[17:34] <patrickdickey> I'm here, but will be afk for about 20 minutes or so.
[17:58] <patrickdickey> Hi Paddy.
[17:58] <PaddyLandau> Hello godbyk and patrickdickey
[17:59] <patrickdickey> hi godbyk
[17:59] <godbyk> Greetings
[17:59] <PaddyLandau> Shall we start?
[17:59] <patrickdickey> Sure thing.
[17:59] <godbyk> Sure.
[17:59] <godbyk> #startmeeting
[17:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Jul 28 17:59:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is godbyk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:59] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:00] <godbyk> There we go. Now we're all official. :-)
[18:00] <PaddyLandau> LOL, excellent!
[18:00] <patrickdickey> :)
[18:00] <PaddyLandau> First thing: We are here to discuss the technical possibilities for the website.
[18:00] <PaddyLandau> We've had some excellent discussions via email.
[18:00] <PaddyLandau> For the record, shall we summarise what we've done so far?
[18:00] <godbyk> That sounds like a good idea.
[18:00] <patrickdickey> Yep.
[18:00] <PaddyLandau> OK...
[18:01] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey and I have looked at WordPress for the simple reason that it is such a simple system, because godbyk has found it increasingly difficult given the current non-CMS website.
[18:01] <PaddyLandau> The website needs to be easy to maintain, and easy to keep translations.
[18:02] <PaddyLandau> So far, we have found a promising system and it works well -- I have set up a test website -- but it does have a couple of problems.
[18:02] <PaddyLandau> The biggest one is an email we've just had that started to discuss comparing old and new versions for the translators.
[18:02] <PaddyLandau> What have I left out?
[18:03] <godbyk> I think that sums things up fairly well, PaddyLandau.
[18:03] <godbyk> The biggest difficulty with our site is handling the translations, I think.
[18:03] <patrickdickey> That pretty much sums it up I think. I am/was looking at seeing how the current test site will look in WordPress, in case we decide that we like the look of it. Or parts of it.
[18:04] <godbyk> Being able to publish new manuals to the site is another issue.
[18:04] <PaddyLandau> Publishing manuals to the website would be simple. (1) Upload the new manuals to a pre-agreed folder. (2) Update the website to point to the new manuals.
[18:04] <patrickdickey> How does that happen in the current site? I mean do they download it from the site or does it get downloaded from somewhere else?
[18:05] <godbyk> The way it works with the current site:
[18:05] <godbyk> 1. I generate the final PDFs and upload them to our site.
[18:05] <godbyk> 2. I hand-edit the PHP scripts (live, 'cause I'm crazy like that) to:
[18:05] <godbyk> a. Bump  the version number.
[18:06] <godbyk> b. Add the new manual to the list of dropdown menus on the downloads page.
[18:06] <godbyk> c. Add a link to the Lulu print edition.
[18:06] <godbyk> (Uploading the PDF to Lulu and creating a printed edition is another process entirely.)
[18:06] <godbyk> d. Hope I didn't break anything along the way.
[18:06] <PaddyLandau> There is a link from the website to Lulu, isn't there?
[18:07] <godbyk> It used to be much more difficult than it is now. I've rewritten a lot of the PHP to simplify my life.
[18:07] <godbyk> There is. You can click on a 'buy this book' badge on the front page to link to the lulu site.
[18:08] <PaddyLandau> WordPress does have a nice advantage about breaking things: It lets you preview your changes before you commit, so you can test it to your heart's content before you press "Update".
[18:08] <patrickdickey> If someone clicks that link, does it take them to the manual in their language? And is that handled on our site or on lulu?
[18:08] <godbyk> I think WordPress will work well for the content of the site: instructions for installing LaTeX, using bzr, etc.; info about what we do; and so on.
[18:09] <godbyk> I suspect that we'll need to write a separate system to manage the publishing of the manuals.
[18:09] <godbyk> But we could have the publishing system tie into the WordPress database for usernames/passwords/permissions to help keep things in sync.
[18:09] <godbyk> patrickdickey: That's handled by our site.
[18:10] <godbyk> When you go to http://ubuntu-manual.org/buy/[manual edition]/[language code], it looks up the proper Lulu URL to forward you to.
