[06:19] <popey> morning
[06:34] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:29] <jacobw> morning
[07:32] <AlanBell> morning
[07:51] <christel> morning pretties
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> Hello
[08:01]  * jacobw waits for https://www.coursera.org/course/algs4partI to start at 1200 EST
[08:02] <jacobw> EDT even .. US time zones /o\
[08:02] <MartijnVdS> basic iterables?
[08:02] <MartijnVdS> and algos?
[08:03] <MartijnVdS> to quote the Clarkson: "How hard can it be?"
[08:03] <popey> whats that in UTC?
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> popey: you can ask google for the current time in Princeton, and it'll tell you :)
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> 4:04 Sunday (EDT) - Time in Princeton, NJ, USA
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> = nao
[08:05] <jpds> So, 1600 UTC.
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> jpds: now + 8 hours
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> Sun Aug 12 08:06:07 UTC 2012
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> so yes, 1600UTC
[08:19] <jacobw> MartijnVdS: the first lecture is titled 'union find'
[08:20] <jacobw> MartijnVdS: i don't know what that is yet :)
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: Only unionized coders know 8-)
[08:27] <jacobw> haha
[08:28]  * jacobw thinks of grosse point blanc
[08:55] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:58] <jacobw> hey brobostigon
[08:59] <brobostigon> hey jacobw
[10:11] <Pendulum> morning
[10:11] <brobostigon> morning Pendulum
[10:15] <Pendulum> brobostigon: how goes?
[10:16] <brobostigon> Pendulum: not bad, could be better. and you?
[10:23] <Pendulum> just waking up. it's about 6:20 here
[10:23] <brobostigon> ah.
[10:30] <christel> HELLO Pendulum YOU BEAUTIFUL YOUNG THING YOU <3
[10:31] <Pendulum> christel: GOOD MORNING LOVELY :D
[10:35] <christel> how are you my pretty :D
[10:35] <Pendulum> I'm working the whole waking up thing. How're you?
[10:40] <Pendulum> christel: How is the land of reindeer and raspberry jam?
[10:45] <christel> it is BEAUTIFUL
[10:45] <christel> and SUNNY
[10:45] <christel> and warm
[10:45] <hamitron> for now
[10:45] <brobostigon> :)
[10:45] <Pendulum> :)
[10:46] <christel> hamitron: hehe yes
[10:48] <christel> i shall eat MOOSE soon :D
[10:50] <Pendulum> I want to eat moose. I missed a chance to eat moose (and elk) when I was in high school :(
[10:50] <christel> aww
[10:50] <christel> it is VERY TASTY
[10:50] <christel> come with me to NORWAY and EAT ALL THE MOOSE
[10:50] <christel> :D
[10:50] <Pendulum> christel: was just going to say that I should do that :P
[10:59] <christel> :D
[10:59] <christel> yes!
[10:59] <christel> there was a whale incident on friday
[10:59] <Pendulum> how do you have a whale incident?
[10:59] <christel> you go fishing in a small boat
[10:59] <christel> and happily mind your own business
[11:00] <christel> then a 20 metre long whale decides to JUMP out of the water and splash down next to your boat
[11:00] <christel> and then you all spend hours with a racing pulse because it could so easily have landed on your boat crushing you all to pieces
[11:01] <Pendulum> aww
[11:01] <christel> we think it happened because there was some seismic blasting investigations nearby so it probably got frightened or something
[11:01] <christel> they dont usually jump like that!
[11:01] <Pendulum> I am glad it did not splash down on your boat!
[11:01] <christel> my nephew is (now) all "oh i thought it was quite cool and not at all scary"
[11:01] <Pendulum> What sort of whale?
[11:01] <christel> (he is such a liar)
[11:02] <christel> a fin whale (finback whale?)
[11:03] <Pendulum> there are apparently 4 different names for it (of which you've given 2 ;) )
[11:04] <christel> upon turning to run away another one popped up for air!
[11:04] <christel> i must admit i would rather be surrounded by ubuntu folk than whales!
[11:04] <christel> oo
[11:07] <Pendulum> haha
[11:07] <Pendulum> but whales are pretty!
[11:08] <AlanBell> beats most stories about the size of the one that got away
[11:09] <AlanBell> we have just been fishing but got nothing over 3cm
[11:27] <christel> ah.. the one that got away.. why yes, he was rather lar..wait whales?
[11:27] <christel> awww
[11:27] <christel> that is rubbish fishing
[11:27]  * christel can beat 3cm
[11:27] <Pendulum> haha
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> https://metacpan.org/module/Moose ?
[11:31] <christel> http://imgur.com/a/mTCkR the fin of the whale pre-jump
[11:31] <christel> and the "catch" (bar whale)
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> christel: was there also a bowl of petunias?
[11:32] <christel> hahaha
[11:32] <christel> no petunias :(
[11:32] <christel> AlanBell: you can come to norway with pendulum to eat moose and whales and fish big things
[11:34] <popey> its bbq weather!
[11:34]  * popey has ribs in the slow cooker
[11:40] <Pendulum> christel: yay for yummy foods!
[11:43] <christel> mmmmfoods \o/
[12:13] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[12:14] <pr0ph3t> I have a problem with skype on ubuntu 64bit, camera is upside down. I tried using LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/v4l1compat.so and/or LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib32/libv4l/v4l1compat.so but I keep getting error "preload ignore"
[12:15] <pr0ph3t> p.s. after preload I run skype:=> LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/v4l1compat.so /usr/bin/skype
[12:25] <pr0ph3t> right, if anyone asks, it's because the command is LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libv4l/v4l1compat.so /usr/bin/skype
[12:26] <pr0ph3t> now I need to find out why if I change cursor theme it does not show properly, ubuntu 12.04
[13:35] <christel> almost moose o clock \o/
[13:37] <penguin42> moose o clock?
[13:38] <christel> yus! :D
[13:39] <penguin42> which moose is that?
