[06:23] <LLStarks> did ricotz break gtk3?
[07:24] <stlsaint> is anyone having issue with sources.list duplicate entries in alpha3?
[12:17] <Q-FUNK> howdy!  has anyone ever resolved the issue of upgrading 'dbus' inside a chroot?  it tries to connect to an upstart socket that obviously doesn't exist there...
[12:23] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[12:26] <albert23> Q-FUNK: you could use a /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d to prevent starting/stopping daemons
[12:27] <Q-FUNK> albert23: would you happen to have a URL to instructions for that?
[12:28] <albert23> Q-FUNK: this is what is used in pbuilder: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1142904/
[12:29] <albert23> man invoke-rc.d describes it
[12:29] <Q-FUNK> ok
[12:35] <Q-FUNK> albert23: right.  it at least allows the packages to confgure succesfully. the warning about being unable to connect to dbus still appears, though, but it at least allows filing a bug.
[12:41] <Q-FUNK> albert23: thanks for this.  it at least allows the chroot to complete the installation of packages.
[15:59] <ls612> I am thinking of dual-booting W7 and Ubuntu 12.10 alpha 3, (12.04 isn't compatable with my hardware), but I would like to know if there are any known bugs with the alpha that could harm my W7 stuff.
[16:03] <wilee-nilee> ls612, what problems have you heard that a ubuntu install would have that would harm a MS set up
[16:03] <penguin42> ls612: It is an alpha, so in principal there may be bugs that do nasty things; (for example very occasionally installer bugs that break other OSs)
[16:04] <ls612> I haven't heard of any specifically, but I know that odd things can happen with alphas, and I figured it couldn't hurt to ask someone more knowledgable than myself.
[16:04] <penguin42> ls612: Of course these things happen - and you've got a backup - right?
[16:04] <ls612> Yeah.
[16:05] <penguin42> well, there you go - as long as you can recover in the unlikely event it does nuke your windows install
[16:05] <ls612> OK, thanks.
[16:05] <wilee-nilee> ls612, good job being backed up. ;)
[16:08] <wilee-nilee> penguin42, It is always good I suppose to consider all possibilities, I install manually always so I had to wonder.
[16:10] <penguin42> wilee-nilee: Never underestimate the possibility of an upset alpha release
[16:10] <wilee-nilee> hehe I suppose so I would not use it as a main setup penguin42
[16:11] <wilee-nilee> be backed up is the insurance always.
[16:16] <hd1> i just upgraded the kernel to 3.5.0-9, and it no longer finds any ethernet devices other than lo0 :(
[16:21] <penguin42> hd1: best to file a bug, I guess it works if you back the kernel off one version?
[16:21] <penguin42> hd1: It would be to capture a dmesg from the failed boot and add that to the bug report
[16:30] <hd1> penguin42: the secondary issue is that i seem to have removed the old package :p
[16:30] <penguin42> hd1: Well just download....
[16:31] <penguin42> hd1: If you download the package and copy it over using a USB stick you should be able to install it with dpkg -i
[16:31] <penguin42> you'll probably need a few
[16:43] <hd1> penguin42: trying -- where would the stick be mounted though?
[16:44] <penguin42> hd1: Well have you got the desktop up?
[16:44] <penguin42> hd1: It should land somewhere under /media
[16:48] <hd1> no
[16:48] <hd1> this is all from command line
[16:49] <penguin42> ok
[16:49] <penguin42> hd1: So put it in, it'll probably land as /dev/sdb1 - when you should plug it in you'll probably get some messages like sd 9:0:0:0: [sdd] 16328704 512-byte logical blocks: (8.36 GB/7.78 GiB)
[16:50] <penguin42> that says it's sdd1
[16:50] <penguin42> then udisks --mount /dev/sdd1  should mount it
[16:51] <ls612> Well, it seems that my hardware isn't compatible with 12.10 either. :(
[16:51] <ls612> I can't connect to the internet with that either.
[16:51] <penguin42> ls612: does it show up in network manager?
[16:52] <ls612> My Ethernet controller is an Atheros AR8161/8165
[16:52] <ls612> and No, it doesn't show up in the network manager.
[16:52] <ls612> atleast running live it doesn't
[16:52] <penguin42> hd1: Any idea what your ether chip is?
[16:55] <TJ-> ls612: this may help you http://askubuntu.com/questions/165192/how-to-install-drivers-for-the-atheros-ar8161-ethernet-controller
[16:56] <ls612> TJ-: It's kinda hard to download driver software without an internet connection. :)
[16:56] <penguin42> TJ-: Hmm bug 927782 suggests that's fixed - hmm
[16:57] <ls612> penguin42: well, I can say that it is not fixed for me.
