Xubuntu &distro-rev; Documentation

[05:35] knome: How is that different from my _normal_ mode, exactly? Wait, don't answer that. [09:31] astraljava, :) [09:32] astraljava, what you doing today? [12:28] jockey-gtk is going away in quantal (replaced by a tab in software-properties-gtk) [12:31] aha [12:32] not the worst news [12:32] so now you can't find additional drivers in the menu under "additional drivers" but under "software sources" [12:33] well, yeah, that sucks [12:33] which is *definitely* an improvement(!) [12:33] but at least it's not incorporated in USC or so [12:33] (that's called the mpt-i-don't-need-to-justify touch) [12:33] maybe we should rethink the menu item name. [12:33] we can't if we want it to be translated :P [12:33] (unless we set up translations on lp) [12:34] maybe ubuntu in general should rethink [12:34] :P [12:34] maybe something like "software (sources) and drivers" [12:35] or we might be able to call s-p-g with the specific tab open? [12:35] that shouldn't be too hard, and i think i could get somebody to hack that in. [12:36] knome: I was meaning to go to jussi's, but I'm not sure when I can actually get there. Work is being nightmarish today. [12:36] astraljava, in that case you're probably not coming here either :) [12:40] Most likely not. :) [12:40] hf anyway [12:40] you attending the meeting? [12:41] I may, but not too sure if I can pay it any attention. [12:41] mmh. [12:42] Like I said, this is living hell now (yea I know that is _not_ what I said...) [12:42] :| [12:42] hope it gets better [13:31] It will, now that support lines are down for the day, but the customers still left me like gazillion things to finish. [13:31] blah :| [13:31] But an update, I'll be meeting Jussi downtown instead of going to their place. So it's still open for the left of the night. [13:32] not right? :P [13:32] He's seeing a friend, and since I don't have any money, I won't be staying anywhere for a considerable time anyhow. [13:32] No, not right. [13:32] Center, if anything. [13:32] * knome didn't have anything specific in mind [13:33] just that if you wanted to sit down and chat, play or sth :) [13:34] oh, and an update from my side. [13:34] i'll be off fri-mon, not sun, as i said before [13:35] Unit193, you going to be at the meeting today? [14:06] Wait, are _we_ having a meeting today, too? I thought somehow you were referring to the QA meeting. [14:07] yes, we are. [14:07] and yes, it's in 53 mins. [14:07] Oh, *oops*. [14:07] well. that's life ;) [14:07] * astraljava seems to have lost it. [14:07] we probably should decide about a3 [14:07] and there's some QA stuff in the agenda [14:08] * astraljava frowns [14:27] knome: I'll be in and out for the meeting [14:48] micahg, ok :) [14:49] astraljava, so, final verdict? in or out? :P [14:49] pleia2, good morning sunshine! [14:52] people here for the meeting? [14:58] so? [14:58] :P [14:59] o/ [14:59] oh hai [14:59] so, are you in or out? [14:59] :) [14:59] Though I'm not much of a use at the moment. [14:59] or both [14:59] * pleia2 yawns and mutters [14:59] I'll be around. [14:59] yeah. i'm still proposing to have an informal meeting [14:59] to avoid the meeting bureaucracy [14:59] (if it looks like there isn't really attendees, i mean) [14:59] i'll pick up my coffee [15:00] Yup. [15:00] even my cat has sleepy eyes [15:03] :D [15:03] Isn't that the same approx. 18 hours of any given day? [15:03] you must be really tired then. [15:03] astraljava, we are going to release alpha3, right? [15:03] micahg, any reason not to go for alpha3? [15:04] What am I, a release manager now? *rolls eyes* [15:04] astraljava, i was asking for QA POV [15:04] But I'd assume as much, yes. [15:04] Yes I got it. :) [15:04] yes, i'm all for releasing it (and getting and doing dome tests for it!) [15:05] I just installed Studio a couple days ago, and since it's relying so much on Xubuntu, I'd say it's a safe choice. [15:05] o/ [15:05] But, I noticed a lot of bugmail activity just recently. [15:05] pleia2, i'd consider the informal meeting very productive if we got to set up the wiki and sent an email to