/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/08/04/#ubuntu-uk.txt

=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
AzelphurIf I wanna plug an american device in the UK do I just need something like this? http://bit.ly/Oxw7iV or do I need something special re voltage?02:46
Seeker`depends on the voltage the device is rated for02:46
AzelphurI see, so always check the voltage, it needs to do 240?02:47
Seeker`pretty much02:47
Seeker`if it is 110v then don't plug it in02:47
Azelphurrighto :)02:47
MartijnVdSAzelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmcZIU8U8Nc05:30
AzelphurMartijnVdS: lol05:31
AzelphurMartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBMD485iG9g is good too :P05:31
soreauAzelphur: Generally speaking, .us electrical standard is 120VAC05:45
soreauAzelphur: The item you linked to has no 'specs' section or any indication it does any kind of electrical adaptation other than the physical plug05:48
MartijnVdSAzelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbB-mICjkQM ?06:05
dwatkinsmornin06:51
christelmorning lovelies07:17
czajkowskimorning07:24
* czajkowski hugs christel 07:24
christelhello lovely <307:28
* christel hugs czajkowski 07:28
MartijnVdSmorning!07:34
christelhiya MartijnVdS \o/07:34
* MartijnVdS wonders how many more holes the upstairs (downstairs?) neighbor can drill before the building collapses07:35
christelhaha07:36
jacobwguten morgen07:38
MartijnVdShoi jacobw07:38
jacobwwie gehts?07:38
christelich bin eine waschmaschine!07:39
christeler, i mean good morning jacobw :)07:39
MartijnVdSchristel: Oh, je hovercraft zit vol met paling?07:39
jacobwdas ist seltsam07:39
jacobwgood morning christel :)07:40
christeljij bent een paling!07:41
christel:o07:41
christelben? bent? i have no idea!07:41
MartijnVdSjij bent = OK07:41
* christel hugs MartijnVdS and jacobw 07:41
christelwoop07:41
jacobw:)07:41
christelmy dutch skills are clearly second to none :D07:41
christel(ahem)07:41
jacobwUS has more medals than China now07:49
MartijnVdSso.. less detectable dope?07:52
MartijnVdS</cynic>07:52
christelhahaha07:52
christel<307:52
* christel toodles off to the west country 07:53
MartijnVdS\o07:53
* jacobw decides what to do today08:15
MartijnVdSjacobw: "not much"? :)09:00
* jacobw decides what to do tomorrow instead09:02
brobostigongood morning everyone.09:05
jacobwhey brobostigon09:10
brobostigonhey jacobw09:10
jacobwhow are you now?09:10
brobostigonjacobw: on the mend, certainly with my eczema. my throat still feels pretty bad, and my nose is somewhat less runny. and you?09:11
Pendulummorning09:16
brobostigonmorning Pendulum09:16
Pendulumanyone up to anything exciting this weekend?09:19
jacobwgood :)09:22
jacobwi'm glad your eczema, the weather must be difficult09:23
brobostigonjacobw: it was worse, when it was hotter and more humid.09:23
brobostigonjacobw: now that it is cooling, it is helping.09:24
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
brobostigonarghhh, they have ditched click again, for sports. :(10:33
matttclick?10:33
brobostigonbbc click, the bbc's IT prog.10:34
brobostigonnormally broadcast on saturday 11:30am, bbc news 24.10:34
dwatkinsbrobostigon: not permanently, I hope10:34
dwatkinsBBC Click: the Firefly of tech news...?10:34
brobostigonthe bbc even trweeted that click would be on at this time.10:34
brobostigondwatkins: i hope not, either, yes.10:35
matttbrobostigon: is it any good?10:35
matttusually tech shows on tv are a bit dull10:35
brobostigonmattt: yes.10:35
matttafk, shopping :(10:36
* mattt weeps10:36
ali1234click is not very good10:36
ali1234the news is typically a two weeks old10:36
brobostigonwell, depends, some can be good, some less so.10:36
ali1234and it's presented in the style of one of those late 90s internet shows10:36
ali1234like "check out the cool websites we found this week" style10:37
brobostigonthats 2 minutes, right at the end.10:37
ali1234the whole show is presented in the same manner10:38
dwatkinsYeah, the Guardian tech podcast is better than BBC Click!.10:38
ali1234http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxvzj/Click_04_08_2012/10:39
ali1234yo can watch it online10:39
dwatkinsI just think it's good that the BBC is doing something in terms of tech news, even if it's not particularly good. Long gone are the days of Tomorrow's World etc., sadly.10:39
brobostigonali1234: yes, i know i can, it just annoys me, when they change things around, for things that are less than interesting.10:39
ali123420 seconds in and i'm already rolling my eyes10:39
dwatkinsPerhaps they'll do a 21st century version of Micro Live when the Raspbery Pi becomes popular... ;)10:39
ali1234dwatkins: that's basically what click is10:40
ali1234except with less technical content10:40
dwatkinsyeah, that's the trouble, it's too simplified.10:40
dwatkinsI guess they have to pander to the less technical audience.10:40
dwatkinsWe techies can go listen to network security podcasts if we feel like it, I suppose.10:41
