[14:00]  * stgraber waves
[14:00] <arges> o/
[14:01] <stgraber> #startmeeting 12.04.1 team meeting
[14:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 26 14:01:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[14:01] <stgraber> stokachu, smoser, jamespage, jibel_, skaet: ping
[14:01] <smoser> o/
[14:01] <jibel_> o~
[14:02] <NCommander> o_/
[14:02] <stgraber> #topic Action items review
[14:02] <stgraber> xnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. fs/storage testing
[14:03] <stgraber> no xnox around, so not sure what's the status on this, will keep it on the list of now
[14:03] <stgraber> #topic Review of upcoming deadlines
[14:03] <jibel_> no news from xnox this week
[14:03]  * skaet o/
[14:04] <stgraber> jibel_: ok, I know he's quite busy (days off and quite a bit of work when he's around), so I wouldn't expect much to change at this point
[14:04] <stgraber>   - 2012/08/02: Beginning of PointReleaseProcess and DesktopInfrastructureFreeze
[14:04] <stgraber>   - 2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing
[14:04] <stgraber>   - 2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
[14:04] <stgraber>   - 2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
[14:04] <stgraber> in case it's not already clear ;) you have ONE week to get your fixes in!
[14:05] <stgraber> #topic Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress.
[14:05] <seb128> hey
[14:05] <stgraber> hey seb128
[14:05] <seb128> sort of around but at GUADEC so I might drop offline or not be responsive
[14:05] <stgraber> seb128: just did the action reviews and pasted the deadlines, starting with the bugs now.
[14:05] <stgraber> The number of targeted bugs went from 120 last week to 106.
[14:05] <seb128> if you have questions for me please ask them while I'm around ;-)
[14:05] <stgraber> Of these 106, 45 are in fix commited state (likely waiting in -proposed)
[14:05] <stgraber> and 14 are marked "in progress" (waiting to be approved).
[14:06] <stgraber> So that's 47 bugs that still need fixing of which 19 aren't assigned to somebody.
[14:06] <stgraber> With just one week to go, now would be a good time to cleanup these lists and remember your teammates that they have bugs to fix :)
[14:06] <seb128> we should start moving agressively stuff to .2 I guess
[14:06] <seb128> right, will do that
[14:06] <stgraber> The full list of bugs can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
[14:06] <stgraber> The list of remaining bugs to fix can be found at: http://goo.gl/RUiZe
[14:06] <stgraber> Some of these aren't assigned to someone yet: http://goo.gl/22zV2
[14:06] <seb128> did we have an improved report?
[14:07] <stgraber> we have http://people.canonical.com/~arges/point-release/milestone-12.04.1.html thanks to arges
[14:07] <arges> seb128, still getting the cron job set up on cranberry
[14:07] <seb128> thanks
[14:07] <stgraber> xnox offered to help arges and stokachu with the required rdepends rebuild for their multiarch packages by using his rebuild scripts on the HP cloud.
[14:09] <stgraber> stokachu, arges: did you make any progress on that side (multiarch bugs)? I expect these to take quite a while to verify, so we really need them in ASAP
[14:09] <arges> stokachu is out right now, but I'll sync with him when he gets out of his meeitngs
[14:10] <stgraber> ok
[14:10] <stgraber> If someone has fixes will be uploaded after the deadline and this was agreed with the release team, please let me know, otherwise I'll move all remaining bugs to 12.04.2.
[14:10] <stgraber> #action stgraber to move all remaining bugs from 12.04.1 to 12.04.2 on the 2nd of August at 21:00 UTC
[14:10] <meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to move all remaining bugs from 12.04.1 to 12.04.2 on the 2nd of August at 21:00 UTC
[14:10] <stgraber> *that will be
[14:11] <stgraber> I'd obviously prefer that people re-milestone their own bugs before that ;)
[14:11] <stgraber> that's it on my side for the bugs, anyone has anything to highlight?
[14:12]  * arges looks
[14:13] <arges> stgraber, http://launchpad.net/bugs/979003  <-- this one
[14:13] <skaet> stgraber,   some of the remaining bugs we may want to go to -updates instead of 12.04.2 - so a scrub rather than bulk move is probably appropriate.
[14:15] <stgraber> arges: I'm told that one will be fixed on time by infinity
[14:15] <stgraber> arges: along with a couple others eglibc bugs
[14:15] <seb128> ok, I'm moving room, might get disconnected
[14:15] <stgraber> skaet: yeah, that's why I'd prefer the assignee to re-milestone their own bugs before I mass re-milestone the rest. I'm just going to move from 12.04.1 to 12.04.2, but anything that should instead go to updates should ideally be done by the assignee
[14:15] <arges> stgraber, ok cool that's my understanding too
[14:16] <stgraber> #topic Media oversizedness (skaet)
[14:16] <skaet> no updates on this from me.    We do need to understand why we're oversized.
[14:17] <stgraber> so, currently the only images that are oversized are amd64, amd64+mac and i386 daily-live
[14:17] <stgraber> one of the main reasons is the inclusion of duplicate kernel headers
[14:17] <stgraber> infinity said he'd hack live-build to fix that, but that didn't happen yet apparently
[14:18] <stgraber> I'll poke infinity post-meeting regarding eglibc + live-build, to confirm that these will land before the 2nd
[14:18] <skaet> thanks.
