[10:33] <smartboyhw> Hi!
[14:24] <smartboyhw> Balloons: You here?
[14:26] <balloons> ping jibel
[14:26] <balloons> smartboyhw, didn't see your ping
[14:26] <balloons> :-)
[14:30] <smartboyhw> balloons: How to join https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa
[14:32] <smartboyhw> My question also applys to jibel
[14:32] <balloons> smartboyhw, if you'll notice, I'm ot a member :-)
[14:33] <smartboyhw> balloons: ... but phillw is one...
[14:33] <balloons> smartboyhw, the history of this is that QA was spread out across different teams, etc
[14:33] <balloons> I've been trying to consolidate and not have tons of lp teams
[14:33] <balloons> I didn't even realize this one existed
[14:33] <balloons> or have misplaced the knowledge
[14:35] <phillw> balloons: that makes two of us, it does have a mailing list!
[14:35] <phillw> *does NOT have*
[14:36] <smartboyhw> ... Get Jibel in here...
[14:45] <smartboyhw> phillw: You clearly forgot the meeting time yesterday...
[14:45] <phillw> smartboyhw: I did not. I also sent you an email. Have you read it?
[14:46] <smartboyhw> Yep. I'll be on Monday only now. Sorry
[14:46] <phillw> that's okay. I should be about on Monday. What time is good for you?
[14:46] <smartboyhw> 1300UTC. I have a Ubuntu Studio Meeting to go to.
[14:47] <phillw> that's good for me. 14:00 Local time.
[14:48] <smartboyhw> OK, then.
[14:49] <smartboyhw> How is the ISO Testing Cadence for you, phillw?
[14:49] <phillw> I'm not currently iso testing, been too busy with re-shuffling virtual machines for various teams that I host on my server.
[14:50] <phillw> I keep up with the lubuntu qa testing team. Things seem to be going well. Julien is aware of the couple of little bugs carried over from A3 and is committed to squishing them by Beta1 arrivwes.
[14:51] <smartboyhw> I keep up with the Ubuntu Studio Team.
[14:55] <phillw> hmm, there seems to be couple of the dreaded red bugs on the list... Good old Ubiquity :)
[14:56] <smartboyhw> ... Well, I only got a green bug
[14:57] <phillw> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds
[14:57]  * balloons is running the cadence results check
[14:58] <balloons> ohh.. I still need to do the wubi cd install tests!
[14:58]  * smartboyhw is waiting for balloons and also get to do more on Ubuntu Studio.
[14:59] <astraljava> smartboyhw: If you want to help Studio, do test the dailies. We don't have too many of the people who do.
[14:59] <smartboyhw> I did yesterday.
[14:59] <smartboyhw> Will do it tmr.
[15:00] <astraljava> Nice, did you post results on iso.qa.u.c?
[15:00] <smartboyhw> Uh oh, Quantal meeting now.
[15:53] <green_> hello
[15:53]  * smartboyhw waves at green_
[15:54] <green_> I want to join the QA team. Where should I start?
[15:54] <smartboyhw> Go to iso.qa.ubuntu.com, follow the testcases and report.
[15:55] <green_> well?
[15:55] <green_> what should I do next?
[15:55] <smartboyhw> Then join the meeting every wednesday 1400UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
[15:56] <green_> What should I know in order to contribute?
[15:56] <smartboyhw> Nothing!!!!!!!
[15:56] <smartboyhw> Just know how to install Ubuntu is surely quite enough.
[15:56] <smartboyhw> If not ask balloons!
[15:57] <green_> What would I be doing then?
[15:57] <balloons> green_, howdy :-)
[15:57] <balloons> there's some wiki pages here that might help you
[15:57] <green_> hello balloons!
[15:57] <balloons> one sec, I'll link you to them
[15:57] <smartboyhw> balloons: You help him, I still got issues to fix in Studio
[16:00] <phillw> hi green_ we're busily rewriting and moving stuff around to make life a little less daunthing for newcommers.
[16:00] <green_> okay
[16:00] <green_> cool :)
[16:01] <smartboyhw> phillw: Like!
[16:02] <phillw> green_: head over to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ and simply have a good explore. (Don't get freaked out by the glossary page, it  is there as a reference - you are not expected to learn it word for word!).
