[06:02] <sakhi> Morning
[06:17] <Kilos> morning all
[06:21] <Kilos> lo nuvolari 
[06:21] <Kilos> hi SmilyBorg 
[06:21] <SmilyBorg> Morning Kilos
[06:27] <Kerbero> oh my
[06:27] <Kerbero> hi kilos
[06:27] <Kerbero> dag smileyborg
[06:30] <SmilyBorg> Hi Kerbero
[06:43] <charl> good morning!
[06:43] <charl> Maaz: coffee on
[06:43]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[06:43] <charl> dirty mugs again... eish
[06:45] <not_found> morning charl 
[06:47] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl!
[06:48] <not_found> Morning Maaz 
[06:50] <charl> hi not_found 
[07:08] <Kilos> grrr power cut
[07:08] <Kilos> lo charl 
[07:09] <Kilos> hi not_found 
[07:09] <not_found> alo uncle Kilos 
[07:30] <charl> hi Kilos 
[08:00] <charl> Maaz: coffee on
[08:00]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[08:00] <charl> it's morning we need coffee
[08:00] <charl> ah no dirty cups this time... good to hear
[08:01]  * not_found is busy getting another cup of tea :)
[08:02] <not_found> Maaz, tea please
[08:02] <Maaz> As soon as the kettle boils I will pour boiling water into your cup if you have the tea bag in already
[08:02] <not_found> thanks Maaz 
[08:02] <not_found> not as talkative as he was in the past...
[08:04] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl!
[08:05] <charl> Maaz: thanks
[08:05] <Maaz> charl: No problem
[09:19] <Kilos> yo sflr hows ya
[09:19] <Kilos> oh my
[09:19] <Kilos> o there he is
[09:19] <sflr> morning guys!
[09:19] <sflr> hey Kilos 
[09:27] <charl> morning sflr
[09:28] <sflr> hi charl!
[09:29] <sflr> hmm.. i need to boot into windows after 3 months on ubuntu. lol
[09:30] <charl> how so?
[09:30] <Kilos> aw shame
[09:30] <charl> windows-only applications?
[09:31] <sflr> need some link, username, password. haha
[09:31] <charl> i used to run dual boot for years only for the occasion i needed to use skype
[09:31] <charl> at the time i couldn't get skype working on ubuntu (this was a long time ago)
[09:31] <charl> ah i see, now that's not so bad :P
[09:31] <sflr> charl: I do miss Picasa on ubuntu
[09:31] <sflr> Skype working great now. plus G+ Hangouts
[09:31] <Squirm> (Squirm) Ok, im running f16 with 8gb of ram on an ecs h61h2-m2. My problem now, is after a power cut(electricity just dies), when i next try and boot, after grub i get cpu1 not responding, cpu2 not responding, cpu3 not responding. This is the 3rd time its happened. The first time, after resetting the bios a few times and some fiddling, i sent the motherboard back and they replaced it with the same model. Everything worked, 2nd time, a bios reset d
[09:32] <tonberryE352> irc cut you off after " 2nd time, a bios reset d"
[09:35]  * sflr will bbl
[10:16] <inetpro> eish!
[10:16] <Kilos> wat nou
[10:16] <inetpro> just when I bragged about the Dell E6220 having no issues one pops up after the latest kernel update
[10:17] <Kilos> uh oh
[10:17] <inetpro> suddenly it doesn't pick up my large monitor any more and I'm back to a yucky display after a reboot
[10:18] <Kilos> you are right ...EISH
[10:18] <Kilos> whats that dell thing a lappy?
[10:19] <tumbleweed> that's a certified device, you should raise a bug report, I'm sure the certification team would be interested to know that they missed it http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/desktop/models/?query=e6220
[10:19] <inetpro> Kilos: yep
[10:19] <inetpro> thanks tumbleweed, I was hoping that you'd chime in
[10:19] <Kilos> there you go inetpro 
[10:20] <tumbleweed> mention the word regression in the report
[10:20] <inetpro> ok, now I forgot how to start again
[10:20] <Kilos> next time you update it wont have the prob anymore
[10:21] <tumbleweed> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[10:21] <Kilos> haha ballie
[10:21] <inetpro> tumbleweed: tks
[10:21] <Kilos> tumbleweed, is ibid good in 12.04
[10:22] <Kilos> soon i will go 12.04
[10:22] <inetpro> tumbleweed: please explain regression for me
[10:22] <tumbleweed> Kilos: hopefully
[10:22] <tumbleweed> inetpro: it's a regression, because it was working fine until you installed a stable kernel update
[10:23] <inetpro> ahh
[10:23] <tumbleweed> those aren't supposed to break anything, any breakage is a regression, and treated fairly seriously
[10:23] <tumbleweed> regression as in "things get worse"
[10:23] <inetpro> thanks
[10:27] <inetpro> tumbleweed: what would be the specific package at fault in my case?
[10:27] <inetpro> for running ubuntu-bug against
[10:27] <tumbleweed> you said it was a kernel update?
