] <didrocks> pitti: so the backend gives me everything that the card can support and I need to add some other case?
[14:51] <pitti> nvidia-{96,173,current}{,-updates}, fglrx{,-updates}
[14:51]  * didrocks is lost
[14:51] <pitti> didrocks: ^
[14:51] <pitti> didrocks: no, not add another case, just present it in a better way than showing 6 differnet separate entries
[14:51] <didrocks> like fglrx, I should have an "ATI free driver" that I add by hand?
[14:52] <pitti> ah, right
[14:52] <didrocks> ok, seems good then :)
[14:52] <pitti> well, I'm not objecting to adding another API to u-d-common which has these special cases
[14:52]  * didrocks notes down
[14:52] <pitti> especially if it's going to be reused in the KDE frontend
[14:52] <didrocks> pitti: what do you think? does it makes sense?
[14:52] <pitti> but it needs to sit on top of system_driver_packages() then
[14:52] <didrocks> yeah, maybe for the KDE frontend
[14:53] <didrocks> yeah, system_driver_packages_with_free_alternatives() :p
[14:53] <pitti> if you give me an API how it should look like, I can then tell you whether I can implement it :)
[14:53]  * didrocks writes that down
[14:53] <cyphermox> didrocks: no, I'm just getting what UbuntuDrivers gives me
[14:53] <pitti> didrocks: I guess you rather want something which groups the driver packages by device or something
[14:54] <didrocks> pitti: exactly
[14:54]  * didrocks should try the current API by hand
[14:54] <didrocks> and see what we can get
[14:54] <pitti> didrocks: are you aware of the fake wrapper for testing? (I mentioned it in the bug report)
[14:55] <didrocks> pitti: linked to the "per device", seems the spec have device types https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareAndUpdatesSettings#drivers
[14:55] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I saw it, it will be really handy! :)
[14:56]  * didrocks upgrades to get it and test it btw
[14:58] <didrocks> pitti: did you see my question about device type?
[14:59] <pitti> didrocks: where, here? (sorry, team meeting nwo)
[15:00] <didrocks> pitti: there is a "per device" like "Graphics Card", "Wifi card" on the spec, not sure that can be handled?
[15:00] <pitti> didrocks: for the known packaged drivers, yes (just heuristics)
[15:00] <pitti> for some third-party driver, no
[15:01] <didrocks> ok, will do the first round without it for now I guess
[15:01] <pitti> didrocks: please let me know in bug reports what else you need
[15:02] <didrocks> pitti: thanks! I'll open the 2 bugs! for the recommended and so on, getting mpt defining this, and the API about free alternatives. If I can help you for anything…
[15:02] <pitti> right now it's just the API which we can support for any driver package
[15:02] <pitti> no guesswork
[15:06] <didrocks> pitti: the wrapper is working well, what risk am I taking if I try to install anything? :)
[15:06] <pitti> didrocks: if you have an intel card, nothing
[15:07] <didrocks> pitti: sweet! doing then :)
[15:07] <didrocks> thanks a lot pitti
[15:07] <pitti> didrocks: if you do have an amd or nvidia card, well, you'll use the proprietary driver then
[15:10] <mpt> didrocks, mpt: I understood that there were recommended vs. alternative drivers. If there aren't, we need to work out a way of presenting a short understandable choice.
[15:11] <didrocks> mpt: let me open a bug, we can discuss this there, 5 minutes :)
[15:11] <mpt> Because that's soooo much quicker than IRC
[15:11]  * mpt ducks
[15:15] <seb128> mlankhorst, hey
[15:16] <didrocks> mpt: Martin wanted a bug report because to be able to decipher thats quietly then and he's in a meeting
[15:16] <didrocks> mpt: and no, I'm not knowledgeable at all about it
[15:17] <bcurtiswx> Settings->Details it shows Driver Unknown and Experience Standard.  I'm using he X_SWAT PPA, is that the reason why?
[15:18] <didrocks> tseliot: I just installed nvidia-current on my machine, and I see no /var/run/reboot-required, is that known/wanted?
[15:18] <bcurtiswx> the graphics section* sory
[15:19] <bcurtiswx> didrocks, in the Details app (in settings) under the graphics section what shows up ?
[15:20] <didrocks> bcurtiswx: same that for you
[15:20] <didrocks> than*
[15:21] <bcurtiswx> didrocks, thanks
[15:23] <jbicha> bcurtiswx: bug 914631
[15:23] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 914631 in mesa-demos "[mir] mesa-demos" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/914631
[15:25] <mlankhorst> seb128: yes?
[15:25] <seb128> mlankhorst, hey, how are you?
