| spiv | jelmer: wow, that's an impressively slow reconcile :) | 00:18 |
|---|---|---|
| spiv | jelmer: possibly the gcc inventories are so large the default lru cache sizes are ineffective? | 00:19 |
| lifeless | thumper: it does | 00:20 |
| thumper | lifeless: yay | 00:20 |
| === spm is now known as stevemci | ||
| === stevemci is now known as spm | ||
| === spm is now known as stevemci | ||
| === stevemci is now known as spm | ||
| === spm is now known as stevemci | ||
| === stevemci is now known as spm | ||
| === zyga-afk is now known as zyga | ||
| mgz | morning all! | 07:14 |
| vila | morning mgz | 07:20 |
| mgz | how are you today vila? | 07:25 |
| vila | hot :) | 07:25 |
| mgz | heh, reverse here, is overcast today | 07:25 |
| vila | 33C as yesterday, yummy | 07:25 |
| fullermd | Shoot, that's all? | 07:26 |
| mgz | I'm not going to feel sympathy for the heat you have to endure fullermd | 07:28 |
| fullermd | Nobody ever has sympathy for me :( | 07:31 |
| mgz | it's because everyone's too busy admiring you? :) | 07:32 |
| fullermd | I s'pose it IS time consuming, all that time people spend thinking of nice things to do for me. | 07:34 |
| vila | well, my favorite Stone's song is Sympathy For ... wossname | 08:16 |
| fullermd | What, more than Gimme Shelter? | 08:20 |
| vila | yup | 08:31 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| BY0LOG1C | hello folks, mind if a cvs n00bie ask for support in here? | 13:23 |
| BY0LOG1C | ill make it short. im an indie developer for a small studio and i had the *poor?* idea to put our whole 50gb project under version control. commiting the whole folder would cause OOM so i broke it down into smaller commit. | 13:27 |
| BY0LOG1C | large binary files would still crash so i had them ignored. all fine, except the 10 commit triggers a repack - which crash, no matter what i do | 13:27 |
| BY0LOG1C | i tried the bzr repack -nosmart+[url] found on the forum but that also crash around file 50k/80k on a win7 machine. is there anything i can do to help my cause? | 13:28 |
| mgz | why version the large binary files? | 13:29 |
| mgz | this is something people (eg games developers) have asked for, but none of the dvcs systems are really designed to handle that sensibly | 13:30 |
| BY0LOG1C | i am fine with that issue, i had the large binary ignored. the problem is now that bzr will OOM on any commit/repack | 13:30 |
| mgz | if it's not human-editable text, there's not much point putting it in version control as opposed to using some other archive+update method | 13:30 |
| mgz | BY0LOG1C: probably you committed at some point, then removed it? instead, you want to not add it it the first place | 13:31 |
| fullermd | I have an archive+update mechanism; it's called "version control" ;p | 13:31 |
| mgz | for videos and photos from your camera fullermd? | 13:32 |
| mgz | most people use something better suited. | 13:32 |
| BY0LOG1C | thanks for the help mgz. yes ive had added the whole directory and tried commiting that - which failed on the ~1gb video files. so ive went to the bazaar explorer and had the file removed | 13:32 |
| mgz | games development is interesting, because they generally have two different groups that still want to combined form to be synced in some manner | 13:32 |
| fullermd | Heavens no. I don't want any paper trail for my videos and photos... safer that way. | 13:32 |
| fullermd | I mean... what videos and photos? I don't know of any videos and photos. | 13:33 |
| mgz | all those risqué self-portraits fullermd... | 13:34 |
| fullermd | Oh, you're supposed to do them yourSELF? | 13:35 |
| fullermd | Well, shucks. I could have saved all those subpoenas... | 13:35 |
| mgz | BY0LOG1C: I'd go from the start again, clearly you had at least one commit that included big things | 13:35 |
| BY0LOG1C | so, i should delete my .bzr folder and start over and be more careful what i commit? ok ill try that, but it does seems kinda fragile, isnt it? | 13:37 |
| mgz | there's a thing in 2.5 that warns you when adding a file larger than 10MB or somehing | 13:38 |
| BY0LOG1C | i'd like to keep my whole(as mush as possible) my full game project under version control - is that impossible, am i required to manually browse each folder and add relevant files myself? | 13:38 |
