[00:21] <TeamRocket1233c> Hiya! Should I decide to use Ubuntu for reals, I'm going with Xubuntu.
[00:24] <Unit193> It's all up to you, but I'm sure several here would say go with Xubuntu. :P
[00:24] <TeamRocket1233c> I'm aiming more for it than Lubuntu, Kubuntu, or Ubuntu.
[00:25] <David-A> TeamRocket1233c: Both are good, different taste. Only if your computer is very old the selection of distros is more limited.
[00:25] <TeamRocket1233c> David-A: Or if you just prefer lighter-weight distros.
[00:26] <Unit193> You could try each for a week and see what you think.
[00:26] <Unit193> Even a day with a liveUSB could do it.
[00:26] <TeamRocket1233c> Unit193: I tried Karmic Koala last year in school 'cause the disc for it was nearby, and liked it, but that was pre-Unity.
[00:27] <TeamRocket1233c> Unit193: Not sure how well Unity would do based on the bad buzz I've picked up about it before.
[00:27] <Unit193> There are qutie a few that do actually like it, but others don't, as with everything.
[00:28] <TeamRocket1233c> In addition, just prefer a more traditional desktop.
[00:28] <Unit193> That's one big reason to use Xfce/LXDE over gnome-shell/unity/KDE.
[00:29] <TeamRocket1233c> Unit193: Also, Xfce's more customizable, and you have more control over how you customize it.
[00:29] <David-A> TeamRocket1233c: I think most bad fuzz is people are not used to it, they expected gnome and was dissapointed. There are some realy good design ideas in unity. But, as I see it there are some bad things too, that can be polished by time. Don't care too much about fuzz. Try it yourself. Its free.
[00:29] <TeamRocket1233c> Unit193: That's part of it.
[00:30] <TeamRocket1233c> Unit193: Although I tested GNOME Shell on F16 and liked it, it was just a little more awkward than I'm used to.
[00:33] <TeamRocket1233c> Unit193: Got used to Openbox in Crunchbang Statler really quickly, other than getting used to having to right-click to pull up a menu, it's actually kinda easy to use.
[00:33] <Unit193> Openbox is great, that's for sure.
[00:33] <TeamRocket1233c> Unit193: And Fluxbox is essentially a more refined Openbox.
[00:35] <TeamRocket1233c> Unit193: Tested out Fluxbox on Tiny Core and found it as easy to use as Openbox, as for FLWM, also tested out in Tiny Core, it was almost unusable. JWM sorta reminded me of Windows 98 when I tried it in Puppy, plenty usable, but pretty ugly.
[00:37] <Unit193> There's quite a few to pick from, and with Ubuntu !mini, you can make it your "own" os.  If you wanted to generally chat DEs/WMs, you can join me in #xubuntu-offtopic too. :D
[01:47] <TeamRocket1233c> BRB. Dinner.
[02:15] <TeamRocket1233c> Back!
[03:11] <TeamRocket1233c> I'ma go for the night, I'll be back whenever, bye! -wave-
[07:24] <pseudonome> salut les filles
[12:45] <DarkSim> I'm using Ubuntu 12.04, I'm also trying to use Xfce with that but I get heaps of bugs and errors, can someone help me with this?
[12:45] <holstein> DarkSim: id say, pick an easy one, and share it.. are you using the xubuntu-desktop metapackage?
[12:46] <DarkSim> I'm quite the Linux beginner sorry
[12:46] <DarkSim> I don't think I'm using xubuntu metapackage
[12:46] <holstein> no worries.. you say you are using ubuntu, how did you get xfce?
[12:47] <DarkSim> I think I ran some sudo -apt get xfce4 or something similar
[12:47] <holstein> DarkSim: look and see what you "ran"
[12:47] <DarkSim> I did that a few days ago
[12:48] <DarkSim> can I still find it?