[10:28] <tumbleweed> so the package is linux
[10:28] <inetpro> in fact I have kubuntu, do I still run ubuntu-bug?
[10:28] <tumbleweed> yes
[10:28] <inetpro> tumbleweed: cool
[10:30] <tumbleweed> as far as I knew, the QA team tested new kernels on all the machines in the QA labs before they got published. I'd assume tehy have all certified machiens in their labs
[10:31] <inetpro> eish! "Cannot connect to crash databa..."
[10:31] <inetpro> Got to run this again with http_proxy settings
[10:31] <tumbleweed> https_proxy too, probably
[10:33] <inetpro> hmm... it really doesn't like me today
[10:33] <inetpro> Application: Apport KDE (python2.7), signal: Aborted
[10:33] <inetpro> Using host libthread_db library "/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libthread_db.so.1".
[10:34] <inetpro> [Current thread is 1 (Thread 0xb7375b00 (LWP 3401))]
[10:34] <tumbleweed> looks kind of like this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/957438
[10:35] <inetpro> guess I shall have to connect directly to the net and not via proxy
[10:36] <tumbleweed> you can also try unsetting DISPLAY, before calling it, to run it in text-only mode
[10:37] <inetpro> tumbleweed: LWP tells me that it's something with the connection to the crash database
[10:37] <inetpro> I'll try unsetting DISPLAY
[10:37] <tumbleweed> not necessarily. LWP = light weight thread
[10:39] <tumbleweed> I maen light weight process, which = thread
[10:44] <inetpro> tumbleweed: unsetting DISPLAY worked like a charm
[10:44] <inetpro> busy trying to write up further info
[10:45] <inetpro> Summary: Regression of display environment on Dell Latitude E6220 after installing latest kernel
[10:45] <inetpro> tumbleweed: ^^ that ok?
[10:45] <tumbleweed> no, the summary should say exactly what's wrong
[10:47] <inetpro> hmm...
[10:48] <inetpro> well here's my what happened
[10:48] <inetpro> After installing the latest updates which included kernel updates and requiring a reboot I only get a resolution of 1024x768 on a Dell 19" Monitor when I've had much higher resolution without any problems for a long time.
[10:50] <tumbleweed> as in "Not getting native resolution on external monitor after installing kernel update"
[10:50] <tumbleweed> then give the full story in the body
[10:51] <inetpro> ok
[10:54]  * inetpro is feeling a migraine building up inside
[10:56] <Kilos> eish
[10:58] <inetpro> tumbleweed: bug 1028379
[11:00] <tumbleweed> New → Confirmed 19 seconds ago
[11:00] <tumbleweed> by a kernel team guy
[11:00] <inetpro> wow
[11:07] <inetpro> got the mail... confirmed by Brad Figg from Portland, Oregon
[11:08] <inetpro> tumbleweed: so does that mean they know about an issue there?
[11:11] <tumbleweed> actually, he runs a bot across all kernel bugs
[11:11] <tumbleweed> I didn't know that it confirmed them too, but clearly it does. Don't know what the criteria for confirming is, there
[11:15] <inetpro> hmm... now I really don't get this
[11:15] <inetpro> suddenly after a third reboot everything is back to normal
[11:15] <Kilos> be thankfull
[11:16] <inetpro> Kilos: that's not normal
[11:16] <tumbleweed> sometimes graphics cards boot in odd states
[11:16] <Kilos> tell brtad to reboot 3 times too
[11:16] <tumbleweed> try a few more times, if it doesn't happen, close the bug
[11:16] <Kilos> yo magespawn 
[11:16] <tumbleweed> my MacBook boots up with crazy graphics 3 out of every 4 times
[11:16] <inetpro> but I must say I pressed ESC twice during the boot process to get rid of the splash screen
[11:16] <tumbleweed> it's certainly not linux's fault, because it's crazy in the bootloader too
[11:17] <magespawn> Hi Kilos, tumbleweed, inetpro
[11:18]  * inetpro thought of booting to the old kernel but somehow missed the grub menu
[11:18] <inetpro> heh magespawn
[11:18]  * magespawn waves hi to the lurkers in the room o/
[11:18] <Kilos> lol
[11:19] <Kilos> like yusuf 
[11:19] <Kilos> was just sitting pondering if ive ever seen him chatting
[11:19] <Kilos> hey yusuf 
[11:20] <magespawn> I think I have seen him once or twice.
[11:20] <Kilos> oh
[11:24] <magespawn> how would you do a clean install on a headless server?
[11:24] <Kilos> crazy nick MRpunk
[11:25] <Kilos> whats headless magespawn 
[11:26] <magespawn> one with no inputs on it, so no monitor or keyboard, or mouse (lol)
[11:26] <Kilos> remotely
[11:27] <Kilos> can you see it from another pc
[11:27] <magespawn> well networked, because the machine is sitting right net to me
[11:27] <magespawn> net
[11:27] <magespawn> next
[11:27] <magespawn> i can ssh to it.