| BY0LOG1C | im using 2.5.1(?) and i havent seen warning or anything | 13:39 |
| mgz | I'd have an assets folder for all art/music etc that is stored and updated elsewhere but the sourcecode build process knows how to fetch and update | 13:39 |
| mgz | if you've currently got stuff scattered around all over the place that's a little harder to manage | 13:39 |
| BY0LOG1C | yeah i understand that starting a project with cvs in mind would've helped us greatly | 13:40 |
| mgz | so then you just ignore ./assets, and make creates and populates it from a well known location | 13:41 |
| BY0LOG1C | right, that should work | 13:42 |
| mgz | and ftp server that gets backed up regularly or something, and you give upload rights to your artists | 13:43 |
| BY0LOG1C | so i really should version my assets myself - in a totally separate manner than code files | 13:43 |
| mgz | probably don't need to version, just keep a few checkpoints to prevent one person accidentially screwing stuff up too much | 13:44 |
| BY0LOG1C | ok, so an example pipeline could be to commit changes, zip up an asset folder and mark it with the revision id, i guess that could keep things clean and simple | 13:45 |
| BY0LOG1C | well, thanks for the help. i guess this project's kind of ruined but the next ones should hopefully work great | 13:48 |
| mgz | well, you can filter out the bad bits of history with fast-export/fast-import but that's probably not gaining you much over just versioning from now minus the big files | 13:50 |
| BY0LOG1C | yeah, well, after hearing your advices. i guess my idea of versioning the 'project' and all its pre-compiled stuff was wrong. my idea was that one could switch between versions with only a few clicks within the bazaar contextmenu | 13:52 |
| BY0LOG1C | i really should version only the source code directory and then have the engine recompile that when required | 13:53 |
| mgz | that's something that games dev do want, it's just not well supported by anything at the moment, given the rather different content storage requirements | 13:53 |
| BY0LOG1C | im amazed at the quantity of commands and possibilities that cvs offers, versioning really is an art | 13:53 |
| mgz | btw, it's vcs, or dvcs (for bzr, hg git), cvs is a specific vcs without the d | 13:54 |
| fullermd | Well, CVS is... _like_ art... | 13:54 |
| BY0LOG1C | oh ok,ty | 13:54 |
| fullermd | In the "fingerpainting with your own intestines" sense, anyway. | 13:54 |
| BY0LOG1C | lol | 13:54 |
| BY0LOG1C | how can i un-version a project? will just deleting the .bzr folder do the trick? | 14:58 |
| BY0LOG1C | it looks like some connection remains | 14:59 |
| BY0LOG1C | nvm, looks like that dit it, my bad -_- | 15:00 |
| james_w | vila, hi | 15:04 |
| james_w | vila, you think there should be lock_for_script(name) that does the locking, and prints a useful error message, and that is used by all scripts? | 15:04 |
| vila | james_w: yes | 15:04 |
| james_w | sounds good | 15:05 |
| james_w | vila, I'm not sure I understand your point about the makedirs() though? | 15:05 |
| vila | I think we're close to that already and I really realized it when seeing your proposal | 15:05 |
| vila | so, | 15:05 |
| vila | ensure_dir makes sure the dirs are created so, only doing it in the tests means it will fail on a new install (at the worst possible time ;) | 15:06 |
| vila | that is: we don't have (yet) a script to ensure all the needed dirs are created | 15:06 |
| vila | your patch is fine as is for running the tests, for jubany and probably for your other udd instance but if I create a local one for tests purposes, I'll have to create the lock dirs manually | 15:07 |
| james_w | yes, it will fail on install | 15:07 |
| james_w | but it will also fail if e.g. the config options aren't being expanded and it's trying to lock ${pi.locks_dir}/whatever, which is obviously not what is wanted | 15:07 |
| james_w | it's a case of failing noisily so the admin can be sure it is doing what they want | 15:08 |
| vila | <shudder> Ha right | 15:08 |
| vila | hmm, but that expansion issue has been solved right ? | 15:08 |
| james_w | I think that's the right way to go, so I'd like to look for ways to go that way and mitigate the fallout | 15:08 |
| james_w | yeah, we had to upgrade bzr | 15:08 |
