[07:28] <mandel> morning all!
[07:32] <mmcc> hi mandel :)
[07:33] <mandel> mmcc, what are you doing here!
[07:33] <mmcc> mandel, I left you some nice long reviews, feel free to send me angry emails while I go sleep
[07:33] <mandel> mmcc, you could have sent me an email instead of waiting, you know that right?
[07:33] <mandel> hehehe
[07:34] <mmcc> it's only just past midnight here, so I'm just up late catching up. don't get used to it :)
[07:34] <mmcc> heh
[07:34] <mmcc> ok, actually going now. cheers
[07:35] <mandel> mmcc, good night!
[08:41] <JamesTait> Morning all! :)
[09:19] <mandel> tea break :)
[09:52]  * mandel back
[11:42] <ralsina> good morning!
[12:33] <mandel> ralsina, welcome back!
[12:33] <mandel> ralsina, I'm off to have lunch, wanna catch up later?
[12:33] <ralsina> mandel: yes please
[12:33] <ralsina> mandel: buen provecho
[12:34] <mandel> ralsina, thx, I'll be fast = heat food, eat and let the dog pee :)
[12:34] <ralsina> mandel: no rush, don't fall on things, take care ;-)
[12:42] <ralsina> mandel: take your time, I forgot I have a call now for about 30 minutes
[13:21] <mandel> ralsina, I'm back let me know whenever you are free
[13:21] <ralsina> mandel: now is good
[13:21] <ralsina> mandel: mumble?
[13:21] <mandel> ralsina, sure, launching the thing
[13:22] <mandel> ralsina, can you hear me?
[13:22] <ralsina> mandel: no, and no red lips
[13:23] <mandel> ralsina, wierd, I hear you, I see my red lips, see yours.. etc..
[13:23] <mandel> ralsina, ok
[13:28] <dobey> hmm
[13:30] <ralsina> dobey, hi!
[13:31] <dobey> hi
[13:33] <alecu> hello all!
[13:47] <ralsina> hola alecu!
[13:47] <ralsina> alecu: thought you were on vacations!
[13:48] <alecu> ralsina: no, I only took yesterday off since Amelia is on winter vacations and nobody could babysit her.
[13:49] <ralsina> alecu: cool!
[14:00] <ralsina> alecu: I am in catchup mode, can we have our 1-1 in about 30'?
[14:01] <alecu> ralsina: sure
[14:57] <briancurtin> are we doing mumble or hangout?
[14:58] <ralsina> I think I may have to skipit
[14:58]  * alecu readies his pirate captain hat
[14:58] <alecu> oh :-(
[14:58] <ralsina> let's schedule it for tomorrow same bat-time, same bat-channel
[14:58] <briancurtin> sounds good. text standup for now?
[14:59] <dobey> oh, ok then
[15:03] <dobey> if not i'm just going to lunch then :)
[15:03] <briancurtin> me
[15:03] <mmcc> Can't connect to mumble here, is it going on?
[15:04] <briancurtin> mmcc: doing it tomorrow
[15:04] <briancurtin> mmcc: so you have the next 24 hours to figure it out...or else
[15:04] <mmcc> briancurtin: Aha, thx.
[15:04] <dobey> i guess that means we're skipping standup too then
[15:05] <dobey> since nobody else is saying anything?
[15:08] <briancurtin> dobey: EOM before it even started, i guess. enjoy lunch
[15:08] <briancurtin> :)
[15:12] <rye> erm
[15:12] <dobey> ok, lunch time
[15:15] <mandel> briancurtin, ralsina, alecu, dobey, stop porting things to python3 and port the to ChinesePython: http://www.chinesepython.org/home.html
[15:15] <mandel> if you are lazy, someone is translating python in chinese, as 'import sys' is '載入 系統'
[15:19] <diogobaeder> WTF (it would be a WTF in any language other than english)
[15:20] <diogobaeder> mandel, this reminds me of a portuguese version I got for Martin Fowler's "Refactoring" book
[15:20] <diogobaeder> instead of "getPrice", for example, it was "lerPreço". Pretty crappy.
[15:20] <briancurtin> i like that they're still using the super old python.org website look
[15:21] <mandel> diogobaeder, yes, they should not translate IT books.. ins spain is very common, horrible, horrible..
[15:22] <diogobaeder> mandel, +1
[15:24] <diogobaeder> mandel, everytime someone asks me if there's a portuguese version for an IT book originally in english: http://is.gd/MB9tic
[15:25] <diogobaeder> lunch time
[15:38] <alecu> mandel: the "latests news" are from Feb 2004
[15:38] <alecu> mandel: and the latest release is based on python 2.1.3...
[15:39] <alecu> mandel: so, we should keep porting to python3, that already supports all kinds of unicode identifiers
[15:40] <mandel> alecu, but but.. we could get so many community contributions from china! I know is the only reason why they are holding back..
[15:40] <alecu> (and for mandel and diogo's happiness, non-english books with translated identifiers won't be exclusive to Java)!
