[00:12] but maybe over here [00:16] mmh, true [00:18] I like the ones that were originally on the main page, the "new to" ones are kind meh [00:18] maybe keep chapter 4 link [00:18] btw, we have this too: file:///usr/share/doc/xfce4-utils/html/C/index.html [00:18] oh brother [00:19] I forgot about that [00:19] hehe [00:19] well, we can use that... [00:19] :] [00:19] but it's 2008 too.. ;] [00:19] yeah, link to it [00:19] hah [00:19] (at best.) [00:19] maybe they updated it for 4.10 :) [00:19] some parts are 2004 [00:19] This manual describes xfwm4 version 4.8.3 [00:19] says the xfwm page, for example [00:20] i think they had the idea to update [00:20] but i'm not sure if anything good came out of that [00:20] we could just rewrite that too. [00:20] ;] [00:20] hahah [00:20] it doesn't really seem to take too long to rewrite some stuff. [00:20] ok, you sleep on monday, wednesday and friday, I get tuesday, thursday and saturday [00:20] hehe [00:21] do i need to sleep at all if i don't want to? [00:21] bits stop working after you don't sleep for a couple days [00:21] not really. [00:21] only after 4 days. [00:21] hah [00:21] I think we ignore xfce for now [00:22] i used to be able to do *months* with a few hours of sleep per night when i was younger... [00:22] ah, to be young again! [00:22] yeah. young, arrogant and all that stuff. [00:22] anyway... back to docs [00:22] :) [00:22] "backing and support" clearly doesn't deserve its own subpage [00:23] so does not "version and release numbers" [00:23] yeah [00:23] I think both can go under "What is Xubuntu?" [00:23] yup [00:23] i'll do that. [00:24] do we want to create a 3. Installing and upgrading [00:24] and pretty much copy docs from the website? [00:24] hmm. [00:24] i'm thinking how much our users would benefit from having "installing" there [00:24] they are already running the cd at least [00:25] yeah [00:28] oh but yeah, i suppose we would benefit of such section [00:28] even if it was just upgrading [00:28] mostly I was just trying to find a home for upgrading :) [00:28] but maybe we could group that with the existing 3 [00:28] "uprading" [00:28] "migrating from other OS'es" [00:29] hm [00:29] "importing their favorites from Microsoft Internet Explorer 6" hehe, IE6 [00:29] "heh"... [00:29] remember 2003?! [00:29] :) [00:30] i was 17 then [00:30] i suppose i barely do [00:30] lol [00:30] that was about when i met my wife [00:31] I was 22 and working at a webdev firm, trying to continue supporting IE5 and swearing a lot :x [00:31] browser compatibility pain is what made me learn I wasn't cut out for webdev :) [00:31] hah :) [00:31] like IE6 wasn't still a pain... [00:32] ok, see http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/What%20is%20Xubuntu%3F now [00:32] maybe just make Upgrading its own thing, I can't think of how to merge it with "if you've been using windows" [00:33] gimme 2mins and i'll tell you [00:33] that's nice [00:33] main page "Getting up-to-date" [00:33] "whether you're coming from windows or upgrading your old xubuntu installation..." [00:34] \o/ [00:34] well, that's just an idea [00:34] ok [00:34] but i don't want too many pages [00:34] it does imply that windows isn't up to date :) [00:34] it's just horrible to even look at the old TOC [00:34] heh, well is it? :P [00:35] it's certainly not as shiny as linux [00:35] or just "Migrating and Upgrading" [00:35] yeah that's good [00:35] Migrating from Windows [00:35] Upgrading from an older version of Xubuntu [00:36] mental note to self: do not typo page names [00:38] mmh, then we need to suppress those windows pages :) [00:38] hmm [00:38] i just noticed you were editing the page [00:38] :D [00:39] haha, sorry [00:39] fixed a little typo, I'm out now [00:39] the lock should be a hard lock [00:39] well i updated already :P [00:39] no conflicts, we're ok [00:39] hehe, good [00:39] i think the "glossary of windows terms" is actually quite useful, but that isn't quite what the title says [00:40] it's more like a windows-linux dictionary [00:41] heh, file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html [00:42] yeah, what do you call a thing that translates terms [00:43] dictionary? :P [00:43] isn't that essentially what it is [00:43] we should drop some of the stuff there, but some are good [00:43] yeah [00:43] like control panel <> settings manager [00:44] I don't think I know enough about Windows anymore [00:44] (and stuff under "system") [00:44] heh :) [00:44] maybe we can ask somebody who does [00:44] I don't know people like that [00:44] :D [00:45] the internet has some [00:45] yeah, some [00:45] so [00:45] should i group the windows pages whatsoever [00:46] I think maybe the dictionary can be merged with "migrating data" [00:47] since we can drop some of them if we do that, because [00:47] "migrating" covers some of them [00:47] hmm [00:47] i wonder if there's some page in the ubuntu community wiki about converting stuff [00:48] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromWindows [00:48] ahh [00:49] http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Migrating%20from%20Windows is loooong [00:49] yeah [00:49] that should be much shorter, to not scare people [00:50] the migrating data page does kind of the same thing [00:50] or, describes [00:50] how can it be so much text. [00:50] I don't love that the page exists at all to be honest [00:51] yeah, but i imagine it's valuable information for somebody coming from windows [00:51] but yeah, users migrating from windows aren't our main target [00:51] I'd rather see a page explaining that Xubuntu is not Windows, here are a few things that are different, see for more about specific things [00:51] mm-hmm [00:52] what if we start by dropping the converting stuff? [00:52] let's see how it looks after taht [00:52] *that [00:52] yeah [00:52] * pleia2 looks at ubuntu docs for inspiration [00:53] yeah, they don't mention windows at all ;) [00:53] heh [00:53] do we want a list of things users need to configure their internet? [00:53] isn't that what their operators should do [00:54] it should happen with magic [00:54] ipconfig /all > C:\network_settings.txt [00:54] wut [00:54] :D [00:54] some samba stuff might be cool. [00:54] hehe [00:54] or not cool, but actually useful [00:55] yeah, enough people want to do shares [00:55] "if there are stil idio^Wusers using windows in your local network, ..." [00:56] I use samba, I get all kinds of goofy devices connecting to my share [00:56] yeah, goofy [00:56] http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Migrating from Windows [00:56] sad. [00:56] http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Migrating%20Your%20Data%20Into%20Xubuntu [00:56] so that then [00:56] what do we want to keep? [00:57] i imagine we could replace the loooong files section with a simple table [00:57] glossary-style [00:57] "where are my files" [00:57] photos and music are obsolete [00:58] does windows have a photo manager? [00:58] "Xubuntu does not include a powerful photo manager by default." [00:58] ERR [00:58] wrong [00:58] :D [00:58] even if we didn't, DON'T SAY THAT [00:58] obsolete, but should we rewrite them? [00:58] I think we just delete the photos thing, windows doesn't do any better by default [00:58] afaik [00:59] same with music I think [00:59] hmm. [00:59] they just live in directories and you clicky on files to make them go [00:59] i think we could have a small section on default apps [00:59] "how to add your music to gmb" [00:59] "how to import your settings to firefox" [00:59] and just really quickly go through that [01:00] and link to online, app-maintained, docs [01:00] but that should go in 5. Music, Video and Photos [01:00] not in windows part [01:00] and do that on *one page*, so we don't have to go through everything if we change our default apps [01:00] yeah. [01:01] what about new section [01:01] like so maybe, under Music - Xubuntu offers gmb to organize your music, see [[Music]] [01:01] "Quick guide to the default applications" [01:01] and link to each one's one docs [01:01] and add some really useful/common tasks [01:01] ok [01:02] i'm just thinking what should we have there [01:02] probably tb/ff import and that gmb collection thing [01:02] what else? [01:02] so we put "Office" and "Music, Video and Photos" under that subheading [01:02] possibly yes... [01:02] and definitely yes too :P [01:03] :) [01:03] but what else would there be to it? [01:03] file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/musicvideophotos.html#music [01:03] that's quite a lot of stuff [01:03] aww exaile [01:04] Download Music from the Internet [01:04] :| [01:04] and then there's some mic troubleshooting [01:04] that's just a mess :D [01:04] do we need rip/burn audio cd? [01:05] hrm [01:05] rip is exaile too, btw [01:05] i don't think we ship anything to rip cd's by default [01:05] gmb with a plugin might do it, but i'm not certain [01:06] I think if we don't do it out of the box, just drop it [01:06] mmh [01:07] i created a new section, 5 def apps [01:07] okie [01:07] file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/office-document-templates.html [01:07] huh? [01:07] we don't even ship 3/4 of those apps by default [01:07] ever shipped [01:08] that's out [01:08] heh [01:09] I think I'm in "delete everything" mode now, I don't think I can do this for much longer tonight :) [01:10] did you just say to*night*? :P [01:10] this evening? :) [01:10] hehe. [01:10] maybe we should start writing something then. [01:10] I do have some blueprint questions before you go sleepies [01:10] i'm not going too soon [01:11] but go ahead ;) [01:11] on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-website-improvements we have a couple that I think may be done [01:11] [xubuntu-website] Cleanup and review website: INPROGRESS [01:11] what about /about ? : / [01:12] aha, wasn't gridcube working on that? [01:12] i can't remember he was [01:12] but didn't beardygnome write a draft of that ages ago? [01:12] ah, yes [01:12] ok, I'll dig up drafts [01:12] any other pages? I think we got most everything else [01:13] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Website/Drafts [01:13] that would be it [01:13] oh good [01:13] hmm, about/ and contribute/development/ [01:13] hrm, I suppose /contribute/translating/ still needs love [01:13] those are the standing issues [01:14] ok [01:14] probably that too, though i went through it and gave as much love as i could [01:14] i don't know too much about translating, and i don't know if anybody does [01:14] how about the wiki, any work to be done there? I think we deleted almost everything :) [01:14] hehe [01:14] well, we have about/ there too [01:14] hah [01:15] alright, but I think that's it [01:15] we should review that /About, merge the two and delete the wiki page [01:15] probably yes. [01:15] then we will be done with the wiki! [01:16] yeah, plus the testcases need to be moved [01:16] they are still on the wiki [01:16] yeah, what's the holdup there? [01:16] lazyness i suppose [01:16] hehe [01:16] and the lack of "general test intro" [01:16] see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-qa-procedures for those things [01:16] I don't mind doing it, but I don't want to upset QA people by doing the wrong thing :) [01:17] we shouldn't copy them to the QA wiki [01:17] they've built stuff to integrate all that to the ISO tracker [01:17] yeah [01:17] but that's not so much a wiki issue [01:17] i'm okay with marking the wiki stuff DONE once about/ is ok [01:17] ok [01:18] wiki AND "community wiki" I think, since it's turned only into a development wiki really [01:18] no [01:18] oh [01:18] with community wiki... [01:18] i mean the community help wiki [01:19] oh, help.ubuntu? [01:19] there's some xubuntu-categorized stuff [01:19] yes [01:19] I haven't even looked at those [01:19] we should go through those and see how current that is [01:19] ok [01:19] and maybe see if there's something else worth categorizing under xubuntu [01:19] probably search for all pages that say "xfce" or "xubuntu" [01:20] * pleia2 nods [01:20] there isn't a lot of the categorized pages [01:20] ok, going through that will help some with docs in general anyway [01:20] yes [01:20] now wait a minute [01:20] https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-help/index.html [01:21] this didn't look like this the last time i checked? :P [01:21] spiffy huh? :) [01:21] oh,hah [01:21] that was the official document [01:21] huh [01:21] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingXubuntu [01:22] I love how their search doesn't search the wiki [01:22] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryXubuntu [01:22] there we go. [01:22] that. isn't. much. [01:22] that's like so little i would just like to delete that all. [01:22] hehe [01:22] seriously, what is there for us :P [01:23] compiz installation guide [01:23] :P [01:23] but sounds quite general [01:23] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#Xubuntu_Prior_to_10.10 [01:23] * pleia2 facepalm [01:23] kind of silly [01:23] haha [01:23] yeah [01:23] go delete that. [01:24] ;] [01:24] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XubuntuPanels [01:24] that sounds like something we should consider adding to our blog as an article [01:24] and tag with FAQ [01:24] i suppose that's pretty much the only sensible thing in the community wiki about xubuntu [01:25] yeah [01:26] huh, does this work? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager#Xubuntu_10.04.2C_10.10.2C_11.04_and_11.10_12.04 [01:26] i have no idea [01:26] suppose I could test it on my laptop [01:26] compiz has never been supported any way under xubuntu [01:26] yeah [01:27] people have it working, but i'm not sure if i still want that on an official wiki [01:27] well, official/community [01:27] it covers all the flavors, so I'm inclined to leave it if it works [01:28] the whole tutorial is poorly written [01:28] "all the flavors" [01:28] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingXubuntu isn't so horrible as a thing, but it needs to be rewritten [01:28] what about ubuntu studio? :) [01:28] DEs? :) [01:28] don't we have the installing guide on our website? [01:28] sort of [01:28] merge those [01:29] k [01:29] well, again just an idea [01:29] but why maintain two versions [01:29] so /getxubuntu is the closest we have to an install page [01:29] heh. [01:29] let me look at the CW page [01:30] Installation process [01:30] The installation process for Xubuntu is basically the same as for Ubuntu. Please refer to the Ubuntu Installation Guide for more information. [01:30] there isn't much else to it [01:30] "Unlike the Windows family of operating systems, an early machine does not require an early version of Ubuntu. If you are installing Xubuntu on an old PC or with early hardware, jump straight to the most recent version. It is not necessary to hunt down an old version of Ubuntu to use your PC. One of the newest (that is, supported) versions is the appropriate one." [01:31] not completely true either, if your pc is ancient [01:31] blah blah blah [01:31] (and some willing to use xubuntu has those) [01:31] yeah [01:31] that guide simply isn't very useful imo [01:31] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstalandoXubuntu_ES [01:31] heh. [01:32] Candidate for Deletion [01:32] the german one too [01:32] yup. [01:32] is the community wiki EN only? [01:32] no, but EN is most maintained (which says a lot about the others :x) [01:32] heh [01:33] again, i wouldn't mind all the pages deleted [01:33] yeah, I'll go through them a bit more to see if there are nuggets we can pull out [01:33] and if somebody else has gone through the non-EN pages and think they might be removed, maybe delete those at least. [01:34] until we can really enable translations on xubuntu.org, we can create some subpages for other-language guides, if those are useful [01:34] yeah [01:34] or translate an essential part of the site [01:35] mostly i think the site is quite easy to read if you have the least english skills [01:35] yeah [01:36] ok, and I didn't make a marketing blueprint, so while I have todo list items there it's not blueprint critical [01:36] :) [01:36] what kind of stuff? [01:36] still have to define our marketing target, and collect info for handouts [01:37] what about putting that under strategy document (#1) [01:37] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-review-strategy-document [01:37] marketing target is different than general target [01:37] but isn't that still kind of under the same umbrella? [01:37] maybe [01:37] if you want, we could just create the blueprint too [01:38] i'm sure we can find other things we want to list there at a later stage [01:38] especially if we get far enough with the handouts and other stuff like that [01:38] well, I did actually do a fair amount that wasn't blueprint tracked and probably should have been [01:38] like make and ship stickers, make pins, made a trial t-shirt [01:39] you can add those too to the blueprint. [01:39] just list them as done and it'll be fine [01:39] or if you don't want to list, that's okay too :P [01:39] yeah, I should, it'll make it look like I did stuff! [01:39] heh [01:40] yeah, you're currently not even listed! [01:40] btw, things under xubuntu-web and those; feel free to change the assignee to yourself if you complete an item [01:40] :) [01:40] ok [01:40] ideally, i'd like all items to have a person as an assignee when we release 12.10 [01:40] other-q-xubuntu-marketing ? [01:40] that way we can actually track who did stuff [01:40] yup, that sounds fine :) [01:41] we're going to have to poke skaet or somebody else to make it accepted for quantal :) [01:41] or wait [01:41] can i do that? :o [01:42] just ping me once you've actually created the blueprint and i'll look [01:43] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-marketing [01:43] ah, it's still just proposed [01:43] :) [01:44] actually, i have to be the approver [01:44] oh ok [01:44] i [01:44] i'll set you as the drafter [01:47] alright, that's sorted [01:47] ...aaand it's linked from the roadmap [01:48]