[04:30] <smartboyhw> Hi!
[04:33] <balloons> it's late
[04:33] <smartboyhw> balloons: astraljava hostile took over coordination of Ubuntu Studio Testing
[04:33] <smartboyhw> It's 12:33 PM here
[04:34] <balloons> yep.. we're 12 hrs difference
[04:34] <balloons> fun eh?
[04:34] <smartboyhw> fun!
[04:34] <balloons> you are literally half-way round the world
[04:34] <smartboyhw> Yep!
[04:34] <balloons> not sure you could get any farther away :-)
[04:34] <smartboyhw> I'm wondering: What do you think about Ubuntu TV
[04:35] <balloons> smartboyhw, as in?
[04:35] <smartboyhw> As in #ubuntu-tv!
[04:35] <smartboyhw> :)
[04:42] <balloons> it's neat to see unity on so many platforms
[04:42] <balloons> and have it make sense
[04:42] <smartboyhw> Yep
[04:43] <smartboyhw> Ubuntu Studio Meeting 1400UTC on Monday (I mean today for me, tmr or today for you)
[05:27]  * smartboyhw waves at rbasak
[09:58] <smartboyhw> I am back!
[11:09] <phillw> smartboyhw: I have to leave in just over 30 minutes. I forgot that I have an appoitment.
[11:11] <xnox> is there a central place for existing utah runlists?
[11:11]  * xnox wants to learn from examples
[11:11] <xnox> real-life examples
[11:15] <njin> LOL, ubiquity-dm rising up a garbled win8 background ( my machine love Ubuntu) http://www.flickr.com/photos/83509150@N05/7772803918/in/photostream/
[14:41] <smartboyhw> balloons? You here?
[14:41] <balloons> howdy
[14:41] <smartboyhw> In a Ubuntu Studio meeting now
[14:42] <smartboyhw> Chairing it
[14:44] <smartboyhw> balloons: I need to find more people to test Ubuntu Studio
[14:45] <smartboyhw> phillw: I am not free
[14:46] <balloons> smartboyhw, I see.. I think you
[14:46] <balloons> you've got some time, so :-)
[14:47] <smartboyhw> There's only me and len to help testing
[15:15] <smartboyhw> balloons: Finished meeting
[15:16] <balloons> smartboyhw, there's an on-air meeting every monday @ this tme
[15:16] <balloons> if your interested in watching
[15:17] <balloons> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVd9pEB9XYGGk7fJvNlYHWw
[15:17] <smartboyhw> NOw in there
[15:18] <smartboyhw> Who can join the Hangout
[15:21] <balloons> it gives you an insight on what the canonical platform qa team is doing
[15:21] <balloons> it's there meeting
[15:21] <smartboyhw> Oh
[15:21] <balloons> but they publish it publically
[15:21] <balloons> they have it every week on monday
[15:23] <smartboyhw> Who's in the team?
[15:23] <smartboyhw> I mean Canonical Platform QA
[15:40] <smartboyhw> Bye balloons
[15:40] <balloons> good night smartboyhw !
[15:40] <smartboyhw> Good night!
[20:49] <phillw> balloons: ping
[20:49] <balloons> pong
[20:49] <phillw> I have a little bug to report on qa-iso tracker.
[20:50] <phillw> when you de-select all flavours on the left, except the one you want to check on; when you ask for 'history', it gives you the entire suite!
[20:50] <balloons> phillw, lol
[20:50] <balloons> you know what, I've always experienced that but didn't think about it
[20:51] <phillw> just taken 5 mins to get the one for ubuntu-server as I have a willing tester for server 12.10
[20:51] <balloons> phillw, do you know how to report it?
[20:51] <balloons> report and I can confirm and assign it
[20:51] <phillw> I was 'attempting' top do a manual cadence check on the release.
[20:51] <balloons> ahh phillw
[20:51] <balloons> heh
[20:51] <balloons> yea, you see how difficult it gets eh?
[20:52] <phillw> balloons: report it & I will confirm it. I've got to wget ubuntu-server-amd64 12.10 and install it on a VM for proxlinux.
