[12:44] <pedro_> hi
[12:51] <mapreri> hi pedro_ :)
[13:04] <pedro_> hello roadmr  :-)
[13:04] <roadmr> pedro_: hey! how's it going?
[13:06] <pedro_> roadmr: good and yourself?
[13:06] <roadmr> pedro_: pretty good, thanks :)
[13:56] <smartboyhw> Hi, I want to join the Bug Triage Team, any help?
[13:57] <smartboyhw> Please, anyone here?
[13:59] <smartboyhw> God sake, anyone here to help me?
[14:02] <Pici> Patience...
[14:03] <smartboyhw> OK, that's weird, so many people in here...
[14:04] <smartboyhw> Anyone can approve my "Ubuntu BugSquad" application in Launchpad?
[14:26] <smartboyhw> #1033516 confirmed...
[14:27] <LoT> smartboyhw: your bugsquad application will take a while :P
[14:27] <LoT> i.e. nobody checks often
[14:27]  * LoT will poke someone though
[14:27] <LoT> ... eventually
[14:27] <LoT> sometime after i've had my fifth cup of coffee :P
[14:27] <LoT> ... or the sixth... :P
[14:27] <smartboyhw> ...
[14:28] <LoT> (i got no sleep last night, caffeine and coffee is the fuel of the ages.  :P)
[14:28] <smartboyhw> Ha, let's talk back in #ubuntuforums before the guys start to kill us
[14:30] <LoT> :P
[14:30] <LoT> actually i'm waiting for hggdh to randomly appear :P
[14:31] <LoT> there's a topic i've been trying to rectify regarding bug documentation, and hggdh is one of the major players in that discussion :P
[14:31] <LoT> smartboyhw: also, if you confirm a bug, you can comment that it affects you, and set it to Confirmed.
[14:31] <smartboyhw> I did.
[14:31] <LoT> last i checked, bugcontrol doesnt need to set that
[14:31] <LoT> :)
[14:31] <LoT> ... unless launchpad itself has a regression in its code :P
[14:32] <smartboyhw> Look at Bug #1033516.
[14:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1033516 in glib-networking "libsoup fails to validate certain Verisign certificates" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033516
[14:32]  * hggdh randomly pops in
[14:32] <LoT> its hggdh!
[14:32] <hggdh> :-)
[14:32] <LoT> hggdh: did you check your emails where you get bugsquad stuffs?
[14:32] <smartboyhw> :-)
[14:33]  * hggdh goes look
[14:33] <smartboyhw> I do the Quantal bug checks.
[14:33] <LoT> regarding that whole core vs. noncore thing
[14:33] <smartboyhw> I like new releases.
[14:33] <LoT> apparently, when you're me, and you nag people into oblivion on an email chain, things get done...?
[14:33] <LoT> not entirely sure how that's even valid logic, but...
[14:34] <LoT> hggdh: also, there's more applicants to bugsquad :P
[14:34] <hggdh> ah, the core vs. non-core.
[14:34] <hggdh> ah blast
[14:34]  * hggdh goes look at applicaitons
[14:34] <smartboyhw> hggdh, I applied
[14:35] <hggdh> smartboyhw: checking on them now
[14:35] <smartboyhw> When's the next Bug Squad meeting/
[14:35] <LoT> hggdh: yes, the core vs. noncore
[14:35] <LoT> smartboyhw: whenever we organize one
[14:35] <LoT> apparently we dont meet very often... :P
[14:35] <LoT> next thing i see is that hug day
[14:35] <smartboyhw> Wow, that's random
[14:36] <LoT> unless my system is once again not showing things right
[14:36]  * LoT goes and beats Windows into submission
[14:36] <LoT> ... anyways...
[14:36] <hggdh> smartboyhw: welcome in :-)
[14:37] <smartboyhw> THanks.
[14:37] <hggdh> LoT: the Debian priority is not related to how important a package is to the users (like empathy), but how important it is to the system
[14:37] <smartboyhw> THat's weird for the meetings. We QA guys meet every week.
[14:37] <LoT> hggdh: indeed.  unfortunately, i cant respond to things atm :P
[14:37]  * LoT is working
[14:38] <LoT> EVIL SERVERS!  STOP DYING! </annoyed>
[14:38] <hggdh> LoT: don't worry, just posting ramdomly ;-)
[14:38] <smartboyhw> You guys better host another meeting.