[14:19] <stgraber> I haven't looked at flavour oversizedness yet, mostly because we're not building them yet (AFAIK), but it's possible that we'll have some problems with kubuntu, xubuntu, .. too
[14:19] <stgraber> edubuntu should be fine as it's a DVD and has around 2GB of free space :)
[14:20] <stgraber> #topic Round table
[14:20] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ echo $(shuf -e NCommander seb128 stgraber stokachu arges jibel skaet smoser jamespage)
[14:20] <stgraber> stokachu stgraber arges NCommander smoser jamespage jibel seb128 skaet
[14:20] <stgraber> no stokachu, so skipping to me
[14:21] <stgraber> I've been uploading a bunch of SRUs that had patches attached or were easy cherry-pick. I have a couple more like that to do.
[14:21] <stgraber> I'm also going to do another round of SRU verification as the list is getting a bit long to my taste.
[14:21] <stgraber> Besides that, I've been nagging my teammates and cleaning up the bug list :)
[14:21] <stgraber> arges:
[14:22] <arges> Trying to get the point-release dashboard working on cranberry
[14:22] <arges> it works on my machine, but not there, so trying to debug it
[14:23] <arges> I know its very late in the cycle here, but I'm hoping its more useful in .2
[14:23] <arges> ..
[14:23] <stgraber> NCommander:
[14:23] <stgraber> around?
[14:24] <stgraber> apparently not
[14:24] <stgraber> smoser:
[14:25] <smoser> - server tracked bugs list is quite resonable.
[14:25] <smoser>   It really feels to me like 12.04.1 and maas updates are not likely.
[14:25] <smoser>   I believe the team is still considering what to do for maas updates to LTS. I'll poke today.
[14:25] <smoser> we've had some srus. maas is the big stuff still left on the bug list.
[14:25] <smoser> 'im pinging others on their bugs right now.

[14:26] <NCommander> stgraber: sorry, was OTP'ed
[14:26]  * NCommander will wait for you to comearound
[14:26] <stgraber> NCommander:
[14:27] <NCommander> highbank SRUs are in propsed, known to work (aside fromyou have to enable proposed on the kernel command line for the moment)
[14:27] <NCommander> Expecting no issues to passing into updates, and mreed already validated, and mahmoh is re-validating as a second check
[14:28]  * smoser was also covering for jamespage per his request
[14:28] <NCommander> Unless castrophy strikes, Highbank will release with 12.04.1 as planned

[14:29] <stgraber> jibel_:
[14:29] <jibel_> SRU verification of ubiquity, update-manager and other upgrades defects and found no regression.
[14:30] <jibel_> Blocked on bug 1017580 , the test case must be clarified
[14:30] <jibel_> and bug 987050 , alternate is not installable
[14:30] <jibel_> precise alternate and server fail to install with a typical 'no kernel module found' which should be fixed with debian-installer 20101020ubuntu136.2 uploaded yesterday.
[14:30] <jibel_> But from the version file on the media the image is built with 20101020ubuntu136 (version from the release pocket)
[14:31] <stgraber> jibel_: I can take care of bug 1017580 if you want
[14:31] <jibel_> my understanding was that images are built from proposed, is it the case for d-i based images too ?
[14:31] <jibel_> I'll continue SRU verification by the top of the list.
[14:31] <jibel_> Did a bunch of installation with Ubiquity 2.10.18 and no new bug found so far.
[14:31] <jibel_> ..
[14:32] <stgraber> jibel_: yeah, all images are supposed to be built with -proposed enabled... not sure what happened to the alternates...
[14:32] <jibel_> and server
[14:33] <stgraber> seb128:
[14:33] <seb128> not a lot from desktop
[14:33] <seb128> we got a new unity SRU in proposed
[14:34] <seb128> we should get another set of compiz uploads
[14:34] <seb128> then some GNOME updates and small fixes
[14:34] <seb128> then done for .1
[14:34] <seb128> ..
[14:34] <stgraber> skaet:
[14:34] <skaet> discussed with vanhoof the cedartrail* landing late,   looking into a bug with the slideshow on a fresh install,  settled with martin and david that david will be doing the translation updates.   Doing calculations to add rest of LTS dailies to cron job,  will add after A3 publishes.
[14:35] <skaet> ..
[14:36] <stgraber> #topic AOB
[14:36] <stgraber> one reminder on bug statuses as I've had to fix quite a few lately
[14:37] <stgraber> for the SRU tasks (series = precise, milestone = 12.04.X), the reports and scripts usually expect the following
[14:37] <stgraber> triaged + assigned => bug is being worked on or at least on someone's todo list
[14:37] <stgraber> in-progress => fix has been uploaded and is waiting in the queue for an SRU team member to review
[14:37] <stgraber> fix-commited => the fix has landed in -proposed and is pending verification
[14:38] <stgraber> fix-released => the fix has landed in -updates and is available to everyone
[14:38] <stgraber> the most common mistakes I've seen so far has been marking fix-released when they're only in -proposed and marking fix-commited when the fix hasn't even been uploaded yet (or is still in the queue)
[14:39] <stgraber> I'm doing weekly passes on the 12.04.1 bugs to try and fix any mistake so the reports are accurate, but would be even better if the statuses would be correct to start with :)
[14:39] <stgraber> ..