| james_w | the version check didn't match exactly when the API changed | 15:09 |
| vila | well, ideally the way to go is to have a postinstall script | 15:09 |
| vila | yeah, my bad, I was hoping for people using trunk to upgrade often | 15:09 |
| vila | the bug was there for only a couple of revisions | 15:09 |
| vila | well, a mormon couple :) | 15:10 |
| james_w | vila, so are you happy if I land with the lock_for_script() change? | 15:16 |
| james_w | and we can add a script to create dirs for new installs or something? | 15:16 |
| vila | hehe, if the script appears soon enough *then* I'll be happy :) On the other hand, if you start with just creating the obvious dirs, it shouldn't be hard to write | 15:19 |
| vila | hmm, | 15:19 |
| vila | in fact, the script is what you started to add in the test setup | 15:19 |
| vila | no more no less | 15:19 |
| james_w | yeah | 15:19 |
| james_w | have a function that creates needed dirs | 15:19 |
| james_w | run it in test setup | 15:19 |
| james_w | have a script that calls it too | 15:19 |
| vila | perfect | 15:19 |
| james_w | then it can't get out of sync | 15:19 |
| vila | and is tested by design :) | 15:20 |
| james_w | vila, I'll make those changes, thanks | 15:20 |
| vila | thanks to you | 15:20 |
| vila | oh, since you're there, I had to struggle a bit to run the tests for this branch (install postgres, find postgresfixtures (damn, not packaged ?), install python-fixtures as recommended in 'requirements.txt'), but succeeded then | 15:22 |
| james_w | should I add a Makefile? | 15:22 |
| vila | I was wondering if we should add them as dependencies for udd if only to be able to run the tests after installation | 15:22 |
| vila | hmm, not sure I would have thought of the Makefile (I did find requirements.txt quickly) | 15:23 |
| james_w | on other projects we have "make bootstrap" create a virtualenv with everything you need to run tests | 15:23 |
| vila | I mention that because I mentioned to jml that running the test suite would have caught the expansion bug | 15:23 |
| vila | never used virtualenv :) | 15:24 |
| vila | I do chroot, lxc, kvm, vbox and so on but no venv yet :) | 15:24 |
| jml | james_w: oh right I forgot to chase that up ... did we actually end up upgrading bzr? no one got back to me from ops | 15:25 |
| james_w | jml, oh, I was assuming it was done | 15:25 |
| jml | james_w: yeah. me too :\ | 15:25 |
| vila | james_w: so, summary, no Makefile needed, for now it's up to the dev to setup his env properly, I think I'll add them as dependencies to bzr-package-importer as some point | 15:27 |
| vila | s/as some/at some/ | 15:27 |
| james_w | ok | 15:27 |
| vila | and if you add the postinstall script, it will also find its place there ;) | 15:28 |
| vila | james_w: oh, and jokes aside, I *did* at various points in the past installed a local udd in vbox then kvm then lxc then chroot ;) | 15:29 |
| james_w | vila, you ran a chroot in an lxc in a kvm in virtualbox?! | 15:29 |
| vila | lol | 15:29 |
| vila | on my BeBox ! | 15:29 |
| james_w | heh | 15:29 |
| BY0LOG1C | ive got some more beginners questions if you guys dont mind. | 18:10 |
| BY0LOG1C | what exactly is the purpose of repacking? is it only to save space or is there a speed benefit? | 18:11 |
| fullermd | I imagine there's a moderate theoretically speed benefit. Larger practical one. | 18:12 |
| BY0LOG1C | also, is there a way to ask bazaar to not repack automatically? | 18:12 |
| BY0LOG1C | oh ok, thanks. so repacking is primarily to save space? | 18:12 |
| fullermd | Not really. You could probably monkey around via a plugin and shortcut the autopacks away. | 18:13 |
| fullermd | No, and yes. x-ref "larger practical". | 18:13 |
| BY0LOG1C | hmm, i guess i can handle the auto-repack | 18:15 |
| BY0LOG1C | thanks. i had been committing a 50gb project into smaller pieces and the 10th commit triggered auto-repack, which took forever when i was one commit away from completion | 18:15 |
| fullermd | There are basically 2 times that the auto-repack will hurt you a lot. | 18:16 |
| BY0LOG1C | not a real issue, but it got me wondering | 18:16 |
| fullermd | (1) you're doing a lot of dumb server work, in which case DDTT applies | 18:16 |
