[00:00] <cr1st0> it says when you remove the speaker icon for example, if you remove this it's lost forever...
[00:00] <Viva_Caligula> GridCube: are package names case sensitive?
[00:01] <Viva_Caligula> ifso, a stupid error on appache's part is keeping me from installing the rest of it, unless i can edit the name of the package
[00:03] <GridCube> Viva_Caligula, all name files are case sensitive, this is linux
[00:05] <Viva_Caligula> so, i need a way of renaming an installed package then
[00:05] <Viva_Caligula> >_<
[00:06] <cr1st0> my problem is solved
[00:06] <GridCube> cr1st0, :) what was it?
[00:07] <cr1st0> dunno it apear again
[00:07] <GridCube> mmhm
[00:29] <Viva_Caligula> Is .deb a rename of a standard compression, or is it a distinct one?
[00:36] <cr1st0> debian
[00:36] <cr1st0> package for debian
[00:43] <Viva_Caligula> I forgot i could I just use dpkg to build it :s
[00:43] <LazarusDS> Greetings all.
[00:43] <LazarusDS> I've got a problem with the indicator that shows volume adjustments. It used to work when I had installed Ubuntu 12.04. But when I installed XFCE 4 to get rid of Unity, it stopped working properly.
[00:43] <LazarusDS> Now it just shows up blank, no matter what my volume is at.
[00:44] <LazarusDS> Volume itself works. And my multimedia keys change volume fine.
[00:44] <LazarusDS> It's the indicator that's broken. T_T
[00:52] <LazarusDS> Gah. my computer crashed.
[00:52] <LazarusDS> Anyone know about the volume indicator thing I was talking about?
[00:53] <GridCube> LazarusDS, did you installed the xubuntu-desktop metapckage?
[00:54] <LazarusDS> I just installed plain Ubuntu 12.04.
[00:54] <David-A> LazarusDS: this is more of a workaround than fixing the real problem: there is a panel applet "mixer" that shows a volume control in the panel. in its preferences you select what mixer control it should control
[00:54] <LazarusDS> Hah. You're in both channels, eh, David-A? :P
[00:54] <GridCube> LazarusDS, go to a terminal and run sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[00:54] <David-A> both? all three!
[00:55] <Viva_Caligula> I edited the control file to correct the case error, and rebuilt it, and now gdebi won't acknowledge that it's been installed, and it just defaults to the old name
[00:55] <Viva_Caligula> >_<
[00:55] <LazarusDS> GridCube: Is that going to change my desktop environment? I like XFCE.
[00:55] <GridCube> LazarusDS, ...
[00:55] <GridCube> that will install xubuntu properly
[00:55] <GridCube> not just xfce
[00:55] <Viva_Caligula> I don't remember installing open office being this much of a pain last time
[00:55] <LazarusDS> I just wanted a different desktop environment. Unity is ugly.
[00:55] <GridCube> all the things you need to have to run xubuntu, it includes more things than just installing xfce
[00:56]  * Viva_Caligula head desk
[00:56] <GridCube> like sound indicators
[00:56] <LazarusDS> So it's not normally suggested to install XFCE by itself?
[00:56] <GridCube> not if you want xubuntu
[00:56] <LazarusDS> When I mentioned I used Ubuntu a few years ago, and liked that interface (GNOME 2), it was suggested that I just install XFCE.
[00:56] <LazarusDS> That's really all I wanted. Was an interface that was like GNOME 2.
[00:56] <GridCube> if you wann xubuntu you install the xubuntu-desktop metapackage
[00:56] <Viva_Caligula> panel, the widgets, thunar, etc are all part of xubuntu, but not sfce itself
[00:56] <GridCube> LazarusDS, you will get that
[00:57] <Viva_Caligula> *xfce
[00:57] <GridCube> Viva_Caligula, no, thats wrong
[00:57] <Viva_Caligula> anybody here installed open office recently? :T
[00:57] <GridCube> xubuntu has an x
[00:57] <GridCube> the x means xfce
[00:57] <GridCube> no xfce is no xubuntu
[00:57] <LazarusDS> So I should go hit the friend who told me to just install xfce? Because that's what broke this? T_T;
[00:57] <GridCube> but only xfce its not xubuntu either
[00:57] <GridCube> LazarusDS, :) just sudo apt-get xubuntu-desktop
[00:58] <GridCube> }{
[00:58] <Viva_Caligula> GridCube: I was saying xubuntu contained all of those things, but xfce is just xfce
[00:58] <GridCube> LazarusDS, :) just sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[00:58] <LazarusDS> "xubuntu desktop is already the newest version".
[00:58] <LazarusDS> So apparently I already have it.
[00:58] <LazarusDS> Next suggestion? :P
[00:58] <GridCube> dunno
[00:58] <Viva_Caligula> sudo apt-get reinstall xubuntu-desktop
[00:58] <Viva_Caligula> ?
[00:58] <GridCube> Viva_Caligula, do man apt-get :P
[00:58] <GridCube> bbl
[00:58] <LazarusDS> Not a valid operation.
[00:59] <Viva_Caligula> GridCube: open office isn't in the repositories, apt-get is useless
[00:59] <Viva_Caligula> do remove then install then
[00:59] <Viva_Caligula> or do a reinstall via synaptic
[01:00] <LazarusDS> I assume I should restart after it reinstalls?
[01:00] <LazarusDS> Or do you not have to in Linux?
[01:00] <Viva_Caligula> you shouldn't have to
[01:01] <LazarusDS> Well, it's done. Indicator's still broken.
[01:01] <Viva_Caligula> try logging out, and starting a new session
[01:01] <Viva_Caligula> you should select xubuntu session rather than xfce session
[01:02] <LazarusDS> It always said xubuntu session.
[01:11] <GridCube> Viva_Caligula, because open office got replaced by the most modern libreoffice
[01:12] <GridCube> its basically just a change in its name though
[01:12] <Viva_Caligula> I stuck with the apache open office branch
[01:12] <GridCube> LazarusDS, check if you create a new user just to test if the indicators are broken for it too
[01:15] <LazarusDS> That's not a bad idea. I'll check that in a minute.
[01:33] <LazarusDS> Okay.
[01:33] <LazarusDS> I made a new user, logged in as an xubunutu session.
[01:33] <LazarusDS> The volume indicator worked.
[01:33] <LazarusDS> And I noticed I was logging into my normal account as an xfce session.
[01:33] <LazarusDS> Changed it to xubunutu.
[01:33] <LazarusDS> Still doesn't work.