[14:39] <stgraber> anything else?
[14:41]  * skaet thinks silence indicates EOM... ;)
[14:42] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[14:42] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 26 14:42:23 2012 UTC.
[14:42] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-14.01.moin.txt
[14:42] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-14.01.html
[14:42] <jibel_> thanks stgraber
[14:42] <stgraber> skaet: yeah, I had a 40s lag for some reason, so it took a while for that #endmeeting to go through ;)
[14:42] <stgraber> thanks everyone!
[14:43] <skaet> thanks stgraber
[16:01] <micahg> o/
[16:01] <bdrung> o/
[16:01] <tumbleweed> o/
[16:01] <coolbhavi> o/
[16:01] <asomething> hi all
[16:01] <coolbhavi> hi asomething
[16:03] <tumbleweed> coolbhavi: I guess you are the chair, from the last minutes
[16:04] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, just was having dinner ll be back in just a moment
[16:04] <tumbleweed> coolbhavi: does that mean we should start without you?
[16:05] <coolbhavi> #startmeeting MOTU meeting
[16:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 26 16:05:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is coolbhavi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[16:05] <coolbhavi> hi all
[16:05]  * coolbhavi checks the latest agenda
[16:06] <asomething> doesn't seem to have anything up for discussion...
[16:06] <coolbhavi> yes asomething
[16:06] <maco> mono: go!
[16:06]  * cody-somerville is here but in another meeting concurrently.
[16:07] <coolbhavi> I had a couple of work items myself
[16:07]  * micahg hasn't gotten to his WI yet
[16:07] <micahg> umm, how about scheduling an event where MOTU help Debian close RC bugs?
[16:07] <micahg> most of them are RC in Ubuntu as well
[16:07] <micahg> err...well, at least a good portion
[16:08] <coolbhavi> micahg, certainly yes :)
[16:08] <tumbleweed> micahg: I like that
[16:08] <asomething> +1
[16:09] <bdrung> sounds good (besides that it needs manpower which is a rare resource)
[16:09] <micahg> by MOTU I mean the MOTU community, not just MOTUs as I'm sure most of those present understand
[16:11]  * bdrung nods.
[16:11] <coolbhavi> micahg, sounds good.. are you willing to take a session on the same in MOTU school?
[16:12] <micahg> coolbhavi: my biggest problem ATM is time, I can try to be around to help when the event happens, but can't commit to a session right now
[16:12] <tumbleweed> I don't know if one can teach "fixing RC bugs"
[16:12] <micahg> well, show how to find them, what to do once you have a patch...
[16:12] <tumbleweed> but it would be easy enough to do a quick overview of how to find Debian RC bugs, what makes them RC, and how to contribute
[16:12] <ScottK> tumbleweed: You can teach finding which ones are RC bugs and sorting through them to find the one you can ifx.
[16:12] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, just a process workflow insight would help I guess
[16:13] <ScottK> That's hard enough if you don't know the tools.
[16:13] <tumbleweed> yes
[16:14]  * tumbleweed can volunteer for that session
[16:14] <coolbhavi> ScottK, agreed but as micahg said one can always show a bug or two as an example and interested people can pickup I guess
[16:17] <coolbhavi> any further inputs on the same anyone?
[16:18] <bdrung> no
[16:19] <tumbleweed> picking a date would be good
[16:19] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, how about next tuesday or anyday of next week?
[16:20] <tumbleweed> next tuesday works for me. from midday UTC?
[16:21] <coolbhavi> fine with me too
[16:21] <bdrung> why not the whole day?
[16:21] <tumbleweed> if one wants a training thing, it starts with that
[16:21] <bdrung> agreed
[16:21] <tumbleweed> but I suppose, it doesn't have to
[16:24] <coolbhavi> bdrung, we initially thought of a series of intro sessions (maybe around 4 or 5) with introduction to some development topics this cycle as a part of relaunch of MOTU school. take a look at the response and then plan it forward the next cycle
[16:26] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, any time proposal for the session in your mind?
[16:28] <tumbleweed> my proposal was midday UTC, it suits me well, just after lunch. But I can make any time after 8am UTC
[16:28] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, how about 2PM UTC then?
[16:28] <coolbhavi> next tuesday>
[16:31] <tumbleweed> coolbhavi: sure, that's afternoon for europe and morning for the US
[16:32] <coolbhavi> I'll make an action item then
[16:33] <coolbhavi> #action tumbleweed to take a session on RC bug fixing workflow on tuesday 31st at 1400 UTC
[16:33] <meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to take a session on RC bug fixing workflow on tuesday 31st at 1400 UTC
[16:35] <coolbhavi> other point of discussion was spreading the word around MOTU School
[16:35] <coolbhavi> IIRC
[16:35] <coolbhavi> any thoughts anyone?
[16:35] <tumbleweed> what are you needing for that. People to sign up?
[16:35] <tumbleweed> is there a schedule and has a call for speakers been posted? I don't recall it
[16:37] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, something like a blogpost would do I had called for speakers during 1st session https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-July/007273.html
[16:37] <coolbhavi> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-July/007273.html
[16:39] <tumbleweed> coolbhavi: can I propose having a schedule wiki page like we do for UDW
[16:39] <tumbleweed> then it's obvious when there are gaps that should be filled
[16:39] <tumbleweed> or do sessions only happen when we have speakers offering?