[11:28] <Kilos> so cant your main one see whats happening when you put a cd in the server
[11:28] <Kilos> like as in the boot menu of the cd
[11:28] <magespawn> no cd drive in the server. but I can use a live usb
[11:29] <Kilos> server has no cdrom but got usb ports
[11:29] <Kilos> ?
[11:29] <magespawn> yes
[11:29] <Kilos> sjoe
[11:29] <Kilos> how will you setup the server to boot from usb then
[11:30] <magespawn> I figured I would not need a cdrom. I can put one in, but I wanted to see if it was possible to do it over a network
[11:30] <Kilos> put a screen and keyboard on it
[11:30] <magespawn> that you can set in the bios as it boots but with no screen or keyboard
[11:31] <magespawn> it becomes a bit difficult
[11:31] <Kilos> well i main pc can see what should be on server screen then you should be able to see server boot to usb
[11:32] <Kilos> if
[11:32] <magespawn> ahh but once the install start you are going to lose the connection then how do you see what is going on until the install is done.
[11:32] <Kilos> as in with vnc or something
[11:32] <Kilos> i dunno you supposed to be teaching me
[11:33] <magespawn> this is not something I have done before.
[11:33] <Kilos> whats google say
[11:33] <Kilos> i go ask maaz
[11:33] <magespawn> I was being lazy
[11:34] <Kilos> http://askubuntu.com/questions/8539/clean-install-of-ubuntu-server-over-the-network
[11:35] <Kilos> http://askubuntu.com/questions/13106/how-can-i-install-ubuntu-on-a-headless-machine
[11:35] <Kilos> magespawn, ^^
[11:36] <magespawn> ty Kilos will take a gander
[11:37] <Kilos> yw
[11:37] <Kilos> hope one works
[11:37] <magespawn> I am sure one will work
[11:39] <Kilos> which one
[11:39] <Kilos> i gonna ask you how to next
[11:41] <Kilos> i hate googling but maaz does a great job only 4 or so links at a time
[11:47] <magespawn> actually looks like a release upgrade will be the easiest way to do it
[11:48] <Kilos> i think thats what fly does
[11:49] <Kilos> yo sakhi tonberryE352 
[11:49] <tonberryE352> hello
[11:49] <sakhi> hey Kilos 
[11:51] <Kilos> i wonder why this channel doesnt grow
[11:51] <Kilos> only at meetings we got some more
[11:51] <Kilos> Superhuman_, hows things
[11:59] <magespawn> The instructions say to put the ks.cfg file in the root of the drive and then modify the kernal boot parameters like so ks=cdrom:/path/to/ks.cfg, What would I use if I am booting from USB?
[12:00] <Kilos> sjoe
[12:00] <Kilos> inetpro, ^^
[12:01] <magespawn> maybe something like "ks=usb: /dev/sdb/ks.cfg"
[12:01] <Kilos> aw he has a migraine coming on. sorry goosie
[12:01] <Kilos> usb0
[12:01] <magespawn> I would have to make sure the machine sees the usb as a boot device
[12:02] <Kilos> first see what port the usb is
[12:02] <magespawn> you guys chatting in ##kilos?
[12:02] <Kilos> its open
[12:03] <Kilos> hes been having probs after an update and getting migraine
[12:03] <magespawn> nah is okay. just did not see anything happen here, thought I missed something.
[12:03] <Kilos> na
[12:03] <Kilos> even qp is asleep still
[12:26] <magespawn> Kilos to do alts upgrade I used the following command do-release-upgrade -d. The -d forces an upgrade, before the 12.04.1 is released.
[12:27] <Kilos> oh you not going 12.04?
[12:28] <Kilos> oh sorry
[12:28] <Kilos> 12.04.1
[12:29] <Kilos> i dont read good
[12:29] <Kilos> everyone always moans
[12:29] <magespawn> yes i am, do-release-upgrade waits until they release the .1 version
[12:29] <Kilos> aha ty
[12:29] <magespawn> makes for interesting conversation anyway
[12:29] <Kilos> but i wont do it that way, too much data
[12:30] <magespawn> true
[12:30] <Kilos> will use cds
[12:30] <Kilos> then update as and when
[12:30] <magespawn> you can use flash drives too. I find that works better than cds.
[12:31] <Kilos> not if you gotta download the iso
[12:31] <Kilos> and this pc cant boot from usb
[12:31] <Kilos> will see when got nother one going
[12:36] <Kilos> yo trixie
[12:36] <Kilos> Trixar_za, 
[12:36] <Trixar_za> Hey Kilos
[13:27] <magespawn> Kilos I think you can download the mirror to an external hard drive and upgrade your machine from there.
[13:28] <magespawn> here goes the upgrade of the server
[13:28] <magespawn> apparently it will take about 53 mins to get all the software
[13:29] <Kilos> 40 gigs?