[01:33] <LazarusDS> T_T;
[01:34] <Viva_Caligula> it does work in the new account?
[01:34] <LazarusDS> Yeah.
[01:34] <Viva_Caligula> :o idea
[01:35] <Viva_Caligula> try copy/pasting the contents of .config of the new account into your .config, and saying replace on files that are different
[01:46] <LazarusDS> .config?
[01:47] <Viva_Caligula> /home/.config
[01:52] <drc> /home/$USER/.config or more commonly: ~/.config
[01:52] <LazarusDS> ...crashed again.
[01:53] <LazarusDS> Can I get to the new account's config from this one? Or do I have to log back into the new one?
[01:53] <LazarusDS> (I'm a bit new to Linux. Please don't kill me. T_T)
[01:53] <LazarusDS> Huh.
[01:53] <LazarusDS> I found it, but it says permission denied.
[01:54] <Viva_Caligula> open a terminal in that folder and type gksu thunar
[01:55] <Viva_Caligula> wait, you know what?
[01:55] <Viva_Caligula> I think you're better off just using the new account
[01:55] <LazarusDS> Hmm?
[01:55] <LazarusDS> But then I have to re-setup my panels. For a third time. T_T;
[01:55] <David-A> LazarusDS: i suggest, instead of copying from the other user, find and move out the offending config file.
[01:55] <LazarusDS> Hmm?
[01:55] <LazarusDS> What do you mean?
[01:56] <LazarusDS> I got into the new account's .config.
[01:56] <LazarusDS> How would I know what files to copy?
[01:56] <LazarusDS> T_T
[01:57] <David-A> LazarusDS: there are hidden files (dot-files) in your home directory. for personal settings and stuff. some of them has a faulty sound setting. the other user had no such file or a fresh such file.
[01:57] <LazarusDS> Okay.
[01:57] <LazarusDS> I guess that makes sense.
[01:57] <LazarusDS> But how would I be able to tell what file is the culprit?
[01:58] <David-A> LazarusDS: thats what we spend the rest of the night to find out :)
[01:58] <LazarusDS> T_T
[01:58] <LazarusDS> Should I just start listing what files are in the new account's .config?
[01:58] <David-A> LazarusDS: or we kill them all and let god sort it out :)
[01:58] <LazarusDS> Folders: dconf, Thunar, update-notifier, xfce4.
[01:59] <LazarusDS> Files: user-dirs.dirs, user-dirs.locale
[01:59] <LazarusDS> The Thunar folder is empty.
[01:59] <David-A> LazarusDS: first, we dont remove, but move away / move out, so no important info is lost if we want to restore.
[01:59] <LazarusDS> dconf has one file.
[02:00] <LazarusDS> Yeah. I know. I've troubleshooted a computer problem before. Just never on Linux. :P
[02:00] <LazarusDS> The file in dconf is "user", no file extension.
[02:00] <LazarusDS> update-notifier is also empty.
[02:00] <LazarusDS> xfce4 has four folders in it.
[02:00] <LazarusDS> desktop, panel, xfconf, xfwm4.
[02:00] <LazarusDS> Any clue so far?
[02:02] <David-A> LazarusDS: lets move away one at a time, logout/login and see if problem solved (or improved). if no change, move it back and move the next one away.
[02:04] <David-A> LazarusDS: there are alot of dot-files, so try a few most suspect first: .config .gconf .gnome .gnome2
[02:05] <Viva_Caligula> be carefull with the sudo'd thunar though
[02:07] <David-A> LazarusDS: do you need tips for how to move away? if move to a temporary dir or rename to a temporary name?
[02:08] <LazarusDS> Oh, so you want me to just move one of the files out?
[02:08] <David-A> LazarusDS: one? well, one at a time.
[02:08] <LazarusDS> So just like...cut the .config folder out. Put it somewhere for safe keeping. Log out , log back in.
[02:08] <LazarusDS> See if that fixes it.
[02:08] <LazarusDS> If not, put it back, pick a new one.
[02:09] <David-A> LazarusDS: right! have you created a temporary dir for them?
[02:10] <LazarusDS> Not yet, but I'll have that in a 'sec.
[02:10] <LazarusDS> I was just making sure I understood you first.
[02:10] <LazarusDS> When I tried to cut and paste .config, it said "permission denied".
[02:10] <LazarusDS> Despite the fact that I'm still logged in as root.
[02:11] <LazarusDS> ...
[02:11] <LazarusDS> No need.
[02:11] <LazarusDS> I tried the volume control again.
[02:11] <LazarusDS> And it works.
[02:11] <LazarusDS> T_T
[02:11] <LazarusDS> sad;flkkjhasd;ljh
[02:11] <LazarusDS> Stupid thing.
[02:11] <Viva_Caligula> Is a graphical root login as taboo to mention here as it is on the ubuntu forums?
[02:11] <David-A> LazarusDS: you could do it on a detailed level by moving dirs inside .config etc, but we find things much faster if you move the toplevel dotfiles like .config etc.
[02:11] <LazarusDS> No need. It works now.
[02:11] <David-A> LazarusDS: no root please!
[02:12] <LazarusDS> Thanks for all the help, guys.
[02:12] <LazarusDS> I'm glad it works. ^^;
[02:12] <David-A> LazarusDS: the dot-files is owned by you, the temporary dir you created should be owned by you. no copy/paste, just move it, and move it back if needed.
[02:13] <LazarusDS> I don't need to anymore.
[02:13] <LazarusDS> The volume indicator is working now.
[02:13] <LazarusDS> I dunno why.
[02:13] <David-A> LazarusDS: so you moved something. what?
[02:13] <LazarusDS> I restarted, and went into an xubunutu session. It didn't work. But when my computer crashed a second ago, I logged in again.
[02:13] <LazarusDS> And it just works now.
[02:13] <LazarusDS> No. I didn't move anything.
[02:13] <LazarusDS> It wouldn't let me.
[02:14] <David-A> LazarusDS: if you played as root before, maybe permissions problems caused it to not work, or permission problems cause it to work now.
[02:15] <LazarusDS> I didn't though.
[02:15] <LazarusDS> I think it was just that I was logging into an xfce4 session instead of an xubuntu session.
[02:15] <David-A> LazarusDS: just to check no latent problems, check that all dot-files is owned by you and not by root.
[02:17] <LazarusDS> They are.
[02:17] <LazarusDS> I've got read and write access, too.
[02:17] <David-A> LazarusDS: good, what are we going to do the rest of the night now?
