[01:11] <Starlight_> Can someone please tell me what VNC viewer application to use to connect to the new Ubuntu from Win7 (the Ubuntu Desktop has 3d drivers)??
[01:12] <Starlight_> I'm using I'm using RealVNC, and the picture is not refreshed.. It's just a static..
[01:13] <Starlight_> Why did I type that twice..  lol  :-P
[01:28] <cyphermox> Starlight_: any VNC application should work. If the image doesn't refresh, it might be a different issue, either Unity is crashed if it's unity (used to be issues with loading it under VNC), or there are network issues -- try enabling compression, or disabling it, or reducing color quality.
[01:29] <cyphermox> Starlight_: however, you'll have more luck asking for such things on #ubuntu; there people can help you and might know the Win7 apps for VNC better
[01:29] <Starlight_> It used to work on my older version of Ubuntu that didn't have a 3d driver..
[01:29] <Starlight_> I get more of a reply here then I do there..
[01:29] <Starlight_> No-one responds..
[01:39] <Starlight_> I think I found out..
[01:39] <Starlight_> If you connect to a VNC server, can see the initial desktop, can see the mouse moving around, but the rest of the screen doesn't update, then you probably need to disable desktop effects on the shared desktop
[06:19] <didrocks> good morning
[06:21] <s9iper1> good morning :!!
[07:23] <Sweetshark> moin all!
[07:24] <Sweetshark> seb128: is there anything special about feature freeze in universe?
[07:24] <seb128> hey Sweetshark ... nothing special that I know about, why?
[07:27] <seiflotfy> alecu: ping
[07:27] <seiflotfy> alecu: ŝorry i lost internet yesterda<y
[07:30] <didrocks> hey seb128 ;)
[07:30] <seb128> lut didrocks
[07:32] <seb128> Laney, howdy
[07:32] <seb128> (doing nautilus update)
[07:35] <BigWhale> Greetings all.
[07:35] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks thumper you both seem to be online...you guys connect yet on the gsettings stuff?
[07:36] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: I pinged him approx 2 hours ago, he seems away
[07:36] <jasoncwarner_> thanks didrocks
[07:36] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: don't worry, I'll keep harassing him :)
[07:39] <didrocks> doh, evince already done :)
[07:39] <didrocks> ok, back to my doc then! :)
[07:42] <seb128> didrocks, don't shy away, there are plenty of other updates :p
[07:43] <didrocks> seb128: well, I wanted to help on the main ones first, but I've enough to get me busy between the doc and talking to sam about g-c-c and compiz :)
[07:43] <seb128> didrocks, ok, good luck with those ;-)
[07:43] <didrocks> the usage of relocatable paths makes it an interesting question :)
[07:43] <didrocks> thanks!
[07:59] <Laney> hey seb128
[08:01] <thumper> didrocks: hey, I'm back
[08:01] <thumper> didrocks: I have some calls, but I'll fit you in before I'm done
[08:02] <didrocks> thumper: ok, keep me posted
[08:03] <seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
[08:03] <seb128> Laney, can we sync glib from Debian?
[08:03] <Laney> good thanks
[08:03] <Laney> don't know... did it build everywhere?
[08:04] <Laney> looks like iti failed on ppc :(
[08:05] <seb128> Laney, do we care about ppc? it built on amd64 i386 armel armfh
[08:12] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:15] <Laney> seb128: you can sync if you want and I'll see if I can fix it for a -2
[08:15] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[08:15] <seb128> Laney, I will sync it to quantal-proposed I think
[08:15] <Laney> good idea
[08:17] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. how are you?
[08:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
[09:04] <mlankhorst> hmm
[09:04] <mlankhorst> I'm probably a bit late here
[09:04] <mlankhorst> but I'm getting a apt-get error on updating, apt-get -f install complains aboutno file name for libdb5.1
[09:07] <mlankhorst> oh might be system borked, manually installed from debian :)
[09:08] <topyli> sounds like a good way to break a system :)
[09:09] <mlankhorst> System already was, finally trying to recover it.
[09:27] <seb128> doing gvfs update
[10:02] <seb128> Laney, hum, glib failed to build on amd64 in quantal-proposed
[10:02] <Laney> "great"
[10:03] <seb128> indeed :-(
[10:03] <Laney> GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus)
[10:03] <Laney> dbus errors: your favourite?
[10:03] <seb128> indeed!
[10:04] <seb128> Laney, it worked on i386 so I wonder if that's a test that randomly fail, let me do a retry
[11:36] <tkamppeter> mlankhorst, hi
[12:48] <mlankhorst> heya tkamppeter
[13:11] <tedg> Okay, so why does Evolution need GLX to be able to start :-/
[13:13] <ogra_> qunatal ?
[13:13] <ogra_> *quantal
[13:14] <ogra_> might be using clutter now
[13:15] <robru> lol, hardware accelerated 3d email. How did we ever live without it?