the list [15:05] And I haven't had time to go through them all. [15:05] I don't see a reason not to release alpha3 [15:05] great [15:05] there are a few questions though [15:06] 1. Image size, are we sticking with CDs? [15:06] yes [15:06] 2. Defaults, has this been finalized? [15:06] (we've been oversized since the beginning though) [15:06] defaults regarding what [15:06] mr_pouit: right :) [15:06] knome: applications [15:06] how much are we over? [15:06] 20~40M I think [15:06] 20M on the 64-bit last I saw [15:07] micahg, nope. is there a deadline other than some virtual milestone, or FF [15:07] 20-40MB on the live images [15:07] alternate i386 12MB, amd64 20MB. [15:07] what if we dropped gimp from the default installation? [15:07] knome: no, but the earlier, the better testing we get I guess [15:07] knome: gasp [15:07] desktop i386 22MB, amd64 38MB (!) [15:07] i know that dragged some people to xubuntu, but it's taking a lot of spae [15:07] knome: that would do it, but that's something people love :) [15:08] but again, they can install it from the repositories [15:08] gimp isn't really lightweight [15:08] knome: if we're sticking with a CD, I can try to pare it down this weekend [15:08] knome: Xubuntu isn't about lightweight :) [15:08] micahg, yes, we would like to have a cd, thanks! [15:08] micahg, you are correct.. [15:09] let's leave dropping gimp as the nuclear option ;) [15:09] but we're stuck with too many stack, GTK2/3, python2/3, webkitgtk1.0/3.0 [15:09] i'm still not sure about gimp; i'd LOVE to have something else instead, but just dropping it would work for me too [15:09] micahg, can we drop python2, or is that an xfce requirement? [15:10] micahg, or, "what is there that's making is stick with python 2?" [15:10] knome: well, we can see about porting stuff we need to python3, idk what actually uses it [15:10] definitely. [15:10] gimp uses it :) [15:11] awwh! [15:11] will you port gimp to python 3? [15:11] :] [15:11] nope [15:11] or drop gimp and python 2... >:) [15:11] oh, about screen locking, lightdm has support for it, but we need a way to show the preferences in xfce4-settings [15:12] that shouldn't be too hard? [15:12] bluesabre_, up for a small task? :) [15:13] idk, mr_pouit would know more about that [15:13] i'd imagine that can't be seriously hard. [15:13] oh nice [15:14] micahg, the city? [15:14] mr_pouit, ^ [15:14] (that's it for the bad joke, typoing...) [15:14] xfce4-settings can launch a binary anyway, we're not forced to do the integration into the settings's window like other xfce components [15:15] that's what i was thinking. [15:16] micahg, i'll try push to get the "new default apps" stuff ready for beta1, if at all possible [15:16] knome: feature freeze would be better, but yeah [15:16] is that before b1? [15:16] well, it's all about the same time anyways [15:16] yes [15:16] ah, then ff [15:16] also, what about 12.04.1, anything need fixing for that? [15:17] some theming stuff at least. [15:17] i need to check that with ochosi before he goes away (fri) [15:18] ochosi, can you gather a list of what theming stuff we need to fix for 12.04.1 - ta [15:18] micahg, anyway most of that stuff ^ is ready already, just need pushing [15:20] knome: ok, what about bugs [15:20] Bug #962469 is bad and needs to be fixed [15:20] Launchpad bug 962469 in blueman (Ubuntu Precise) "blueman-applet crashed with KeyError in card_cb(): 'bluez.path'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962469 [15:20] I've emailed the upstream dev without success [15:21] don't know what else i can do but try to contact them [15:25] knome: Porting GIMP to Python3? As awesome as that would be, I'll have to decline. :D [15:25] bluesabre_, ahh, no [15:25] bluesabre_, add screen locking preferences (lightdm) to xfce-settings-manager [15:26] knome: Is there an app that does that, or do I need to develop that app? [15:27] knome: Or are you talking about adding an entry to the settings? [15:28] Because that would be easy :) [15:30] knome: Need anything from me? I'm gonna move in a few minutes. [15:30] astraljava, in what sense need? [15:30] For