ali1234oh boy, a piece about "tech overload"10:41
ali1234NO, I DON'T USE ANY OF THOSE WEBSITES10:41
ali1234AARGHARGHAGR10:42
ali1234*turns off click*10:42
dwatkinsShe's addicted.10:42
brobostigonali1234: do you happen to enjoy amateur drama?10:42
ali1234i don't think so10:43
dwatkinsIt's exactly the same as it's been for years - people get addicted to gossip or money-off coupons. The difference is now it's possible to do it all in your pyjamas.10:43
brobostigonali1234: it was a joke, the way you said it, was dramatic.10:43
dwatkinshaha, they interviewed someone in thick-rimmed glasses10:44
dwatkinssterotype #3276710:44
dwatkinsmultitasking makes you terrible at everything.10:44
ali1234someone needs to do a story about how everyone is using facebook and twitter and youtube and discovering that other people are jerks, and then blaming it on the internet, not realising that the internet was a much more easy going place before these websites existed10:46
dwatkinspeople weren't jerks initially?10:46
ali1234yes, but initially there was no facebook for them to be jerks on10:47
dwatkinstrue, I guess that blackboard cartoon is probably the case for a lot of people, too10:47
dwatkinsthe one about anonymity leading to idiocy10:47
ali1234that's not even it10:47
dwatkinsoh?10:47
ali1234idiocy leads to idiocy10:47
dwatkinsheh10:47
ali1234sure people used to troll on usenet but at least it was amusing10:48
ali1234compare usenet trolling to youtube arguments10:48
dwatkinsyeah, I assume that's the sheer number of people using the internet now leading to large numbers of idiotic noise and very little signal.10:48
ali1234right10:48
dwatkinsI turn off most youtube comments.10:48
ali1234but this is always presented journalistically as "oh look how terrible the internet is, it's full of trolls"10:49
dwatkinsah, I must be mostly avoiding those journalists.10:49
ali1234just read some tabloids10:49
dwatkins<sarcasm> let's turn off the internet, then </sarcasm>10:49
* MartijnVdS turns off dwatkins' internet10:49
dwatkinsI can't bring myself to read the Daily Mail, it makes me want to hit walls.10:49
dwatkins......$%*####### signal lost10:50
* dwatkins connects with his phone10:50
dwatkinscan't stop the signal...10:50
ali1234it's presented like malicious gossip and namecalling are a new thing caused by the internet, rather than the truth: which is that the "normal users" have brought it in with them from TV, news papers, and just general "real life"10:51
dwatkinsAnyway, I imagine the whole web 2.0 thing makes it really easy for even the least intelligent person to comment on something like a youtube video, thus bringing them all down to their level.10:51
dwatkinsarguments ensue due to simple misunderstandings, which often end in insults etc.10:52
MartijnVdSand then there's the people who troll on purpose11:24
dwatkinsah yes, I forget about those as I tend to /ignore them ;)11:28
ali1234everyone who trolls trolls on purpose11:33
ali1234that's the whole point11:33
MartijnVdSali1234: what are the other kind called then? Flamers? Idiots?11:42
brobostigonprats*11:42
ali1234the other type is called "people you disagree with"11:45
MartijnVdSsome of those are provably wrong though11:45
dwatkinsI hadn't realised how completely nuts the Mars lander's sky crane is.11:57
dwatkinsBBC Horizon tells all.11:57
penguin42oh yeh watched that last week - it's nuts11:59
dwatkinsyeah, especially the part where the rockets (hopefully) fire after it's dropped12:00
* penguin42 won't be watching it live12:01
MartijnVdSit's got so many points of failure it's insane12:49
dwatkinsMartijnVdS: yeah, the Beagle 2 failure was heartbreaking, but I got the impression they had far more luck-driven parts than NASA's lander.12:50
MartijnVdSoh for $2bn I'm sure they've considered lots of alternatives and failsafes :)12:51
MartijnVdSbut sca-rey12:51
ali1234hey, it's not my $2bn12:51
MartijnVdSyou've still got your $2bn locked in a vault somewhere? ;)12:52
MartijnVdSHmm.. someone managed to drive their car into the water at a place where the road goes UNDER the water12:53
ali1234bitcoins man12:53
penguin42MartijnVdS: Why would you have a road that goes under the water?12:55
MartijnVdSpenguin42: to cross it?12:59
penguin42obvious really12:59
bigcalmHola :)13:30
penguin42hey13:31
MartijnVdS¡hola!13:42
SuperEngineer& groet, dag, hallo as well ;)13:50
MartijnVdShoi SuperEngineer :)13:57
Seeker`MartijnVdS: someone turned your ! upside down!14:01
MartijnVdSSeeker`: ¿Really?14:02
Seeker`And your ?14:02
Seeker`Something strange going on here!14:02
MartijnVdS⸘OMG‽14:02
* Seeker` keeps an eye out for the punctuation vandal ¡14:03
Seeker`Wait, what?! They got me too!14:03
jacobwhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-1912424214:11
jacobwouch14:12
penguin42yeh, ouch14:14
jacobw14:14
MartijnVdSexactly14:15
jacobw:)14:15
ali1234💩14:15
ali1234some day i will paste that and it will actually work14:15
ali1234but not today14:15
jacobw14:16