[20:52] <balloons> phillw, touche :-) no problem
[20:53] <balloons> just wanted to make sure you knew how to report
[20:53] <balloons> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+filebug
[20:53] <balloons> it's a link at the very bottom of the site
[20:53] <balloons> there's even a 'get the code' link
[20:55] <phillw> balloons:  okies, I'll have a check into it. Let me fire up KVM of the master server and get this guy sorted back out with his VM. He volunteered it back to our pool on SII, then found out the new hoster people were ass-holes and has asked if I still have a spare one. As it happens, I had not re-assigned his IPv4 to someone else.
[20:55] <balloons> okm have at it
[20:56] <balloons> I'll make sure it gets filled
[20:56] <phillw> send me the link & I'll confirm it for you, not that it needs much confirming!
[21:10] <balloons> phillw, I subscribed you
[21:10] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/1036387
[21:10] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1036387 in Ubuntu QA Website "Tracker doesn't allow for filtering in history view" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[21:11] <balloons> phillw, do you want lubuntu stats for last week?
[21:11] <balloons> I can make them up really quick
[21:11] <balloons> lol.
[21:12] <balloons> "make them up".. lol, not forge them.. but get the results and provide them to you
[21:13] <phillw> balloons: if you could, as Lars did say that he had done the tests requested and let out a light :sigh:: when asked to repeat them
[21:14] <balloons> phillw, I wanted to talk with him about that
[21:14] <balloons> I didn't see his results show up
[21:14] <balloons> and if that was a technical issue, then whoops! and I'll figure out how it happened
[21:15] <balloons> if they really aren't there, then something happened on his end..
[21:15] <balloons> we also need to chat about things in general. I was holding off on speaking until after the week is over
[21:16] <balloons> but I want to get something on the schedule this week
[21:16] <balloons> I'm going to just put forward a couple times to everyone to talk with me and everyone else
[21:16] <balloons> once in my morning and once in my evening
[21:16] <balloons> that should hit everyone I hope
[21:18] <balloons> but back on my question -- do you want lubuntu results from last week?
[21:18] <phillw> TBH. for Lars, email is the best way to catch him. I cannot honestly recall the last time I chatted to him on IRC.
[21:20] <phillw> it is the same for one of the other lubuntu devs, his job is that varied he does really prefer email.
[21:21] <phillw> and as for the surgeon who is pcman, he just tries to keep up with emails and dev stuff for the project. I will ask julien before I email him.
[21:22] <balloons> hmm
[21:22] <balloons> well, sounds like a ml thread is better than
[21:22] <balloons> that's fine, I'll start one of those instead. Whatever works for me. I just want to make myself availible for more than a ml thread if desired
[21:22] <balloons> I'll mention that :)
[21:23] <phillw> balloons: I'm not sure about things on 'main' QA, but with people from so many different TZ's we have found them to be invaluble.
[21:24] <balloons> heh.. yes, I personally like mailing lists
[21:24] <balloons> but you know.. I enjoy many of the "old school" communicaton I guess
[21:24] <balloons> irc, mailing list, email
[21:24] <phillw> just this time. do remember to cc to L-QA :P
[21:24] <balloons> lolol
[21:24] <balloons> already done my friend
[21:26] <phillw> As L-QA is joined to lubuntu, and a couple have asked that they do not get every email from QA, it is a decision to be taken when you write an email. So far, so good :) I've had no complaints of either you cc'ing or me forwarding stuff.
[21:27] <balloons> ok
[21:28] <balloons> yes, I'm overly cautious on that it seems
[21:28] <balloons> I really don't ever want to spam communication to people, but for the most part, people are asking for me
[21:28] <phillw> if it affects Lubuntu, tell them!
[21:28] <balloons> so.. :-)
[21:28] <balloons> asking for more
[21:28] <balloons> lol
[21:28] <balloons> not me!
[21:28] <balloons> :-)
[21:28] <balloons> wow
[21:33] <phillw> balloons: how did the stat pull go for Lubuntu?