[02:17] <Viva_Caligula> would somebody tell me how to enable graphical root login?
[02:17] <LazarusDS> Nothing. XD
[02:18] <Viva_Caligula> I did usermod -p to set the pass, but i can't login to it still
[02:18] <David-A> LazarusDS: did you say icecream? eh, i'm off soon.
[02:18] <LazarusDS> Hahaha.
[02:18] <LazarusDS> Thanks guys. :D
[02:18] <LazarusDS> I'm off.
[02:20] <Viva_Caligula> I think it's still locked somehow, even though i set the pass, i can't get to it from a shell even
[02:21] <Viva_Caligula> >:
[02:22] <David-A> Viva_Caligula: man page for usermod says "-p" takes an encrypted password, did you encrypt it before entering it?
[02:22] <Viva_Caligula> encrypt?
[02:25] <Viva_Caligula> nevermind, i was doing it wrong
[02:25] <Viva_Caligula> >_<
[02:26] <David-A> Viva_Caligula: i guess like: crypt password <<<"banana" but that won't work because it will encrupt a newline at the end of banana, i think
[02:27] <David-A> yea, usermod isn't the easiest way
[02:27] <Viva_Caligula> I got that figured out, now I have another question
[02:27] <Viva_Caligula> is there an easy way to make the login like it was in jaunty ie you to enter the username and pass by hand?
[02:31] <David-A> Viva_Caligula: it is possible to install / choose other session managers, sometimes a different session manager can affect some functions in the desktop environment, but dont remember what. probably not a problem, search for all session managers and try all.
[02:32] <Viva_Caligula> ah, mkay, and 2 more questions, then I'm done pestering for a while
[02:33] <Viva_Caligula> would the karmic xubuntu on this laptop mind if i pointed synaptic at the repositories the precise uses for updated software
[02:34] <Viva_Caligula> and have you tried to install the lastest open office? #openoffice has been no help, and there's a typo in a package name i can't seem to fix causing it
[02:35] <Viva_Caligula> I tried extracting, editing the control file, then rebuilding, but it didn't fix it
[02:41] <Viva_Caligula> in fact, i got no reply at all in #openoffice.org
[03:02] <SexyJ> hi
[03:09] <monzie> Hello everyone
[03:09] <monzie> I installed the GMA 3600 drivers from the Ubuntu PPA and now XFCE4 will not start properly
[03:10] <monzie> I have to manually do a 'startx' or 'startxfce4' and then the desktop environment starts, but XFCE4 then is not able to mount the drive
[04:26] <Viva_Caligula> Client now ignoring all CTCPS
[04:27] <Artemis3> Viva_Caligula, you should not mix repositories from newer versions, it would be messy unless you know pinning and other advanced stuff
[04:27] <Viva_Caligula> Ah, mkay
[04:27] <Artemis3> what you should do is try find a ppa
[04:28] <Viva_Caligula> ppa?
[04:29] <Artemis3> well, first get into an LTS, karmic is a bad idea to use atm, you should go to 10.04 at lease, which was the next version
[04:29] <Viva_Caligula> this is an old install, it works fine atm
[04:29] <Unit193> 12.04 is highest LTS.
[04:30] <Viva_Caligula> I've had issues making a dual boot of karmic and a later version
[04:30] <Artemis3> yes but its unsopported, while 10.04 is still supported
[04:30] <Viva_Caligula> I've beeen trying to get a new install on here >_<
[04:31] <Viva_Caligula> but I'm not touching this one, since if it breaks, I'm up a creek so to speak
[04:31] <Artemis3> i found the ppa, and it supports lucid
[04:31] <Artemis3> the libreoffice ppa
[04:31] <Viva_Caligula> the install I was trying to get openoffice on is precise
[04:32] <Artemis3> well, for production, please try to stick to LTS releases
[04:32] <Artemis3> using and keeping 9.10 was a bad idea, in that case you should have gone to 10.04 and remain there
[04:32] <Artemis3> precise? oh
[04:32] <Viva_Caligula> I was afraid to update when I couldn't get 10.04 to install and word on here
[04:32] <Artemis3> precise uses libreoffice
[04:33] <Viva_Caligula> and this isntall has all the software i typically uses, so *shrug*
[04:33] <Viva_Caligula> I mean I grabbed open office from it's site
[04:33] <Artemis3> libreoffice should open your openoffice files just fine
[04:33] <Artemis3> openoffice is basically dead anyway
[04:33] <Artemis3> the developers moved to libreoffice
[04:34] <Artemis3> which is why the distros switched to libreoffice
[04:35] <Artemis3> libreoffice is in the repositories, you don't have to go to any website, you simply install the package libreoffice
[04:35] <Artemis3> i would also install libreoffice-gtk to make it prettier
[04:35] <Artemis3> and any language files you might need (l10n)
[04:41] <suhaib> hi hi
[04:42] <Viva_Caligula> o_O that didn't really answer my question, you just sort of ran me over with libre office
[04:43] <furrypurs> Is there a reason for using older LTS versions?
[04:43] <furrypurs> I never understood why
[04:43] <furrypurs> for Xubuntu anyway
[04:47] <Artemis3> Viva_Caligula, so what is your question?
[04:47] <Artemis3> With LTS you don't need to upgrade every 6 months, you can wait for the next LTS every 2 years
[04:48] <furrypurs> Artemis3: Libreoffice is quite pretty in xfce 4.10
[04:48] <furrypurs> Oh wait
[04:48] <furrypurs> That's because I do indeed have the libreoffice-gtk installed
[04:48] <Artemis3> production machines can't always afford much downtime, so upgrading every 6 months can be a hassle, while every 2 years a more bearable
[04:49] <Viva_Caligula> it's tjhe same reason why XP os very widespread, it;s stable and working, so no need to push an update
[04:49] <Artemis3> non LTS also get unsupported rather quickly, something you don't want to have in a machine that won't be upgraded for long
[04:49] <Viva_Caligula> grr, typos
[04:51] <Artemis3> you can thing of LTS as "Stable", and the non LTS as "Testing" or "beta", of sorts, i know some would disagree but its the easiest
[04:51] <Artemis3> think
[04:51] <furrypurs> why is power management in Linux not very good?
[04:51] <Artemis3> as you see, right know you could install libreoffice in lucid, but not in karmic.