[14:38] <LoT> you should subscribe to the mailing list
[14:38] <LoT> :P
[14:38] <hggdh> LoT: so, if a package is prio=required, and you remove it, you can expect your system to misbehave
[14:38] <LoT> hggdh: indeed.
[14:39] <smartboyhw> I did subscribe.
[14:39] <LoT> hggdh: i wasnt certain, i still agree with Brian on this, though, go see my blog, you'll see my opinions are in agreement http://lordoftime.info/?p=19
[14:40] <hggdh> the tasks check comes from a different perspective: if it is set in a task (selector) option, it is probably considered important enough
[14:40] <LoT> indeed.
[14:41] <hggdh> another nice check is it has to be in main -- an universe package is certainly non-core
[14:42] <LoT> indeed.
[14:42] <LoT> hggdh: i'd like for you to put that on the mailing list :P
[14:42] <LoT> all your opinions here are valid
[14:42] <LoT> and not all of bugsquad uses IRC actively
[14:42]  * hggdh grumbles
[14:42] <LoT> (I know I do, but...)
[14:42] <hggdh> ah, OK, I will do it :-)
[14:42] <LoT> that, and putty + irssi == evil
[14:42]  * hggdh suggests weechat
[14:43] <LoT> you know what, screw linked in
[14:43] <LoT> they spam me like insanity
[14:43] <smartboyhw> Waiting for new bugs to triage.
[14:43] <LoT> smartboyhw: sometimes you just need to wait
[14:43] <LoT> but triaging isnt the only thing bugsquad does
[14:43] <LoT> ;P
[14:43] <LoT> we also try to put bugs against the actual packages
[14:43] <hggdh> smartboyhw: heh, you do not need to wait, just search for New/Incomplete bugs, you will get your hands full
[14:44] <smartboyhw> I don't like reporting
[14:44] <LoT> would you believe there's TONS of bugs qhich get filed against Ubuntu but not packages specifically?
[14:44] <smartboyhw> yeah, I only like Quantal bugs.
[14:44] <LoT> half my job is repointing those.
[14:44] <hggdh> smartboyhw: there is also #ubuntu-bugs-announce monitoring newly arrived bugs
[14:44] <smartboyhw> i
[14:44] <smartboyhw> am there.
[14:44] <LoT> a quarter of my job is to gripe to upstream about broken things.
[14:44] <LoT> and the rest is focused on nginx, display-dhammapada, and stackapplet.
[14:44] <smartboyhw> Hey, LoT, don't talk about your job.
[14:44] <hggdh> indeed you are...
[14:45] <LoT> smartboyhw: that's my bugsquad duties.
[14:45] <LoT> my real job is ITSecurity
[14:45] <smartboyhw> ...
[14:45] <LoT> so don't go around hacking.  i'll know about it.  >:)
[14:45] <smartboyhw> Yeah, I do testing and QA mainly. Bugsquad will only be side job.
[14:45]  * LoT notices there's six reports for analysis, goes to do that.
[14:45] <smartboyhw> Anyway, what happened to the Beginners team? They sound dead.
[14:45] <LoT> that'd be... bodhi's team, right?
[14:46] <smartboyhw> Yep, it's dead.
[14:46] <LoT> i suggest you ask him.
[14:46]  * LoT points everyone to #ubuntu :P
[14:46] <smartboyhw> Anyone know if he's online?
[14:46] <LoT> he'll be online later, he is in #ubuntuforums usually
[14:46] <LoT> even though he stepped down from the forums council and forums staff
[14:47] <smartboyhw> Don't see him there.
[14:47] <LoT> hggdh: does nobody read my posts?
[14:47] <LoT> i think i said "he'll be online later", didnt i?
[14:47] <LoT> bah, whatever
[14:47]  * LoT returns to the reports
[14:47] <hggdh> LoT: I do not know about others; I read it
[14:47] <smartboyhw> ...
[14:48] <LoT> hggdh: indeed.  +20 to you.
[14:48] <hggdh> and I am not thinking out an answer (to bugsquad ;-)
[14:48] <LoT> lol
[14:48] <smartboyhw> I spend 1 hour and 15 minutes signing the Code of Counduct.
