/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/07/26/#bzr.txt

spivjelmer: wow, that's an impressively slow reconcile :)00:18
spivjelmer: possibly the gcc inventories are so large the default lru cache sizes are ineffective?00:19
lifelessthumper: it does00:20
thumperlifeless: yay00:20
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mgzmorning all!07:14
vilamorning mgz07:20
mgzhow are you today vila?07:25
vilahot :)07:25
mgzheh, reverse here, is overcast today07:25
vila33C as yesterday, yummy07:25
fullermdShoot, that's all?07:26
mgzI'm not going to feel sympathy for the heat you have to endure fullermd07:28
fullermdNobody ever has sympathy for me  :(07:31
mgzit's because everyone's too busy admiring you? :)07:32
fullermdI s'pose it IS time consuming, all that time people spend thinking of nice things to do for me.07:34
vilawell, my favorite Stone's song is Sympathy For ... wossname08:16
fullermdWhat, more than Gimme Shelter?08:20
vilayup08:31
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BY0LOG1Chello folks, mind if a cvs n00bie ask for support in here?13:23
BY0LOG1Cill make it short. im an indie developer for a small studio and i had the *poor?* idea to put our whole 50gb project under version control. commiting the whole folder would cause OOM so i broke it down into smaller commit.13:27
BY0LOG1Clarge binary files would still crash so i had them ignored. all fine, except the 10 commit triggers a repack - which crash, no matter what i do13:27
BY0LOG1Ci tried the bzr repack -nosmart+[url] found on the forum but that also crash around file 50k/80k on a win7 machine. is there anything i can do to help my cause?13:28
mgzwhy version the large binary files?13:29
mgzthis is something people (eg games developers) have asked for, but none of the dvcs systems are really designed to handle that sensibly13:30
BY0LOG1Ci am fine with that issue, i had the large binary ignored. the problem is now that bzr will OOM on any commit/repack13:30
mgzif it's not human-editable text, there's not much point putting it in version control as opposed to using some other archive+update method13:30
mgzBY0LOG1C: probably you committed at some point, then removed it? instead, you want to not add it it the first place13:31
fullermdI have an archive+update mechanism; it's called "version control"  ;p13:31
mgzfor videos and photos from your camera fullermd?13:32
mgzmost people use something better suited.13:32
BY0LOG1Cthanks for the help mgz. yes ive had added the whole directory and tried commiting that - which failed on the ~1gb video files. so ive went to the bazaar explorer and had the file removed13:32
mgzgames development is interesting, because they generally have two different groups that still want to combined form to be synced in some manner13:32
fullermdHeavens no.  I don't want any paper trail for my videos and photos...   safer that way.13:32
fullermdI mean...   what videos and photos?  I don't know of any videos and photos.13:33
mgzall those risqué self-portraits fullermd...13:34
fullermdOh, you're supposed to do them yourSELF?13:35
fullermdWell, shucks.  I could have saved all those subpoenas...13:35
mgzBY0LOG1C: I'd go from the start again, clearly you had at least one commit that included big things13:35
BY0LOG1Cso, i should delete my .bzr folder and start over and be more careful what i commit? ok ill try that, but it does seems kinda fragile, isnt it?13:37
mgzthere's a thing in 2.5 that warns you when adding a file larger than 10MB or somehing13:38
BY0LOG1Ci'd like to keep my whole(as mush as possible) my full game project under version control - is that impossible, am i required to manually browse each folder and add relevant files myself?13:38
BY0LOG1Cim using 2.5.1(?) and i havent seen warning or anything13:39
mgzI'd have an assets folder for all art/music etc that is stored and updated elsewhere but the sourcecode build process knows how to fetch and update13:39
mgzif you've currently got stuff scattered around all over the place that's a little harder to manage13:39
BY0LOG1Cyeah i understand that starting a project with cvs in mind would've helped us greatly13:40
mgzso then you just ignore ./assets, and make creates and populates it from a well known location13:41
BY0LOG1Cright, that should work13:42
mgzand ftp server that gets backed up regularly or something, and you give upload rights to your artists13:43
BY0LOG1Cso i really should version my assets myself - in a totally separate manner than code files13:43
mgzprobably don't need to version, just keep a few checkpoints to prevent one person accidentially screwing stuff up too much13:44
BY0LOG1Cok, so an example pipeline could be to commit changes, zip up an asset folder and mark it with the revision id, i guess that could keep things clean and simple13:45
BY0LOG1Cwell, thanks for the help. i guess this project's kind of ruined but the next ones should hopefully work great13:48
mgzwell, you can filter out the bad bits of history with fast-export/fast-import but that's probably not gaining you much over just versioning from now minus the big files13:50