[15:25] <mlankhorst> bit sickly atm :)
[15:25] <seb128> mlankhorst, I've an xorg bug for you, let's use #ubuntu-x
[15:25] <mlankhorst> k
[15:25] <seb128> mlankhorst, oh, sorry to read that :-( get better!
[15:26] <bcurtiswx> jbicha, thanks :)
[15:28] <didrocks> mpt: bug #1025315
[15:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1025315 in ubuntu-drivers-common "Get some recommended/alternatives info from a driver" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025315
[15:42] <didrocks> pitti: bug #1025315 and API discussion on bug #1025323
[15:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1025315 in ubuntu-drivers-common "Get some recommended/alternatives info from a driver" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025315
[15:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1025323 in ubuntu-drivers-common "Add an API to list free drivers by kernel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025323
[15:50] <pitti> didrocks: merci!
[15:50] <pitti> good night everyone
[15:51] <didrocks> pitti: have a good night pitti, and danke schöne!
[15:59] <tseliot> didrocks: yes, that would be nice to have
[16:00] <didrocks> tseliot: do you have any plan to implement that? seems quite straightforward and avoid hacks in software-properties?
[16:01] <tseliot> didrocks: how does it work? Shall I just create a /var/run/reboot-required ?
[16:01] <didrocks> tseliot: let me look at what the kernel does, but yeah, basically touching the file is enough
[16:02] <didrocks> just need to look if there is no other hidden magic :)
[16:02] <tseliot> didrocks: ok, thanks, let me know
[16:02] <didrocks> tseliot: so the kernel is doing this:
[16:03] <didrocks> my $notifier          = "/usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required";
[16:03] <didrocks> # Warn of a reboot
[16:03] <didrocks> if (-x $notifier) {
[16:03] <didrocks>   system($notifier);
[16:03] <didrocks> }
[16:03] <didrocks> tseliot: seems easy, just executing the right helper :)
[16:03] <didrocks> ATI/nvidia can make good use of this :)
[16:03] <tseliot> didrocks: what file did you check in the kernel packaging?
[16:04] <didrocks> tseliot: /var/lib/dpkg/info/linux-image-extra-3.5.0-4-generic.postinst for instance
[16:04] <didrocks> /var/lib/dpkg/info/network-manager.postinst has something similar
[16:04] <tseliot> didrocks: ok, thanks, I'll make sure that the drivers do something like that
[16:05] <didrocks> tseliot: thanks a lot :)
[16:13] <Sweetshark> seb128: replied in bug
[16:15] <Sweetshark> seb128: can we sponsor https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/libreoffice-prereleases/+sourcepub/2567713/+listing-archive-extra into quantal soonish? any volunteers?
[16:15] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
[16:15] <seb128> Sweetshark, can do, is it good to go?
[16:22] <Sweetshark> seb128: mostly. I assume there are already quite a few people testing it from the ppa. But I havent tried arm yet. I should do that.
[16:22] <Sweetshark> seb128: jamespage is eagerly waiting for it for bug 1023405 though..
[16:23] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1023405 in libreoffice "please transition libservlet2.5-java -> libservlet3.0-java and then demote tomcat6 source and binaries to universe" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023405
[16:23] <seb128> Sweetshark, right, I will sponsoring it in a bit or tomorrow morning if I don't get to it tonight
[16:51] <Sweetshark> seb128: hoping Im not hurting myself with my honesty: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lo-menubar/+bug/1021946/comments/23
[16:51] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1021946 in lo-menubar "lo-menubar 0.1.1 from updates repositories makes plasma-desktop to crash" [High,Invalid]
[16:54] <seb128> Sweetshark, the key point is "However, doing the same with LibreOffice 3.5.3, I can get the same result, so not a regression."
[16:54] <seb128> Sweetshark, so that's good, it means no need to block the SRU since that's not created by it
[16:55] <micahg> yes, but that's not the bug steps that were reported, that's another case that can reproduce the same resilts
[16:55] <seb128> micahg, at this point there is no step reported nor anyone else being able to trigger the issue
[16:56] <seb128> micahg, which means we block an important update because it might create an issue for some users who run an optional universe package on the non default desktop
[16:57] <seb128> micahg, seems like be penalize 99% of users for what could or could not be a new bug happening to 0.01% of users
[16:58] <seb128> be->we
[16:58]  * kenvandine agrees with seb128
[16:58] <didrocks> indeed, seems sensible to at last getting this update
[17:01] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, a bzr bd-do using an ubuntu-desktop branch should work right?
[17:01] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, for what?
[17:01] <bcurtiswx> empathy
[17:02] <kenvandine> what's bd-do ?