[14:48] <hggdh> s/am not/am/
[14:48] <smartboyhw> YOu guys should simplify the process.
[14:48] <hggdh> smartboyhw: what process?
[14:49] <smartboyhw> The signing process for Code of Conduct.
[14:51] <LoT> why woulod you spend an hour.
[14:51] <smartboyhw> hggdh: Why is the #1 bug still in progress? I thought it should be deleted. Don't worry about Windows. Worry about Mac OS X.
[14:52] <smartboyhw> LoT: I have to get the PGP keys to keyserver.
[14:52] <LoT> smartboyhw: that only takes about 15 minutes?
[14:52] <LoT> if you upload to the main keyserver, it'll work
[14:52] <LoT> and it'll take < 15 minutes
[14:52] <LoT> heck, under 5 mins if you're lucky
[14:52] <hggdh> smartboyhw: mostly because it is historical (and comments are now blocked there)
[14:52] <smartboyhw> I waited for an hour. It says uploading to main server takes /60 minutes.
[14:53] <LoT> smartboyhw: it doesnt :P
[14:53] <LoT> unless you're on a satellite connection
[14:53] <LoT> :P
[14:54] <hggdh> well, it has been a long time I have not uploaded new SSH keys, but it was a fast (or not slow) process
[14:55] <LoT> heh
[14:55] <LoT> hggdh: i included your ideas in an email response.
[14:56] <hggdh> LoT: so I do not have to type them?
[14:56]  * hggdh is quite slow today
[14:56] <LoT> no, but check the response.
[14:56] <LoT> :P
[14:56] <hggdh> heh
[14:56] <LoT> hggdh: i'm on my fifth cup of coffee.  I AM FREAKING WIRED!!!!!!!!
[14:57] <hggdh> I only drink decaf, on the dumb hope that I will not get even more insomnia
[14:57] <LoT> heh
[14:57] <LoT> well i got no sleep yesterday
[14:58] <LoT> so the intake of massive quantities of caffeine to stay awake and energized is not uncommon with me on those days.
[14:59] <hggdh> there is also the additional strain on the cardiac muscles, and hypertension ...
[14:59] <smartboyhw> New bug on Chrome.
[15:00] <LoT> hggdh: hggdh actually, i have naturally-low blood pressure and pulse.  i'm required to have at least two coffees a day to keep that in the normal range.
[15:00] <LoT> either that, or i have to take stimulant pills
[15:00] <LoT> i'd rather have the coffee :P
[15:01] <hggdh> lucky bastard...
[15:01] <LoT> :P
[15:01] <LoT> actually, that's partially due to my first year at University
[15:01] <LoT> my body just adapted to having 4-coffees-a-day in the bloodstream
[15:02] <LoT> so now i actually *require* at least 2 a day
[15:02] <LoT> to stay in the normal range
[15:02] <hggdh> heh
[15:02] <smartboyhw> ...
[15:02] <hggdh> LoT: yes, godd summary
[15:02] <hggdh> (on the ML)
[15:03] <LoT> indeed.
[15:03] <LoT> and of course, my opinions are able to be voiced on my blog, as long as I quote sources and what not.  last i checked the bugsquad ML is publicly archived, yes?
[15:05] <smartboyhw> hggdh: How many bugs do you need to triage/report to get to the next level of team membership in Bugsquad?
[15:06] <LoT> smartboyhw: there is no "next level" of membership
[15:06] <LoT> if you mean bugcontrol, read their wiki page
[15:06] <LoT> BugControl's not necessarily part of Bug Squad, but is related
[15:07] <smartboyhw> Er, why can't I set importance?
[15:08] <LoT> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl  <--
[15:08] <LoT> importance is bugcontorl only
[15:08] <LoT> which bug, and what importance do you think it is?
[15:08] <LoT> and why.
[15:08] <LoT> :P
[15:08] <smartboyhw> OK
[15:08] <LoT> .Setting the importance of bugs reports. (Bug Control members Only)
[15:08] <LoT> (from the bugsquad wiki)
[15:09] <smartboyhw> Wow, that means I have to wait tilll I triaged 5 bugs.