this bastard formation of a meeting. [15:30] bluesabre_, well, an app should be created to handle those; it can be integrated or separate, as mr_pouit said [15:30] astraljava, no, i don't [15:30] Ok, thanks. [15:30] astraljava, have "fun" meeting jussi [15:30] :] [15:31] I'll only collect some stuff he has from me/for me, and head home ASAP. [15:31] heh :) [15:31] ok, fair enough [15:31] But I'll tell him your "warm regards". [15:31] hehe [15:31] please do... :) [15:33] knome: I'll look into it [15:33] knome: What settings do we need for it? [15:34] bluesabre_: Ubuntu just has, on/off, lock screen after, and require password toggle [15:39] Oh, if it's already in Ubuntu, that will make it easy [15:39] I'll check it out today [15:39] bluesabre_, fantastic [15:39] after this cup of coffee, i'm off to shower. [15:40] docs? [15:40] pleia2, we can do that before or after. [15:40] ok, so this is where we left off with docs https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008243.html & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation [15:40] yes [15:41] as we discussed yesterday, i think we should just set up something where people can edit the documentation [15:41] yesterday I set up a basic moinmoin (same as ubuntu wiki) install on my server that people can use for collaborating on docs [15:41] and send an email to the mailing list [15:41] great! [15:41] the original docs can be found here, which people should probably use as a baseline: https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs [15:42] they're in docbook, but if people are scared of that they can just go to menu > help and read the .html files on their own system [15:42] http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu is the collaboration space [15:42] so yeah, we need to draft an email that will empower and inspire ;) [15:43] http://typewith.me/p/RT4qAanipe [15:43] people don't want to be the first one making a change, generally [15:47] oh, I did have one question dev-ish related to documentation [15:47] in the docbook we have a section like: [15:47] ok [15:47] Xubuntu &distro-rev; Documentation [15:47] hmm... right? [15:48] &distro-rev; should be updated with magic, but I don't know how that's done (and it wasn't done with 12.04) [15:48] should we even use that? [15:48] I think so [15:48] it could be done [15:48] i'm not sure if that is *vital* :) [15:48] knome: having a version number at all? [15:49] pleia2, yeah. [15:49] pleia2, because, naturally, the docs should be the same version as the distro [15:49] * pleia2 nods [15:50] pleia2, if they aren't the version number is useless anyway [15:50] apparently :) [15:50] but i don't mind if the version number is there either [15:50] just thinking if it makes sense to take time to get it working, if it's not really trivial [15:51] yeah [15:51] ok, I think that's all I had [15:51] :) [15:54] oh wait, I wasn't done, look - someone made a pretty banner for us! http://www.facebook.com/xubuntuusers [15:54] hehe [15:54] he's planning on doing a similar one for G+ too, wants to bring our branding more "together" [15:55] it's somewhat blurry though [15:55] if you click on it it's sharper, I think it's facebook mangling [15:55] weird. [15:55] looks fine though [15:55] maybe i'd make the bg of the bottom section a bit grey, to separate from the bar below [15:56] if they need anything graphical, just tell them to contact me and i'll happily provide. [15:57] I can put you in touch with the designer, he had ideas of putting together a branding pallet that we could extend to other social media stuff [15:57] sure [15:57] but it's nice to have more artists interested :) [15:57] if he can join irc, that would be ideal, but email works as well [15:57] but note that i will be away for fri-mon [15:57] and probably most of tomorrow night too [15:58] will do [15:58] (wife's holiday - 3 weeks!) [15:58] is she going somewhere or can we put her to work on something? :) [15:59] lol [15:59] Mrs. knome can be our docs lead [15:59] i'm sure she thinks i'm doing enough for FOSS for our family :D [15:59] actually yeah, I think