[14:02] <stgraber> NCommander, stokachu, arges, jibel, skaet, smoser, jamespage: ping
[14:02] <arges> o/
[14:02] <jamespage> o/
[14:02] <stgraber> #startmeeting 12.04.1 team meeting
[14:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  9 14:02:28 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[14:02] <seb128> hey
[14:02] <stgraber> hey seb128
[14:02] <jibel> hi
[14:02] <stgraber> #topic Action items review
[14:02] <skaet> hi
[14:02] <stgraber> xnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. fs/storage testing
[14:02] <stgraber> xnox: there by any chance?
[14:03] <jibel> no news from xnox
[14:03] <xnox> nope
[14:03] <xnox> but there is progress in utah development, such that this testing can be now feasible
[14:03] <xnox> will do this next week.
[14:03] <xnox> ..
[14:03] <stgraber> ok, cool
[14:03] <stgraber> Flavor leads participating, please verify that the images are as you
[14:03] <stgraber> expect, and start smoke testing tomorrow to make sure all the right
[14:03] <stgraber> 12.04.1 bits are in place.
[14:04] <stgraber> skaet: did you get any feedback on that?
[14:04] <skaet> yup,  flavors started testing last Friday,  results coming in
[14:04] <skaet> not heard of any nasty surprises from them.
[14:05] <skaet> ..
[14:05] <stgraber> good to hear
[14:05] <stgraber> #topic Review of upcoming deadlines
[14:05] <stgraber>   - today 21:00 UTC: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing
[14:05] <stgraber>   - 2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
[14:05] <stgraber>   - 2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
[14:06] <stgraber> The plan is to switch images to building from -updates today, though we'll need quite a few more tricks to have them really usable, so it might have to wait till tomorrow or we'll be building an oversized batch with broken upgrade path
[14:06] <stgraber> #topic Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress.
[14:07] <stgraber> Not going to paste stats this time as it's not as relevant at this stage.
[14:07] <stgraber> Verification and fixes of any detected regression should be the main focus at this point.
[14:07] <stgraber> We're at least still waiting on maas and eglibc at this point, these need to be in -proposed by 21:00 UTC today at the latest and might still be getting their exception declined if it's considered too dangerous at this point.
[14:08] <stgraber> I'm currently trying to get our alternate image to allow for internet-less upgrades from 10.04 to 12.04, this might require some extra shuffling and uploading later today
[14:08] <stgraber> as a general rule, if you want something in 12.04.1, upload it to the queue. It's easier for us to then review it here and grant or decline the exception. Poking #ubuntu-release might also make things go a bit faster (if we missed an upload)
[14:09] <stgraber> any critical bugs that need some hilighting?
[14:10] <stgraber> taking that as a no
[14:11] <stgraber> #topic Media oversizedness
[14:11] <stgraber> The recent live-build fixes have made both amd64 and amd64+mac fit again
[14:11] <smartboyhw> Yeah!
[14:11] <stgraber> i386 will need some fixing as it's including an extra langpack making it oversized at the moment
[14:12] <stgraber> a simple seed change didn't do the trick, so we'll likely need to hack it around in live-build
[14:12] <stgraber> I'll be looking into that once I'm done fixing the upgrade bug
[14:12] <skaet> :)
[14:12] <stgraber> As far as I know, all the other images currently fit, so unless some packages in -proposed got a big size increase, we should be fine
[14:13] <stgraber> #topic Round table
[14:13] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ echo $(shuf -e NCommander seb128 stgraber stokachu arges jibel skaet smoser jamespage)
[14:13] <stgraber> stokachu NCommander seb128 skaet stgraber arges jamespage smoser jibel
[14:13] <stgraber> stokachu:
[14:14] <stgraber> NCommander: then
[14:14] <smoser> o/
[14:15] <stgraber> seb128:
[14:15] <seb128> hey
[14:15] <seb128> nothing special, we are hard frozen
[14:15] <seb128> a compiz SRU was uploaded to fix the arm* build issue from the one currently in proposed
[14:16] <seb128> discussion is ongoing on the release list about whoopsie on or off
[14:16] <seb128> otherwise we pushing some fixes to .2
[14:16] <seb128> we are mostly good at this point I think
[14:16] <seb128> ..