[16:39] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, sure +1 here
[16:41] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, A schedule list on the wiki and a call for speakers before each session on the list would be fine I guess
[16:42] <tumbleweed> coolbhavi: it'd be great
[16:42] <tumbleweed> I'll happily sign up for a session or two, if I saw the huge gaps that needed filling :)
[16:42] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, thanks a lot :)
[16:43] <coolbhavi> #action tumbleweed to set up a MOTU school schedule page on the wiki
[16:43] <meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to set up a MOTU school schedule page on the wiki
[16:44]  * tumbleweed shuts up so he stops getting action items
[16:44] <tumbleweed> :)
[16:45] <coolbhavi> other thing we discussed was merging of packaging training and MOTU school pages on the wiki which I hope to finish by next monday
[16:45] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, sorry for those :)
[16:46] <tumbleweed> no, that's how it works...
[16:46] <coolbhavi> :)
[16:47] <coolbhavi> so those were the discussion points from the last meeting afaik. Is there anything anyone wants to discuss?
[16:48] <tumbleweed> there are also standing agenda items on the wiki page
[16:50] <bdrung> i like to discuss merges
[16:50] <bdrung> how many package are modified in Ubuntu? does this number increase or decrease? can we get the changes back into Debian?
[16:51] <tumbleweed> have you seen the graphs at the bottom of https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
[16:51]  * micahg thinks MoM is broke again
[16:51] <tumbleweed> don't forget debian is frozen
[16:52] <tumbleweed> which makes it suprising that so many things need merging
[16:52] <micahg> nope, it's broke :), last graphs generated 7 days ago
[16:52] <tumbleweed> we should post some reminders about that...
[16:52]  * tumbleweed hides
[16:54] <micahg> well, we can push patches up while Debian is frozen, but they probably won't be integrated until after DIF for R when Debian unfreezes
[16:54] <bdrung> tumbleweed: the graphs is too small
[16:55] <tumbleweed> what I mean is, we should be easily able to catch up on the merges
[16:55] <ScottK> bdrung: You have access to the source, so you can fix that.
[16:55] <tumbleweed> there should be few incoming changes from Debian that aren't very important to us
[16:56] <ScottK> BTW, I've found in my RC bug fixing in Debian a few cases where when I went to sync the fix to Ubuntu, it was already in Ubuntu (and recently so).
[16:56] <ScottK> No patch was ever sent.
[16:56] <ScottK> So that could be better still.
[16:57] <coolbhavi> ScottK, +1 here
[16:57] <ScottK> blockdiag beint the one I hit last night.
[16:57] <ScottK> ... being ...
[17:00] <coolbhavi> ScottK, how about notifying the developer (from the changes list) when he does patch a ubuntu package and the patch would be applicable in debian too (like ftbfs patches) to forward it to debian as a remainder after checking the BTS if the developer hasnt done so?
[17:00]  * coolbhavi thinks its a weird idea
[17:01] <tumbleweed> calling out poor behavior ++
[17:01] <ScottK> I can take care of the specific case, but there's obviously more work to be done.
[17:02] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, ScottK agreed
[17:05] <coolbhavi> any inputs from anyone regarding the same? and any other topic to discuss?
[17:06] <tumbleweed> I still see a few standing items on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings thath we haven't covered
[17:06] <tumbleweed> but I need to run off
[17:07] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, I thought those are fixed items
[17:10]  * coolbhavi sees that the meeting is well past time :)
[17:12] <coolbhavi> btw anyone volunteering to chair next meeting?
[17:13] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, bdrung ScottK ^^^^^
[17:13]  * ScottK is not.
[17:13] <coolbhavi> micahg,
[17:14]  * bdrung hides.
[17:14] <ScottK> That leaves tumbleweed.
[17:14] <micahg> I guess I can chair if I'm around next time
[17:15] <coolbhavi> micahg, great :)
[17:16]  * coolbhavi searches around for tumbleweed 
[17:17] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, is afk hmm
[17:18] <coolbhavi> #action micahg to chair the next MOTU meeting on 10th July
[17:18] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg to chair the next MOTU meeting on 10th July
[17:18] <coolbhavi> alright, thats it from me then
[17:18] <coolbhavi> thanks all
[17:19] <coolbhavi> #endmeeting
[17:19] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 26 17:19:25 2012 UTC.
[17:19] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-16.05.moin.txt
[17:19] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-16.05.html
[17:32] <tumbleweed> coolbhavi: I understand that "fixed" as "standing"
[17:33] <tumbleweed> certainly we were supposed to be having a bug fixinging inititiative item as a standing item
[17:33] <coolbhavi> tumbleweed, sorry I took it in the other sense
[18:00] <jono> alrighty
[18:00] <jono> #startmeeting
[18:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 26 18:00:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:00] <jono> hey folks!
[18:00] <jono> who is hear for the Ubuntu Accomplishments team meeting?
[18:00]  * janos_ here
[18:01] <janos_> hey jono!
[18:01] <notgary> Me o/
[18:01] <jono> hey janos_!
[18:01] <Andy80> <---- me :)
[18:01] <margo> hi
[18:01] <jono> cool, thanks, folks for joining us :-)
[18:01] <jvrbanac> here
[18:01] <jono> awesome :-)
[18:02] <jono> so which of you folks is new and interested in helping with the project?
