penguin42ali1234: That depends if you cast in the right way00:01
penguin42ali1234: If the linklist always uses the baseclass, and it has a virtual destructor, and you only ever cast to children of the baseclass then all should be good00:04
=== PaulW2U_ is now known as G4MBY
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest86011
* Azelphur does the happy dance01:05
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest97044
Azelphurdoes anyone know if there's a "all in one" Ubuntu installer that lets you select which DE you want on install?02:05
Azelphurso you can have one image that you can choose between unity, xfce, lxde for example02:05
=== diddledan is now known as zz_diddledan
=== zz_diddledan is now known as diddledan
Azelphurali1234: rofl, pirate (the owner of BS&T) just stabilised the bitcoin economy02:51
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest2075
MartijnVdSAzelphur: THIS .. IS .. BITCOIN !!!06:05
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
=== KillerJim|Away is now known as KillerJim
christelgood morning lovelies07:32
diploMorning all07:40
czajkowskihow's everyone?07:58
christelAMAZING! \o/08:00
* christel does a dance with czajkowski 08:00
daubersczajkowski: not dead08:01
DJonesMorning all08:11
christelhello DJones :)08:12
christelawww you have the cutest nick, ever08:15
czajkowskidaubers: always good08:19
christeli am off to leeds to relive my student days for a few days at the end of august08:20
christelthis will either go DREADFULLY wrong or result in alcohol poisoning!08:21
christelactually, it will simply go dreadfully wrong :)08:21
* daubers gets the python beating stick out08:23
JamesTaitGood morning all! :)08:37
christelmorning JamesTait :)08:37
JamesTaitHi christel, how are you today?08:38
christeli am wonderful! yourself? :)08:38
JamesTaitGlad to be back at work after a long weekend, might stand a chance of relaxing now. ;)08:38
JamesTaitBetter make the most of the potential opportunity, with the school summer holidays less than a week away!08:39
christelhow many small energetic people will you have running rings around you? :)08:40
* oimon wonders what's going on with the gnome-screensaver multi-monitor bug - must affect a lot of people, been going on for years08:41
lubotu3Gnome bug 662757 in general "Gnome-Shell lock screen does not always display password prompt" [Normal,Needinfo]08:42
popeythat looks like the same issue I get in unity08:45
popeyand nvidia08:46
popeyi think there's a problem that the card isn't being reset when coming out of suspend or when locking / unlocking08:46
oimonit happens after the monitor blanks08:47
diploI never used screen savers08:47
oimonit's reproducable08:47
oimonscreen lock is important in open plan office08:47
diplobut i do let it go blank and don't have issues08:47
diploah, that happens in unity full i think but not 2d08:47
oimoni would switch to xcreensaver but i can't invoke it with the gui or ctrl-alt-L08:48
=== chalced is now known as chalcedony
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
popeymy desktop net card has stopped functioning09:15
SuperMattyou wanna get that working again before steam for linux is released09:21
SuperMattpretty stoked that they chose ubuntu, but I'm not surprised in the slightest09:22
=== popey_ is now known as popey
brobostigongood morning everyone.09:26
diplomorning brobostigon09:26
brobostigonmorning SuperMatt and diplo09:26
SuperMattwhat's the buzz?09:27
=== mrevell_ is now known as mrevell
SuperMattThe only buzz I have right now is from this morning's awesome steam news09:27
Laneynot google buzz? :(09:29
gordi still don't understand what google buzz is09:30
gordor what google wave is09:30
* AlanBell doesn't understand what steam is09:30
oimonwater in gaseous state09:31
popeyitunes for games09:31
gordsteam is a way for linux users to pay valve to get at games already available on linux ;)09:31
diploI tried both gord and I tend to agree09:31
AlanBellwell I understand the phase change process of dihydrogen monoxide fairly well09:31
daubersAlanBell: It's like a shop for games, it also does DRMy type things09:31
oimonubuntu software center combined with u1 for games, although it saves your game saves too09:32
diploI liked some of the 'tech' in them though, just not how it was presented maybe09:32
AlanBellso it is like ubuntu software centre but only for pay-for closed games?09:32
oimonthey have sales too, and the games can get v cheap09:32
daubersAlanBell: A bit, but it also has built in community chat/forum type things09:33
diploI've bought quite a few games on the cheap now09:33
diploWas playing Far Cry 2 last night, cost me 2-3 quid i think09:33
oimoni started playing il2 over the weekend , connected my ps2 controller to it09:33
Laneyporting of the games is more interesting imho09:33
oimongot that from gog.com though09:33
diploOh I forgot about that oimon, will try and remember to install that tonight09:34
oimontook me half an hour to perform take off09:34
oimoncan anyone recommend a cheap wireless adapter for an oldish desktop pc?09:36
oimonmy brothers PC running XP - edimax OK?09:37
dogmatic69There goes the "you cant game on linux" argument... http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/valve-announces-ubuntu-port-of-steam-source-engine-and-left-4-dead-2/09:37
AlanBellnever really had that argument myself, not after tuxracer was released09:37
SuperMattI am really looking forward to being able to play good games on a good OS09:38
dogmatic69minecraft works, that is all.09:38
directhexminecraft isn't a game, it's a toy09:38
directhexin a good way09:39
directhexin the way lego isn't a game, it's a toy09:39
dogmatic69lego is like the foundation of childhood.09:39
AlanBellI am looking forward to ali1234's game, that looks great09:39