my fiance feels the same [15:59] fair enough, i think.. :D [16:00] so, how does the email look now? [16:00] the draft is looking ok, I'm heading out to the airport in 4 hours [16:00] hehe, great minds... [16:00] mind reading \o/ [16:01] i'm thinking we should let it simmer a bit in our heads, then come back and send it [16:01] and we need to add the example sections, as i promised there! [16:01] ok, that's fine [16:01] whatever we do, we should make it easy to navigate around the wiki [16:02] I'll see how my internet access is this weekend (I think OSCON causes a sink hole of bad access in the whole city of Portland when it happens though) [16:02] mmh [16:02] well, i will be completely offline for the weekend, so.. :) [16:02] * pleia2 nods [16:03] maybe we can postpone sending all the way to monday, so we'd have people respond to questions [16:03] yeah [16:03] at least i'd feel bad if people started asking and i wasn't here, and the rest were like "umm..." [16:03] yeah [16:03] i copied the draft as it is now to HDD just to be sure it's safe [16:03] thanks [16:03] np [16:03] thank you [16:04] ...aaaand i'm out of coffee [16:04] shower :) [16:04] see you in a bit [16:04] (if you're still around; if not, have fun) [16:04] -> [16:04] see you [16:04] enjoy :) [16:22] sry, no way i could've made the meeting [16:22] hey ochosi :) [16:22] np [16:22] we were quite productive anyway [16:22] i mean you know the news anyway (i think) [16:22] which ones? :P [16:22] i'm just trying to send an email summery [16:22] *summary [16:22] greybird and albatross ported to gtk3's default engine (only bluebird still needs unico) [16:23] first translations land in catfish, release will hopefully follow shortly [16:23] yeah, we didn't really follow the meeting agenda [16:23] we just had an informal one [16:23] see your inbox [16:23] and parole is getting in very nice shape [16:23] btw, could you do the finnish translation of catfish? [16:23] sure. [16:23] it's really just a few rather simple strings [16:23] was it on LP? [16:23] yes [16:24] what's with the settings-manager and sean exactly? [16:24] he's doing the technical side of it? [16:24] since we're dropping xscreensaver, we need to have a lock dialog [16:25] lightdm can do that, but we need to have the settings editable somewhere [16:25] it already can do that? [16:25] that'd be awesome [16:25] so i'm told :P [16:25] well [16:25] so anyway, how do i translate catfish again? [16:25] i heard about the _plans_ for that [16:25] :) [16:26] just hassle with the .pos? [16:27] dl this and translate the strings in the file: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/catfish-search/trunk/view/head:/po/catfish.pot [16:27] then save as fi.pot and send to bluesabre_ via email or something like that [16:27] ok [16:27] i'll do that [16:28] eh [16:28] sry, took me a while to find the file/link [16:28] what's with "Do you " [16:28] second last translation [16:28] yeah, not sure :) i just translated it [16:28] that's not so easy in finnish... [16:29] i'd say translate all the other strings [16:29] there are more cumbersome ones [16:29] i think it needs review [16:29] but dropping strings isn't really an issue [16:29] partial translation is better than no translation... [16:30] btw, do you have suggestions for the "open location" dialog in parole? [16:30] (screenshot coming up) [16:31] http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-07182012-063122pm.php [16:31] atm it's very plain and simple [16:32] hmm. [16:32] are you suggesting there could be more to that? [16:32] sidenote: i looked into the gmb column-align changes you proposed. that would need another extra-shimmer-patch. i'd rather wait with that until our current delta is narrowed by quentin [16:32] yeah, prolly, not sure [16:32] sure. i'd want that upstream, definitely [16:32] e.g. vlc has a few lines of URL examples [16:33] gmb: ok, it's just gonna take some more time, squentin is really busy atm [16:39] knome: jockey's been fixed (pitti updated the seed), it'll get into the archive in the next meta upload [16:40] micahg, fixed in what way? :) [16:40] i