[02:36] I wonder if it's a bad thing that Fedora seems really attractive to me right now... [02:40] ...Just after I read about it having mate. [02:40] What about what? >.> [02:40] Oh yeah, the gnome2 thingy? [02:40] Yep. [02:41] I'm a KDE guy myself and was impressed at how responsive it was even on a vbox [02:42] I'm not a fan of MATE/Gnome2/Unity/Gnome3, but not exactly tried them either. :P [02:43] Fedora seems to have a somewhat more open community as well. :/ [02:43] Not to say Ubuntu's closed, but it's better then say Debian. Communities without an enforced Conduct I tend to avoid >.> [03:15] Meh. the enforced CoC is becoming.. well.. remember what Linus said about monkeys and BSD? [03:16] canthus13: And without it "You noob, go back to windows!" is the attitude of the day. Which doesn't help anyone. >.> At least there's a recourse and some social pressure to not be an ass to everyone else. [03:16] True. [03:17] Not saying it's perfect, but I personally don't like to see people being ridiculed for not knowing everything about the system [03:17] I'm not saying we don't need it.. I'm just saying some people wield it like a weapon. At least, they did... I've pretty much pulled out of any ubuntu-related things, aside from here and the forbidden ##club-ubuntu, whose very mention will have you banned from certain other official channels. :/ [03:18] I don't know what's up with that, and also avoid most major channels, but it's good to know someone can't get away with being a total ass on the forums or in #ubuntu [03:19] O [03:19] I'm also referring to the changes in the CoC that came up a while back, which basically said 'agree or get out of my clubhouse!' [03:20] Did they ever sort that mess out? [03:27] Doesn't appear they merged it. If they ever choose to do so I'd have to step down from any so-called 'leadership' work I do related to it. [03:32] Ok. [03:32] * canthus13 shrugs. [03:33] I dunno. If I find a community that's less anal about itself, I'll likely jump ship. [03:33] If fedora didn't use yum/rpm I'd already be there. :/ [03:34] Debian I'd love to support but the attitudes I've seen running around there make me less then thrilled about needing a hand with 'anything' that breaks. >.> [03:34] If fedora wasn't redhat based I'd be there already. [03:36] Nice thing about redhat though is their focus is more on enterprise servers then user desktops. [03:37] * canthus13 nods. [03:37] * canthus13 doesn't need an enterprise server. Debian works fine for his servers. [03:37] For my servers I use whatever I'm running on my desktop at the time. :/ Lazy but it makes testing easier [03:38] Heh. [03:38] I use Mint on desktops and Debian on servers. [03:39] I won't touch mint if you paid me. I'm still of the opinion that project steals from whoever they can. The mozilla ad-theft nonsense never did get admitted by them. [03:40] * canthus13 shrugs. It works, and works well. they've prolly got one of the better implementations of gnome 3 that I've seen. [03:40] But then I'm told I hold grudges so that's more me then anything. >.> [03:40] * canthus13 holds grudges... He still hates the Tigers for beating San Diego. [03:41] ....in 1984. [03:41] hah, For what it's worth, I saw a few benchmarks that gave Fedora about 10-20% speed boost compared to Ubuntu. [03:41] so it can annoy me faster than ubuntu. :P [03:41] Exactly! [03:42] The few times I've tried Fedora it's been a disappointing mess. [03:42] I was just at PyOhio this weekend and it looked to be the distro of choice around there anyway heh. [03:42] * canthus13 nods. [03:43] I 'can' say I didn't catch a sniff of Unity. :P [03:43] heh. I still don't like unity. [03:43] I tried it on my laptop [03:43] It lasted 24 hours. [03:43] And this was a full install mind you, not a live disk. [03:46] heh. [03:46] I threw it on a VM... it's like... someone took Gnome3 and broke it. [03:47] To be fair, I tried Gnome 3 for 5 minutes and it seemed the same level of stupidity [03:52] It is if you use it as-is... Mint's version is nice, if you get rid of the bottom panel and that stupid menu system. [03:52] Sane defaults would be nice [03:52] * canthus13 nods. [03:53] I still prefer gnome 2, mind you. [03:54] It wasn't bad. I fell in love with KDE though. [04:04] Is it just me, or is about 98% of all poorly configured mail servers running exchange? [04:05] sure, let me make my email server stupider, and let in more spam, just so I can accept email from brain dead M$ exchange servers [04:05] fuck email [04:06] Fuck MacMail. :/ [04:06] nah, fuck all of email... [04:06] BiosElement: I do agree with you there on mint, not touching it other than maybe poking at their Xfce spin, maybe. [04:07] if your business relies on email to survive, spend the money and hire a non-moron...or outsource it so it's some one elses problem [04:07] thafreak: Agreed [04:07] wait, why you guys anti-mint? [04:07] * canthus13 isn't. [04:07] Unit193: I've poked their KDE spin, it's just a restyled Kubuntu really [04:08] thafreak: I am because I'm of the opinion they steal from other projects, add little of their own, ignore licenses and then pretend it never happened. But that's me >.