[01:55] running quiteb [01:55] late [01:56] may have meeting at 730 instead ;) [01:57] * pleia2 heading home from grocery [01:58] cool, meeting coming up! [02:20] #startmeeting [02:20] Meeting started Mon Jul 16 02:20:49 2012 UTC. The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [02:20] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [02:20] hello california friends :) [02:21] #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/12July15 [02:21] Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/12July15 - Ubuntu Wiki] [02:21] nothing really on our agenda [02:22] #topic Announcements, comments, brainstorming, anything else [02:23] several folks are at OSCON right now [02:23] I know MarkDude and philipballew went up, and bkerensa and the Oregon team are running an Ubuntu booth :) [02:25] I'll be heading up for just the last couple days [02:25] anyone have anything they want to talk about? [02:25] our last SF Ubuntu Hour was pretty lean, just two of us summertime :) [02:26] Hey, everybody, have fun at OSCON! [02:26] thanks akk! [02:26] in early Septmeber we'll be working with BerkeleyLUG and Partimus on the Solano Stroll again http://www.solanoavenueassn.org/strol.htm [02:26] Title: [Solano Stroll street festival & parade |Berkeley & Albany CA] [02:27] Y'know, I haven't heard anything about a Linux Picnic this year. [02:27] eps: it's not happening [02:27] no one reserved the back back in february [02:27] Eek. So, what? At 21, Linux has finally grown up and moved out of its parents basement? [02:28] bummer! [02:28] 21, maybe the picnic is being held in an undisclosed bar :) [02:28] If MarkDude were here, we could probably put together a Geeknic for the date the Linux Picnic would have landed on. [02:29] Alison Chaiken expressed interest in trying to help make it happen next year, so I might throw my hat in for that too [02:30] maybe we can see about roping him in for a geeknic in late august :) [02:30] anyone have any other thoughts? [02:31] Mt. View Ubuntu Hour is on Thursday, I think. [02:32] ah yes, 3rd thursday :) [02:32] not in the loco team portal yet, but jtatum usually sends out a mail too [02:35] ok, I guess we can wrap things up yet [02:35] * eps wants to gripe about the sad state of nVidia proprietary drivers [02:36] #endmeeting [02:36] Meeting ended Mon Jul 16 02:36:43 2012 UTC. [02:36] Minutes: http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2012/ubuntu-us-ca.2012-07-16-02.20.moin.txt [02:36] ok, onward with the griping! [02:37] I don't even know if I'm using my nvidia card on my firewall anymore, I kept switching between it and the intel onboard as one sucked and another worked [02:37] 12.04 "upgraded" to xorg 1.11, but nVidia didn't catch up until about two months later [02:37] (I only use the graphics for basic stuff) [02:37] ah, fun :\ [02:38] I'm sticking to intel lately, though they're making it hard since they're also making chips that have no linux driver. [02:38] The usual strategy of backporting fixes doesn't work in cases like this. [02:38] nVidia's current releases are listed here: http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html [02:38] Title: [Unix Drivers Portal Page] [02:40] my current desktop has some cheap ATI card [02:40] like $20 from newegg [02:40] nvidia-current in precise _should_ be updated to 295.95, which is the *supported* Long Lived Branch [02:40] Instead, it's stuck at 295.40. So precise users aren't getting any of the bug fixes. [02:40] Dang, I just missed the meeting... [02:41] Hey everyone... I have a bit of an annoucement that I'll be sending to the ML too. [02:41] The Legacy driver for next-most-recent nVidia cards didn't work at all when precise shipped. [02:41] I'll be stepping down from the leadership position within the Loco. [02:42] In a couple weeks I'll be moving to Indiana. [02:42] 173.14.35 is current -- and is used for nvidia-173 in quantal [02:43] But precise is stuck at 173.14.30, again depriving users of the vendor's fixes [02:43] install the vesa, purge nvidia, install nvidia and purge vesa [02:45] The standard repositories *should* have the supported drivers; you don't want to be told "I'm sorry, we fixed that already." [02:45] This gives Ubuntu a bad reputation, and that for us is a marketing problem. [02:45] You would think... This has been an issue with repositories in ubuntu for a while. [02:45] nouveau is *not* an acceptable alternative to the proprietary drivers. [02:46] Not even close. [02:46] There are packages that track upstreams, e.g. Firefox. [02:46] this is why I'm happy that my laptop has