[15:00]  * skaet waves
[15:00] <roadmr> hello!
[15:00] <sil2100> Hello!
[15:00]  * smartboyhw waves
[15:00] <skaet> #startmeeting
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 10 15:00:37 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:00] <Riddell> hi
[15:01]  * stgraber waves
[15:01]  * smartboyhw waves
[15:01] <sil2100> Hi everyone
[15:01] <skaet> Agenda (and minute location):
[15:01] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-08-10
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Upcoming dates:
[15:01] <skaet> 12.10
[15:01] <phillw> o/
[15:01] <skaet>     2012/08/23: Quantal FeatureFreeze
[15:01] <gema> o/
[15:01] <skaet>     2012/09/06: 12.10 Beta 1
[15:01] <skaet> 12.04.1
[15:01] <skaet>     2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
[15:01] <skaet>     2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Work Items:
[15:01] <skaet> 2012/08/10 -  3010 (was 3001  (last  week):   We’ve gotten behind the trendline for some of the projects.    There are only 2 weeks left until FeatureFreeze, so getting us back on track would be appreciated.
[15:01] <skaet> Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Bugs:
[15:01] <skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[15:01] <skaet> 12.04.1: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/milestone-12.04.1.html
[15:01] <skaet> 12.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Weekly Status Received:
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001712.html - PS(Unity) - sil2001
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001713.html - Security - mdeslaur
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001714.html - Community Testing - balloons
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001715.html - Ubuntu One - joshuahoover
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001716.html - Kernel - ogasawara
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001717.html - Desktop - seb128
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001720.html - Edubuntu - stgraber
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001721.html - QA - gema
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001722.html - Linaro - fabo
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001723.html - Xubuntu - astraljava
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001724.html - Kubuntu - Riddell
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001725.html - Foundations - ogra_
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001727.html - Server - arosales
[15:02] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001729.html - HW Cert - roadmr
[15:02] <skaet> ?? - Ubuntu Studio - ScottL
[15:02] <skaet> ?? - Lubuntu - gilir
[15:02] <skaet> ..
[15:02] <skaet> #Questions and Comments
[15:02] <skaet> #topic Questions and Comments
[15:02] <phillw> o/
[15:02] <mdeslaur> o/
[15:03] <skaet> hello everyone.  :)
[15:03] <skaet> phillw do you have a question,  or just waving hello?
[15:03] <smartboyhw> He meant a question, he o/ed before.
[15:03] <phillw> skaet: a Question
[15:03] <skaet> go ahead phillw
[15:04] <phillw> what do you need from Lubuntu, you state no update.
[15:04] <phillw> If Julien is busy (and I know he is), I can possibly furnish it
[15:04] <skaet> phillw,  email status update to ubuntu-release mail list.
[15:04] <Riddell> phillw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda/TeamTemplate
[15:05] <skaet> look at the format of the other ones,   just want to know what work has been happening, and if there are blockers/dependencies you're waiting on from other teams (or if you're landing something that other teams may care about)
[15:05] <phillw> skaet: okies, he does fill one in each week at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ReleaseStatus/Quantal i
[15:05] <phillw> I'll have a look at the format and have a chat with Julien to ensure it gets filed.
[15:06] <skaet> phillw,  thanks.   Please mail a copy to the list though so others can look at it before meeting,  without having to remember separate paths.
[15:06] <skaet> ..
[15:07] <phillw> no worries, I will get it added to your template so you all have it.
[15:07] <skaet> goodness.  thanks!   ..?
[15:08] <skaet> phillw,  done?  ..?
[15:08]  * slangasek has a comment
[15:08] <phillw> done :)
[15:08] <skaet> coolio
[15:08] <skaet> go mdeslaur
[15:08]  * skaet will ask slangasek after
[15:08] <mdeslaur> hrm?
[15:09] <mdeslaur> oh, sorry, I was just waving hello
[15:09] <mdeslaur> ..
[15:09] <skaet> mdeslaur,  ah,  just a hello after the Q&C part started then...   ok,  skipping.
