[07:08] <AlanBell> morning
[07:16] <DJones> ^^ What he said :)
[07:20] <Azelphur> morning all, good news re my "perfect condition" phone
[07:21] <Azelphur> I have my money back, and I have the phone too.
[07:21] <Azelphur> I'm waiting back from the seller to see if he wants to pay shipping to have it back
[07:46] <hoover> good morning all
[07:50] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: woohoo
[07:50] <Azelphur> indeed :D
[07:50] <christel> morning pretties
[07:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone in Somerset looking for a Python/Linux dev job? http://www.computerfutures.com/en/job/Python-Developer-Somerset-30-000/Somerset/Perm/1/597916/
[07:59] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:06] <christel> morning clam
[08:07]  * bigcalm tickles christel
[08:08] <bigcalm> Mmmm, dubstep to rumble me awake
[08:08] <christel> :)
[08:10] <bigcalm> :O http://cheezburger.com/6508261632
[08:17] <bigcalm> Big Hair and Deadly Stare
[08:56] <mungojerry> !info bamf
[08:58] <gord> libbamf
[08:58] <gord> and bamfdaemon
[09:08] <AlanBell> http://zareason.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/removing-barriers-for-linux-hardware.html is an interesting read
[09:20] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:20] <christel> good morning brobostigon :)
[09:21] <brobostigon> good morning christel :)
[09:21] <bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
[09:21] <brobostigon> hi bigcalm
[09:28] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/August/20120816_090349%280%29.jpg imported korean monitors = good :D
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Your motto is "there's no kill like overkill"?
[09:29] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yup
[09:30] <mungojerry> interesting: a level A grades fell for the first time in 20 years
[09:30] <mungojerry> pointing to a possible stabilisation?
[09:32] <mungojerry> Azelphur, that PC stays there all the time?
[09:33] <mungojerry> ah, it's next to the wall, i got the sense of perspective wrong, i thought it was middle of room and prone to getting knoecked off
[09:34] <Azelphur> mungojerry: yea?
[09:34] <Azelphur> where would it go? o.O
[09:35] <mungojerry> i was confused. thought the desk was 10 ft from the wall
[09:35] <mungojerry> but was 10cm
[09:35] <mungojerry> (on the floor?)
[09:37] <Azelphur> mungojerry: haha
[09:37] <Azelphur> mungojerry: the desk is literally right up against the wall
[09:37] <Azelphur> it's a pretty big desk (although I clearly need a bigger one
[09:37] <Azelphur> I should try and move the monitors back a bit.
[09:40] <mungojerry> my study is full of junk and i literally plop into the cockpit seat and it's hard to get out
[09:41] <Azelphur> same lol
[09:41] <Azelphur> you just about see the start of the junk on the side table, I've been trying to tidy up ;)
[09:53] <DJones> Does anybody want a 90 day trial version of Windows 8 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/jj554510.aspx
[09:55] <DJones> I'm tempted to download it and have a look
[10:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:02] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[10:02] <davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!
[10:02] <davmor2> brobostigon: morning
[10:06] <AlanBell> innodb_flush_log_at_trx_commit=0 makes mysql a happy database
[10:06] <AlanBell> well a fast one at any rate (with slight ACID noncompliance)
[10:09] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2
[10:15] <Azelphur> http://reuters.livestation.com/demo police swarming outside the ecuadorian embassy which is currently harbouring assange (live)
[10:16] <davmor2> bigcalm: hey dude, how's life?