oimonbetter than numpty physics?09:40
SuperMattI just don't understand the attraction to minecraft09:41
oimonseen this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electronic-Starter-Kit-Raspberry-Pi/dp/B0082LD2B8/ref=pd_sim_computers_109:42
popeyoimon, i have that kit09:42
directhexAlanBell, the thing about steam is it's the windows of games - i.e. 90-95% of a game's sales these days come from steam, not from other download stores. availability of steam on linux doesn't automatically mean all the games, but it *does* mean developers already working with valve have a new market with easy distribution mechanisms they're familiar with09:43
AlanBelldogmatic69: http://youtube.com/user/ali12349209:43
SuperMattand the humble bundle has proved that linux users are willing to pay money for good games.09:43
directhexAlanBell, and note that when mac support was added to steam, any mac port was given to owners of the windows version - i.e. no separate mac versions need to be bought. linux would be the same, i.e. developers would just add a linux port to their game's manifest, for linux users09:44
directhexSuperMatt, oh indeed, that's been vital09:44
SuperMattgotta hand it to the humble guys09:44
directhexand somehow, ubuntu became the only distro that matters - both steam and unity3d are only targeting ubuntu, with other distros as "good luck with that"09:44
dogmatic69AlanBell: damn, that looks very good09:44
AlanBelldirecthex: that is nice, so people are not tied to a platform due to sunk costs in proprietary stuff they like09:44
SuperMatthttp://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2012-06/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm <- it's fairly obvious why ubuntu is the distro of choice09:45
popeyAlanBell, thats precisely the problem with the neckbeards... "Hey, just play tuxracer"09:45
directhexAlanBell, precisely09:45
directhexpopey, also precisely09:45
popeyand "I dont see the problem"09:45
SuperMattdirecthex: ubuntu won't be the only supported distro, they're just developing with ubuntu in mind09:45
popeyI could say the same about a11y09:45
AlanBellpopey: I was joking, but I really don't play games at all09:46
directhexAlanBell, if you check store.steampowered.com you'll see games have a little windows logo, or windows+mac. they'll just add a third icon09:46
popeywonder if it'll be an ubuntu logo or a penguin ;)09:46
SuperMattpopey: I agree with you there. It seems the belief in the linux communities is that if the devs aren't affected, it shouldn't bother users09:46
christelan ubuntu coloured penguin.09:48
AlanBellI know games are things people do on computers, just not my use-case for them09:48
SuperMattI think I would like to see linux move away from the penguin09:48
diploReally, I really like it :) the different variations etc09:49
SuperMattlinux is about power and stability and openess, but I don't think a penguin represents that09:49
Laneya warship?09:49
AlanBellit is a perfectly find logo for a kernel09:49
SuperMattfor a kernal, yes, but I'm not so sure about the gnu/linux ecosystem09:50
AlanBelland it is somewhere inside android, hiding behind the droid thing09:50
AlanBellthere isn't a linux ecosystem09:51
SuperMattyeah, I know09:51
SuperMattbut it would be nice to unite under one logo, one that isn't a penguin!09:52
AlanBellthere is an android ecosystem, and arguably a debian/ubuntu and a redhat ecosystem09:52
Laneywhat's an ecosystem?09:53
AlanBellthe linux ecosystem if there is one is the linaro stuff09:53
popeyare you trolling?09:54
SuperMattwho is that directed at?09:54
AlanBellheh, wasn't really meaning to troll ;)09:54
christelAlanBell always trolls :(09:54
davmor2Morning all09:58
czajkowskidavmor2: prod09:59
davmor2czajkowski: Prod Morning09:59
directhexfwiw. we're missing the most fundamental question of what steam for linux means10:26
davmor2You gotta love Boris http://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2012-07-16/boris-johnson-talks-about-the-olympic-athletes-who-got-lost-this-morning/10:28
diplodirecthex: "Is this the year for linux on the desktop?"10:29
directhexdiplo, "what special commemorative hat will be added to tf2 to mark the occasion"10:30
davmor2diplo: every year someone asks that it obviously isn't :P10:30
diploI got bored with that a few years ago davmor210:30
davmor2on a plus side Samsung is now out selling iphones10:31
diploI've got TF2 directhex and played it for maybe an hour10:31
diploReally must play it again at some point10:31
diploheh saw that earlier, would like a decent phone10:31
directhexthe cellphone market gives me a creeping feeling of malaise10:32
* diplo just had to google malaise10:33
diploI am normally quite good with words, but failed today10:34
directhexcompetition isn't thriving in the right ways, and free software seems to be decreasing, not increasing10:36
diplohmm mixed emotions.10:43
directhexwebos is dead with no real chance of reprieve. so is meego. tizen is DOA. RIM will be bankrupt within a couple of years. microsoft have infinite money to back WP7/8, but will anyone buy it? which leaves iOS, and variously horrible levels of android10:45
diploWhats your thoughts on B2G ?10:46
diploFailure before it starts ?10:46
diploHad a quick look and play and quite like the idea, not sure if they can execute it correctly10:47
AlanBellI like the idea and I had a little play with an S2 running it10:47
popeygolly, lots of games I don't own in the "under 4 quid" category on steam10:47
directhexdiplo, B2G is irrelevant as long as samsung can ship android phones for £4010:47
diploI was never a gfreat fan of RIM, didn't have the chance to play with WebOS at all.10:47
diploI guess so directhex10:47
diploAlanBell: B2G ?10:47
directhexwe don't live in a world of products, we live in a world of ecosystems10:48
