[02:50] <acmeinc> what is the latest kernel version on U-S 12.04?
[02:56] <len-dt>  3.2.0-23-lowlatency-pae... still
[03:05] <acmeinc> ah, ok, thx.  i reverted back, so just making sure i iddnt miss anytihng
[03:21] <acmeinc> oh one more, has anyone tried the 3.5 kernel on 12.04 yet?
[07:32] <ailo> acmeinc: We'll soon be doing some extensive testing on Quantal
[07:32] <ailo> acmeinc: First impression is the kernel is more or less like Precise
[18:53] <ailo> I think having double entries for applications in the menus is a mistake
[18:53] <ailo> There are enough applications as it is
[18:53] <ailo> I would like to scrap the idea of using the menu streamlined for workflows
[18:54] <len-dt> ailo, I have asked Scott who added them.
[18:54] <ailo> Especially as a workflow can't be perfectly defined.
[18:54] <len-dt> ailo, scrap ok, what would you do instead
[18:55] <len-dt> We still need to break up the menus more than stock.
[18:55] <ailo> len-dt: If one wants to help guide the user to workflows, it must be by a workflow application
[18:55] <len-dt> Audio was too big
[18:55] <len-dt> Ok, I agree with the workfow application
[18:56] <ailo> The menu is a categorized list. It doesn't support multiple category layers
[18:56] <ailo> I mean, it does, if you add the same application entry in many places
[18:56] <ailo> But that is not a good way to do it
[18:56] <len-dt> That says nothing to me. explain as to how this would work
[18:57] <ailo> I'm just saying that the menu doesn't serve well for workflow guidance
[18:57] <len-dt> Ok so what would you do instead of what we have now?
[18:57] <ailo> len-dt: As I said. Create an application for workflows
[18:57] <len-dt> I agree that someone doing a video that wanted to work on audio would still go to the audio part of the menu.
[18:58] <ailo> And even if you don't create one, the menu is still not good for workflows
[18:58] <ailo> It's just confusing having audio apps in a category that says video
[18:58] <ailo> Or vice versa
[18:58] <len-dt> So you are saying splitting the the menus is ok, but double listing items is not?
[18:59] <ailo> No one thinks of the category as a workflow. They think of it as a definition for the applications, per application
[18:59] <len-dt> Or listing items outside of catagory is bad.
[18:59] <ailo> Splitting the menu is fine, as long as it's not over done
[19:00] <len-dt> Ok. I agree. Thats two of us. 
[19:00] <len-dt> What do we do?
[19:01] <ailo> I say scrap multiple entries
[19:01] <ailo> And categorize applications per definition. Forget about workflows in the menu
[19:01] <ailo> As it has always been
[19:02] <len-dt> OK, can we do that without more people's input?
[19:02] <ailo> We should talk with Scott
[19:03] <len-dt> The general feedback I have got to having audio production separate from multi-media has been good.
[19:03] <ailo> I like having a tidy menu, with a fair amount of categories
[19:03] <len-dt> In my opinion the multi-media menu entry is a mess
[19:03] <ailo> Nothing wrong with that
[19:04] <ailo> As long as the category is accurate for the application under it
[19:04] <len-dt> having simple scan in every menu is a bit much though :-)
[19:04] <ailo> It's hard to categorize very deeply, since many apps are multi purpose
[19:05] <ailo> But that's not a major problem
[19:06] <ailo> As long as you don't find one application in three different menus, etc
[19:06] <ailo> Only one
[19:07] <len-dt> I am willing to do menu editing, but I would like a list of changes. I often don't know from looking at a app name what they do or do best.
[19:07] <ailo> As the last comment on the bug report suggest, no one is even considering the application is put there because of a workflow. Everyone assumes it is placed there because of technical definition
[19:08] <len-dt> ailo,  I think documentation on workflows would be better way to go, as there are so many possible workflows.
[19:09] <ailo> I haven't looked closely, but I think those two apps are probably the only one that have double entries?
[19:09] <len-dt> pavucontrol, simplescan
[19:09] <ailo> len-dt: Documentation, or an application. Documentation first, anyway
[19:10] <len-dt> I am thinking to remove pavucontrol from the mixers menu and just leave it in media playback.
[19:10] <ailo> That one is a bit ambiguous
[19:10] <len-dt> Running pavucontrol starts pulse even if the session is set up not to start pulse.
[19:10] <ailo> It is a mixer, but it's also a general purpose application for non audio users
[19:12] <len-dt> on another topic... with the livedvd install, it is not possible to remove a meta and it's appliactions after install.
[19:12] <len-dt> As it used to be with the altinstall
[19:14] <ailo> I think maybe reintroduce the choices for the different metas during install
[19:15] <len-dt> I am working on an email to the list on this subject right now...
[19:15] <ailo> And not separate audio into different installation tasks. Just have the workflows: audio, graphics, video, photography and publishing
[19:16] <len-dt> we may have to redo video for that to work.