[13:39] <Pendulum> christel: yay for moose o'clock \o/
[13:40] <christel> the kind that tastes good \o/
[13:40] <penguin42> christel: Chocolate moose?
[13:41] <penguin42> M&S sell chocolate moose and they also sell lemon moose - why would you ever have lemon moose if you could have chocolate moose?
[13:41] <Pendulum> penguin42: I could see layering the two. It would make a good combo
[13:41] <christel> noooo...  i am not sure chocolate or lemon would work with my moose
[13:41] <Pendulum> penguin42: I do believe christel is talking about Norweigian moose, though
[13:42] <penguin42> Pendulum: Hmm not sure about lemon+chcolate, orange goes well with chocolate
[13:42] <Pendulum> so does lemon
[13:42] <penguin42> hmm, never tried that - must
[13:42] <Pendulum> (I like lemon+chocolate more than orange+chocolate, actually)
[13:42] <penguin42> christel: Is this a roast moose?
[13:43] <christel> yesss
[13:43] <christel> :D
[13:44] <christel> mind, venison works with chocolate
[13:47] <Pendulum> Is moose similar enough to venison in taste that it would be worth trying the combination?
[16:10] <jacobw> evening
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> \o
[16:15] <AlanBell> spice girls night \o/
[16:15] <penguin42> oh dear
[16:15] <brobostigon> exavtly penguin42 :)
[16:15] <brobostigon> exactly*
[16:16] <brobostigon> i have heard, the who, will also be playing.
[16:18] <ali1234> who's after what?
[16:26] <AlanBell> http://ratemyspicerack.com/dan/ another rack added
[16:27] <AlanBell> popey: how is your rack?
[16:29] <penguin42> does it take marks off for spelling rude words out?
[16:29] <penguin42> with the spice...
[16:33] <AlanBell> dunno, depends how people rate it really ;)
[16:33] <AlanBell> penguin42: lets see it
[16:34] <penguin42> AlanBell: I haven't got one, my concept of spice extends as far as cinnamon, and nutmeg for apple crumble and rice puddings respectively
[16:35]  * AlanBell agrees
[16:35] <AlanBell> most of them are a mystery to me
[16:37] <Dave2> I bought a spice that is actually five spices today
[16:37] <AlanBell> pics plz
[16:37] <Dave2> But I don't have a spice rack
[16:37] <AlanBell> http://ratemyspicerack.com/share-your-rack/
[16:37] <Dave2> I wish I had a spice rack
[16:47] <Dave2> http://temp.jpgclan.com/2012-08-12-spices.jpeg this is my collection of spices and things that would go in a spice rack if I had one
[16:47] <Dave2> But I don't have a dedicated storage location :(
[16:47] <Dave2> (They were already out)
[16:50] <AlanBell> http://ratemyspicerack.com/share-your-rack/ is where that should be posted!
[16:54] <penguin42> anyone posted any racks without spice?
[16:56] <AlanBell> well there is one that is a tray, and a couple of drawers
[16:56] <AlanBell> nothing spiceless, that would be a bit odd
[16:56] <AlanBell> well a herb rack would be OK I guess
[17:07] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have lots of herbs and spices, but no rack
[17:35] <penguin42> AlanBell: Well, an empty one would seem valid - if it's someone wanting their rack to be rated
[17:49] <jacobw> what distinguishes spices from herbs?
[17:51] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: seeds vs. leaves
[17:52] <SuperEngineer> [eveninks all]
[17:52] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: corriander - spice in seed form, herb in leaf form
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> colander - neither herb nor spice
[17:53] <SuperEngineer> ..ginger... that's a root - go figure
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: so.. spice or herb?
[17:53] <SuperEngineer> colander bad for grinders!
[17:54] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: a sperb?
[17:54] <MartijnVdS> ...
[17:55] <SuperEngineer> suffice to say ginger is not a herb - the leaf rule counts, most people say "spice" [though english think it's a cake or biscuit
[17:55] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[17:59] <jacobw> excellent, i did not know that :D
[17:59]  * jacobw loves knowledge
[18:00] <jacobw> i guess you can solve the ginger problem by considering seed vs not seed
[18:01] <jacobw> minus all the things are something else like fruits or berries
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: In dutch "kruid" ("herb") is the leaves and stems (except in plants from the tropics), "specerij" is "everything else"
[18:02] <jacobw> i already feel racist for saying "ginger problem" :(
[18:02]  * AlanBell would like to see a Dutch spice collection
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have a spice drawer, not a rack :)
[18:03] <AlanBell> unracked collections are fine
[18:03]  * MartijnVdS fetches the camera
[18:03] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: methinks ginger might be a specerij
[18:03]  * SuperEngineer has a spice tray - it contains herbs ;)
[18:03]  * hamitron 's idea of spice collection is.... salt
[18:04] <SuperEngineer> hamitron: so pepper would be your herb?
[18:04] <hamitron> herb? don't do
[18:04] <hamitron> ;)
[18:04] <AlanBell> salt is a rock
[18:05] <hamitron> adds flavour anyway
[18:05] <SuperEngineer> hamitron: jamacan herb... much better when schmoked not cooked :0
[18:06] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: salt is a salt... chemically speaking ;)
[18:07] <jacobw> a rock is a salt, chemically speaking
[18:08] <jacobw> omg recursive definitions
[18:09] <SuperEngineer> I hope my area manager likes knowledge... I just to his rude email sent to my home/private email, not the works email address...  I don't think he'll like my reply :D
[18:09] <SuperEngineer> *replied to
[18:10] <jacobw> did you inform him of his disagreeableness?
[18:10] <jacobw> sometimes people don't don't consider such informations as motivated by one's desire to share knowledge :(
[18:11] <SuperEngineer> ...when he threatens disciplinary tomorrow - considering telling him he's lucky he got a reply & didn't get his pooter remotely snafu'd as he deserved ;)
[18:11]  * jacobw think someone's read too much BOFH
[18:11]  * SuperEngineer might be looking for new employer soon ;)
[18:14] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: hope you didn't mean me... I'm a nice guy... honest
[18:15] <jacobw> i like BOFH too
[18:15] <jacobw> :D
[18:16] <hamitron> bofh?
