[00:20] <TheMuso> I am starting to hate the new nautilus.
[00:20] <TheMuso> I want my keyboard shortcut accessible menus back.
[00:34] <kenvandine> TheMuso, yeah i thought i liked the new nautilus but have changed my mind
[00:38] <TheMuso> How are people going to know that all the various menu bits that they want are available by clicking the gear icon. Intuativenot IMO.
[01:08] <jbicha> TheMuso: wow I didn't realize that gear menu thing wasn't really keyboard accessible :(
[01:09] <jbicha> those embedded Edit & View menus are pretty horrible too
[01:11] <RAOF> Oh, wow.
[01:11] <RAOF> Yes.
[01:11] <RAOF> You know, there is actually a reason that menu bars exist :/
[01:12] <jbicha> epiphany's is a bit better because there aren't as many options (& they can kinda follow what Chrome has done)
[01:15] <RAOF> I don't think I like what they've done with the application menu, either.
[01:31] <TheMuso> I originally thought the menu proxy was making things screwy, so I launched an instance of nautilus with it disabled, which made no difference.
[01:32] <RAOF> Yeah, I think that single menu is what's meant to be there.
[01:32] <TheMuso> Yep.
[01:32] <TheMuso> But I thought the menu proxy may have blocked shortucts that may have worked to open the gear menu and submenus...
[01:32] <TheMuso> shortcuts
[01:33] <robru>  I actually like the new nautilus, but yeah it does need some help with the keyboard shortcuts. then again, perhaps I'm biased as my own personal application I developed to not have a menubar, only a simple toolbar and a tiny shell menu.
[01:33] <TheMuso> robru: Please please please whatever you do, test with the Orca csreen reader, and check keyboard accessibility for comon functions.
[01:34] <TheMuso> gah my typing sucks today.
[01:34] <robru> never used orca, good call. I'll give it a shot.
[01:34] <RAOF> Ooh, it looks like nautilus' type-ahead-find got better, at least.
[01:34] <TheMuso> It did? Not in my experience so far.
[01:34] <RAOF> Hm. Or, rather, different.
[01:34] <TheMuso> IMO its worse.
[01:34] <robru> I do make sure to have reasonable keyboard shortcuts though.
[01:35] <RAOF> It's now a true recursive search, but you don't get the awesome behaviour of highlighting the thing that you want.
[01:35] <RAOF> Urgh. Also, no backspace. That's going to trip me up *all* the time.
[01:37] <TheMuso> Yep me too, I use backspace a lot to go up in the directory tree.
[01:37] <RAOF> There's no longer *any* button to go up the directory tree, either.
[01:38] <TheMuso> Awesome.
[01:38] <bryceh> sounds like nautilus ought to be reverted
[01:38] <TheMuso> bryceh: If we value our user's sanity, perhaps.
[01:38] <TheMuso> Hell if we value our own sanity.
[01:38] <RAOF> Oh, I guess there *is* the breadcrumb bar, which is kinda go-up-a-directory.
[01:39] <chrisccoulson> hah, oh, nautilus :(
[01:39] <chrisccoulson> https://twitter.com/chrisccoulson/status/227446961849122817 ;)
[01:40] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Yeah agreed, plus the above. I can't get to menus with the keyboard, which is a show stopper. Well, not easily anyway. I can do so if I tab around a bit, and trya and work out which button in the toolbar has focus.
[01:41] <chrisccoulson> TheMuso, yeah. i can normally adapt to most things, but I think i'm going to struggle to like the new version :/
[01:44] <TheMuso> Looks like I'll be using the terminal for all file management now. I enjoyed using nautilus for file management.
[01:45] <robru> well, yeah. Where else are you going to write perl one liners for batch renaming files? ;-)
[01:45] <chrisccoulson> i hate the separation of the appmenu and the gear menu too
[01:45] <chrisccoulson> although, i dislike the gear menu entirely in nautilus. it only really works if it's not full of submenus
[01:45] <RAOF> Yeah.
[01:46] <TheMuso> Agreed to both the above.
[01:46] <TheMuso> robru: Batch renames are always terminal of course. :)
[01:46] <RAOF> If you've got a couple of menu items a single menu makes sense; if you've got a significant amount of functionality in a couple of different categories exposed there, it doesn't.
[01:46] <chrisccoulson> there's a reason why we disable the firefox button in firefox (because it sucks for basically the same reason as the gear menu)
[01:47] <TheMuso> But nautilus is useful when one has to move large files, as one doesn't neet to keep a terminal open, and one gets a progress update for the most part.
[01:48] <TheMuso> I'd love to see the design team's reaction when they see these changes.
[02:09] <robru> TheMuso, I don't feel that it's design is flawed per se, it just seems to me like a few implementation bugs. better keyboard shortcuts and then boil the menus down to the more simpler essentials and it could be just fine.
[02:36] <jbicha> ok, I reported https://bugzilla.gnome.org/680567 & https://bugzilla.gnome.org/680568
[02:44] <TheMuso> jbicha: Thanks, the latter was one I was going to file, but I was going to do so after the break I just had. Thanks.