[19:20] <len-dt> ailo, ok new item on the list.
[19:22] <len-dt> complete with spelling error :P
[19:25] <len-dt> ailo, where should simple-scan go?
[19:26] <len-dt> I think it is 4 or 5 places just now.
[19:28] <astraljava> I'd say Graphics.
[19:28] <astraljava> What are the other categories that it is in now?
[19:29] <len-dt> It is also in office, accesories, probably publishing.
[19:29]  * len-dt spelling is going down hill fast
[19:29] <astraljava> Office is acceptable, but from others it could be removed.
[19:30] <len-dt> It would be nice to get all the menu changes in one email. Easier for me to do and reference.
[19:31] <astraljava> Is there a thread about it?
[19:31] <len-dt>  	[Bug 984970] Re: Audacity and Inkscape are in the video production menu
[19:31] <len-dt> could be used
[19:33] <astraljava> I'd say keep bug discussion topic-related only. But another could be filed that holds them all.
[19:34] <astraljava> Or well, just rename the bug, of course.
[19:34] <len-dt> I have made a branch of ubuntustudio-default-settings for precise for fixing some of these bugs there. But from the comments I am  getting to some of these bugs no one expects them to get fixed for 12.04 they are quite happy that they are getting fix for quatal
[19:34]  * astraljava isn't thinking, but what else is new...
[19:34] <len-dt> Should I leave the 12.04 fixes alone as to trivial?
[19:36] <len-dt> The three menu bugs in 12.04 are: items in the wrong place, menudirectories missing icons and the help item goes nowhere.
[19:36] <acmeinc> ailo and len, in regards to the kernel for quantal, is there one i can try on precise?  i wouldn't mind loading up a new kernel if it could potentially fix my mdadm problems
[19:36] <astraljava> The latter two are absolutely bugs. Maybe the first one, too, but not too concerned of it really.
[19:37]  * len-dt is not kernel knowledgeable
[19:38] <len-dt> Are they all sruable?
[19:38] <astraljava> The last two, definitely, IMHO.
[19:38] <len-dt> The items moved are not the ones discussed here, but those could be done too.
[19:40] <astraljava> I'd ask for opinions on -bugs, before trying to include that change.
[19:45] <len-dt> Ok, thanks. I find the sru wording leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
[19:47] <len-dt> acmeinc, I don't know if the 3.5 kernel has lib stuff that won't work with 12.04.
[19:48] <len-dt> The easiest way to get it is to fire up the 12.10 alpha livedvd and use synaptic or apt-get to just download the files and then try installing them and see. A reboot to the old kernel should allow getting out and then uninstall if needed.
[20:06] <ailo> acmeinc: Have you followed if that problem has been fixed?
[20:06] <ailo> acmeinc: I would google on it, and perhaps use linux mail list archive as a reference for searches
[20:09] <ailo> acmeinc: Sure it's not a mdadm bug, contrary to a linux bug?
[20:12] <acmeinc> ailo, yea, from what i've read its almost certiainly a "debian" bug somewhere along the line, whether it be kernel or what not.  The developer has not intentions (from what I've read) to correct problems with any other disto except his, suse.  I think he's expecting other dists to work around any issues which come up along the way with mdadm
[20:26] <len-dt> ailo, I want to mark off "ubuntustudio-q-misc 	Medium 	- user - See to that nautilus is default for everything (the desktop)" as DONE
[20:27] <len-dt> any comments? I can't get thunar to should up in any context.
[20:34] <len-dt> s/should/show
[20:43] <astraljava> len-dt: Sounds good, although in the very rare cases I fire up a GUI file manager, I tend to use Thunar instead. :)
[21:06] <len-dt> astraljava, in quantal? with xfce4.10?
[21:06] <len-dt> I've tried everything I can think of... what have I missed?
[21:07] <astraljava> No, I meant I manually open that one instead.
[21:07] <len-dt> Oh I see.
[21:07] <len-dt> I think the option is there to set default to whatever.
[21:09] <astraljava> Yes I bet there is, but I rarely bother to change them. Only the editor, so that when another app opens it (say, git/bzr commit), I get vim instead of nano. :)
[21:10] <len-dt> considering that it all works, I don't  see any reason to try setting up the desktop to be something other than thunar
[21:13] <astraljava> I'm not sure I understand that line.
[21:14] <len-dt> right now thunar makes the desktop. If you copy a file to the desktop it is thunar tjhat displays it
[21:14] <astraljava> Oh ok, right got it now.
[21:16] <len-dt> However, even if I create a folder on the desktop when I open it it operns with nautilus.
[21:17] <astraljava> Well I bet you're right. Only reason could be to shave off a few megs, but since we don't seem to really care, I don't think we ought to bother.
[21:17] <len-dt> I've marked it DONE.
[21:17] <astraljava> Good, good.
[21:46] <Len-nb> need to test tomorrows ISO to make sure text background has been fixed in bug 1016713