[00:10] so it was an nvidia thing? [00:10] nvidia driver prob? [11:57] debian seems much slower than arch :/ [12:10] slower how binarymutant [12:11] uses more resources, iceweasel/firefox is using an insane amount of cpu [12:12] so does X [12:12] binarymutant: curious why did you swap? [12:12] wrst, because I didn't like the fact that Arch got rid of their install scripts just bc it wasn't being maintained [12:13] binarymutant: they will be back likely and you had it installed already :) [12:14] wrst, they shouldn't have dropped them at all [12:14] Arch bothers me on how the distro decides to do things [12:15] i would think they should maintain them, but there had been no commits to the code in 4 months and in that four month period you have had signed packages, lib dissappear, and also move to grub2 so i don't think it would have functione with all of that [12:15] i'm pretty sure grub2 was the nail in the coffin [12:15] like I would wake up one day and /lib would be gone - just cuz :P [12:16] well ubuntu fedora etc etc have been moving some things around also but since its in a release its usually "cleaner" [12:16] which is the inherent problem with a rolling release [12:16] but i almost smoked my ubuntu server due to some things like that and the solution wasn't well documented but at least with arch the silly stuff is well documented :) [12:17] yep netritious if you aren't ready for "breakage" as they say in arch land you probably don't need it but to me its easier than 6 month upgrades [12:17] wrst, just bc something isn't active doesn't mean it should be dropped. especially if it's a core piece of software [12:17] and I get and also respect that. "different strokes..." so they say... [12:17] they should have continued to provide it while a fork or replacement was being worked on. Or until someone else picked it up [12:18] but binarymutant it wouldnt' function any more :) [12:18] grub2 wouldn't work with it [12:18] exactly netritious [12:19] and netritious i must say last night i was having a printer issue and i booted to my ubuntu partition and it just worked, due to all the speed etc in arch, well i didn't have the package installed :) [12:19] lol wrst...what printer do you have? [12:19] idk [12:20] its an HP deskjet of some sort its in the HPLP or whatever it is package but it wasn't installed [12:21] binarymutant: it does appear that arch dropping the installer was for convenience, not b/c of some principal eg KISS [12:21] which is what i thought [12:21] at first anyway [12:21] but wrst you are saying they dropped b/c of grub2? [12:21] *dropped the installer [12:21] netritious: i suspect because it comes with grub the iso does [12:22] I don't get that...grub2 has been the standard in most distributions I've come across for over a year now, if not longer [12:22] and by the arch definition of simplicity actually it makes more sense to not have an installation framework [12:23] yes and no...if you want someone to adopt your distribution it should have an installer. [12:23] yep netritious, but they haven't released a snapshot iso in right at a year so grub2 i think was still beta at the time [12:23] netritious: i agree, but I really dont' think they care :) [12:23] I only see boot-strapping happening on embedded systems [12:23] yes [12:23] ** [12:23] i use arch for a learning tool not for the friendly community :) [12:24] I prefer how Debian does things [12:24] but it's stale + slow :/ [12:25] tried gentoo binarymutant? [12:25] yeah once [12:25] emerge and stage -- if I can remember [12:26] I haven't yet, but it's on my list. [12:26] I'm not much of a distro swapper [12:26] me neither, although lately I've been testing a lot. [12:27] using VM's makes it ez-pz [12:27] yeah [12:28] wrst: you don't have to justify your use of arch...we know you're a linux snob XD [12:28] kidding of course [12:28] oh netritious far from it just an aspiring linux snob :) [12:28] but i must say that made me appreciate the work that goes into ubuntu last night [12:28] :) [12:29] yeah, Ubuntu Just Works™ [12:30] netritious: i guess if i could have debian testing with something rc.conf like i would be in geeky linux heaven [12:30] what about it do you like wrst? rc.conf? [12:31] netritious: i can tell what to start or not to start on boot daemons, modules, networking all in one central file [12:32] with ubuntu i still haven't figured that one out or if there is a solution to that [12:32] for instance if i don't want to start gdm/ldm/kdm etc on boot just don't have it in your rc.conf daemons line [12:34] /etc//etc/init [12:34] whoops [12:34] /etc/init wrst [12:35] netritious: i'm greeted with about a million config files [12:35] true, but the point is to