[04:52] <Artemis3> furrypurs, that depends on the hardware involved, and linux (kernel) version :)
[04:53] <Artemis3> i think Canonical is working those issues with vendors that ship Ubuntu preinstalled, as well as others
[05:05] <xubuntu106> hola
[05:06] <xubuntu106> quicira saber sobre como pesonalizar el xubuntu lo estoy instalando ja estoy imigrando del xp ja
[05:22] <Viva_Caligula> now installing about 1.8GB of packages
[05:23] <Viva_Caligula> i decidced to just go with libreoffice, i grabbed a ton of games, so prgorams i missed, and opencascade to play with
[05:23] <Viva_Caligula> *programs
[05:25] <Artemis3> you are talknig about precise now?
[05:26] <Viva_Caligula> yeah
[05:26] <Artemis3> ok
[05:27] <Viva_Caligula> How does opencascade compare to autodesk inventor?
[05:27] <Viva_Caligula> been ages since i messed with 3d cad software
[05:28] <Artemis3> I'm afraid thats not an area of my expertise ;) try asking in #ubuntu-offtopic
[05:31] <Viva_Caligula> in the precise install I'm getting random 'hiccups'
[05:31] <Viva_Caligula> like the system goes unresponsive for a second, then back to normal
[05:31] <Artemis3> define hiccups
[05:31] <Artemis3> hmm
[05:31] <Artemis3> ram?
[05:31] <Artemis3> gpu?
[05:31] <Viva_Caligula> it'll do a few cycles of that, then normal for a while
[05:32] <Artemis3> compositor enabled or disabled
[05:32] <Viva_Caligula> Ah, I'll check ram but i have a ~5gb swap partition
[05:32] <Artemis3> how much ram you have, and what gpu
[05:32] <Artemis3> (i'm not a friend of large swap partitions ;)
[05:32] <Artemis3> but that shouldn't matter
[05:33] <Artemis3> you could lower your swappiness, adding vm.swappiness=10 to your /etc/sysctl.conf
[05:34] <Viva_Caligula> Artemis3: I'm not doing anything graphic intensive, just watching music videos on youtube, and it's the built in video
[05:34] <Artemis3> also fstab could use noatime in your partitions
[05:34] <Artemis3> how much ram do you have?
[05:34] <Viva_Caligula> machine has 1gb of ram, but i can't see the usage very well in the feault monitor, so i have to wait for snyaptic to finish doing it's thing
[05:34] <Viva_Caligula> *default
[05:35] <Artemis3> why did you make such a large swap partition? would have been about 2g by default
[05:35] <Viva_Caligula> I gave 35gb to xp, 35 to precise, and just set the rest as swap
[05:36] <Viva_Caligula> this machine (the karmic one) has 4gb of ram, and i set swap to 10 for the heck of it
[05:36] <Artemis3> hmm
[05:36] <Artemis3> oh well its your wasted disk space, shouldn't matter much
[05:36] <Viva_Caligula> this one has a 350gb disk, i could never fill it anywho
[05:37] <Artemis3> as long as you fix your swappiness
[05:37] <Viva_Caligula> after i can get a better system monitor, (5 minutes maybe) I'll see what the ram and swap are doing
[05:38] <Artemis3> what do you mean? you can use the one included in xubuntu
[05:38] <Viva_Caligula> that one has a tiny graph for ram I can't tell what the marks represent, and doesn't show swap
[05:39] <Artemis3> add to the panel
[05:39] <Artemis3> there is one with swap usage, and such
[05:39] <Viva_Caligula> it's a lot less usefull than the default one in karmic >:T
[05:40] <Artemis3> my own machines, don't have swap anymore, at work we use 1g of swap, no matter the physical ram (usually from 1 to 4g)
[05:41] <Artemis3> you rarely use swap with normal desktop usage anyway, and when you do, you are in trouble
[05:42] <Viva_Caligula> that precise machine is just a single core 1.83 i think, so maybe i'm expecting a tad much of it
[05:42] <Viva_Caligula> although i'm not really doing anything resource intensive atm
[05:42] <Artemis3> the other use for swap is to hibernate, then you need 100.1% of your physical
[05:42] <Viva_Caligula> hibernate?
[05:42] <Artemis3> yes, its like suspend, only it copies the concent from ram to swap, and fully shuts down
[05:43] <Artemis3> content
[05:43] <Artemis3> when you suspend the machine, the whole thing but the memory banks are powered down, the memory keeps refreshing.
[05:43] <Viva_Caligula> oh, I never do things like that, it's either on, or shutdown
[05:44] <Artemis3> can't recall windows nomenclature for that, or even macosx, but they have it as well
[05:44] <Artemis3> then you don't have to bother :)
[05:44] <Artemis3> its useful for laptops tho
[05:44] <Artemis3> netbooks, tablets, that mobile stuff...
[05:45] <Viva_Caligula> both machines are laptops, but I don't use them when moving around
[05:46] <Artemis3> suppose you want to "freeze" your work, without wasting energy, you "hibernate" the machine. Come back, push the power button and the machine returns the way it was before you froze it.
[05:46] <Viva_Caligula> woo, it's finished downloading
[05:46] <Artemis3> thats the idea but perhaps you don't need it, and i can understand, Xfce can save sessions, and Firefox too, so its not that important
[05:46] <Viva_Caligula> now it has to setup everything
[05:47] <Viva_Caligula> I noticed something in precise that got me wondering, when did xubuntu stop making you jump through a hoop for graphical root login?
[05:48] <Artemis3> jump through a hoop?
[05:48] <Viva_Caligula> all I had to do was give root a password, and it worked, but on jaunty and karmic i've had to find some setting and change it
[05:49] <Artemis3> hmm
[05:49] <Artemis3> been a long while since i did that...
[05:50] <Artemis3> what setting would that be
[05:50] <Viva_Caligula> I'd ask on the ubuntu forums, but you get disowned there for even mentioning graphical root
[05:50] <Artemis3> oh
[05:50] <Artemis3> of course
[05:50] <Artemis3> you should not do that
[05:50] <Artemis3> and i was thinking console login
[05:50] <Artemis3> which should work just fine
[05:51] <Artemis3> the setting must relate to graphical, which you should never do
[05:51] <Artemis3> as a matter of fact, you should avoid using root
[05:51] <Viva_Caligula> I'm not the most proficient at terminal use, so it's saved me quite a bit of time in a few cases
[05:51] <Viva_Caligula> but generally I avoid using it
[05:52] <Artemis3> even in graphics, you can get temporal root with gksudo and friends, don't see why would anyone login as root
[05:53] <Viva_Caligula> I mainly just like having the option to
[05:55] <Artemis3> its regarded as very unsafe, thats why its not recommended.
