| blackshirt | hello, good morning | 00:17 |
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| Hayate | hello,good morning | 00:21 |
| Hayate | is there class rom this morning? | 00:22 |
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| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: MOTU School - Current Session: RC Bug Fixing Workflow - Instructors: tumbleweed | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/07/31/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 14:01 |
| tumbleweed | Hello everyone | 14:04 |
| tumbleweed | Welcome to our little Debian RC bug squashing party | 14:04 |
| tumbleweed | glad to see there's already an audience of 2 | 14:04 |
| tumbleweed | anyone else here? please say hi in the chat channel | 14:04 |
| tumbleweed | that's #ubuntu-classroom-chat, which is also the place to ask questions | 14:04 |
| tumbleweed | so, I'm Stefano Rivera, a Debian & Ubuntu Developer | 14:05 |
| tumbleweed | and I'm here to guide you through working with Debian, today | 14:05 |
| tumbleweed | I assume you all know that Ubuntu is derived from Debian | 14:05 |
| tumbleweed | in fact, about 75% of packages in Universe are entirely unmodified from Debian | 14:05 |
| tumbleweed | and that's a good thing | 14:05 |
| tumbleweed | there's no need for those packages to be modified in Ubuntu | 14:06 |
| tumbleweed | the vast majority of bugs that we'd encounter in them are relevant to both Debian & Ubuntu | 14:06 |
| tumbleweed | and it makes sense to fix them as close to the source as possible | 14:06 |
| tumbleweed | that means the least duplication of effort, and shares the benefit as widely as possible | 14:06 |
| tumbleweed | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers | 14:06 |
| tumbleweed | I hope at this point, you are aware of the advantages of working well with our upstream, Debian | 14:06 |
| tumbleweed | (and that I might have written up some of this beforehand, for pasting) :P | 14:06 |
| tumbleweed | so, what are we here to do today? | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | Debain has frozen their next release, wheezy, and is now trying to fix all the remaining RC bugs in it | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | we're going to try and help with that | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | a lot of these are also relevant to Ubuntu, and it's generally in our interest for Debian to release quickly | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | what's an RC bug? | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | the Debian Release team has helpfully defined that for us | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | http://release.debian.org/wheezy/rc_policy.txt | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | how many need to still be fixed? | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | far too many: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | we need to get the green line down to zero | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | everyone still with me? | 14:08 |
| tumbleweed | what's the best way to find RC bugs? | 14:08 |
| tumbleweed | I suggest using this search: http://deb.li/fOvv | 14:09 |
| tumbleweed | that should find issues that are blocking the release of wheezy, and nobody has looked at yet | 14:09 |
| tumbleweed | if anyone has any more questions about that search interface, please ask me | 14:09 |
| tumbleweed | here's another query that may be interesting to us: http://deb.li/3Yc7n | 14:09 |
| tumbleweed | that will list bugs that may have been fixed in Ubuntu, but the patch hasn't been forwarded to Debian | 14:09 |
| tumbleweed | many of the bugs you'll see on these lists are not trivial to fix | 14:09 |
| tumbleweed | there's a reason that they've been open for a long time, and nobody has fixed them | 14:09 |
| tumbleweed | so, if you want to find something easy to work on, it's often best to look at 10 of them, and pick the easiest one | 14:09 |
| tumbleweed | but, of course, they all need to be fixed :) | 14:09 |
| tumbleweed | (or found to be not actually blocking bugs) | 14:10 |
| tumbleweed | how do you go about fixing these issues? | 14:10 |
| tumbleweed | I'm afraid there are way too many types of RC bug for me to answer that | 14:10 |