[02:49]  * jbicha wonders what Ubuntu Online Accounts is, and finds it humorous that it's included in GNOME (empathy) but currently disabled in Ubuntu
[02:51]  * RAOF is a bit sad about gnome-online-accounts
[02:51] <micahg> kenvandine: it seems like the pointer isn't being restricted to the contents that it should
[02:54] <micahg> kenvandine: in the 3 instances I've seen, there's junk appended past the end of where the data should stop
[02:55] <kenvandine> interesting
[02:55]  * micahg wonders why it would be i386 only
[02:57] <kenvandine> that is what is most odd
[02:58]  * micahg wonders if something isn't null terminating a string somewhere, but that should be on all archs vs just i386
[02:58] <kenvandine> yeah, it is strange
[02:59] <kenvandine> if you figure it out... please fix it :) if not i'll work on it more tomorrow
[03:00] <micahg> unfortunately, I can't spend more time on it, I can file a bug upstream though
[03:00] <kenvandine> i plan to talk to upstream tomorrow
[03:00] <micahg> ah, ok, I'll leave it for you then
[03:01] <kenvandine> i am also curious to see if 0.19.3 has the same problem
[03:01] <kenvandine> which built before
[03:01] <kenvandine> i have to finish some libaccounts stuff now though :)
[03:02] <micahg> kenvandine: I've just kicked off a test build, will let you know
[03:02] <kenvandine> cool
[03:02] <kenvandine> thx
[03:06]  * micahg looks inquisitively at --disable-Werror
[03:10] <micahg> kenvandine: 0.19.3 passed
[03:10] <kenvandine> good
[04:06] <pitti> Good morning
[04:08] <kenvandine> good morning pitti
[04:42] <desrt> pitti: hey!
[04:42] <desrt> pitti: you're on IB 0524, right?
[04:46] <desrt> pitti: we have a bit of a bad situation.  please check your email for a full explanation.
[04:49] <BigWhale> Good Morning.
[04:49] <pitti> desrt: hey; yes, I am
[04:50]  * pitti offlineimaps
[04:50] <desrt> pitti: i appreciate any help you can give :)
[04:51] <pitti> desrt: uh, will do
[04:51] <desrt> thanks :)
[04:51] <pitti> desrt: you can't reach him by phone?
[04:51] <pitti> desrt: do you have a photo of him?
[04:51] <desrt> tiffany is talking to him right now
[04:51] <desrt> any messages?
[04:51] <desrt> i found a picture of him
[04:52] <pitti> desrt: where does he need to go? Rialta as well, or someplace else?
[04:53] <desrt> rialta
[04:53] <pitti> ah, that's easy then, we can just go there together
[04:54] <pitti> I was going to take a taxi anyway
[04:54] <desrt> you should have a picture
[04:54] <desrt> ya... taxi is very cheap
[04:55] <pitti> I suppose there is little chance to send him https://www.piware.de/fotos/hackergotchi.png now
[04:55] <larsu> morning pitti, when do you arrive? I'm sharing a cab with seb at around 8 pm
[04:56] <desrt> will do
[04:56] <pitti> larsu: I'll arrive at 17:00 already, with didrocks and robert
[04:56] <larsu> ah okay. Thought you might be on the same flight...
[04:56] <larsu> see you there, then ;)
[04:56] <pitti> desrt: got his photo and name on my mobile now, thanks
[04:57] <pitti> larsu: yeah, safe travels!
[04:57] <larsu> you too!
[04:57] <pitti> desrt: so don't worry, we'll pick him up
[04:58] <robru> hey desrt, do you have a minute, or are you too busy packing?
[04:58] <desrt> robru: i'm just about to be ushered off of a plane
[04:59] <robru> hahah, ok. have fun! I'll catch you later.
[04:59] <desrt> looks like i'm not going to be flying out until the morning...
[05:00] <desrt> pitti: thanks so much for helping out here.  i owe you one.
[05:01] <pitti> desrt: no worries
[05:02] <pitti> desrt: crossing fingers that you'll arrive at last!
[05:02] <pitti> desrt: how long is the delay, a full day?
[05:02] <desrt> well
[05:02] <desrt> we were supposed to leave at 21:45
[05:03] <desrt> now they tell us 8:00
[05:03] <pitti> suck
[05:04]  * pitti hugs desrt
[05:04] <desrt> looks like we will lose our iberia flight :(
[05:04] <desrt> it was booked separate
[07:23] <thumper> desrt: that really sucks
[07:24] <xclaesse> with today's firefox update there is a "plugin needed" banner taking half my screen :(
[07:24] <xclaesse> and it can't be removed
[07:49] <chrisccoulson> xclaesse, screenshot?
[07:50] <xclaesse> chrisccoulson, actually restarting firefox fixed it already
[07:52] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. never mind then :)
[07:57] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: remember yesterday when I said FF was causing all sorts of bad juju on my ssytem?
[07:57] <jasoncwarner_> got the update today and it seemed to be better
[07:57] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, that seems odd :/
[07:57] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: whatever! Magic update fairies too care of my problem. Manager Jason is happy! YAY UPDATE FAIRIES!