* penguin42 wonders what http://www.dealextreme.com/p/laptop-pc-debug-card-expert-mini-pci-e-pci-lpc-diagnostic-board-w-dual-1-7-lcd-147590?r=99999999 is actually connecting to/displaying15:09
MartijnVdSto the PCI bus15:13
penguin42well, maybe - I mean it's offering mini-PCI-e, pci, and lpc (Low pin count) - and a display without saying what it displays - perhaps it's just displaying POST codes15:15
MartijnVdSprobably15:15
dogmatic69damn, GB almost overtook USA in that race17:09
zleaphttp://www.geek.com/articles/chips/odroid-x-is-like-a-quad-core-raspberry-pi-for-129-20120712/ <runs ubuntu18:27
Azelphurnice18:27
zleapyeah18:29
zleapwhy the hell do they need to put annoying music on these videos18:31
dogmatic69quad core :O18:36
zleapyeah18:36
AzelphurI just bought a galaxy s3 :P18:37
dogmatic69I was just going to moan about no hdmi, but see it has hdmi mini. never knew that existed18:37
dogmatic69*hdmi micro18:37
zleaphmm,  whats the betting the leads for that are expensive18:38
zleapnot many TVs are gonna have hdmi min input18:38
dogmatic69make sure to get gold plated leads ;)18:38
zleapyeah18:38
dogmatic69went to get hdmi cable for my pi, had the obligatory gold plated 75 quid lead argument with the sales guy18:39
gordi ordered an HDMI cable off amazon today, £6 but reduced from £90! what a steal!18:43
dogmatic69lol18:44
MartijnVdSAmazon Basics?18:44
dogmatic69more like "reduced to sensible levels"18:44
AzelphurI think I need more ram, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/August/IMG_20120804_193938.jpg18:44
gordamazon basics didn't do a cable long enough18:44
dogmatic69Azelphur: 6x 256mb?18:44
penguin42Azelphur: What size ?18:44
gordbut amazon basics are dirt cheep always anyway18:44
MartijnVdSali1234: didn't you already have 32GB?18:44
Azelphurhehe, 4GB a stick (maxed out the board)18:45
penguin42get yourself something that will take 32GB DIMMS then18:45
MartijnVdSthat's a lot of 640kb chunks18:45
penguin42....and a mortgage18:45
dogmatic69I got my board maxed out too. Too bad the max is 8GB :/18:45
Azelphurhaha18:45
Azelphurbitcoin price goes up, azelphur buys all the things18:45
dogmatic69You should be buying gfx cards with that money18:46
Azelphurgfx cards are useless, I already have ASICs on preorder18:46
dogmatic69a pair of running shoes?18:46
Azelphurhaha18:47
penguin42Azelphur: ASICs ?18:47
Azelphurpenguin42: application specific integrated circuits18:47
penguin42Azelphur: Yeh - for bitcoin?18:47
Azelphuryep.18:47
dogmatic69Azelphur: you had custom hw made for bitcoins?18:47
penguin42heck18:47
penguin42Azelphur: Where from?18:47
Azelphurdogmatic69: I didn't specifically commission it, but I bought said hardware yes18:47
Azelphurfrom butterfly labs18:47
dogmatic69Azelphur: ah ok18:47
Azelphurhttp://www.butterflylabs.com/products/ I have 3 of the BitForce Single 'SC' on preorder (the ones on the far right, not the $599 thing)18:48
dogmatic69Is a gfx card really needed for it? cant use normal servers then?18:48
Azelphurdogmatic69: you can use CPU, but any CPU on the planet is going to be useless, GPU is becoming useless, FPGA is current, ASIC is near future18:49
penguin42Azelphur: How do they compare to the crypto accelerators on CPUs?18:50
Azelphurpenguin42: no idea18:50
penguin42Azelphur: I guess those are cheaper than commercial cryptographic cards for bank security applications - which are more built to be ubersecure18:50
* Azelphur shrugs18:51
penguin42Azelphur: And is SHA256 all that you need?18:51
Azelphurpenguin42: yup18:51
Azelphurto give you some idea, my new ASIC farm is going to be about 36 times as fast as my current farm (8 x 5870)18:51
penguin42Azelphur: What would something like top of the line Radeons now give you - like 7xxx series?18:52
Azelphurpenguin42: depends on OC of course, but you get about 685MH/sec on a 797018:53
penguin42and your 5870?18:53
AzelphurI'm very high hashrate, 441MH/sec18:53
dogmatic69Azelphur: which one did you get from that products page?18:53
penguin42Azelphur: Interesting18:54
AzelphurI don't really see anyone getting close to my hashing speeds though18:54
AzelphurI spent a long time tuning my cards and software, I have custom operating systems, bios reflashed cards, the whole thing is super optimised18:54
Azelphurdogmatic69: bitforce SC single on the far right18:54
dogmatic69damn, sounds like a full time job :D18:54
Azelphurhehe, it was, although now it doesn't require much maintenance18:55
Azelphurhttp://home.azelphur.com/mgpumon/ may interest people :P18:55
dogmatic69I guess the bitcoins are tax free. Doubt there is a space to declare them18:55
penguin42Azelphur: You didn't consider their Minirig then?18:55
Azelphurpenguin42: FPGA or ASIC minirig?18:56
Azelphur(they have the same naming for both the FPGA and ASIC ones)18:56
Azelphurwell the answer to both is that they are out of my price range, anyway18:56
penguin42Azelphur: Oh didn't relaise some of the stuff on their page was FPGA18:56
Azelphurpenguin42: yea, basically the left and middle are FPGA, and the right bar is all ASIC18:56
penguin42ah ok18:57