directhexit doesn't matter whether your phone is awesome, it matters if apps are available10:48
AlanBelldiplo: yes, boot to gecko, had a play with one at the mozspace in London10:48
diploI tend to agree with you10:48
AlanBellI would be more likely to write stuff for B2G than anything else really10:48
diploSeem to work well/quickly, I do like the idea of it10:48
diploSame here, had a quick go at Android apps but not really my thing10:49
directhexas with so many companies, RIM ran on hubris for too long... about 2 years too long by my calculations. if they had dropped everything and worked on BBX two years earlier, they might have a future10:49
AlanBellbut I wouldn't be writing stuff that mass market people want to run10:49
popeybilmey, crysis is 2.99 on steam10:49
directhexAlanBell, with all due respect, you're a statistical irrelevance - and so am i10:49
directhexpopey, it's as if you haven't been reading my steam sale tweets10:50
AlanBelldirecthex: yes, that was my point, I don't matter much10:50
popeyi rarely look at twitter10:50
directhexpopey, you missed civ5 for £5, and fallout new vegas for £3.7510:50
directhexand deus ex 3 for £510:50
directhexand portal 2 for £3.7510:51
popeyalready have p210:51
diploI don't10:51
directhexpopey, but co-op! buy it for a loved one!10:51
diploForgot to open twitter :/10:51
directhexmetro 2033 is good for £3.75. old-school linear FPS with some sneaking thrown in10:52
diploWould have bought Fallout/Deus and portal10:53
directhexKOTOR is good stuff from bioware, think of it as a spiritual predecessor to mass effect10:53
directhexthree new sales at 4pm.10:55
directhexeleven new sales including an indie bundle at 6pm.10:55
* diplo opens hotot10:55
directhexno changes between now & then.10:55
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest31528
DJonesDamm, Desire HD isn't getting the ICS update11:28
oimonmy wife's htc desire has gone black lines over the screen11:38
oimonshould i replace the screen ? or more than that?11:38
oimonit receives calls11:38
davmor2DJones: CM11:43
DJonesdavmor2: Possibly, may try it in a few months when I upgrade anyway11:44
davmor2DJones: I did on my milestone it's like a new phone :)11:45
dogmatic69any freelance / contract mysql dba's around?13:30
dogmatic69Might have some work available13:30
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest27889
chrisd23anyone there?13:55
chrisd23need some help somebody13:57
DJoneschrisd23: Ask your question, if anybody is around that knows, I'm sure they'll help14:02
chrisd23Sure! I updated my pc to 12.04 and after reboot, soon after ubuntu logo appears my screen goes black and a message pops up "out of range 74.9 kHz / 60 Hz" All I can do is work in the terminal (Ctrl + Alt + F1) and everything I find on the internet either fails or I encounter permission issues. No way to get to the GUI (I even tried another monitor, still nothing), so anything has to be done through terminal, but it gives me heada14:15
AlanBellchrisd23: is it a particularly unusual monitor or graphics card?14:34
oimonargh thought i'd try firefox again but it's been freezing on me :(14:36
diploI've been trying Opera the last few days oimon, pleasantly suprised14:41
popeydirecthex, http://www.gamertogamedeveloper.com/gtgd-series-114:46
popeyseen anything else like that for monogame / Unity3d?14:47
directhexpopey, that *is* unity3d. in 4.0, you just need to click the "make linux binary" button, the rest of the video applies14:48
popeysorry, I mean "any more" not "alternatives"14:48
directhexnothing so detailed, that really looks like a great tutorial series14:49
diploThat does look good, looks like it would have taken a long time14:54
=== duncan is now known as Guest21138
directhex3 new sales are up15:13
directhexnon-lego-based batman games; double fine games; sniper elite15:13
directhexbatman is good, double fine is great. skip sniper elite15:14
directhexyou may already own psychonauts from HIB515:14
diplolooking now :)15:17
diploDo you own all these games directhex ?15:17
diploSays the specified profile can't be found :/15:18
diploCan't find me either15:19
diploThe specified profile could not be found. Please enter your SteamID into the text field below.15:19
diploah it's a number15:19
=== diddledan is now known as zz_diddledan
directhexFound 291 Games with a value of15:20
directhex£2723.26 GBP15:20
directhexnote: steamcalculator a) assumes all games are full price, and b) lies in cases where games are only available as part of a bundle, e.g. counterstrike condition zero deleted scenes, or dungeon siege 215:22
chrisd23AlanBell My monitor is an LG Flatron l204ws (usual computer lcd I guess) and my graphics card is a ATI Radeon HD 2000 Series (I think 2400)15:27
directhexchrisd23, connected via VGA?15:42
dogmatic69how can I use a host name in smbmount?15:45
dogmatic69I tried adding the host in .ssh/config but that does not seem to work15:46
dogmatic69smbmount //the_host/foobar complains about not knowing the host15:46
diploadd to /etc/hosts15:46
dogmatic69eh, I thought that but then I have to manage it in two places15:46
diploSort dns to resolve it proplery is the only other answer, from memory you run your own dns server ?15:48
dogmatic69ye, I just thought I will add it to the reverse proxy and use the_host.dev15:49
dogmatic69correct about the DNS15:49
directhexthere are two options15:49
directhexone is WINS, which is great when it works, and floods your system with crash logs when it doesn't15:49
directhexfor this, install the winbind package and add "wins" to the dns line in /etc/nsswitch.conf15:50
directhexthe other is mDNS - you can refer to machinename.local as long as machinename has an mDNS autoresponder installed - linux and mac do by default, windows you need to install one (e.g. "bonjour print services" from apple)15:51