[13:15] <ogra_> hardware accelerated everything in gnome3 ...
[13:15] <robru> this is true
[13:16] <robru> but for some reason the concept of 3d email amuses me.
[13:16] <ogra_> (not that the arm developer in me agrees in any way with that move)
[13:17] <kenvandine> that seems very wrong...
[13:17] <kenvandine>   Depends: libclutter-gtk-1.0-0
[13:17] <ogra_> well, isnt everything linked against clutter in the new world order of gnome ?
[13:17] <ogra_> right
[13:17] <kenvandine> grrr
[13:17] <kenvandine> it's EMAIL!
[13:18] <kenvandine> annoying
[13:18] <ogra_> its the toolkit
[13:18] <robru> evo docs seem to indicate that the clutter support is optional.
[13:18] <ogra_> ...
[13:18]  * kenvandine wonders what feature uses clutter though
[13:18] <robru> Oh, it's because they're using libchamplain maps to show where contacts are located.
[13:18] <ogra_> well, given that many bits in the desktop will depend on it now (totem for example) you have it anyway
[13:19] <kenvandine> robru, no, libchamplain isn't in main
[13:21] <robru> kenvandine, you sure? I was just googling randomly and found some documentation indicating a switch to the configure script that disabled libchamplain contact maps
[13:21] <robru> meaning it's enabled by default, meaning it depends on clutter.
[13:22] <kenvandine> evo can't build in main with a build dep in universe
[13:22] <kenvandine> so it would have been built without libchamplain support
[13:23] <robru> why else would it depend on clutter then?
[13:24] <kenvandine> that is what i am wondering
[13:25] <seb128> because the calendar uses it
[13:25] <robru> to what end?
[13:25] <kenvandine> to be cool
[13:25] <kenvandine> :)
[13:26] <seb128> in fact they have animations in the email part using clutter as well
[13:26] <seb128> http://git.gnome.org/browse/evolution/commit/?id=f454ba71426c7dbe2089df6f0dde9de8e433f664
[13:27] <robru> ahhhh. I haven't actually used evo in quite a while.
[14:05] <tkamppeter> mlankhorst, ping
[14:07] <tkamppeter> mlankhorst, sorry, I was at lunch.
[14:09] <seb128> Laney, good news, glib built on amd64 on retry and it built on ppc
[14:09] <Laney> i saw!
[14:09] <Laney> waiting anxiously on armel
[14:10] <tkamppeter> mlankhorst, it is about bug 1029865. Comment #6 makes the impression to me that it is easy to fix. Will you fix it soon?
[14:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1029865 in linux "Intel HD graphics: Starts always with 1024x768 resolution on a 1920x1080 monitor (HDMI and DisplayPort)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029865
[14:10] <mlankhorst> tkamppeter: ill check
[14:11] <tkamppeter> mlankhorst, I have my PC back and so I could test.
[14:40] <seb128> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93477
[14:41] <ubot2> bugs.webkit.org bug 93477 in WebKit API "1.9.6 drops symbols, breaking compatibility" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[14:41] <seb128> I finally got webkit to build
[14:41] <seb128> to notice that it was breaking api,abi
[14:41] <seb128> \o/ or /o\
[14:41] <seb128> unsure
[14:43] <seb128> jbicha, ^ you were waiting on the webkit update, will wait a bit longer I think
[14:50] <mdeslaur> seb128: webkit is.....awesome...
[14:50] <seb128> mdeslaur, it is...
[14:51] <mdeslaur> of course, it _is_ an unstable release
[15:05] <mterry> Is anyone else's gnome-settings-daemon wigging out, causing indicator-datetime to wig out too?
[15:05]  * seb128 takes a dictionnary
[15:06] <seb128> mterry, like crazy behaviour? or cpu use?
[15:07] <mterry> cpu use
[15:07] <mterry> wig out isn't a phrase over there?  :)
[15:07] <seb128> mterry, is your numlock led flickering?
[15:07] <mterry> don't have one
[15:07] <seb128> mterry, no it's not :p
[15:08] <seb128> mterry, can you look if dconf spins cpu?
[15:08] <mterry> no, just those two (and deja-dup-monitor, but i killed that)
[15:09] <seb128> mterry, can you gsettings list-recursively > old
[15:09] <seb128> then again >  new
[15:09] <seb128> and diff them?
[15:09] <mterry> woah, I got lots of "** (process:3786): CRITICAL **: unable to create file '/home/mike/.cache/dconf/user': Input/output error.  dconf will not work properly."
[15:09] <mterry> that seems bad
[15:10] <mterry> will try deleting that
[15:10] <seb128> that's your user database
[15:10] <seb128> you would wipe all your configs
[15:10] <mterry> seb128, it's just the .cache, not the .config
[15:10] <seb128> desrt, ^ saw that before? corruption?