[15:09] <skaet> go slangasek
[15:09] <slangasek> skaet: I'm very concerned about bug #1017001
[15:09] <slangasek> for 12.04.1
[15:10] <slangasek> we have not been able to reproduce this bug under lab conditions, so although it's still milestoned, there's been no forward progress on resolution, and it's a quite bad LTS->LTS upgrade bug
[15:10] <slangasek> with bdmurray's help there've been some fixes to the apport handling that *should* let us capture better info the next time the issue hits a user
[15:11] <seb128> hey
[15:11] <slangasek> but we don't know how widespread it is going to turn out to be once we turn on LTS->LTS upgrades by default - it could be very spectacularly bad, or it could be a non-event
[15:11] <seb128> sorry, calendar integration is broken on my quantal, I missed the reminder
[15:12] <slangasek> skaet: so I would like to propose that, at the 12.04.1 release time, we *tentatively* turn on the LTS upgrades in meta-release, watch for new incoming traffic for a bit, and be prepared to revert meta-release if it turns out to be a problem... and only announce the point release after we've done this test
[15:13] <skaet> slangasek,  thanks for flagging.     Would it be possible to do this test when we hit final freeze?   since we shouldn't be changing after that,  and that would give us a window to react before the point release is announced?
[15:14] <gema>  since we
[15:14] <gema>                           shouldn't be changing after that,  and that would give us
[15:14] <gema> sorry, hit the wront button
[15:14] <slangasek> skaet: well, it's possible, but that means some random selection of our users will get a surprise update to 12.04 a week before the announced milestone release
[15:15] <skaet> slangasek,  we could announce it as a candidate?   and make it visible to minimize surprises?
[15:15] <slangasek> personally I think it would be better to wait until the scheduled date to flip the switch
[15:15] <stgraber> the alternative would be to release the point release at the announced date but saying that 12.04.1 upgrades will be made available to users over the coming days
[15:16] <slangasek> I don't see any way to actually message it as a candidate... the users are going to find out about it when their computer suddenly tells them a new version is available
[15:16] <stgraber> where we set the flag, wait a few hours, revert and then look for what bug traffic we got during the interval
[15:16] <gema> shouldn't we be warning them that they may hit problems?
[15:16] <skaet> slangasek,  stgraber,   ok,  that will be the plan then.   (was thinking an email to ubuntu-announce, but probably will cause more confusion than solve issue)
[15:17] <stgraber> gema: we certainly need to have the bug in the release notes, though as we were never able to reproduce it, we don't know exactly in what state the system is, so we don't know how to recover from it
[15:17] <slangasek> gema: it's a tradeoff.  We have a total of 6 reports of this upgrade failure, from an unknown number of early-adopter upgraders from lucid; we have no idea if they're representative of the larger userbase or even how the error happened, as we've tried and failed to reproduce the failure using apt-clone data
[15:18] <gema> stgraber:
[15:18] <gema> slangasek: ack
[15:19] <stgraber> I'm still hoping to hit that bug during my manual upgrades test, but out of the 20 or so I've done this week, it hasn't happened to me yet
[15:19] <slangasek> skaet: sorry, to be clear, which will be the plan?
[15:19] <stgraber> though I'm using clean and up to date 10.04.4 systems
[15:19] <skaet> slangasek,  we'll go with what you and stgraber recommend,   put a release note in place,  and make sure we have active monitoring after we flip the switch on release day.
[15:20] <slangasek> gema: the other issue is that thanks to the previous security issues that led to us scrubbing apt-clone attachments, there's a good chance we'll never be able to reproduce the bug until we get another report of it :/
[15:20] <slangasek> skaet: and hold off on the announcement until we've gathered the data?
[15:21] <slangasek> (which is what I'm recommending, but I don't think that's the same thing stgraber recommended :)
[15:21] <skaet> slangasek,  not sure I see the benefit of holding off on the announcement,  but let me review the notes and talk to you about it next week.
[15:21] <slangasek> ok
[15:21] <slangasek> yeah, we can iron out the details outside the meeting :)
[15:21] <stgraber> right, my recommendation was to publish the announcement for 12.04.1 as the media will be good but stating that upgrades will be progressively rolled out over the coming days. Letting us turn them on for a few hours, then off if we notice bug trafic
[15:22] <skaet> also want to make sure we have a good monitoring plan in place.   :)
[15:22] <gema> skaet: I will ask someone in the team to try to reproduce next week
[15:23] <gema> QA team, that is
[15:23] <skaet> #action skaet, slangasek, stgraber - determine announcement and monitoring plan for https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
[15:23] <meetingology> ACTION: skaet, slangasek, stgraber - determine announcement and monitoring plan for https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
[15:23] <skaet> thanks gema.   would appreciate that.
[15:23] <slangasek> gema: any help reproducing it is certainly appreciated, but I don't have high hopes that you'll succeed in reproducing it
[15:23] <gema> slangasek: we will at least try
[15:24] <skaet> ..