[18:02] <jaywink> \o/ new here, would like to help :)
[18:02] <margo> me too
[18:02] <jvrbanac> I'm new here as well
[18:03] <jono> fantastic, so maybe if you folks could just let us know the kind of things you like doing (e.g. programming, writing docs) or anything else, and we can get you started :-)
[18:03] <jaywink> programming here: do Python mostly and I like the idea so figured this would be a nice way to try Ubuntu stuff for the first time
[18:03] <jono> jaywink, oh awesome!
[18:04] <jono> jaywink, you should take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking first
[18:04] <Andy80> I like to code, maybe you remember I contributed with a small accomplishment. But right now (at least until the end of august) I cannot be sure to have enough time to help, since I work all day and when I go back home I'm very tired :(
[18:04] <Andy80> so I'm here just to listen and to remain updated with the project status
[18:04] <jono> Andy80, no worries, anything you can do to help would be great - maybe helping with some bugfixes?
[18:04] <jvrbanac> Programming here. I took a look at at the hacking portion of the Wiki last night
[18:04] <margo> i can code too, but i am not too experienced, and i can write doc or translate to german too if that is needed
[18:04] <jono> jvrbanac, ahhh cool, did it make sense?
[18:04] <jaywink> jono, yeah did read through today, will need to dig in deeper
[18:04] <TheTattooedGeek> Hey Jono, Just here to see where the project is headed.. the only language I currently work in is PHP
[18:05] <jvrbanac> yes it did.
[18:05] <notgary> I'm relatively new here. Been to one meeting before and chimed in on the mailing list once. I'm a software developer in my day job, working with C++ and Qt. I'm making my way into iOS development in my spare time and have python and Django/Quickly on my todo list to learn.
[18:05] <epikvision> I want to learn to code.
[18:05] <jono> cool, so it seems like a lot of coding interest here
[18:05] <gigix> hello
[18:05] <jono> you folks should definitely check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking to get started
[18:05] <jono> it explains how to install the branches and provides some details of how the project works
[18:06] <jono> this is an evolving document so if things are not clear, do let me know, and I will clarify and then update the doc so everyone benefits
[18:06] <jono> you folks should all join #ubuntu-accomplishments for sure
[18:07] <jono> and I know a few of you mentioned being new, well the other primary hacker on the project, cielek, who unfortunately could not make the meeting today, well he was new to Python when he joined
[18:07] <jono> and he is doing awesome work on the project
[18:07] <jono> we just want to make sure that getting involved is as simple as possible
[18:07] <TheTattooedGeek> nice
[18:07] <jono> we are also growing our API docs for the project - they are linked on the Hacking page too
[18:08] <jono> so if you want to start on something, we recommend picking a bug and hacking on it
[18:08] <margo> sounds good ;)
[18:08] <jono> the Viewer bugs are probably the easiest to get started with, and the bugs list is at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-accomplishments-viewer
[18:08] <jono> just pick a bug, work on it in your branch and then submit it
[18:08] <jono> details of how to hack on it and submit it are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking#Step_4:_Create_and_Submit_Your_Fix
[18:09] <jono> you might also want to join the mailing list at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-accomplishments-contributors
[18:09] <jaywink> are bugs usually claimed or just worked on by however gets it done first? :) I guess that's not normally a problem ;)
[18:09] <janos_> and if you have any questions along the way, usually somebody on #ubuntu-accomplishments can help if you explain where you got stuck
[18:09] <jono> jaywink, right now we recommend people just pick a bug and post a comment to say they are working on it
[18:10] <jono> but if you find you don't have time, please post a follow up comment so the bug is not blocked by others thinking you are working on it
[18:10] <jono> yeah as janos_ says, we are always open to questions in #ubuntu-accomplishments
[18:10] <jono> do any of you have any questions about the project, how to get started, or the code?
[18:10] <TheTattooedGeek> negative
[18:11] <gigix> so far so good for me
[18:11] <jono> cool
[18:11] <jono> well feel free to chip in with questions if you have them
[18:11] <janos_> the wiki has step-by-step instructions, if something is missing or was not clear to you, let us know because others might be blocked by the same thing too
[18:11] <jaywink> have been scared to participate in any UBuntu project so far - but this has been laid our so well that had to :) props, no questions so far, the hacking page is a good intro
[18:12] <jono> jaywink, awesome! well, happy to take more questions so I can also expand the docs
[18:12] <jono> jaywink, I recommend just picking a bug, starting hacking on it, and then just asking questions where you are unsure
[18:12] <jono> and when you contribute your fix, we will also do a code review and offer further comments and guidance
[18:12] <jaywink> ok cool
[18:12] <jono> our goal is to make our community as welcoming and open as possible :-)
[18:13] <jono> ok, so next topic
[18:13] <jono> which will be of interest to janos_ and gepatino_mobile in particular
[18:13] <jono> I have been chatting with Canonical IS about how we can have them host the project
[18:14] <jono> I am not the best sysadmin :-)
[18:14] <jono> this is the broad plan:
[18:14] <jono>  * Canonical IS will set up a VM with a staging and production environment
[18:14] <jono>  * trophies.ubuntu.com will be production and staging.trophies.ubuntu.com will be staging
[18:14] <janos_> that is so awesome
[18:14] <jono>  * they will deploy our current validation server, the web gallery, and our admin interface
[18:15] <jono> :-)
[18:15] <gepatino_mobile> jono, will the soft be updated automatically or by request?