dogmatic69damn, and you get 25.2GH @ $15,295 vs 40GH @ $1,29918:58
Azelphuryep, it's a huge change for bitcoin18:58
dogmatic69how much would 40GH/s equate to in quid18:58
Azelphurdogmatic69: I could calculate that for right now, what it equates to now will not be valid in a matter of hours18:59
dogmatic69sure18:59
penguin42Azelphur: Presumably the availability of things like that will cause the price to drop though?18:59
dogmatic69I know it will get less and less18:59
Azelphurpenguin42: correct19:00
dogmatic69penguin42: it will make bit coins more scares19:00
Azelphurdogmatic69: right now, 19.75 (~£146.97) a day19:00
dogmatic6919.75 bitcoins?19:00
Azelphuryep19:00
dogmatic69k19:00
dogmatic69what would be the prediction then for sometime in september say?19:00
Azelphurit's practically impossible to make such a prediction, it depends on exchange rate, difficulty, amount of people who buy them19:01
penguin42you mean there isn't a short'ing market for them?19:01
AzelphurI'd say "less" but by how much, you'd probably need a marketing genius to even take a rough guess.19:01
Azelphurpenguin42: yea but I'm not too up on stock trading so I have no idea, there's lots of options and stuff available though19:02
penguin42Azelphur: It's what the commodity traders do though isn't it?19:02
AzelphurI just sit on my 7%/week interest I get from BS&T mostly19:02
penguin42BS&T ?19:02
Azelphurbitcoin savings and trust19:02
penguin427% reflects I guess the uncertainty in price/dogieness of the system that might collapse19:03
Azelphurguess so19:03
Azelphurimo the price is only going to go up over the next few months though19:04
AzelphurI called this price hike a few months ago (Although I didn't think it would start happening till October)19:04
Azelphurbut yea, basically I'm just sitting on the price hike / interest rates and plan on cashing out a little later :)19:06
AzelphurAnyone know the cheapest courier to ship stuff to USA?19:17
penguin42thought there were some courier comparison sites somewhere19:20
* Azelphur shrugs19:21
MartijnVdSCourier New19:23
Azelphurlol19:23
cliftontsevening guys19:27
brobostigonevening cliftonts19:27
cliftontsanyone here know anything about python?19:28
Azelphuryep19:28
Azelphur?anyone19:28
cliftontsI'm trying to follow a tutorial and I've run into a brick wall19:29
Azelphurderp, this bot is ! :(19:29
Azelphur!anyone19:29
lubotu3A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.19:29
cliftontsfair enough19:30
cliftontsI'm writing a simple script to open a file and read from it19:30
cliftontsIf you load python and type the code in directly it works, but if I put it in a file and run the file it fails19:30
cliftontsThe line that fails is19:30
cliftontsfileObject = open("emill.dat",'r')19:30
Azelphurput the code and full error on http://pastebin.com19:31
cliftontsok, hang on19:31
cliftontsI think this is right19:32
cliftontshttp://pastebin.com/pH5cAYug19:32
matttpythonnnn!19:32
mattt.read() ?19:33
Azelphurcliftonts: you want read is a function not a variable19:33
Azelphuryou want read()19:33
cliftontsI'm just typing it as the tutorial gives it19:33
cliftontsbut the open statement is producing the error19:34
Azelphurtutorial is wrong find a better tutorial19:34
cliftontsso why if I load python and type it directly in does it work?19:34
Azelphurcliftonts: it shouldn't do.19:35
cliftontsvery odd.19:35
cliftontsOk, so how should the open statement look?19:35
Azelphurfine19:36
cliftontsit's the open statement that isn't working when I save it to file19:36
dogmatic69Azelphur: just had a look at your site. What is "shares". you have accepted / invalid there19:36
Azelphurcliftonts: http://pastebin.com/3KqkWzFT here's an example19:36
cliftontsthat example has the same code which isn't working19:37
Azelphurdogmatic69: I'm working as part of a pool, I do small chunks of work ("shares") and send them to the pool, sometimes the pool has moved on by the time I submit my work, making my share invalid19:38
cliftontsso nobody can help me then?19:39
Azelphur.....19:39
matttread isn't syntactically incorrect19:39
matttit won't throw that error19:39
matttbut it's still wrong19:39
Azelphuralso19:39
AzelphurI've just realised something19:39
cliftontsthe open statement does not work when I try to run it from file19:39
Azelphurthat error at the end of your file, it isn't a python error19:39
Azelphuryour trying to run python code in bash19:40
Azelphurhense why it's not working so well19:40
cliftontshow else do you go about writing a program?19:40
Azelphuron line 1, your declaration is incorrect, remove the space on column 319:40
Azelphurand, even after fixing that, what I said is still correct, that tutorial is written by a moron if it tells you to do this: fileContents = fileObject.read19:41
Azelphurfind a different tutorial.19:41
cliftontsplease,  forget that line. At the moment I just want to understand why running it from bash behaves differently to running in python19:41
Azelphuryour not running it from bash19:42
