[00:00] <ailo> len-dt: I was just working on a script to build kernels. Going to set up VM's for both arches for development
[00:01] <ailo> len-dt: I'm on an install that uses noatime for mounting the hard drives
[00:01] <ailo> Not very smooth
[00:02] <ailo> The hard drive has been active for a long time, and more or less freezes the system
[00:06] <ailo> Periodically, that is
[00:11] <ailo> Ah, yeah. My RAM is filled up
[00:12] <ailo> tracker-miner-fs
[02:21] <len-dt> ailo, The bug about jack_control... the kxstudio version had it and fixed it. I don't know if they passed the fix upstream or not. Ask Falktx next time he's on.
[02:58] <ailo> len-dt: I've read about the bug. It's just a missing "(" from a python script
[02:58] <ailo> Someone just added a bug about it
[02:59] <ailo> And we should probably do a SRU with a patch for that
[03:42] <len-dt> ailo, I don't think the version of jack that shipped with 12.04 had that bug.
[03:43] <len-dt> I used jack_control frequently and in fact was the one who reported it to falktx when I found it in the kxstudio version of jackd I had.
[05:42] <len-1210> ailo, with regards to nautilus in 12.10, can you confirm something for me?
[05:42] <len-1210> Everything I tried that opens a file manager opens nautilus, even desktop icons for devices.
[05:45] <len-1210> It appears thunar when used as the desktop or whatever is making device icons on the desktop, uses the user selected file manager.
[05:46] <len-1210> There is a blueprint item to fix this... maybe it is fixed.
[05:47] <len-1210> I also filed a bug report for nautilus: Bug #1029767 
[05:48] <len-1210> Is there a nautilus-doc package we need to install?
[05:50] <len-1210> Confirmed that jack still has stopping problems, does not have the patch kxstudio has, and that jack_control is now broken.
[06:02] <len-1210> ailo, I have an idea, Have a script run as the last thing on session start that looks for .mozilla and if it's no there, starts firefox with a local webpage introducing some of the features. This would create the .mozilla directory and the next session start would not have this feature.
[06:03] <len-1210> This could be the same as what the help button shows.
[06:04] <len-1210> good night.
[10:16] <ailo> len-dt: I also tested the kxstudio version, and got the same issue with that one
[10:16] <ailo> There's no patch
[10:17] <ailo> len-dt: About thunar. It should be a configuration thing. If not Gconf, then, whatever XFCE uses
[10:36] <ailo> len-dt: I had a go at trying to find the bug with the theme, and was able to change some colors. Unfortunately, it seems the change only comes after re-logging in
[10:36] <ailo> So, hunting down the right line can be a bit of work..
[10:59] <ailo> Usually, it would be when changing themes
[11:01] <ailo> Aha, knome is the man to ask about that
[11:02] <ailo> knome: Greybird seems to be in need of some maintenance. Is this inprogress?
[12:15] <ailo> len-dt: I just spoke with nedko about this. Had forgotten about a patch, which did not fix the issue though. http://lists.jackaudio.org/private.cgi/jack-devel-jackaudio.org/2012-April/009417.html
[14:06] <len-dt> ailo, mhwaveedit plays with jackd so much nicer than audacity. It looks like the only downside is that audacity has some of it's own effects.
[14:08] <len-dt> I think the one most people like is the noise reduction effect. However mhwaveedit does use any of the plugin effects we ship.
[14:25] <ailo> audacity is the most popular open source multimedia app in the world, so just for that reason, it makes sense to keep it
[14:25] <ailo> It's actually one of the most popular open source projects
[14:26] <holstein> audacity is out right?
[14:26] <len-dt> Ya, I know. I am thinking mhwaveedit may be something to sugest for people who are having issues with audacity
[14:27] <holstein> i thought that was a bit odd, but i know how to install software from the repo
[14:27] <holstein> im trying to keep quiet on the list about all the "where did my software go" chatter
[14:27] <ailo> len-dt: I just tried mhwaveedit, but don't think it has much compared to audacity
[14:27] <len-dt> holstein, I've added a per/menu installer based on software center that shows just SW for that menu.