[12:48] <holstein> you can either lookin your browswer history for whatever link you used, or open a terminal and type "history"
[12:48] <DarkSim> Damn, one of these Xfce bugs don't let me use Terminal (can't type) gonna have to switch to Unity for now
[12:49] <holstein> DarkSim: whats the error?
[12:49] <DarkSim> I don't have any top areas on the windows like maximize and drag to move and those things
[12:49] <holstein> ah... you tried to add compiz?
[12:49] <DarkSim> and if I set Xfce to default DE whenever I boot up the computer I don't have a cursor visible
[12:49] <DarkSim> I don't have compiz as far as I know
[12:50] <holstein> i would try sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop , and try running the xubuntu session instead of the XFCE one
[12:51] <holstein> DarkSim: carefully read about what is going to be installed and removed and make sure that is OK
[12:57] <DarkSim> So let's see, sudo apt-get xfce-desktop, right?
[12:57] <baizon> sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[12:58] <holstein> DarkSim: i would try the exact command that baizon and i have suggested
[12:58] <holstein> installing the xubuntu-destkop meta-package instead of xfce alone
[12:59] <holstein> login to the xubuntu session instead of the XFCE one, and see what you get... report if you need more assistance
[12:59] <DarkSim> I'm gonna try Xfce and Lxde and see which I like the most. Xfce looks better while Lxde apparently is faster
[13:00] <DarkSim> Ok, I think I already had the DE option called Xfce Session though, we'll see when I've installed the package though
[13:01] <baizon> LXDE got less features
[13:02] <DarkSim> In what senses, about where I should have my bars and these tiny features?
[13:07] <DarkSim_> holstein: Now I can move windows again
[13:07] <DarkSim_> but I don't have maximize and minimize still
[13:08] <DarkSim_> holstein: you know the window manager options in settings? I can't enter those settings
[13:13] <DarkSim_> holstein?
[14:15] <DarkSim> holstein: I've got it to work properly now, looks really good. Thanks for the help! :D
[14:16] <Kingsy> anyone in here run an AMD graphics card ?
[14:17] <holstein> DarkSim: enjoy!.. im in and out of internet for about the next week... glad you got something you are liking!
[14:17] <holstein> Kingsy: i have a few
[14:17] <holstein> i typically use the out of the box open driver with ATI
[14:18] <Kingsy> it acutally looks like I installed the driver.. 1 sec.. reboot
[14:20] <DarkSim> It's more or less for my father who does regular basic stuff on this
[14:20] <DarkSim> wanted it to look like it always has been (all-life windows user) but a bit more easy on the old hardware
[14:20] <holstein> cool.. hope it works out... its not windows
[14:20] <DarkSim> Takes about 56.7 seconds to boot it up now, than the basically 2-3 minutes
[14:21] <holstein> my mom uses linux all the time, but she didnt have a computer before that, so there was no unlearning
[14:21] <holstein> my grandma had a windows machine, and could never find 'solitare' in linux ;)
[14:21] <Kingsy> holstein: it worked I installed the driver ok.. but for some reason it has defaulted to clone display on both of my monitors... how do you change that setting?
[14:21] <DarkSim> One thing though holstein, will Xfce make those update manager things hop up like it does in Unity or is it manual now?
[14:22] <holstein> Kingsy: i sometimes use a knoppix or a pupply linux live CD to create a custom xorg.conf, but i would try arandr
[14:23] <holstein> DarkSim: its all open, depends on how you have it configured... for other users, i typically turn auto updates off, and just do it when i see them, or leave an ssh tunnel, or teamviewer somewhere
[14:24] <DarkSim> Because it used to fire up Update Manager and say like "woop woop 40 update is here" and then I had to bring that window up and press accept
[14:24] <Kingsy> cool I will look into that
[14:24] <Kingsy> brb
[14:27] <DarkSim> Since I want the system to some sort of sell-sufficient, I'll turn on auto updates
[14:27] <DarkSim> to be some sort of self-sufficient*
[14:32] <holstein> sure, but a kernel upgrade can break the system, and does your pop really konw what that means?