[13:30] <magespawn> no just the 380 odd needed for my upgrade
[13:30] <magespawn> mb
[13:30] <Kilos> ah thats good
[13:34] <Kilos> so is 12.04.1 out magespawn 
[13:34] <magespawn> no do not think so, that is why i had to use -d
[13:35] <Kilos> i mean upgraded already
[13:35] <Kilos> i thought still a few months to go
[13:35] <Kilos> so what you upgrading from
[13:36] <magespawn> 10.04
[13:36] <Kilos> aha
[13:37] <Kilos> you lucky its so little
[13:37] <Kilos> i thought it would be about a gig
[13:37] <magespawn> did keep the system fairly up to date anyways
[13:39] <Kilos> that seems the answer then to upgrade from lts to lts
[13:40] <magespawn> i like to stick with the lts versions, less problems usually.
[13:41] <Kilos> im glad i went from 10.04 to 10.10 though. maverick has been great
[13:44] <magespawn> just reading up on password cracking
[13:45] <Kilos> but gonna give unity a good go as it seems to be the way forward
[13:45] <magespawn> it is quite nice
[13:45] <Kilos> with suse and fedora and then going unity too
[13:45] <Kilos> there are crackers in synaptic
[13:46] <Kilos> what you read and where
[13:46] <magespawn> hold on on the other pc
[13:47] <magespawn> lastbit.com/pswcalc.asp
[13:47] <magespawn> this is a calculator that shows how long it will take if you have to brute force a password based on your input
[13:48] <Kilos> on your own pc you mean not a windows thing
[13:49] <magespawn> password length 16 characters, mixed lower case, upper case and punctuation at 500,000 passwrods per second = 509 440 345 384 9301 years
[13:50] <Kilos> hahaha
[13:50] <magespawn> wireless networks or any password protected file etc
[13:51] <Kilos> aw my password is only 13 characters
[13:51] <magespawn> that windows thing does not crack the password it simple re writes the password file.
[13:51] <Kilos> ya lol
[13:51] <magespawn> mixed characters?
[13:51] <Kilos> yip
[13:51] <Squirm> lol, because I reset my bios, my time change:  offset 19904330.370724 sec
[13:52] <magespawn> yours = 194 336 069 26 years.
[13:52] <Kilos> upper case numbers 4 upper case and lower case letters 5 the numbers
[13:52] <Kilos> 4
[13:53] <magespawn> of course this does assume that you are only using brute force
[13:53] <tonberryE352> correct horse batter staple
[13:53] <tonberryE352> :P
[13:53] <tonberryE352> battery*
[13:54] <Squirm> Maaz: 19904330.370724/60
[13:54] <Maaz> Squirm: 331738.839512
[13:54] <magespawn> if your password is actual words that make sense eg "IwentTOtheZooONMondaythe13ofMay", they would get it a lot quicker.
[13:54] <Squirm> Maaz: 331738.839512/60
[13:54] <Maaz> Squirm: 5528.98065853
[13:54] <Kilos> i dunno about vista and win 7 but xp you can go in as root while booting and change password
[13:54] <Squirm> Maaz: 5528.98065853/24
[13:54] <Maaz> Squirm: 230.374194105
[13:54] <magespawn> you can with the other two as well
[13:54] <Squirm> 230.374194105/4
[13:55] <Squirm> Maaz: 230.374194105/4
[13:55] <Maaz> Squirm: 57.5935485262
[13:55] <Squirm> 57 months
[13:55] <Squirm> :P
[13:55] <Squirm> meh
[13:55] <Squirm> that was wrong
[13:55] <magespawn> Squirm what are you doing?
[13:55] <Squirm> lol
[13:55] <Kilos> yeah what?
[13:55] <Kilos> how come maaz answers that
[13:55] <Squirm> calculating my offset in months, the long way
[13:55] <Squirm> :P
[13:57] <Kilos> what offset Squirm 
[13:59] <Squirm> .:Squirm:. lol, because I reset my bios, my time change:  offset 19904330.370724 sec
[13:59] <Kilos> is maaz deducting the first from the second
[14:00] <magespawn> Squirm, is asking Maaz to the maths from seconds to months conversion
[14:00] <Squirm> Maaz: 19904330.370724/60/60/24
[14:00] <Maaz> Squirm: 230.374194106
[14:00] <Squirm> 230days
[14:00] <Kilos> oh my
[14:00] <magespawn> but what is that offset measuring?
[14:01] <magespawn> offset from what?
[14:01] <Kilos> whats the 60's
[14:01] <Squirm> I ran ntpdate
[14:01] <magespawn> i see
[14:02] <Kilos> Brute Force Attack will take up to 12861917392 years
[14:02] <Kilos> You should have bought a password manager! :-)
[14:02] <Kilos> hahaha
[14:03] <Squirm> lol
[14:03] <Squirm> Kilos: what are you looking to do?