[15:10] <seb128> mterry, oh, right
[15:10] <desrt> cool.
[15:11] <desrt> what filesystem is that on
[15:11] <desrt> ?
[15:11] <desrt> Input/output error means that we're getting -EIO from the kernel
[15:11] <mterry> desrt, ext4 I believe
[15:11] <desrt> which can only really happen if the FS is corrupt or there is hardware troubles
[15:11] <mterry> :(
[15:11] <seb128> mterry, no ecryptfs?
[15:11] <mterry> seb128, ah ! right, I do use home ecryptfs
[15:12] <desrt> filesystem bug, then
[15:12] <desrt> this will be fixed when XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is properly supported
[15:12] <mterry> ah good, less worrying than hardware problem
[15:12] <desrt> we only do 'boring' IO against the file in the homedir
[15:13] <desrt> (and the ~/.cache/ file is not supposed to be in the homedir -- it only goes there as a fallback when XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is not set)
[15:13] <mterry> ah
[15:14] <desrt> seb128: what's the status of the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR business, anyway?
[15:15] <desrt> running dconf on 'strange filesystems' without that is only going to be getting worse....
[15:15] <seb128> desrt, I asked slangasek about it some weeks ago and he said it was on track for quantal
[15:15] <desrt> okay.  good.
[16:04] <seb128> doing the gnome-icon-theme-symbolic update
[16:29] <desrt> seb128: how's quantal these days if you don't own a dell laptop?
[16:29] <seb128> desrt, I told you I was on precise still :p
[16:29] <seb128> desrt, quantal has no known problem that I know about
[16:29] <desrt> don't you have a vm or something?
[16:29]  * desrt expects you, of all people, to be on top of this stuff :)
[16:29] <seb128> desrt, the comment was re: dell
[16:30] <desrt> a dell vm? :)
[16:30] <seb128> desrt, the dell issue is not quantal specific ;-)
[16:30] <seb128> desrt, want the big trout again? :p
[16:30] <seb128> desrt, quantal is working fine, you can update
[16:30] <desrt> yes please :)
[16:30] <seb128> desrt, no, no trout for you today
[16:30] <seb128> :-p
[16:31] <desrt> lame
[16:58] <robru> gah! what package am I missing to get the debugging symbols so that my apport bugs won't be closed as invalid?
[16:59] <seb128> robru, bug number?
[16:59] <robru> all of the bugs i have reported this week ;-)
[17:00] <robru> is there some kind of meta package for "ALL of the debugging symbols"?
[17:00] <robru> the latest is 1034495 since you asked though
[17:02] <seb128> robru, can you subscribe me to this one?
[17:02] <seb128> robru, there is no "all debug symbols" but sudo apport-retrace on a .crash will install the ones needed for the retracing
[17:03] <robru> subscribed you on this latest bug. I've been having a lot of randomish crashes with various packages.
[17:04] <seb128> robru, that one didn't get retraced yet, do you have one which failed retracing? so just I can have a look to why
[17:07] <robru> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glade/+bug/1032873
[17:07] <ubot2> robru: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0xa2d980c> bug 1032873 not found
[17:07] <robru> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnumeric/+bug/1033100
[17:07] <robru> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/1034052
[17:07] <ubot2> robru: Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033100)
[17:08] <robru> wow, I'm just breaking everything today ;-)
[17:08] <ubot2> robru: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0xa2d980c> bug 1034052 not found
[17:10] <robru> Apport usually reports that some package or other is not the latest version but I will typically do an update/dist-upgrade and it'll say I'm up to date. I'm not sure why apport is aware of new packages before apt-get can even get them.
[17:10] <seb128> robru, so different reason, 2 of those are the same overlay-scrollbar issue
[17:10] <seb128> we really need to get Cimi (upstream to look at that)
[17:10] <seb128> which lacks debug symbols for a reason
[17:11] <robru> what is the reason?
[17:11] <seb128> the gnome-panel one is because gtk in quantal was updated and our retracers are too stupid to install old versions
[17:11] <seb128> reason for what? the lack of debug symbols?
[17:12] <seb128> we had a out of space issue on the debug server recently and some dbg packages got lost it seems
[17:12] <seb128> we need to recreate them
[17:12] <robru> Is that something I can help with?
[17:12] <seb128> thanks for asking but no, only the IS guys have access to the server
[17:13] <robru> ah
[17:13] <robru> Been feeling kind of impotent the last few days, reporting crashes and then having them automatically marked as invalid. I just want to help! ;-)
[17:13] <seb128> robru, can you reproduce the overlay scrollbar segfault?
[17:14] <seb128> robru, having a debug stacktrace of that one would help
[17:14] <robru> how would I do that?