be modular...I guess it's just a different goal [12:36] and from a programmers point of view, having all resources (startup or code) in one file is bad practice [12:36] netritious: http://pastebin.com/p9y3NT9d [12:37] from my user poitn of view i love it :) [12:37] what happens if you screw something up editing that one file, or that one file is on a location on disk that develops bad sectors? whole system breaks? [12:37] *in a location [12:37] not knocking it, just stating my case [12:38] yes i see the point but if you are that serious about your system and don't have proper backups and don't backup your conf files before you edit them you deserve what you get really dont you? [12:38] eh maybe. lol [12:38] i just like the control [12:38] * wrst may be a control freak [12:39] you are so the control freak, always kicking ppl off-topic in channel and stuff [12:39] on my daemons i like being able to background some to increase boot time etc [12:39] netritious: want to talk about guitars? :) [12:39] :D [12:39] and also that's how bsd does it if i'm not mistaken also all through rc.conf? [12:40] i'm not certain anymore....it has been many years since I messed with a bsd flavor [12:41] i know last time i set it up a few months ago i had to do some /etc/rc.conf editing i think to get kdm to fire up and that sort of thing using free bsd [12:41] sounds right [12:41] but all that being said netritious there is no way on earth i would install arch linux for anyone! if you aren't savvy enough to install it you can't run it [12:42] hence my latest accusation that ppl that run arch are linux snobs looool, with the exception of wrst [12:43] and when I say snob I mean purist [12:43] oh yeah they are [12:43] certainly i am afarid to even think abotu asking a question in their irc channel [12:44] I did and it was completely ignored. Not the first or last time though. [12:44] In that channel or some other. It happens. [12:45] oh well being ignored is probably them being kind [12:45] i have witnessed them just absolutely filet people [12:45] and as Unit193 showed me if you do !ubuntu you get this link: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rbeqbj-n1Z0/Skeak1qBGyI/AAAAAAAAAeM/3k_ntrDWmOw/s1600-h/ubuntu.png [12:46] lol [12:47] some people don't care to know about every single little detail as they have other details to worry about [12:47] yeah that's pretty funny but at the same time because someone uses ubuntu doesn't mean they are "simple" could mean that someone doesn't want to spend 3 days getting a system running [12:47] exactly [12:47] and netritious i just found something that is gold for me rcconf package [12:49] oh well it doesn't really work but at least its there :) [12:53] wb binarymutant :) [12:54] did I cut out? [12:55] yep at 7:37 and back in at 7:51 [12:58] oh :/ [12:59] and also binarymutant you might want to set your client up to us sasl because your IP is revealed also [12:59] [07:51:54] --> binarymutant (~binarymut@c-69-254-97-26.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #ubuntu-us-tn [12:59] [07:51:54] <-- binarymutant (~binarymut@c-69-254-97-26.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has quit (Changing host) [12:59] [07:51:55] --> binarymutant (~binarymut@unaffiliated/binarymutant) has joined #ubuntu-us-tn [13:00] sorry binarymutant that was a little linux snobbish of me but figured since you had a cloak you would prefer your IP not show at all [13:00] doesn't bother me to show my ip [13:01] but what's sasl? [13:01] oh ok [13:01] authentication method [13:01] i don't really know what it is binarymutant but it identifies you before you get logged in :) [13:01] yeah what netritious said [13:01] hm [13:02] I'll try it out, but the networks that I should have a cloak (rizon) I don't, and the networks I don't need a cloak (freenode and oftc) I do [13:03] yeah i dont' suspect netritious is going to hack me if he was he could have already [13:03] <- not very security concerned [13:04] I think netritious hacked me yesterday [13:04] today my computer is running faster [13:05] Firefox 14.0.1 is much faster than Debian's Iceweasel/FF 10 [13:05] xTEMPLARx, lol [13:05] howdy b [13:06] hello [13:06] brb makin' breakfast [13:07] lol [13:07] mornin netritious and wrst [13:08] mornin' xTEMPLARx [13:08] xTEMPLARx: what you made it back, we are proud of you! [13:09] binarymutant: wow they are just at FF10?? and you are running testing? [13:10] * xTEMPLARx looks at wrst disapprovingly. [13:10] lol [13:10] xTEMPLARx: not the first or last time that will happen to me for the day [13:11] lol probably true for me as well [13:12] i can't imagine that! [13:12] XD [13:13] boooo updates wanna restart [13:14] brb [13:16] wrst, FF10 