[11:20] <green_> hello
[11:23] <green7> hello
[11:25] <sagaci> hello green7
[11:28] <green7> I have a question regarding application testing
[12:27] <green7> I have a question regarding application testing
[12:45] <green7> hello
[12:56] <green7> hi!
[13:09] <green7> hi
[13:36] <green7> hello
[13:46] <smartboyhw> Hi!
[13:48] <green7> hello
[13:49]  * smartboyhw waves at green7.
[13:49] <green7> I need some information regarding the application testing.
[13:50] <smartboyhw> OK.
[13:52] <green7> To test the applications, should I install the packages in a virtual machine or on my machine? I think new packages might break the system.
[13:53] <smartboyhw> green7: Most recommendable on VMs, including TestDrive.
[13:54] <green7> okay
[13:55] <green7> Also, in a nutshell, what am I supposed to do as  a member of BugSquad?
[13:56] <smartboyhw> green7: If you find a bug please report it.
[13:57] <green7> okay
[16:31] <phillw> hi green7 the source of infinite knowledge on bugs can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase
[17:09] <green7> thank you phillw!
[17:12] <phillw> I'm still unpicking the links that head back to Lubuntu-QA from the work myself and balloons are doing... Drat... just found another one :/
[17:12] <phillw> sure enough, it is for bug reporting!
[17:15] <green7> :)
[17:36] <green7> what is launchpad staging?
[17:55] <green7> what is 5-a-daying?
[17:56] <phillw> green7: for the bug squad, 5 a day means looking at 5 new bugs each day and checking they have all the information needed / are not duplicates etc.
[17:57] <green7> okay
[17:58] <phillw> launchpad staging is, afik, where a test application is added up to launchpad to be tested before being accepted into the main area.
[18:02] <green7> got it!
[18:03] <phillw> green7: yes lp staging is indeed that. I've just re-written the ppa testing page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/PPA_Testing just waiting to work with balloons as to where to slot it in.
[18:07] <green7> :)
[18:12] <phillw> green7: does that page explain sufficiently for you?
[18:13] <green7> yes! Both, the KnowledgeBase and PPA_Testing pages are comprehensive.
[18:16] <phillw> good, it is important to get people new to these areas to give us input as to how the pages are. If you find pages that are confusing etc. please, please do let myself and nicholas know so that we can look into them.
[18:18] <green7> I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage/ confusing. It explains Apport but not clearly. I think the first transcript in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase is better to provide introduction to the new comers.
[18:19] <phillw> which one on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase do you prefer?
[18:20] <green7> The first one, by Brian Murray. It also explains how to read/write simple Apport hooks.
[18:22] <phillw> green7: so which area of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage/ needs an overhaul to use the lesson?
[18:24] <green7> I think the section "Apport Reports" should be extended to include more about hooks, and how it actually works, before getting into CoreDump and things.
[18:25] <green7> Also, not everyone knows about core dumps and stack traces, so a link or some explanation should be provided.
[18:29] <phillw> green7: do please pass on your experience and observations to brian@ubuntu.com , he is also present on this channel but may be away from his computer. Like everyone else in testing / release etc. he does not bite :)
[18:30] <green7> All right, I'll mail him. :D
[18:31] <phillw> green7: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Contacts has the full list.
[18:31] <green7> thank you!
[18:32] <phillw> kanliot: has also recently started bug triaging, he's also a nice guy and is around quite often,
[18:32] <kanliot>  a matter of opinion
[18:33] <phillw> My apologies that most of my links etc. are Lubuntu based, I'm the admin for the Lubuntu-QA team and so know those people best :)
[18:33] <phillw> kanliot: did you get the car sorted?
[18:34]  * green7 waves
[18:40] <kanliot> uh nope,
[18:40] <kanliot> it actually starts most of the time
[18:41] <kanliot> i was wondering you said devs were marking bugs to be retested immediately...
[18:41] <kanliot> like next day
[18:41] <kanliot> well i guess it's not my responsibility, but i was curious about that incident
[18:41] <phillw> kanliot: not to my knowledge. what is however the current problem is that bugs are wiped clean at each respin.
[18:42] <kanliot> what's a respin?  dailies or cadence cycle?
[18:42] <phillw> so, a bug reported on 10th August will not be visible on 11th August.
[18:42] <green7> Hey, if someone files bugs for some third-party packages, what should a triager do?
[18:42] <phillw> the respins are carried out on a cron job, they are the dailies.
[18:43] <kanliot> ok simple enough
[18:43] <kanliot> pardon me i have to run
[18:43] <phillw> at present when a milestone is planned, the cron is turned off. Thus the bugs do not get setroyed.
[18:43] <phillw> kanliot: np - catch you later.