[18:16] <SuperEngineer> hamitron: not for public family channel, sorry
[18:17] <shauno> speaking of remote snafus, I've been waiting 2 days for a stolen laptop to checkin.  patience is not my strong suit
[18:17] <SuperEngineer> hamitron: install package "wtf".. you may get it from that
[18:17] <jacobw> hamitron: http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/
[18:18] <hamitron> ty
[18:19] <hamitron> oh noes, my map of the site at work went through the wash :/
[18:19] <jacobw> not available electronically?
[18:19] <hamitron> no
[18:22] <jacobw> sad panda
[18:23]  * MartijnVdS shows off his herbs
[18:23] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yeh!
[18:24]  * MartijnVdS waits for -- probably -- someone to moderate the submission?
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell? :)
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> oooh
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> Doctor Who promo on BBC One
[18:31] <SuperEngineer> popey: +1 for Skycat flickr site !!!! ;) [not a request, a demand!]
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> reddit.com/r/popeycats/
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> ?
[18:31] <popey> :)
[18:32] <popey> he's now under my desk
[18:32] <popey> crawling around in the wires
[18:32] <popey> if I go offline...
[18:33] <SuperEngineer> ..or as ShyCat says... whoops!
[18:33] <SuperEngineer> *SkyCat
[18:33] <SuperEngineer> [freudian slip there]
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> SkyNet?
[18:33] <penguin42> shauno: Possible the thief isn't that stupid ?
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: if he wasn't stupid, why would he've had to resort to stealing?
[18:34] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well, I was speaking relatively - I mean perhaps they get told not to turn them on etc
[18:34] <hamitron> why work for something, when you can take it?
[18:34] <hamitron> oops, shouldn't say that out loud ;)
[18:35] <shauno> always a possibility, but I'll be watching for the checkin regardless :)
[18:35]  * MartijnVdS steals everything hamitron owns
[18:35] <hamitron> :/
[18:35]  * SuperEngineer points finger at stolen goods
[18:35] <hamitron> MartijnVdS: sorry to disappoint you
[18:35] <hamitron> ;D
[18:35] <penguin42> shauno: For reference; what type was it and where was it lost?
[18:36] <shauno> 5yo macbook, dublin airport
[18:36] <shauno> not a huge loss, just hoping I can get a shot at nuking the home folder
[18:37] <penguin42> shauno: Disk encryption!
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> popey: is that the WC's microphone? :)
[18:38] <popey> heh
[18:38] <popey> i have no idea who the WC is ;p
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> popey: yet he left his mic with your cat 8-)
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> oooh
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> Patrick Stewart's voice!
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> (BBC1)
[18:41] <mgdm> He's on Twitter now
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: yeah, I saw.. coolness :)
[18:41] <mgdm> http://twitter.com/SirPatStew for anyone who might not have seen
[18:47] <dwatkins> :D
[18:53] <SuperEngineer> nearly time for olympics close... nice to see the winners highlights again [not boring]
[18:54] <hamitron> ofc ;/
[18:55] <DJones> To be honest, I'll be glad when they get to the closing ceremony, I feel as though I've seen the hilights they're repeating about 100 times already
[18:57] <SuperEngineer> DJones: what?  surely this is the first time, isn't it?  ;)
[18:57]  * SuperEngineer looks forward to live Muse
[19:13]  * mgdm is listening to them right now
[19:15] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: :)  [& people thought only fishermen came from Teignmouth!?]
[19:17]  * SuperEngineer wonders - in the panoramic views of London tonight... will they include that smoke from the fire going on atm?
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> probably
[19:20]  * SuperEngineer wonders if can we claim a late gold medal for biggest fire
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> The Great Fire Returns
[19:22] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[19:24] <penguin42> 'London Fire Commissioner Ron Dobson said: "We've not seen a fire of this size in London for several years - it's certainly a dramatic end to the Olympics for the London Fire Brigade.'
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> "Several years" -- 4 centuries?
[19:24] <penguin42> well, it's not that large a fire
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> don't last year's riots count then?
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> weren't there a few warehouse fires/
[19:25] <penguin42> no single fire that big?
[19:25] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: ah but were they in London?
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> several awere
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> -a
[19:25] <penguin42> (Wasn't there a big Sony distrobution warehouse that went up?)
[19:31] <mgdm> Yep
[19:31] <SuperEngineer> In a special surprise for the Olympics close, or a sheer act of depression at not hosting the games, Dagenham sets itself on fire.
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> Dagenham.. from the smile?
[19:34] <popey> from the dustbin
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> further out than Barking
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> "He's _dagenham_" vs "He's _barking_"
[19:46] <ali1234> you know what windows needs?
[19:46] <ali1234> instead of anti virus
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> provirus?
[19:46] <ali1234> someone should just make a tool that just lists the legitimately useful files
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> like.. signed package content lists?
[19:46] <ali1234> yeah
[19:46] <ali1234> except
[19:47] <ali1234> you could run it after the fact
[19:47] <ali1234> and it would say "this file belongs to skype" or whatever
[19:47] <ali1234> so like a virus signature DB
[19:47] <ali1234> except with signatures for the legit files
[19:48] <ali1234> basically anti virus by white-list instead of black- and grey-list
[19:48]  * SuperEngineer is confused. ali1234 just mentioned "windows" and "useful" in same sentence... nooooo!
[19:49] <popey> ali1234, like rkhunter?
[19:49] <ali1234> maybe
[19:50] <ali1234> no, not like that
[19:50] <ali1234> i must be able to run it after the fact
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> like the md5sums files in Debian packages... is there a check tool for those/
[19:50] <ali1234> scenario: someone gives me 2 laptops and says "copy all my files and software to the new laptop"
[19:51] <ali1234> i need a piece of software which will inspect every file on the hard drive and tell me if it's a) part of a software package (and if so, which one), b) part of windows configuration, c) user data file, or d) virus
[19:54] <directhex> yeah, won't happen
[19:54] <directhex> windows has no coherent tracking of file ownership WRT installers. there's no standardization
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> Not even in Win8 with the app store thingy
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> ?