[15:25] <skaet> and since I don't see any more queued up o/,  will go into some of mine,  first of which is related ;)
[15:25] <skaet> gema,  is there anything showing up from the daily automated testing from precise that should be considered a blocker at this point,  and can’t be release noted?   (I agree that the left over files should be cleaned up,  but figure that they can be release noted).
[15:25]  * skaet didn't see anything in the report from this week, but wants to double check since we're getting close now.
[15:25] <ogra_> o/ ... /me has the general unpleasant compiz question for seb128 :)
[15:26] <gema> skaet: nothing so far
[15:26] <gema> skaet: will let you know as soon as we hit something like that
[15:26] <skaet> thanks gema.  :)
[15:26] <seb128> ogra_, lol, I've the usual reply for you :p
[15:26] <ogra_> :)
[15:27] <ogra_> ..
[15:27] <gema> skaet: just for the record, we are working on verifying 1029531, but I believe it is already fixed
[15:27] <gema> ..
[15:28] <stgraber> bug 1029531
[15:28] <skaet> based on discussion with stgraber this morning,  we'll switch to build from -updates on monday,  rather than today,  so if there's any surprises on the monday night runs,  please flag soonest.
[15:28] <skaet> ..
[15:29]  * skaet sees that ogra_ and seb128 have handled ogra_'s question out of band,  so....  continuing on.  ;)
[15:29] <seb128> he
[15:29] <seb128> heh
[15:29] <ogra_> *g*
[15:29] <seb128> ogra_, to give a more complete reply
[15:29] <seb128> they finally put the merge request for merging in trunk up today
[15:29] <seb128> so I hope it's really close
[15:30] <seb128> they consider it ready to be merged at least
[15:30] <seb128> so if no surprise next week...
[15:30] <seb128> ..
[15:30] <skaet> seb128,  The g-c-c patches are still blocked on taking a decision about llvmpipe.    where are you waiting on a decision about llvmpipe from - upstream?   likely to make before feature freeze?
[15:31] <ogra_> yay
[15:31] <seb128> that got decided
[15:31] <seb128> basically llvmpipe is the answer they hopped it to be
[15:31] <sil2100> From what I know we'll be trying to get the gsettings patches released tomorrow
[15:31] <seb128> so we are dropping unity-2d
[15:31] <seb128> and claiming that we stop supporting low end hardware
[15:31] <sil2100> s/tomorrow/next week
[15:31] <seb128> we will redirect those users to 12.04LTS probably
[15:32] <seb128> that's still being discussed
[15:32] <seb128> since that's quite a big shift
[15:32] <seb128> ..
[15:32] <ogra_> seb128, how much has that llvmpipe stuff been tested on arm ?
[15:32] <ogra_> (or on anything we ship)
[15:32] <seb128> ogra_, it doesn't work on arm
[15:32] <seb128> as said it's not a reply
[15:32] <ogra_> so whats my fallback on the arm images then ?
[15:33] <seb128> it's 3d driver or use 12.04LTS
[15:33] <seb128> ogra_, I though gles was working on the pandaboard?
[15:33] <ogra_> so i should ship 120.04 alongside on  arm ?
[15:33] <ogra_> no, it doesnt
[15:33] <seb128> :-(
[15:33] <ogra_> we cant ship the dirver
[15:33] <ogra_> it does once you have (like on an nvidia PC) installed the third party driver
[15:34] <ogra_> but there is only framebuffer X on first boot
[15:34] <seb128> "great"
[15:34] <balloons> There *was* a project that seems to have dried up to create an OSS driver for it
[15:34] <seb128> well, those questions are actively discussed between PS, Jason, Rick, etc atm
[15:34] <ogra_> thats the same for all arm platforms btw, all are like nvidia (even worse most of the time) wrt licensing
[15:34] <seb128> so I've no reply yet on what we will suggest for you
[15:35] <ogra_> would have been good to have an arm person involved ;)
[15:35] <ogra_> anyway, not your prob ..
[15:35] <ogra_> ..
[15:36] <skaet> seb128,  where will this end up getting documented,  since its going to be pretty visible?   (am thinking that the beta release notes at a minimum, but probably want something wider)
[15:36] <seb128> skaet, I will have responses to that we will have decisions on what we do exactly
[15:36] <seb128> it's an hot topic and still being actively discussed
[15:37] <seb128> I will let the release list and people know when we have a decision
[15:37] <skaet> seb128, fair enough.   :)   Thanks.