[14:17] <stgraber> ok. I guess you'll want to do some poking in #ubuntu-release to get that compiz upload in
[14:17] <stgraber> skaet:
[14:17] <skaet> Daily images will be switching from being built based on  -proposed to being built based on -updates after 2100 today.
[14:17] <skaet> Release Note framework and initial edit for 12.04.1 set up was done.
[14:17] <skaet> Release Notes are available for updates now.   Fixed bugs have been pruned out and the original 12.04 versions have been archived off.   Plan this time around is to make the release notes reflective of the 12.04.1 image, and include changelogs.   To make edits (adding bugs, documenting new features added since 12.04),  please edit the appropriate wiki linked to from: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseN
[14:17] <skaet> otes
[14:17] <skaet> For example: if there is a new server feature for 12.04.1,  a note should go into: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuServer  (the original version for 12.04 is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuServer/UbuntuServer-12.04)
[14:17] <skaet> ..
[14:18] <stgraber> stokachu:
[14:18] <stgraber> oops
[14:18] <stgraber> stgraber:
[14:18] <skaet> :)
[14:19] <stgraber> right, so I've been working on that upgrade bug with slangasek yesterday. I managed to get it working locally but now we need to achieve the same miracle with the alternate media.
[14:19] <stgraber> Will continue on that today, then look at fixing the langpack list on the i386 daily-live
[14:20] <stgraber> I also have a bunch more verification to do as the list is kind of long at this point
[14:20] <stgraber> then maybe I'll even find the time to look at the usb-creator verification failure, though I don't consider this 12.04.1 critical at this point, so if it's easy to fix, good, otherwise, will just postpone
[14:20] <stgraber> arges:
[14:21] <arges> I setup the cronjob to upload the point release page
[14:21] <arges> http://people.canonical.com/~arges/point-release/milestone-12.04.1.html
[14:21] <arges> Submitted code to arsenal, hope to get things on cranberry and also start putting up pages for 12.04.2
[14:21] <arges> ..
[14:21] <arges> oh
[14:22] <arges> still waiting on http://launchpad.net/bugs/979003
[14:22] <arges> ..
[14:22] <stgraber> yeah... infinity said we'd get it uploaded today...
[14:22] <stgraber> jamespage:
[14:23] <jamespage> so most server stuff is looking ok; the only straggler being walinuxagent which is currently stuck in the precise-propsed NEW queue
[14:23] <jamespage> this is required for enablement of the azure IaaS platform
[14:23] <jamespage> other than that I've been repointing stuff that won't make it to -updates
[14:23] <jamespage> I'll let smoser cover maas
[14:23] <jamespage> ..
[14:24] <smoser> there are not going to be any updates to maas for 12.04.1
[14:25] <stgraber> good to hear ;)
[14:25] <stgraber> smoser:
[14:26] <smoser> i have nothing else really.
[14:26] <smoser> i woudl say ther eis an outside chance at having a cloud-init change in today
[14:26] <smoser> but that is low likelyhood.
[14:27] <stgraber> ok
[14:27] <stgraber> jibel:
[14:27] <jibel> Focus on upgrade testing:
[14:27] <jibel> * defects found with automated tests are mostly obsolete configuration files. I don't know if they are all harmless so I reported a few for desktop and server:
[14:27] <jibel> bug 1034824 bug 1034829 bug 1034830 bug 1034832
[14:27] <jibel> You can have a look to the artefact obsolete_conffiles.log attached to the jobs at https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/view/Upgrade%20Testing%20Dashboard/ and if you want more, tell me and I'll file more
[14:28] <jibel> * bug 1034889
[14:28] <jibel> * I've been hit by bug 979661 during an upgrade from Oneiric (debconf failed to load GTK). It seems to occur rather frequently. but need latest update-manager to verify the workaround really works
[14:29] <jibel> * Community bugs:
[14:29] <jibel>     bug 1034794: if someone from foundations could have a look
[14:29] <jibel>     bug 1034668: for the desktop team
[14:29] <jibel> todo:
[14:29] <jibel> * verification of bug 1029531 in progress but failing at the moment, waiting for openoffice to be accepted and seeded.