[17:14] <seb128> robru,
[17:14] <robru> I haven't really been able to reproduce it. it's quite random, haven't noticed any pattern to it yet
[17:14] <seb128> 1- build a debug version of overlay-scrollbars
[17:15] <seb128> - apt-get source overlay-scrollbar
[17:15] <seb128> - cd overlay-scrollbar-0.2.16*
[17:15] <seb128> - sudo apt-get build-dep overlay-scrollbar
[17:15] <seb128> - DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="nostrip" debuild
[17:15] <seb128> install the deb
[17:16] <seb128> 2- get the issue and report it, if you are lucky the bug will have the debug infos without retracing
[17:16] <seb128> if not you can try locally to
[17:16] <seb128> - sudo apport-retrace /var/crash/the.crash
[17:16] <desrt> unlock() callback() lock() anti-pattern makes baby jesus cry
[17:17] <seb128> or apport-unpack /var/crash/the.crash /tmp/something
[17:17] <seb128> then use gdb on the CoreDump in that dir
[17:17] <seb128>  
[17:17] <seb128> robru, ^ that's it basically
[17:17] <robru> k, on it. thanks
[17:18] <seb128> thank you!
[17:18] <robru> how could you tell that it was overlay-scrollbars causing it?
[17:18] <robru> ls
[17:18] <robru> lol
[17:19] <robru> it's been 10 years and I am *STILL* waiting for somebody to invent focus-follows-eyeballs
[17:20]  * desrt wound find that annoying
[17:20] <robru> desrt, you would be annoyed by your keyboard typing going into the window you are looking at?
[17:20] <desrt> ya
[17:20] <desrt> i'm often writing code or talking on irc without looking there
[17:20] <desrt> either at another window or a person in the room, for example
[17:21] <robru> no way. I was using focus-follows-mouse for a while but I've had to switch back to click focus due to the gnome shell app menu, and I am constantly forgetting to click where I want to type first.
[17:21] <desrt> didn't they add a workaround for that?
[17:21] <desrt> the appmenu gets displayed in the app as well if you're in focus-follows-mouse, iirc
[17:21] <robru> i dunno.
[17:21] <robru> not for me!
[17:21] <desrt> they were talking about it at least
[17:21] <desrt> in any case you can always enable it yourself
[17:22] <desrt> as of last cycle we have an override key for arbitrary xsettings
[17:22] <seb128> robru, did you use gdb before?
[17:22] <robru> I'm not sure. I kinda like the app menu being in a consistent place.
[17:22] <robru> seb128, only once. why?
[17:22] <desrt> cool.  then enjoy your click-to-focus :)
[17:22] <robru> desrt, I'm trying ;-)
[17:22] <seb128> robru, <robru> how could you tell that it was overlay-scrollbars causing it?
[17:23] <seb128> robru, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glade/+bug/1032873 for example that you pointed
[17:23] <ubot2> seb128: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0xa2d980c> bug 1032873 not found
[17:23] <seb128> "StacktraceTop:
[17:23] <seb128>  cairo_region_is_empty () from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcairo.so.2
[17:23] <seb128>  ?? () from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/modules/liboverlay-scrollbar.so
[17:23] <seb128>  ?? () from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/modules/liboverlay-scrollbar.so"
[17:23] <seb128> robru, ^ that tells you it's the scrollbars ;-)
[17:23] <robru> oh, I was looking at the wrong one before, it didn't say that.
[17:23] <seb128> robru, read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash btw
[17:23] <seb128> robru, and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
[17:24] <desrt> robru: fwiw, gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xsettings overrides '{"Gtk/ShellShowsAppMenu":<0>}'
[17:24] <seb128> robru, they are useful links if you don't have too much gdb experience
[17:24] <robru> cool, thanks desrt
[17:24] <robru> seb128, will read soon.
[17:25] <seb128> robru, feel free to ask if you have any question ;-)
[17:25] <desrt> robru: also this gnome-shell extension is clever enough to do it for you:
[17:25] <desrt> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/32/remove-panel-app-menu/
[17:27] <robru> seb128, I got that deb installed for overlay scrollbars, now to reproduce a crash...
[17:27] <seb128> robru, you use gnome-shell right?
[17:27] <robru> yes
[17:27] <robru> oh, and while I've got you: how do I tell apport to stop ignoring a certain crash?
[17:28] <seb128> you click the box "don't tell me about it again" on the dialog?
[17:28] <seb128> oh, stop
[17:28] <seb128> ls ~/.apport*
[17:28] <robru> yeah, the opposite of that ;-)
[17:28] <seb128> there is a .apport-ignore.xml or something
[17:28] <seb128> I don't remember the name
[17:28] <robru> ah, thanks
[17:28] <robru> you got it
[17:28] <seb128> ;-)
[17:29] <robru> but wait, it only contains one thing, not the name of the thing that's being ignored.
[17:29] <robru> what was happening was I was having this one program crash right on launch. I didn't tell apport to ignore it, but I chose not to send the report the first couple times. then apport stopped asking.