[16:02] <green_> thank you
[16:07] <balloons> ok yes, thanks phillw
[16:07] <balloons> I was still catching the tail end of my call
[16:08] <balloons> green_, so the most important thing to do is signup to the mailing list. Send an intro email to say hello. Then watch the list for announcements to join up in testing
[16:09] <balloons> depending on the type of testing being asked for, we can help you learn how to do it..
[16:09] <green_> So, I'll have to update for daily builds and things like that?
[16:09] <balloons> it's not hard at all.. once you've learned how to use the qatracker it's straightforward
[16:10] <green_> Also, can I contribute to both QA and BugSquad?
[16:10] <balloons> green_, here's an overview of all the testing stuff we do: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities
[16:10] <balloons> and yes, you most certainly can!
[16:10] <green_> thank you!
[16:11] <balloons> right now we're doing some calls for testing on the package tracker -- http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/. There's webapps testing, testing the 12.10 kernel on ubuntu precise, and some pulseaudio testing.
[16:11] <balloons> the other big pieces of testing we do invovles iso
[16:12] <balloons> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/.. this week we tested the quantal daily isos for the desktop images in particular
[16:12] <green_> So, on average how much time do I need to dedicate?
[16:12] <green_> every week?
[16:13] <balloons> green_, as much as you wish ;-) The most time sensitive testing is the iso testing. During a milestone week, being able to test for several hours over the course of a few days is really handy
[16:13] <balloons> we have 4 or 5 milestones through the 6 month cycle
[16:14] <phillw> green_: the important thing is not to burn yourself out. Don't overload yourself.
[16:14] <balloons> ^^
[16:14] <balloons> most of the time, the commitment is rather low. Testing the pulseaudio or webapps packages are 15-30 mins
[16:14] <balloons> one time
[16:14] <green_> And there would be wiki or manuals on how to start?
[16:15] <balloons> yes, if you wanted to test something today, you can help out on a call for testing
[16:15] <balloons> First, look over this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker
[16:15] <green_> okay :)
[16:15] <balloons> it will explain the qatracker, which is the tool we use to recieve tests and record our results
[16:16] <balloons> there are 2 walkthroughs (and video) linked off of that page
[16:16] <balloons> are you running precise or quantal at the moment?
[16:16] <green_> precise
[16:16] <balloons> ok, great
[16:17] <balloons> so let's have you try the 12.10 kernel on precise testing
[16:17] <green_> cool!
[16:18] <balloons> The url for that is here: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/223/builds
[16:18] <balloons> so read the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker page, then click the 'calls for testing' walkthrough link at the bottom
[16:19] <balloons> that should be everything you need to know :-)
[16:19] <balloons> but we're here.. please ping if you get stuck or lost.. I want to see how well the docs take you through it
[16:19] <green_> thank you again
[16:19] <phillw> green_: there are plenty of links from the main QA page. As I stated earlier, myself and balloons are busy integrating a 'one stop' page for newcommers. Whilst this page is a bit slanted to Lubuntu, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing, it does hold some more information which is getting moved onto the 'main' QA site. some of that background information has not been  carried over yet. It is quite a task to re-model an entire wiki area!
[16:20] <green_> got it.
[16:21] <phillw> balloons: I also got a link to  xubuntu testing which I will be having a good look at over the weekend :)
[16:21] <balloons> phillw, :-_)
[16:25] <phillw> balloons: for cadence results, can I use the history part of reporting lubuntu results to attempt to draw up something similar to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Cadence/Status as a learning passage for myself?
[16:26] <balloons> phillw, whoa.. I missed something in that sentence
[16:27] <phillw> balloons:  iso tracker can have history turned on, thus I can see what has been tested during cadence?
[16:27] <balloons> phillw, yes
[16:27] <balloons> but I can help you better
[16:27] <phillw> balloons: :D I'm all for that
[16:27] <balloons> the tracker has an API
[16:28] <balloons> so I'm creating that wiki page automatically using a script
[16:28] <phillw> okies, I'll leave that in your capable hands :)
[16:28] <balloons> if you wanted to track lubuntu a bit easier, I can share ways of making that happen
[16:28] <balloons> long term, we want the tracker updated to show this!