[18:10] <patrickdickey> So, we need to figure out how to get the language code from either the browser or Q-Translate, and add that to the download link?
[18:10] <godbyk> This bit of redirection allows us to delete a Lulu book and republish it if there's some major error.
[18:11] <godbyk> patrickdickey: Right. We'll need to get the language code from somewhere.
[18:11] <PaddyLandau> godbyk, I suspect that all we would need is a little bit of PHP code in the WordPress post, or attached to the WordPress post.
[18:11] <patrickdickey> My understanding is that Q-Translate gets it from the browser (or from the language switcher). So it should be stored somewhere in the plugin.
[18:11] <PaddyLandau> Indeed.
[18:12] <PaddyLandau> We can test this out fairly easily, and I am sure it won't be hard.
[18:12] <godbyk> I don't expect it'd be difficult to get the language code somehow.
[18:13] <godbyk> On the WordPress side of things..
[18:13] <PaddyLandau> It's on the URL, so we can easily use that. Preferably, use a drop-down menu that allows choosing any of the translated manuals.
[18:13] <godbyk> Let's say I have a page similar to http://ubuntu-manual.org/about
[18:13] <godbyk> That page hasn't been edited in eons, but it'll serve as an example here.
[18:13] <godbyk> If I modify the text of the English edition of that page, what happens?
[18:13] <godbyk> How do the translators know that they need to update their translation for that page?
[18:14] <godbyk> And what is the experience like for translators?
[18:14] <PaddyLandau> OK, let's answer your questions one by one.
[18:14] <patrickdickey> I think it depends on which option we select in Q-Translate. It automatically translates the page, either through the mo files or via a human translator if we have an account.
[18:15] <PaddyLandau> If you modify the text of the English edition using WordPress and not Poedit (we'll come to that later), you simply see the new version. The translated version is *not* modified.
[18:15] <PaddyLandau> There is no automatic way to alert the translators.
[18:15] <PaddyLandau> However, if we use Poedit and .mo files, I need to find out much more about the process before I can answer that.
[18:15] <PaddyLandau> I know nothing whatsoever about them.
[18:16] <PaddyLandau> The experience for the translators: Using the built-in WordPress system, they would see their posts just as you and I do.
[18:16] <PaddyLandau> Would it help to have a look right now at the test system?
[18:16] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Sure!
[18:16] <PaddyLandau> OK...
[18:17] <PaddyLandau> First, go to http://u.yddal.info/ -- that is the test website.
[18:17] <PaddyLandau> Only the "Home" link has been translated, into four languages (including a pretend language that I set up).
[18:17] <PaddyLandau> You can see (say) the Chinese link with http://u.yddal.info/zh
[18:18] <PaddyLandau> You will see a couple of places that have not been translated, and they need to be ironed out.
[18:18] <PaddyLandau> Now for the Administration side, so that you can see how it works (patrickdickey, I think you already know how).
[18:19] <PaddyLandau> First, go to http://u.yddal.info/wp-admin
[18:19] <PaddyLandau> You will receive the first of two security notices.
[18:19] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey, I forgot to send you your details.
[18:19] <PaddyLandau> I'll Skype them to you right now.
[18:20] <patrickdickey> Thanks. I'm also posting our questions to the Q-Translate forum, so if I seem like I've disappeared, that's why.
[18:20] <PaddyLandau> np
[18:21] <PaddyLandau> Then you get to the second security login, which you should have received via email. If you don't have it, let me know and I'll get it out to you again.
[18:21] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Okay, I've logged in to the wp-admin. I'm at the wp control panel now.
[18:21] <PaddyLandau> There are two steps to prevent hacking.
[18:21] <PaddyLandau> Right, godbyk. Click on Posts on the far left side.
[18:22] <PaddyLandau> Now, hover your mouse over Testing Languages (that is a post I created)...
[18:22] <PaddyLandau> ... and click Edit underneath it.
[18:22] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Got it.
[18:22] <PaddyLandau> The titles come one after another; not terribly convenient, but it's what we have.
[18:23] <PaddyLandau> Underneath all of that you have the post. Above the post are tabs for English, Français, Nederlands, etc.