[14:33] <holstein> i mean, an out of date kernel is not as big a deal as keeping windows up to date (arguably)
[14:34] <holstein> do what you like, im just staing what i do after having left 20+ non technical folks with auto update running.. they dont update, they just read the nag and think something is broken typically
[14:37] <DarkSim> If something breaks I'll blame you, no worries :)
[14:37] <DarkSim> Nah, thanks again, finally I can leave the DE hunt once and for all
[14:38] <holstein> hehe.. you can try, but your pops wont be calling me asking for XP back ;)
[14:42] <drc> Anyone have an answer for http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12135412  ??
[14:43] <DarkSim> Right now it's more a shout from across the house though
[14:43] <DarkSim> Damn this DE looks stunning, in a basic kind of way
[14:46] <DarkSim> holstein: You don't happen to know how to change the forced grid system on the desktop?
[14:48] <DarkSim> What I mean is, to not snap icons to a grid system
[15:00] <holstein> DarkSim: refernce http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archive/index.php/t-197861.html and see if you can get anywhere with it
[15:01] <holstein> System > Settings > Desktop Settings > Behavior to get to the icon sizing function. The desktop icon positions are configured (stored) in ~/.config/xfce4/desktop/icons.screen0.rc (in particular)
[15:01] <DarkSim> The thing is that I need big icons so my father can see what it is, so I can't shrink them as a solution
[15:02] <DarkSim> logging out quickly
[15:02] <holstein> i wouldnt think that would be a good solution.. tbh, i havent clicked on an icon on a system of my own for several years
[15:04] <holstein> http://dreamlinuxforums.org/index.php?topic=7614.0
[15:34] <Kingsy> holstein: you still around?
[15:35] <holstein> for a minute.. whats up Kingsy ?
[15:35] <Kingsy> just wondered if you have ever used amdcccle to control your radeon card.. what whichever you have?
[15:36] <Kingsy> I am having two problems..
[15:36] <holstein> i have really only use the open driver that comes "out of the box"
[15:36] <Kingsy> one, the AMD Catalyst control center keeps randomly crashing.. and two I cant get more than 2 outputs to work..
[15:36] <Kingsy> I bought this card because it has a display port and therefore can do 3 outputs at once
[15:36] <holstein> in one case, i tried the open one, then the proprietary one, then i switched hardware
[15:37] <holstein> Kingsy: i wouldnt expect all those functions to wrok
[15:37] <holstein> work*
[15:37] <holstein> i would probably try reading up on what driver version works best and with what kernel version
[15:37] <Kingsy> well its fine that they don't.. but I need to get the 3 outputs working.. or it totally defeats the point of buying the card
[15:37] <Kingsy> hmm.. I wouldnt know where to start
[15:37] <holstein> Kingsy: i wouldnt expect all the functions to work, such as the multiple outs
[15:38] <holstein> Kingsy: i would literally go to the amd site and read up on the driver you are using
[15:38] <Kingsy> well it kinda needs too.. heh so I need to find a way really
[15:38] <holstein> see i a certain kernel version is suggested
[15:38] <holstein> Kingsy: there may be no way that AMD will allow us to support those multiple outputs
[15:39] <holstein> i have no idea, im just saying, that may never work
[15:39] <Kingsy> I really hope that isnt true..
[15:39] <Kingsy> if it is I have just wasted 130 pound
[15:39] <holstein> Kingsy: hope wont work... you can ask AMD
[15:39] <holstein> when purchasing for linux, i save all reciepts
[15:40] <holstein> im not saying it wont work, im just saying, theres also no reason why its guaranteed that it will
[15:40] <holstein> i would not be afraid of trying 10.04 personally
[15:40] <Kingsy> I am gutted
[15:41] <holstein> yeah? ...im just saying, dont get your hopes up
[15:41] <holstein> AMD doesnt officially support linux
[15:41] <holstein> you might get it working.. first place i would look is the kernel, then the driver version
[15:42] <Kingsy> what do you mean by "look" at the kernal? what am I looking for ?