[16:29] <balloons> I consider it a quick fix to the problem.. but I want the site fixed
[16:29] <phillw> if you would, I'm all for learning stuff
[16:30] <phillw> balloons: hopefully you, st, and karl can develop something. Karl is very new to testing, so it will take a little while for him to come up to speed. But, he is very keen to help.
[16:30] <balloons> yes, did he email stgraber himself or no?
[16:31] <phillw> Not sure if he has as yet, I had a quick chat last night with st last night. I've offered a VM to the project if it is wanted. (I'm back to having 3 spare machines).
[16:32] <phillw> I'm pretty sure he would have cc'd us had he done
[16:34] <phillw> I know from my chat to st, he's really busy as the release team try pull back time for Q following the concentration on 12.04.1
[17:12] <phillw> balloons: when do you next expect to be able to schedule an hour chat?
[17:13] <balloons> phillw, what do you mean?
[17:13] <kanliot> hi there, just let me read the chat buffer
[17:17] <kanliot> nope haven't emailed him.  I suppose I will need instructions from him to build the testing tracker.
[17:19] <phillw> balloons: as a ten minute chat always over-runs, I want to ensure we have time to discuss a 10 minute thing :P
[17:19] <kanliot> why dont you use skype?
[17:20] <kanliot> or etc.
[17:20] <phillw> kanliot: coz we are busy editing wiki areas :)
[17:21] <kanliot> :) i don't believe ya.   maybe you have a nefarious reason for not using voice chat
[17:21] <phillw> he he
[17:28] <phillw> btw kanliot some of the stuff does cross boundaries. As the none flavour specific stuff from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing is moved to the central area. This follows the rules of less duplication and easier to update :)
[18:21] <balloons> phillw, i'll ping you in a bit
[18:22] <phillw> balloons: no worries :)
[18:35] <balloons> phillw, ping
[18:35] <balloons> kanliot, yes ping and/or email him
[18:35] <balloons> he's on rc
[18:35] <balloons> *irc
[18:36] <kanliot> ping stgraber
[18:36] <phillw> balloons: pong
[18:36] <balloons> phillw, so you wanted to chat? heh
[18:36] <balloons> I've been non-stop chatting most of today
[18:38] <phillw> balloons: it is not urgent, just a bit about the naming of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview as it seems that it is more a case of 'further information' for ISO testing, which is what it was orriginally written for?
[18:41] <balloons> phillw, you want to name it something else?
[18:41] <balloons> I'd still like a quick start page
[18:41] <balloons> quick start/overview/readme first
[18:41] <balloons> that's the idea
[18:42] <phillw> balloons: yes, as a 'quick start' or something, the overview is really our activities page?
[18:42] <balloons> the activties page should be just that.. a listing of everything we work on.
[18:42] <balloons> but it doesn't explain the how and why we work on it
[18:42] <balloons> that's what I envisioned the overview page to do
[18:43] <balloons> aka.. if I don't know what the team does really, looking at the iso testing entry on activities doesn't really help or make sense
[18:43] <phillw> indeed, so how do we move 'introduction' from the home page onto another one? It is a real pain to find the babalnce.
[18:43] <balloons> why and when would  do ths
[18:43] <balloons> ok, so we're on the same page, for this page
[18:43]  * balloons notes puns are fun
[18:44] <phillw> indeed.
[18:44] <phillw> let me just go have a look at L home page.
[18:44] <balloons> is there anyone about running quantal? I feel crazy, but i can't delete files from a mounted usb disk
[18:45] <balloons> lol -- locked
[18:46] <balloons> bad sd card.. the switch is loose
[18:47] <kanliot> going to go out for a bit, i'll send graber an email when i get back. bye
[18:47] <phillw> balloons: could it be added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO as an introduction, or is that going to be too hard to find?
[18:48] <balloons> phillw,  iwanted to introduce everythng, not just iso testing
[18:48] <balloons> currently I feel like pointing someone at our activities page isn't useful to them if they are new
[18:49] <balloons> they lack the background on the team, and the flow of when and why we test
[18:49] <phillw> indeed, and that is more an introductions to iso testing, which is a full subject in its own right.
[18:49] <balloons> exactly
[18:49] <balloons> and that intro should be on the ISO page, and in the walkthrough
[18:49] <balloons> but before you go down the road of I want to iso test, there needs to be a general knowledge transfer
[18:50] <phillw> those are my thoughts, we can add to the other ones as we get time.