intel [02:46] nVidia needs to rise to that level. [02:47] yes, but an app is different than something that is moduled into the kernel [02:48] So what? If you're using proprietary drivers, you have to trust your upstream. [02:48] It isn't possible to backport fixes. [02:49] You can't ask mainstream users to compile from source, nor point them at PPAs. [02:49] I agree 110% this is why a rolling release IMO would be better in the long run. [02:50] I appreciate what Intel does, but it's not reasonable to tell people "you must buy Intel or you aren't welcome at our table." [02:51] There are basically only three choices. My experience has been that Intel and nVidia both make products that work. ATI, not so much. [02:51] Yeah, I like what nVidia does is highend but, I perfer intel [02:52] I also understand there's pushback from the Stallmanists. [02:53] Hardwarewise, I prefer nVidia. I would like to be able to choose Ubuntu, but Ubuntu doesn't seem to want to play nicely with others. [02:53] The problem is simple, people are not used to building for the "just users" people [02:53] Like, the ones who do nothing else other than use it. [02:54] Ubuntu is positioned as an end user product. [02:54] Untill we start building our mindsets directed toward them... We will have these issues. [02:54] Yes and no. [02:54] We are far along with it but, there is still the "give back" mindset [02:55] ** "must give back" [02:55] No, we have to be pragmatic here. [02:56] If I wanted to be straightjacketed, I'd stick with Apple hardware. [02:57] I'm not saying that... But, there is an expectation that isn't as good. [02:58] What's next? Treat AMD CPUs as second-class citizens? We wouldn't do that. [03:00] nVidia's products are widely adopted. If this were something unusual, then you could make the argument that it's too much trouble. [03:02] I don't want to get into a Coke vs. Pepsi argument. That's for end users to decide for themselves. [03:03] Ubuntu has enough detractors as it is; they don't need to be given any more ammunition. [03:05] The bottom line is, we should be building updated packages, testing them, and if they pass muster, those should be going into -updates. [03:06] I can't think of anything else to add. [03:07] :D [03:08] I'm with ya [03:13] Maybe you can help revitalize the Indiana Loco? [03:20] * pleia2 searches for a portland hotel room [03:21] www.travelportland.com [03:21] yeah, already used that ;) [03:22] ones exist, just trying to fine one that's not awful or too painfully far [03:25] Public transit is free in downtown Portland. The MAX doesn't suck. www.trimet.org [03:26] pleia2: ;) I have something for you from Jono when you arrive [03:27] bkerensa: ah, the suspense! :) [03:28] have fun tomorrow, good luck with the booth! [03:28] whens the meeting? [03:28] scientes: we already had the meeting [03:28] oh damn i missed it again [03:29] eps, re: nvidia-current, i even moved to 302 or what-not, and my card was still totally broken, it broke a month before precise release [03:29] so i just use nouveau which blows on this card [03:30] Unfortunately, nVidia's forums are down at the moment. [03:40] eps: Yeah, I've already been in contact with the co-founders. They are looking forward to turning it over to someone. [03:41] philipballew_: sup [03:43] pleia2: have you not found one yet? [03:43] a hotel? [03:44] bkerensa: I didn't try very hard :) now looking [03:44] kk [05:01] there, rooms [05:02] staying near the airport first night, and a hotel downtown for thurs and fri [05:13] pleia2: you come in Wednesday right? [05:15] bkerensa: wednesday night, so I won't really be around until Thursday morning [05:16] (I have work Mon-Wed) [05:16] pleia2: Ping me if you need any directions or such [05:16] MAX is much easier than BART :P [05:16] and safer [05:17] thanks :) [05:17] Cabs are usually very expensive [05:18] koolhead17 paid $30 to go a couple blocks [05:18] :P [05:18] I actually have to get to another hotel thursday morning before the conference, so I might just cab it from one hotel to another since I'll have luggage :\ [05:18] Try to get RadioCab [05:18] ok [05:18] not Broadway Cab ever.... they have non-english speaking somali drivers mostly who will take you on a ride [05:18] =/ [05:18] so that's the one koolhead17 took? :) [05:19] I think he just took a flat rate one [05:19] ah [05:19] They have some that are flat rate to downtown [05:22] a cabby in NYC took me for a ride once (during HOPE actually), but I was only out $20 so it wasn't a huge deal coming from Philly where that would have been normal [05:22] I