dogmatic69its all linux, just using smb because nfs is crap15:51
directhexso can you ping machinename.local ?15:52
directhex(avahi-daemon package)15:52
dogmatic69as it is now, I cant ping15:53
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest20902
chrisd23directhex Yes15:53
directhexdogmatic69, is avahi-daemon installed on every host you want to contact via mdns?15:53
dogmatic69oh, I am just using bind915:55
dogmatic69not the mDNS15:55
directhexif you're using bind9 then you configure your zone files by hand, and don't use mdns15:56
MartijnVdSmmmm, dns15:56
AlanBellany thoughts on create an inexpensive DIY greenscreen (or other colour that openshot will do chromakey on) that won't get me shouted at?15:56
dogmatic69AlanBell: did you figure out your db?15:57
AlanBelldogmatic69: most of it with some help in #mysql, there was a join between a varchar and an int which stopped the indexing doing anything15:57
AlanBellthe varchar column is now an int and it went from 7 seconds to 0.2 seconds for that query15:58
dogmatic69they can be pretty good in #mysql, I learnt most of my indexing skills there15:58
dogmatic69I must remember that as I use some varchar <-> int joins too15:58
dogmatic69half transition from int ids to uuids15:59
AlanBellyeah, I think I understand it a bit better now, I was being thrown off because I thought I was doing the right thing, but it wasn't working15:59
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
jacobw\o/ internet in my flat16:15
AzelphurMartijnVdS: indeed, looks like it's just going back up again anyway16:25
Azelphurnobody can stop the bitcoins, even a bank16:26
jacobws/a bank/the banks16:32
Azelphurjacobw: nah this was a bank16:32
Azelphur"Price going too high for my liking, lets sell ~$225,000 worth of bitcoins"16:32
jacobwa bank selling currency shouldn't cause a problem16:39
directhexjacobw, it is on a tiny economy16:51
directhexjacobw, currency works on a buy/sell offers system. if someone dumps a large amount of currency, then first the £x trades go, then the £0.98x, etc, until the "value" of the currency is around £0.01x16:52
directhexthis has happened before with bitcoin16:52
directhexbig sell-off collapses the trades market16:52
jacobwi thought bitcoin was larger than that now16:53
ali1234pirate isn't a bank anyway, it's a ponzi scheme and he just cashed out16:54
=== KillerJim is now known as KillerJim|Away
directhexI mean this honestly when I say it: Duke Nukem Forever is a great use of £3.74. GTA Complete is £5 again.17:13
jacobwgta3 ftw17:16
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=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
directhexone sale update at 10pm, two at midnight17:38
davmor2you know robotics are run by geeks look how they dance http://www.videobash.com/video_show/evolution-of-dance-by-nao-robot-32374318:03
ali1234look at the wobbling18:04
ali1234servos have no built in damping18:04
ali1234i want to see one of those robots do a sprint, then i'll be impressed18:05
ali1234they've been dancing like that for years18:05
ali1234it's easy, and about all they can do18:05
davmor2ali1234: oh you mean like aismo does18:05
ali1234hahahaha no18:07
ali1234i mean like usain bolt does18:07
ali1234asimo runs only by a limited definition that both feet are off the ground at the same time18:08
ali1234real actual sprinting conserves energy by bending your bones18:08
ali1234these robots are so light that they don't have enough momentum to do that18:08
ali1234and if they were heavy enough the servos would fail18:08
ali1234bigdog is probably the most impressive robot right now18:09
ali1234forget that, petman is better18:12
ali1234notice it doesn't have ridiculously large clown shoes like pretty much every other robot ever18:13
ali1234that's so good i almost want to say it's fake. amazing18:14
brobostigonwhats the software behind that doc collaboration thingie we have?18:48
DJonesbrobostigon: Etherpad ?18:49
brobostigonthank you DJones :)18:49
penguin42apt is nice and fast on an ssd :-)18:57
AzelphurAnyone recommend any good pocket PC repair tools? :)19:06
davmor2Azelphur: a screwdriver19:08
Azelphursomething to do laptops too, was thinking perhaps a multi tool of some sort19:08
* penguin42 does have a micro-leatherman which is kind of useful, frankly not that much for fixing stuff, and people get pissy even though it's only got a tiny blade19:09
Azelphuryea I've been tempted by the leatherman micro19:09
Azelphurpeople really get pissy about that though?19:09
penguin42Azelphur: Rarely, I've had it once or twice though19:10
davmor2so there are some folding bike tools that will cover most things you need to get into a pc, but to be honest you can't beat a proper pc tools case :)19:10
penguin42Azelphur: Enough so I don't carry it any more19:10
Azelphurhaha, was it normal people or police?19:10
penguin42Azelphur: Security guard19:10
Azelphurhaha, what did he do?19:10
AzelphurI'm curious now :P19:10
penguin42Azelphur: Oh just told me I had to hand it in before I could go in, made a fuss about it and gave me back when I left19:11
Azelphurah, I wouldn't mind that if I was going to secure locations19:11
penguin42Azelphur: Wasn't, just a theme park19:12
Azelphuryou might fix the rides :P19:12
penguin42always be prepared19:12
Azelphurhow'd he even know you had it on you?19:13
* penguin42 had it on my keychain19:13
AzelphurI'd be putting it in my pocket all concealed weapon like19:14
* Azelphur will attack children in theme parks with the nail file19:14
penguin42Azelphur: Well it's not like I was trying to conceal19:14
Azelphuryea me either19:15
AzelphurI just think it'd be something handy to have19:15
penguin42yeh it is19:16