[18:51] <phillw> I think that as ISO testing is probably the most important one - and one that we do have documentation for. I think it is a good introduction to QA
[18:52] <phillw> it does cover how the qa tracker is used, and as there is a desire to use qa-tracker for more things; I do think it is a good grounding for newcommers?
[18:54] <balloons> phillw, so are we on the same page?
[18:54] <balloons> we need that intro wiki page written up
[18:55] <balloons> As part of the intro, I think recommending doing an iso test or call for testing is a good start
[18:55] <phillw> I think so. Let me have a go by using it as an example of the stuff we do?
[18:56] <balloons> yes, please do.. I think the overview page s the place for it
[18:56] <balloons> we can rename it if needed.. that was my goal for the page
[18:56] <balloons> edit it away
[18:56] <balloons> I'm changng the start page a little bit
[18:57] <phillw> just having my dinner. I'll be on it shortly.
[19:32] <phillw> balloons: my 1st stab at it is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview/test
[19:33] <balloons> phillw, not bad
[19:33] <balloons> you should bring in mention of the unscheduled testing as well
[19:34] <balloons> aka, the calls for testing that start whenever the dev teams are ready
[19:34] <balloons> and thus, not on the master schedule
[19:34] <phillw> there is a rewrite to do for both https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/TheStages and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Milestones to get the best out them both and remove duplication.
[19:35] <phillw> Yes, I can add in ad-hoc, but that will most likely mean adding back in the ppa section that we had previously removed?
[19:37] <phillw> as the page has shrank (I've been fairly harsh in shrinking it down). Do we have room to add that section in, or should it remain as a seperate page?
[19:38] <balloons> shouldn't require adding back in the ppa piece.. well, I mean.. yes we should explain t
[19:38] <balloons> but no not in a lubuntu specfic way if possble
[19:38] <balloons> it's a fine line.. lol
[19:38] <phillw> As cadence is also not on there and needs to be added, maybe ad-hoc testing warrants its own page?
[19:38] <balloons> giving an overview but not giving a ton of detail
[19:38] <balloons> cadence is part of the schedule
[19:39] <balloons> along, it was ad-hoc'd in this time around
[19:39] <balloons> it needs to be scheduled properly, and treated as such
[19:39] <balloons> shouldn't be any different
[19:39] <phillw> balloons: go chose someones PPA and an application, I'll happily edit my existing ppa instructions :D
[19:39] <balloons> phillw :-)
[19:39] <balloons> I want to reflect that these calls for testing happen
[19:39] <balloons> and they have specific instructions
[19:39] <phillw> balloons: as we currently do have any reporting, I don't want to open a can of worms until we do?
[19:39] <balloons> I think  that's suffcent
[19:40] <balloons> since by definition it could change dependng on the testing
[19:40] <phillw> *do not have*
[19:40] <balloons> any reporting for?
[19:40] <phillw> reporting for cadence testing
[19:40] <phillw> except for your manual one for ubuntu.
[19:41] <balloons> let's just mention there is unscheduled testing, for example a  call for testing, and they wll be unscheduled and have specific instructions with how to test
[19:41] <balloons> sound good?
[19:41] <balloons> yes, off-milestone iso testing isn't reported well
[19:41] <phillw> yup :) any ideas on the slant of the merger between https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/TheStages and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Milestones ?
[19:42] <balloons> let's put that detail on the Testing/ISO page
[19:42] <phillw> ooh, there goes the 1st hour :P
[19:42] <balloons> the off-milestone iso testing
[19:43] <balloons> ok, ideas on the merger
[19:43] <balloons> let's see
[19:43] <balloons> I touched that page last
[19:43] <balloons> go ahead and just do a merge as you see it
[19:44] <balloons> then i'll come in after and see where we end up
[19:44] <balloons> sounds good?
[19:44] <balloons> we can debate specific points
[19:44] <phillw> the L one, was part of an introduction to newcommers, to let them know, with out scaring them - what can be expected.
[19:44] <balloons> but overall, daily, alpha, beta, final
[19:44] <balloons> yes you could define a milestone (or link it)
[19:44] <balloons> perhaps a small intro would be good
[19:47] <phillw> okies, let me have a 'play'.