Azelphuryour running it in bash19:42
cliftontsyes19:42
Azelphurbash code is not python code19:42
cliftontsand what's the alternative?19:42
Azelphuryour python is being evaluated as bash19:42
Azelphurbecause your running it in bash19:42
Azelphuryou want to run it in python.19:42
zleappython programname.py19:43
cliftontsI wasn't aware you could load code into python like thar19:43
Azelphuryea, either that or fix your declaration on line 1 like I said earlier19:43
zleapif its a simple program i think you can19:43
Azelphurcliftonts: can I have a link to the tutorial your following?19:43
cliftontsI was using the python for kids tutorial but I'm being rather creative with it rather than just following blindly19:44
Azelphurhehe19:44
Azelphuryea, but in all honesty if it tells you to do fileContents = fileObject.read, you need to stop using that tutorial19:45
Azelphurbecause if someone can make a mistake like that, they havn't tested their code, or got past entry level python19:45
Azelphurand thus shouldn't be writing a tutorial19:45
cliftontsI'll look into that now, but I just needed to understand where I was going wrong in order to move on from here.19:46
Azelphurcliftonts: yea19:46
Azelphurdid you understand the things I told you?19:46
Azelphurthere was multiple mistakes so I went over all of them19:46
cliftontsLoading into python my program now does nothing, which I think is a step forward19:46
cliftontsYes I do, thanks19:46
Azelphurcliftonts: yep that means your python code is running "correctly"19:47
cliftontsyes and i now need to work on getting some output to the screen.19:47
Azelphurcliftonts: here's a fixed up version if you want it, http://pastebin.com/R6sgWinW :)19:48
Azelphurthat works with "./test.py" too, because I fixed the declaration on line 119:49
cliftontsit now just says <built-in method read of file object at 0xb77a7ee8>19:49
Azelphurcliftonts: yep, as I said your tutorial is wrooooong19:49
cliftontsI guess that's my dodgy read statement not working hehe19:50
Azelphurfile.read is a function, so your just assigning a variable to a function19:50
Azelphuryep19:50
cliftontsGot it19:50
Azelphurcliftonts: it's like if you do "a = open" then you could do a('emill.dat', 'r')19:50
Azelphurand it'd work19:50
Azelphurand a would be <built-in function open>19:51
cliftontsI think I'm going to go back to the tutorial and check to see if the mistake was theirs or mine19:51
Azelphuryea :P19:51
Azelphurif it's theres, run from that tutorial....run like the wind!19:51
Azelphurfeel free to nudge me if you have any more python questions, I know #python can be a bit useless19:51
cliftontsit was me, I obviously didn't copy it off accurately19:52
Azelphurhehe, fair enough :)19:52
cliftonts#python won't even let me in!19:52
Azelphurah, you have to have a registered nick19:52
cliftontsI'm sure I'll have many more over the coming months. I don't have net access atm so when I do I don't really have time to dig for answers but normally I hunt them out myself19:53
Azelphurbut word of warning they are usually quite hostile to beginners :(19:53
cliftontsyes, I noticed that.19:53
Azelphurgenerally they are too busy arguing about stuff to answer questions, and you just get a link to the manual (the entire manual, rather than any specific part that might answer your question)19:53
cliftontsI'm fluent in basic and I'm finding the essentals to be very familiar but of course there are lots of little culture shocks such as this one19:54
cliftontsI can read and understand code very well but writing it means lots of referring back to other people's work19:55
Azelphuryea I'm the same, code by example :)19:56
Azelphuryou'll have a lot of fun with python though, you can go very far very quickly19:56
cliftontsAlso I have performed this act of butchery on their tutorial because I learn better through having a practical problem to solve rather than going through lessons19:56
Azelphuryea same, I never really follow manuals or books, I just try and find examples for each part, and write what I actually want19:57
cliftontsI got bored learning about print (as opposed to basic's erm....print!) so I decided to convert one of my basic programs. The first thing it does is load a file19:57
Azelphur:)19:58
cliftontsMy next issue will be it's loaded a massive list of numbers and commas, but I need them in an array so I can reference them individually19:58
cliftontsso I need to work out if I load each one individually or if I take the lot in one go and somehow assign it to a list19:58
Azelphurcliftonts: you will no doubt find split and splitlines useful19:59
cliftontsno doubt. But making those decisions is all part of the learning curve.19:59
Azelphur:)20:00
cliftontsMy big issue is that quick basic has it's limits. I mean I've never considered working with gui, or accessing the net, or mouse or sound etc.20:00
MartijnVdSthere are libraries for all those things20:01
Azelphurheh, python can do all that easy20:01
cliftontsHow do I know what to look for if I have no core knowledge on that issue?20:01