penguin42Azelphur: Really want something where you can choose the tools though, I mean I don't need a bottle opener, or frankly the knife, but a better selection of drivers would be good19:17
Azelphuryea, that'd be cool19:17
AzelphurI'd be drawn to something that had screwdriver head bits so I could have all the security bits and stuff19:17
penguin42bit much to carry like that, and you'd lose them19:18
Azelphurpenguin42: I have a scottevest, nothing is too much to carry any more19:18
penguin42I do have a little set Maplin were selling; £1/set for little stubby ones19:18
Azelphurpenguin42: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH8uTdBXVmY19:18
penguin42oh is this the one where he pulls a macbook out at the end?19:18
penguin42Azelphur: and only a few seconds ago someone sent me http://boingboing.net/2012/07/17/steve-wozniaks-travel-backpa.html19:19
Azelphurpenguin42: I love my scottevest, here's me hiding a netbook in the pocket https://www.dropbox.com/sh/omno6gft4r87hdq/4GvJ0i1h0v :P19:22
penguin42do you often have to do that ?19:24
Azelphurpenguin42: have to? not really. Want to? Yes19:24
AzelphurEvery time I go to my brothers or something now I just put my netbook in my pocket19:25
penguin42yeh, I can see it's more convenient than a backpack19:25
Azelphurkinda hard to get hold of a leatherman micra now, only place I can find it is in USA or charging ridiculous amounts19:27
penguin42I'm sure I've seen them in camping shops19:27
AzelphurI think they stopped making them now19:28
penguin42Azelphur: I got mine at a conference, AMD were giving them away to organisers19:28
Azelphurnice :p19:28
brobostigonmy dad bought me back one of those, about 10 years ago, when he was on a business trip to america.19:29
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=== Guest16702 is now known as WebPigeon
Azelphursuppose I'll get it used on Amazon for £1419:32
Azelphurunless anyone is particularly interested in parting with theirs :P19:33
brobostigonsorry, no.19:33
AlanBellthink I might get some lime green paint and make a greenscreen wall19:35
jacobwone should never part with their leatherman19:36
* jacobw has https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scynn9rN-YA19:36
Azelphurjacobw: nice, that's kinda tempting too :)19:39
Azelphurhaha it has a saw blade xD19:40
Azelphurjacobw: is that a standard screwdriver bit socket?19:41
Azelphuryay for the comments "Definitely not legal to carry in the UK" :(19:42
jacobwjust don't get stopped and searched19:43
jacobwmine is an old model, it doesn't have the socket or the helpful markings described in the movie19:45
penguin42Azelphur: Might be possible to have the blade removed19:47
jacobwthat would make it far less useful19:47
AzelphurI imagine you'd be allowed to keep the blades that don't have the pointed ends19:47
jacobwthe blade itself isn't illegal, its the locking mechanism that makes blade illegal19:50
penguin42the locking mechanism?19:51
jacobwif a knife tool locks in to an weapon like position it illegal in the UK, otherwise its considered to be a tool19:51
Azelphuryay for UK weapon laws19:52
jacobwmost knife tools don't lock, if you push the blade from the blunt side it retracts, if you try to stab someone with it, it retracts or buckles in direction of the blunt side19:53
penguin42oh that kind of makes sense - can you get existing stuff modded like that?19:55
jacobwthe leatherman wave has a tab that is depressed by the blade in the closed position, when the blade is open the tab presses against the blade to jam it open19:58
jacobwif you removed the tab, it'd be legal in the UK19:58
jacobwit'd be quite easy to do19:58
ahayzenNet split? uhoh19:59
jacobwsecond time this evening19:59
ahayzenwhts going on ?19:59
=== AlanChicken is now known as AlanBell
jacobwthe irc daemon moves users from servers with high load to servers with lower load20:01
ahayzeni see20:01
ahayzentoo many people using Ubuntu and IRC ;)20:01
jacobwirc ftw20:02
jacobwin all seriousness, irc is the best communication medium i'm aware of20:02
Azelphurindeed :P20:02
jacobwhave you seen the steam news Azelphur ?20:04
AzelphurI have indeed, gonna be cool20:04
ahayzenwill the nouveau drivers be up to it will be the main question for me.20:05
ali1234noooooooooooo they won't20:06
ali1234not a chance20:06
ahayzenwell on my current machine the Nouveau 'feels' faster and better than the Nvidia ones20:06
ali1234and on my machine they can't even run in 2D mode for longer than 10 minutes20:06
ali1234then the whole machine locks up20:06
ahayzeni play all the same games as before, with the same settings .... and i haven't noticed any difference20:07
ali1234nouveau is extremely hit and miss20:07
ahayzenyep seems to be20:07
ahayzenali1234, what is your graphics card?20:07
ali1234NVIDIA Corporation GT215 [GeForce GT 240] (rev a2)20:08
ahayzenNVIDIA Corporation G80 [GeForce 8800 GTS] (rev a2)20:08
ali1234the bugs with this card are well known to the developers btw20:09
ali1234there's a note about it in the documentation somewhere20:09
ahayzeni see, i guess the older cards are better as they have had more development time to sort out the bugs20:09
ali1234this card is over 2 years old20:09
ali1234probably 320:09
ahayzenoh, is your card one of the ones that needs the reclocking ?20:10
ali1234i have no idea20:10
ali1234i just know that dual head or any kind of 3d = instant total freezing of machine20:10
ali1234and 2d mode will generally crash within 10 minutes20:10
ahayzenblimey not gd :(20:10
jacobwi think the valve console theories are plausible20:10
ali1234me too, kind of20:11
ali1234or if not a console then something like onlive20:12
ali1234i tried onlive and was surprised how little lag there is20:12
jacobwi've just looked it up, i was thinking about lag20:13
ali1234they must have some sweet encoding hardware20:13