on unstable [13:16] that's why debian makes a great server OS [13:16] yeah [13:19] wb xTEMPLARx [13:19] ty vm [13:21] well I hope this passes: http://bit.ly/NcDHP0 [13:22] mind you, i only have a surface-level understanding of it, not an indepth... [13:22] if its like most other bills in congress, they'll find some way to poison the apple juice [13:22] they have SLAPP in other states [13:23] I also like this comment: "Please FIX the system don't PATCH it!" [13:25] err they have anti-slapp in some states* [13:27] SLAPP a ho [13:27] it sure would be a game-changer though, if they could burden the lawsuit-bringer with the financial cost of their defendant's defense in court. It should force them to do what they SHOULDA done anyway, i.e., verify that they really have a legitimate case prior to ever going to court with it [13:27] xTEMPLARx, that's what the anti-slapp laws do [13:28] netritious: I didn't know you were native american [13:28] watching htop is making me mad >:( [13:28] this could also encourage more defendants to seek better (more expensive) counsel to [13:28] binarymutant, why for? [13:28] counsel or council? [13:28] sel [13:29] xTEMPLARx, because both my cpu's are running at 50% bc of 1 flash video [13:29] xTEMPLARx: actually I do carry more than a moderate amount of native DNA [13:29] binarymutant, strange [13:29] my DNA is native to me [13:29] touche [13:29] running 2 flash videos and both cpu's will run at 75%, it's making me mad [13:30] binarymutant: it could be the video, not neccesarily flash. HD video? poorly written streamer? high CPU usage. [13:31] otoh, it could be sid is sucking right now :/ [13:31] 360p [13:31] sid is sucking :/ [13:31] youtube or.... [13:32] maybe it is time to find a new distro that I can stick with :/ [13:32] hm. Maybe try Mint? [13:33] according to distrowatch, very very popular. [13:33] the derivative of a derivative? [13:33] I'd say that would be running debian sid anyways [13:33] yeah, kinda why I don't bother. [13:34] gotta do some research before I switch to the next distro [13:34] there is a debian vs of mint, but then you would be right back where you are now maybe [13:45] http://wiki.archbang.org/index.php?title=Main_Page "Arch Linux is under going changes, upgrades and improvements to the Arch Linux system, and so for the time being we recommend that you do not use Arch/ArchBang as your sole OS." [13:47] but...but... you can't try Mint. How will you enjoy your Unity interface on Mint? [13:51] maybe I'll just try to figure out what's going on with debian [13:52] there's always Fedora [13:52] I hear lots of good things about it [13:53] yeah I haven't used rpm since 2002ish [13:59] same here [14:00] I used to be a RH fanatic after I ditched slackware [14:00] then when the whole fedora thing came out I started losing interest [14:00] There's always Ubuntu :D [14:01] I switched to debs for apt-get and when RH got yum I tried it but it was super slow compared to apt [14:01] at the time** [14:02] afk [14:36] anyone use the nouveau driver? [14:38] for Nvidia? [14:39] yeah [14:40] Not I... I've been using the NVIDIA supplied drivers for a while now [14:40] have an update i need to install now, actually [14:40] the last time I used the nouveau driver it was very young [14:40] brb [15:17] finally. Nothing like dealing with video drivers in the morning [15:20] lol [15:20] i want to install mine, but it won't let me install as long as an X server is running [15:20] not sure how to kill GDM/X on ubuntu 12.04 [15:21] /etc/init.d/gdm stop [15:21] not without going further than I really want to [15:21] I think ubuntu still has sys-v compatibility [15:21] tried that, and it didn't work :\ [15:21] and nope [15:21] its all upstart now [15:22] when I try to use the sys-v init scripts, I get a message telling me to use service gdm stop [15:22] which fails every time with "unknown instance" [15:22] ctrl+alt+backspace? [15:23] it's either gdm, gdm3, or lightdm [15:23] that may be my problem, net... thanks for the tip [15:23] I thought upstart still supported sys-v init.d scripts :/ [15:24] ctrl+f1, service {gdm,gdm3,lightdm} stop [15:24] well upstart uses /etc/init versus /etc/init.d [15:24] systemd still has init.d compat [15:25] but you knew that [15:27] upstart says it still supports sysvinit [15:28] oh well, not my thing [15:28] right, but if the script is in /etc/init and not in /etc/init.d and there is no symlink, wouldn't /etc/init.d/{script here} fail? [15:28] whee! [15:29] netritious, yes [15:29] when you said that, net, it rang a bell, as I remembered seeing a lot of lightdm entries in a ps output I had done earlier [15:29] netritious, but that's pretty literal :P [15:29] all that only