[17:31] <seb128> robru, oh, rm /var/crash/...
[17:31] <seb128> robru, apport stop nagging after 3 instances to not spam you too much
[17:31] <seb128> if you rm the file it will nag you again until the counter reachs 3
[17:31] <robru> yeah, I want the nags back!
[17:31] <robru> cool, thanks
[17:31] <seb128> yw
[17:50]  * didrocks tricked google+ \o/
[17:50] <didrocks> and with that, it's the end of day :)
[17:50] <desrt> hm?
[17:50] <didrocks> have a good evening everyone :)
[17:51] <didrocks> desrt: well, so I made this Quickly hangout with the ubuntu on air account
[17:51] <didrocks> it seems that if someone enters during the hangout and is not in your circle, I got kicked from the hangout everytime
[17:51] <desrt> random
[17:51] <didrocks> never happen with my account
[17:51] <desrt> you think it would rather prevent them from entering
[17:51] <didrocks> after some research, I found that: http://solomonsucceeds.blogspot.fr/2012/01/google-plus-plus-teens.html
[17:52] <didrocks> basically, it's because the on air account is registered as a teenager
[17:52] <desrt> oh
[17:52] <desrt> lulz
[17:52] <didrocks> and to protect them, if someone enters a hangout where you are, you are muted and no camera
[17:52] <didrocks> not really easy to lead a hangout on air session, right? ;)
[17:52] <desrt> so where's the 'trick'?
[17:52] <didrocks> so, I went to the account and indeed, it was "born" in 1996
[17:53] <didrocks> I tried to change to something earlier
[17:53] <didrocks> but it refused "no valid birthday date"
[17:53] <didrocks> as long as I was putting a date that would make it major, it didn't want to save it
[17:53] <didrocks> so, I've said that the account it born on 9th august 1994
[17:53] <desrt> it's odd that this feature seems to be tied to being young
[17:53] <didrocks> it will be major tomorrow ;)
[17:53] <desrt> old people don't care about privacy?
[17:54] <desrt> ah :)
[17:54] <didrocks> \o/
[17:54] <desrt> good night :p
[17:54] <didrocks> desrt: do not forget it's birthday ;)
[17:54] <didrocks> counting on you!
[17:54] <desrt> :p
[17:54]  * desrt has already
[17:54] <didrocks> heh
[17:55] <didrocks> I'll redo a try tomorrow, but it seems to be really this feature making the hangout quite difficult to follow :)
[17:55] <didrocks> see you tomorrow guys!
[17:55] <desrt> didrocks: seems there is a mention of 'public hangout'
[17:55] <desrt> maybe you should look into that
[17:55] <didrocks> desrt: yeah, it was a public one
[17:55] <desrt> odd
[17:55] <didrocks> but there is still this feature on
[17:55] <didrocks> yep
[17:56] <didrocks> anyway, see you tomorrow ;)
[17:56] <desrt> ta
[19:09]  * Sweetshark just filed bug 1034560 and bug 1034558
[19:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1034560 in libserializer "[MIR] libloader-java, libformula-java, librepository-java, libfonts-java, libserializer-java " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034560
[19:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1034558 in pentaho-reporting-flow-engine "[MIR] libbase-java, libsac-java, libxml-java, libflute-java, libpentaho-reporting-flow-engine-java, liblayout-java" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034558
[20:17] <mterry> seb128, I'm getting "org.gtk.vfs.MountTracker.listMountableInfo call failed" errors and I see that a few days ago you advised pitti to relogin to fix them, due to a switch to gdbus?  I'm seeing them now and a restart didn't help.  :-/   Know of any other causes?
[20:20] <seb128> mterry, no, not known ... when do you get them?
[20:20] <mterry> seb128, oh hmmm.. only when I run under dbus-launch.  maybe I'm doing something goofy
[20:20] <mterry> seb128, my deja-dup test cases were suddenly triggering those warnings, but only under dbus-launch
[20:21] <kenvandine> what warnings?
[20:21] <kenvandine> i just noticed a bunch of fontconfig warnings
[20:21] <mterry> "org.gtk.vfs.MountTracker.listMountableInfo call failed: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: No such interface `org.gtk.vfs.MountTracker' on object at path /org/gtk/vfs/mounttracker (g-dbus-error-quark, 19)"
[20:21] <kenvandine> ah, yeah i see those in the signon* tests too
[20:21] <seb128> mterry, seems like my libsecret testing issues from the other day
[20:22] <seb128> mterry, tried to use dbus-test-runner?
[20:22] <mterry> seb128, I just did, same issue
[20:22] <mterry> kenvandine, for simple use cases, is there a reason to use dbus-test-runner over dbus-launch?