[05:57] <Artemis3> you can trash your system, malicious software could also do it, and attackers would have a juicy target there. root should be avoided like a plague :)
[05:58] <Artemis3> normally remote root login is disabled as well
[05:59] <Viva_Caligula> if i want to shut down quickly via a shell, it's only 26 keystrokes instead of 38? XD
[06:05] <Artemis3> sudo shutdown -h now ?
[06:06] <Artemis3> there is also alt sysrq reisuo
[06:06] <Viva_Caligula> what's the h flag do again?
[06:06] <Artemis3> halt
[06:07] <Viva_Caligula> ah, my count was for without the -h flag
[06:07] <Viva_Caligula> and what keys are sysrq and reisuo?
[06:08] <Artemis3> might be not needed but i got used to it
[06:08] <Artemis3> to distinguish from -r perhaps
[06:09] <Viva_Caligula> and odd request but is there a way to induce a kernel panic to see what one looks like?
[06:09] <Artemis3> the key for print screen, when invoked using ALT, becomes SysRq
[06:10] <Artemis3> while holding those two, you slowly push the letters one by one
[06:10] <Viva_Caligula> ohh
[06:10] <Artemis3> the last letter, o is to turn off, or b to reboot
[06:11] <Viva_Caligula> could that be used on a system that's crashing so hard it refuses to bring a shell up?
[06:11] <Artemis3> yes
[06:11] <Artemis3> better than hard reset if it works
[06:11] <Artemis3> gives one last chance to sync the disk, etc, also pushing the power button a single time might do the trick
[06:11] <Viva_Caligula> oh, neat, I have another option now
[06:12] <Artemis3> its good for emergencies
[06:13] <Artemis3> like, i need to shut down the machine now, now, now... reisuo is faster than single pushing power, less waiting :)
[06:13] <Artemis3> pressing the keys can be tricky tho
[06:13] <Viva_Caligula> odd question, but is there a way to induce a "test" kernel panic, sorta like how you can trigger a bsod in windows
[06:14] <Viva_Caligula> only kernel panic I've seen was during the boot of a corrupt live cd
[06:15] <Artemis3> heh, maybe c?
[06:16] <Artemis3> haven't tried ;)
[06:16] <Artemis3> "Reboot kexec and output a crashdump"
[06:17] <Artemis3> l sounds interesting too
[06:34] <Viva_Caligula> linux seems to be too stable to panic at will :P
[06:35] <Viva_Caligula> windows is fairly easy to with 3rd party tools, just kill a process that the default task manager won't let you
[06:36] <Viva_Caligula> but that's about like jamming a peice or rebar into a gearbox to stop it
[06:42] <Viva_Caligula> it'd be neat if i could just call panic() via a shell, but that routine being triggerable from userland is stupid at best
[08:31] <Guest81857> A
[08:31] <aeternum_solus> B
[08:32] <Guest81857> C
[08:32] <Guest81857> D
[08:32] <Guest81857> E
[08:32] <Guest81857> F
[08:32] <Guest81857> G
[08:32] <Guest81857> H
[08:32] <Guest81857> I
[08:32] <Guest81857> J
[08:32] <Guest81857> K
[08:32] <Guest81857> L
[08:32] <Guest81857> M
[08:32] <aeternum_solus> ok.. that's enough
[08:32] <Guest81857> N
[08:32] <Guest81857> O
[08:32] <Guest81857> P
[08:32] <Guest81857> Q
[08:33] <Guest81857> FUCK XUBUNTU FUCK XUBUNTU FUCK XUBUNTU FUCK XUBUNTU
[08:33] <Guest81857> FUCK XUBUNTU FUCK XUBUNTU FUCK XUBUNTU
[08:33] <Guest81857> FUCK XUBUNTU FUCK XUBUNTU FUCK XUBUNTU FUCK XUBUNTU
[08:33] <aeternum_solus> wow. just wow
[08:33] <knome> yeah.
[13:41] <xubuntu190> c.è qualcuno IT?
[13:41] <bazhang> !it | xubuntu190
[14:21] <xubuntu190> qualcuno lo ha usato in virtuale su VM?
[14:22] <bazhang> !vm | xubuntu190
[14:23] <bazhang> xubuntu190, english here please
[14:23] <xubuntu190> ok! thanks.
[14:24] <bazhang> try virtual box xubunt augh
[16:09] <martinphone> would something happen to my laptop if I leave it on downloading torrents for 5 full days? thats 120 straight hours
[16:10] <martinphone> cooling is ok, machine is on 6 cm blocks
[16:10] <Viva_Caligula> no
[16:10] <Viva_Caligula> my laptop is on 24/7 with no issues
[16:11] <Viva_Caligula> my max uptime has been around 1 month, but that's only becuase i had to shut it down to take it somewhere
[16:11] <Sysi> netbook keeping up my home network has been up for 254 days, but it's not running xorg of course
[16:12] <martinphone> Viva_Caligula, do you have any extra measure to cool it off? extra fan?
[16:13] <Sysi> martinphone: your machine should get any hotter within a day than it gets during couple hours
[16:13] <Viva_Caligula> it's just sitting on a piece of foam core posterboard with plastic bottle cams (the kind of 2-liters) under the two back feet
[16:13] <Viva_Caligula> *caps
[16:14] <martinphone> Sysi, should or shouldn't?
[16:14] <Viva_Caligula> but I keep my heatsink free of dust, and reapply thermal grease when I clean the heatsink
[16:15] <martinphone> googling for heatsink
[16:15] <martinphone> is that like a cooling dock?
[16:15] <Viva_Caligula> I mean the internal heatsink of the laptop
[16:15] <martinphone> still need googling
[16:16] <Viva_Caligula> to be compact, laptops have a heatsink with a blower pushing air through it, then heat pipes going to the cpu and gpu if it has one
[16:17] <Viva_Caligula> http://fatpenguinblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/heatsink.jpg
[16:17] <Viva_Caligula> like so, although they may be in different places
[16:17] <Viva_Caligula> the heatsink is to the left of the fan, the copper bar is the heat pipe
[16:18] <Viva_Caligula> the circled thing is a clmap to hold the heat pipe to the cpu
[16:18] <Viva_Caligula> *clamp
[16:18] <Viva_Caligula> my typing seems worse than usual today
[16:19] <Sysi> martinphone: shouldn't
[16:19] <martinphone> ok, I was thinking of thermal pipes as heatsink
[16:19] <martinphone> now i see it
[16:19] <Sysi> if it overheats bios should turn it off
[16:22] <martinphone> thx Viva_Caligula
[16:26] <atmega8> ... watercooling is better than a heatpipe :)
[16:28] <Viva_Caligula> how would you fit watercooling inside a laptop?