[15:42] <holstein> Kingsy: the driver is written expecting a certain kernel version
[15:43] <holstein> if AMD writes that driver for kernel 2.6, and you are using a 3.x one, then i would expect issues
[15:43] <holstein> Kingsy: i have absolutely no idea if that is true, im just suggesting a place to research
[15:43] <Kingsy> ah ok
[15:43] <holstein> it should say in the docs for the driver you are using
[15:44] <holstein> there should be an older version of the driver
[15:44] <holstein> if you want "out of the box easy", go with intel... though sometimes that doesnt work great either
[15:49] <cheetah97> anybody here?
[15:49] <holstein> hey cheetah97 ... just ask, and if anyone knows, they'lll answer
[15:49] <Kingsy> holstein: I actually think I have bought the wrong cable :S
[15:49] <Kingsy> you need an active converter I think
[15:49] <cheetah97> i can't download any torrents, please help
[15:49] <holstein> Kingsy: i would try getting one working, and working well... and go from there
[15:50] <holstein> cheetah97: for the installation media? you can use ftp or http
[15:50] <holstein> http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/
[15:50] <Kingsy> holstein: I am using it now.. it does work.. just fine.. I guess I need this other cable
[15:50] <holstein> under the torrent links
[15:51] <cheetah97> holstein: no, i want to download a game
[15:51] <holstein> what is the error?
[15:51] <cheetah97> i add a torrent and it hangs at 0.0%
[15:51] <cheetah97> ANY torrent hangs
[15:52] <holstein> cheetah97: i would try another torrent client..
[15:52] <holstein> you can try starting the torrent client from the command line and see what the errors are
[15:52] <cheetah97> 0 from 0 seeders connected - this is the status
[15:53] <holstein> cheetah97: if there are 0 seeders, you wont get it
[15:53] <cheetah97> utorrent says "Port is not opened. Downloading allowed"
[15:53] <holstein> cheetah97: i would try a known good torrent.. the xubuntu iso torrent, or the ubuntu one
[15:53] <cheetah97> holstein, ANY torrent hangs
[15:54] <holstein> what are you trying to download? maybe ask the dev for an ftp link
[15:54] <holstein> cheetah97: the ubuntu torrent hanges?
[15:54] <cheetah97> no, the download hangs
[15:54] <holstein> cheetah97: 0 seeders means just that... there are 0 folks to get it from
[15:54] <cheetah97> it hangs on 0.0%
[15:54] <holstein> cheetah97: are you behing a proxy?
[15:56] <cheetah97> no... maybe. I use a wi-fi router in a "gateway" mode (NAT on)
[15:57] <holstein> cheetah97: you can bypass that if you'd like to confirm its not the issue
[15:57] <cheetah97> ???
[15:57] <holstein> cheetah97: the router... you can plug one computer right into the modem if you think the router is the issue
[15:58] <cheetah97> ok, i'll try now
[15:58] <holstein> cheetah97: have you tried another client? have you tried the actual "known-good" ubuntu torrents?
[15:58] <holstein> what are you trying to download?
[15:58] <cheetah97> starship tycoon from The Pirate Bay
[15:59] <holstein> this is where i suggest you get that game https://secure.bmtmicro.com/servlets/Orders.ShoppingCart?CID=2899&PRODUCTID=28990002
[15:59] <holstein> i wont help you otherwise.. good luck !
[16:00] <cheetah97> *facepalm*
[16:00] <cheetah97> uTorrent says that it can't connect to a tracker
[16:28] <Daniel____> hi, I'm having trouble installing xubuntu with Wubi
[16:29] <Daniel____> I ran it earlier, and then I could choose Xubuntu (but I didn't install)
[16:29] <holstein> Daniel____: ran it? the installer? are you seeing ubuntu at boot up in the windows boot loader?