[15:37] <seb128> then we can figure where to announce it
[15:37] <seb128> yw
[15:37] <skaet> ..
[15:38] <skaet> balloons,  you asked are we tracking things that failed to make it into the previous milestone and marking them for the next milestone?   yes,  its one of the checklist steps for a release to work through all the milestoned bugs and retarget them to the next milestone.   A3 pass is still needs to be finished,  A1/A2 have been done.
[15:38] <balloons> skaet, thank you. I assumed so, I just hadn't seen it happen for a3 yet, so :-)
[15:39] <skaet> balloons,  :)  will be finished this afternoon.   Was working on 12.04.1 stuff.  ;)
[15:39] <skaet> ..
[15:40] <skaet> astraljava,  any smoke testing of 12.04.1 images been done?   if so,  any issues/concerns showing up?
[15:41] <astraljava> skaet: Some testing has happened, but I haven't compiled results thus far.
[15:41] <astraljava> I'll try to do so over the weekend, and report back.
[15:41] <astraljava> ..
[15:41] <skaet> Thanks astraljava :)
[15:41] <skaet> ..
[15:41]  * skaet looks around if anyone else has questions (o/)?
[15:42] <skaet> If not,   last comment is that some teams have burn down charts that are starting to look seriously behind.
[15:43] <skaet> Please mark the features that are clearly not going to make it in by feature freeze in 2 weeks.
[15:43] <seb128> skaet, stop looking at the foundation team :p
[15:44] <skaet> lol
[15:44] <seb128> joke aside I'm concerned that the upstart improvements we were said would land this cycle will not
[15:44]  * skaet was trying to be tactful,  but there are a few others as well...
[15:44] <seb128> it's somewhat a concern for desktop
[15:44]  * sil2100 hides
[15:44] <skaet> slangasek, ogra_ ^
[15:45]  * ogra_ thoght jodh just landed a bunch
[15:45] <ogra_> seb128, which are missing ?
[15:45] <seb128> ogra_, things discussed at UDS I didn't see yet
[15:45] <seb128> XDG_RUNTIME_SUPPORT
[15:45] <seb128> logind support
[15:46] <seb128> user session jobs
[15:46] <ogra_> oh
[15:46] <seb128> I guess some of those will not land this cycle
[15:46] <seb128> but having a status update would be good, we have work blocked on those
[15:46] <seb128> the XDG_RUNTIME_SUPPORT one is important
[15:46] <ogra_> ok if i get you one next meeting ?
[15:46] <seb128> dconf segfaults on NFS and ecryptfs regularly without it
[15:46] <ogra_> i need to collect info on that
[15:46] <seb128> it's one of the most common errors on e.u.c
[15:46] <seb128> ogra_, sure
[15:46] <seb128> ogra_, thanks
[15:47] <ogra_> thx, will update you as soon as i have it
[15:47] <ogra_> ..
[15:47] <skaet> seb128:  any update on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-desktop-greeter-lockscreen.html  ?
[15:47] <skaet> since we're going into specifics... ;)
[15:48] <seb128> skaet, I postponed it to next cycle
[15:48] <skaet> seb128, can you update the blueprints to reflect that.
[15:48] <seb128> yes
[15:48] <skaet> Thanks!
[15:48] <seb128> I updated https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-system-compositor
[15:49] <seb128> but forgot about the topic one
[15:49] <skaet> thanks seb128   :)
[15:49] <skaet> anyone else?
[15:49] <skaet> ..
[15:50] <skaet> #endmeeting
[15:50] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 10 15:50:03 2012 UTC.
[15:50] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-10-15.00.moin.txt
[15:50] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-10-15.00.html
[15:50] <arosales> thanks for chairing skaet
[15:50] <seb128> thanks skaet
[15:50] <mdeslaur> thanks skaet
[15:50] <sil2100> Thank you skaet
[15:50] <seb128> btw new unity stack just got uploaded for quantal
[15:50] <balloons> thanks skaet
[15:50] <seb128> it might be good to keep it in proposed for the W.E
[15:50] <seb128> to avoid any issue
[15:50]  * sil2100 agrees
[15:51] <skaet> Thanks seb128, ogra_, sil2000, roadmr, astraljava, arosales, balloons, gema, slangasek, stgraber, mdeslaur, phillw,  Riddell
[15:51] <stgraber> thanks!
[15:51] <skaet> seb128, sil2000  - agreed.
[15:52] <roadmr> thanks!
[15:52] <gema> thanks skaet for chairing
[15:52] <ogra_> thanks skaet