| tumbleweed | but we can take that on a case-by-case basis, if you point to a bug you aren't sure how to deal with, I'm sure someone can suggest the answer | 14:10 |
| tumbleweed | I can briefly explain the procedures | 14:11 |
| tumbleweed | when Debian is frozen, Debian package maintainers are strongly encouraged not to upload anything to unstable, that won't end up in the frozen release | 14:11 |
| tumbleweed | so, for most packages, the same version should be present in both unstable, and testing | 14:11 |
| tumbleweed | (if you don't know about debian testing, packages automatically migrate from unstable to testing after 10 days, if there are no issues that should stop the migration) | 14:12 |
| tumbleweed | but during the freeze, this is disabled | 14:12 |
| tumbleweed | we'll fix it in unstable, and then ask the release team to let it migrate through to testing | 14:12 |
| tumbleweed | this means that the fix should be as minimal as possible, as the release team will have to review it | 14:12 |
| tumbleweed | it should also be minimal, if we intend to NMU (non-maintainer upload) it | 14:12 |
| tumbleweed | the chat channel seems deathly silent, am I going way too fast? | 14:14 |
| tumbleweed | So: | 14:15 |
| tumbleweed | verify that the bug exists in wheezy (testing), and that the version is the same as unstable | 14:15 |
| tumbleweed | it may be so trivially obvious that it doesn't need to be verifified | 14:15 |
| tumbleweed | or it has enough commenters / logs to be sure it's real | 14:15 |
| tumbleweed | if not, you can always fire up a chroot / vm (and people around here can help you set that all up) | 14:16 |
| tumbleweed | You can see more information about the package at http://packages.qa.debian.org/$PACKAGENAME | 14:16 |
| tumbleweed | (when I say $packagename in this talk, I mean source package) | 14:16 |
| tumbleweed | or run rmadison -u debian $package | 14:16 |
| tumbleweed | pull-debian-source $package | 14:17 |
| tumbleweed | should get you the current source | 14:17 |
| tumbleweed | then you get to fix it (that's the easy bit, right? :) | 14:17 |
| tumbleweed | test-build against sid (unstable) | 14:17 |
| tumbleweed | generate a debdiff, and attach it to the bug, tagging the bug +patch | 14:17 |
| tumbleweed | has anyone here never used debian's bugtracker before? | 14:17 |
| tumbleweed | (it's probably very different to anything you are used to, so I can give you a crash course in it) | 14:18 |
| tumbleweed | it's worth noting that debbugs recently gained a new feature. You can now tag a bug +patch by making the first line of your e-mail | 14:20 |
| tumbleweed | Tags: +patch | 14:20 |
| tumbleweed | and then a blank line | 14:20 |
| tumbleweed | (in other words, all e-mail to debbugs can now take pseudo-headers) | 14:21 |
| tumbleweed | no need no cc control@bugs.debian.org | 14:21 |
| tumbleweed | right. So. Once you've attached a patch to a bug and tagged it patch | 14:23 |
| tumbleweed | Chances are a Debian Developer who's looking at RC bugs will notice it and sponsor it, fairly quickly. | 14:23 |
| tumbleweed | But you can also ask for sponsorship. Usually, #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org is a good place. | 14:23 |
| tumbleweed | #ubuntu-motu / #ubuntu-devel would work too (be clear that it's a debian bug that you are looking for a sponsor for) | 14:23 |
| tumbleweed | and today, you can raise it in the classroom chat channel | 14:23 |
| tumbleweed | ok, that's everything I intended to cover in classroom style | 14:24 |
| tumbleweed | now, I'm entirely open to questions | 14:24 |
| ClassBot | Rcart asked: Fixed bugs are automatically removed from those lists? | 14:33 |
| tumbleweed | yes | 14:33 |
| tumbleweed | the RC bug search like I gave you doesn't ignore bugs which arceh marked as done | 14:34 |
| tumbleweed | *are | 14:34 |
| tumbleweed | (which is the traditional way to mark a bug as fixed) | 14:34 |
| tumbleweed | but instead relies on debbugs (the debian bugtracking system)'s version tracking feature | 14:34 |
| tumbleweed | it knows which version of a package a bug was found in, and wwhich in was fixed in | 14:35 |
| tumbleweed | (when people close bugs in the changelog, that is) | 14:35 |