BY0LOG1Cyeah, well, after hearing your advices. i guess my idea of versioning the 'project' and all its pre-compiled stuff was wrong. my idea was that one could switch between versions with only a few clicks within the bazaar contextmenu13:52
BY0LOG1Ci really should version only the source code directory and then have the engine recompile that when required13:53
mgzthat's something that games dev do want, it's just not well supported by anything at the moment, given the rather different content storage requirements13:53
BY0LOG1Cim amazed at the quantity of commands and possibilities that cvs offers, versioning really is an art13:53
mgzbtw, it's vcs, or dvcs (for bzr, hg git), cvs is a specific vcs without the d13:54
fullermdWell, CVS is...  _like_ art...13:54
BY0LOG1Coh ok,ty13:54
fullermdIn the "fingerpainting with your own intestines" sense, anyway.13:54
BY0LOG1Clol13:54
BY0LOG1Chow can i un-version a project? will just deleting the .bzr folder do the trick?14:58
BY0LOG1Cit looks like some connection remains14:59
BY0LOG1Cnvm, looks like that dit it, my bad -_-15:00
james_wvila, hi15:04
james_wvila, you think there should be lock_for_script(name) that does the locking, and prints a useful error message, and that is used by all scripts?15:04
vilajames_w: yes15:04
james_wsounds good15:05
james_wvila, I'm not sure I understand your point about the makedirs() though?15:05
vilaI think we're close to that already and I really realized it when seeing your proposal15:05
vilaso,15:05
vilaensure_dir makes sure the dirs are created so, only doing it in the tests means it will fail on a new install (at the worst possible time ;)15:06
vilathat is: we don't have (yet) a script to ensure all the needed dirs are created15:06
vilayour patch is fine as is for running the tests, for jubany and probably for your other udd instance but if I create a local one for tests purposes, I'll have to create the lock dirs manually15:07
james_wyes, it will fail on install15:07
james_wbut it will also fail if e.g. the config options aren't being expanded and it's trying to lock ${pi.locks_dir}/whatever, which is obviously not what is wanted15:07
james_wit's a case of failing noisily so the admin can be sure it is doing what they want15:08
vila<shudder> Ha right15:08
vilahmm, but that expansion issue has been solved right ?15:08
james_wI think that's the right way to go, so I'd like to look for ways to go that way and mitigate the fallout15:08
james_wyeah, we had to upgrade bzr15:08
james_wthe version check didn't match exactly when the API changed15:09
vilawell, ideally the way to go is to have a postinstall script15:09
vilayeah, my bad, I was hoping for people using trunk to upgrade often15:09
vilathe bug was there for only a couple of revisions15:09
vilawell, a mormon couple :)15:10
james_wvila, so are you happy if I land with the lock_for_script() change?15:16
james_wand we can add a script to create dirs for new installs or something?15:16
vilahehe, if the script appears soon enough *then* I'll be happy :) On the other hand, if you start with just creating the obvious dirs, it shouldn't be hard to write15:19
vilahmm,15:19
vilain fact, the script is what you started to add in the test setup15:19
vilano more no less15:19
james_wyeah15:19
james_whave a function that creates needed dirs15:19
james_wrun it in test setup15:19
james_whave a script that calls it too15:19
vilaperfect15:19
james_wthen it can't get out of sync15:19
vilaand is tested by design :)15:20
james_wvila, I'll make those changes, thanks15:20
vilathanks to you15:20
vilaoh, since you're there, I had to struggle a bit to run the tests for this branch (install postgres, find postgresfixtures (damn, not packaged ?), install python-fixtures as recommended in 'requirements.txt'), but succeeded then15:22
james_wshould I add a Makefile?15:22
vilaI was wondering if we should add them as dependencies for udd if only to be able to run the tests after installation15:22
vilahmm, not sure I would have thought of the Makefile (I did find requirements.txt quickly)15:23
james_won other projects we have "make bootstrap" create a virtualenv with everything you need to run tests15:23
vilaI mention that because I mentioned to jml  that running the test suite would have caught the expansion bug15:23
vilanever used virtualenv :)15:24
vilaI do chroot, lxc, kvm, vbox and so on but no venv yet :)15:24
jmljames_w: oh right I forgot to chase that up ... did we actually end up upgrading bzr? no one got back to me from ops15:25
james_wjml, oh, I was assuming it was done15:25
jmljames_w: yeah. me too :\15:25
vilajames_w: so, summary, no Makefile needed, for now it's up to the dev to setup his env properly, I think I'll add them as dependencies to bzr-package-importer as some point15:27
vilas/as some/at some/15:27
james_wok15:27
vilaand if you add the postinstall script, it will also find its place there ;)15:28
vilajames_w: oh, and jokes aside, I *did* at various points in the past installed a local udd in vbox then kvm then lxc then chroot ;)15:29