[14:28] <holstein> len-dt: i like that
[14:29] <ailo> Audacity is a full fledged audio editor, and while there are a couple of others that come pretty close, function wise, I don't see anything coming close when it comes to user experience
[14:29] <len-dt> I'me trying to make it so we can keep our DVD at a reasonable size while offering an easy way to get what people want for their system
[14:29] <len-dt> Maybe we need to bug the audacity devs about how jack support is done.
[14:30] <ailo> Audacity doesn't need jack support as other software does
[14:30] <len-dt> For some cases it seems to need it.
[14:31] <ailo> Since it's not a DAW
[14:31] <ailo> But, it does work quite well with jack, in my vierw
[14:31] <ailo> view
[14:31] <ailo> Just that it doesn't keep the audio engine running, while stopped
[14:31] <len-dt> We were talking to a user a while ago who uses channels 3&4 for input. Try that with pulse or jack
[14:32] <ailo> len-dt: If you remember, all he needed to do was create a conneciton profile
[14:32] <ailo> There are other jack compatible applications that do the same thing
[14:32] <len-dt> It didn't work in the end.
[14:32] <ailo> It did
[14:33] <len-dt> portaudio kept opening different named ports every time. So the first run worked great.
[14:33] <len-dt> the second record try failed.
[14:37] <ailo> You're right. It makes new outputs each time
[14:37] <len-dt> Anyway I was not suggesting to get rid of audacity, if for no other reason than everyone has seen it no matter what os they come from.
[14:38] <len-dt> I am thinking... use Audacity->pulse->jack. The connection from pulse to jack can be setup 1&2 to 3&4 quite easliy
[14:39] <ailo> That would work
[14:39] <ailo> Weird about the channel numbers. 
[14:39] <len-dt> And a connection profile should do that. I/we need to find out more about pulse setup.
[14:39] <ailo> It is possible to create more jack sinks for PA
[14:39] <len-dt> Some cards have mic pres in C1&2 or use 1&2 for spdiff
[14:39] <ailo> vaev did that
[14:40] <ailo> But, wouldn't the easiest way be just to create a profile in qjackctl?
[14:40] <len-dt> Ack!, One is enough
[14:40] <len-dt> The only problem is that there seem to be a lot of things that make pulse redo its connections
[14:42] <len-dt> I found that I would do a disconect all to get all the pulse-jack stuff out of the way. But if I plug in a usb midi IF all the PA-jack stuff reconnects.
[14:42] <ailo> If you have an active jack profile, the connections will stay the same
[14:43] <len-dt> Good. So I can't manually change or add things?
[14:43] <ailo> Er, not sure..
[14:43] <ailo> Haven't used it much
[14:43] <ailo> Going to try vlc now
[14:45] <len-dt> Every time an application opens a PA port, PA changes my D66 patchbay settings.
[14:46] <len-dt> If I have the monitor mixer set up for monitoring PA switches it to dac straight out.
[14:47] <len-dt> PA also resets levels on the card.
[14:47] <ailo> Seems like the program autoconnects, if it set to do so. vlc can be set to not auto connect
[14:47] <ailo> So, if I have a profile, the profile connections will be set each time, but there will also be an auto connect to outputs 1-2
[14:48] <ailo> Would be good to have a toggle for autoconnect y/n for audacity as well
[14:49] <len-dt> Audacity when in Jack mode, should connect at session start and not dissconnect till the program closes.
[14:49] <ailo> If it was designed to do that, yes
[14:50] <len-dt> It should be. That is the proper way to work with jack
[14:50] <len-dt> It is not a bad way to work with pulse either. But it would not work so well with ALSA dirrect.
[14:51] <ailo> The problem seems to be that the jack part is just an adapter 
[14:51] <ailo> Someone just needs to write the code
[14:51] <len-dt> As far as I can tell audacity uses portaudio for all it's output.