[20:23] <kenvandine> probably not
[20:23] <kenvandine> however
[20:23] <kenvandine> it is very handy when you need to run multiple things
[20:24] <kenvandine> or even wait for an interface to come it
[20:24] <kenvandine> it is very flexible
[20:28] <mterry> kenvandine, yar, haven't had cause for it's features yet, but it sounds good  :)
[20:57] <Chipaca> o/
[20:58] <Chipaca> just updated quantal, and the icons in the unity launcher (3d) are not visible. Do I need to do anything?
[20:58] <Chipaca> just noticed the icons in the alt-tabber aren't there either
[21:00] <robru> Chipaca, maybe search the logs from this chat room? I seem to recall somebody else discussing this issue, but I don't remember the solution.
[21:01] <Chipaca> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52140 maybe?
[21:01] <ubot2> Freedesktop bug 52140 in Mesa core "Ubuntu Unity - Launcher and switcher icons disappeared" [Normal,New: ]
[21:01] <Chipaca> that's a long time ago i suspect
[21:02] <robru> sorry, I'm not actually familiar with the problem.
[21:05]  * Chipaca purges a ppa that was pulling in mesa 8.1
[21:05] <seb128> Chipaca, doyou really use quantal?
[21:05] <Chipaca> seb128: yes, of course
[21:05] <Chipaca> seb128: i always use dev
[21:05] <seb128> Chipaca, right,robert_ancell had this issue at GUADEC but it was due a ppa he was running for system compositor
[21:05] <Chipaca> exactly
[21:06] <Chipaca> that bug above points to it being 8.1, so, ppa-purging :)
[21:06] <seb128> Chipaca, I meant 'are you sure you use quantal and not ppas versions'
[21:06] <seb128> right
[21:06] <Chipaca> ah :)
[21:06] <Chipaca> yeah
[21:06] <Chipaca> unfortunately ppa-purge is now suggesting i remove xorg
[21:07] <robru> so? who needs that? ;-)
[21:09] <desrt> seb128: oh.  you're back.
[21:12] <Chipaca> yup, downgrading mesa did it
[21:12] <Chipaca> yay
[21:13] <robru> hooray!
[21:13] <Chipaca> robru: thanks :)
[21:14] <robru> what? all I did was tell you to google it ;-)
[21:14] <Chipaca> robru: in the right place :)
[21:14] <robru> hahah, ok
[21:14] <Chipaca> actually you told me to check the channel backlog
[21:14] <robru> true
[21:14] <Chipaca> so i didn't google anything :)
[21:14] <robru> I was assuming you would use google to find that.
[21:14] <Chipaca> nope. ctrl-f
[21:15] <robru> ahhh. I guess I don't lurk here 24/7
[21:15] <Chipaca> :)
[21:16] <seb128> desrt, sort oh, watching olympics with the laptop around ... why? :-)
[21:27] <robru> Hey seb128, I made a couple of those packages you asked me to. I'm not saying you should review them right now, but if you were bored of the olympics... ;-)
[21:29] <seb128> robru, which ones? how did you put them up for review,sponsoring?
[21:29] <robru> i did baobab and cheese. They're in my PPA. I'm not really sure how to officially put them up for review, because last time I did this you just copied gtranslator directly from my PPA.
[21:30] <robru> https://launchpad.net/~robru/+archive/ppa/+packages (cheese only just uploaded and will be built shortly)
[21:34] <seb128> robru, when you have an upload ready please subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to the bug and put a link to where to find it
[21:35] <robru> ah, I see. thanks.
[21:36] <seb128> yw
[21:43] <seb128> robru, so, welcome to debian,ubuntu where there are 3 ways to do anything
[21:43] <seb128> robru, if you apt-get source evince you will see
[21:43] <robru> only 3? hah! I used to be a perl hacker before I took up python.
[21:44] <seb128> "NOTICE: 'cheese' packaging is maintained in the 'Bzr' version control system at:
[21:44] <seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/cheese/ubuntu
[21:44] <seb128> Please use:
[21:44] <seb128> bzr branch https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/cheese/ubuntu
[21:44] <seb128> "
[21:44] <seb128> ideally for those you would put up as merge request
[21:44] <seb128> so we would only need to bzr merge ;-)
[21:44] <seb128> robru, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr
[21:44] <robru> oh, I can do a merge request. I have the bzr branch right here, I just have to push it
[21:45] <seb128> those a debian style vcses with only the debian dir
[21:45] <seb128> it would be good
[21:45] <seb128> it makes review and merge easier
[21:45] <seb128> otherwise I have to dget your ppa version, debdiff, copy the diff over to the vcs and merge manually
[21:46] <robru> no! I'll make it easier.
[21:46] <robru> hang on
[21:46] <cheche> where gdm get its languae values?
[21:46] <cheche> where gdm get its language values?