[10:16] <bigcalm> davmor2: if I were able to feel stress, it would be stressful right now
[10:17] <bigcalm> I'm off work tomorrow to go to oggcamp and then a 4 day course in London next week
[10:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: hahhaha
[10:17] <bigcalm> So trying to get LOTS of work done up to the wire
[10:18] <bigcalm> I bet I find myself doing work in the hotel room
[10:19] <gord> good luck with your internet connection in the hotel room ;)
[10:19] <bigcalm> gord: I'll be working either on 3g or on my local git repo
[10:30] <davmor2> gord: your alive
[10:30] <gord> barely, feature freeze is upon
[10:34] <davmor2> ...us
[10:35] <bigcalm> Him
[10:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: no it is upon the entire company :)
[10:42] <bigcalm> christel: new photo, is it you? :)
[10:59] <christel> haha yes
[10:59] <christel> i was ickle
[11:00] <bigcalm> So sweet :)
[11:00] <christel> :P
[11:01] <bigcalm> ;)
[11:06]  * bigcalm had forgotten how painfully slow it is to work with other developers on the same code
[11:07] <christel> hehe
[11:10] <czajkowski> bigcalm: be nice and learn how to play with others
[11:11] <bigcalm> Heh
[11:11] <bigcalm> czajkowski: it's my boss :|
[11:11] <czajkowski> play very nicely then
[11:11] <bigcalm> For a long time I was the only active dev, he's working on the same project as me now though
[11:14] <czajkowski> so team work :)
[11:14] <mgdm> we have 8 devs on the same code at work
[11:14] <mgdm> not too many issues :)
[11:15] <bigcalm> mgdm: we're not in the same office and he keep disappearing :)
[11:15] <czajkowski> bigcalm: eh none of our team are even in the same timezone sometimes and they manage just fine
[11:15]  * czajkowski thinks bigcalm should pack coding in and open a book store, less stress and no coding team :)
[11:19] <MartijnVdS> No coders? Don't stock O'Reilly!
[11:19] <directhex> i should switch from sysadminnery to plumbing
[11:21] <shauno> there's a difference?
[11:22] <directhex> yeah, you deal with less crap as a plumber
[11:45] <SuperMatt> I find that the new gtk theme in quantal is so nice, I'm using epiphany instead of web to browse cos it fits in natively
[11:45] <SuperMatt> s/web/firefox
[11:50] <SuperMatt> I still can't decide if I want the window decorations to change or not
[12:01] <aquarius> czajkowski, what am I checking my mail for?
[12:01] <czajkowski> ticket
[12:01] <czajkowski> you now have one
[12:01] <aquarius> czajkowski, aha! I do indeed. That was you, was it? nice one :)
[12:03] <czajkowski> yes of course it was me
[12:03] <czajkowski> :)
[12:03] <GirlyGirl> Hi
[12:03] <Flashtek> hi
[12:03] <zleap> hi
[12:05] <GirlyGirl> Finally got my car into a usable condition by cutting of some bumper plastic. So glad I can use it again
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> hope it passes MOT like that
[12:06] <Flashtek> as long as there are no sharp edges, you'll be ok
[12:07] <Flashtek> if there are use ductape
[12:08] <GirlyGirl> Flashtek: None all, I didn't exactly cut it just pushed it forward mostly, the bumper isn't that damaged but has moved inwards
[12:09] <Flashtek> probably be fine then
[12:09] <Flashtek> did you have a shunt ?
[12:10] <GirlyGirl> No
[12:11] <GirlyGirl> Still I do hear some rattling noise while driving it, guess that is ok though
[12:11] <GirlyGirl> mainly when braking
[12:13] <GirlyGirl> If I get to boot to close better myself without spending £ I'd be overjoyed though
[12:16] <mungojerry> does htc desire have CM9 release?
[12:17] <Flashtek> mungojerry: why not look on the website...?
[12:17] <mungojerry> i'm looking but doesn't seem to be there
[12:17] <mungojerry> shame
[12:17] <Flashtek> if its not there...
[12:17] <mungojerry> then it's somewhere else?
[12:18] <mungojerry> there's a few desire owners in here so thought i'd try
[12:18] <mungojerry> should prob put CM7.2 on it though
[12:19] <mungojerry> i'm still rocking 7.03
[12:20] <davmor2> mungojerry: http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/topic/49393-can-we-get-any-cm9-updates/
[12:20] <directhex> mungojerry, there may be ~CM9 nightlies
[12:22] <mungojerry> i need to find a way of creating more space on this device, always down at that 15MB of free internal space even with a seemingly unused 128mb partition on the phone
[12:22] <davmor2> directhex: there is no kernel currently for the desire + cm9 so you have to build your own so it isn't ready for general release yet and the image if it gets done likely won't be official
[12:23] <mungojerry> hardly sounds worth it
[12:23] <mungojerry> i just want speed improvements, i don't notice any bugs with the OS or any features required
[12:25] <mungojerry> i'm not sure that's even worth it if i have to reinstall the whole os and apps all over again
[12:27] <directhex> is the desire ARMv7?