[14:52] <len-dt> I think it makes things easy for using the same code linux/win/osx
[14:53] <ailo> What shows up in jack, is of course not portaudio
[14:53] <len-dt> I don't know if audacity restarts portaudio every time the record button gets hit or not.
[14:53] <ailo> But, as said, the jack code is just an adapter for the inner engine
[14:55] <len-dt> Inmy pannel in jack it says portaudio
[14:55] <len-dt> In fact it does not say audacity at all
[14:56]  * len-dt should say in the qjackctl connection pannel
[14:56] <ailo> Well, last time I checked, only jack can connect to jack
[14:57] <ailo> There's jack code in Audacity, but it's very rudimentary
[14:57] <ailo> They don't work on it themselves, it seems
[14:57] <ailo> http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Linux_Issues#JACK
[14:58] <ailo> When you use alsa as a driver, it's not portaudio. The Audacity ports are called portaudio, and perhaps Audacity uses portaudio design for it's inner workings
[14:58] <ailo> But the connection with jack is jack code
[14:59] <ailo> I tried seeing if it was possible to run portaudio on Linux a while back. 
[14:59] <ailo> Not out of the box, anyway
[15:01] <len-dt> That webpage about sums it up all right
[15:04] <len-dt> That was what I liked about mhwaveedit. As soon as the program starts, jack gets connected and stays that way.
[15:05] <len-dt> How hard is it to do it that way? I wish my coding was better, I might patch audacity
[15:06] <ailo> len-dt: You could look up some tutorials. There's a bit on jack homepage, and a guy on LAU was going to make some linux audio coding tutorials
[15:07] <len-dt> As soon as Jack is selected in pref. the jack port should open and stay that way. record or playback should just send receive audio when  it needs to. This would require something running all the time sending silence or receiving and throwing away input.
[15:08] <ailo> len-dt: https://github.com/harryhaaren/openAudioProgrammingTutorials
[15:08] <ailo> If I would guess, creating a true jack interface might be a bit of work
[15:09] <len-dt> Yes.
[15:09] <ailo> While adressing two other issues might be simpler: 1. don't create new output numbers each time Audacity output spawns 2. Add a toggle for auto connecting
[15:11] <len-dt> I think the workaround for those using non-standard ports is to use pa-jack with a profile
[15:11] <len-dt> any other use just use pulse.
[15:12] <len-dt> Audacity is very useful, in its place. It is not a good multi-tracker or over dubbing app.
[15:13] <len-dt> It is a great recorder though, and wav editor.
[15:14] <ailo> It is primarily an editor
[15:14] <ailo> A great tool for dealing with audio, not that great for creating music
[15:15] <ailo> The only situation where creating music makes sense is when you are not using tempo or harmony at all. Just audio
[15:16] <ailo> Recording is less important, but would be strange not to have that
[15:16] <ailo> Usually you work with prerecorded material, when editing
[15:31] <len-dt> Ya, that is why pulse or pa-jack would be fine.
[15:31] <ailo> That's my view as well
[15:32] <len-dt> I will include the other mhwaveedit as an installable if people want to install it after the fact.
[15:32] <ailo> Is the menu going to be full of "install-this" now?
[15:33] <ailo> Or is it a part of a search pattern for Software Center?
[15:33] <ailo> len-dt: ^
[15:33] <ailo> I mean, where you only have one "install-more"
[15:34] <len-dt> Each menu would have one (and only one) install more icon.
[15:34] <ailo> I installed two virtual vbox studios now, that share the home folder, so I can work on the same stuff from one desktop
[15:34] <ailo> len-dt: Sounds cool
[15:35] <ailo> Pretty practical with virtual systems really. Easy to back them up
[15:35] <ailo> Just save snapshots now and then
[15:35] <len-dt> It has been pushed to default-settings. Just needs to be rerolled
[15:36] <len-dt> I need to do some work on the seeds. photogrphy needs its own meta and DTP needs to be created.