ahayzenCloud gaming could be interesting for linux, as the game would only have to be written once (run on the sever?), so only the client would have to be written for linux, correct?20:14
ali1234yeah and the client only has to play a video and collect input so it's trivial20:14
ali1234so if valve wanted to set up a onlive type thing, they'd currently need a load of windows licences20:14
ali1234but if they port all their games to linux...20:15
jacobwlike vnc/rdp with gaming input devices20:15
ali1234onlive has a deal with microsoft (which microsoft tried to change) and also has to buy playstations etc20:15
jacobwthey'd need an insane number of windows licenses20:15
AzelphurHas anyone here ever used MultiSystem? Trying to get more than one Windows image on there and it's not having it :(20:15
ali1234valve entering the hardware business doesn't make a huge amount of sense20:16
ali1234however, game streaming to mobile devices... now that makes sense20:16
ali1234they are definitely up to something20:16
jacobwperhaps they'll make their own controller for all platforms20:17
ahayzenCloud gaming almost has the same philosophy as Java "write once, run anywhere" .... if you had a client "anywhere" ;)20:19
ali1234no, it's more like thin client/mainframe20:20
ahayzenyh i guess20:20
ali1234goes for the whole cloud really20:20
jacobwit's better than that, it's run in one place that's optimized for running the software and access from anywhere20:20
* penguin42 throws the channel 'sutherlands wheel of reincarnation'20:21
jacobwi'd be very happy to have a controller that i can use on all platforms for games that i could play by proxy on all platforms20:23
ali1234ok i've nearly figured out a way to make my road surface have forks and also do cylinders/pipes properly and i just have one problem left20:26
ali1234and it boils down to this20:26
ali1234imagine a 2d grid20:26
jacobwwhat's the context?20:26
jacobwroad surface in what?20:26
ali1234the way those tubes are implemented is BAD20:27
ali1234i've come up with a way to fix it that also allows forks in the road20:28
ali1234so each section of the track has a position and orientation20:28
ahayzenblimey, did you create that ali1234?20:28
ahayzenthts awesome :)20:28
ali1234the 2d grid maps onto the position/orientation and forms the cross section of the track at that point20:28
ali1234so in the 2d grid you have a bunch of lines with a left point and a right point20:29
ali1234the points snap to the grid (ie they are integers)20:29
ali1234so the problem is that each line needs to possibly be connected to another one20:29
ali1234a connection is 1 left point and 1 right point20:30
ali1234so if you drive over the edge you move into the next part of the cross section20:30
ali1234further, if two lines are connected, the cross section is no longer a cross section, it becomes a spline instead, which allows curved tracs, and even cylinders if it is a looop20:30
ali1234so all that is fine20:31
ali1234but, i'm wondering how to model the connections20:31
ali1234each point can only be connected to one other point which must be the opposite type20:31
ali1234since it's a grid you can easily detect if two points are in the same place20:31
ali1234and then join them20:31
ali1234however, what if there are three points in one place?20:31
livingdaylightI've installed a bin file but can't seem now to launch it?20:32
jacobwlivingdaylight: chmod +x /path/to/file; ./path/to/file20:32
livingdaylighthttp://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4087/screenshotfrom201207172.png its got a diamond shaped launcher in its folder in my home directory. But just clicking on it doesn't seem to launch it.20:32
ali1234so then i need to have another bit of data with a list of connections20:32
livingdaylightjacobw, I did that to install it, but can't run it now.20:33
jacobw'each point can only be connected to one other point'20:33
livingdaylightI googled but everything comes back to how to install it; nothing on how to launch it20:33
jacobwhow can you have a divergance?20:33
ali1234jacobw: one or none20:33
livingdaylightbtw is chmod 700 an alternative to +x ?20:34
dauberslivingdaylight: what does file tell you about the file?20:34
daubersfile /path/to/file20:34
ali1234jacobw: left point is always connected to it's matching right point. each point can also be connected to one other point of the opposite type20:35
jacobwlivingdaylight: each number in the permission is a sum of 4 for read, 2 for write and 1 for execute, 4+2+1, or r+w+x is 7; the first number is for owner, the second is for the group, and the last is for world20:36
livingdaylightdaubers, http://pastebin.com/jcJhP6tT20:36
ali1234hmm another way of saying this is each position on the grid can only contain 1 left point and 1 right point, and they can't belond to the same section20:36
jacobwlivingdaylight: owner=r+w+x,group=none,world=none is 70020:36
livingdaylightjacobw, cool!20:36
dauberslivingdaylight: do you get an error on trying to run it20:37
livingdaylightdaubers, nothing happens. You mean when I click on the launcher?20:38
livingdaylightdaubers, http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4087/screenshotfrom201207172.png20:38
jacobwali1234: i see20:38
dauberslivingdaylight: what happens if you try and run it from a terminal?20:39
livingdaylightdaubers, how would I run it from terminal?20:39
dauberscd to the directory containing it20:40
daubersthen just do ./clip2net20:40
livingdaylightdaubers, yea, tried that before, and get this: (clip2net:9073): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_style_get: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed20:41
jacobwali1234: so if you have divergence you have pairs of left and right points at the same depth?20:41
ali1234no there is no depth, it is 2d at each control point20:42