[07:58] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[07:58] <jasoncwarner_> I'll give it a thorough testing tonight by spending inordinate amount of time on youtube when I'm done with work
[08:03] <mlankhorst> jasoncwarner_: during work time of course
[08:03] <mlankhorst> :D
[08:08] <rickspencer3> hi jasoncwarner_
[08:08] <rickspencer3> anyone running Unity 3D on their pandaboards yet?
[08:09] <jasoncwarner_> hey rickspencer3
[08:09] <jasoncwarner_> hey mlankhorst
[08:09] <rickspencer3> hey guys ;)
[08:10] <rickspencer3> jasoncwarner_, shouldn't Unity 3d work fine on the pandas with the GLES patches?
[08:10] <jasoncwarner_> hey rickspencer3 running 3d has to wait for gles patch to land. it would be 2d for now.
[08:10] <jasoncwarner_> rickspencer3: yeah, but that patch isn't there yet.
[08:12] <mlankhorst> heya
[09:55] <mlankhorst> heya
[10:02] <Sweetsha1k> jasoncwarner_: around?
[10:09] <Sweetshark> hmmm, whoopsie. starting LibreOffice Impress once with LD_DEBUG=all => 207MB logfile
[10:55] <mlankhorst> Sweetshark: loading 2 gb logfiles with kate that expand to 8gb due to conversion to wide char ;)
[11:44] <desrt> pitti: hey
[11:46] <desrt> pitti: everything is looking okayish, more or less.  see you tomorrow.
[11:47] <RAOF> Good luck!
[11:47] <desrt> thanks :)
[11:48]  * desrt flies
[13:17] <bcurtiswx> good morning
[13:45] <bcurtiswx> everyone at GUADEC ?
[13:50] <dobey> nope
[14:24] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[15:26] <blitzkrieg3> Hello all, can I get a sponsor for bug 873027?
[15:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 873027 in unity-2d "DBUS_STARTER_ADDRESS and DBUS_STARTER_BUS_TYPE aren't always unset from environment making gedit and possibly others fail to start" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873027
[15:29] <blitzkrieg3> specifically for oneiric-proposed, it's already fixed in precise
[15:29] <blitzkrieg3> I have a bzr branch and it's already been reviewed by someone
[15:31] <Laney> chrisccoulson: you want to?
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> Laney, i'm not even sure i can upload that. i think i tried before already
[15:31] <Laney> you aren't core-dev?
[15:32] <chrisccoulson> heh, no, i'm not ;)
[15:32] <micahg> desktop can upload unity-2d in oneiric
[15:33] <Laney> indeed
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> oh, so i can
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> i'll take a look in a bit then
[15:35] <blitzkrieg3> nice!
[15:35] <blitzkrieg3> thanks chrisccoulson!
[19:01] <bcurtiswx> does anyone in here use tcsh ?
[19:03] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, not me
[19:04] <bcurtiswx> some change in csh has caused errors where setenv only accepts letter to start
[19:04] <kenvandine> well, i was 20 years ago :)
[19:04] <bcurtiswx> but in older ubuntu releases this is not the case
[19:04] <bcurtiswx> so now a script we run got all screwed up :(
[19:05] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, did it break in precise or quantal
[19:05] <bcurtiswx> precise
[19:05] <bcurtiswx> (they were using 10.10 <hides>
[19:05] <bcurtiswx> upgraded to 12.04
[19:10] <cyphermox> I wonder of the guys are having fun at GUADEC..
[19:11] <cyphermox> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680596
[19:11] <ubot2> Gnome bug 680596 in general "NetworkManager cannot connect to Rialta (Guadec 2012) wifi" [Normal,Assigned]
[19:11] <bcurtiswx> haha
[19:11] <cyphermox> :)
[19:11] <kenvandine> haha
[19:11] <kenvandine> that's awesome
[19:12] <kenvandine> i think i saw that danw wasn't going to guadec
[19:12] <kenvandine> too bad, he could fix it there :)
[19:49] <cyphermox> kenvandine: it's fixed, pretty much. just really weird ;)
[19:49] <kenvandine> :-D
[21:38] <Shinobi> I've installed gnome shell from the launchpad ppa, but when I login via the Gnome (as opposed to the Gnome Classic) desktop, it only goes the the fallback gnome, not the full blown gnome3. Am I missing something?
[21:47] <jbicha> Shinobi: you need to have working 3D graphics, you probably don't need a PPA though to use gnome-shell
[21:59] <Shinobi> anyway to check if I have the hardware I need?
[22:41] <skaet> bryceh, RAOF - could one of you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/colord/+bug/1026520?  any possible ways of avoiding it?
[22:41] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1026520 in colord "colord-sane crashed with SIGSEGV in __opendirat()" [High,Confirmed]
[22:45] <bryceh> skaet, hopefully RAOF can take it; I'm off on vacation for the remainder of the month
[22:46] <skaet> bryceh, have a good vacation.
[22:46]  * skaet hopes RAOF can look at it then too.  :)
[23:49] <RAOF> skaet: Looking... looks like it's probably a bug in libsane?