[18:23] <PaddyLandau> Just click on them to see the other languages.
[18:23] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Can the site title and tagline be translated, too?
[18:23] <PaddyLandau> And amend as you see fit!
[18:23] <PaddyLandau> On the right you should see "Preview Changes", which lets you preview the page without committing; and there's the Update button, which does commit.
[18:25] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey and I were discussing the title and tagline.
[18:25] <PaddyLandau> We have a workaround for that.
[18:25] <godbyk> 'kay.
[18:25] <PaddyLandau> Most of it is dead easy, most of the rest is easy, but we'll need a few bits of harder set-up. What I want to avoid is customisations that would break when WordPress is updated.
[18:26] <PaddyLandau> Major updates come (I believe) annually, with security updates every month or so.
[18:26] <godbyk> Right.
[18:27] <PaddyLandau> Feel free to play. The entire site has been backed up, so the worst that can happen is I spend ten minutes restoring it.
[18:27] <godbyk> Is there a way to export these posts from WordPress to a .pot file?
[18:27] <godbyk> The .pot files are what we upload to Launchpad so translators can translate things there.
[18:27] <godbyk> Then we download .po files which contain the translated text.
[18:27] <godbyk> (The .pot file is basically just a file with a list of strings that need to be translated.
[18:28] <godbyk> The .po file is the same .pot file but also includes the translations.)
[18:28] <PaddyLandau> I see. No, I don't think you can export them, but you can copy-and-paste. According to the documentation, however, qTranslate can import .mo files. That is one area where I am still trying to find out how it is done.
[18:28] <godbyk> Okay, Launchpad can also give us .mo files instead of .po files.
[18:28] <godbyk> I think the .mo files are the same as the .po files but are a binary format that is more efficient.
[18:28] <PaddyLandau> Is it important to retain the Launchpad method? For example, for records and to alert the translators?
[18:28] <PaddyLandau> If it is, I'll have to check out the .mo files.
[18:29] <patrickdickey> Are the po files simply translations, or do they also have the style guides included?
[18:29] <godbyk> (I'm just guessing about the format of the .mo files. I know I can't easily read them in a text editor like I can .po files.)
[18:29] <patrickdickey> I think the .mo files are just machine compiled versions of the .po files.
[18:29] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Well, the benefits of using Launchpad are: translators already hang out there. So they'll be alerted when something is updated and needs to be translated.
[18:29] <godbyk> They're already familiar with how the Launchpad translation system works.
[18:30] <godbyk> They get karma points (not sure if this is a big deal or not).
[18:30] <PaddyLandau> OK. patrickdickey asked if the po files contain style guides?
[18:30] <godbyk> They can see if the site is fully translated or still needs work.
[18:30] <godbyk> And so on.
[18:30] <PaddyLandau> OK, so we want to retain the Launchpad with the .mo files.
[18:30] <godbyk> I suspect that we'll have a lot fewer translators who want to log in to our site directly to translate the text.
[18:31] <godbyk> patrickdickey: I'm not sure what you mean by style guides. The .po files contain the original (untranslated) text and the translated text.
[18:31] <PaddyLandau> But no formatting?
[18:31] <patrickdickey> Question. Are we talking about just the actual website here, or the manual? Because the manual should stay on launchpad (as far as making and translating it).
[18:31] <PaddyLandau> The website. Not the manual.
[18:31] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: For the manual, for instance, the translated strings contain LaTeX code just as the English strings do.
[18:32] <PaddyLandau> Ah. I do not believe that WordPress uses LaTeX.
[18:32] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: So we'd have to export the HTML formatting and they'd maintain that formatting during the translation process.
[18:32] <godbyk> patrickdickey: This is just about the website.
[18:32] <PaddyLandau> OK, in the post in the Admin side, you'll see two tabs: Visual and HTML. You can swap between them. So it's OK to use HTML for formatting.
[18:32] <godbyk> I can show you how the manual translation works in Launchpad and that might help.
[18:33] <PaddyLandau> OK
[18:33] <godbyk> The same system would work for the website (assuming we can get the info out of WordPress and into Launchpad.)
[18:33] <godbyk> If you go here <https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/>, you'll see the front page of the manual's translation site.