[17:02] <kenvandine> bzr bd should work
[17:03] <didrocks> kenvandine: you don't know bzr bd-do? :)
[17:03] <seb128> bcurtiswx, what error do you get?
[17:03] <micahg> seb128: kubuntu is in main in 12.04, I can try to reproduce in a clean VM, as I saw the desktop crash with the proposed updates (although in a guest session which might have caused other bugs), I wanted to see the behaviour without the updates first to see if there was a regression or not, the question is does lo 3.5.3 and lo-menubar 0.10 behave differently than 3.5.4 and lo-menubar 0.10 (in order to push the lo SRU out and drop the lo-menuba
[17:03] <micahg> r one)
[17:03] <seb128> kenvandine, how do you refresh patches?
[17:03] <kenvandine> i ctrl-c in a build
[17:03] <kenvandine> and use quilt
[17:03] <seb128> micahg, right, but lo-menubar is not in main
[17:04] <kenvandine> i guess this is easier
[17:04] <bcurtiswx> seb128, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1095187/
[17:04] <didrocks> waow :)
[17:04] <didrocks> kenvandine: bzr bd-do is project the tarball content as well as the packaging directory
[17:04] <seb128> kenvandine, bzr bd-do is "I give you the unpacked source, hack away, I will apply your diff to the vcs when you exit"
[17:04] <micahg> seb128: that's fine, but if it works beforehand, that means lo is doing something different in the update that's breaking something
[17:04] <didrocks> in the ../build-area/package_version
[17:04] <kenvandine> excellent
[17:04]  * kenvandine will try that next time :)
[17:05] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, looks like the patch needs updating
[17:05] <didrocks> kenvandine: a world of warning with source 3 though: it will try to apply the quilt patches and if one fails, you're screwed :/
[17:05] <micahg> seb128: and we're not taking about a major new version where breakage might be expected either
[17:05] <micahg> *talking
[17:05] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, but i thought that bd-do would let me do that instead of crashing
[17:05] <seb128> micahg, right, it's breaking the lo-menubar hacks, still it seems like blocking an important libreoffice update because we have an universe package doing bad hacks is not the way to go
[17:05] <bcurtiswx> well, quitting
[17:06]  * bcurtiswx totally got kenvandine in bzr bd-dodo <drum hit>
[17:06] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, like didrocks warned
[17:06] <kenvandine> :-D
[17:06] <didrocks> bcurtiswx: see my remarks above :)
[17:06] <didrocks> \o/
[17:06] <kenvandine> i guess in this case my way works well :)
[17:06] <bcurtiswx> didrocks, well thats not cool at all
[17:06] <didrocks> what I generally do in that case is a very beautiful thing
[17:06] <didrocks> bzr rm debian/sources
[17:06] <kenvandine> haha
[17:06] <didrocks> bzr bd-do
[17:06] <kenvandine> :-D
[17:06] <didrocks> do the refrsh
[17:06] <didrocks> exit 0
[17:06] <Laney> I usually comment out the patches
[17:06] <didrocks> bzr revert debian/sources
[17:06] <didrocks> :)
[17:06] <Laney> in series
[17:07] <Laney> then uncomment them one at a time
[17:07] <didrocks> Laney: depends, if you have 10 patchins and one deps on the others…
[17:07] <didrocks> and of course, the failing is in the middle :p
[17:07] <didrocks> (happened with Qt \o/)
[17:07] <kenvandine> almost always
[17:07] <Laney> well, you should still be able to comment them all
[17:07] <bcurtiswx> didrocks, thats debian/source without the s right ?
[17:07] <didrocks> right, but bzr rm and bzr revert is 2 commands
[17:07] <didrocks> commenting is more :)
[17:08] <didrocks> bcurtiswx: yeah, without the s, one is enough :)
[17:08] <Laney> :%s/^/#/ :P
[17:08] <didrocks> Laney: well, you want to comment starting from the failing one?
[17:08] <didrocks> Laney: you won't get me to this game! :-)
[17:08] <Laney> depends how much you want to think!
[17:08] <didrocks> (bzr merge-upstream FTW anyway \o/)
[17:08] <didrocks> Laney: think*what*? :)
[17:10] <Laney> heh
[17:10] <Laney> it's probably a valid bzr bd-do bug anyway
[17:11] <didrocks> Laney: well, I spent one hour discussing it
[17:11] <didrocks> Laney: and the opinions are diverging :)
[17:13] <micahg> seb128: AIUI, -updates is 0 regressions and that MREs are granted to upstreams that prove they have policies in place to achieve that
[17:13] <Laney> some people argue that failing in this case is desirable?