[19:55] <SuperEngineer> if anyone watching the closing ceremony *and8 is using twitter... I heartily recomment Queen_UK, PrincePhilipDoE & Charles_HRH are immwdiately followed.  not advertising anything except a sense of humour
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> does she have a problem with her voice?
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> or is it just that there's no autotune
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> ah, traditional British music
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> pots + pans clanking
[20:03]  * SuperEngineer congrats opener for singing a whole song through her nose
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I don't know her, but I think she's usually autotuned?
[20:05] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ditto - but I would suggest next time she should be auto-stopped
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> hey, is that Peter Pettigrew?
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> yes.. Timothy Spall
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> all that paper.. and no paper planes
[20:06] <SuperEngineer> darn! that's why I get funny looks when overtaking other vehicles... I've not got newspaper covering my car!
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> no queen?
[20:08] <AlanBell> bonkers!
[20:08] <SuperEngineer> in a helicopter somwhere?
[20:09] <SuperEngineer> Queen_UK Yes, it's true, one's at home with a gin. Harry took one's ticket. #closingceremony
[20:09] <AlanBell> delboy and rodney :-)
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> Madness!
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> they're old!
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> Why all the orange though?
[20:10] <AlanBell> sing up Suggs
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> Has our queen finally exercised her right to the English throne?
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: did you see my spicerack post? I think it's in moderation limbo?
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> pet shop cyclists
[20:13] <AlanBell> yes, I was out crab fishing
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: cool :) catch anything?
[20:14] <AlanBell> no
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> had a good time then?
[20:14] <AlanBell> was swimming in a shoal of fish
[20:14] <AlanBell> that wss cool
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> Are these the spice girls?
[20:16] <zleap> MartijnVdS, aparently they are in the closing ceremony,  which to me is a good reason to be here and not watching it
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> zleap: nah this is some boy band.. :)
[20:17] <zleap> ah
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> same target audience
[20:17] <zleap> dunno then
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> caption said "One Direction"
[20:17] <SuperEngineer> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
[20:17] <AlanBell> 1D my kids tell me
[20:17] <zleap> well they are more modern, space girls are from the 90's i think
[20:17] <mgdm> One Dimension more like
[20:17] <zleap> lol
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> Justin Bieber * 5
[20:17] <SuperEngineer> 0D my brain tells me
[20:19] <zleap> i have heard of them,
[20:19] <SuperEngineer> these bin dancers are so ashamed they use the bins to cover their faces!
[20:19] <zleap> bin dancers
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: and other parts
[20:20] <zleap> playing a day in the life from sgt pepper atm,
[20:21] <zleap> i like the demo of that from the beatles anthology
[20:22] <SuperEngineer> Danny Boyle - please come back & rescue this - I'll even give an Ubuntu live CD *free of charge*
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> Bad case of the mumbles
[20:22] <zleap> rigth after he says had a smoke, somebody spoke and i went in to a dream,  you can hear paul say oh sh*t then after the song he asks john if people are going to be suspicious
[20:25]  * MartijnVdS reloads ratemyspicerack
[20:25] <zleap> ok
[20:25] <AlanBell> boring song
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> mumbly singer
[20:25] <mgdm> which?
[20:25] <mgdm> they've all been mumbly :P
[20:25] <zleap> AlanBell, which
[20:25] <AlanBell> waterloo sunset
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> OMG CLOWNS THEY'RE COMING AT ME NOW I CAN'T SLEEP
[20:26] <shauno> erk, typing 'ratemy' into my browser, the first autocompletion suggestion was less than sanitary
[20:26] <mgdm> CLOWNS ARE GONNA GET YOU
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> shauno: poo?
[20:26] <shauno> indeed
[20:27] <zleap> got someone dressed in green atm, lol
[20:27] <SuperEngineer> ooo another "singing through my nose" ditty
[20:27] <zleap> winner of the dress like a cucumber competition 2012
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> she looks weird, sitting down in that thing
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> or she has short legs
[20:27] <zleap> lol
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> heh, 2 Dutch radio djs (who share a pet shop boys obsession) are still going wild on twitter :)
[20:28] <zleap> ok
[20:30] <zleap> who the heck is "Emeli Sande"
[20:31] <zleap> some performer from the ceremony
[20:31] <SuperEngineer> hmmm... is that a helicopter I hear taking off from Buck house?
[20:33] <zleap> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2187295/Olympics-worker-arrested-online-child-abuse-charges-200-paedophiles-tracked-Twitter-just-hours.html#comments
[20:33] <SuperEngineer> Elbow!!!! ;) ;) ;)
[20:34] <zleap> i commented onthis earlier to point out that the internet was created in the USA and that it is different to the WWW or that the www forms part of the net,   so far the haven't published my comment,
[20:34] <zleap> intenet and www being different things that is
[20:39] <SuperEngineer> one day like ythis a year will do me right
[20:39] <SuperEngineer> -y
[20:41] <zleap> SuperEngineer, ?
[20:41] <SuperEngineer> zleap - keep up boy
[20:41] <SuperEngineer> .,...listen -now
[20:41] <zleap> ok sorry
[20:41] <zleap> TV is in other room,  computer is in office
[20:44] <SuperEngineer> Dear BBC, we can do without the commentary, thank you very much. Regards, The Queen. [from Queen_UK on twitter]
[20:44] <mgdm> SuperEngineer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk2xaeXnxlM
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> aaaand the tape auto-reversed
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> hello dancing Ukrainian girls
[20:55] <SuperEngineer> If anyone was worried about the cost of all this - worry no more ;)
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> you're paying?