livingdaylightdaubers, http://pastebin.com/UnS3cCjT20:42
dauberslivingdaylight: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/805303 <- different program same problem. They seem to suggest its the GTK theme for Qt or somesuch20:42
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 805303 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_style_get: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed with the default qt4 gui" [Critical,Fix released]20:42
jacobwa series of control points in 2d is what i meant by depth20:43
daubersFrom that report workaround: install qtconfig-qt4 and change gui style to motif.20:43
daubersBit old though... (nearly 12 months)20:43
jacobwsorry, 'depth' is ambiguous :)20:43
ali1234still ambiguous20:43
ali1234there's no depth20:43
livingdaylightdaubers, aha! I'll try that then. Never had prblems with it in previous versions of Ubuntu20:43
ali1234there's just a list of lines which may or may not be connected20:43
ali1234let me make a picture to illustrate20:44
livingdaylightdaubers, can't sudo apt-get install qtconfig-qt4 . Where would I change gui style, please?20:46
jacobwi understand the structure, i don't understand how you can diverge if you can't have a line that connects to two non overlapping lines20:46
ali1234then you don't understand it :)20:46
dauberslivingdaylight: Pass.... this is a bit outside my are of understanding20:47
ali1234jacobw: http://ubuntuone.com/4ixP4VGn1R7X0mI3MrtzfU20:48
livingdaylightdo we have another screenshot available in Linux that publishes to the web directly like jing etc, anyone?20:48
livingdaylightdaubers, no worries - thanks anyway - very much.20:48
=== WebPigeon is now known as Guest54896
jacobwso the problem with three points in the same place is one is orphaned when the other two are connected?20:54
ali1234at each stage there are always 4 points20:56
ali1234that's the cross sections20:57
ali1234bottom is the cross section at the point where they diverge20:57
ali1234so L1 is always connected to R1 etc20:57
ali1234there can be any number of such line sections20:58
ali1234so the challenge is to know when two line sections connect20:58
ali1234that happens if an L point and an R point are in the same place, and they don't belong to the same line section20:58
jacobwwhen 2 pointrs are in the same place20:58
ali1234so i need to enforce that basically20:59
ali1234each grid point can only have 1 L and 1 R and they can't belong to the same line20:59
ali1234and i'd like to do that in a way that can never have invalid data put into it20:59
ali1234there are other constraints on the overall surface that this system models extremely well21:00
ali1234eg you need to know a distance, so it has to ultimately be linear21:00
ali1234moving side to side does not advance you, ever21:00
=== GingeryDog is now known as GingerDog
ali1234and each resulting face has to have well defined tangents and normal21:03
jacobwis the 1 left and 1 right and not same line implemented yet?21:03
ali1234i am talking about completely rewriting it21:03
jacobwdo you allow this and collapse the lines or not allow it?21:03
ali1234none of this is implemented21:03
ali1234the way it works now sucks21:04
ali1234i guess i have two hash maps, one for left points and one for right points21:07
jacobwl { x, y } and r { x, y }21:07
ali1234maybe not since i'll never have more than 4 or 5, i can just loop21:08
ali1234and the insertion functions will have to check and raise an error if something not allowed happens21:08
ali1234i would prefer a datastructure that always prevents error conditions by design21:09
ali1234but i don't think it is posible21:09
jacobwi think it is21:10
jacobwi can't see anything contradictory in the definition21:10
ali1234but think about this from an editor ui POV21:11
ali1234i could have {L{x,y}, R{x,y}, next}21:11
ali1234where next points to the next Left point21:11
ali1234but that doesn't prevent a) two edges join into the same target edge21:12
ali1234ie Y shapes21:12
ali1234and it doesn't enforce the positional requirements21:12
ali1234and also i'd need to make a UI for connection points21:12
ali1234i'd prefer to just connect the points by dragging a L onto an R21:12
ali1234or an R onto an L21:12
ali1234as long as that one constraint is enforced it all fits21:13
ali1234if a point contains Ln, it can only also contain one R(m!=n), or nothing21:14
ali1234if that is ever violated the whole program crashes out with an assert error :)21:14
jacobwyou need to prevent _\|/_ shapes where each line is too narrow for the vehicle21:15
ali1234the lines are never too narrow21:15
ali1234the vehicle is a point21:15
jacobwthe vehicle is smallest possible point?21:16
ali1234so unless Ln = Rn, and then it's not a surface any more and you get divide by zero when trying to calculate it21:16
ali1234in terms of it's motion on the surface, yes21:16
ali1234for collision detection with other vehicle it's a sphere currently21:16
ali1234so that's why the m!=n rule21:16
ali1234a point can only share it's position with the opposite side point from a different edge section, to prevent the track from being 0 wide21:17
ali1234since they are on a grid that means the track will be always at least 1 unit wide21:17
ali1234putting this stuff on a grid is the key really to make it manageable21:17
ali1234and that just means using integers for the positions21:18
ali1234i'll probably use signed char for the grid positions just to keep it simple21:18
ali1234and then multiply it up to make it bigger as required21:19
ali1234though i think the maximum width of the track in the video is only 50 meters or so21:19
jacobwi can't think of a way to allow divergent paths in a link list of lines21:19
ali1234yeah that's the key21:19
ali1234this allows it21:19