didn't realize until later that I had overpaid [05:23] heh... I'm local and a Broadway cab took me and my fiancee a city in the wrong direction when we asked to simply go to our local mall... We asked several times for him to pull over so we could call another cab [05:23] in the end it cost us $40+ more [05:23] yuck :( [05:24] We switched to Radio Cab after that since they only seem to have english speaking drivers but now we zipcar :) [05:24] zipcar++ [06:00] philipballew__: I am loling at your tweets (oh my gosh, where are you staying?!) [06:02] in the getho here at a comfort inn. I was offered weed like 5 times in the block from the light rail to the hotel [06:02] its like 4 miles from the convention center [06:03] I really have nothing going on till wednesday so I have just been roaming around Portland but now I came back here and its kinda different then Auburn... [06:03] yeah Mark picked a bad motel [06:03] :P [06:03] anything East of 82nd Avenue is not good for living [06:04] I told a person on the bus its where I was getting off at, and she looked twice at me, then asked why. [06:05] oh my :) [06:05] but they have free breakfast! [06:05] philipballew_: yeah I told Mark and the Fedora folks but Noooo they didnt want any help from a Local :P [06:05] Totally gonna get some breakfast tomorrow :) [06:06] philipballew_: where? [06:06] :P [06:06] oh at motel? [06:06] :d [06:06] the comfort inn [06:06] Its free :) [06:06] likely continental [06:06] so Donuts and OJ [06:06] ;p [06:06] youd think rh would put them up downtown [06:06] nah [06:07] its pretty packed till like Thurs and Friday [06:07] all the hotels next to OCC are sold out completely right now [06:07] hum, well the econo lodge of mlk has room [06:07] which is better [06:08] better than Koolhead17's econo lodge :P [06:08] yeah, im not sure what is better [06:08] that had a jack in the box next to it [06:09] and since the beef is not real beef, he was able to have some [06:09] http://goo.gl/maps/diwM [06:09] [R: maps.google.com] Title: [Portland Gang Territory - Google Maps] [06:09] :D [06:09] bkerensa, don't worry, Im an og [06:09] philipballew_: not real? [06:10] philipballew_: yeaaaaah.... I'm not going walking in bad neighborhoods with you again :P [06:10] * bkerensa remembers you throwing up gang signs to a car full of African Americans :P [06:10] really, it took me like 1.5 hours to get my hotel situation sorted this late, I got the *last* room in the Sheraton by the airport for wed night [06:10] (and only via hotels.com, their own website was sold out) [06:10] pleia2: its not bad at all [06:11] bkerensa, I gotta represent my crew [06:12] * bkerensa is getting breakfast at OSCON I think [06:13] bkerensa: yeah, I think I did fine hotel wise [06:13] what is the food situation at oscon? [06:13] uhh [06:13] I actually looked on the site earlier, but it was unclear :) [06:13] bkerensa, I have pizza for lunch if anyone needs any [06:13] pleia2: so do you have a pass? and what kind? [06:13] You are registered for 3-Day Pass (Wed-Fri). [06:13] ahh [06:14] * Lunch (Wed-Thu) [06:14] so you should be able to get lunch those days [06:14] ah [06:14] yeah [06:14] and also all parties have food [06:14] * pleia2 nods [06:14] so that covers dinner... at least for me it does generally [06:14] Speakers get a lounge that has cold beverages and food all day plus breakfast :) [06:14] I'm more worried about logistics than cost (I should find my own breakfast) [06:15] pleia2: so there are a lot of options within walking distance of the OCC [06:15] that's good :) [06:16] Burgerville makes pretty decent breakfast and uses all local meat, eggs, cheese, veggies [06:16] :D [06:16] cool [06:16] so philipballew_ you know the room that they do CLS in? [06:18] pleia2: are u going to the zoo while here? [06:18] bkerensa: maybe :) [06:18] i think this whole city is a zoo [06:18] lol [06:18] philipballew_: you should go ZooBombing [06:18] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoobomb [06:18] Title: [Zoobomb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia] [06:18] ;p [06:18] not actually sure what I'm doing with the friends on Saturday, zoo would be good [06:18] philipballew__: hahah [06:19] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVmq9dq6Nsg [06:19] Title: [Dream of the 90s - Portlandia on IFC - YouTube] [06:19] ^ pleia2 you see that ever? [06:20] nope [06:20] lol [06:20] i prefer the dream of the suburbs is alive in Vancouver myself. [06:21] philipballew_: =/ The Couv is horrible.... I only go up there to grocery shop [06:21] ;p [06:22] I was in that area today, Its has nice people [06:22] portlandia is nice though [06:22] PUT A BIRD ON IT! [06:23] Go by street car [06:23] Keep portland weird [06:23] RCTID [06:24] street car? [06:24] philipballew_: its a local saying... "Go by street car" [06:25] philipballew_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzkEwPZWALA [06:25] Title: [Best Marriage Proposal EVER. -Portland Oregon (High Quality) - YouTube] [06:25] seems nice [06:26] I dont drive first [06:26] in fact, when I drove all those people home this morning, that was the first in several weeks [06:26] I should drive mo often [06:27] philipballew_: you drove Mark and his Entourage home? [06:27] yeah, I was the dd [06:28] mark was off with someone but I drove everyone else [06:28] Im pretty sure they have no idea though [06:28] lol [06:28] as they probably were not aware if what was going on [07:02] ohhh I found a sloppy bug :D [19:09] hey guys, how do you install wordpress in ubuntu? [19:11] I've never done it, but I would guess: sudo apt-get install wordpress [19:11] There is a package for it. [19:11] ok [19:11] i downloaded the .tar.gz package [19:11] is there a way to install from the desktop? [19:12] if you download the tarball just follow the directions at http://codex.wordpress.org/Installing_WordPress [19:12] Title: [Installing WordPress « WordPress Codex] [19:12] (I don't use the package because I like running the latest version, the package in Ubuntu is an older version + security patches) [19:13] But if you're unfamiliar with tar and installing tarballs, you might have better luck by sticking with the Ubuntu package. [19:13] true. [19:13] yeah, just read the docs in /usr/share/doc/wordpress/ to properly set it up in Ubuntu [19:13] Ubuntu packages take care of dependencies and often handle minor installation details for you. [19:14] (on the downside, they're not quite as current, so if you need something cutting edge in the absolute latest WP builds, you might need tha tarball.) [19:15] I took akk's suggestion and installed wordpress. If I install the tarball now, will it update the installed package? [19:15] No. [19:16] It'll most likely install a second completely different version in a different place. [19:16] XD [19:16] And maybe set things up so that both of them are running at startup. [19:16] i'm gonna give the tarball a go. How do I uninstall? [19:16] apt-get purge wordpress [19:16] add a sudo in front of that [19:17] for the tar command, tar -xzvf, what does the x, z, v, and f stand for? [19:17] just curious. [19:18] oh wait! [19:18] I'll use the man. [19:18] \o/ [19:18] man pages can be hard to parse, but when it comes to looking up what flags mean - yes, you should use the man page :) [19:19] And reading man pages is a good skill to learn. [19:24] I hear that there are two ways to host a website: either having your own server or using a hosting provider. What's the benefit of either? [19:25] Having your own server: you have control over everything. Using someone else's server: it's not your fault when it breaks (or your job to fix it). [19:25] guess there's a lot of manual work in owning a server. [19:26] It's not that different from the work in a desktop -- either way you have to keep it updated and fix things that break. [19:26] It's just a little more stressful with a server, because it HAS to have security updates, and if it breaks, no one can see your website until you fix it. [19:26] (or you can't read your mail until you fix it, if it's a mail problem) [19:27] I kept my website on a home server for years, but finally moved it to a hosting place because our DSL would go down when we were traveling [19:27] there are also levels of "hosting provider" - you can get everything from a completely unmanaged server that someone else just physicaly runs (as a physical or virtual machine) where you get root, to a simple web-hosting account where all you get is a wordpress admin login [19:27] and there's no way to fix that, so it was stress and depression on trips until we could get home and power-cycle the modem or call AT&T or whatever. [19:29] * epikvision sees [19:30] epikvision: If your goal is to learn and play around with server stuff, running your own server is probably the way to go. [19:30] O.O and buying the server itself? [19:30] It would be an interesting experience. [19:30] If your goal is to get a real website up that users will be using regularly, then it's worth considering both options. [19:31] Buying? A server is just a computer -- you can use your desktop, or an old machine you've