> [04:08] so you think they're microsoft? :) [04:08] thafreak: No, They make microsoft look good at times. [04:08] ouch [04:12] My bad BTW [04:12] As of July, They're still hijacking browser search results. [10:22] BiosElement: you left out my top beef about mint [10:22] Oh? [10:22] everyone treats them like a distro [10:23] haha, they claim to be one last I looked. [10:23] really? [10:23] that is pretty shitty, given they point back to others' repos for most stuff [10:24] At least Ubuntu is mostly self-hosted >.> [10:24] if they ran their own buildd's for everything that'd be different [10:24] yeah [10:43] If I have to ask someone what details they're using with FTP because it keeps telling them to try agian, I'm gonna start writing a browser upload system >.> [10:46] As amazing as it sounds, "It's broke" is painfully useless to me. [13:35] ftp as in port 23? [13:35] like, real old-school ftp, instead of sftp? [13:35] * dzho is uncertain as to what use case for ftp can't be covered by http and sftp/ssh these days. [13:43] 21 [13:43] Telnet uses TCP 23, FTP uses 21 and 20. [13:43] here's a use...ftp you can setup non-system, i.e. virtual ftp only users [13:43] o/ [13:44] sftp...i haven't found a decent way to do that yet [13:44] plus lots of software supports ftp... [13:44] it's plain and simple [13:45] but if anyone knows how to create virtual sftp users who don't clutter up my password file and can't get a shell or do anything else ssh is capable of, I'm listening [13:46] i know how to do the last part...i found how to force users to only get the sftp binary and never a shell, and to chroot them... [13:47] You could use vsftpd and leverage LDAP authentication. [13:48] i use pure-ftp...i meant how to do that with sftp [13:50] http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/howto-configure-sshd-to-use-openldap-server.html [13:51] yeah, but that's a hassle too :) ldap is nice for places with lots of machines and all [13:51] ldap is great. [13:51] but with pure-ftp, I can have virtual users in a simple text file...a mysql database, etc [13:51] ldap is alright...it's overkill most of the time :) [13:52] db.debian.org, bah [13:52] brah* [13:52] it makes my life so much easier [13:52] not only people, but also domain records, machines, etc [13:52] it's great [13:53] i know dude...I was setting up ldap servers when you were potty training :) [13:53] :| [13:54] and for the record I *hate* ftp... [13:54] well I don't have a problem with it...but I *hate* running it as a service for others [13:54] no one knows how to use it [13:54] NO ONE [13:54] you just get emails all day everyday..."ftp server doesn't work" [13:55] no it does...you're just an idiot [13:55] you can't use internet explorer is all, moron [13:55] you can use chrome [13:55] or firefox [13:55] or opera [13:55] or … well … most other browsers [13:55] most don't let you upload... [13:56] and they ALL try to log you in anonymously...and I *always* setup my ftp servers to deny anonymous [13:56] which is where the problems start [13:56] they stick your ftp server info in their browser, which tries anonymous login [13:56] and boom, they get an error [13:57] then the emails start...you'r ftp server doesn't work [13:58] I wish I had all the days back that I wasted tracking down non-existent ftp problems [13:58] so...anyway...sorry to hijack the convo in here [13:59] for the record, I've been trying to push people to use either ajaxplorer or now owncloud [14:00] browser uploads for the masses... [14:00] alright, I'm done bitching...I'll leave now so normal conversation can continue [16:13] thafreak: ah, 21 [16:13] sign error ;-) [16:14] I challenge the idea that ftp is "plain and simple" given that it has this weird two-port, active/passive complexity going on [16:14] http is plain and simple [16:15] and since you're going to want to chroot your ftp server anyway, why not just chroot your ssh server and put users in the chroot's /etc/passwd? === jrgifford is now known as Guest1233