[18:33] <godbyk> You can click on the column headings to sort them.
[18:33] <godbyk> So clicking on the Status heading a couple times will sort by translation progress.
[18:34] <godbyk> You can see that the Greek translation is coming along quite well as is the Russian translation.
[18:34] <PaddyLandau> Yes, I can see now that Launchpad is most useful.
[18:34] <godbyk> If we click on English (UK), it'll take us to here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/precise/+pots/ubuntu-manual/en_GB/+translate
[18:34] <godbyk> This is where the translators do their work.
[18:35] <godbyk> They see the original English text, and they write their translation in the big text box.
[18:35] <PaddyLandau> Can we see the Launchpad site for the website translations?
[18:36] <godbyk> Sure
[18:36] <godbyk> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/
[18:36] <PaddyLandau> Yes, I see the HTML there.
[18:36] <PaddyLandau> It looks good.
[18:37] <godbyk> Yep.
[18:37] <godbyk> The vast majority of the formatting is handled outside the translated strings.
[18:37] <godbyk> But some of the text will contain formatting such as <i>, <b>, etc.
[18:37] <godbyk> (Things we can separate without breaking the sentence into lots of little fragments.)
[18:38] <godbyk> And the translators are generally pretty good at handling that sort of thing.
[18:38] <godbyk> If the qTranslate system doesn't allow us to translate the site title and tagline, we can probably handle that from the template side.
[18:38] <godbyk> So we can use the same sort of translation setup we have with the current website.
[18:39] <PaddyLandau> BTW, <i> and <b> are supposed to be replaced with <em> and <strong>.
[18:39] <patrickdickey> So, what we need to find out is if we create the .mo files for each page on the site, will Q-Translate import them in, and generate the pages for us?
[18:39] <PaddyLandau> Yes...
[18:39] <PaddyLandau> All right. We have determined that Launchpad is important to keep.
[18:39] <godbyk> We'd extract those strings into a .pot file, upload it to launchpad, download the translations, and php will look up the translations each time it displays that page.
[18:39] <PaddyLandau> Would WordPress (as you have seen it so far) be acceptable if we can import .mo files into WordPress, and replace them when they change?
[18:39] <godbyk> We also need to see if qTranslate will generate a .pot file for Launchpad.
[18:40] <patrickdickey> Of all the pages on the site, about the only one that would change is the instructions right?
[18:40] <godbyk> Otherwise we might have to write some code to do that ourselves.
[18:40] <PaddyLandau> Caveat: At this stage, it seems as though we would have to copy-and-paste the English (US) into the WordPress site to start off with; and then, when making changes, copy-and-paste the English (US) from WordPress into Launchpad.
[18:40] <PaddyLandau> I don't know that we can export to .pot, but I'll find out.
[18:40] <godbyk> We update the instructions fairly regularly (though I'm trying to move a lot of that to the style guide).
[18:40] <patrickdickey> Actually, I don't think we need to worry about that. If we can import the .mo files from launchpad, then we just do it all there and upload it to the site.
[18:40] <PaddyLandau> Unfortunately, I suspect now.
[18:40] <godbyk> We should start updating the contributors page, too.
[18:40] <PaddyLandau> Unfortunately, I suspect not.
[18:40] <godbyk> The jobs page gets updated every once in a while.
[18:41] <godbyk> Some of the other pages might start getting tweaked more frequently if the system were easier to use. :)
[18:41] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: Say I make a change to the jobs page. Would it be possible to simply copy-and-paste those changes to Launchpad? Or does it have to have a .pot file to import?
[18:41] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: If they can't export to .pot, how do they get the .mo files? I mean, where do they assume the .mo files are coming from?
[18:42] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: It has to be a .pot file.
[18:42] <PaddyLandau> How do you currently create a .pot file for the website? Suppose you create a new page, "Ubuntu Widgets" or something?
[18:42] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: I have no idea. I've never done it. So the translations are sadly out of date for our current site.
[18:43] <PaddyLandau> Right. That's the first point of attack, then.
[18:43] <PaddyLandau> I have two suggestions...
[18:43] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: I think that Adnane (irc: daker) ran a script that generated the .pot file, but I haven't taken the time to dig around for it yet.
