[04:06] <pitti> carif: package name aliases> up to some degree with Provides:
[04:06] <pitti> carif: jockey can look up printer drivers from openprinting.org
[08:55] <xclaesse> gedit can't be upgraded in Quantal because of gedit-plugins
[14:05] <sonne> greetings!
[14:06] <xnox> slangasek: did you have a chance to re-review my updated mdadm upload? stgraber is asking me about it again.
[14:06] <sonne> could anyone point me to some design docs about unity?
[14:07] <xnox> sonne: try #ubuntu-design channel. They might know better =)
[14:07] <sonne> oh thanks xnox.. who knew ubuntu had so many channels :)
[14:07] <xnox> sonne: in general it's almost always in the wiki.ubuntu.com for relevant item (e.g. messaging menu, overlay scrollbar, unified menu)
[14:08] <xnox> sonne: and / or blog posts on design.canonical.com
[14:08] <sonne> relevant item?
[14:08] <xnox> sonne: indicators is one thing, typography/font another, session menu yet another item, overlay scrollbar is separate.
[14:09] <xnox> sonne: it was all developed and matured in individual pieces to create unity.
[14:09] <xnox> sonne: what specifically are you after?
[14:09] <sonne> well, for what i know it's still on an early development stage
[14:09] <sonne> so i was wondering where the project was headed
[14:11] <xnox> sonne: 4 years since Ubuntu Netbook Remix was released -> now known as Unity
[14:12] <xnox> hardly "early development stage" ;-)
[14:13] <sonne> xnox, well ubuntu netbook was very different from unity, at least speaking of UI
[14:14] <ogra_> it was the same code it just matured over time
[14:14] <xnox> sonne: yet so many core design patterns and code is still here - e.g. the dash/launcher
[14:14] <xnox> and didn't notifications and indicators were developed even before that?
[14:15] <ogra_> notifications are two years older than netbook, yeah
[14:15] <ogra_> indicators came later
[14:15] <sonne> so you're saying that unity is pretty much done?
[14:16] <ogra_> no, but its a mature base for further progress :)
[14:16] <xnox> sonne: it's never done =) but a lot of it, has been done =)
[14:16] <ogra_> in precise the HUD was added for example
[14:17] <ogra_> which will eventually become the core for things like voice input etc
[14:17] <ogra_> there are many areas where new development happens on top of unity and indeed there are also still many bugfixes
[14:19] <sonne> well, speaking from a very personal point of view, the netbook remix seemed more intuitive for first approaches (my grandma is still using it), while i'm having a hard time getting used to unity  myself - this is probably because i haven't really got a grasp on its philosophy, this is why i was looking for design docs
[14:21] <sonne> please don't take what i said as polemic, i'm just explaining what i was after on my first question and why :)
[14:24] <xnox> sonne: my sister gave me a phone call:" I remember you installed skype for me, how do I launch it?"
[14:24]  * xnox she could not find the big fat button to launch apps, which are not on her dock (all 5 of them)
[14:24] <xnox> she now has skype as the 6th item.
[14:24] <sonne> \o/
[14:24] <xnox> I bet she forgot what big fat button is for now.
[14:25] <sonne> which button by the way? isn't the generic menu a button like all the others?
[14:39] <mterry> pitti, heyo!  Got a sec to talk about apport's build-depend on python-pykde4?
[14:48] <ScottK> mterry: What's the problem?
[14:49] <mterry> ScottK, it's keeping some kde stuff like kdepim-runtime in main.  Meaning Kubuntu still has to do the whole MIR thing for some packages.  If we could move the tests it is used for to dep8 instead, we could drop the binaries from main
[14:50] <ScottK> mterry: It's not just apport.  It's ubiquity and other things too.
[14:51] <ScottK> Unless you're going to do a clean sweep, it doesn't help.
[14:52] <mterry> ScottK, huh..  reverse-depends doens't show ubiquity
[14:52] <mterry> for either python3-pykde4 or python-kde4
[14:53] <ScottK> reverse-depends ubiquity shows ubiquity-frontend-kde.  That depends on python-kde4.
[14:53] <Riddell> ubiquity-frontend-kde is in universe
[14:54] <mterry> ScottK, yeah, not in main
[14:54] <ScottK> Ah.