[15:10] <LoT> no
[15:10] <LoT> it means that you can have someone in bugcontrol set the importance
[15:10] <smartboyhw> Oh, that's why.
[15:11] <LoT> i got bugcontrol for working on nginx packages, and upstreaming them.  i very rarely use that power, but when i do its typically only to set something as a wishlist bug...
[15:11] <LoT> or to triage an nginx package.
[15:11] <LoT> s/package/bug/
[15:11] <LoT> that, and sometimes to set importance on other bugs
[15:11] <LoT> so as i said
[15:11] <LoT> which bug, what importance, and why?
[15:11] <LoT> smartboyhw: read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
[15:11] <LoT> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
[15:12] <LoT> and all the other bug squad docs.
[15:12] <LoT> also note there are some special workflow bugs
[15:12] <LoT> and we dont touch those
[15:12] <smartboyhw> OK.
[15:12] <LoT> and again, if you'd like to have an importance set, please let this channel know of the bug number, the importance you want, and your reasoning
[15:13] <LoT> then someone on bugcontrol will decide if that's valid
[15:13] <LoT> and if it is, will set it
[15:13] <LoT> probably hggdh since i'm analyzing a packet trace log.
[15:14] <LoT> which is filled with crap :/
[15:14] <smartboyhw> Bug #1033532, High due to Chrome is a very popular browser and loading webpages is a big thing.
[15:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1033532 in chromium-browser "Won't load pages. Sits "waiting for example.com"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033532
[15:14] <LoT> smartboyhw: use the Importance page i linked to you
[15:14] <LoT> and then rethink your reasoning
[15:14] <LoT> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance is the absolute guide to how we handle importance, except in special packages
[15:14] <LoT> which chromium is not
[15:15] <smartboyhw> Still high.
[15:15] <smartboyhw> Chromium is a core one, I think.
[15:15] <LoT> and did you actually test and confirm this?
[15:15] <smartboyhw> Yep.
[15:15]  * LoT uses Brian's methodology of checking for core
[15:15] <smartboyhw> I change it to confirm.
[15:15] <LoT> can you comment that you checked it and confirmed?
[15:15] <LoT> rather than just change it to confirmed?
[15:16] <LoT> we like to see comments saying yuo checked and confrimed it
[15:16] <smartboyhw> Yes, why are you bothering me with that!?!?!?
[15:16] <LoT> and what steps you did to reporoduce if any
[15:16]  * LoT has that right to bug you about it
[15:16] <smartboyhw> Bug me?
[15:16]  * LoT yawns
[15:16] <LoT> damn you putty work faster!
[15:16] <smartboyhw> I need to go. Bye!
[15:17] <LoT> hggdh: we're assuming that if its part of an official derivative's task that its core, right?
[15:17] <LoT> at least with Brian's logic.
[15:18] <LoT> hggdh: also, /query when you're not busy
[15:19] <LoT> jbicha: greetings.  :)
[15:24]  * LoT yawns/w 7
[15:24] <LoT> whoops
[15:33] <hggdh> LoT: it is core for this specific derivative
[15:42] <LoT> hggdh: cool, so it'd be a "High" bug i take it.
[15:42]  * LoT is back after having to consult with someone on a report.
[16:03] <pedro_> does anybody knows who is looking after rt@ubuntu.com ?
[16:03] <LoT> probably one of the admins
[16:03] <LoT> why
[16:03] <LoT> it probably goes to the ticketing systme
[16:04] <pedro_> right, i know that
[16:04] <LoT> (that looks like a ticketing-based email)
[16:04] <LoT> again, why do you ask, pedro_?
[16:04] <pedro_> I'd like to know if i can contact one of those admins trough IRC
[16:05] <LoT> not sure you can, lemme ask someone whi might know
[16:05]  * LoT grabs the Stick of Poking and goes to poke his contacts
[16:09] <pedro_> jpds_: do you know anything about that ? ^
[16:09] <LoT> pedro_: i just poked my contact who is a Canonical admin, perhaps they'd know.  they're out at lunch, and i'm heading for lunch shortly :P
[16:09] <pedro_> lunch? who needs that.
[16:15] <Pici> pedro_: #canonical-sysadmin is where they live.