[16:57] <TJ-> ls612: You have one now, use it... you can build the driver on a different PC as long as the arch (64 or 32 bit) is the same
[16:57] <ls612> TJ-: OK
[16:57] <TJ-> ls612: which ISO image (and date) are you using?
[16:58] <ls612> The alpha 3, 64 bit.
[17:00] <TJ-> ls612: Looks like you need to install the OS, then on your other PC download the amd64.deb and move it to the networkless PC using a USB stick ir similar, then install it using "sudo dpkg -i ..."
[17:00] <TJ-> ls612: here's the link: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/amd64/linux-backports-modules-cw-3.4-3.2.0-29-generic/3.2.0-29.14
[17:01] <ls612> TJ-: When will the driver for this get included in the kernel?
[17:03] <TJ-> ls612: The alx driver is in that backports package, that will usually remain the way of bringing newer drivers from more recent kernel versions to earlier ubuntu releases
[17:04] <TJ-> ls612: Once you have it working on the PC itself, you can enable the precise-backports repository in Software Sources
[17:05] <ls612> Hm. when will this be included with ubuntu, without backporting? I really don't want to get complicated.
[17:09] <TJ-> It's not complicated. Once the backports repo is added it stays up to date
[17:10] <ls612> Will this be included with the Quantal stable release?
[17:11] <TJ-> That's for Precise of course... anything in backports will by definition be available in the quantal kernel updates
[17:11] <TJ-> sorry - I thought I was in the -1 room :D
[17:13] <ls612> Well, it isn't in Quantal Alpha 3, so when will it be in?
[17:29] <ls612> Does anyone know when support for my ethernet adapter will be in Quantal?
[17:30] <penguin42> TJ-: It's possible that bug needs reopening - I mean I wouldn't expect it to be fix released and lost from the alpha
[17:34] <TJ-> penguin42: I'm not clear they're actually included it in the kernel images
[17:34] <penguin42> TJ-: Why wouldn't they?
[17:38] <hd1> ok... i got the bloody thing restored, thanks penguin42
[17:38] <TJ-> mainline is refusing to accept the alx driver from Qualcomm; wants them to fix the existing in-kernel drivers instead. So it isn't going to enter the mainline kernel any time soon... and QCA appear to be changing it drastically to try to meet the kernel dev demands
[17:38] <penguin42> gah, I'd hoped he would tell us which card he had
[17:38] <penguin42> TJ-: But Ubuntu tend to add some non-upstream'd drivers into the build for common stuff
[17:39] <TJ-> Indeed we do, just that if the driver is in such turmoil its not something we want to have to endless track if its a major WIP right now
[17:39] <penguin42> shrug, it would seem better to include something for a common chipset rather than leaving people dead in the water
[17:40] <TJ-> Not if it conflicts with the atl1 driver in-kernel as it currently does
[17:41] <penguin42> ah - you mean you end up with it breaking other versions of the chips - yeh that sucks
[17:41] <TJ-> The problem is, Qualcomm write alx to replace the atl1 and support new devices, instead of adding the support to the existing driver in-kernel
[17:41] <TJ-> no, even worse, alx would conflict with atl1
[17:41] <TJ-> both would claim to support the same device PCI IDs
[17:42] <penguin42> can they both build in the same tree?  It's not been too unusual to have two drivers that support the same PCI ID
[17:44] <TJ-> I don't see it in the Quantal kernel source; I've just git pulled the latest and don't see the alx driver
[17:44] <ls612> So does this mean that my hardware won't be receiving linux support? :(
[17:45] <TJ-> From what I can tell, it depends on Qualcomm behaving themselves
[17:47] <penguin42> TJ-: IMHO relying on that sounds like a bad idea, and it sounds better that someone builds a version to build both at the same time
[17:48] <TJ-> Why? It's Qualcomm's code and their responsibility. We had all this with Broadcom for 10 years and now, finally, they're working with the kernel devs since they want their hardware supported. Maybe Qualcomm have got to learn the same lesson
[17:48] <penguin42> TJ-: It doesn't help our users even if they're vendors are naff
[17:49] <TJ-> That isn't our problem though... it is the hardware vendors responsibility. They know what it takes, and its not complicated to do it the correct way
[17:50] <penguin42> TJ-: I don't disagree that they should do it, but in the end I'd say it's a distros responsibility to frig it for their users if there is a fix and the hardware vendors aren't being good
[17:50] <TJ-> Not when it comes to hardware! We don't have the documentation, no tech specs, and no resources to do that kind of work!