[16:29] <Daniel____> but now it only gives me the choice of installing Ubuntu...
[16:29] <holstein> it? the installer? the boot loader option?
[16:30] <Daniel____> the installer
[16:30] <holstein> you dont click the installer anymore, you just click install from inside windows the one time
[16:30] <Daniel____> I have never gone beyond the first "screen" in the installer
[16:30] <holstein> Daniel____: you'll need to complete the installer once
[16:30] <Daniel____> I have never installed anything
[16:31] <Daniel____> Yes, but I want to install Xubuntu...
[16:31] <holstein> OK
[16:31] <Daniel____> ...and I never get the option of choosing Xubuntu...
[16:31] <Daniel____> only Ubuntu
[16:31] <holstein> you can install whatever you have, ubuntu i assume, and then install the xubuntu-desktop metapackage afterwards
[16:32] <holstein> you can download the xubuntu imagne and see if there is a wubi.exe on it.. i cant recal
[16:32] <holstein> recall*
[16:32] <holstein> you can put the xubuntu.iso in the same directory as wubi when you run it
[16:34] <Daniel____> I tried putting the Lubuntu image in the same directory (just becouse I have it, and to try) and disconnect Internet, but STILL only Ubuntu in the drop-down menu
[16:34] <holstein> Daniel____: right.. i would try that, and expect the installer to use that iso
[16:34] <holstein> lubuntu and xubuntu are ubuntu
[16:34] <holstein> Daniel____: or, just use the ubuntu one, and switch after install
[16:35] <Unit193> !purexubuntu
[16:35] <Unit193> !purexfce
[16:35] <holstein> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1961647 Daniel____
[16:35] <Daniel____> yes, but I'd rather install Xubuntu directly, so I thought maybe someone might know what could be wrong
[16:35] <holstein> suggests what i am saying
[16:36] <holstein> Daniel____: if you would rather, then i say install xubuntu directly.. if that is too problematic, i say take the path of least resistence, which will render the same final result
[16:37] <Daniel____> but no ideas on how to fix the installer problem then?
[16:37] <holstein> Daniel____: its not a problem
[16:37] <holstein> you do the install with the xubuntu.iso in place
[16:38] <holstein> in wont give xubuntu as an option.. you just install ubuntu, and end up with xubuntu, which is ubuntu with xfce
[16:38] <holstein> you have, in the same directory under windows.. wubi.exe, and xubuntu.iso
[16:38] <holstein> install ubuntu, and you (should) end up with xubuntu
[16:38] <Daniel____> ah
[16:39] <Daniel____> i'll try that then
[16:39] <Daniel____> and maybe i should remove ubunu.iso from hard drive
[16:39] <Daniel____> :)
[16:40] <Daniel____> still seems like there is some wubi bug though
[16:40] <Daniel____> or maybe something with the servers right now
[16:41] <Daniel____> but thanks for the help guys!
[16:41] <holstein> Daniel____: i would make sure only the *.iso you want to use is in that directory with wubi.exe
[16:42] <Daniel____> yes, will do!
[16:42] <Daniel____> and no internet...
[16:42] <holstein> well, you'll see if its trying to download
[16:43] <Daniel____> it's supposed to look like it's downloading, even though it doesn't, I read...
[16:44] <holstein> Daniel____: dont know what it "looks" like.. i just know if it goes pretty quick to the install, or sets there for 20+ minutes downloading
[16:46] <Daniel____> yes, indeed
[22:30] <fusk> How does one create a new button in the dropdown menu in the powermangement menu ?
[23:38] <elsuco> Hi there... Is there anyway in finding out, what xfce4-settings-helper is doing right now? I'm running Xubuntu 12.04.
[23:54] <GreatDanton> Does anybody knows when will be xubuntu 12.04.01 released (if it will be)?
[23:55] <bazhang> Late August iirc
[23:55] <bazhang> around 3 weeks from now
[23:57] <GreatDanton> Thank you bazhang