[21:41] <balloons> phillw, lol
[21:41] <balloons> phillw, let me pull it
[21:41] <balloons> I didn't realize you said yes
[22:08] <balloons> phillw, I'll email you the results
[22:08] <balloons> incoming
[22:40] <phillw> balloons: soz for delay, on my link speed setting up a new VM is not exactly fun.... http://wiki.qemu.org/KVM does cover what it can currently cover, I know too little about arm to know which of the qemu ARM ones come as default, and which need digging out.
[22:40] <balloons> heh
[22:40] <balloons> it's ok
[22:40] <balloons> I trust you got the mail
[22:42] <phillw> I have chance to catch up, next step is configuring in all IP stuff the new VM needs for it be made 'live'.
[22:44] <phillw> balloons: you have a reply :P
[22:44] <balloons> phillw, how would you want it formatted?
[22:45] <balloons> you can make || into ',' and have a csv more or less
[22:46] <phillw> If the idea is for a '2 week window'. then it is imperrative that results and bugs are carried over. The devs are in cloud cookuu land if they think the few testers we have will do full retests of every flavour of every arch and bug each day.
[22:47] <phillw> test results MUST be carried over.
[22:50] <phillw> they actually need a reality check, if that is what they are pushing for.
[22:51] <phillw> IIRC, there is one lonely amd64+mac tester.... they really do need to understand just how thin on the ground testers are.
[23:01] <balloons> phillw, yes agreed.. But even if there were 100 testers, that's not the right way to go about it
[23:01] <balloons> imho the number of folks on-hand doesn't matter
[23:01] <balloons> it's the classic optimizing before solving issue
[23:02] <balloons> you need to look at the issue and plan accordingly to test..if we don't have the resources, then we'll modify the plan as needed and make it work
[23:02] <phillw> balloons: you okay to chat here, I don't want arguments over this to spill over, is Pm okay?
[23:04] <phillw> proxlinux has gone to bed, I can finalise his new VM later.
[23:05] <balloons> phillw, here is fine
[23:05] <balloons> or pm
[23:06] <phillw> okies. well, the attitude from one contributer that if the flavours cannot make it, they will be dropped was certainly not an attitude that would endear the testers. I do not know of the other teams, but I sure as hell know know my team.....
[23:08] <phillw> Unless and until we can carry bugs / restests over through re-spins during QA halts; never mind from a2 to a3 - cadence is a hiding to nothing.
[23:09] <balloons> phillw, I'd like to talk about bugs for a moment
[23:09] <phillw> I'm all ears
[23:09] <balloons> technically they aren't deleted the following day
[23:09] <balloons> in all honesty my bigger worry is actually the results
[23:09] <phillw> at present, no.
[23:10] <balloons> so quickly.. assuming I want to test the iso each day this week
[23:10] <balloons> let's not talk about why or how
[23:10] <balloons> just that we want to and have good reason
[23:10] <balloons> so, I test today. I see results and bugs.. awesome
[23:10] <balloons> tomorrow, I see nothing about what I or anyone else did today
[23:10] <phillw> But they are not carried forward, this wastes time as a new tester will take the time to report a bug, that is a duplicate.
[23:11] <balloons> it's still "there" but can no longer be seen.. except previous bugs are listed by the submission
[23:11] <balloons> further, as the week progresses, I can't see how the image performed over the week
[23:11] <balloons> did all tests pass everyday?
[23:11] <balloons> how many people tested it?
[23:11] <balloons> did we miss a test and never ran it all week?
[23:11] <phillw> balloons: we refer back to the initial issue.... We do not know.
[23:12] <balloons> phillw, reporting dupes could be better.. but I'm saying there actually is some logic in place to help..
[23:12] <balloons> and there's always triaging
[23:12] <balloons> the bigger issue is what I mentioned above
[23:12] <balloons> at least in my eyes
[23:12] <balloons> it's the fact I reported pass/fail and potential bug
[23:13] <balloons> and now I nor anyone else can really see that result, nor track the "health" of the image
[23:13] <phillw> I agree, but we simply do not have enough testers to test every arch, of every flavour every 24 hours. It is simply not going to happen.