[18:15] <jono> we will all work on the staging server and when we cut a release in bzr, we will notify IS who will simply do a pull on production to deploy the code (as well as any additional deployment steps)
[18:16] <jono> gepatino_mobile, my thinking is that for staging we will try to have hourly updates but for production it will be pulled on new releases
[18:16] <jono> make sense?>
[18:16] <janos_> jono how do we tell them the additional deployment steps?
[18:16] <jono> janos_, we can always put it in a document somewhere
[18:16]  * gepatino_mobile is typing in a blackberry on the bus...
[18:16] <jono> gepatino_mobile, I admire your commitment to the meeting :-)
[18:16] <gepatino_mobile> sounds good
[18:17] <jono> ok cool
[18:17] <jono> so I chatted to mbarnett today about this
[18:17] <jono> and we can also safely presume the two django apps will be on the same machine as the validation server
[18:17] <jono> which means we can presume the web gallery can see the shares
[18:17] <jono> so there should be no changes requires to deploy in Canonical IS
[18:18] <gepatino_mobile> makes sense, I was actually thinking more in staging than prod
[18:18] <jono> right
[18:18] <jono> it would be cool to have the current list of shares in staging as well as prod
[18:18] <jono> so this should make your work easier
[18:19] <jono> is there anything that you guys need janos_, gepatino_mobile?
[18:20] <gepatino_mobile> for staging, probably we don't need live shares, a copy could be enough
[18:20] <gepatino_mobile> updated daily, maybe
[18:20] <jono> right
[18:21] <jono> I am thinking we could just copy over the lives shares once a day to staging
[18:21] <jono> hey n8k99
[18:21] <n8k99> hi jono
[18:21] <n8k99> got here as quickly as i could
[18:21] <jono> no worries :-)
[18:21] <jono> thanks for joining us!
[18:21] <jono> n8k99, are you interested in contributing to the project?
[18:22] <n8k99> i am, i like the accomplishments application
[18:22] <n8k99> the concept is pretty cool way to drive more interest in the ubuntu community and project
[18:22] <jono> n8k99, awesome - what kind of contribution? programming, docs, translations?
[18:22] <janos_> jono: not sure the automatic updates are a good idea even on staging
[18:22] <jono> janos_, no?
[18:23] <n8k99> i had an idea this morning, started trying to write it, to make an accomplishment for making your first accomplishment for ubuntu-accomplishments
[18:23] <jono> janos_, how do you think we should update staging? just a pull?
[18:23] <jono> n8k99, cool!
[18:23] <janos_> jono: if it takes the IS folks days or weeks to perform the manual deployment steps, then the site can be broken for days or weeks
[18:23] <n8k99> far too meta perhaps, but i got the .accomlishment written
[18:23] <jono> janos_, right, this is why I think automatic staging might work best
[18:23] <jono> janos_, updating production should be quick
[18:23] <jono> asking them to perform a pull doesn't take much
[18:24] <jono> n8k99, oh cool!
[18:24] <jono> n8k99, we are definitely in need of new accomplishments so I am glad you are helping :-)
[18:24] <n8k99> coding isn't really my strong suit, but i'm gonna give that a whack
[18:24] <janos_> jono: the current demo site was often broken for many days because of the automatic pull and that no sysadmin had time to do the manual steps
[18:24] <jono> n8k99, well you can help in other ways too, such as writing the docs :-)
[18:25] <jono> janos_, ahhh I see
[18:25] <n8k99> that was where i was seeing my bigger contributions coming in
[18:25] <jono> janos_, so I presume you would prefer if you could do a pull directly
[18:25] <janos_> jono: I think it's better the IS update the staging site when they can actually perform the manual steps too
[18:25] <gepatino_mobile> jono, janos_: could we have some kind of access to do the deploys? maybe using sdome deployment tool?
[18:25] <jono> janos_, we could do that
[18:26] <jono> janos_, how often do you think you will need staging updated?
[18:26] <jono> n8k99, awesome :-)
[18:26] <jono> n8k99, well your help is much appreciated :-)
[18:26] <gepatino_mobile> juju someone? :)
[18:26] <n8k99> glad to be involved again after far too long away!!
[18:26] <jono> gepatino_mobile, a juju charm might be a good solution
[18:26] <oneouthere> jono: do you have to be on ubuntu to add to the coding?
[18:26] <janos_> jono: i think it's better if the IS guys do the update, so they build up expertise which will be useful for troubleshooting PROD in the future
[18:27] <jono> oneouthere, pretty much, you need at least Ubuntu 12.04 to run the current codebase
[18:27] <jono> oneouthere, we haven't tried it on other distros
[18:27] <jono> janos_, how often do you think you will need staging updated?
[18:27] <oneouthere> jono, okay thank you
[18:28] <janos_> jono: once a week or so?
[18:28] <jono> janos_, and is it the same manual steps each time that are run?