[17:51] <TJ-> It's not like packaging some application
[17:51] <penguin42> TJ-: But you don't need to, you just need to build their driver
[17:51] <penguin42> TJ-: If they've released a working albeit bad driver then it's not that hard to build it and only enable it for some IDs
[17:52] <TJ-> No, we have to carry patches to prevent it conflicting with other drivers in the kernel, and as it is a WIP that means constantly having to track what they're doing... once they get it in order and into staging or linux-next then we have something we can rely
[17:53] <TJ-> We are building it/shipping it - for Precise, but its not in the kernel images its outside
[17:53] <penguin42> TJ-: I'm not disagreeing that we'd have to carry patches and keep frigging it; but in terms of non-techy users being able to get their machine to work it's a necessary evil
[17:55]  * penguin42 runs a debian-installer test in a quantal kvm guest; very odd behaviour - very slow 'erasing data' on virtual disk; I'm seeing load average on the host of ~12 - very odd
[17:55] <penguin42> but mostly idle
[17:59] <TJ-> This is about the ALX:  http://askubuntu.com/questions/167621/how-do-i-deactivate-at1lc-driver-after-install-of-alx-driver-replacement
[17:59] <TJ-> penguin42: sounds like it's I/O bound ?
[18:00] <trism> seems they recently resubmitted a few days ago too, with only the new devices that aren't in al1lc in alx: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/8/8/635
[18:00] <penguin42> TJ-: Yeh, but the KVM is on my spinny disk and the rest of the system is running off my SSD; so I could understand a load average of 1 or 2 for the KVM, but not 13
[18:00] <TJ-> trism: Yes, they've finally got the message
[18:00] <TJ-> penguin42: run iotop maybe?
[18:00] <penguin42> TJ-: Not sure, there was a very snotty message from Dave Miller on G+ saying they hadn't got it
[18:01] <TJ-> They're trying... its hard for proprietary companies to grok the kernel development style
[18:02] <penguin42> nod
[18:02] <penguin42> hmm - it looks like it's KVM threads - iotop is showing loads of kvm threads
[18:03] <penguin42> it looks like ~20 threads fighting over IO doing about 200KB/s each
[18:04] <TJ-> multi-threading gone haywire?
[18:04] <penguin42> yeh, I know a tame KVM dev to ask tomorrow
[18:31] <penguin42> right, bug 1035921 reported for that
[18:39] <penguin42> ok, that's using stupid numbers of threads - during the 'installing the base system' it's using 68
[18:43] <Daekdroom> !daily
[18:54] <ls612> penguin42: regarding my issues with Ubuntu and the internet, I found that when I installed Ubuntu on a VM that the internet worked just fine. Is that expected?
[18:55] <penguin42> ls612: If it's a problem with a driver for your hardware yes
[18:55] <penguin42> ls612: The VM doesn't see the real hardware
[18:55] <ls612> OK, that will be my short-term solution then, until the issues with the driver get figured out.
[19:40] <Walther> Does anyone else find themselves unable to use ftp on Nautilus?
[19:40] <Walther> "underlying ssh process died"
[19:40] <Walther> ...this is a *big* issue for me, as I do web design -.-'
[19:41] <Walther> the error appears only when you're trying to send / create files
[19:45] <Walther> interesting, i'm unable to transfer even using filezilla
[19:46] <Walther> it manages to *create* the file, but it remains as 0B
[19:56] <Walther> Any ideas?
[20:44] <Walther> Any ideas?
[20:44] <Walther> I need to get this problem resolved
[20:44] <Walther> Internal error: The underlying ssh process died
[20:45] <Walther> when trying to copy a file to an ftp location in Nautilus
[20:50] <Debolaz> Walther: My gut feeling based on what you've said so far is that you have a firewall issue, and that FTP isn't able to connect with its data port.
[20:50] <Debolaz> Walther: That's really just a guess though.
[20:51] <Walther> Debolaz: the funny thing is that it used to work
[20:51] <Walther> ftp/sftp, nautilus, filezilla
[20:53] <trism> Walther: I ran into bug 1034660 when testing a moment ago, but otherwise I could read and write successfully, maybe a server side issue?