[18:43] <phillw> *destroyed*
[18:45] <green7> phillw: if someone files bugs for some third-party packages, what should a triager do?
[18:46] <phillw> as in a package not maintained by ubuntu?
[18:46] <green7> yes
[18:46] <green7> and how to confirm whether certain package is maintained by Ubuntu?
[18:48] <phillw> That's one I cannot fully answer, I'd have to go ask :)
[18:49] <phillw> green7: pop over to #ubuntu-bugs they are the bug specialists, I know enough to get by :)
[18:49] <green7> no problem
[18:49] <phillw> I'd hate to give incorrect information.
[18:49] <green7> you've already taught me more than enough :D
[18:51] <phillw> I'm a the dictionary definition of a technician.... knowledge of many systems, master of none :) Or, as I prefer to call myself, a librarian... I may not know the subject, but I can ferret out the information for the questioner :)
[18:53] <green7> in practical world, that is often very useful!
[18:57] <phillw> a black belt in google-fu is handy :)
[19:02] <phillw> green7: http://www.googleguide.com/ is a useful resource :)
[19:03] <green7> seems good
[19:04] <phillw> he he, I've just found out that they phased out + .... something new learned!
[19:05] <green7> hmmm, I feel good after learning something useful :D
[19:08] <green7> can you tell me something about cadence cycle?
[19:10] <phillw> green7: not a great deal. It is still new to me. we don't have an automated system of collecting results yet. Basically, when it comes fully on-line, we will dispense with alpha and beta milestones. they will be replaced with 2 weekly testing cycles. It's still a young idea and much work is still to be done to bring it to fruition.
[19:12] <green7> hmm
[19:15] <phillw> Karl has been  asked to help out with the reporting of it. There is a lot of work to do, and the final version may well evolve over time.
[19:16] <green7> okay
[19:20] <phillw> Karl knows drupal, so is now on a crash course of QA. As he is already a bug triager he is familiar with QA.
[19:21] <green7> cool
[19:21] <green7> I'm currently a student
[19:21] <phillw> a lot of the testers are.
[19:21] <green7> just wanted to have some experience
[19:21] <green7> of real world :P
[19:23] <phillw> there are so many areas of the F/OSS world, take your time and choose the areas you want to learn more about. I'm biased, I do think that QA are the underated stars of ubuntu.
[19:24] <phillw> the devs make things, we ensure that we break them to keep them busy :P
[19:25] <green7> Yeah, QA is important. I guess MS/Apple understand it very well.
[19:26] <phillw> well, for apple maybe.... but for some of the MS releases, I do question it. Think ME, Vista ... releases better forgotten about.
[19:27] <green7> I think of Vista as the beta release of 7.
[19:28] <phillw> A few releases ago, a zero day show stopping bug was found for ubuntu. The devs gathered together to celebrate launch day were instead put to work to fix it.
[19:28] <green7> :D
[19:28] <green7> so are you a developer too?
[19:28] <phillw> Further back, a release was a few days late because the decision was made to pull it and correct an issue.
[19:29] <phillw> green7: nope, As it states on the PPA page... I know dev-speak about as well as I do Klingon :P
[19:30] <phillw> I can follow them for a couple of minutes, but once they get all code & technical - I'm out of my depth!
[19:30] <green7> :D
[19:32] <green7> I wanted to be in the developing team, but then I thought maybe I'd have lots of code to write, and also, I was not familiar with anything
[19:32] <green7> So, I decided to start with QA and triaging.
[19:34] <phillw> It is a good way to start, you will be in contact with devs so will learn their language.
[19:35] <phillw> for the SII team, I'm an admin, people have joined that team and then found the areas that most excite them.
[19:36] <phillw> My training is in server admin, I've leaned QA stuff gradually :)
[19:36] <green7> what does SII team do?
[19:37] <phillw> http://thesii.org/
[19:38] <phillw> http://thesii.org/purpose.php describes it better
[19:39] <green7> this is awesome!
[19:40] <green7> It's not available right now, is it?
[19:41] <phillw> speech control has just gone beta.
[19:41] <green7> will it be available for free, and will it support all linux distributions?
[19:42] <phillw> yes, it is the rule for SII. all stuff is released under GPL
[19:43] <green7> who all can test the beta version?
[19:43] <phillw> anyone can
[19:44] <green7> Do we need to add some repository?
[19:44] <phillw> http://thesii.org/wiki/SpeechControl
[19:45] <green7> I don't think many people know of this
[19:47] <phillw> We have not officially released the test version yet.
[19:47] <phillw> feel free to pop onto #sii The Institute is currently logged on.
[19:48] <phillw> *The head of*
[19:48] <green7> Can I put this conversation on the Internet, just to let people know? They would love to check it out.
[19:48] <phillw> pop over to #sii and have a chat.
[20:23] <Guest8962> hi