to find out that the nvidia installer is not finding all of what it needs... guess I'll mess with it later when I have more time [15:30] nvidia sucks on my card, too many bugs. Try nouveau it's awesome [15:30] AND it does glx [15:30] binarymutant: +1 I use nouveau on ubuntu [15:31] it's good stuffs [15:32] hrm [15:33] i tried the nvidia drivers once, I think the last time was with 10.04, then there was a kernel update, and X failed to start on reboot. I never bothered again. [15:33] installing now... if I disappear for a while you'll know why [15:33] NVIDIA drivers have done very well by me for a long time now [15:33] both here and at home [15:33] give me full control of card settings and everything [15:33] haven't had any problemos [15:34] but here lately, I've had a few nvidia-related crashes. still, its been a long time since I've updated NVIDIA, while the machine has gone thru an upgrade or two [15:34] I couldn't restart my laptop bc of nvidia :/ [15:34] or switch to the consoles [15:35] I hear good things about 'em, just sharing my experience. It could very well be I wasn't holding my mouth right or something. [15:35] or the card I was using [15:35] 9600GT [15:36] heck at this point I don't even know how to switch to the nouveau driver :D [15:36] this one is a 9800 GT I think [15:36] yup 9800 GT [15:37] my ubuntu workstation now has a 460GT, winders workstation has 560GTX? I thinkit's GTX, might just be GT though [15:38] if I were honest, its been a long while since I was able to delve into what's current and what the different model numbers represented [15:38] with a family going, I don't have the time or money to keep a "current" machine going lol [15:39] I get that. If I wouldn't have gotten a bonus earlier this year I wouldn't have been able to afford it myself. [15:39] i have to wait for the occasional income tax refund [15:39] those are my bonuses [15:39] lol [15:40] lol [15:41] i started a new contract back in feb, which ends tomorrow actually, so no more upgrades for quite some time for me. [15:42] but quad core 960-T, 8GB low latency ram, evga 560 GTX, sata II velociraptors, who needs more for a workstation? :P [15:43] in five years that stuff will seem slow [15:43] but during those five years [15:43] you're good [15:44] :D [15:44] ^that's what I was thinking when I spent the money :D [15:44] good for another five years [15:45] I've been eye-balling the new 8-core Zambezi CPUs... ::drool:: [15:45] the mobo I have in my home machine I bought because of its expandability... it has a quad-core AMD in it now, but it supports more cores [15:45] same with ram [15:45] got 4gb when I bought it, but supports way more. just haven't had the spare cash [15:46] same here. what make/model? [15:46] it doesn't help that I'm a little-bit-of-everything sort of person... thus all my interests vie for any "spare" cash I may have [15:46] *4x2GB on the ram.... [15:46] * netritious can't does math [15:47] lemme look my mobo up [15:47] i can't ever remember [15:47] never heard of it, is that a new distro? [15:48] ^Spare Cash Linux ? [15:48] that's what I use lols [15:48] This'un. http://bit.ly/NcRwNm [15:48] oh wait no I use: No Cash Linux [15:49] me to binarymutant. Friends helped me out on win7...it's the only reason I have it was b/c it was free (x2) or $30 (student promo when released.) [15:49] binarymutant: i think that is the original linux distro :) [15:49] lols [15:49] xTEMPLARx, usb3? wow [15:50] ver ver nice...I know that mobo [15:50] lol wrst [15:50] binarymutant, yeah... yet I"ve never used it, since I don't own any usb3 devices [15:51] i have one of the black edition triple-core cpus with the fourth core unlocked [15:51] didn't know it was out yet [15:51] guess it is [15:51] I've had this mobo for more than a year though [15:51] going on 2 years I guess [15:51] this coming spring will be 2 years, that is [15:52] on par with my wifes mobo xTEMPLARx, but she has Athlon II x2, 8GB ddr3...was so cheap and bought around the same time I guess. [15:52] just gigabyte's micro atx version. [15:53] this has the AMD Phenom II X3 720 black edition, and a TwinFrozr 1GB GTS250 video card [15:53] geeze you guys must be gamers [15:53] 4 gb of GSKILL ram [15:53] if the machine can't play games, its of no use to me [15:54] wifes board: http://goo.gl/SQVab [15:54] ^it runs the HTPC [15:54] that works :D [15:54] how long have you used AMD, net? [15:55] I have a hauppauge? PCIe tv card, basic cable. [15:55] always [15:55] I've been an intel fanboy up until this machine, my first AMD [15:55] since 8088 clones. [15:55] i have to admit [15:55] its been my favorite thus far [15:55] you get the most bang for the buck. [15:55] so much so that when I had to