[20:55] <SuperEngineer> yup
[20:56] <SuperEngineer> spent at least a tenner
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> tetris!
[20:57] <zleap> tetris is russian
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> the BBC One HD H264 encoder has trouble with the blue lights in the helicopter views
[21:01]  * zleap is looking at photos of denver broncos cheerleaders 
[21:02] <shauno> I'm wondering how long the presenter had to practice that surname for
[21:02] <Azelphur> popey: care to put your rsnapshot config up? :)
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> Anyone waiting for the Spice Girls.. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/london-2012/9470803/Olympics-closing-ceremony-playlist.html
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> go make some tea :)
[21:05] <shauno> cracks me up that most the audience are trying to film it on their phones.  surely you'd just set the telly, and not spend the entire show staring at your battery meter?
[21:05] <zleap> hmm spiacegirls vs cheerleaders
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> shauno: also taking photos with flash
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> which gets you lots of photos of shiny backs of heads
[21:07] <zleap> http://myamazingamazonestores.blogspot.com/2012/08/curiousity-no-men-on-mars-humor-funnypic.html
[21:07] <zleap> lol
[21:08] <MartijnVdS> playlist on telegraph.co.uk still accurate
[21:09] <SuperEngineer> I could have sworn John Lennon was the one
[21:09] <SuperEngineer> ... thankyou
[21:13] <jpds> I like the way the BBC brought the HHGttG into this.
[21:14] <jpds> "Transferring data from zaphod-live.bbc.co.uk.edgesuite.net..."
[21:14] <MartijnVdS> It never left the BBC :)
[21:16] <SuperEngineer> getting worried now... please don't ruin it all bu wheeling out that McCartney idiot
[21:16] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: not according to the schedule.. though Eric Idle will appear
[21:16] <SuperEngineer> +1 to Eric Idle
[21:16] <MartijnVdS> just before muse
[21:17] <SuperEngineer> =1 to Muse :D
[21:21] <SuperEngineer> Anyone rom the Olympics doping squad on uuk - hey, George Michael at the Olympics stadium
[21:22] <brobostigon> lol
[21:22] <brobostigon> the who. :)
[21:22] <SuperEngineer> ooo - mod vs, rockers set to?
[21:22] <MartijnVdS> kaiser chiefs
[21:23] <brobostigon> :(
[21:23]  * brobostigon rants,
[21:23] <brobostigon> ohwell.
[21:23] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "Wish you were here" coming up
[21:23] <SuperEngineer> Roger Daltry's *changed*
[21:24] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: david gilmour ?
[21:24] <brobostigon> holy crap.
[21:24] <brobostigon> no, sorry,.
[21:25] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/london-2012/9470803/Olympics-closing-ceremony-playlist.html
[21:25] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (spoiler)
[21:25] <zleap> back later
[21:25] <brobostigon> i was thinking for a minute, they were going to do that david bowie.
[21:25] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
[21:25] <SuperEngineer> looks like the man who fell from mars went back... he's not live ;(
[21:29] <brobostigon> nick mason, :)
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> who ordered the Tim Burton movie?
[21:31] <SuperEngineer> kill'em Annie - show the idiots some class - at last
[21:32] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: haha
[21:32] <Myrtti> it's basically top of the pops of 1987
[21:33] <mgdm> I want Radiohead to show up and do something clattery and electronic
[21:33] <mgdm> The National Anthem would do *very* nicely
[21:33] <mgdm> imagine the lighting show!
[21:33] <Myrtti> SuperEngineer: in the movie it wasn't Roger that sang Pinball Wizard anyway ;-)
[21:34] <brobostigon> with floyd in am mo, it will be TOTP's from the late 70's
[21:34] <SuperEngineer> Myrtti: you're right - it was me - I remeber it well
[21:35]  * brobostigon giggles.
[21:35] <Myrtti> "it's Prince Harry playing guitar!"
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> nah it's Ron Weasly
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> ey
[21:36] <SuperEngineer> ... a breath of fresh air
[21:38] <brobostigon> that was an amazing song, :)
[21:38] <SuperEngineer> see - Brand *did* get back on the BBC
[21:39] <brobostigon> at*
[21:39] <brobostigon> get back at*
[21:39] <Myrtti> if that's really him singing, he's not too bad
[21:40] <SuperEngineer> oi - olympics doping squad - could be up for another here!
[21:40] <brobostigon> lol
[21:40] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[21:40] <Myrtti> oh man :-D
[21:41] <brobostigon> he is so miming this.
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> O RLY
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> :P
[21:41] <brobostigon> yes.
[21:41] <Myrtti> oh, that was a microphone, he really did sing that.
[21:41] <brobostigon> wow
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> it's Norman Cook!
[21:42] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[21:42] <brobostigon> good evening bigcalm :)
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> howdy bigcalm
[21:43] <brobostigon> but that was amazing, with rutherford and mason, :)
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> oops video error :)
[21:46] <jacobw> hehe
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> gold, silver, bronze car
[21:46] <brobostigon> it would be good to have a recoding of that song with those two playing together,
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> (it's in the details people)
[21:47] <MartijnVdS> uh
[21:47] <MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/stephenfry/status/234767983459831808
[21:49] <mgdm> THIS IS TERRIBLE
[21:49] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: it's DY-NO-MITES
[21:49] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: bee gees, spice girls coming up
[21:52] <MartijnVdS> well it's a bee gees song anyway
[21:52] <shauno> I'm not sure there's enough beegees left for a convincing act anymore :/
[21:52] <MartijnVdS> shauno: There aren't enough John Lennons for the Imagine bit either..
[21:55] <brobostigon> well, atleast something decent is on next, wonderwall.
[21:56] <MartijnVdS> Not long to Eric Idle too
[21:56] <brobostigon> yeah :)
[21:57] <Myrtti> Boris doing jiggy dance :-D
[21:57] <MartijnVdS> Dutch party :)
[21:58] <AlanBell> yay spice girls
[21:58] <SuperEngineer> What would *really* be a gold medal ending for this?  Brian May, guitar, centre stage, anthem on guitar.