[15:42] <alecu> "cinco de mayo".índice(3)
[16:05] <mandel> mmcc, I updated https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntuone-fsevents-daemon/remove-arc-dispatcher/+merge/116434 and https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntuone-fsevents-daemon/remove-arc-commsocket/+merge/116439
[16:06] <mandel> mmcc, will get https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntuone-fsevents-daemon/remove-arc-commsocket-server/+merge/116440 done later
[16:06] <mandel> ralsina, alecu, did we completely forget about the stand up?
[16:07] <mmcc> mandel: ok, looking at dispatcher and commsocket now
[16:08] <mandel> herb, i just read the backlog, no standup :P
[16:11] <mmcc> mandel: not important but for future reference, -retain returns self, so you can do foo = [inFoo retain];
[16:12] <mmcc> and interestingly, they've now marked all those ref counting methods as "Obsolete"
[16:13] <mandel> mmcc, since when?
[16:13] <mandel> mmcc, oh, and one question, you still have the 10.6 machine around, right?
[16:14] <mmcc> mandel yes I have it around, why?
[16:14] <mmcc> mandel: I'm not sure when they changed the docs. Might even have been yesterday
[16:14] <mandel> mmcc, because is the only one we have to test it work in 10,6 :)
[16:15] <mmcc> anyway, obsolete != deprecated, just discouraged
[16:15] <briancurtin> crap. LP is still showing prerequisite changes in this diff. that's helpful...
[16:15] <mmcc> mandel: right. for arc removal, I'll have to test with the last branch though since the test bundle doesn't link unless everything is non-arc
[16:15] <mandel> mmcc, yeah, lets keep moving this way but not in a rush, ralsina will talk in the techleads meeting about if we should ignore 10.6 or not
[16:16] <mandel> mmcc, yes, I know, but I though doing all these mini branches was better for the reviewers :)
[16:16] <mmcc> mandel: no, it's good - I'm not complaining
[16:17] <mandel> :)
[16:17] <mandel> herb, we are old schoole, look what twisted has now: from twisted.internet import inotify
[16:18] <mandel> sorry herb, ignore the last message
[16:18]  * mandel curses at his tab
[16:19] <mmcc> mandel: do you just hit tab after every word?
[16:20] <mandel> mmcc, no, but in this case I did for some reason, I wanted just to do 'he'
[16:20] <mandel> I don't understand how I work sometimes..
[16:20] <mmcc> heh.
[16:21] <alecu> mandel, mmcc: I'm thinking of updating to 10.8. Any reasons I shouldn't?
[16:22] <mandel> alecu, bugs, but it would be nice to have an intrepid soul so that we run our tests there :)
[16:22] <mandel> alecu, I might wait 'til 10.8.1
[16:22] <mmcc> alecu: fear of the unknown?
[16:22] <mmcc> but mandel pointed out you can do dual boot if you want
[16:23] <mmcc> so far I've been hearing that 10.8 is reasonably stable, compared to 10.7.0
[16:23] <alecu> ok, here I go.
[16:23] <alecu> btw: this is just awesome:
[16:23] <alecu> Twitter is currently down for <%= reason %>.
[16:23] <alecu> We expect to be back in <%= deadline %>
[16:23] <alecu> https://twitter.com
[16:23] <mmcc> heh, I saw that too.
[16:24] <mandel> alecu, maybe the use gtalk as a backend..
[16:24] <alecu> mandel: lolz
[16:27] <mandel> if youtube and reddit go down the internet might be as productive as it has never been before..
[16:35] <mmcc> mandel: just read your comment in remove-arc-commsocket about self.sockRef being a property. You're right of course, sorry about the confusion. Another reason I don't like properties and dot syntax in ObjC - it confuses old timers like me :)
[16:35] <mandel> mmcc, no problem, I had to think several times about it
[16:36] <mandel> mmcc, lets remove them as a design decision in a later step :)
[16:36] <mmcc> yeah, my complaint is that there's no way to know when you're looking at an assignment if it's going to call a method somewhere or not. You have to go poke at the header file to see if it's a property and what kind of property it is
[16:36] <mmcc> the code looks nice like python but you can't assume it does what you think it should:\
[16:37] <mandel> mmcc, well in python you could also have a property, but having properties with side effects are not good and with arc they do
[16:38] <mandel> mmcc, as in, var is retained etc..
[16:39] <mmcc> right. in python you don't have to worry about what a property call is doing to memory management
[16:41] <mandel> yep yep
[16:42] <mandel> ok, EOD for me I have started rugby training already :-/
[16:42] <mandel> mmcc, see you tonight if you are still up :)
[16:43] <mmcc> heh alright mandel, don't count on it :\
[17:01] <mmcc> hmm, no way to just poke at what certs pyOpenSSL sees by default? I can get_cert_store but the X509Store object it gives me only lets me add
[17:05] <mmcc> context - we are currently just shipping PEM files and loading them from somewhere (/etc/ssl on linux, Common AppData on windows). dobey says I shouldn't just put them in XDG_CONFIG_HOME, which makes sense since we're putting them in a global place on other platforms, but we can't write to the osx global config location without escalating privileges, which isn't OK in a sandbox…
[17:06] <mmcc> we can add certs programmatically, but I wanted to have a way to see which ones we need to install that way
[17:07] <mmcc> in the above, adding programmatically means saving them to the system keychain.