[14:03] <magespawn> then ppl like Linked in go and store it in a unencrypted database so making it waste of time anyway 
[14:03] <magespawn> for you and the cracker
[14:04] <Kilos> looking how secure my password is Squirm 
[14:04] <Squirm> use a better encryption and more complicated, randomely generated passwords :P
[14:05] <magespawn> tell it to use the full ASCII set 
[14:05] <Squirm> Kilos: run this
[14:05] <Kilos> no man one good strong password that you make part of your life and use for everything
[14:05] <Squirm> head -c 500 /dev/urandom | tr -dc 'a-zA-Z0-9' | fold -w 10 | head -n 1
[14:06] <Squirm> where the -w 10 is the length of your password
[14:06] <Squirm> I use that to generate a random, temporary file name
[14:14] <Squirm> 0o
[14:14] <Kilos> eish second power cut today\
[14:15] <Kilos> this one hurt my maverick, even terminal takes a while to open
[14:15] <Squirm> Kilos
[14:15] <Squirm> the powercut today
[14:15] <Squirm> broke my motherboard
[14:15] <Squirm> or hdd
[14:15] <Squirm> I just got it booting now
[14:15] <Kilos> eish
[14:15] <Squirm> been down since 9:30
[14:15] <Squirm> but it booted with a lot of errors
[14:16] <Kilos> bad news all these cuts without warning
[14:16] <Kilos> you need to run fsck
[14:16] <Squirm> yep
[14:16] <Squirm> did
[14:16] <Kilos> or recovery on booting
[14:16] <Squirm> 3rd time this has happened
[14:16] <Kilos> sucks hey
[14:17] <Kilos> whats that output from that thing i ran Squirm 
[14:18] <Kilos> SWN9LE8yl2Zpv
[14:18] <Squirm> random
[14:18] <Kilos> how you gonna remember that
[14:18] <Squirm> :P
[14:19] <Squirm> I remember a random 6 digit password
[14:19] <Squirm> change the -w 10 to a -w 6 to get 6 digits
[14:19] <Kilos> na better to use numbers and words that have some meaning to you
[14:20] <Kilos> then upper and lower case some of them
[14:23] <Kilos> as in 1234Squirm!@#$
[14:23] <magespawn> 14 mins till serve upgrade
[14:23] <Banlam> the hard part comes remembering which passwords are uppercased and which aren't
[14:23] <Kilos> yay magespawn thats quick
[14:24] <Kilos> lol @ Banlam 
[14:30] <magespawn> I am off home later all.
[14:30] <Kilos> cheers magespawn 
[14:42] <Kilos> go home safe all of you
[14:42] <Kilos> bbl
[16:53] <nuvolari> o/
[16:53] <nuvolari> hello everyone
[16:53] <Cantide> hello ^-^
[16:58] <nuvolari> lo Cantide! How're you?
[16:59] <Cantide> I am well :)
[16:59] <Cantide> and you?
[17:03] <nuvolari> doing good thank you
[17:04] <Cantide> :)
[17:16]  * nuvolari drops a pin
[17:19]  * Cantide tries not to step on it
[17:30] <Kilos> yo Cantide evening all
[17:31] <Cantide> hey Kilos :p
[18:02] <Kilos> haha good lad
[18:25] <George__> Hi Ubuntu Loco guys
[18:25] <Kilos> hi George__ 
[18:27] <Kilos> lo nuvolari 
[18:27] <George__> Does the loco team have any meetings other than on IRC? Like a regular LUG?
[18:28] <Banlam> George__, where are you located?
[18:30] <George__> Centurion, Gauteng
[18:31] <inetpro> good evening
[18:31] <Banlam> I think there are occasional Ubuntu Hours in the area
[18:32] <Banlam> I wonder where queery is
[18:32] <Banlam> I think he's also around there
[18:32] <Kilos> hi inetpro 
[18:32]  * inetpro feels a lot better than this afternoon 
[18:32] <Kilos> head bad inetpro ?
[18:32] <inetpro> will try to limit the time in front of the screen though
[18:32] <Kilos> queisnt on tonight
[18:33] <Kilos> queery
[18:33] <Kilos> George__, are you on the mailing list
[18:33] <George__> Nope, should probably subscribe eh?
[18:33] <Kilos> ubuntu-za@lists.ubuntu.com
[18:34] <inetpro> George__: we're not really a LUG but there are other meetings like release parties, Ubuntu Hours, etc
[18:34] <inetpro> all depends on members arranging it themselves
[18:34] <Kilos> leave your query there and one of the gauteng guys will reply
[18:35] <George__> Cool :) Thanks 
[18:35] <inetpro> nothing as scheduled as our monthly meetings here on IRC
[18:36] <inetpro> thing is that we have many members from diverse physical locations around the country
[18:36] <inetpro> IRC is still the most efficient for having our meetings
[18:38] <George__> Makes sense :D
[18:38] <Kilos> George__, you must visit here more often and try attend our meetings. always nice to have new faces around
[18:38] <inetpro> Maaz: tell charl he should look at "Skype jumps the shark: Seven alternative VoIP services" http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/skype-jumps-the-shark-seven-alternative-voip-services/2488
[18:38] <Maaz> inetpro: Sure, I'll tell Charl on freenode
[18:39] <Kilos> or even lurk here everyday
[18:40] <George__> Kilos: I'll try to hang out here more often
[18:40] <inetpro> George__: how long have you been using Ubuntu?