[18:28] <jono> I am wondering whether this could be rolled into a juju deployment charm for the site
[18:28] <janos_> jono: most of the time there are no manual steps
[18:28] <jono> jan
[18:28] <jono> janos_, I see
[18:29] <jono> lets have a conversation with jcastro about this post-meeting - I will kick off a thread and lets see if Juju can support this
[18:29] <jono> if not we can see if there is another option
[18:29] <jono> I think it would be good if you guys could trigger a staging update when needed
[18:29] <jono> and IS look after the production instance
[18:29] <jono> then you are not blocked
[18:30] <janos_> ok let's discuss later or in emails
[18:30] <gepatino_mobile> that would be great, theres another python framework for deploying, but i cant remember the name
[18:30] <jono> ok cool
[18:30] <jono> thanks folks
[18:31] <jono> the good news is that we should be in a position to get this up and running over the next few weeks
[18:31] <n8k99> thank you!
[18:31] <jono> janos_, gepatino_mobile can you summarize what the web gallery does now and what functionality is missing?
[18:31] <janos_> sure, hang on
[18:32] <jono> thanks
[18:32] <janos_> 1. most of the functionality is there, as per the spec document
[18:32] <janos_> 2. most of the pages are "not the prettiest" and need some touching up in the graphics
[18:33] <jono> maybe imbrandon can help with the CSS there
[18:33] <jono> he is a bit of a CSS guru :-
[18:33] <jono> :-)
[18:33] <janos_> we definitely need that
[18:34] <jono> seeing if he is online and can join the meeting
[18:34] <jono> I am sure he would be happy to help
[18:34] <janos_> 3. the opportunities page should not show already achieved accomplishments
[18:35] <janos_> 4. locked opportunities should use a lock image overlay like the viewer does
[18:36] <jono> awesome
[18:36] <janos_> 5. "Responsive design" would be nice, so the site looks nice on screens of all sizes
[18:36] <janos_> I think these are the big todo items
[18:36] <jono> sounds great
[18:36] <janos_> gepatino_mobile: feel free to add!
[18:36] <jono> I presume the mobile stylesheet is not started yet
[18:36] <janos_> btw guys you can see it in action here: http://213.138.100.229:8000/
[18:37] <janos_> jono: nope, and some css guru awesomeness would be great there
[18:37] <jono> :-)
[18:37] <jono> I am almost 100% sure Brandon would love to help with this
[18:37] <jono> I will drop him an email
[18:37]  * gepatino is back to a real keyboard
[18:37] <jono> gepatino, welcome! :-)
[18:37] <jono> thanks again for you hard work janos_ gepatino
[18:37] <jono> so quick q
[18:38] <gepatino> i've read up to janos_ point 2, did I miss something?
[18:38] <jono> in the future it would be nice to show things such as "Other people who have accomplished this trophy"
[18:38] <jono> I presume this is possible with the current data structure?
[18:38] <jono> gepatino, he made more points:
 maybe imbrandon can help with the CSS there
[18:38] <jono>  he is a bit of a CSS guru :-
[18:38] <jono>  :-)
 we definitely need that
 seeing if he is online and can join the meeting
[18:38] <jono>  I am sure he would be happy to help
[18:38] <jono>  JanC janos_
 3. the opportunities page should not show already achieved accomplishments
[18:38] <jono>  4. locked opportunities should use a lock image overlay like the viewer does
 awesome
[18:39] <jono> <-- virgil153 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 5. "Responsive design" would be nice, so the site looks nice on screens of all sizes
[18:39] <jono>  I think these are the big todo items
 sounds great
 gepatino_mobile: feel free to add!
 I presume the mobile stylesheet is not started yet
 btw guys you can see it in action here: http://213.138.100.229:8000/
[18:39] <jono> <-- gepatino_mobile has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 jono: nope, and some css guru awesomeness would be great there
[18:39] <janos_> jono yes we can do this: "Other people who have accomplished this trophy"
[18:39] <gepatino> I could ad a 6th point: I'm not sure if we got rid of some duplicated urls
[18:40] <gepatino> maybe we should review the current url catalog before going live
[18:40] <jono> gepatino, makes sense
[18:40] <jono> janos_, cool
[18:40] <jono> I am concious that we don't provide leaderboards (as people game them) but other social features would be cool
[18:40] <jono> so it sounds like the core infrastructure will support those social features
[18:40] <jono> awesome
[18:41] <jono> ok, anything else on the deployment topic?
[18:41] <gepatino> is there any estimate on how many users/shared we'll have when launching this?
[18:42] <janos_> gazillions
[18:42] <n8k99> that's an awfully small number
[18:42] <jono> gepatino, not sure yet, I need to give IS an estimation of traffic
[18:42] <jono> currently we have some stats:
[18:42] <gepatino> are we sure that crawling all the shares to get the current trophies will work with so many users?
[18:43] <jono> today we have about 700 users
[18:43]  * gepatino only made tests with millions, not gazillions :/
[18:43] <jono> hehe
[18:43] <jono> I don't anticipate us hitting scaling issues for a while
[18:44] <gepatino> ok, so it's something to be reviewed in future releases
[18:44] <jono> I think we will be under 5000 shares for a while
[18:44] <gepatino> ok, that's not that much
[18:44] <jono> but who knows
[18:44] <jono> I hope we explode with popularity :-)
[18:44] <jono> the good news is that fixing scaling issues on the validation server would be simple
[18:44] <gepatino> in that case we'll have to run, as usual in IT :)
[18:45] <jono> indeed :-)
[18:45] <jono> ok then, any other questions or topics?