[18:43] <patrickdickey> Here are the questions that I'm going to ask on the Q-Translate forum. Let me know if they need to be changed, or if I need any more.
[18:43] <patrickdickey> 1.  Is the language code stored somewhere (whichever language Q-Translate is using at the time)? We use this code to determine the language the download is offered in.
[18:43] <patrickdickey> 2.  When a page is edited, does it get automatically retranslated, or do we have to do anything to have that happen?
[18:43] <patrickdickey> 3.  As part of our project, we have translators available. Are they able to edit the translated pages at all, or are the pages locked with whatever translation Q-Translate gives us?
[18:43] <patrickdickey> 3a. If the translators are able to edit the pages, how would they do that?
[18:43] <patrickdickey> 4.  Are we able to translate the pages offsite, and import them via .mo files into the site?
[18:44] <godbyk> i don't think that (2) applies since we'll be having human translators doing the work.
[18:44] <PaddyLandau> 2. I do not think that qTranslate automatically translates anything on the user side. The automatic translations are for the Administration side. Notice the language tabs on the left side in the Administration side.
[18:44] <PaddyLandau> 3. Not applicable.
[18:45] <godbyk> For (4), Launchpad can provide both .mo files and .po files.  It requires that we import from a .pot file.
[18:45] <PaddyLandau> 3a. As I explained earlier. Did you go into the Administration side at all, patrickdickey?
[18:45] <patrickdickey> Not yet. I'm just about to do that right now.
[18:46] <PaddyLandau> 4. The answer is yes, it takes .mo files. I think what needs asking is *how* to import .mo files into the system. I need to find that out. I have sample .mo files that Kevin got to me.
[18:46] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: When I click on those languages in the admin panel, it doesn't appear to have any effect.
[18:46] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: That is strange. It changes the language in the administration section. It takes a couple of seconds.
[18:47] <PaddyLandau> Are you still on the Posts section? It is working for m.e
[18:47] <PaddyLandau> Are you still on the Posts section? It is working for me.
[18:47] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Ah, I see it now. It just wasn't translated the stuff I happened to be looking at.
[18:48] <PaddyLandau> Oh... I see some languages have not been fully translated! That's why!
[18:48] <PaddyLandau> If you click Chinese, you'll see big changes.
[18:49] <PaddyLandau> I was going to provide some suggestions regarding the .pot files.
[18:49] <PaddyLandau> I have two suggestions.
[18:49] <PaddyLandau> (1) Find out how to create a .pot file from some text. If this is easy, there may well be a plug-in. I will search tomorrow.
[18:51] <PaddyLandau> (2) Change the set-up for Launchpad so that instead of providing the text, it merely provides a flag for each page: "translated" or "not translated". Let translators sign into WordPress to make the changes. (I do not think that this suggestion would be suitable, though.)
[18:51] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Yeah, I think (1) would be best.
[18:51] <PaddyLandau> Me too.#
[18:51] <patrickdickey> Do we have .mo files for some of the pages already in launchpad?
[18:52] <godbyk> I'll poke around and figure out how to generate the .pot file for our current (ancient) website.
[18:52] <godbyk> We may need to use the same technique with our WordPress template.
[18:52] <PaddyLandau> OK. If it is a simple text-to-.pot thing, I would be able to write a piece of PHP to do this. Can you get me a sample .pot file to look at?
[18:53] <godbyk> patrickdickey: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/trunk/+export
[18:53] <godbyk> Change "PO format" to "MO format" and click Request Download.
[18:53] <patrickdickey> Quick thing. Preview one of the pages, and look in the footer.
[18:53] <godbyk> patrickdickey: Launchpad will send you an email in a few minutes with a download link.
[18:54] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: The .pot file format is pretty easy. Look in the precise ubuntu manual repository.. in the po/ subdir is a pot file for the manual.
[18:54] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: If you request the downloads from Launchpad, it'll send along the .pot file with the .po or .mo files you requested.
[18:55] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: Ah, I see I do indeed have .pot files.
[18:55] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: I found another potentially-useful link: http://many.at/wordpresslocalisation/translating-wordpress/
[18:56] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: which page did you want us to preview?