[14:29] <jibel> furthermore the CD contains update-manager 0.156.14 instead of 0.156.14.8 (-proposed) or .6 (-updates)
[14:29] <jibel> One request:
[14:29] <jibel> Would it be possible to update UpgraderTool in http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-development to point to the version in precise-updates (or better precise-proposed) if that makes sense ?
[14:29] <jibel> It currently points to the version from the release pocket and makes testing versions from proposed and updates a bit harder, and people who are currently upgrading to precise with -d doesn't use the latest version.
[14:30] <jibel> Installation smoke testing;
[14:30] <jibel> Nothing found for the moment.
[14:30] <jibel> ..
[14:30] <skaet> jibel,  we'll be switching the builds to be from -updates later today,  so probably not make sense to switch now.
[14:30] <skaet> however,  something to note for 12.04.2
[14:31] <stgraber> mvo: ^
[14:32] <skaet> ..
[14:32] <jibel> skaet, will that pull the release-upgrader from -updates too ? because currently for example alternate is built with packages from -proposed but the upgrader is from -release
[14:32] <slangasek> switching to -updates today?  I thought the switch wasn't meant to be until we're farther along with the SRU promotion?
[14:33] <skaet> slangasek,  schedule discussed was we'd be switching the dailies to be built from -updates today,  rather than -proposed,  to ready for final freeze.
[14:33] <slangasek> hmm
[14:33] <slangasek> except that means no more image-based testing of the stuff that's currently in -proposed and not ready for promotion
[14:34] <slangasek> and since we're iterating CD upgrade fixes, that's rather significant
[14:34] <skaet> hmm..
[14:34] <slangasek> perhaps we should push back the switch?
[14:34] <stgraber> yeah, that's why I said earlier that I'm not going to do the switch until we have a test image that upgrades fine and isn't oversized
[14:35] <slangasek> ok
[14:35] <skaet> lets discuss further in #ubuntu-release then after the meeting.
[14:35] <stgraber> I don't necessarily mind regressing with the switch to -updates as long as I know that the fixes in -proposed are correct and will indeed fix the image when they land (or the SRU team can decide to let them through to -updates before the 7 days)
[14:36] <stgraber> #topic AOB
[14:38] <stgraber> ok, let's get back to work :)
[14:38] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[14:38] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  9 14:38:21 2012 UTC.
[14:38] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-09-14.02.moin.txt
[14:38] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-09-14.02.html
[14:40] <mvo> jibel: sure I can update meta-release-development
[14:40] <seb128> thanks
[14:41] <skaet> thanks stgraber
[14:41] <jibel> thanks stgraber
[14:41] <mvo> jibel: meta-release-development and/or meta-release-lts-development?
[14:41] <jibel> mvo, well, skaet wants to wait until builds are from -updates
[14:42] <mvo> jibel: ok, just shout and I update it immediately
[14:42] <jibel> mvo, ok, thank you
[16:00] <micahg> anyone here for the MOTU meeting?
[16:01]  * dholbach is here, but will have to run for 3-4 minutes
[16:01]  * iulian waves.
[16:01]  * iulian is here on and off.
[16:02] <micahg> let's wait a couple minutes to see if anyone else shows up
[16:02] <jtaylor> <
[16:03] <dholbach> micahg: shall we just start and see who joins in? :)
[16:03] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[16:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  9 16:03:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[16:03] <dholbach> welcome everybody to the MOTU meeting
[16:03] <dholbach> we have our agenda over here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
[16:04] <dholbach> #topic Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite)
[16:04] <dholbach> anyone here to discuss the topic? :)
[16:04] <micahg> o/
[16:04] <dholbach> awesome
[16:05] <jtaylor> I can probably help out to but I'm not familiar with the situation
[16:05] <dholbach> micahg: can you enlighten us about what's planned?
[16:05] <micahg> So, this is something I wanted to do for precise, but ran out of time, I've repeatedly requested for the removal from Debian without success, so I figure we can push things forward by JFDI in Ubuntu and pushing up patches
[16:05] <micahg> we have to fix up the remaining reverse dependencies to drop sqlite 2 support as was done for applications in main for precise
[16:06] <dholbach> micahg: does this involve major porting work or is it something we could make part of our bug fixing initiatives?