[15:36] <ailo> I'll be contininuing with testing scripts
[15:38] <len-dt> Audacity... now that I have been running it for a bit... most of the menu bar seems to vanish at some point...
[15:38] <len-dt> I have half of the file button
[15:40] <len-dt> It doesn't seem to be a display problem, minimize and unminimize don't seem to help and I only have acces to the file menu
[15:45] <knome> ailo, did you try the github version?
[15:46] <ailo> knome: Nope. I did notice that Greybird was not the only affected theme. gtk3 issues on most of them
[15:46] <knome> ailo, try the github version. it should have most things fixed
[15:46] <ailo> knome: Ok
[15:46] <knome> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
[15:47] <ailo> Thanks
[15:49] <knome> np
[15:55] <len-dt> ailo, re vanishing audacity menubar. The audacity website says:
[15:55] <len-dt> (Linux) On Linux systems using wxGTK 2.8.12 without Unity, closing Preferences will lead to loss of the Audacity Menu Bar (only "Fi" from "Files" will be visible). On Ubuntu using the Unity shell, a small black square will appear, but the Audacity menu in the Global Menu is unaffected. Workaround: Resize (or maximize/unmaximize) the Audacity window after closing Preferences. Solution: This is a wxGTK bug, as reported here (http://trac.wxwidgets.or
[15:55] <len-dt> g/ticket/13280) and fixed in changeset 67929 (http://trac.wxwidgets.org/changeset/67929). To resolve this problem, wxGTK 2.8.12 needs to be patched on the target system, ideally by updating the distribution package. This fix will be included in wxGTK 2.8.13
[16:02] <len-dt> falktx, I am playing around with software center to set up installers in menus to add extra software. The SW center doc says I can include an apt-url. I would like to try including some of the apps on kxstudio
[16:02] <len-dt> Is there a url where I can see the dep files on my browser?
[16:03] <falktx> hm?
[16:03] <falktx> apt:/ stuiff?
[16:03] <len-dt> I think SW-C needs the complete url right down to the file name. probably the https:// one
[16:04] <len-dt> but apt:// might work too.
[16:04] <len-dt> And then I might run out of command line room real quick :-)
[16:08] <ailo> len-dt: Just make sure it's clear to the user, that it's a question about unofficial PPA packages, and that it has links to what that means
[16:09] <ailo> Would be cool if PPA could be added from SW
[16:09] <ailo> Or just single packages
[16:09] <ailo> Software Center, not SW
[16:10] <ailo> It should probably be possible to create a package for adding PPA
[16:10] <ailo> And upload it to the Ubuntu repo
[16:11] <ailo> But, again. It's important that the user knows it's not official
[16:16] <ailo> len-dt: If you go to a PPA page on launchpad, you can always download packages inpedently from there.
[16:17] <ailo> Works fine, if you don't require dependencies
[16:17] <ailo> In that case, adding a PPA would be the best
[16:17] <ailo> I don't think a KXstudio PPA is the optimal, or not sure
[16:17] <ailo> Would be better to have at least two different ones
[16:17] <ailo> One for adding software we don't have, and one for updates
[18:44] <len-dt> ailo, I see what you mean. The chances of not needing deps is pretty small.
[18:45] <len-dt> It is best to include the name of the packages (which just don't show if the PPA is not active) and have another way of adding/removing ppas
[18:46] <len-dt> I think it would need to be ubuntustudio specific. Something in a script would be best, or better than new software.