Azelphurjusk ask :)20:01
cliftontsI know, but the point is I can use print becuase it's intuitive to a basic programmer. I can't even guess yet at the rest20:01
cliftontsshould be a challenge.20:01
Azelphurhehe20:01
cliftontsAnyway i have to go. Thanks for curing a serious headache for me20:01
cliftontsbye20:01
MartijnVdSWill something like 'Dive into Python' help?20:01
AzelphurMartijnVdS: I've been told dive into python is bad20:02
MartijnVdSAzelphur: it's not all bad, it gives a good overview20:02
MartijnVdSAzelphur: it's not very in-depth though20:02
* Azelphur shrugs20:02
MartijnVdSAzelphur: and has no "meta" bits (how to package up your code properly, for example)20:02
Azelphurhehe20:03
Azelphurpfft books anyway20:03
MartijnVdSbut there must be something _like_ it that's good and that can help him :)20:03
MartijnVdSAzelphur: it's online!20:03
Azelphurmy first python was "python irc example" into google, closely followed by a simple IRC bot.20:03
Azelphurwhat is this documentation you speak of :P20:04
MartijnVdSoh pydoc20:05
MartijnVdSIf you don't know, pydoc :)20:06
MartijnVdSand maybe ipython20:06
MartijnVdSthough I've heard people hate on that too20:06
Azelphurhehe20:14
bigcalmEvenin' all20:33
mattthowzit bigcalm?20:37
bigcalmmattt: wet :)20:37
bigcalmmattt: you?20:37
matttgood, just watching some tv :)20:43
matttwhy wet?20:43
bigcalmThe weather has that effect20:47
directhexlolworthy: http://ow.ly/i/Pb29/original20:58
directhexthe face on the yank is priceless20:58
bigcalmShould I be watching the games?21:01
DJonesShould have been, 3 cracking golds tonight21:01
directhexyou could... i'm busy being astonished that we're unshit21:02
directhexi don't see us dropping from third in the medal table now, tbh21:02
bigcalm!ohmy | directhex21:02
lubotu3directhex: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.21:02
directhexurgh21:02
* directhex checks when the watershed is21:03
DJonesIts just after the chickenshed21:03
bigcalmI don't think that there is any watershed. There's simply no swearing in this channel21:03
AzelphurAnyone know of a good netbook, small (<= 11" ideally), fast and good battery life (10+ hours)?21:06
dogmatic69Azelphur: ~= iPad21:35
AzelphurNo.21:35
AzelphurxD21:35
DJonesTr21:38
DJonesAlong those lines, Transformer Prime21:38
dogmatic69compiz is being a cpu hog. 45% atm21:46
bigcalmIs there a small computer that will plug into an HDMI port on my TV so that I can run things like spotify and youtube?21:47
dogmatic69raspberry pi?21:47
dogmatic69or apple tv21:47
bigcalmThinking something like http://www.droold.com/i/252 (popey posted to g+ recently)21:48
ali1234bigcalm: chromebox21:48
ali1234no, that thing wil not run spotify21:49
bigcalmIf it's android, why not?21:49
ali1234ok, premium i guess21:51
bigcalmWhich I have for that very reason21:53
bigcalmThe Chromebox looks very nice21:53
bigcalm£278.93 from Amazon21:55
bigcalmHummz21:55
ali1234well yeah, it's a real computer21:55
ali1234the equiso is just a phone without a screen and keypad and a worse cpu21:57
bigcalmAt that price I don't care22:08
dogmatic69I got something that is half installed / half broken in apt-get. How can I force remove it?22:32
penguin42dogmatic69: What happens when you do something like a dpkg --purge packagename22:33
dogmatic69penguin42: it moans. What I done is accidentally tried to install something in the wrong terminal window. was meant to be on a server and installed on my desktop :/22:35
dogmatic69ERROR: This server is NOT supported!22:35
dogmatic69^ that is for the dpkg command22:35
penguin42how did it end up partially installed?22:36
dogmatic69idk how it done that, should have aborted or something. Why they do a check when removing and not installing is beyond me22:36
n1md4Hello.  Does anyone have a tried and tested guide to migrating software raid1 with ubuntu, grub2, and mdadm (1.2 super)?22:37
dogmatic69penguin42: apt-get upgrade -> http://pastebin.com/MBhSsujC22:38
dogmatic69n1md4: migrating? to what22:38
n1md4I've confidence with mdadm, use it all the time, but the combination of all 3 have left my system unbootable in the past.22:38
penguin42n1md4: What do you mean migrating?22:38
n1md4dogmatic69: from single drive, flat partion, to md22:38
n1md4I've 2 drives installed.22:39
dogmatic69back up files, format and reinstall with the raid?22:39
penguin42dogmatic69: Ah OK so you need to stop the pre-removal scripts from getting run22:39
n1md4dogmatic69: tried that, but the installer seems a bit dumb22:39
dogmatic69n1md4: I think for software raid you select the debian installer. apparently that has "advanced" options?22:40
n1md4Debian installer is good for sw raid, as is the alternative ubuntu afair ....  ah.22:40
n1md4I'm installing mythbuntu, which might not help, where is the 'debian installer' option?22:41
penguin42dogmatic69: So, the simplest thing to try is to try forcably installing the package again and then removing it22:41