[16:07] <micahg> sometimes it's a flag, there might be a little porting work, I'd be fine with dropping anything that requires porting until it's done upstream (I would venture that most upstreams probably have already done this, it might not be packaged yet though)
[16:08] <jtaylor> how many packages are affected?
[16:08] <Laney> can we get a tracker?
[16:08] <micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1138024/
[16:08] <micahg> Laney: sure, sounds like a good idea
[16:08] <Laney> nice
[16:09] <micahg> the list is much smaller than it was in precise FWIR
[16:09] <dholbach> the python-sqlite rdeps would likely need to go too?
[16:09] <dholbach> or rather be updated
[16:10]  * xnox is testing ben tracker file locally
[16:10] <Laney> good old xnox
[16:10] <micahg> yeah, updated to use python-pysqlite2
[16:10] <dholbach> old?
[16:10] <dholbach> :-P
[16:10] <Laney> who still doesn't love motu enough to hang around in our channel :(
[16:10] <dholbach> good old public shaming
[16:10] <micahg> only about 10 rdepends on python-sqlite
[16:10] <Laney> now that /is/ old
[16:11] <dholbach> micahg: I'm happy to advertise the initiative as part of the bug fixing initiatives - maybe not for new contributors, but still it'd be good to get some eyeballs on it - maybe we should talk after the meeting about what we need to do for this
[16:12] <micahg> ok
[16:12] <dholbach> it doesn't look like anybody has major objections to getting this done :)
[16:13]  * xnox rumbles something about DD and motu
[16:13] <dholbach> micahg: do you feel we have a good enough way forward to getting sqlite out of the archive?
[16:14] <micahg> dholbach: I think so
[16:14] <dholbach> fantastic
[16:14] <dholbach> moving on then
[16:14] <dholbach> #topic update from Developer Advisory Team
[16:14] <dholbach> I don't have much to report, as I was on holidays
[16:15] <dholbach> but I'm happy to report that we have a bunch of new contributors in quantal already who we're reaching out to
[16:15] <dholbach> we are still looking for new contributors to the DAT, so if you're interested in the social aspects of Ubuntu Development just ping me
[16:15] <dholbach> any questions about the DAT?
[16:16] <dholbach> ok, moving on :)
[16:16] <dholbach> #topic review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
[16:17] <dholbach> it looks like it hasn't been updated in a while, so it'd be good to review it and see what we might want to add or replace on there
[16:17] <dholbach> micahg and I will add something about the sqlite situation - anyone else who would like to advertise some necessary work in the archive?
[16:17] <micahg> well, I've got something else, but not for the list
[16:18]  * xnox boost1.50 transition quantal or R-series?
[16:18] <dholbach> now is a probably a good time to get new or reemerging contributors involved as quantal is likely less daunting to run on a regular basis :)
[16:18] <dholbach> micahg: an initiative you'd like to propose or a new/separate topic?
[16:18] <micahg> dholbach: initiative, but only for existing MOTUs
[16:19] <micahg> not to be exclusive
[16:19] <dholbach> which one is that?
[16:19] <micahg> ghc rebuilds :)
[16:20] <dholbach> xnox, I can't give you a proper answer on this, but I could imagine that ScottK might know more - wasn't this discussed at some stage on the ubuntu-devel@ list already?
[16:20] <dholbach> micahg: I'll do the minutes later on and am happy to mention it in there if that suits you
[16:20] <ScottK> xnox: R.
[16:20] <micahg> xnox: I think we have enough cleanup for quantal without starting another boost transition
[16:20] <xnox> ScottK: micahg: agreed.
[16:20] <dholbach> ok, that's settled then :)
[16:21] <ScottK> Pick your boost at release open and don't change without a very good reason.
[16:21] <micahg> dholbach: yeah, if anyone wants to help, just link to the tracker: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ghc.html , I think we're coordinating in -motu for it
[16:21] <xnox> ScottK: micahg: where/how do we add tasks for R archive opening? it would help to have boost-defaults uploaded at archive opening, same as it was done for Q
[16:21] <dholbach> thanks a lot micahg
[16:21] <ScottK> In fact, I'd be inclined to stick with 1.49 until after Wheezy releases and Debian changes.