[18:40] <Kilos> great always welcome
[18:41] <Kilos> you here with your browser?
[18:41] <George__> inetpro: Been using linux for about 5 years and Ubuntu since Jan this year. Was using Suse before Ubuntu
[18:41] <inetpro> great!
[18:41] <George__> Kilos: Jip not really clued up with IRC, do I need a client?
[18:42] <inetpro> George__: try connecting with a proper client 
[18:42] <inetpro> like xchat
[18:42] <Kilos> George__, install xchat
[18:42] <Kilos> hehe
[18:42] <inetpro> or quassel
[18:42] <George__> I'll install xchat... or quassel
[18:42] <Kilos> he isnt on kubuntu
[18:42] <inetpro> or even pidgin if you have to
[18:42] <inetpro> or irssi
[18:42] <inetpro> if you like the cli
[18:42] <inetpro> many choices
[18:43] <Kilos> xchat rocks just dont use xchat-gnome
[18:43] <George__> Think I'll go with xchat for now
[18:43] <Kilos> sudo apt-get install xchat
[18:43] <George__> Thanks Kilos
[18:43] <Kilos> yw
[18:44] <Kilos> inetpro, xchat rocks
[18:44] <inetpro> Kilos: sure
[18:44] <Kilos> just that little bit better than quassel and konversation
[18:44] <inetpro> haha
[18:44] <Kilos> hehe
[18:45] <Kilos> i have a great internet connection tonight
[18:46] <Kilos> took 1 day short of a month
[18:46] <Kilos> that was quick GeorgeSteven 
[18:46] <GeorgeSteven> OK I'm on with xchat
[18:47] <GeorgeSteven> :D
[18:48] <Kilos> you can go settings preferences and make it beep when your nick is mentioned
[18:48] <Kilos> alerts i think its called
[18:50] <GeorgeSteven> Kilos: thanks found it!
[18:51] <Kilos> takes some trial and error to get everything setup to your liking but worth the trouble
[18:52] <Kilos> inetpro, you still using unity?
[18:55] <Kilos> hey magespawn 
[18:56] <magespawn> hi Kilos
[18:56] <inetpro> Kilos: no
[18:56] <Kilos> well inetpro dont forget all the how tos hey
[18:57] <inetpro> Kilos: how tos?
[18:57] <Banlam> how to
[18:57] <Kilos> yeah man all the things im gonna need help with
[18:57] <Banlam> the plural
[18:57] <Kilos> sorry to's
[18:58] <Banlam> well
[18:58] <Banlam> no
[18:58] <inetpro> lol
[18:58] <Banlam> an apostrophe is defnitely wrong
[18:58] <Banlam> it's a difficult thing to pluralise
[18:58] <Kilos> isnt to's more than one to
[18:58] <Banlam> definitely not!
[18:58] <inetpro> Kilos: I just wondering what hot to stuffs that you are referring to
[18:58] <Kilos> lol
[18:59] <Banlam> an apostrophe implies possesion or an abbreviation
[18:59]  * inetpro clearly not on the same wavelength 
[18:59] <Kilos> anyway the message has got through
[18:59] <inetpro> how to stuffs*
[18:59] <Banlam> how to tutorials
[18:59] <Kilos> not belonging to as well
[18:59] <CanStudy> >_<
[18:59] <CanStudy> tos would be correct in this case
[18:59] <Kilos> ill just say help
[19:00]  * CanStudy goes back to studying
[19:00] <Banlam> just confusing
[19:00] <Banlam> :)
[19:00] <magespawn> well not good English though
[19:00] <CanStudy> The dos and don'ts of English grammar .-.
[19:00] <Kilos> unity doesnt have top and bottom panels hey?
[19:01] <Kilos> what about multiple workspaces?
[19:01] <inetpro> Kilos: ahh, you mean I should remeber how to help with Unity?
[19:01] <inetpro> remember*
[19:01] <Kilos> yes please inetpro 
[19:01] <Kilos> sjoe that took a while
[19:01] <inetpro> lol
[19:01] <Kilos> head still sore inetpro ?
[19:02] <inetpro> Kilos: there's more than enough peeps around using it
[19:02] <Kilos> im bang to leave maverick
[19:02] <inetpro> and it's getting easier with each release
[19:02] <CanStudy> i want my launcher to stack apps of the same type - basically the same as a nested menu -.-v
[19:03] <inetpro> the guys building the stuff are putting a lot of effort into usability studies
[19:03] <CanStudy> where can we go if we want to submit requests or suggestions?