retired, or whatever. [19:31] It's not like you need some special super breed of computer to be a server. [19:32] Our home server right now is an old netbook we got on ebay for $200 or so ... before that it was a 6-year-old low-power Via board with no case. [19:32] Here's the old Via machine (though it's no longer serving that domain): http://timocharis.com/doodles/server/index.html [19:32] Title: [The Physical Reality Of Timocharis.com] [19:33] aww :) [19:33] "my server hangs on my wall" [19:33] I was a little sad to give up the "secure server" [19:33] but the netbook is a lot faster and a little more power efficient. [19:34] (We're nuts about power efficiency -- heck, the new machine is probably saving us 7 cents or so per month!!) [19:34] hehe [19:34] (obviously it's not about the cost) [19:35] akk, i use a sheevaplug as email server [19:35] I keep browsing ARM boards for a low-power option to put in my fiance's colo space, he's got tons of bandwidth but just a little power...most of which is being used up by his giant 1U Xeon server [19:36] so I can have space, if I use hardly any power :) [19:36] ahh yeah, get something omap w/ sata [19:36] or rather marvell w/ sata, like armada chipset [19:38] We have a couple of plug computers (Marvell/arm) but don't run any servers off them. They can be kind of a pain to deal with. [19:38] well the armv7 ones are much faster [19:38] My last job was at a company that used those, but not as public-facing web servers. [19:38] and sata is also neccicary [19:40] pleia2, you use powertop on the server? [19:42] scientes: I'm not sure if he does [19:43] it tells you what processes are waking up the kernel and costing power [19:44] yeah, I've used it before :) [19:45] (mostly on laptops though, until now I haven't worried much about server power consumption since at work we don't have a limit) [19:46] you get a little more info on laptops, through acpi, about current power consumption, that you dont get on most desktops [19:46] * pleia2 nods [19:50] Thanks for the reminder, I'd been meaning to do some powertop runs on the new netbook. Ubuntu seems to be getting rather poor battery life there. [19:57] Actually the new powertop in pangolin is a lot harder to read, and no longer gives helpful suggestions. :( [19:58] But there seems to be a big problem with the audio codec hwC0D0, whatever that means. [20:03] 7.4W in squeeze, 8.89W in pangolin and toggling the "bad" tuneables doesn't seem to make any difference. [20:08] ouch ruby 1.8 is eating my battery [20:08] anyone know if there is a fix for cruby 1.8? [20:08] **power [20:08] no battery [20:10] It must be ruby running some program - ruby is just a language. [20:10] akk, no i looked it up, the interpreter pool for it implamentation of green threads [20:11] I have no ruby running at all. [20:11] yeah this is a server serving up rails [20:11] ah [20:11] i absolutely need ruby 1.8 [20:12] yes, that does kind of need ruby :) [20:12] well ruby1.9 is probably good [20:12] but i need ruby 1.8, cause its legaly rails 2.3 [20:12] *legacy [20:14] ruby/rails versions used to be a big headache ... not sure if they still are. [20:14] I remember on ubuntu I used to have to install nearly everything from source, because rails needed gems that ubuntu and debian didn't package. [20:15] (and people who asked for them to be packaged got rudely insulted in the bug system) [20:24] akk, that pretty much how the ruby world works [20:24] even python is generally run that way with virtualenv [20:40] * akk gives up and goes back to squeeze, pangolin's powertop isn't giving any helpful suggestions about why pangolin eats so much power [21:11] akk, powertop 2 is in unstable, and i managed to compile from source on centos 6.2 [21:13] Will powertop 2 bring back some of the things the old powertop used to have? [21:14] I'm finding this 1.97 a lot less useful than the old one. [21:14] It has all these screens, but none of them give the info that the single screen used to. [21:22] idk i never used the old one [21:25] the new one segfaults on start on arm [21:25] unlike the old one [21:25] there is a patch on the bts [21:26] pleia2: you around? [21:33] any developers around? [21:33] 'cuz I need help trying to fix my first bug. [21:35] so you need more specifically developers skilled in the spay/neuter of insects, then [21:35] haha, yes [21:36] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/1022935 [21:36] Title: [Bug #1022935 “libpurple0 package description typo” : Bugs : “pidgin” package : Ubuntu] [21:51] epikvision, make it just suggest tcl and tk