| fullermd | (2) you have ginormous mounds of data, in which case you're probably going to be in trouble from other things anyway. | 18:16 |
| BY0LOG1C | yeah i was working locally but was actually commiting the full game project. i talked a little in here today(you were there) and i learned that wasnt a good idea in any case | 18:17 |
| BY0LOG1C | still, im trying to figure the whole versioning idea | 18:17 |
| BY0LOG1C | is there a platform similar to launchpad that allows non-public shared project for free? | 19:04 |
| ccxCZ | I believe bitbucket allows a few of private repos for free | 19:05 |
| ccxCZ | hg or git only though | 19:05 |
| ccxCZ | also, launchpad is opensource, you can run it on your machine :] | 19:07 |
| BY0LOG1C | you mean i'd host my own repo? | 19:07 |
| ccxCZ | single repo is trivial, via ssh or something | 19:08 |
| ccxCZ | but you can run the whole suite with project management, teams, bug tracking etc.. | 19:09 |
| BY0LOG1C | hm, ill have to check it out, could be interesting | 19:09 |
| ccxCZ | or you could just slap on bzr plugin on trac or redmine | 19:10 |
| BY0LOG1C | though i guess it'll be complicated enough that i'll mess up something. i hoped for an external solution heh | 19:10 |
| BY0LOG1C | im sorry if those are dumb questions. is bazaar somehow based on svn or are they completelty different projet? | 19:11 |
| ccxCZ | private hosting solutions are out there, you just need to pay for them :] | 19:12 |
| ccxCZ | completely unrelated | 19:12 |
| ccxCZ | similar goal, different approach, completely different implementation | 19:12 |
| BY0LOG1C | right. im kind of just checking out vcs. im just an indy game developer with a little codebase i can easily handle | 19:13 |
| BY0LOG1C | but i share code with a few team, i thought it could be fun to see how the big guys do stuff. i guess i can just drop it on launchpad and nobody will bother with it | 19:14 |
| BY0LOG1C | thanks a lot for the suggestions though.im just not too sure im able to apply them :) | 19:15 |
| ccxCZ | you don't need to use launchpad for just one project | 19:35 |
| ccxCZ | VPSes are pretty cheap if you need to share some space with others and you don't already have always-on accessible computer | 19:36 |
| BY0LOG1C | is that something i could setup on my hosted domain? | 19:44 |
| lamont | bzr st | 20:10 |
| lamont | bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AssertionError: get_next() called when there are no chars left | 20:10 |
| lamont | do we know about that one? | 20:10 |
| lamont | 2.3.4-0ubuntu1 | 20:10 |
| lifeless | lamont: there should be more in ~/.bzr.log, but my WAG is you have a corrupt status file. | 20:11 |
| ccxCZ | BY0LOG1C: depends on what hosted domain actually means. for smart-server to run (which is quite beneficial) you basically need to be able to run custom apps, which is usually known as "shell account" | 20:46 |
| ccxCZ | VPS is more than that, you get control over whole (virtual) server, with user accounts etc. | 20:47 |
| ccxCZ | bzr can run with just file access, as most webhosts provide, but it would be suboptimal | 20:48 |
| BY0LOG1C | oh i see. well i believe ive got a shell account - im the cpanel admin anyway. ive setup a small test where i just uploaded a versioned folder and i could easily pull from it with bazaar | 20:48 |
| BY0LOG1C | i didnt try pushing but at this point i guess it works too. so that should be simple and efficient enough for me. im a happy camper | 20:49 |
| BY0LOG1C | but wait, so im goint the suboptimal way, arent i? | 20:49 |
| ccxCZ | if you can install bzr on the server, you will be able to use bzr+ssh:// style uris too (aka smart-server) | 20:50 |
| ccxCZ | if the server has python installed already it should not be hard | 20:50 |
| ccxCZ | easy_install --user bzr might just do the trick | 20:52 |
| BY0LOG1C | i notice a ssh/shell section where i can setup key. but i cant find where i'd install it. i guess i should search around a little and see what i find. i dont want to bother you all day | 20:54 |
| ccxCZ | assuming you come from windows: http://www.howtoforge.com/ssh_key_based_logins_putty | 20:56 |
| BY0LOG1C | great info, thanks again! | 20:58 |
| === iBasic is now known as BasicOSX | ||
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