[19:35] <micahg> no including PPAs in the default install :)
[19:35] <micahg> if something needs to be fixed, let's fix it
[19:36]  * micahg would love to see the KXstudio people pushing fixes into the archive
[19:36] <micahg> or even better to Debian
[20:22] <ailo> micahg: I think we're just fooling around with ideas so far, but there has been an idea of keeping official Ubuntu Studio PPA's as addable extras
[20:23] <ailo> There are some software that aren't included in the main repo
[20:23] <ailo> Don't know the specifics of licenses, etc. How that would work
[20:29] <ailo> Still, it's fun just to see what different solutions you can come up with. Adding a PPA from the menu might seem a bit drastic. But, how is it, if you would create a package specifically for it, that would show up in Software Center
[20:29] <ailo> There are PPA's and PPA's after all
[20:33] <micahg> ailo: I'd suggest pushing them to Debian and leveraging backports, more users will benefit
[20:33] <ailo> micahg: We can't push things like linux-sampler
[20:33] <micahg> why not?
[20:33] <ailo> gpl, with an addition..
[20:34] <micahg> is it redistributable?
[20:34] <ailo> I don't remember the specifics, but I'm sure it would have been pushed a long time ago, if it was possible.
[20:35] <ailo> All it's tools are redistritable, but not the linux-sampler server itself, at least not without some conditions
[20:35] <ailo> I think mostly they are trying to avoid companies adding it to hardware samplers
[20:36] <micahg> so, it would go in non-free then
[20:36] <ailo> There's also cinerella
[20:36] <ailo> Same sort of dilemma
[20:37] <micahg> debian 561443, free for the taking
[20:38] <micahg> I'd suggest joining Debian multimedia and preparing packages
[20:38] <ailo> I guess so..
[20:38] <ailo> I'm going that path
[20:41] <micahg> this way every derivative of Debian can have access to these packages as opposed to those who happen upon a PPA
[20:42] <ailo> Yes, of course. I've read about linux-sampler in the past, and something about why it had not been packaged yet
[20:43] <ailo> But, doesn't hurt putting some focus on the issue
[20:54] <micahg> Len-nb: need a meta upload?
[20:54] <micahg> or do you have more changes you're making (the photography seed looks good)
[21:01] <Len-nb> micahg, I was going to see how that went, but if you like I can do the publishing meta first
[21:01] <micahg> Len-nb: whatever you like
[21:02] <micahg> each new binary requires a NEW  queue review
[21:02] <Len-nb> If I do this first, then there will be another quite soon
[21:02] <micahg> right, so, when you're ready, let's just upload it all so it only needs 1 review
[21:02] <Len-nb> new binary added to the seeds?
[21:02] <micahg> yeah
[21:03] <micahg> it'll show up in binary NEW after upload and it's built
[21:03] <Len-nb> I haven't added any new binary so far, just finished what was supposed to be done last cycle
[21:03] <micahg> ubuntustudio-photography will be a new binary
[21:03] <Len-nb> OK, I will add publishing first then
[21:04] <Len-nb> Then there will be two
[21:04] <micahg> hrm, I just found a bug in the packaging as well :-/
[21:06] <Len-nb> mine or old?
[21:06] <micahg> old
[21:07] <Len-nb> anything I should fix? (or would know how?)
[21:08] <micahg> no, it should be fixed on the next upload
[21:08] <micahg> it's not in the seed, but in the -meta packaging, one of the substitution variables is wrong
[21:10] <Len-nb> ok, should I still add publishing now then?
[21:11] <micahg> at your leisure, I should probably review the whole thing in depth before I upload which won't happen before Monday
[21:11] <Len-nb> Ok thanks
[21:13] <Len-nb> micahg, in case you haven't noticed ubuntustudio-default-settings is changed too. (again) I think I'm finished for now on that.
[21:15] <micahg> nope, haven't noticed, can try to look at it Mon or Tue
[21:15] <micahg> I'm only subscribed to the seeds
[21:15] <Len-nb> whenever.
[22:07] <Len-nb> micahg, that should be it.
[22:07] <micahg> ok
[22:07]  * Len-nb means for the seeds
[22:34] <len-dt> ailo, do you still have a machine running quantal? If so, could you check if after making a new directory on the desktop, if you double click on it if it gets opened by nautilus?
[22:35] <len-dt> I think that is the only thunar to nautilus thing I haven't checked.
[22:35]  * len-dt is off for family time.