[16:30] <aquix> if you get a case, it might work
[16:31] <atmega8> I can only see the last 5 comments ... but this is not impossible ;)
[16:32] <atmega8> since: "Sysi> martinphone: shouldn't"
[16:32] <aquix> Viva_Caligula     lol, nice nick
[16:33] <martinphone> too much work, is it worth it?
[16:34] <martinphone> thermal grease can only be applied to the heatsink, right?
[16:34] <martinphone> can I add thermal grease to the heat pipes?
[16:34] <martinphone> thermal pipes*
[16:34] <Sysi> that makes them collect more dust or what?
[16:35] <aquix> 4kpgjx
[16:35] <Sysi> that's quite short password
[16:36] <aquix> one time password for my bank
[16:36] <Sysi> martinphone: thermal paste is only applied between cpu and heatsing, not matter if heatsink uses heatpipes or not
[16:36] <Viva_Caligula> the thermal pipes are usally welded or pressed to the heatsink
[16:39] <cr1st0> will this work in xubuntu?
[16:39] <cr1st0> http://sourceforge.net/projects/backtrackubuntu/files/
[16:39] <cr1st0> ?
[16:40] <cr1st0> to add the backtrack menu in xubuntu
[16:41] <Sysi> I think it should
[16:42] <cr1st0> it will update stuff to new tools and that shit?
[16:43] <aquix> I dualboot bt5. makes things much easier and cleaner
[16:45] <cr1st0> humm dual boot just for bt5...
[16:49] <Artemis3> bt is an ubuntu derivate, you only need to install the same packages to achieve the same.
[16:49] <Pici> !backtrack
[17:50] <Maccer> So when will xubuntu start being compiled in i686?  Not that it matters since I use mostly x64 libs anyways.
[17:51] <Viva_Caligula> i686? o_O
[17:52] <Maccer> Yes Viva_Caligula, also, ubuntu 12.10 is getting some intel hardware optimizations and it's noticeably faster according to phoronix.
[17:52] <Maccer> Let me x-post that to #ubuntu
[17:52] <Maccer> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_1210_intelivy&num=1
[17:52] <Viva_Caligula> never heard of that system before
[17:53] <Viva_Caligula> have any idea what q words they're gonna pick for the new release?
[17:53] <Viva_Caligula> I'll prolly stick with precise since it's lts
[17:53] <v1adimir> quantal is around the corner, basically anyway
[17:53] <v1adimir> couple of months now
[17:54] <Viva_Caligula> ah, quantal
[17:54] <v1adimir> :)
[17:54] <Viva_Caligula> this laptop has karmic though :x
[17:54] <v1adimir> somehow i always have to move to the new version, idk why :s
[17:54] <Sysi> Maccer: 12.04 is last to work pre-i686, mainubuntu already abandoned it
[17:55] <Viva_Caligula> I was afraid to update when i couldn't get lucid to install
[17:55] <Maccer> Sysi: Oh yeah, I know that.  But almost all cpus after 1995 are going to work with i686
[17:55] <Sysi> yup
[17:56] <v1adimir> Viva_Caligula: i couldn't get precise to install from the DVD, just livecd install on this system
[17:56] <Maccer> And xubuntu isn't lightweight in relation to that kind of hardware anymore.
[17:56] <Sysi> i686 support isn't going anywhere for years
[17:56] <Viva_Caligula> I've only used the live cd's
[17:56] <v1adimir> meh i thought why not get it with all the software..
[17:56] <v1adimir> but no go =)
[17:57] <Viva_Caligula> I'm not for sure if xubuntu even has a dvd version
[17:57] <v1adimir> pretty sure it does
[17:57] <Viva_Caligula> I already uninstall half the stuff the cd version put in though :P
[17:58] <Viva_Caligula> *puts
[17:59] <Viva_Caligula> anybody know why xubuntu switched to including leafpad instead of mousepad by defualt?
[17:59] <Sysi> mousepad died
[17:59] <Viva_Caligula> eh?
[18:00] <Sysi> not developed anymore
[18:01] <Viva_Caligula> i've stuck with mousepad, but mainly to keep the command the same on both my machines
[18:02] <baizon> leafpad is like mousepad
[18:05] <Viva_Caligula> yeah, they're more or less the same thing
[18:06] <Viva_Caligula> there's a channel along the name of #foobarandgrill, but i can't seem to figure out the exact name
[18:06] <Viva_Caligula> >_<
[18:07] <Sysi> ask alis
[18:08] <drc> ##foobar&grill
[18:08] <Viva_Caligula> thanks
[18:11] <p01nt3r> hello. cant get my tv-out in color with nv17a(quadro nvs 400) under xubuntu 10.04 using nouveau. any ideas?
[18:27] <Os_Maleus> does anybody know how to see dcom- or efile-data from a cd? these should be medical images (x-ray-pictures).
[18:27] <Viva_Caligula> kinda esoteric, but I'm sure somebody's made software for it
[18:28] <Viva_Caligula> try prodding google to see if it'll tell you anything
[18:29] <Pici> Os_Maleus: there are a number of dicom related packages in the repositories if you do a search
[18:30] <Os_Maleus> actually, it seems to me that this kind of data is handed out this way from several medical institutions. on Win and Mac, the trouble with it seems not to be that huge - the CD contains a folder with an "eFile...exe".
[18:31] <Viva_Caligula> did the exe not work in wine?
[18:35] <Os_Maleus> Pici: I have installed now dicom3tools, dicomscope, and python-dicom. ... but I seem to be too stupid to find the proper data to open.
[18:35] <Os_Maleus> Viva_Caligula: http://pastebin.com/B47JSzAT <- Error message
[18:37] <Os_Maleus> google is talking about some dcm-files. but neither these nor some picture-related file-types are located on the CD.
[18:37] <Pici> Os_Maleus: they're likely CLI tools. aeskulap or dicomscope are more likely to be graphical utilities.
[18:40] <Os_Maleus> Pici: http://pastebin.com/qNEd4MAh <- Error with dicomscope ... can You propose me how to rescue that?
[18:41] <Pici> Os_Maleus: I don't really know enough about java to be of help.
[18:42] <Os_Maleus> Pici: okay, I will give aeskulap a try, then.