[18:56] <patrickdickey> It doesn't matter. If you look in the footer, there are flags so the viewer can translate it to their language.
[18:57] <PaddyLandau> Sorry, patrickdickey, which website?
[18:57] <patrickdickey> On the test site.
[18:58] <godbyk> patrickdickey: Is that just for previewing? How can they change the language on the site itself when they're browsing it?
[18:58] <patrickdickey> That's for them to change the language. it's a widget that's provided by Q-Translate for the viewer.  The language selector.
[18:59] <PaddyLandau> Yes, that is only for previewing. That is one area that Patrick and I have not yet found -- how to present that to the normal viewer. It's on our "To Do" list.
[19:00] <patrickdickey> It's actually for the viewer. I just opened a different browser, and the flags are in the footer.
[19:00] <PaddyLandau> qTranslate does have this option, which I have enabled: "Detect the language of the browser and redirect accordingly." Does anyone have a proxy from a non-English country to test this?
[19:00] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Fair enough.
[19:01] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: Cool!
[19:01] <PaddyLandau> I wonder why I don't see it when signed in?
[19:01] <patrickdickey> I'm not sure on that.
[19:01] <PaddyLandau> I think we need to move it nearer the top of the page, though. Sitting at the bottom is not friendly.
[19:02] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Nice. Our current site tries to detect the language, too, I think.
[19:02] <PaddyLandau> We need a proxy to test this. Where can we use a proxy from, say, France or China?
[19:03] <godbyk> You can probably modify a browser setting to request a particular language.
[19:03] <patrickdickey> I think we need the browser to be set in a separate language.
[19:03] <godbyk> I don't think they're going to try to detect your language based on IP address.
[19:03] <godbyk> It's probably using the browser's user-agent string and/or an http header.
[19:04] <PaddyLandau> Do you know how to do this in Firefox or Chromium?
[19:04] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: Please add to your questions to qTranslate: "How do we move the language selector to the top?" And, at the moment, the language selector shows the languages one under the other. We have many languages (32, I think), so that is not useful -- we would need a drop-down menu.
[19:05] <patrickdickey> Go to Appearance > Widgets, and you can move the language selector around. I chose the footer, because we don't have sidebars available on the pages.
[19:05] <PaddyLandau> Cool.
[19:05] <patrickdickey> And, you can change it to dropdown.
[19:05] <PaddyLandau> Cool again!
[19:05] <godbyk> That's good to hear
[19:06] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: I'm having a look but I don't see where to change the settings to drop-down.
[19:06] <PaddyLandau> Oh, I've just found it!
[19:07] <patrickdickey> Ok, so of my questions for their forum, we still need #1 (getting the language code for the download links), and 4 how to import our own .mo files in, and whether that will generate our pages.
[19:08] <PaddyLandau> Yes. Slight change: qTranslate documentation says it will generate, so not "whether that will generate our pages", but "how do we get qTranslate to use the revised .mo files?"
[19:08] <PaddyLandau> Action points, because it's already over an hour now.
[19:08] <PaddyLandau> 1. patrickdickey to send questions to qTranslate.
[19:08] <PaddyLandau> 2. godbyk to try to find out how to generate .pot files.
[19:09] <PaddyLandau> 3. Paddy to look at .pot files and see how they are comprised.
[19:09] <PaddyLandau> I know I've forgotten something...
[19:09] <godbyk> Hmm..
[19:09] <godbyk> I think those are the big issues.
[19:10] <patrickdickey> One thing that I may try is looking at their "translation services settings". We may just have to create our pages, and they'll do the work for us.
[19:10] <PaddyLandau> 4. Paddy to find out how to import .mo files into qTranslate (patrickdickey's questions may help).
[19:10] <godbyk> I can write a separate site/code to handle the publishing process for the manuals.
[19:10] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: yes, find out. But I think that's how they make their money, so it probably won't be cheap. But check anyway!
[19:11] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: If necessary. However, it should be easy; we can set up a test once we have the translations going.
[19:11] <PaddyLandau> So...
[19:11] <PaddyLandau> 5. patrickdickey to find out about qTranslate's Transation Services.
[19:12] <PaddyLandau> 6. After the translations are working, Paddy to test easy ways to publish in conjunction with godbyk.