[17:09] <dobey> can we not just load them from the .app internally?
[17:11] <mmcc> dobey: hmm. yes, I guess so. Why don't we do that on Windows?
[17:13] <ralsina> mmcc: on windows we put them inside our app, more or less
[17:14] <mmcc> ralsina: ok, I guess that's what Common AppData means, even though it's not actually with the other files? Definitely still catching up here on windows distribution :)
[17:15] <ralsina> mmcc: I suspect we were following some convention of other. That part was not done by a real windows developer :-)
[17:15] <ralsina> (meaning, I did it)
[17:16] <mmcc> ralsina: heh, ok. So if just loading the cert files from within the app's Resources file is OK, that's a nice easy fix
[17:16] <ralsina> mmcc: yes, it's not meant for general usage anyway, so whatever works
[17:21] <dobey> it would be nice to use the standard system conventions though, and avoid shipping any certs at all
[17:21] <dobey> but, yay cross-platform is pain
[17:21] <mmcc> ralsina: not meant for general usage?
[17:21] <ralsina> mmcc: not for other apps
[17:21] <mmcc> ralsina: oh, ok
[17:41]  * briancurtin pharmacy/lunch
[18:22]  * briancurtin back
[19:29] <dobey> bbiab, gotta run an errand
[19:30] <mmcc> just noticed that the recent filesystem_notifications refactoring is installing the default reactor too soon again. so I'm going for lunch now…
[19:31] <mmcc> going to try to make it a working lunch
[19:31] <mmcc> but will be ask for a bit getting there
[19:31] <mmcc> s/ask/afk
[19:58] <ralsina> mmcc argh
[19:58] <ralsina> that bug will never die
[20:10] <mmcc> ralsina: yep.. the design decision that keeps on givin'
[20:59] <dobey> ralsina: if only we could just drop twisted. et voila, no more default reactor :)
[20:59]  * dobey is having plenty of not-fun at the moment with twisted :-/
[21:01]  * mmcc is right there with you
[21:01] <dobey> thanks to the fun of __import__
[21:01] <ralsina> dobey: if wishes were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas!
[21:01]  * ralsina knows that's not how that goes
[21:02] <dobey> if wishes were candy and nuts, there wouldn't be a christmas
[21:02] <ralsina> dobey: it seems like you need to get in touch with a guy in korea: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/07/the-ips-lcd-revolution.html
[21:03] <dobey> yeah i know, right
[21:03] <dobey> oh wait
[21:03] <ralsina> also, looks like I need to go parenting
[21:03] <dobey> those are 27"
[21:03] <ralsina> dobey: but this is what you really really want: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4298415
[21:05] <dobey> well, on something that doesn't suck so much power, weigh 35 lbs, or be so thick
[21:05] <dobey> i want the new panasonic display, really
[21:05] <mmcc> I knew someone who had one of those IBM suckers. He said it was hard to use anything else after he got used to it
[21:06] <dobey> it is
[21:06] <dobey> same reason i kept my SGI 1600SW for so long
[21:06] <dobey> and it's still sitting in the closet. totally need to sell it
[21:10] <dobey> give me OLED
[21:12] <dobey> anyone know how to make __import__ not break the world?
[21:20] <mmcc> dobey: what's the symptom?
[21:20]  * mmcc promises nothing
[21:21] <dobey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1112654/
[21:21] <dobey> twisted imports not working from something which i'm __import__()ing
[21:24] <mmcc> dobey: am I missing something or should that be globals(), locals() ?
[21:24] <dobey> mmcc: i don't know; but same error happens either way, or if they are None
[21:25] <mmcc> hrm ok…
[21:27] <mmcc> wild guess: is it a relative import name clash? is it looking for twisted.scripts in devtools.runners.twisted.py?
[21:27] <dobey> oh, maybe; but i changed level to 0 and still failed :(
[21:28] <mmcc> hmm
[21:29] <dobey> indeed, renaming got past that issue
[21:31] <dobey> mmcc: thanks
[21:31] <mmcc> dobey: hey, sure. always glad to help with some wild guessing
[21:36] <dobey> :)
[21:37] <dobey> alright, off for now. have a good evening all
[21:45] <mmcc> for the u1client tests, does trial just run each test in a thread? is there a thread pool with a set size?
[21:47] <mmcc> I ask because I'm running the full test suite and it's dying with 'too many open files' right around when it's launched about 250 threads, which makes me very suspicious of a number of things
[21:49] <mmcc> that is, many hundreds of the tests fail because of errno 24, too many open files.
[21:55] <mmcc> in other news this confused me:  from ubuntuone.platform.filesystem_notifications.monitor import (
[21:55] <mmcc>     linux as filesystem_notifications
[21:55] <mmcc> )
[21:55] <mmcc> because I first saw filesystem_notifications.FilesystemMonitor in the code and couldn't figure out where that was coming from.
[22:05] <mmcc> ok, I've fixed that reactor issue, need to test it on windows to be sure, then I'll propose it
[22:05] <mmcc> time to go for now