ali1234but the linked list is still a list21:19
ali1234the path can diverge21:19
ali1234but only along the direction of travel21:20
ali1234and it has to join up again21:20
ali1234imagine a rope21:20
ali1234you untwist one section and you can see the individual strands21:20
ali1234you can cut two strands and swap them over21:21
ali1234and rejoin them21:21
ali1234or leave them un connected21:21
ali1234see, in the model, i didn't mention it, but each edge line also knows which edge line it onnects to in the next section21:21
ali1234(or none)21:21
jacobwi like the rope analogy21:22
ali1234i have it all worked out21:22
ali1234it'sjust this one rule enforcement that's left to nail down21:22
ali1234i just realised something21:28
jacobwmy visual cortex hurts21:29
ali1234since each edge can connect to a different edge in the next control point, alloing arbitrary linkages is unnecessary21:29
ali1234eg R1 -> L321:29
ali1234is not needed21:29
ali1234you just reorganise it however you want :)21:29
ali1234so at R1 i only need to check if R1 == L221:29
ali1234cool, that simplifies things a lot21:31
jacobwdisallow arbitrary linkage?21:31
ali1234so eg R1 can only share with L221:31
ali1234R2 can only share with L321:31
jacobwthat avoids the sides movement may go forward problem21:32
jacobwi think21:32
ali1234no, sides movement never goes forwards21:32
ali1234that's not a problem21:32
ali1234because linkages between these edges only ever represents sideways movement21:32
ali1234to move forwards you move into the next segment, which has a whole other set of lines in a different grid21:33
ali1234that's the only way to maintain the distance measurement21:33
ali1234ok so i can't disallow arbitrary linkages :(21:34
ali1234if i want a cross section like - O -21:34
jacobwwithout another way to maintain the distance measurement21:34
ali1234remember this is only about the 2d cross section at some distance around the track21:34
ali1234so anywhere along these edges is always the same distance from the start/finish21:35
jacobwcan you make arbitrary linkages only visible to the distance measurement?21:38
ali1234they are irrelevant21:38
* jacobw sleeps21:43
AlanBellali1234: is there an advantage to taking the inside line on a corner?21:43
ali1234yes of course21:43
ali1234it took so much head banging to make that work, let me tell you21:44
ali1234you also won't travel in a straight line if the track is curved and you don't steer21:44
AlanBellcool, I didn't follow all the discussion here, just saw you mention that any point on a cross section was the same distance to the start/finish21:44
ali1234the surface is a manifold21:45
ali1234so it has always i,j coords as well as x,y,z coords21:45
ali1234you move along a geodesic path21:45
ali1234which is calculated using a stepwise integrator21:46
ali1234the control points produce a trimesh21:46
ali1234you move in a straight line only within triangles in that trimesh21:46
ali1234when you hit an edge you rotate around that edge vector into the next triangle and continue21:46
ali1234then, you know who is wining by sorting on j21:48
ali1234and the AI knows how to steer by looking at i21:48
AlanBellhello returning podcasters and spacehackers21:49
zleapevening popey21:49
zleapi am back to subscribing to the podcast now21:50
zleapand the naked scientist one21:50
* zleap hides after an unrelated plug21:50
zleapwhich was not intended21:50
* christel tickles AlanBell and popey and zleap 21:50
dickHi, I am using Kies air to connect to my samsung s2. I want to download the pictures I took on it but it says to download multiple files (or to upload a file smaller than 100mb) I need to run the java applet then it prompts me to download java. I looked, I have openJDK java 7 runtime installed.21:58
AlanBellsudo apt-get install icedtea-plugin22:03
dickAlanbell: Thanks, I'll do that when ubuntu is finished getting it's updates. I can use bluetooth to connect to it but that only sends a few kb at a time22:04
AlanBellthe plugin lets the browser use the java you have installed I think, normally it sorts it out by magic, but if it doesn't then that should fix it22:05
AlanBellhave you upgraded your S2 to Ice Cream Sandwich?22:06
AlanBellI couldn't get the kies desktop software to run at all so ended up putting cyanogen mod on mine as O2 are not doing an over the air upgrade22:06
ali1234CM9 is pretty awesome22:07
dickI think it has android 4.1, whatever they call that. I tried to install cyanogenmod using hemidall but the instructions in the wiki didn't work22:08
AlanBellyeah, it seems fine, though I really want to put boot to gecko on it now22:08
AlanBellit took me a few attempts and I thought I had bricked the phone at one point, apparently there is a bit of a knack in holding the right combination of buttons as you turn it on to get it in the right mode22:09
dickI downloaded the sudo apt-get install icedtea-plugin and now I have a java applet come up that lets me select files. I tried to upload an album but it didn't like that, so I uploaded the files, it hasn't uplloaded. I tried downloading the pictures from it, they haven't downloaded22:35
dickI've connected my samsung s2 via USB, it is set as USB media device. In ubuntu I can see a directory listing but there's nothing in any folder. I tried turning my phone off and on again, no difference22:52
dicklikewise transferring to the vice comes up with error creating directory -1: unspecified error22:53
dickthere's an icon showing the USB plug and it says syncronising22:55
dickNvm, I went into USB utils in settings, told it to connect as usb storage, the cartoon android turned from green to orange and I'm now transferring the files over. Life is good22:58
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest11351

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