[17:13] <micahg> *policies and practices
[17:16] <seb128> micahg, breaking stupid code which makes assumption about your private functions and try to use them in an hackish way doesn't qualify an "upstream regressed in their update"
[17:16] <seb128> micahg, it just proof lo-menubar is a crap piece of code we should drop from the archive
[17:17] <seb128> micahg, it's like if you had code reading some random octet of a binary because you know where they are and having your code break on the next version, you can't blame an upstream because something out there and being stupid and get issues in return...
[17:18] <micahg> seb128: sure, it's not an upstream regression, but an archive regression
[17:18] <micahg> but for us, archive regressions matter as well, even if upstream is doing everything right, at least AIUI the current policy
[17:18] <seb128> micahg, right, but I don't get your point about MREs then, it's not a libreoffice flaw
[17:19] <seb128> micahg, you mentioned that like if it was a fail in libreoffice quality or testing
[17:20] <seb128> micahg, well, we had firefox updates breaking random third party code in the past and we kicked those out
[17:20] <micahg> seb128: well, since we don't know the cause, it might be, and it might not be
[17:20] <seb128> micahg, seems like it's the same situation, we should kick lo-menubar out ... would you feel better if we do an upload turning it into a dummy empty package? would it be good enough to accept the libreoffice upload?
[17:22] <micahg> seb128: I don't know, I'd feel bad about that, removing functionality from some people to get bug fixes for others, but IANA SRU team member
[17:22] <micahg> seb128: anyways, I"m not 100% sure the issue is in lo, just no one seemingly has done the test yet with lo 3.5.3 and 3.5.4 and lo-menubar 0.10 to see if they're the same or not
[17:22] <seb128> micahg, ok, you are not being reasonable there by suggesting that universe's lomenubar is more important that security and data lost bugs in libreoffice for everyone
[17:23] <seb128> micahg, no, several people have been doing tests, none is able to reproduce the issue
[17:23] <seb128> micahg, we can't just block that SRU because somebody out there is having impossible to reproduce issues
[17:24] <micahg> I was able to reproduce with both proposed packages
[17:26] <micahg> seb128: please keep in mind, I have no authority here, I'm just making you aware of the issues as I see them
[17:26] <seb128> micahg, good, so can you tell us if it happens with the proposed libreoffice and the precise lo-menubar and the other way around?
[17:26] <micahg> seb128: yes, I can try to do that tomorrow
[17:26] <seb128> thanks
[17:26] <seb128> note that at the end of the day it's a KDE bug as well though
[17:27] <seb128> whatever stupid thing a menu should be doing it shouldn't take KDE down
[17:27] <seb128> should be->could be
[17:27] <micahg> indeed
[17:37] <micahg> seb128: sorry, ended up conflating some issues E_NOTENOUGHCAFFEINE
[17:38] <seb128> micahg, which ones?
[17:39] <micahg> seb128: about the upstream vs distro testing and what not
[17:39] <seb128> micahg, oh, no worry, I just want to see the details sorted so we can resolve the blockers
[17:39] <seb128> micahg, it's frustrating that nobody is able to say what update between libreoffice and lo-menubar creates the issue
[17:39] <seb128> micahg, or what combinaisons are buggy
[17:39]  * didrocks waves good evening
[17:40] <seb128> didrocks, 'night
[17:40] <micahg> well, I know that 3.5.4/0.11 is, not sure about the other combos
[17:40]  * micahg is surprised he's the only one that can reproduce
[17:40] <seb128> right
[17:41] <seb128> if 3.5.3 and 0.11 have the issue then it's not a libreoffice regression and not worth blocking that SRU
[22:06] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, what's with the 3.7 numbering for gnome-orca?
[22:07] <robert_ancell> are we taking a 3.8 pre-release?
[22:19] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: 3.7.0.x is being used due to Orca master being python3 only now, and GNOME upstrea not accepting the python3 goal for GNOME 3.6, so 3.7 is the target for python 3.
[22:19] <TheMuso> So orca upstrea now releases 3.5.x supporting python 2, and 3.7.0.x supporting python 3.
[22:20] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, so what will be the final release for 3.6? will it still be 3.7.x and they will continue developing 3.7.x until the normal GNOME 3.8 release?
[22:22] <robert_ancell> I think I get it - we delived 3.7.0.x and they release 3.7.1 when the normal GNOME 3.8 cycle starts
[22:22] <TheMuso> Correct.
[23:06] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Are you covering mousetweaks? If not, I'll take care of it.
[23:06] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, nope, I leave those ones for you
[23:06] <TheMuso> Thanks, its just that others have updated it in the past, usually because I forgot a new release was put out. :) just checking to be sure.