[18:45] <jvrbanac> Speaking about scalability, What is the policy on contributing towards code improvements, optimization, and unit testing?
[18:45] <jvrbanac> ^speaking of
[18:45] <notgary> Just like to point out that I pushed a basic iOS app to Launchpad yesterday. https://code.launchpad.net/~notgary/+junk/ubuntu-accomplishments-ios-app
[18:46] <jono> jvrbanac, we welcome all contributions towards that
[18:46] <notgary> It's very basic - I wrote a grand total of 4 lines
[18:46] <jono> jvrbanac, mfisch has been working on unit tests for the daemon - most of the tests are in place
[18:46] <notgary> But it point to a hard-coded url, in this case the project wiki until trophies.ubuntu.com goes live
[18:46] <jvrbanac> jono, awesome thanks!
[18:46] <jono> jvrbanac, we have performed some optimizations over the last few releases, but plenty more scope for improvements
[18:47] <jono> jvrbanac, if you see areas of improvement that are quite big changes, we recommend you mail the list first to discuss, but feel free to hack on a branch and propose it
[18:47] <jono> notgary, oh wow!
[18:47]  * n8k99 is wondering about some of the launchpad account interactions
[18:47] <jono> notgary, did you see the MobileSpec?
[18:47] <n8k99> probably more of a QA interest at this point
[18:47] <jono> notgary, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Specs/Mobile
[18:48] <jono> n8k99, what kind of interactions?
[18:48] <n8k99> there's been a few bugs filed where the launchpad accomplishments are not being picked up
[18:49] <jono> n8k99, yeah we have had a few bugs where trophies are not validated
[18:49] <jono> in most cases this has typically been due to Ubuntu One downtime or someone entering their credentials with a typo
[18:49] <notgary> jono, I've seem it. It looks like the bulk of the functionality will be implemented server-side with the device-specific CSS. My plan was to wait until that got started before adding more code into the app, so I could see what actually needed the work.
[18:49] <jono> notgary, perfect :-)
[18:50] <jono> notgary, yeah, our thinking is a custom stylesheet for each device, and then the app has native menus that point to different parts of the site
[18:50] <notgary> Has anyone started an Android app yet, because I'd be willing to work on that too, given that there's little involved in a wrapper for a web site.
[18:51] <n8k99> i probably need to look at the way its being done before i'm able to form my thinking into an actual question
[18:51] <jono> notgary, nope, no one contributed anything yet
[18:51] <jono> n8k99, no worries!
[18:51] <jono> n8k99, feel free to post the mailing list or ask on IRC when you are ready
[18:51] <n8k99> i will. :-)
[18:51] <jono> man, the mobile is going to be sweet :-)
[18:52] <jono> any other topics or questions?
[18:52] <notgary> That iOS project contains an iPad app as well
[18:52] <jono> cool
[18:52] <notgary> so we should get tablet CSS too
[18:52] <n8k99> speaking of mobile, are there plans to be able to push trophies out to social media channels?
[18:52] <jono> I am going to ask imbrandon if he can contribute stylesheets for the different devices
[18:53] <jono> n8k99, yep, we have built in support in the desktop client
[18:53] <jono> this could arguably be added on trophies.ubuntu.com too
[18:53] <janos_> notgary: is there a way test an ios app without an ios dev env?
[18:53] <jaywink> optional automatic social media pushing on trophies would be cool :)  <--- lazy
[18:54] <notgary> Not that I'm aware of. I'll look into it and let you know on the mailing list.
[18:54] <jono> jaywink, :-)
[18:54] <janos_> notgary: probably not. on the other hand android is a lot easier, so i'm very much looking forward for that!
[18:54] <notgary> If you have an iOS device then you could install a (read, my) development provisioning profile on the device which means you could run pre-release code signed by me
[18:54] <jono> janos_, maybe one approach is to pass a device=ios string to the site and then it loads the relavant stylesheet
[18:55]  * n8k99 thinks a new accomplishment is installing ubuntu-accomplishments for android
[18:56] <jono> ok, I think we are about out of time
[18:56] <jono> thanks everyone for joining!
[18:56] <n8k99> is it too much scope to think about being able to use this to register meeting other people from the community?
[18:56] <jono> be sure to add #ubuntu-accomplishments to your IRC auto-join :-)
[18:56] <jono> and join the mailing list
[18:56] <jvrbanac> Thanks Jono! will do!
[18:56] <jono> n8k99, that is out of scope :-)
[18:56] <jono> thanks, folks!
[18:57] <jono> #endmeeting
[18:57] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 26 18:57:00 2012 UTC.
[18:57] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-18.00.moin.txt
[18:57] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-26-18.00.html
[18:57] <n8k99> thought so!
[18:57] <janos_> notgary: oh i see, good to know!
[18:58] <notgary> janos_: I have no idea how to distribute my profile, so bare with me :)
[18:58] <janos_> jono: i think we can detect screen size with css selectors, so we can be mobile platform agnostic
[18:59] <janos_> notgary: in any case i'm interested in trying the android anyway! ;)
[19:00] <notgary> I'll get onto that while I'm waiting for the CSS.
[19:00] <janos_> great!
[19:02] <jono> janos_, cool!
[19:06] <janos_> ok guys I'll be on #ubuntu-accomplishments channel