penguin42dogmatic69: Have you still got the .deb or is it still in your /var/cache/apt22:41
dogmatic69penguin42: I added it to source list afaik22:41
penguin42dogmatic69: OK, hack it - edit /etc/init.d/hp-health and on the line after the #! just put exit 0  and try and remove it22:42
dogmatic69\o/22:44
dogmatic69penguin42: ^522:44
Azelphurdoes anyone know if ebuyer is ok with microsoft tax refunds?22:53
dwatkinsAzelphur: okay with them? I thought you got that money back from Microsoft.22:53
Azelphurno you have to go to the installer22:54
Azelphuroh hey, looks like theopensourcer has had dealings22:57
* Azelphur reads his blog post22:57
penguin42Azelphur: When those chips say 40GH/s - what size data are they hashing?23:01
Azelphurno idea23:02
Azelphurout of the depths of my knowledge :)23:02
* penguin42 was just wondering how much less secure it makes sha256 - or how many of those chips you need to have a fair crack at a collision23:03
* Azelphur shrugs23:06
bigcalmAnybody here been bitten by a friendly dog?23:08
penguin42doesn't sound very friendly if it bit you23:09
bigcalmLike any animal, do something it doesn't like and it'll let you know23:09
bigcalmI'm a cat person, so don't know what these things are with dogs23:09
* penguin42 is a -stay away from them- person23:10
penguin42although I do talk to other peoples cats23:11
Azelphurhttp://www.kikatek.com/P198933/NWN6UUK-Lenovo-ThinkPad-X121e-11-6-inch?source=froogle kinda tempted to get this, thoughts?23:11
Azelphur(for running Ubuntu on)23:11
* bigcalm now imagines aquarius chasing laser dots around the floor23:13
bigcalmWhich will make no sense to people who do not follow myself and aquarius on twitter :)23:14
* Azelphur puts a potato ship on bigcalms head23:15
bigcalmo.O23:18
Azelphurbigcalm: http://payload.cargocollective.com/1/0/19407/1460555/potato%20ship!.jpg enjoy.23:18
bigcalmAzelphur: I'm still at the WTF stage :)23:19
Azelphuryour never supposed to leave the WTF stage23:19
Azelphurthat's the whole point.23:19
bigcalm:D23:19
Azelphurhttp://pichars.org/store/3049_original_1302533887080.png here's a picture of a giant duck in a river.23:20
penguin42Azelphur: Why does that make any less sense than thousands of small ducks?23:20
* Azelphur shrugs23:21
dogmatic69Azelphur: do you really want windows? that is like +100 bucks on the price of the laptop23:22
dwatkinsAzelphur: I assume it's all compatible with Ubuntu23:23
dogmatic69s/laptop/netbook23:23
penguin42dogmatic69: Except it isn't, in the sense you can't get a cheaper one without it23:23
Azelphurdogmatic69: no, I specifically don't want windows23:23
dogmatic69I guess you could flog it on ebay or somthing23:23
ali1234penguin42: re sha256, assuming yu are talking about bitcoin mining, 40GH doesn't mean sha256 hashes23:24
penguin42ali1234: Please explain23:24
Azelphurdogmatic69: feel free to suggest alternatives, also brb gotta get food outta the oven :P23:24
ali1234bitcoin uses sha256 but the hash functions is actually sha256(sha256(data))23:25
* dogmatic69 <3's his iPad23:25
dogmatic69ali1234: hashing a hash makes collisions more often afaik.23:25
ali1234it doesn't actually23:26
ali1234it doesn't do anything except make it slower23:26
dogmatic69I remember something like that from the days of md5's.23:26
hamitronali1234: surely that just means the device does 80GH for basic sha256?23:27
ali1234penguin42: the input data is 80 bytes long23:27
ali1234hamitron pretty much yes23:27
dogmatic69anyone seen "litecoin"?23:28
hamitrontoo much coin :/23:28
ali1234i will take your unwanted coins23:29
hamitronsorry, sold them23:29
hamitron;)23:29
ali1234all types23:29
ali1234except bbqcoin23:29
hamitronrate I seem to spend money these days, think I need everything I can get23:29
hamitronso sorry23:29
hamitron:)23:29
ali1234at 40GH i assume you are talking about some ASIC though... it's anyone's guess if it can do plain sha256 or if it's optimized only to bitcoin mining23:34
penguin42ali1234: Yeh one Azelphur has pre-ordered23:34
hamitronali1234: it can't23:34
Azelphur323:34
ali1234... or if it even exists23:35
hamitronit has 2 processors in series23:35
ali1234wat23:35
hamitronwell, the fpga version does23:35
ali1234the fpga version came in well under the rated spec though :)23:35
hamitronyeh23:35
hamitrontbh, I have my doubts about these asic23:36
penguin42at 40GH/s I'd think you'd have problems driving it over PCI/with whatever else oyu need to keep it busy23:36
ali1234penguin42: not at all, you only need send the data to be hashed once, and it's 80 bytes23:36
penguin42ali1234: But then what do you get back?23:37
ali1234well actually23:37
ali1234you send 76 bytes of data23:37
ali1234and you get back the winning hash (256 bits) and the 4 byte nonce that created it23:37
penguin42but doesn't that mean you get 40G hashes back - or is it a case of it just finding the 'winning' one more quickly ; what's the criterion for winning?23:38
ali1234you hash(header+nonce)23:38
ali1234the goal is to find nonce that returns a hash wth some number of leading zeros defined by the difficulty23:38