[19:03] <Kilos> i think the ubuntu guys are going to put even more in now with others using unity
[19:04] <Kilos> CanStudy, talk to tumbles
[19:04] <inetpro> they even take guys from the streets who have never used computers before and they study how long they take to get going
[19:04]  * CanStudy tumbles down a rabbit hole
[19:04] <inetpro> CanStudy: gaan studeer!
[19:04] <CanStudy> ja ja!
[19:04] <CanStudy> ek sal, nou nou!
[19:04] <inetpro> :-)
[19:04] <Kilos> no man CanStudy tumbleweed
[19:05] <Kilos> haha
[19:05] <CanStudy> Kilos, I figured that out after looking at the nick list :p
[19:05] <Kilos> lol
[19:05] <tumbleweed> hello?
[19:05] <Kilos> he is on the dev team
[19:05] <Kilos> CanStudy, talk to him
[19:05] <CanStudy> umm
[19:06] <Kilos> hi tumbleweed 
[19:06] <Cantide> tumbleweed, gripes about unity?
[19:06]  * tumbleweed sees discussion about unity stuff
[19:06] <tumbleweed> that's not anything that I have anything to do with
[19:06] <Cantide> well, the launcher in particular
[19:06] <Cantide> tumbleweed, then i've been misled :p
[19:06] <tumbleweed> I know there are lists where design ideas are discussed with anyone who is interested
[19:06] <inetpro> tumbleweed: I think Kilos thought that you were CanStudy
[19:07] <inetpro> Kilos: am I right?
[19:07] <tumbleweed> but I also know that they really don't want people just coming and griping with them :)
[19:07] <tumbleweed> because they want to make progress rather than have arguments with people that hate change
[19:07] <Kilos> nope i was hoping tumbleweed could point him in the right dirtection
[19:07] <Kilos> direction
[19:07] <inetpro> ahh
[19:07] <tumbleweed> http://unity.ubuntu.com/contact-us/
[19:08]  * Cantide gripes
[19:08] <Cantide> thanks, tumbleweed :)
[19:08] <tumbleweed> np
[19:08] <Cantide> i'd need to prepare some images before proposing ideas
[19:08] <Cantide> actually, i don't really have solutions, but i have problems
[19:09] <inetpro> eish
[19:09] <Kilos> lol
[19:09] <Cantide> :p
[19:09] <Cantide> i have one solution though ( that works for me anyway )
[19:09] <Cantide> oh, #ubuntu-unity ... hmmm
[19:10] <tumbleweed> I suggest lurking before proposing anything, anyway
[19:10] <inetpro> I must admit that I can see a lot of good progress with Unity
[19:10] <Cantide> of course
[19:10] <tumbleweed> it's usually helpful to get a feel for how things are discussed, and get to know who to listen to
[19:10] <Cantide> and i'm sure a million other people have already said what i would like to say
[19:10] <inetpro> and I can see that there's still a long road ahead
[19:10] <GeorgeSteven> Good night everyone. Thanks for the help tonight. Hope to lurk around again soon :D
[19:10] <inetpro> GeorgeSteven: you're welcome
[19:11] <Cantide> good night, GeorgeSteven 'o'
[19:11] <Kilos> night GeorgeSteven anytime
[19:11] <tumbleweed> generally the way to get things done is to be prepared to do some work yourself
[19:11] <tumbleweed> people rally behind good ideas that have started happening
[19:12] <inetpro> tumbleweed: you can say that again
[19:12] <Kilos> does keeping maaz busy count?
[19:13] <inetpro> and then there's enough room for joining other teams with other ideas
[19:13] <inetpro> but there's nothing wrong with voicing your opinions
[19:14] <inetpro> obviously if it's within reason
[19:15] <Kilos> i think most of the anti unity is from gnome2 working so well
[19:15] <Kilos> and folks getting used to it
[19:16] <Cantide> i've gotten a little used to Unity, but it has some flaws that seriously impact my efficiency
[19:16] <Kilos> so im willing to give unity a good go with some help from my friends
[19:16] <Kilos> wb magespawn 
[19:16] <inetpro> Kilos: gnome2 has a lot of flaws that needed fixing for a long time
[19:16] <inetpro> has had a lot of flaws*
[19:16] <Cantide> and those all have to do with the lack of the nested menu, and the lack of the panel at the bottom
[19:17] <magespawn> ty Kilos
[19:17] <magespawn> still learning seamonkey
[19:17] <Kilos> yip i noticed up to maverick but then got nice and stable
[19:17] <Cantide> and also the way the launcher behaves when you have too many icons there
[19:17] <Kilos> Cantide, wait some
[19:18] <Kilos> Maaz, unity guide
[19:18] <Maaz> http://ubuntu-za.org/news/2012/06/21/unity-orientation-guide-ubuntu-1204-lts
[19:18] <Cantide> Kilos, yes, but perhaps pointing them out might help to have them corrected sooner
[19:18] <nuvolari> o/
[19:18] <nuvolari> hi oom Kilos 
[19:18] <Kilos> Cantide, ^^
[19:18] <nuvolari> het oom 'n lekker dag gehad?
