[01:35] <twb> I don't know if you remember, but I was having problems with d-i getting my timezone wrong due to confusion between Australia/Melbourne and Australia/Victoria.
[01:35] <twb> cjwatson: it turns out this was probably my fault, because my DHCP server is configured to tell clients they're in Australia/Melbourne.
[11:09] <mpt> cjwatson, xnox thinks we shouldn't offer RAID 0 as an option, just 1, 5, 6, and 10. What do you think?
[11:09] <cjwatson> Why?
[11:09] <xnox> cjwatson: offer lvm instead
[11:09] <xnox> subject to benchmarking
[11:09] <cjwatson> The nearest equivalent to the status quo is to offer whatever the partman-lvm backend offers; I think we need a good reason not to do so.
[11:10] <xnox> ok
[11:10] <cjwatson> As in, I think you already have enough on your plate without making more work for yourself :-)
[11:10] <mpt> This suggestion prompted me to spend a couple of minutes talking about Postel's Law
[11:10] <mpt> s/spend/waste/
[11:11] <mpt> We'd still need to show RAID 0 as an option, in whatever GUI we come up with, if we're installing on an existing system that is already using RAID 0
[11:11] <cjwatson> Yes.
[11:13] <ogra_> hmm, ubiquity-dm startup seems to taker significantly longer since a few days
[11:13]  * ogra_ sees a tty for quite a while befoe X comes up
[11:14] <mpt> cjwatson, oh, and Keybuk wandered in and suggested that we add RAID 45.
[11:14]  * mpt starts drafting the one-sentence description of RAID for the dialog
[11:16] <cjwatson> I'm already concerned that this feature may not be ready in time, so I'm quite keen that we should take as much advantage of existing backend code as possible, and write as little new backend code as possible.
[11:18] <mpt> sure
[11:20] <cjwatson> Because it'll be a lot more fun for xnox if this lands in 12.10 :-)
[11:21] <mpt> "RAID copies data automatically across multiple disks, so that your data is still available if a disk fails."
[11:23] <mpt> "RAID copies data automatically across multiple disks, so that if a disk fails the data is still available."
[11:24] <xnox> mpt: It is a category of disk drives that employ two or more drives in combination for fault tolerance and performance.
[11:24] <xnox> too technical....
[11:24] <mpt> And synergy. Fault tolerance, performance, and synergy.
[11:24] <xnox> RAID is short for redundant array of independent (or inexpensive) disks.
[11:25] <mpt> Copy-paste from Wikipedia isn't really what I was going for
[11:26] <cjwatson> Perhaps "spreads" rather than "copies"?
[11:27] <mpt> "Spreads" sounds to me like there's only one copy
[11:28] <mpt> Spread butter across two bread slices instead of one, there's half as much on each
[11:28] <xnox> it's a big mac, you either get twice the consumption speed of tasteless hamburgers, or if you drop half on the floor, still enough to eat a whole one....
[11:30] <cjwatson> Mm
[11:31] <xnox> RAID = the next best thing after LVM
[11:31] <njin> hallo someone have notice of debian installer not detecting swap partition if encryption is selected ?
[11:31] <xnox> ps. LVM also does RAID....
[11:31] <cjwatson> Well, of course sometimes there is only half as much on each, although you probably don't want to get into that in a one-sentence description.
[11:34] <mpt> Where "sometimes" = RAID 0, right?
[11:34] <xnox> mpt: you are catching on ;-)
[11:34] <mpt> The description would have a higher value of accuracy/brevity without RAID 0, that's for sure
[11:35] <mpt> or accuracy/length, rather
[11:39] <mpt> "RAID copies data automatically across multiple disks, for faster disk use and protection against disk failure. RAID is not a backup system."
[12:57] <hippiehacker> Is there a suggested way to develop/test ubiquity-plugins? Is it possible to test outside of doing an actual install?
[12:57] <hippiehacker> particularly oem-config plugins
[13:19] <xnox> hippiehacker: virtualbox, pausing VM at the right point, taking a snapshot
[13:19] <xnox> then 1) revert to snapshot 2) change 3) run / test 4) rinse & repeat 1-4
[14:02] <CIA-7> ubiquity: dmitrij.ledkov * r5571 trunk/gui/gtk/ (stepPartCrypto.ui stepPartAsk.ui): New UI
[14:03] <xnox> this is not pushed
[14:03]  * xnox should use a different branch
[14:03] <xnox> sorry for the noise
[15:23] <hippiehacker> xnox: at what point to the plugins get loaded, and how would I go about changing them before the OOBE boot? (I've tried getting to vts to login, but ctr-alt-F1 doesn't seem to work in vbox)
[15:23] <xnox> hippiehacker: good question.
[15:24] <xnox> hippiehacker: you can shutdown / save when it's off. then modify the hard-disk image.
[15:24] <xnox> or you could boot into init=/bin/bash =)
[15:25] <xnox> i am not sure how oem-config works, I presume it auto-logs in, into oem-config user name and auto launches ubiquity..... but I might be completely wrong.
[15:36] <hippiehacker> xnox: I think you are right
[16:11] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: cjwatson * r1157 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog log-output.c):
[16:11] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: log-output: Always install a no-op SIGCHLD handler, in case the
[16:11] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: subsidiary process starts a daemon which does not fully disconnect its
[16:11] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: standard file descriptors (LP: #1021293). See also the changelog for
[16:11] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: 1.36ubuntu2.
[16:12] <stgraber> sounds like we'll need at least one more ubiquity upload for the point release then? (to refresh the included sources)
[16:12] <cjwatson> Yeah
[16:13] <cjwatson> God, that was a right nightmare to track down, though
[16:13] <cjwatson> 2GB strace log plus playing connect-the-dots with file descriptors ...
[16:14] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: cjwatson * r1158 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.91ubuntu2
[16:19] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: cjwatson * r1153 precise-proposed/ (debian/changelog log-output.c):
[16:19] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: log-output: Always install a no-op SIGCHLD handler, in case the
[16:19] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: subsidiary process starts a daemon which does not fully disconnect its
[16:19] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: standard file descriptors (LP: #1021293).
[16:19] <stgraber> aren't most installer bugs a nightmare to track down anyway? :) (though most don't require you going through a strace of the whole install)
[16:19] <cjwatson> Not usually that bad
[16:20] <cjwatson> The main problem was that it took ages because every test involved a big download
[16:20] <cjwatson> Probably should've used a proxy but IME I spend just as long debugging proxy problems :)
[16:20] <CIA-7> debian-installer-utils: cjwatson * r1154 precise-proposed/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.88ubuntu2.1
[16:20] <ogra_> stgraber, i guess it was way worse when there were no VMs :)
[16:21] <cjwatson> We managed somehow :)
[16:21] <stgraber> cjwatson: you really need a faster internet connection :)
[16:21] <cjwatson> Supposed to be getting FTTC soon
[16:22] <stgraber> sounds like a potential huge difference in internet speed (and stability?)
[16:22] <cjwatson> We'll see
[16:26] <cjwatson> stgraber: Should we stack up another ubiquity upload right away, or do we have time for another round?
[16:33] <stgraber> cjwatson: we should have time for another round. I'll make sure this one is fully tested by the time it reaches 7 days
[16:40] <cjwatson> Cool, thanks