ali1234so you send data, and the hardware increments nonce until it finds a winning hash23:39
ali1234then returns hash and nonce23:39
penguin42huh ok23:39
ali1234so bandwidth usage is really really small23:39
ali1234if you wanted to generic sha cracking, you would send just the desired hash and let the hardware run until it finds it23:39
ali1234then it would return the winning input23:40
penguin42what length of leading 0's are they typically looking for?23:40
ali1234it depends on difficulty23:40
ali1234most recent block hash: 00000000000005869cb5ab255ea80441b2c67b00b49d2ce3abb6a6a252c8f91c23:41
ali1234difficulty: 2036671.08869323:41
ali1234more zeros = harder to find the winner23:41
hamitronI wonder if a lot will lose interest in bitcoin when asic arrives23:41
hamitrondays of "free" money will be over, unless you invest in dedicated rigs23:42
ali1234even with 16 TH (size of bitcoin network), finding a full preimage on a single sha256 would take billions of years23:42
penguin42ali1234: hmm, then that's kind of interesting - that 2nd sha256 is more interesting because it means you're looking for a rather unusual result23:42
ali1234why?23:43
penguin42I just wonder if you can optimise for that type of case23:43
hamitronpenguin42: you thinking shortcuts?23:43
hamitron;D23:43
ali1234hashing twice doesn't change anything really23:43
penguin42yeh, but I don't know it well enough - but I suspect that's really why they use 2 levels of hash, and I suspect it only helps in the last round of the hash23:43
ali1234if you find a shortcut it would apply to hashing once as well23:44
ali1234they hash twice just to make it slower23:44
ali1234t doesn't add any security at all23:44
ali1234actually there was a thread about this23:44
penguin42ali1234: Wouldn't adding a 2nd hash just half the speed - and if that's all it's doing it's not much of a gain; I mean that's wiped out by the difference in GPUs and nuked by the ASIC23:45
ali1234yes23:45
ali1234some newer coins use different hashing funcs23:45
ali1234http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/779/hashing-or-encrypting-twice-to-increase-security23:46
hamitronI think one of the main guys (if not the main guy) has said about bitcoin changing on the forum23:46
ali1234it may provide some security according to that23:46
ali1234against certain types of attack23:46
penguin42hamitron: Which might be an arse for those who bought ASICs....23:46
hamitronyeh, that is why I was researching it23:46
hamitronbecause I'm still using gpu23:47
dogmatic696k H/s23:48
dogmatic69:/23:48
hamitronnot in the near future though23:48
hamitrondogmatic69: what is doing that?23:48
dogmatic69hamitron: I am checking out "litecoin"23:48
hamitronah, k23:49
dogmatic69balance: 0.00 :/23:49
dogmatic69my pc is an intel q6600 3.4ghz 8gig ram 1gig nvidia 9800GT23:50
dogmatic69all cores at 100% :D23:50
hamitrondoes litecoin support gpu?23:50
ali1234yes23:50
dogmatic69its algo is meant to be non gpu friendly or something23:50
hamitronso why would anyone use a cpu?23:51
hamitronah23:51
ali1234litecoin gpu is only about 3-4x more efficient than cpu23:51
ali1234btc gpu is about 50-100x more efficient23:51
dogmatic69ye, its not the huge diff bitcoin has. That is why I tried this as I have loads of CPU power, not GPU's23:51
hamitronhmmm23:52
hamitronmaybe I should set my cpu on litecoin, while using gpu for bitcoin23:52
hamitron;)23:52
dogmatic69I got around 8 - 10 half decent cpus23:52
hamitronand cook23:52
dogmatic69hehe23:52
ali1234everyne got the bitcoin fever again23:52
ali1234is this cos they went ove $10 again?23:52
* hamitron never stopped tbh23:53
hamitronwell, I took a month out for fear of my health during a heat wave23:53
ali1234i just have 1x 5870 running all the time23:53
ali1234i'm not investing loads of money in hardware that will go obsolete23:53
hamitronthe high price does encourage me to not give in to the heat23:53
hamitronwell, I used it as an excuse to get crossfire23:54
hamitron;)23:54
ali1234crossfire does not help23:54
dogmatic69hamitron: damn, that heat wave almost wiped my pc's out23:54
hamitrondoes not help?23:54
ali1234no.23:54
hamitronI got 720MH on my 5870's23:55
dogmatic69my desk top cpu was pushing 70'C. Felt like I was sitting next to the radiator23:55
ali1234i got 450MH on a single 587023:55
hamitroncould get better with dedicated single I know23:55
hamitronali1234: you tweaked clocks?23:55
ali1234somewhat23:55
hamitronmine are stock23:55
ali1234it's very important to set memory clock to 1/4 of gpu clock23:56
hamitron6770's are stock too23:56
ali1234or is it 1/323:56
ali1234...it's 1/323:56
ali1234that's only on 5870 though23:56
ali1234that trick doesn't work on others23:56
hamitronbah23:57
hamitronthey've paid for themselves23:57
hamitronso don't owe me anything23:57
hamitronstill tempted to get a fpga23:58
hamitronone that can mine most of the time, then to play with when I feel like it23:58

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