[19:01] <Os_Maleus> Pici: well, at least it is possible to see those files at all with this aeskulap. ... thanks for mentioning and proposal!
[19:01] <Pici> Os_Maleus: sure thing
[20:25] <Artemis3> baizon, leafpad has an ugly bug, saves things with lf (macos style) endings. many scripts edited with leafpad will fail to parse, avoid.
[20:26] <Sysi> not configurable?
[20:27] <Artemis3> you must remember to move it at save time
[20:27] <Artemis3> but if one day you are in a hurry...
[20:30] <Artemis3> why it defaults to macos endings is beyond my comprehension, it should be a bug to do that in a unix style system
[20:36] <David-A> Artemis3: lf is unix style line ending (good for bash scripts), macos style is cr. I assume you mean cr, what version of leafpad saves with cr?
[20:36] <xubuntu639> hi
[20:36] <xubuntu639> just passing some time while xubuntu is installing
[20:37] <David-A> hi
[20:37] <Artemis3> David-A, it is the other way around...
[20:37] <Artemis3> maybe you develop leafpad? lol
[20:38] <Unit193> Would be nice if they changed the default, yes.
[20:38] <Guest5953> hi
[20:38] <Guest5953>  a cant turn on sound on my xubuntu...
[20:38] <Guest5953> on deban was ok
[20:38] <Guest5953> on mint linux was ok but on xubuntu isnt
[20:38] <Guest5953> have alasa mixer
[20:38] <Guest5953> and unmute all
[20:38] <holstein> Guest5953: i would double check the mute in the GUI... the sound in the tray.. i find, you mute with the keyboard, and the keyboard doesnt unmute
[20:39] <holstein> Guest5953: you can run aplay -l in a terminal if you'd like to confirm that the device is "present"
[20:39] <Guest5953> ok will check it now
[20:40] <holstein> also, if you werent using XFCE on debian, or mint, then you might just want to take some time to get used to the XFCE tools and ways of tweaking
[20:41] <Guest5953> hmm i check icon of sound on xfce = xfce mikser and voice is unmute... check alsa mixer gnome and there I unmuted all too...
[20:41] <Unit193> May want to take a look at pavucontrol.
[20:41] <Guest5953> check turn on voice on the keyboard buttons and its ok too
[20:42] <Artemis3> run speaker-test in a terminal, and alsamixer in another, and try moving things
[20:42] <holstein> yeah... thats next, assuming you see something in aplay -l, i would do as Unit193 suggests, and installl pavucontrol
[20:42] <holstein> dont trust labels in alsamixer
[20:42] <David-A> Artemis3: really LF=10=0x0A, CR=13=0x0D, LF is line ending in unix, CR in classic mac (and I didn't make leafpad)
[20:42] <Guest5953> so syoudl install pavcontrol?
[20:42] <Guest5953> shoudl...
[20:43] <Guest5953> ok will do it now
[20:44] <Guest5953> hmm i have it
[20:44] <Guest5953> so what shoudl to do next?
[20:48] <Artemis3> something is fishy here, anyway i had to move to gedit to make my preseed file be parsed again -_-
[20:49] <holstein> Guest5953: i would open it, and see if it helps you get your sound working.. you should be able to see if the device is present and being used
[20:49] <Guest5953> i little dont understand of logs form aplay -l
[20:49] <Artemis3> asuuming lf is correct then it might be leafpad is not using lf when told to
[20:49] <Guest5953> can paste bin this logs
[20:50] <Artemis3> argh ill stick to gedit
[20:50] <Viva_Caligula> tried mousepad or nano?
[20:50] <Artemis3> they work fine
[20:51] <Artemis3> it was only when i edited with leafpad... anyway doesnt matter
[20:51] <Guest5953> http://paste.debian.net/183567/
[20:54] <holstein> Guest5953: that is your hardware.. so, i think its something with the muting, or volume control.. or config
[20:57] <Guest5953> but everythink is turn on ... alasmixer under konsole... button from keyboard, icons from all gui alamixer ...
[20:57] <Guest5953> and fxce mixer...
[20:57] <Guest5953> and dont work even speaker
[20:58] <holstein> Guest5953: i would just keep doulbe checking.. and try pavucontrol
[20:58] <Guest5953> how can I use pavucontrol?
[20:58] <holstein> Guest5953: i would just open it up, and give it a look.. check out the options in the GUI
[20:59] <Guest5953> hmm on sudo?
[20:59] <holstein> Guest5953: nah.. i would have said sudo
[20:59] <Guest5953> ok so sudo pavucontrol
[20:59] <Guest5953> :)
[21:00] <holstein> Guest5953: nope.. thats not what i said..
[21:00] <Guest5953> a ok
[21:00] <holstein> Guest5953: i would literally click on it in the menu.. pulse audio volume control
[21:00] <holstein> OR, open it from the terminal.. or alt+F2
[21:00] <Guest5953> conection of pulse audio failed
[21:01] <holstein> Guest5953: you might wnat to look for and apply all updates...
[21:01] <holstein> want*
[21:01] <Guest5953> ok will check it
[21:02] <Guest5953> update perl-modules perl-base and chromium
[21:02] <Guest5953> os was updated
[21:03] <Ofloo> weird does anyone got any idea why ia32-libs won't install
[21:03] <Ofloo> from what i gather it's it has conflicting packages with compiz and qt4
[21:05] <moveer-envigado> i've got a problem with my flash-player plugin
[21:05] <moveer-envigado> it does not play any thing in youtube
[21:05] <Ofloo> sudo apt-get install flashplayer-nonfree?
[21:06] <Ofloo> sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree?
[21:06] <moveer-envigado> boot?
[21:06] <Ofloo> eithersorry
[21:06] <moveer-envigado> or just one of them
[21:06] <Ofloo> sudo apt-get install flashplugin-downloader
[21:06] <Ofloo> this one
[21:06] <Ofloo> the nonfree was from ubuntu
[21:06] <moveer-envigado> ok thks i will try
[21:06] <Ofloo> before precise
[21:07] <David-A> Ofloo: you have a 64 bit system (command "uname -m" says 64 something)? does it say why it won't install? error message?
[21:07] <Ofloo> yes i have an 64bit system
[21:07] <Ofloo> i'm trying to install ia32-libs for android sdk
[21:07] <Ofloo> but for some reason it won't let me install some libs :i386
[21:07] <Ofloo> they conflict with compiz and some other opengl stuff
[21:08] <Guest5953> ok pavucontrol is ok
[21:08] <Guest5953> and is turn on
[21:08] <Guest5953> but voice still isnt
[21:09] <Guest5953> any ideas?