[16:21] <ScottK> xnox: You have to remember to do it and talk to doko/cjwatson to coordinate.
[16:22] <ScottK> We should discuss it though.
[16:22] <micahg> there's a wiki page for archive opening tasks
[16:22] <xnox> ok. I'll take it to mailing list closer to R opening.
[16:22] <dholbach> ok - anything else we should be pointing new (or other work-seeking) contributors towards?
[16:22] <ScottK> Sounds good.
[16:22] <micahg> fix Debian RC bugs so wheezy can release :)
[16:24] <dholbach> alright, I guess we can move on then - I'll have a look over it tomorrow again and blog about it
[16:24] <dholbach> #topic Any other business?
[16:25] <dholbach> I'm not sure why "Update MOTU/FAQ" is still on the agenda
[16:25] <dholbach> I'll remove it - it seems like Bhavani already updated it
[16:25] <micahg> o/
[16:26] <dholbach> micahg: go
[16:26] <cjwatson> xnox: Feel free to add stuff to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewReleaseCycleProcess if it's been discussed.
[16:26] <cjwatson> (Or is obviously sensible.)
[16:27] <micahg> just a reminder that backports is a great way to get newer software into old releases without having to fiddle with PPAs, get the version you want into the dev release and run the requestbackport script from ubuntu-dev-tools (12.04+), the script will let you know what testing needs to be done
[16:28] <micahg> oh, also, did we get anywhere with -backports open at feature freeze yet?
[16:28] <dholbach> maybe a blog post about this would be good to have too?
[16:28] <micahg> dholbach: yeah, I've been meaning to set up a blog
[16:28] <dholbach> fantastic
[16:28] <micahg> cjwatson: can we do backports open at feature freeze yet?
[16:29] <cjwatson> I don't recall.  Wasn't there a work item or a bug or something?
[16:30] <Laney> there was some launchpad change but I always forget what it is
[16:30] <Laney> pretty sure ajmitch got the work item though :-)
[16:31] <micahg> sleeptold, I think that's a new one...
[16:31] <dholbach> ok, any other other business? :)
[16:32] <dholbach> perfect - I'll get out the minutes tomorrow
[16:32] <dholbach> thanks a lot everyone! :)
[16:32] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[16:32] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  9 16:32:41 2012 UTC.
[16:32] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-09-16.03.moin.txt
[16:32] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-09-16.03.html
[16:32] <Laney> hang on
[16:32] <Laney> oh, nm
[16:32] <micahg> thanks dholbach
[16:32] <Laney> I felt a thought formulating
[16:33] <dholbach> Laney, sorry - what did you want to talk about?
[16:33] <Laney> I was thinking the other day about the plusonemaint team
[16:33] <Laney> and how the people there tend to come up with little projects to get done
[16:34] <Laney> it just occurs to me that there could be some sharing to be done there
[16:34] <Laney> that is all, it's quite a nebulous thought
[16:34] <dholbach> Laney, do you think it could help to bring up the idea in a mailing list conversion so we could all expand on it?
[16:35] <Laney> i'm not even sure what to suggest :P
[16:35] <dholbach> ok, I'll try to mention it accurately in the minutes ;-)
[16:36] <Laney> anyway, carry on
[16:36] <dholbach> and hope you'll have some free time to find out how we could do something about it
[16:36] <dholbach> maybe it'd already help to mention a few of those little projects to give everyone some ideas
[16:36] <Laney> just, we could encourage them to send out "this is what we're going to work on this week" updates or something
[16:37] <dholbach> yes, that'd very likely help
[16:38] <Laney> not sure how organised it all is though really
[16:39] <dholbach> maybe bring it up on the ML to remind everyone to mention their projects, if suitable? *shrugs*
[16:40]  * Laney goes to #ubuntu+1-maint
[16:40] <dholbach> sweet
[16:40] <dholbach> adjourned :)
[18:00] <jono> alrighty!
[18:00]  * cielak waves
[18:00] <jono> #startmeeting
[18:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  9 18:00:30 2012 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:00] <mfisch> hi
[18:00] <jono> welcome everyone to the Ubuntu Accomplishments meeting!