[23:13] <balloons> phillw, I also agree
[23:13] <balloons> but further, as I was trying to say above, even if we did
[23:13] <balloons> we shouldn't
[23:13] <balloons> it doesn't make sense
[23:14] <balloons> I want us as a community to test and add value.. to demonstrate that value and to feel proud of what we achieve
[23:14] <phillw> We cannot even track bugs within a QA freeze..... Let us first walk before we try running?
[23:15] <balloons> phillw, I would say bug tracking could always be better
[23:15] <balloons> but again, there is a report for that
[23:15] <phillw> that is only under a supposed 5 day cadence persiod, we have not even been given them yet?
[23:15] <balloons> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/defects
[23:15] <balloons> for non-milestones.. well.. your out of luck
[23:16] <balloons> aka, what bugs did we find last week? Well, I can cobble that info together
[23:16] <balloons> but it's not readily availible in a nice format
[23:16] <phillw> balloons: we cannot even do it for milestones?
[23:16] <balloons> phillw, what's missing?
[23:16] <balloons> I'm not saying it's part of our workflow or not.. simply that the data is presented in a semi-meaningful way and could be used
[23:18] <phillw> bug reports are erased at each re-spin, when a respin is called for over  'red'-bug(s)', all bugs should be carried over, with the 'red' bug being marked as "We think we've this / them", please retest.
[23:18] <balloons> sent you a mail
[23:18] <balloons> phillw, yes I agree on that
[23:18] <balloons> the specific bugs we respun for should be tested
[23:19] <balloons> 2 issues currently.. why we respin is unclear
[23:19] <balloons> how to test the bug is not given
[23:19] <phillw> that means that for the unsolved ones  people are aware it is still there.
[23:19] <phillw> we do it on release notes?
[23:20] <balloons> yes, it's tracked.. and more or less the "fixer" might verify it worked
[23:20] <balloons> it whatever way I suppose they wish
[23:20] <balloons> but it's not a good workflow and leaves those testing in the dark
[23:20] <balloons> that's part of a larger I'd like to change how the workflow for a milestone happens
[23:21] <phillw> keeping the testers in the dark is the complaint I get.
[23:23] <phillw> they will test an entire suite, then it is completely deleted in terms of results. Even tough it passed as 100%.
[23:23] <balloons> phillw, when I speak with the release team I speak about these issues
[23:23] <balloons> but I want to get more feedback from everyone in the community to voice the same things
[23:23] <balloons> I too am in the dark on things..
[23:24] <balloons> it's never intentional.. there's just roadblocks, technical and otherwise preventing a better system
[23:25] <balloons> It's my goal to tear them all down :-)
[23:25] <balloons> Honestly just having more people talk about it is good.. But now that we've sounded off the problem, we can work on addressing each of the issues one by one
[23:26] <phillw> balloons: I wish you well, The L-QA team are still a vocal bunch of people with good experience. some are testers since 8.04 .... I do tend to verge on what they say about making testing better, as opposed to worse.
[23:27] <phillw> as to what Canonical decide upon, pass. I can only give input for a team, which though I say so myself, are a pretty damn good experienced team.
[23:29] <phillw> balloons: I can still not log on for UDS sposorship? you have my IP blocked? :P
[23:29] <balloons> phillw, no.. it's still not up it seems
[23:29] <balloons> someone else also mentioned it today
[23:30] <phillw> he he, well that stops applications.... on got till 17th to apply :)
[23:30] <phillw> s/on/only
[23:31] <balloons> where did you see that phillw ?
[23:32] <phillw> balloons: http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/08/01/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-4/
[23:32] <phillw> i tend to take his stuff seriously
[23:33] <phillw> I did email him about it, but not had a reply.
[23:34] <balloons> phillw, I will look into it
[23:34] <balloons> thanks for the heads up on how close it was
[23:34] <balloons> I figured there was something wrong temporialy with the site
[23:34] <balloons> keep on me about :-) I don't mind