[21:58] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: he's coming..
[21:58] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: really?
[21:58] <SuperEngineer> please say yes
[21:59] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: /last telegraph
[21:59] <MartijnVdS> and click the link :)
[21:59]  * SuperEngineer is happy now
[21:59] <brobostigon> SuperEngineer: and mason on drums, :)
[21:59] <SuperEngineer> it gets better
[22:00] <shauno> until you see who they've got standing in for freddie :/
[22:00] <MartijnVdS> Jessie J..
[22:00] <brobostigon> :(
[22:02]  * Laney pokes the beady eye out
[22:02] <MartijnVdS> elo
[22:02]  * brobostigon joins in a sings.
[22:03] <shauno> they're still playing live, they shoulda showed up
[22:03] <brobostigon> yes.
[22:03] <shauno> I was in bratislava recently, was surprised to see adverts for an upcoming show plastered everywhere
[22:04] <brobostigon> cool
[22:04] <brobostigon> shauno: which lineup?
[22:05] <shauno> no idea, I stopped paying attention to them once I figured out the date was too far into the future
[22:05] <brobostigon> ok.
[22:05] <MartijnVdS> ♫ Always look on the bright side of life
[22:05] <SuperEngineer> darnt gwumble folks
[22:06] <MartijnVdS> he's really enjoying himself :)
[22:06] <brobostigon> :)
[22:06] <SuperEngineer> ...when you think of it, life a piece of .... go on Eric, I dare you!
[22:07] <brobostigon> life of brian, :)
[22:08] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[22:08] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: he did :)
[22:08] <SuperEngineer> yeh!!!
[22:09] <SuperEngineer> 10/10 Mr. Idle ;)
[22:10] <MartijnVdS> "I finally had the budget I've always wanted to record this song"
[22:10] <brobostigon> :) hehe
[22:11] <SuperEngineer> Go for it Teignmouth boys!
[22:11] <MartijnVdS> Mews
[22:11] <brobostigon> muse*
[22:11]  * MartijnVdS only has their first album
[22:11] <brobostigon> i own none,
[22:13] <directhex> i like 'em and i'm not ashamed to say it
[22:14] <MartijnVdS> Wow.. that trick even works from beyond the grave
[22:15] <brobostigon> :)
[22:15] <MartijnVdS> (20 years after Barcelona)
[22:15] <SuperEngineer> A tribute to Fm is better than none - and it's in yer face ;)
[22:15] <MartijnVdS> Curly Whites
[22:16] <shauno> aye, the nutty professor look suits Dr May
[22:16] <brobostigon> me astrophysicist, :)
[22:16] <brobostigon> mr*
[22:16] <SuperEngineer> his hair doesn't play guitar - his hands do
[22:16] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Brian or James? :P
[22:16] <shauno> I don't think James is a doctor :)
[22:16] <MartijnVdS> shauno: He's a captain
[22:16] <brobostigon> shauno: brian is.
[22:16] <MartijnVdS> shauno: May received an honorary Doctor of Letters degree from Lancaster University on 15 July 2010.[13]
[22:17] <MartijnVdS> shauno: So.. James is too
[22:17] <shauno> seriously?
[22:17] <shauno> brian earned his though :D
[22:17] <brobostigon> but brian actually worked for his, it is a proper one.
[22:17] <brobostigon> :)
[22:17] <Laney> you don't get the title from an honourary degree
[22:17] <SuperEngineer> ...and that folks - is how it's done!
[22:18] <brobostigon> another amazing drummer, number two, :)
[22:19] <shauno> ouch
[22:19] <brobostigon> she cant sing this,
[22:19] <MartijnVdS> s/this//
[22:19] <SuperEngineer> the stadium's doing better than she is ;)
[22:19]  * brobostigon cringes.
[22:19] <brobostigon> you would have thought brian should know better.
[22:20] <SuperEngineer> Freddie - get back in that grave - put the axe away - we'll take care of it for you
[22:20] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: maybe they wrapped him in magnets, and put coils in his coffin
[22:21] <shauno> know better .. he probably could have sang it better.  he's not bad in his own right
[22:21] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: They need to get the electricity for this somewhere..
[22:21] <SuperEngineer> it#'s ok Freddie - she's shut up now
[22:21] <MartijnVdS> The Greasy Anthem
[22:21] <brobostigon> shauno: i meant jessie j, couldnt brian have complained.
[22:21] <brobostigon> SuperEngineer: :)
[22:22] <shauno> brobostigon: aye, I'm just wondering if he would have made a better substitute
[22:22] <brobostigon> shauno: definatly, yes, no question.
[22:23] <SuperEngineer> if only they'd bring Brian May back  on at the end to play *our* national anthem
[22:24] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: they'll drag out John Lydon for that
[22:24] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ;)
[22:25] <SuperEngineer> is Sir Arthur camuggen carrying that flag?
[22:26] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: the wc?
[22:26] <SuperEngineer> yup
[22:26] <MartijnVdS> Boris Yeltsin.. uh Johnson
[22:26]  * brobostigon sniggers at boris
[22:29] <SuperEngineer> the Brazillian anthem - as heard at every west end farce in the interval
[22:29] <SuperEngineer> ...well sounds like it anyway
[22:29] <dogmatic69> not sure if this has been seen https://twitter.com/Sundancer/status/234746971070558208
[22:30] <SuperEngineer> that bloke with the brush has got a lot of news paper to get off the stae!
[22:30] <SuperEngineer> *stage
[22:31] <SuperEngineer> ..not faitr to give the job to one man only
[22:32] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: That.. would be amazing :)
[22:33] <dogmatic69> could not be more Team GB
[22:36] <zleap> hello
[22:37] <Azelphur> Does anyone know of a good tool to do incremental backups using rsync or an rsync like tool?
[22:37] <zleap> cron
[22:38] <MartijnVdS> cron + rsync
[22:38] <Azelphur> Surely that eats up a tonne of drive space as it creates a full copy every time?