really need ppl to test greybird and albatross from git in quantal btw! (ideally before i do the next release, which i wanna do around the weekend) [16:41] knome: dropped, it's in software-properties now [16:41] "fixed" == dropped [16:41] ok! ;) [16:43] ochosi: I can do that over the next couple of days if it helps - especially if you point me at things you specifically want checking [16:44] hobgoblin: absolutely! well i'd say start a few gtk3 apps from the console and send me the output, and then just look for visual glitches... [16:44] ok [16:45] by the way I'm using quantal all the time now so - stable for me [16:45] great [16:45] then just pull the themes [16:45] ok [16:45] oh and please mv them to /usr/share/themes [16:45] :) [16:45] lol [16:45] i've experienced smaller glitches without that [16:45] (although i can't explain why) [16:45] ok [16:45] point me where they are please [16:46] https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tarball/master [16:46] https://github.com/shimmerproject/Albatross/tarball/masterD [16:46] gah [16:46] https://github.com/shimmerproject/Albatross/tarball/master [16:47] k [16:47] what did "deep search" mean again? [16:47] knome: i translated it to "intensive search" in german [16:47] knome: it means: search without the locate cache (with find) [16:47] hmmh [16:47] ok... [16:48] so if your cache is out-of-date... [16:49] i'm going to translate it to "power search" [16:50] or actually "powerful search" [16:51] knome: powerful search would sound/look odd in English [16:51] hobgoblin, makes sense in finnish though [16:52] more than literal translation [16:52] :) [17:04] ochosi: ok - got them both - will run with albatross for a day then greybird for a day - it would be a help for me if I had some idea of which are gtk3 apps [17:08] hobgoblin: sure, evince, simplescan, software-sources, gnome-games [17:09] ("sure" is not application btw, just a word i threw in there for affirmatory reasons) [17:09] lol [17:09] cheers :) [17:09] most likely there are more [17:09] * ochosi can't remember what is there exactly in the default app-set [17:10] things like synaptic - gtk2 ? [17:10] yup [17:10] well ideally you won't see the difference with greybird and albatross ;) [17:11] :) [17:11] give me a couple of days to play with them and I will report back to you on Friday [17:12] or earlier if I can [17:12] great, thanks a bunch in advance! [17:12] welcome [17:12] btw, with greybird i expect warnings [17:12] hopefully no errors or visual breakage though [17:12] ok [17:12] greybird's gtk3 is currently built for gtk3.4 [17:12] but i'll add in the changes for gtk3.5 after you've tested [17:16] ok [17:44] knome: Nope. [18:43] And if it's worth anything, I'd give a plus to renameing Software Properties, and putting a launcher directly to drivers as well. [19:24] tweeted the meeting summary links ;) [19:33] pleia2, tara === Daviey_ is now known as Daviey [23:02] * pleia2 suddenly remembers why she doesn't like managing documentation [23:16] pleia2, that is? [23:18] formats suck :( [23:18] heh. :) [23:18] let's try to go with minimal formatting. [23:18] should just be easy for everyone to write it <--- over here, and hten we commit it and ship it over here --> [23:19] wut [23:19] :D [23:19] hehe [23:19] you lost me [23:19] must be those arrows. [23:19] we need a wysiwyg editor that isn't horrible :) [23:19] hah. [23:21] I think what needs to be done is the team decides the structure, decides what they need, and they just use the wiki to copy over stuff that they need to edit together [23:21] yeah. but they probably need to use the wiki to cooperate on that [23:21] (or "ownerships" of specific sections anyway) [23:21] yeah [23:22] that's probably something we want to partly set up already for the people [23:22] * pleia2 nods [23:22] I had grand plans of actually copying all the docs over, but then I stopped with the crazy [23:22] well, yeah [23:22] nobody should batch-do that [23:23] i wouldn't mind if *eventually* everything is in the wiki [23:23] but i figured out it's just not sane to do that yourself [23:23]