[14:54] <mterry> reverse-depends -c main is much smaller (just apport)
[14:54]  * micahg gets nothing
[14:54] <mterry> micahg, reverse-depends -c -main -b python3-pykde4
[14:54] <micahg> ah, python3
[14:55] <mterry> and as a build-depend, not normal depend
[14:55] <xnox> mterry: how does python-pykde3 in main results in MIR for other stuff?
[14:55] <xnox> or do you want to extend python-pykde3 with extra dependencies which are not in main?
[14:55] <ScottK> It depends on the other stuff.
[14:55] <mterry> xnox, because it depends on kdepim-runtime, and when kdepim-runtime adds new dependencies, those get MIRd
[14:55] <mterry> xnox, right
[14:55] <xnox> ok.
[14:55] <semitones> hello -- any installer developers here? I have a question about the installation iso, fat32 usb file system, and symbolic links
[14:56] <mterry> And it requires more privileges for these arbitrary set of kubuntu apps
[14:56] <xnox> there were talks to asking to split python-pykde4 into multiple packages. What exactly does apport depend on?
[14:56] <xnox> can we have a small package with just that?
[14:56] <Riddell> xnox: there were?
[14:56] <mterry> xnox, python3-pykde4 just for some tests.  I wanted to see if pitti is ok with them only being run as dep8, which apport already uses
[14:56] <mterry> that way, we don't have to install as a build-dep
[14:56] <semitones> a file on the alternate cd failed integrity check, and when I mounted the iso to check what it was, it was a symlink that I couldn't copy over to the USB, because fat32 doesn't support symlinks -- is that known behavior?
[14:57] <mterry> semitones, maybe #ubuntu-installer if you don't get an answer here
[14:57] <xnox> mterry: ok, not a build-dep but as a regular Depends? Or can dep8 install arbitary additional dependencies? (I haven't used dep8 yet)
[14:57] <semitones> mterry: thanks
[14:57] <xnox> semitones: ah, ha! that's why it fails =) thanks a lot =)
[14:57] <mterry> xnox, it is both, but the apport-kde binary can be dropped to universe.  The bulid-depend unavoidably keeps the depend in main
[14:58] <mterry> xnox, yeah, dep8 can install arbitrary packages, post-build
[14:58] <semitones> xnox: it pertained to your problem too?
[14:58] <xnox> mterry: just do it -> install kde dep8 post-build. Where "just do it" is submit a merge proposal for review =)
[14:59] <mterry> xnox, fair enough  :)
[14:59] <xnox> semitones: yeah, usb-creator boots, rarely validated the iso for me. Now there is a valid suspect, as to why =)
[14:59] <mterry> It certainly seems like pitti isn't around right now
[14:59] <xnox> mterry: i think he is at GUADEC ;-)
[15:00] <mterry> Ah...  Yeah, don't want to distract him with KDE questions while he's in GNOME's camp
[16:06] <mcclurmc> i'm the upstream maintainer for a package in debian and ubuntu
[16:07] <mcclurmc> we recently found that some default settings could lead to a security issue
[16:07] <mcclurmc> i'm working with debian to update their package, and i'd like to release a fix for precise at the same time
[16:07] <mcclurmc> is there an ubuntu-security mailing list that I can discuss this with, like debian-security?
[16:10] <micahg> mcclurmc: you need something private?
[16:10] <mcclurmc> that's the idea
[16:10] <mcclurmc> or at least insight into the process for backporting a security fix to precise
[16:10] <micahg> mcclurmc: cc security at ubuntu dot com
[16:10] <mcclurmc> okay, thanks
[18:10] <skunk_> Did any one try the windows 8 RC??
[18:12] <skunk_> Its boot is way faster the 12.04.. Are there any plans to cut boot times in the next ubuntu release?? If not you guys should get on it! :)
[18:58] <skunk_> does anyone even talk on here??
[19:00] <ScottK> Not about Windows, not really.
[19:00] <ScottK> Given /topic that's hardly surprising.
[19:03] <skunk_> @ScottK I was just wondering about it.. Remember using 6.06 and it's boot and shutdown times were wayy faster then XP or vista on a P4
[19:03] <udevbot> Error: "ScottK" is not a valid command.
[19:04] <skunk_> ScottK, I was just wondering about it.. Remember using 6.06 and it's boot and shutdown times were wayy faster then XP or vista on a P4
[19:04] <skunk_> it slowed down on 8.04.. and sped up again on 10.04.. Im wondering why for future plans.. is that rude? If so I apologize
[19:08] <ScottK> Asking about people trying Windows 8 is off topic.  It's nothing to do with Ubuntu development.