james_wvila, you ran a chroot in an lxc in a kvm in virtualbox?!15:29
vilalol15:29
vilaon my BeBox !15:29
james_wheh15:29
BY0LOG1Cive got some more beginners questions if you guys dont mind.18:10
BY0LOG1Cwhat exactly is the purpose of repacking? is it only to save space or is there a speed benefit?18:11
fullermdI imagine there's a moderate theoretically speed benefit.  Larger practical one.18:12
BY0LOG1Calso, is there a way to ask bazaar to not repack automatically?18:12
BY0LOG1Coh ok, thanks. so repacking is primarily to save space?18:12
fullermdNot really.  You could probably monkey around via a plugin and shortcut the autopacks away.18:13
fullermdNo, and yes.  x-ref "larger practical".18:13
BY0LOG1Chmm, i guess i can handle the auto-repack18:15
BY0LOG1Cthanks. i had been committing a 50gb project into smaller pieces and the 10th commit triggered auto-repack, which took forever when i was one commit away from completion18:15
fullermdThere are basically 2 times that the auto-repack will hurt you a lot.18:16
BY0LOG1Cnot a real issue, but it got me wondering18:16
fullermd(1) you're doing a lot of dumb server work, in which case DDTT applies18:16
fullermd(2) you have ginormous mounds of data, in which case you're probably going to be in trouble from other things anyway.18:16
BY0LOG1Cyeah i was working locally but was actually commiting the full game project. i talked a little in here today(you were there) and i learned that wasnt a good idea in any case18:17
BY0LOG1Cstill, im trying to figure the whole versioning idea18:17
BY0LOG1Cis there a platform similar to launchpad that allows non-public shared project for free?19:04
ccxCZI believe bitbucket allows a few of private repos for free19:05
ccxCZhg or git only though19:05
ccxCZalso, launchpad is opensource, you can run it on your machine :]19:07
BY0LOG1Cyou mean i'd host my own repo?19:07
ccxCZsingle repo is trivial, via ssh or something19:08
ccxCZbut you can run the whole suite with project management, teams, bug tracking etc..19:09
BY0LOG1Chm, ill have to check it out, could be interesting19:09
ccxCZor you could just slap on bzr plugin on trac or redmine19:10
BY0LOG1Cthough i guess it'll be complicated enough that i'll mess up something. i hoped for an external solution heh19:10
BY0LOG1Cim sorry if those are dumb questions. is bazaar somehow based on svn or are they completelty different projet?19:11
ccxCZprivate hosting solutions are out there, you just need to pay for them :]19:12
ccxCZcompletely unrelated19:12
ccxCZsimilar goal, different approach, completely different implementation19:12
BY0LOG1Cright. im kind of just checking out vcs. im just an indy game developer with a little codebase i can easily handle19:13
BY0LOG1Cbut i share code with a few team, i thought it could be fun to see how the big guys do stuff. i guess i can just drop it on launchpad and nobody will bother with it19:14
BY0LOG1Cthanks a lot for the suggestions though.im just not too sure im able to apply them :)19:15
ccxCZyou don't need to use launchpad for just one project19:35
ccxCZVPSes are pretty cheap if you need to share some space with others and you don't already have always-on accessible computer19:36
BY0LOG1Cis that something i could setup on my hosted domain?19:44
lamontbzr st20:10
lamontbzr: ERROR: exceptions.AssertionError: get_next() called when there are no chars left20:10
lamontdo we know about that one?20:10
lamont2.3.4-0ubuntu120:10
lifelesslamont: there should be more in ~/.bzr.log, but my WAG is you have a corrupt status file.20:11
ccxCZBY0LOG1C: depends on what hosted domain actually means. for smart-server to run (which is quite beneficial) you basically need to be able to run custom apps, which is usually known as "shell account"20:46
ccxCZVPS is more than that, you get control over whole (virtual) server, with user accounts etc.20:47
ccxCZbzr can run with just file access, as most webhosts provide, but it would be suboptimal20:48
BY0LOG1Coh i see. well i believe ive got a shell account - im the cpanel admin anyway. ive setup a small test where i just uploaded a versioned folder and i could easily pull from it with bazaar20:48
BY0LOG1Ci didnt try pushing but at this point i guess it works too. so that should be simple and efficient enough for me. im a happy camper20:49
BY0LOG1Cbut wait, so im goint the suboptimal way, arent i?20:49
ccxCZif you can install bzr on the server, you will be able to use bzr+ssh:// style uris too (aka smart-server)20:50
ccxCZif the server has python installed already it should not be hard20:50
ccxCZeasy_install --user bzr  might just do the trick20:52
BY0LOG1Ci notice a ssh/shell section where i can setup key. but i cant find where i'd install it. i guess i should search around a little and see what i find. i dont want to bother you all day20:54
ccxCZassuming you come from windows: http://www.howtoforge.com/ssh_key_based_logins_putty20:56
BY0LOG1Cgreat info, thanks again!20:58
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