[12:28] <mungojerry> yes directhex
[12:28] <directhex> hm, should be okay then for speed. ICS is slow on ARMv6
[12:29] <mungojerry> no compelling features in ICS over 2.3 for phones though afai see
[12:30] <mungojerry> i'm using ICS on touchpad and haven't noticed much difference except for some apps and UI tweaks
[12:31] <directhex> CM9?
[12:31] <mungojerry> yesh
[12:31] <directhex> nightly?
[12:31] <mungojerry> well one from july
[12:31] <directhex> and that's it? if you want bug fixes since then you reformat?
[12:32] <mungojerry> no, touchpad is OK, i'm referring to the state of android on my desire
[12:33] <mungojerry> just saying that the diff between android on my desire (CM7.03) and touchpad CM9  isn't huge
[12:36] <mungojerry> although android 2.3.4 has google video chat which would be nice
[13:22] <popey> anyone got an android 4.x device handy?
[13:22] <popey> I need to change a device from chinese to english
[13:22] <popey> but don't know which menu it is
[13:23] <popey> ooh, found it by random tapping
[13:25] <DJones> I've got one to hand if you need anything else
[13:25] <GirlyGirl> Speaking of Android, is there an android device that is likely to get updates for a really long time like a pc
[13:28] <popey> pcs dont get updates for a really long time
[13:28] <popey> try getting a BIOS for a 3 year old laptop
[13:34] <Flashtek> Dell Latitude D6xx
[13:34] <Flashtek> simple
[13:34] <Flashtek> :-P
[13:34]  * Flashtek heads off for a snooze, in pain
[13:38] <GirlyGirl> popey: Not in that sense but you can run the lastest ubuntu or Windows for 7 years approximately on PC's newer than 2003
[13:39] <GirlyGirl> I've had some laptops get a bios update after 3 years too
[14:03] <gord> i don't think you really get android device updates for longer than a few years..
[14:03] <gord> i don't get updates for my n1 anymore
[14:06] <directhex> lolyears
[14:07] <mungojerry> whats a device update?
[14:07] <directhex> no android phone has had official updates for 2 years yet afaik
[14:07] <directhex> king is iphone 3gs, >3 years & counting
[14:07] <mungojerry> CM will get OTA facility soon
[14:13] <GirlyGirl> gord: IPhone 3gs will get the upcoming iOS6
[14:15] <gord> thats nice? but i don't think that the iphone is an android device
[14:16] <directhex> android update cycle == joke
[14:16] <GirlyGirl> gord: I know, but an Android device that gets updates longer would be nice ... manufacturers stop supporting phones that can sometimes be very capable of running the latest version
[14:18] <directhex> nexus s is most well-supported device i think. released dec2010, has 4.1.1
[14:19] <mungojerry> although unofficial, i think the CM releases keep android devices alive longer than iphones
[14:30] <directhex> Azelphur, how's the galaxy s3 situation?
[14:30] <directhex> mungojerry, statistical noise. most android devices run 2.3
[14:31] <directhex> 60% are 2.3.3 -> 2.3.7
[14:32] <directhex> ICS is 16%, same as 2.2
[14:58] <Azelphur> directhex: got my money back :D
[14:58] <Azelphur> I told him to pay postage if he wants his phone back, which he didn't
[15:02] <mungojerry> win
[15:04] <Azelphur> indeed
[15:04] <Azelphur> I think I'll give him 7 days, then tell him if he doesn't reply within 7 days after that I'll be keeping it, then keep it
[15:09] <directhex> still smells dodgy++ but at least you're not out of pocket
[15:17] <GirlyGirl> Anyone here knows a good (but not to expensive) car body repair place near cambridge?