[19:10] <skunk_> yes it does have something about Ubuntu Development. Its about how Ubuntu compares to Windows 8.. and what the development team can do to keep competitive with it
[19:10] <skunk_> if I said something like.. "have you ever tried greek pizza" im pretty sure that would be off topic
[19:11] <Pici> skunk_: This isn't a discussion channel, its for pure development.
[19:12] <Pici> Theres #ubuntu-offtopic (and #ubuntu-discuss) for talking about Ubuntu.
[19:13] <skunk_> fine. I apologize. Ive been with this community for almost 7 years i don't problems with anyone
[19:13] <ScottK> As long as you stop, it's not a problem.
[19:14] <Laney> You /could/ be helpful by quantifying your impressions into workable bug reports though, by doing some proper analysis.
[19:14] <skunk_> i do alot of bug reporting dude. trust me
[19:15] <ScottK> Boot speed analysis is an area that needs people to get interested in and do some specialized work.
[19:16] <ScottK> If it boots slow, it's not because it's intended to be slow, so it's valid work no matter what other O/S's do.
[19:17] <slangasek> a major factor in Windows 8 speed improvements is going to be UEFI Fast Boot, which actually has nothing to do with the OS
[19:19] <skunk_> Ubuntu has lots of work to do in alot of areas tho. Utouch , boot, power efficiency, etc. No offense, but it seems like it's falling behind osx and windows..
[19:20] <skunk_> does the zietgeist framework support search a document by text content yet??
[19:20] <skunk_> im pretty sure its written in vala
[19:26] <dobey> skunk_: zeitgeist is not an indexing framework. it's a logging framework.
[19:26] <skunk_> yeah i just realized that sorry
[19:27] <dobey> skunk_: also, install osx on some random hardware from china, and let me know how that power management and such works out for you. :)
[19:27]  * Laney gently nudges you away to the aforementioned other channels
[21:36] <Shinobi> I've installed gnome shell from the launchpad ppa, but when I login via the Gnome (as opposed to the Gnome Classic) desktop, it only goes the the fallback gnome, not the full blown gnome3. Am I missing something?
[21:37] <ScottK> Shinobi: #ubuntu-desktop is a better channel for such questions.
[21:37] <Shinobi> ok thx
[21:51] <bdrung> we can sponsor sync requests faster than other can deliver pizzas (example: 34 mins for bug #1029141)
[21:53] <micahg> bdrung: 18 minutes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/birthday/+bug/1027711/+activity :)
[21:54] <bdrung> micahg: wow, that's fast
[21:54] <micahg> we aim to please :)
[21:55] <bdrung> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ becomes the bottleneck, because it updated periodically
[21:55]  * micahg occasionally culls them from #ubuntu-bugs-announce
[21:57] <ScottK> I've been mostly fixing RC bugs in Debian and then syncing lately.
[22:36] <SpamapS> bdmurray: seems to be a flaw in the "detect comments after SRU accepted" logic on the SRU report
[22:36] <SpamapS> bdmurray: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/modsecurity-apache/+bug/988819
[22:37] <SpamapS> bdmurray: that should not be gold, because the next comment is just another accept to a different pocket
[22:45] <bdmurray> SpamapS: it doesn't look gold to me in the report
[22:45] <SpamapS> bdmurray: the second one is
[22:46] <SpamapS> bdmurray: or rather, the precise one is
[22:46] <bdmurray> I still don't see it
[22:47] <bdmurray> ah for apache2
[22:47] <bdmurray> not mod-proxy-html or modsecurity-apache
[22:51] <bdmurray> SpamapS: Why is apache2 in precise-proposed?
[22:52] <bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/modsecurity-apache/+bug/988819/comments/29
[22:53] <SpamapS> bdmurray: it may want to be removed actually
[22:54] <bdmurray> SpamapS: the code expects the upload and SRU comment to happen on the same day
[22:54] <bdmurray> and the upload for apache2 was quite some time ago
[22:54] <SpamapS> bdmurray: perhaps something went wrong w/ the comment?
[22:55] <bdmurray> SpamapS: ? if you look at the lines for the modules neither of those are golden which is the expected behavior
[22:56] <SpamapS> bdmurray: right, was confused by apache2 ;)
[22:56] <bdmurray> I concede that the logic isn't great but this apache2 thing is a corner case I think
[22:58] <SpamapS> totally