| tumbleweed | you asked about logkeys | 14:36 |
| tumbleweed | $ rmadison -u debian logkeys logkeys | 0.1.0-1 | squeeze | source, amd64, armel, i386, ia64, mips, mipsel, powerpc, sparc logkeys | 0.1.0-1 | wheezy | source, amd64, armel, i386, ia64, mips, mipsel, powerpc, sparc logkeys | 0.1.0-1 | sid | source, mips, mipsel logkeys | 0.1.1a-3 | sid | source, amd64, armel, armhf, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc | 14:36 |
| tumbleweed | erk, that wasn't pretty | 14:36 |
| tumbleweed | http://packages.qa.debian.org/l/logkeys.html | 14:36 |
| tumbleweed | you can see the fixed version hasn't entered testing yet | 14:37 |
| tumbleweed | because it didn't build on some architectures | 14:37 |
| tumbleweed | https://buildd.debian.org/status/logs.php?pkg=logkeys | 14:38 |
| tumbleweed | it successfully built on some architectures in the past, that it isn't building on now | 14:38 |
| tumbleweed | so those old versions are holding the new ones back | 14:38 |
| ClassBot | chilicuil asked: all the rc bugs must be corrected in debian?, what about unity or some projects specific to ubuntu, can they be defined as RC?, if so, how can I find them? | 14:43 |
| tumbleweed | chilicuil: to answer the example first: unity isn't in Debian | 14:43 |
| tumbleweed | (although hopefully it will be, at same point) | 14:44 |
| tumbleweed | Ubuntu has its own definition of RC bugs | 14:44 |
| tumbleweed | but Ubuntu doesn't require all RC bugs to be fixed before releasing | 14:44 |
| tumbleweed | we do a time-based release, where we release on a particular day | 14:44 |
| tumbleweed | and do our best to fix all the show-stopper bugs before that date | 14:45 |
| tumbleweed | we'd love to fix all our RC bugs, but one can't do that and regular, timely, releases | 14:45 |
| tumbleweed | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance describes Ubuntu's bug importance levels | 14:46 |
| tumbleweed | but our RC bugs are usually bugs that are noticed during ISO testing. i.e. bugs that actually block releasing | 14:47 |
| tumbleweed | that and bugs that are critical enough that the release team is informed of them | 14:47 |
| ClassBot | UndiFineD asked: looking at the number of rc-bugs, the number seems to decrease, how many are caused by kfreebsd and can i easily check that ? | 14:50 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 14:50 |
| tumbleweed | so, yes, Debian is releasing with kfreebsd as supported architectures, in wheezy | 14:52 |
| tumbleweed | http://release.debian.org/wheezy/arch_qualify.html | 14:52 |
| tumbleweed | the number decreases, because people put attention into fixing them | 14:53 |
| tumbleweed | (although, it generally climbs a bit after the freeze, as people notice bugs in all the last-minute uploads) | 14:53 |
| tumbleweed | freezing testing means developers aren't introducing new bugs (hopefully), and effort should mostly go into RC bug fixing | 14:54 |
| tumbleweed | as to bugs caused by kfreebsd. I see a bunch of usertags that may be helpful in finding them | 14:55 |
| tumbleweed | http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/bts-usertags.cgi?user=&tag=*kfreebsd* | 14:55 |
| tumbleweed | of course, not all of those will be RC | 14:55 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 14:55 |
| tumbleweed | and many architecture-specific RC bugs can be solved by removing the binary packages from that architecture | 14:56 |
| tumbleweed | (assuming they have no significant reverse dependencies) | 14:56 |
| ClassBot | Rcart asked: can we use ubuntu's procedure to fix bugs in Debian? Like setting up an instance of Debian in pbuilder? I mean, fixing Debian bugs from Ubuntu? | 14:56 |
| tumbleweed | yes, you can easily set up a debian chroot in pbuilder | 14:57 |
| tumbleweed | pbuilder-dist create sid | 14:57 |
| tumbleweed | should work | 14:57 |
| tumbleweed | Debian and Ubuntu are incredibly similar, under the hood | 14:58 |
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/07/31/%23ubuntu-classroom.html | 15:00 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || | ||
| tumbleweed | I guess that's it everyone. Thanks | 15:01 |
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