[02:20] <geofft> is upstart.at known to be down? if it's permanently down, should links in the cookbook point to e.g. netsplit.com instead? 
[03:51] <SpamapS> geofft: I hadn't noticed that it was down, but perhaps we should correct that
[03:52] <geofft> yeah, not all the posts are on netsplit.com, looks like. 
[03:53] <geofft> should I consider this reported, or should I email upstart-devel? 
[12:02] <alexbligh> I want to start an upstart job after the root filesystem has been remounted r/w, but before udev is started. What is the best way to achieve this?
[12:03] <alexbligh> (the job is a task)
[12:54] <yatesy> Hi folks, is it actually possible to trigger upstart to re-read the definition of an upstart service without having stop and start the service? Ideally I'd love the ability to restart a running service and it act on changes in the definition
[13:04] <jodh> alexbligh: mountall is going to emit the 'mounted' event when '/' is remounted r/w but udev starts on 'virtual-filesystems' which occurs before local disks are mounted. See http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#mountall-events.
[13:04] <jodh> alexbligh: 'start on started virtual-filesystems' (from #ubuntu-devel) is incorrect - 'virtual-fileystems' is an event, not a job.
[13:05] <jodh> alexbligh: see upstart-events(7).
[13:14] <alexbligh> jodh, Does udev actually run with / mounted readonly? What I need to do is write a file before persistent-net-rules is used (in essence I need to store the state somewhere else because / is on a ramdisk)
[13:16] <jodh> alexbligh: theoretically yes since the 'virtual-filesystems' event gets emitted before any local filesystems are (re-mounted), but realistically the disk might be mounted r/w by the time udevd starts.
[13:17] <alexbligh> Given udevd writes stuff to / (I believe) how does it avoid getting disk read only errors?
[13:20] <jodh> alexbligh: I don't think it does write to / - it writes to /dev/.udev/ and /run/udev, both being on virtual filesystems.
[13:22] <alexbligh> hmmm....
[13:23] <jodh> alexbligh: maybe you could write a udev rule to run a program that would "find" the state you're talking about?
[13:24] <alexbligh> jodh, the state is the contents of persistent net rules. But I think you are saying the persistent net rules udev script could run when / is read only.
[13:24] <jodh> alternatively, if you will always have an initramfs, you could call whatever program you want from the initramfs, *then* start Upstart. This is how friendly-recovery works on Ubuntu (see /etc/init/friendly-recovery.conf and penultimate line of /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init).
[13:25] <alexbligh> jodh, will upstart work if I mount / read-write?
[13:25] <jodh> yes - mountall just sees that it doesn't need to remount /.
[13:26] <alexbligh> jodh, ok, so if I make a task on the starting event for udev, I could remount / readwrite in there?
[13:26] <jodh> alexbligh: however, take care wrt fsck
[13:27] <alexbligh> fsck isn't needed because it's a ram disk we've just tftpbooted :-)
[13:27] <jodh> alexbligh: yes, but then you'll be potentially fighting against mountall which will also be trying the same operation around the same time.
[13:28] <alexbligh> jodh, Can I make this start on mountall starting OR udev starting (so it will start before either of them)? In which case any idea how I do that?
[13:31] <alexbligh> jodh, i.e. 'start on starting udev or starting mountall' (or something similar)
[13:32] <jodh> alexbligh: that will potentially run 2 instances of the job (although not if the time the 2nd event arrives occurs before the job has finished).
[13:33] <alexbligh> jodh, that won't be an issue because I will make the job idempotent
[13:33] <alexbligh> jodh, but is the syntax right?
[13:35] <jodh> alexbligh: yes.
[13:36] <alexbligh> jodh, fantastic, thanks!
[14:05] <SpamapS> jodh: hey. I was wondering.. are we expecting any upstart features in 12.10 ?
[14:24] <jodh> SpamapS: yeah. Currently working on a biggie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/QuantalUpstartStatefulReexec
[14:24] <jMCg> Can I disable "respawn" in an .override file? -- This is sort of relevant for pacemaker jobs, which are the ones that do the management here.
[14:26] <jodh> jMCg: no as you can't meaningfully create an override file without that stanza and have it override an already defined 'respawn' in the .conf.
[14:26] <jodh> jMCg: I don't follow why you want to do this.
[14:27] <jMCg> jodh: because if you have the job running in a cluster, you don't want the cluster think that the job is dead, start it on a different node, while upstart restarts it on the same node again, that would be not very good in most cases.
[14:42] <SpamapS> jodh: Oh cool!
[14:42] <jodh> SpamapS: it's pretty close right now.
[14:43] <SpamapS> jMCg: you could effectively disable it by setting the respawn limits very low
[14:44] <SpamapS> jMCg: I don't know if upstart will allow it, but you could try 'respawn limit 0 1'
[14:45] <SpamapS> jMCg: actually 'respawn limit 0 999' would be better.. meaning "if it dies more than 0 times in 999 seconds"
[14:51] <jMCg> SpamapS: so long as I can put that in an .override file.
[15:06] <SpamapS> jMCg: yes you can
[15:06] <SpamapS> jMCg: 'respawn' and 'respawn limit' are two different stanzas
[15:14] <jMCg> ACK