[22:38] <MartijnVdS> no?
[22:38] <Azelphur> explain in more detail?
[22:38] <MartijnVdS> cp -la :)
[22:38] <MartijnVdS> cp -la backup backup-previous
[22:39] <MartijnVdS> rsync again to backup
[22:39] <MartijnVdS> \o/ only diffs take up space
[22:39] <Azelphur> ah, clever
[22:39] <mgdm> Azelphur: I have used and like rsnapshot
[22:39] <mgdm> but I"m not sure if it does that hard-linking thing
[22:39] <MartijnVdS> maybe something with --link-dest= on rsync
[22:39] <Azelphur> yea, I really liked rsnapshot, it's just that it is absolutely broken now
[22:39] <Azelphur> and it seems abandoned too
[22:39] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: rsnapshot is VERY picky about tabs in its configfile
[22:39] <zleap> brb going t check something
[22:39] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: it doesn't throw any errors, it doesn't say anything in -V, it just does nothing.
[22:40] <Azelphur> no way to debug at all, I've been asking about it for days :(
[22:40] <Azelphur> it's just making me want to stab things.
[22:40] <mgdm> any file format that uses tabs differently from spaces can sod off
[22:40] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: copy the demo config file, edit and make sure tabs stay the same
[22:40] <mgdm> but I grudgingly accept rsnapshot
[22:40] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: that's the thing, even the demo config file doesn't work!
[22:40] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Stränge
[22:40] <Azelphur> yea, it's broke.
[22:41] <Azelphur> popey says he's still using it, but it just does not work for me at all
[22:41] <zleap> hmm,   I am sure sometimes when i exit xchat the desktop notifcations for xchat carry on displaying messages
[22:41] <popey> hmm?
[22:41] <Azelphur> can anyone doing it with cron give me an example?
[22:41] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_snapshots/
[22:41] <Azelphur> popey: oh your here, can I have your config file yet? :P
[22:41] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you want that
[22:41] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: fun
[22:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's a few scripts that use rsync + hard-link trees to do incremental backups
[22:44] <popey> what changed?
[22:44] <popey> hmm
[22:44] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I wonder how rsnapshot manages rotation, it just has like the past 7 days for example
[22:44] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's a perl script.. :)
[22:44] <popey> it just mvs them
[22:44] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you can read Perl, can't you?
[22:44] <Azelphur> popey: I dunno, my backups stopped working back in feb and I only just found out, so have no way of knowing really
[22:44] <MartijnVdS> UTSL
[22:44] <popey> hourly.0 to hourly.1 etc
[22:44] <Azelphur> popey: haha, you've got the same problem as me?
[22:45] <popey> no
[22:45] <Azelphur> mine just mvs and never runs rsync
[22:45] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: the mukerubel link has good scripts that work and rotate
[22:45] <popey> what makes you think that?
[22:45] <Azelphur> sorry, I took your response out of context
[22:45] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: ok :)
[22:45] <popey> do you see execution of rsync happening?
[22:45] <popey> in the log?
[22:45] <Azelphur> popey: no
[22:46] <popey> does /usr/bin/rsync exist?
[22:46] <popey> can you run it
[22:46] <Azelphur> yes
[22:46] <popey> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 409416 Nov  8  2011 /usr/bin/rsync
[22:46] <popey> look like that?
[22:46] <popey> 12.04 here
[22:47] <Azelphur> yep
[22:47] <Azelphur> hmm, I think I might have just figured it out haha
[22:47] <popey> oh?
[22:47] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Vell? :)
[22:47] <Azelphur> yep, \o/
[22:47] <Azelphur> it doesn't run rsync if your not using the lowest time increment
[22:47] <Azelphur> so I've been testing with rsnapshot -t daily
[22:47] <MartijnVdS> it only rotates directories in that case
[22:47] <popey> correct
[22:47] <popey> plumb
[22:47] <Azelphur> and rsnapshot -t daily just takes a copy of hourly
[22:47] <Azelphur> *facepalm*
[22:48] <Azelphur> that only took a week to figure out
[22:48] <Azelphur> \o/
[22:48] <mgdm> :D
[22:49] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://i.qkme.me/3ogceg.jpg ?
[22:49] <Azelphur> indeed.
[22:50] <Azelphur> almost as good as the time i spent a few hours trying to debug code and wondering why none of my changes were taking effect, only to realise I was editing the wrong file \o/
[22:51] <MartijnVdS> always the first thing to check :)
[22:51] <shauno> oh I do that all the time.  edit the local copy, hit refresh on the server
[22:51] <Azelphur> indeed :P
[22:51] <Azelphur> yep lol
[22:51] <MartijnVdS> shauno: just edit it live -- http://www.bnj.com/cowboy-coding-pink-sombrero/
[22:51] <shauno> it's worse when you get it the wrong way around though, and you're editing the live copy, and wondering why you don't see any changes on stage
[22:52] <MartijnVdS> shauno: and that's why "live" = debian package installed by automated tools :)
[22:52] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:52] <MartijnVdS> shauno: and I don't WANT a login on that box
[22:52] <MartijnVdS> those scary sysadmin people can do that.. I'll write a document on how to configure the app :)
[22:53] <Azelphur> in other news, I think my cool korean monitors are arriving tomorrow, DHL says they left germanly at 1700 today
[22:53] <Azelphur> germany*
[22:53] <MartijnVdS> Germanly?
[22:53] <Azelphur> haha
[22:53] <MartijnVdS> Did they win that many medals? :P
[22:53] <Azelphur> I don't even know how I typod that one.
[22:54] <MartijnVdS> you were googling "manly" things
[22:54] <jpds> Azelphur: Chermanly*
[22:54] <Azelphur> indeed \o/
[22:54] <Azelphur> but yea gonna be interesting, apparently they use the same panels as the apple cinema displays just with a cheap PCB and case
[22:54] <MartijnVdS> .. and 120V power? :P
[22:54] <Azelphur> they come with free converters :D
[22:55] <MartijnVdS> .. and Aussie connectors/
[22:55] <MartijnVdS> ?