[20:53] <Walther> Also, what kind of a firewall issue could I have, as I've not installed/configured any firewalls on my own
[20:54] <edgy> hi, I updated the system and rebooted and now cannot log in
[20:54] <edgy> I get the display manager, Enter user/pass, get in and quickly logged off
[20:55] <edgy> any one see this problem?
[20:55] <edgy> I tried kubuntu,ubuntu,xfce all the same issue
[20:55] <Galvatron> Then it's omething with X
[20:56] <Galvatron> What GPU?
[20:56] <trism> edgy: change to another vt (ctrl+alt+f1, f2, whatever), and paste: ls -l ~/.Xauthority;
[20:59] <edgy> Galvatron: nvidai, trism: ok just seconds
[20:59] <edgy> trism: shall I pastebin my .Xauthoriy? does it contain any sensitive data?
[21:00] <edgy> trism: my X log is at paste.ubuntu.com/1143705
[21:01] <trism> edgy: I don't want the contents, just the owner
[21:03] <trism> edgy: I've seen several times where somehow users get the file overwritten by root, and removing the file usually fixes the problem
[21:04] <edgy> trism: I removed the file now and retried to login but same problem
[21:05] <trism> edgy: can you pastebin /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log?
[21:05] <trism> edgy: you might want to check syslog/kern.log as well to see if there is a nvidia error
[21:07] <trism> edgy: although in that case, usually lightdm won't load at all, so ~/.xsession-errors might be another useful place to look
[21:07] <edgy> trism: paste.ubuntu.com/1143721
[21:12] <trism> edgy: hmm, the plasma session there is aborting after about 40 seconds
[21:21] <edgy> less
[21:21] <edgy> trism: .xsession gives some IO errors
[21:22] <edgy> trism: let me pastebin it too
[21:25] <edgy> trism: paste.ubuntu.com/1143754
[21:25] <edgy> trism: there is a fatal IO error related to bluetooth applet
[21:27] <edgy> trism: I would remove blueman and retry
[21:29] <edgy> trism: that didn't help
[21:30] <edgy> trism: what's this fatal IO error? I am chatting from console and cannot google it
[21:34] <edgy> trism: any hint?
[21:35] <trism> edgy: it just means the xserver died, without really giving any info why
[21:35] <trism> edgy: if you create a new user, can they log in?
[21:38] <edgy> trism: let me try
[21:45] <edgy> trism: same problem with the guest account and a new account
[21:45] <edgy>  I need my system back eheheheh
[21:47] <trism> edgy: did you just do the update today?
[21:47] <trism> edgy: might be interesting to see what packages were updated at the end of /var/log/apt/history.log
[21:48] <edgy> trism: yes, it's working very well today till I rebooted, and the only thing I see is the update
[21:48] <edgy> trism: they are xserver-xorg packages mainly
[21:49] <trism> edgy: apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-core
[21:50] <trism> edgy: do you have -proposed enabled?
[21:51] <edgy> trism: paste.ubuntu.com/1143799
[21:52] <edgy> trism: seems yes I have proposed enabled
[21:52] <edgy> trism: now I feel there is some hope
[21:52] <trism> edgy: bug 1033533
[21:52] <trism> edgy: looks like the one
[21:53] <edgy> trism: I cannot read the thread now, I just commented the proposed lines in sources.lst how can i revert back?
[21:54] <edgy> trism: i know how to do it from GUI ;)
[21:56] <trism> edgy: I don't know of an automatic way to remove them all (unless ppa-purge can handle -proposed?), you could try: sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-core=2:1.12.1.902-1ubuntu1; but it may complain about other deps, so you may need to downgrade several packages at once
[21:58] <edgy> trism: in muon or synaptic there used to be something calle local packages where I can go and remove all of them
[21:58] <edgy> trism: do you know how can I list local packages now from console?
[22:00] <edgy> trism: I would remove xserver-xorg-core and then reinstall ubuntu-desktop
[22:00] <edgy> let us see ...
[22:01] <edgy> trism: while I do that, the errors of fonts in .xsession file, do have them?
[22:02] <trism> edgy: yes I have those too
[22:05] <edgy> trism: I really really really really appreciate your help, now every think is ok
[22:07] <trism> edgy: excellent
[22:07] <edgy> after all it's so stupid to use an alpha software and then enable an a gamma over the alpha
[23:01] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. still cant get webapps working.. lets see...
[23:05] <Dr_Willis> plugins are enabled. in firefox and chromium.
[23:07] <Dr_Willis> Oh well.. try it agagin in a few days. :) see if any updates help.