rebuild this machine here at work, I went with AMD as well [15:56] $199 is the most expensive desktop CPU for AMD on newegg right now, the latest CPU. [15:56] i have a phenomII X4 3.2ghz in this box, and the nvidia 9800 GT asus card [15:56] Intel's (I don't have to look) I bet is around $1,000 [15:56] nice setup xTEMPLARx! [15:57] it works pretty well [15:57] just wish I had another monitor to add to it :D [15:57] mine is a phenom II 960-T quad-core @ 3.0GHz, 3.4GHz Turbo "something or the other" [15:58] any of you using a dual-monitor setup with ubuntu ? [15:58] * netritious grabs the box [15:58] xTEMPLARx, I sort of am [15:58] sort of? [15:58] *Turbo Core [15:58] explain :D [15:58] xTEMPLARx: yes [15:58] xTEMPLARx, when I switch to xbmc my other monitor starts [15:58] net: any issues? [15:58] xbmc :D [15:58] i played with that for a while [15:58] it's fun [15:59] none with stock drivers on precise x64 [15:59] yeah its pretty nifty [15:59] better than always having my laptop in my face [15:59] binary: true that [15:59] netritious, very good. I know that X and multiple monitor support has always been somewhat of a problem [16:00] so I've not pushed the issue [16:00] no really an issue [16:00] not* [16:00] for openGL and other gaming purposes? [16:00] yeah it's fine, depending on the game obv [16:01] WoW [16:01] :D [16:01] can you play WoW on linux? [16:01] pfft yes [16:01] wine? [16:01] stock wine, at that [16:01] ah [16:01] runs nicely [16:01] I don't know how intensive WoW is, so maybe [16:01] just configure your Xorg to use separate screens [16:02] it can be pretty intensive, but Wine has grown quite a bit in the last several years [16:02] my winders workstation mobo: http://goo.gl/djQuA [16:02] my linux workstation mobo: http://goo.gl/SQVab [16:02] linux is about to trade up. [16:02] that's very colorful [16:03] trade up? [16:03] yeah, going to move winders to a vm [16:03] its ultra durable :D [16:03] I don't play my games anymore really. [16:03] use virtualbox on here for win7 and winxp [16:03] yeah me either [16:04] we also have a VMWare eSXi server here in the office that I put together with some other options on it [16:04] hey binarymutantI did try Urban Terror [16:04] that's an awesome game [16:04] I don't play with the frequency that I used to, but I still play when I need some "me" time [16:05] the only graphical computer game I play now is UrT [16:05] it was ok. for some reason I seem to gravitate to games based on the unreal engine, so I'm totally biased. [16:05] ^binarymutant [16:05] lol [16:05] I only play the quake engine :P [16:06] it's just one of those preference things is all. [16:06] there was one unreal that had huge maps and vehicles, I remember playing that [16:06] 2004? [16:06] yep [16:06] and UT3 [16:06] yeah that was fun [16:07] and I played the original UT a few times, but mostly stick with quake [16:07] I don't have UT3, but want to have it now, but I might just need to can the gaming and do some more serious work with servers, services, virtualization, etc. [16:08] oh yeah, the original UT...that was fun. [16:08] I played UT quite a bit back in the day [16:08] serious work is so boring though :/ [16:08] back in the day my wife would play that on a SFF compaq presario desktop with 733MHz PII lol [16:08] but no more than any others... probably spent more time in Quake3 than any of them [16:08] played a lot of duke nuke'em too [16:10] * wrst is all business [16:10] yeah right [16:10] i can never get anyone to buy that [16:10] lol [16:10] only reason my dekstop gets turned on is to play games [16:12] I knew it! [16:12] wrst the gamer [16:13] lol [16:13] we all are [16:13] yeah [16:13] lol === wrst changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-tn to: Meeting Tonight!!! Welcome to #ubuntu-us-tn the Tennessee Ubuntu Loco team | Visit our website http://www.ubuntu-tennessee.org/ | TN Loco forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=259 | Team wiki: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/tennessee.team | Next Team Meeting Thursday, August 2, 8:30PM EDT / 7:30PM CDT [16:14] * wrst threatens to kick xTEMPLARx [16:14] oh that went way different then what I was thinking [16:14] that's about right ^^^ [16:14] * xTEMPLARx pokes wrst in the eye with a hot stick. [16:15] you guys cut that out. this is virtually a violence free channel after all. [16:15] ha ha [16:18] well if wrst is gonna put on his big boy pants, I gotta arm myself with virtual tree branches [16:18] and poor old Genphlux walked into that sentence with no back-story to give it meaning [16:18] ha ha [16:21] lol [16:21] wb Genphlux [16:23] Svpernova09 should spam this channel, or at least spam the mailing list. [16:23]