[22:55] <mgdm> I now have a 27" iMac at work
[22:55] <Azelphur> haha
[22:55] <mgdm> since then, my 24" 1080p monitor looks rather low-res
[22:55] <Azelphur> I think even most cameras will be low res compared to my monitor now
[22:56] <Azelphur> 10240x1440 (4 x 2560x1440)  is a nice resolution xD (
[22:57] <ali1234> er, no
[22:57] <ali1234> video cameras maybe
[22:58] <ali1234> you only have like 14MP there
[22:58] <Azelphur> most cameras are 8 and below lol
[22:58] <ali1234> no, most camera phones are 8MB and below :)
[22:59] <ali1234> *most* : http://www.nokia.com/global/products/phone/808pureview/
[22:59] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:00] <Azelphur> ali1234: assuming most people won't spend more than £250 on a camera, http://bit.ly/PbOBrC
[23:00] <Azelphur> seems like you get 10-16mp
[23:00] <ali1234> exactly
[23:01]  * Azelphur shrugs
[23:02] <ali1234> then there's movies
[23:04] <ali1234> the hobbit is being shot at 48 FPS, probably at 4K
[23:04] <ali1234> or higher
[23:05] <mgdm> I saw the BBC Super Hi-Vision demo
[23:05] <mgdm> that was quite shiny
[23:05] <mgdm> and blows your monitor out of the water
[23:05] <ali1234> yes
[23:05] <mgdm> also 22.2 surround sound, delivered by 37 speakers
[23:05] <ali1234> framerate becomes more important at higher resolutions
[23:05] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:05] <zleap> i see the film producers are still bullying that pub called the hobbit sinply as they think its infringing on their IP, typical hollywood the pub has been there longer
[23:05] <ali1234> cos you can't tell the difference if everything is just a blur
[23:06] <ali1234> zleap: it actually *is* infringing on their IP though
[23:06] <ali1234> really blatantly
[23:06] <mgdm> There's someone I know who reckons that because TV is 25fps, but interlaced so you get 50 diffferent pictures per second, the Hobbit will just look like TV
[23:06] <mgdm> I call BS
[23:06] <ali1234> mgdm: that's true
[23:06] <ali1234> interlace actually does work like that
[23:06] <mgdm> (especially after seeing the SHV demo)
[23:07] <zleap> but wasn'tthe pub called that before the movies were even made
[23:07] <ali1234> zleap: yeah but not before the books were written
[23:07] <mgdm> the main difference I saw that was during a relatively fast pan, at 60fps it looked like it was panning, unlike in 24p where it shudders and falls apart and looks terrible
[23:07] <ali1234> you do know those movies are based on books right?
[23:08] <mgdm> ali1234: aye, but there's far more to differentiate TV from a properly shot film than that
[23:08] <zleap> but surely there is a context here, that the intention was more of a tribute to the books and author
[23:08] <zleap> ali1234, yes
[23:08] <ali1234> mgdm: not as much as you might think
[23:08] <ali1234> there is definitely something to it, i've seen it myself
[23:08] <ali1234> even when the TV is doing interframe blending you can see this effect
[23:09] <ali1234> for example if you watch star wars, it looks like an episode of doctor who from the same time period (but with slightly better effects)
[23:09] <ali1234> it's a really subtle effect
[23:10] <ali1234> but if you noticed things like NTSC->PAL conversion on american sitcoms in the 90s then you will notice this too
[23:10] <zleap> just been watching the birds from the 60's, you def see the have super imposed stuff over the original filming
[23:10] <ali1234> or live TV vs recorded shows always looked different
[23:11] <ali1234> when you watch some high framerate footage the first time it seems weird, weirder than HD did
[23:11] <mgdm> There are TVs at work that take the 576i signal just before it goes to the Freeview encoders
[23:12] <ali1234> but after a while it just becomes normal and everything else looks like rubbish
[23:12] <ali1234> anyway regarding interlacing, yes, the two fields are both spacially and temporally different
[23:12] <mgdm> if you look at those, and then look at 1080i signal after broadcast, you realise that 1080i HD over Freeview gets you back roughly to where you'd have been with a nice CRT and a line-of-sight to a nearish transmitter
[23:12] <mgdm> ali1234: yeah, I know that
[23:12] <ali1234> so it is neither 25 frames per second nor 50 frames per second, but kind of a blend of both
[23:12] <mgdm> I mean, analogue transmitter
[23:13] <ali1234> you can in fact feed a TV only top or bottom fields to get true 50FPS at half the resolution
[23:13] <ali1234> and nasty scanlines
[23:14] <ali1234> that's how games consoles did it
[23:14] <ali1234> probably out of spec though
[23:15] <mgdm> the compression that SD Freeview does is nasty and does 'orrible things
[23:15] <ali1234> yes
[23:15] <ali1234> especially on dave
[23:16] <mgdm> they probably have next to no bandwidth
[23:16] <ali1234> i think they mus have nly bought enough bandwidth for a radio station and tried to put TV on it
[23:16] <mgdm> heh
[23:16] <mgdm> actually they have the same bandwidth as ITV1, apparently
[23:16] <ali1234> well, ITV1 is usually pants as well
[23:17] <ali1234> on dave they probably compressed the shows for archival more than for transmission
[23:17] <mgdm> at work, the SD output isn't brilliant - the HD equivalent isn't bad, though
[23:17] <ali1234> then recompressed for tx, you get double the artefacts
[23:18] <ali1234> BBC usually does a good job
[23:18] <ali1234> best quality pictures, and best test of your playback setup you're going to get on freeview HD is match of the day
[23:19] <zleap> yeah only the bbc could do all day coverage of the olympics then do breaks to news which then report on the olympics with very little time to other news
[23:20] <ali1234> instant way to tell if your fields are reversed is watch some football