[18:00] <jono> who is here for the meeting today?
[18:00] <cielak> o/
[18:01] <mfisch> me!
[18:01] <jono> alrighty :-)
[18:01]  * janos too
[18:01] <jono> woo!
[18:01] <jono> so before we start, a quick update on the Canonical IS RT ticket
[18:02] <jono> I had a response from Canonical IS about us deploying our service there and they are currently evaluating hardware and resource needs
[18:02] <jono> one thing they made clear is that it is unlikely to be deployed before late Aug due to a data center move]
[18:02] <cielak> I have a question in this matter
[18:02] <jono> the good news is that this looks this is going to go ahead
[18:02] <jono> sure cielak
[18:03] <janos> nice nice
[18:03] <cielak> are they going to migrate the server including the U1 setup?
[18:03] <jono> cielak, yeah
[18:03] <cielak> I mean - after they deploy the validation server on their machines, will shares keep being active?
[18:03] <jono> cielak, yes, they should be
[18:04] <cielak> alright! I was worried if we'll need to somehow recreate them all...
[18:04] <jono> we are just deploying the same U1 user on a different machine
[18:04] <cielak> hm, that makes sense
[18:04] <jono> the sharecheck script int he validation server should reload them all and resubscribe them
[18:04] <cielak> yeah :)
[18:04] <cielak> thanks :)
[18:04] <jono> and the good news is that while we set this up our existing server can still be serving requests
[18:05] <cielak> won't they collide?
[18:06] <jono> cielak, they wont collide so long as only one server is processing the jobs
[18:06] <jono> having the multiple shares set up should be fine
[18:06] <jono> so we can get the shares working on the IS server while the current server processes jobs
[18:06] <cielak> aah, so only one signs the trophies, but all can browse then?
[18:06] <cielak> them*
[18:06] <jono> right
[18:06] <cielak> that's cool!
[18:06] <jono> and then we switch over the signing to the new server
[18:07] <jono> any more questions about the move?
[18:07] <cielak> not from me
[18:07] <jono> cool
[18:07] <jono> alrighty, so onto 0.3 planning
[18:07] <jono> so we have a few outstanding MPs to review
[18:07] <jono> cielak, did you get a chance to look at the big rename branch?
[18:08] <cielak> not yet, I gave only a brief look ;)
[18:08] <jono> I know mfisch took a look
[18:08] <jono> cool, I think should an invasive change will want a look from each of us
[18:08] <mfisch> yeah I did a couple looks
[18:08] <jono> and then we will need to port the viewer and lens, which shouldnt be much work
[18:08] <cielak> although it seems to me that ideally we would merge it together with a similar branch for the viewer
[18:08] <mfisch> it is invasive but using grep and vi it's easy to follow
[18:08] <mfisch> yeah the viewer merge should be ready to go
[18:09] <jono> mfisch, oh did you work on the change to the viewer?
[18:09] <mfisch> no
[18:09] <mfisch> sorry I mean should be ready to go before we merge the daemon
[18:09] <jono> oh I see
[18:09] <jono> yeah, I agree
[18:10] <jono> one other point
[18:10] <jono> we should also fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1026749 while we are doing this
[18:10] <jono> mfisch, would you be happy to work on this?
[18:11] <jono> actually that bug is not critical
[18:11] <jono> I forgot it is about vars as opposed to functions
[18:12] <mfisch> hold on 1 sec
[18:12] <jono> sure
[18:12] <mfisch> yeah I can do that, but it will not affect the API
[18:13] <jono> yeah, no worrieds
[18:13] <jono> if you can assign it to yourself that would be cool
[18:13] <jono> ooh
[18:13] <jono> we should also fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1024085
[18:13] <jono> I am just trying to ensure we focus on API related changes
[18:14] <jono> anyone want to take this one?
[18:15] <jono> cielak, which bugs would you like to focus on in 0.3 as we move forward?
[18:15] <jono> I am wondering if it is possible for us to get some assignments on these bugs
[18:16] <jono> I would like to open up further testing in a few weeks if poss
[18:16] <cielak> well, the point is that in 2 days I'll be offline for 2 weeks, so I would rather not assign myself to anything greater to avoid blocking anything
[18:16] <mfisch> I thought that one was fixed with the big API change?