[21:46] <seb128> cheche, try asking on #gdm on irc.gnome.org
[21:47] <seb128> cheche, we don't use gdm anymore but lightdm
[21:47] <cheche> seb128: ok thanks
[21:47] <robru> seb128, for cheese I didn't need to make any changes other than changelog in debian dir, all I did was bzr merge-upstream and it was pretty magical. is that all I have to do? give you the updated changelog? where to I upload the orig.tar.gz to?
[21:47] <seb128> cheche, I'm unsure what gdm was doing, could be looking at available locales (locale -a list)
[21:48] <seb128> robru, that's where you hit the 3 ways to do things, cheese is a debian only vcs (like most of desktop), it doesn't use merge-upstream
[21:48] <cheche> seb128: it is  bit strannge on the language-settings I am able to select spanish language
[21:48] <cheche> But when ubuntu start it uses english languages (#gdm is empty)
[21:48] <seb128> robru, typically you just update the changelog yes
[21:49] <seb128> robru, those vcs use the tarball and the debian dir from the vcs, they get the tarball using the debian/watch infos
[21:49] <seb128> robru, if the watch is not buggy you don't need to find a tarball, bzr-builddeb will download it for whoever tries to build
[21:51] <seb128> robru, looking to https://launchpadlibrarian.net/112285655/cheese_3.5.4-0ubuntu2_3.5.5-0ubuntu1.diff.gz the update seems fine and there was nothing to do out of the changelog update
[21:51] <seb128> robru, so just do a merge request for that ;-)
[21:52] <seb128> robru, usually we let the changelog target to UNRELEASED and whoever upload change it and tag
[21:52] <robru> ah
[21:55] <robru> seb128, so I made http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~robru/cheese/ubuntu/revision/76 now, and seriously if we merge that, then that is all that is necessary? launchpad magics the rest of the package into existence?
[21:56] <seb128> robru, right, basically you can check out, go in an empty dir and do
[21:56] <seb128> bzr branch lp:~robru/cheese/ubuntu
[21:56] <seb128> cd ubuntu
[21:56] <seb128> bzr bd --source
[21:56] <seb128> and see what happens
[21:56] <robru> whoa
[21:57] <robru> Now I see why everybody is so fussy about having a correct watch file.
[21:57] <robru> Ok, so now what about baobab, where the watch file is specifically coded to only look for stable releases?
[21:58] <seb128> you usually want to delete the [02468] partt
[21:58] <seb128> it's coming from Debian which only tracks stable series
[21:58] <robru> ok.
[21:59] <robru> I'm significantly more impressed with this system than I was with the other way I was doing previously.
[22:00] <robru> https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/cheese/ubuntu/+merge/118838 so I made this merge request, and that's the end of it then?
[22:00] <robru> should I do it this way for baobab as well or is it ok just being from my PPA?
[22:00] <seb128> robru, yes, you got the destination wrong though
[22:00] <robru> what? you told me to leave it as UNRELEASED and then the reviewer would set that.
[22:00] <seb128> "Merge into: 	lp:cheese"
[22:00] <seb128> is wrong
[22:01] <robru> oh, that
[22:01] <robru> where do I merge?
[22:01] <seb128> sorry
[22:01] <seb128> yes
[22:01] <seb128> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/cheese/ubuntu
[22:01] <seb128> what apt-get source told you
[22:01] <robru> oh, durp. yes. launchpad defaulted to lp:cheese and I didn't think about it.
[22:01] <seb128> (which is what is in debian/control)
[22:02] <seb128> robru, also, better to indicate (lp: #bug) in the changelog
[22:02] <robru> But it would be sloppy to have two commits, so I'd have to start over in order to add that info and have it all be one nice commit, right?
[22:03] <seb128> robru, like "  * New upstream release (lp: #1034615)"
[22:03] <seb128> so the bug got closed automatically on upload
[22:03] <seb128> the bug listed under "lp: #nnnn" syntax in the changelog get closed by launchpad with the changelog entry as comment when the source is uploaded
[22:04] <robru> ah yeah, I'm familiar with that kind of magic from github.
[22:04] <robru> didn't realize launchpad also did that.
[22:04] <seb128> robru, 2 commits? you mean
[22:04] <seb128> robru, the lp: #... is for ubuntu uploads
[22:04] <robru> Yeah, I mean, if I took my existing branch, then made a second commit in order to add the lp bug#, it would look sloppy, so I'm just going to delete the whole thing and then do it right the first time, in one commit.
[22:04] <seb128> robru, if you work in a source in bzr it's bzr commit --fixes lp:nnnn
[22:04] <seb128> robru, just bzr uncommit
[22:05] <seb128> edit the changelog
[22:05] <seb128> and bzr commit
[22:05] <robru> ok wait, is the lp bug# supposed to go inside the debian/changelog file? or just in the `bzr commit` message?