[19:12] <PaddyLandau> Kevin, you started this because you were unhappy with the current set-up. How do you feel about the proposals? Do you feel that they will save you work and time, or do you have reservations?
[19:13] <godbyk> I think that if we can get the content from WordPress to Launchpad and back, then using WordPress for the main content of the site will be a good move.
[19:13] <godbyk> It'll be a lot easier to add and edit pages as needed.
[19:13] <godbyk> We can also use the posts for press releases and the like.
[19:14] <godbyk> We'll need to split off the download pages into a separate system and write some code to make it easy for people other than me to upload and publish manuals.
[19:14] <godbyk> But that's something that needs to be done regardless.
[19:14] <godbyk> (It's never good if there's only one person in a project who knows how to do something. Bus factor and all that.)
[19:15] <PaddyLandau> I'm a bit confused about the point about the download pages. Surely the download page is just a drop-down with a language selector to point to the right manual, and likewise for Lulu?
[19:15] <patrickdickey> I think this is how we import the .mo files http://codex.wordpress.org/Installing_WordPress_in_Your_Language
[19:15] <PaddyLandau> It's only the upload you need to worry about.
[19:15] <godbyk> To sum up: Assuming we can get the translations out of and into WordPress, then I think switching to WordPress and a new publishing system is a very good move.
[19:15] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Well, it's a bit more complicated than that.
[19:16] <godbyk> The download page has some dropdown menus for options.
[19:16] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: I believe that applies to localisation of WordPress itself, not to multilingual sites.
[19:16] <godbyk> And I'm not sure if WordPress allows you to do that sort of thing easily.
[19:16] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: Do you have an example of what you mean by "options"?
[19:16] <godbyk> But you wouldn't want to make someone edit a WordPress page and upload files and all of that manually. Too many steps makes it easy to screw something up.
[19:16] <patrickdickey> That's the link the Q-Translate FAQ gives for how to manually install your own .mo files. It uses those to generate the translations.
[19:17] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: http://ubuntu-manual.org/downloads
[19:17] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: Oh, OK. In that case, I'll have another look at it.
[19:17] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: I understand now. All right, well, it won't be hard to make a small system to link in automatically with WordPress.
[19:18] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: Yeah, I don't think it'll be too difficult.
[19:18] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: If you want to play and experiment, email me and I'll send you FTP and database login details.
[19:18] <godbyk> Right now the process involves me uploading PDFs using scp and hand-editing a few different php files, so it's a pain.
[19:18] <PaddyLandau> The whole system is fully backed up, so don't worry about mucking it up.
[19:19] <godbyk> I'd like to just have an upload page that can be used to upload the PDFs and it'll handle everything else behind the scenes.
[19:19] <PaddyLandau> godbyk: Sure. We can fix that with some scripts and PHP.
[19:19] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: That's what I'm thinking.
[19:19] <PaddyLandau> Cool.
[19:19] <PaddyLandau> Any more questions or comments?
[19:20] <patrickdickey> I think in the end (based on my experience with my site), you'll upload the files to the server that hosts the site, and just have to fix the links.
[19:20] <godbyk> PaddyLandau: I think that about covers everything.
[19:20] <PaddyLandau> patrickdickey: godbyk wants to automate the process from FTP through to updating the pages, so that it avoids the translators themselves. It can be done fairly easily, I believe.
[19:21] <PaddyLandau> OK. Shall we call an end to the meeting? I have to get my kids to bed and then me.
[19:21] <godbyk> #endmeeting
[19:21] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jul 28 19:21:15 2012 UTC.
[19:21] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-07-28-17.59.moin.txt
[19:21] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-07-28-17.59.html
[19:21] <godbyk> Thanks for all your help, guys. I really appreciate it!
[19:21] <PaddyLandau> Thank you. Goodbye. Patrick, email me if you want FTP and database login details.
[19:21] <patrickdickey> I'm going to pick a page (if you have a preference let me know) and try uploading the code directly from our test site to it. Just to see what breaks and what doesn't.
[19:22] <patrickdickey> I'll do that. I should be around for about the next 18 hours or so.
[19:22] <godbyk> I'll generally be around, though I'm going to be afk for a short while first.