[16:16] <LoT> pedro_: someone who hasnt eaten breakfast needs lunch
[16:16] <pedro_> thanks Pici
[16:16]  * LoT has only had coffee for breakfast today
[16:16] <pedro_> :-P
[16:16] <LoT> and a LOT of coffee, thereof.
[16:16] <pedro_> 45 minutes to lunch here :-)
[16:16]  * pedro_ starving
[16:16] <hggdh> food is overrated
[16:17] <pedro_> hahaha
[16:21]  * LoT installs MustEatFood mod onto hggdh, then restricts hggdh to taking in only water.
[16:22] <LoT> anyways, hggdh i think the bugsquad docs should hold a new page off of Bugs which defines Core and non-core, depending on the response from a couple of others, I strongly believe that Brian's method should be adopted to determine if something's in core.  Opinions?
[16:23] <LoT> wow... runon sentence :/
[16:23]  * LoT should fix that
[16:25] <hggdh> LoT: we can. But the definition of core/non-core actually does not belong to bugsquad, I think. The bugsquad just inherits it
[16:26] <LoT> hggdh: it doesnt appear to be defined elsewhere, where's it defined on the wiki, then?
[16:27] <hggdh> hehe, I di dnot state it was defined elsewhere. But, IMHO, it should be on one of the devel pages (and may be, BTW)
[16:29] <LoT> afaik, its only used in the Importance docs
[16:29] <LoT> back during UDS, micah agreed that it needs defining, as have you.
[16:30] <LoT> hggdh: would #ubuntu-devel know the difference, or how to determine?
[16:30] <hggdh> most certainly
[16:32] <LoT> hggdh: i'm in there now, feel free to elaborate, though on my question if you wish.
[16:32] <LoT> i'm about ready to head out to lunch.
[16:33] <LoT> micahg: any idea whre "core" and "non-core" came from?
[16:33] <micahg> nope, that might help clarify
[16:33] <LoT> you and i spoke about it briefly during UDS (on IRC) and we weren't even sure where that came from.
[16:33] <LoT> not sure if you've been following the email chain recently, i dug it up
[16:34] <LoT> Brian suggested if its got a task for one of the official derivatives assigned to that package it could be considered Core, both hggdh and I agreed with that
[16:34] <LoT> but we're not sure where that determination actually *came* from, so...
[16:34] <micahg> hrm, maybe that's not true...http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/quantal/core
[16:35] <LoT> hmm... maybe we should ask stgraber on this one?
[16:35] <micahg> core is the set of packages that affects multiple package sets AIUI
[16:35] <LoT> hmm
[16:35]  * micahg looks for a better definition
[16:36] <LoT> but its really been a hinge-point for defining the differences between, say, low or medium, for example.
[16:37] <LoT> this is really the only bugs-related thing i've found that actually uses "core" or "non-core":  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
[16:37] <LoT> and that's an important document
[16:44] <LoT> micahg: based on cjwatson's response in -devel, how do we want to determine this?  Brian suggested a pretty goodl solution, use the tasks for a package as the defining point for core or non-core.  He sent that idea out earlier in July, on the 12th, on the email chain.
[16:44] <LoT> and if he didn't CC the ML, i did.
[16:45] <micahg> LoT: so, you'll need someone with history like bdmurray for that, but I think the new definition works fine
[16:45] <LoT> micahg: "Brian" is bdmurray :P
[16:46] <micahg> sorry, was referring to your history statement
[16:46] <LoT> at least in this context.
[16:46] <LoT> indeed.
[16:47] <LoT> i think i'll discuss this again with him, have him make the final determination, but this definition is something that we pretty much unanimously agree needs defining.
[17:32] <LoT> how is this a firefox bug?  its a network-manager one, according to their description.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1033579
[17:32] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1033579 in firefox "network manager doesnt auto connect to mobile broadband" [Undecided,New]
[17:33]  * LoT is about to invalid that, and point it against network-manager
[21:36] <jhansonxi> I've been finding dupes with a particular NM bug.  I posted them to bug #1011073 but the OR says that bug doesn't match up.  A dev with NM expertise should take a look: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1011073/comments/15
[21:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1011073 in network-manager "NetworkManager submenus sometimes unpopulated" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1011073
[21:36] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1011073 in network-manager "NetworkManager submenus sometimes unpopulated" [Medium,Incomplete]