[22:05] <seb128> you can bzr push --overwrite
[22:05] <seb128> to overwrite a remote branche
[22:06] <seb128> robru, sorry, just the changelog for ubuntu
[22:06] <seb128> ubuntu bugs are linked to package updates
[22:06] <seb128> I shouldn't give you too much infos together ;-)
[22:06] <seb128> the equivalent for upstream code handling is commit --fixes lp:...
[22:07] <seb128> that would link the vcs you push to with the bug
[22:07] <seb128> e.g it would add a "linked branch" info to the bug
[22:07] <robru> sorry, I'm still not quite understanding. So what you're saying is that the lp bug# does *not* go in the debian/changelog file. Only when I do `bzr commit` and it asks me to type a message. that's where I enter the bug#
[22:07] <seb128> sorry
[22:07] <seb128> - for packages the commit doesn't matter
[22:07] <seb128> the common interaction for packages is the upload
[22:08] <seb128> so what matters is the changelog entry of the upload
[22:08] <seb128>  
[22:08] <seb128> so for that one write it in debian/changelog
[22:08] <seb128> and just "bzr commit"
[22:08] <robru> ok
[22:08] <robru> I think i've got you now.
[22:09] <seb128> if you were working on lp:ubiquity and wanted to link a commit to bug you would "bzr commit --fixes lp:<bug>"
[22:09] <seb128> it's a bit confusing that launchpad does everything
[22:09] <robru> I'm confused because I'm looking at debian/changelog now and none of the previous entries mention an lp bug.
[22:10] <seb128> well, people who have upload access don't bother opening a bug to close it
[22:10] <seb128> e.g I wouldn't do it
[22:10] <seb128> but you opened a sponsoring request bug
[22:10] <seb128> so you can as well get it close with the upload ;-)
[22:10] <robru> ok
[22:11] <seb128> robru, typically, look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+changelog
[22:12] <seb128> robru, that's more of a typical actively maintained source
[22:12] <robru> ahhh
[22:14] <robru> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~robru/cheese/ubuntu/revision/76 so I'll merge this then?
[22:15] <seb128> robru, yes
[22:17] <robru> https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/cheese/ubuntu/+merge/118839 ok
[22:19] <robru> is there an easy way to tell which packages are handled this way vs which ones I would need to bzr merge-upstream and then push to my PPA?
[22:20] <seb128> the "common" way is full source and merge-upstream
[22:20] <seb128> exception have their Vcs listed in debian/control
[22:20] <seb128> and apt-get source will tell you about the Vcs
[22:20] <seb128> so watch what apt-get source says, look to debian/control
[22:21] <seb128> in practice most desktop packages use a debian only Vcs
[22:21] <seb128> note that things coming from Debian might have a Debian vcs, ignore those
[22:21] <seb128> yeah, it's harder that it should be :-(
[22:21] <seb128> so thumb's rule: if the debian/control has a launchpad Vcs uses that
[22:22] <seb128> otherwise use merge-upstream, ppa
[22:22] <robru> after a while I'll just know from experience, no worries.
[22:22] <seb128> (not that you can also do merge requests for the merge-upstream ones)
[22:22] <seb128> they are just against lp:ubuntu/<source>
[22:22] <seb128> ideally we would move to use that workflow as well, but you will see with a bit of practice that it has drawbacks as well
[22:23] <seb128> download speed being one
[22:23] <seb128> dealing with patches being another one
[22:23] <robru> ah yeah
[22:23] <seb128> (it's a bit tricky to deal with patches, figuring if the Vcs should have them applied or not for example)
[22:24] <seb128> you often finish with .pc "noise" from quilt in the diff
[22:24] <robru> yeah, I have noticed that .pc stuff.
[22:29] <seb128> robru, ok, merged, uploaded
[22:29] <robru> sweet.
[22:29] <seb128> that done I'm calling it a day, will review the other ones tomorrow
[22:29] <seb128> have fun everyone
[22:29] <robru> thanks.
[22:29] <robru> g'night!
[23:22] <bschaefer> hello, anyone know why you can only open 1 instances of gcalctool now?
[23:25] <robru> just a guess: did it start using gtkapplication perhaps?
[23:29] <bschaefer> *it* referring to how gcalctool is starting?
[23:30] <robru> yes, gtkapplication is a new feature of gtk that allows applications to enforce that only one instance can be running at any given time. I think it might even be necessary in order to take advantage of the new gnome-shell app menu, which it looks like gcalctool is using.
[23:30] <robru> it seems like an odd choice for a calculator to enforce single-instance mode, though.
[23:32] <robru> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2012-April/msg09907.html yes it seems so
[23:32] <bschaefer> hmm odd...im not sure why they would enforce that
[23:32] <robru> in short, this was a design decision, not a bug. if you disagree, you should pester Florian Mullner about it ;-)
[23:33] <bschaefer> yeah, but that happened back in April ... hmm
[23:33] <bschaefer> thanks!
[23:33] <robru> you're welcome!