[19:47] <balloons> hehe
[19:48] <phillw> I'll edit the L* one, so as not to damage anything on the wiki
[20:01] <phillw> balloons: please have a read through and edit of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/TheStages
[20:01] <balloons> k
[20:06] <balloons> looks good
[20:06] <balloons> I wonder about the VM piece however
[20:06] <balloons> perhaps we need a page on those? It seems silly, but they come up in different places
[20:07] <balloons> talking about them on the page is on topic, but defining them is a bit offtopic
[20:08] <phillw> the VM is to be moved, once the new VM page is up and running. you were doing some stuff on that?
[20:08] <phillw> I would be looking to remove it from the page and moved to a page of its own.
[20:11] <phillw> that one currently has the link to quemu which is the bigger hope for ppc and ARM processors.
[20:13] <phillw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VMwarePlayerAndQemu last updated 2008, so it does need a re-vamp!
[20:14] <phillw> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/QemuEmulator does seem a lot more recent :)
[20:16] <balloons> yea
[20:16] <balloons> we don't have good info there
[20:16] <balloons> ok, well, I suppose that works
[20:17] <phillw> I can look to get https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/QemuEmulator up to date so as to include the ppc systems, if soemone can do the same for ARM?
[20:18] <phillw> the other VMs that are mentioned can be linked to.
[20:31] <balloons> hmm
[20:48] <phillw> balloons: can we start with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualMachines and then battle on? That looks a good page to point to as an index?
[20:49] <balloons> phillw,
[20:49] <balloons> we do have some vbox pages
[20:49] <balloons> somewhere :-)
[20:49] <phillw> I'll point to it on L, and leave the ppc specific stuff in, but copy the remainder to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Milestones If you are in agreement?
[20:50] <phillw> balloons: well, they need to be pointed to by https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualMachines which does look a well put together page that covers the options.
[20:50] <balloons> phillw, k
[20:50] <balloons> and yes
[20:51] <balloons> let me find the vbox pages
[20:51] <phillw> Do you want me to transfer over the 'thanks for reading so far bit', or not transfer it?
[20:52] <phillw> the L version was designed to welcome people - Not sure the views on 'official' area.
[21:19] <phillw> balloons: Final draft (couple of internal links to change when copying). https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/TheStages  Is it good to go onto https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Milestones ?
[21:21] <balloons> looks good
[21:22] <phillw> you can take your time & fine tune it as you get the time. Main thing was to get it there :)
[21:22] <phillw> How did your headache of the front page comealong?
[21:22] <balloons> keeps lookng better and better
[21:33] <phillw> balloons: transferred to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Milestones That's the the best I can do re: cadence testing. Please do go and tidy up any typos etc!
[21:34] <balloons> indeed!
[21:34] <balloons> ohh
[21:34] <balloons> lol
[21:34] <balloons> I forget the cc again
[21:34] <balloons> hahah
[21:36] <balloons> tidying now
[21:36] <balloons> can you cc for me?
[21:36] <phillw> yeah, will do.
[21:37] <phillw> also just tidying up some stuff on the source page that I did not spot until I did the transfer! I'll let you do the clean up & then just cheat and copy it back :D
[21:39] <balloons> k - I fixed the typos, etc
[21:40] <balloons> k -- so let's look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview one last time
[21:40] <balloons> haha
[21:40] <balloons> Let me add the unscheduled testing piece
[21:41] <balloons> then we'll let it sit and come back to it again later
[21:44] <balloons> k
[21:44] <balloons> whew
[21:44] <balloons> fun fun phillw
[21:44] <balloons> good work mate
[21:54] <phillw> of, small hairy spherical objects... i forgot that one!
[21:58] <phillw> I've also had a think of ppa testing, I'll post it up shortly.
[21:59] <phillw> warning, it involves mention of the Klingon language :)
[22:53] <phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/PPA_Testing do you want me to still use lxinput & the lx/staging area, or should I change it to application and ppaxyz?
[23:02] <balloons> phillw, umm whatever is fine
[23:07] <phillw> balloons: which do you prefer? a theoretical example or a real one? We can always edit it later! I'm just trying to get stuff useful for newcommers on the area.
[23:07] <balloons> rght
[23:07] <balloons> umm.. things could change
[23:07] <balloons> agnostic is better I suppose
[23:14] <phillw> i'll go make it agnostic
[23:18] <phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/PPA_Testing