[18:17] <jono> cielak, ahhh of course
[18:17] <jono> good point
[18:17] <jono> mfisch, oh it is?
[18:17] <cielak> by the way, I am delighted to see Brian working extensively on some bugs out there :)
[18:17] <mfisch> jono: looking
[18:18] <jono> cielak, totally!
[18:18] <jono> so maybe while cielak is away, mfisch would you be happy to look at the daemon bugs and I will look at viewer bugs?
[18:18] <cielak> hm, I can take #1033773, this shouldn't take time ;)
[18:18] <mfisch> jono: unfortately I'm also off and on next week
[18:18] <mfisch> week after is fine
[18:19] <jono> mfisch, no worries, so I will try and nail some viewer bugs next week
[18:19] <jono> and then we can reconvene around the daemon bugs the week after
[18:19] <jono> and obviously other folks are welcome to contribute fixes too!
[18:19] <mfisch> ok
[18:19] <mfisch> are we holding this API change until then?
[18:19] <jono> cielak, that would be awesome
[18:19] <mfisch> if it gets stale due to other commits the merge will suck
[18:20] <jono> mfisch, I would like to get the API change done before cielak leaves if possible
[18:20] <jono> cielak, any chance you can review the API change today?
[18:20] <mfisch> agreed
[18:20] <jono> and then I will take a look and we can commit
[18:20] <cielak> jono: I'll do my best to
[18:20] <jono> thanks cie
[18:20] <jono> thanks cielak
[18:20] <cielak> I agree this MP has to be merged soon to avoid conflicts
[18:21] <jono> yeah, so if we all focus on this first I think this makes sense
[18:21] <mfisch> I'm flying out on Saturday and have a lot of stuff to do here, so I'll be limited availability this week too :(
[18:21] <jono> I want to dive deep on the viewer over the next week
[18:21] <jono> mfisch, np
[18:21] <mfisch> jono: the date-completed stuff is not in this merge
[18:21] <jono> if we can get these API changes finalized before you guys leave, I can focus on the viewer fine
[18:21] <jono> mfisch, ok
[18:21] <jono> we can change that later
[18:22] <jono> ok so I have one topic to discuss
[18:22] <jono> I would like to add some debugging tools in the daemon/client
[18:23] <jono> so when someone experiences a problem (e.g. the trophy not getting validated) we can ask them to run a command and it gives us all the data we need
[18:23] <mfisch> like an apport script?
[18:23] <jono> that kind of thing
[18:23] <jono> right now we often ask people to run through various steps
[18:23] <cielak> apport integration sounds quite cool
[18:24] <jono> I would just like to make the debugging experience easier for everyone involved
[18:24] <jono> any thoughts on how we do this?
[18:24] <jono> I have never written an apport script before
[18:25] <jono> would that mean someone can use: ubuntu-bug accomplishments-viewer ?
[18:25] <cielak> examining apport docs might be helpful to recognise what possibilities do we have
[18:25] <cielak> but   ubuntu-bug   would probably work
[18:25] <cielak> although
[18:26] <jono> that would be cool
[18:26] <cielak> I expect it would report bug in Ubuntu package, instead of our project :)
[18:26] <cielak> maybe this can be tuned up
[18:26] <jono> particularly someone can select the issue in the debug window
[18:26] <jono> e.g. my trophies were not validated
[18:27] <cielak> yay, that would provide an awesome experience
[18:27] <jono> indeed :-)
[18:27] <jono> what would be cool is if the following happens:
[18:28] <jono>  * someone files a bug that their trophies were not validated
[18:28] <jono>  * a script checks if they have an account on LP, checks the remove share, and posts the report to the bug
[18:28] <jono> so the entire debugging process is automated
[18:29] <cielak> hang on a second
[18:29] <cielak> why would it check for a LP account?
[18:29] <cielak> to see if the trophy should be awarded?