[21:09] <Ofloo>  libglu1-mesa:i386 ibglapi-mesa:i386 libqt4-opengl:i386 libgl1-mesa-glx:i386
[21:09] <Ofloo> sorry with those packages
[21:09] <Ofloo> can't be installed if i do they'll uninstall those regular packages
[21:09] <Ofloo> and compiz and xubuntu-desktop
[21:09] <Ofloo> and so forth
[21:10] <Ofloo> cause it seems they depend on it
[21:10] <moveer-envigado> sorry, but it does not shows anything
[21:11] <David-A> I would suspect something with dependensies in the android sdk packages. I haven't use it. Is it a ppa or .deb?
[21:11] <Ofloo> it wants to uninstall these when i manually install them
[21:11] <Ofloo> http://pastebin.com/G5eVGzGw
[21:12] <Ofloo> David-A: no it's not a ppa
[21:12] <Guest5953> :/
it does not shows anything
[21:12] <Ofloo> when i sudo apt-get install libglu1-mesa:i386 libglapi-mesa:i386 libqt4-opengl:i386 libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 it wants to remove those in the pastebin
[21:12] <moveer-envigado> show*
[21:14] <Ofloo> http://pastebin.com/KwxaE4Aq
[21:14] <Ofloo> i hope this helps
[21:15] <David-A> Ofloo: so it is a .deb then. is the .deb for 32bit and there was no 64bit? or more exactly, what .deb is the sdk and from where?
[21:15] <Ofloo> David-A: just the normal one from android
[21:15] <Guest5953> http://pastebin.com/wqAy1kTh this is log form syslog
[21:15] <Guest5953> maybe it will help
[21:16] <Ofloo> David-A: it's a gz
[21:16] <Ofloo> it is installed it doesn't require debs
[21:16] <Ofloo> the problem is that it does require you to install ia32-libs
[21:16] <Ofloo> cause it's a 32bit compilation
[21:17] <Ofloo> but from what i gather it's impossible that this is the reason why ia32libs won't install
[21:19] <Ofloo>   libgl1-mesa-dev libgl1-mesa-dri libgl1-mesa-glx libglapi-mesa libglu1-mesa
[21:19] <Ofloo>   libglu1-mesa-dev libxatracker1 mesa-common-dev
[21:19] <Ofloo> just got an dist-upgrade
[21:19] <Ofloo> and it seems that it is going to work
[21:20] <Ofloo> yep it's installing for now
[21:20] <Ofloo> after apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[21:20] <Ofloo> those packages
[21:20] <Ofloo> they just came in though
[21:20] <Ofloo> did an upgrade this morning
[21:21] <Ofloo> so i guess the bug is fixed
[21:21] <Ofloo> someone read my mind
[21:21] <Ofloo> :p
[21:21] <David-A> Ofloo: ok, just don't let it uninstall all that was listed befora. can you insall ia32-libs now without it wanting to uninstall any?
[21:23] <Ofloo> yes
[21:23] <Ofloo> i double checked
[21:23] <Ofloo> for some reason now it works
[21:23] <Ofloo> miraculously
[22:42] <suhaib> do you know how can I remove the loading screen of Xubuntu and replace it with Text to see what is loading ?
[22:43] <suhaib> example : package loaded [success] another package loaded [Fail}
[22:45] <TheSheep> suhaib: add 'nomodeset' to the kernel options
[22:46] <TheSheep> suhaib: either at boot time or in /etc/defaults/grub
[22:48] <suhaib> TheDrums, But wouldn't that make me boot in a low graphic system ? Like the mode will make the PC ignore the proprietary drivers for my VGA card
[22:49] <suhaib> TheDrums, Correct me if am wrong !
[22:57] <TheSheep> suhaib: you are wrong, but I don't really feel like correcting you
[22:57] <TheSheep> good night
[22:58] <knome> nighty sheepy!
[22:58] <knome> (too)
[23:07] <suhaib> TheDrums, LOL epic
[23:07] <suhaib> TheSheep, , LOL epic
[23:08] <TheDrums> You keep talking at me, but never to me....
[23:08] <suhaib> LOL just now I realized that
[23:09] <suhaib> TheDrums, BAD START >_<
[23:11] <suhaib> TheDrums, TheSheep  one of you guyz should change his name ! to make it easier for us :P
[23:20] <knome> suhaib, not really, just use some attention and patience brain cells
[23:23] <suhaib> knome, I think its hard !! especially if you are checking 5 channels :))
[23:24] <knome> suhaib, i'm on 13; you get used to it
[23:25] <suhaib> knome, :)) wow
[23:26] <suhaib> knome, Which books did you read so far ?
[23:27] <knome> (offtopic in #xubuntu-offtopic)
[23:27] <knome> (you're welcome!)
[23:27] <suhaib> ahaaa
[23:28] <suhaib> do you know which channel they talk about linux books ?
[23:28] <knome> maybe ##linux
[23:29] <suhaib> they have more than 1000 users ! I think it would be hard to go offtopic
[23:29] <knome> channels with ## in the beginning mean they are general channels and usually more relaxed; i think your discussion would fit well there
[23:30] <suhaib> Ohhh
[23:46] <libresource> Anyone running alpha? I was wondering if Dedoimedo's "pimp tips" are being incorporated...
[23:51] <knome> they aren't.
[23:53] <knome> there's some improvement planned for the desktop icon text bg, but i'm not sure if that's "up" yet
[23:53] <libresource> in a image search it looks like they removed the coloring around the desktop icons' text
[23:53] <knome> yes; that user did
[23:55] <libresource> his "tips" seem good to me... something a noob would want to boot into for the first time
[23:57] <knome> he's proposing a lot of changes; the xubuntu team won't do those changes because 1) they wouldn't be as well maintained 2) they might not be ideal for a certain group of our users 3) it's easy enough to change the preferences yourself too
[23:57] <knome> consider that as freedom of choice and good configurability; it's not like we're stopping the users from doing modifications
[23:58] <knome> we're just making sure the defaults are sane for most
[23:58] <libresource> i understand points #2 and #3, not superadmin enough to understand why #1 is problem, tho
[23:59] <libresource> +1 for freedom of modification
[23:59] <knome> i'm speaking from the OS level of maintainability, not single systems
[23:59] <knome> if xubuntu decides to use something, we'd better make sure it works after 6 months (or 36 months!) too.