[19:18] <nuvolari> hi magespawn 
[19:18]  * Cantide clicks
[19:18] <Kilos> ya dankie seun
[19:18] <Kilos> en jy
[19:18] <nuvolari> laaang dag danakie :P
[19:18] <nuvolari> *nadkie
[19:19] <nuvolari> *dankie 
[19:19] <nuvolari> sjoe
[19:19] <Kilos> lol lyk so
[19:19] <nuvolari> bleh
[19:19] <nuvolari> my bed roep
[19:20] <Kilos> jou vriend het nie gepos nie seun, het jy die regte adres gegeee
[19:20] <nuvolari> oom moet lekker slaap
[19:20] <Kilos> jy ook nuvolari 
[19:20] <nuvolari> hmm, ek het ja oom
[19:20] <Kilos> more is nog n dag
[19:20] <nuvolari> hy sal seker nog met oom kontak
[19:20] <Kilos> ok dankie
[19:20] <Kilos> lekker slaap
[19:20] <nuvolari> hy het oom se besonderhede gevra, so ek reken nie hy gaan niks daarmee doen nie :P
[19:21] <nuvolari> dankie oom
[19:21] <nuvolari> g'night everyone
[19:22] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[19:22]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[19:22] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee for all
[19:22] <Maaz> Come on ya buncha geeks. Rock up with your mugs with the correct amount of sugar added already
[19:23] <Cantide> that unity guide is more like a 'welcome to ubuntu (in general) with unity'
[19:23] <Kilos> inetpro, koffie!
[19:23] <Cantide> doesn't touch on the way unity itself works
[19:23] <Kilos> you read the whole thing already Cantide 
[19:23] <Cantide> or differences in usability between it and gnome 2.x, and how unity addresses those differences
[19:23] <inetpro> Maaz: coffee please
[19:23] <Maaz> inetpro: Alrighty
[19:24] <Cantide> Kilos, i read the parts about the launcher, as that is my biggest gripe :p
[19:24] <Cantide> also, a lot of that is not specifically about unity, but more about apps and other stuff
[19:24] <Kilos> methinks better not to gripe but to make suggestions on how to improve things
[19:24] <Cantide> of course
[19:24] <Cantide> but it has to start with a gripe :p
[19:25] <Kilos> lol
[19:25] <Cantide> had i not a gripe, i would be happy with it and not want it changed
[19:25] <Kilos> go study
[19:25] <Cantide> the fact that it doesn't work quite how i want it to is a good thing - it means i can raise my concerns and help improve it ( i hope )
[19:25] <Kilos> yip
[19:26] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and inetpro!
[19:26] <Cantide> i think i need to write something up and submit it to them
[19:26] <Kilos> Maaz, danke
[19:26] <Maaz> Bitteschön
[19:26] <inetpro> Cantide: as long as it is raised in the correct forums
[19:26] <inetpro> Maaz: ty
[19:26] <Maaz> You are welcome inetpro
[19:26] <Cantide> Maaz ist ein Deutscher?
[19:26] <Maaz> Cantide: Excuse me?
[19:26] <Cantide> Maaz, kannst du Deutsch sprechen?
[19:26] <Maaz> Cantide: Huh?
[19:26] <inetpro> Cantide: nein
[19:26] <Cantide> nope
[19:26] <Cantide> ja, ich weiss
[19:26] <inetpro> :-)
[19:26] <Cantide> strange bot :p
[19:27] <Kilos> clever bot
[19:27] <Kilos> i love maaz
[19:27] <Cantide> well, he used the umlaut correctly, i'll give him that :p
[19:27] <Kilos> hehe
[19:27] <inetpro> Cantide: du kannst ihn aber immer Deutsch lehren
[19:27] <Cantide> inetpro, i'll need to find the correct forums first
[19:28] <Cantide> inetpro, ich hab kein Zeit ._.
[19:28] <Cantide> kein, keine?
[19:28] <Kilos> doesnt that link get you to the right place
[19:28] <Cantide> heh, even my German grammar is broken :p
[19:28] <Cantide> Kilos, i suppose so :p
[19:28] <Cantide> let's hope i still have the link once i have compiled something
[19:28] <Kilos> save it to a file on desktop man
[19:29] <Kilos> then go study
[19:29] <Cantide> haha
[19:29] <Cantide> yes, sir!
[19:29] <Kilos> lol
[19:29] <Cantide> my desktop is clean :3
[19:29] <Kilos> then you wont lose it
[19:30] <Cantide> good point :p
[19:30] <Cantide> i
[19:30] <Cantide> i'll bookmark it :)
[19:30] <Kilos> i go sleep too now. night everyone
[19:30] <Kilos> sleep tight
[19:31] <Cantide> night~
[19:31] <Kilos> nag inetpro 
[19:44] <magespawn> night all