[18:29] <jono> I was presuming if the trophy that did not validate was an LP one
[18:29] <jono> yeah, so imagine this:
[18:30] <jono>  * the user expects his ubuntu-member trophy to be valdiated
[18:30] <cielak> oh, then this is very wrong
[18:30] <cielak> that means we include trophy scripts logic in our apport script
[18:30] <jono>  * it isnt, so he files a bug, and the apport script would check the remove share to see if the trophies are there, and check LP to see if he has an account
[18:30] <jono> cielak, no no
[18:30] <jono> I am just suggesting we explore methods of automating the debugging
[18:31] <jono> this is just an idea off the top of my head :-)
[18:31] <cielak> alright ;)
[18:31] <jono> I am just trying to think of areas in which we can avoid the IRC debugging sessions we sometimes need to have
[18:31] <jono> I dont think we should include trophy scripts in our debugging support :-)
[18:31] <cielak> yet the script could simply   ls   the trophies directory to give us an idea of what the user expects and what's not signed ;)
[18:31] <cielak> yeah ;)
[18:31] <jono> indeed
[18:32] <jono> cielak, I just wanted to present the mindset here of what we can do to make things easier for debugging
[18:32] <jono> we can maybe discuss this more when you guys return from your trips
[18:32] <cielak> okay ;)
[18:32] <jono> ok, so this is the plan so far:
[18:33] <jono>  * cielak is going to work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1033773 and try and review the API change MP before he heads out
[18:33] <jono>  * I will focus on viewer-related bugs while you guys are away and keep on top of MPs
[18:33] <jono>  * we will discuss the debugging approach when you guys get back
[18:33] <jono> sounds like a good plan :-)
[18:33] <cielak> yeah :)
[18:34] <jono> cool
[18:34] <jono> any other topics?
[18:34]  * cielak has one more
[18:34] <jono> \sure
[18:34] <cielak> something about the daemon again, but this time more like the UI design
[18:34] <cielak> one of the things we postponed for 0.3
[18:34] <cielak> what I mean is the main notification bubble
[18:35] <cielak> which says 'You have accomplished something!'
[18:35] <jono> right
[18:35] <cielak> I guess we may need to reword it
[18:35] <jono> oh yes
[18:35] <jono> what did we discuss last time?
[18:36] <cielak> not only it looks inconsistent with Ubuntu desktop, but it appears we're dealing with the syndrome of 'talking computer'
[18:36] <jono> yes
[18:36] <jono> any thoughts on a better string to use?
[18:36] <cielak> we discussed that since there is quite a lot of options available, we'll do it for 0.3 so that translators will have time to update their work
[18:36] <cielak> yeah, quite a lot
[18:37] <cielak> obviously this has to be an affirmative statement, with a feel of 'notification'
[18:37] <jono> maybe we can collate ideas on a wiki page
[18:37] <jono> to choose the best one
[18:38] <cielak> alright, I can put my thoughts together on a wiki page
[18:38] <jono> cool
[18:38] <jono> and maybe mail the list and we can review the options
[18:38]  * janos don't really see what's so wrong with 'You have accomplished something!' ...
[18:38] <cielak> alright!
[18:39] <jono> cielak, did you want to explain to janos your concerns here?
[18:39] <janos> jono cielak you can do later, that was just me wondering out loud
[18:40] <cielak> well, since I'll do it in the e-mail anyway, maybe you'll read them there ;)
[18:40] <jono> ok cool
[18:40] <janos> yup, no prob
[18:40] <jono> alrighty
[18:40] <jono> btw, janos, the web viewer seems to be working great for me
[18:41] <jono> has imbrandon contributed the new CSS yet?
[18:41] <janos> btw i noticed meetingology has a command # - action, maybe we could tag some actionable stuff from the above?
[18:41] <janos> good question, wondering if imbrandon is around...
[18:41] <jono> he might not be online now
[18:41] <jono> yeah, I need to learn meetingology more :-)
[18:41] <jono> ok cool, I guess we will wrap it
[18:42] <jono> thanks for joining the meeting folks!
[18:42] <jono> the road to 0.3 continues!
[18:42] <jono> thanks for all of your wonderful efforts!
[18:42] <cielak> thanks everyone :)
[18:42] <jono> #endmeeting
[18:42] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  9 18:42:35 2012 UTC.
[18:42] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-09-18.00.moin.txt
[18:42] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-09-18.00.html
[18:43] <janos> see ya, i'll be on the other chan
[18:55] <imbrandon> jono: i am