[15:20] <mungojerry> let me just say that owncloud is flipping awesome
[15:20] <mungojerry> everything a man could need
[15:24] <popey> mungojerry, tell me more
[15:25] <mungojerry> super simple setup, clients for all devices, (or webdav for those who like that kind of thing), stable and mature
[15:26] <mungojerry> i also like that there's a clientsync folder, but another folder level above that, so if you want to store files on the server that you don't want to sync to all devices (because of disk sapce), then you can do that, essentially making it a backup server as well as sync server
[15:26] <mungojerry> popey, also does versioning history
[15:27] <GirlyGirl> mungojerry: Its nice but I have a personal server
[15:27] <mungojerry> owncloud is a personal cloud solution
[15:27] <mungojerry> for your own server
[15:27] <mungojerry> just need port 443 open
[15:27] <AlanBell> cloud in this instance meaning file storage?
[15:27] <mungojerry> yes, with whistle
[15:29] <mungojerry> because if you want you can add plugins easily to the web interface to stream music, edit latex, stream video..
[15:29] <mungojerry> server side encryption of files.
[16:45] <gum-ball-machine> Hi all, does anyone know how to make settings from "myunity" persist accross logins/reboots?
[16:46] <gum-ball-machine> eg: my custom coloured Unity side panel will not persist accross logins
[16:50] <kirrus> popey: I've pointed one of the guys from rockpapershotgun.com your way.. he's got questions about licencing, and thought you might be able to help him :)
[16:58] <christel> 1
[17:00] <popey> kirrus, ok!
[17:16] <davmor2> christel: where's our postcard :P
[17:38] <christel> ahahah oh yes! i must remember to send that
[17:48]  * OrangutanMan goes "OOh OOh OOH!"
[18:05] <christel> oh oh oh indeed.
[18:17] <Azelphur> haha
[18:17] <Azelphur> suddenly, a random OranguntanMan
[19:24] <Bagheera> Hi Everyone
[19:31] <AlanBell> hi
[19:35] <popey> hi
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> \o
[20:03] <mgdm> Right - any suggestions for a Twitter client that isn't Gwibber or Hotot? :-)
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> google chrome
[20:07] <popey> i just have a tab open for twitter
[20:07] <mgdm> actually it's not that bad that way
[20:07] <mgdm> it'll do
[20:10] <DJones> I'm still using polly, that works fairly well, although it does crash regularly
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> Strange ears.. I heard "American and Comedian scientists" when they said "American and Canadian scientists"
[21:17]  * AlanBell wonders what pub for the Farnham happy hour when Bigcalm is down
[21:27] <christel> All the pubs!
[21:27] <christel> pub crawl o clock \o/
[21:27] <christel> oooh
[21:27] <christel> actually
[21:27] <christel> we pubcrawl when i return to work out the best route/pub for the happy hour
[21:27] <christel> <- genius!
[21:27] <KrisDouglas> Pubs are bad, mmmk? :P
[21:27] <christel> sssh
[21:29]  * christel pokes AlanBell to approve of this PLN
[21:32] <christel> popey should partake in pub investigations too, i value his input tremendously
[21:32]  * christel nods
[21:33] <popey> hmm
[21:33] <christel> excellent that's settled then!
[21:37] <Dave2> :o
[21:38]  * Dave2 wonders if a passport is needed for going to Liverpool
[21:38] <zleap> lol
[21:39] <christel> Dave2: haha
[21:42]  * AlanBell mails the list
[21:42] <AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2012-August/034895.html
[21:43] <AlanBell> slug and lettuce on the 22nd September bigcalm
[21:43] <christel> the slug and lettuce?! could you not pick anywhere worse?
[21:43] <christel> :P
[21:44] <christel> otoh they do have silly cheap pitchers of cocktails...
[21:45] <AlanBell> not my first choice of pub for a quiet drink, but a reasonable place to meet up with people as a starting point
[21:45] <AlanBell> we don't have to stay there
[21:45] <christel> mmhmm :P
[21:46] <christel> yay christmas
[21:46] <christel> it is so very nearly christmas :D:D:D
[21:46] <bigcalm> My ears are burning, somebody talking about me again?
[21:47] <christel> (this excites me greatly)
[21:47] <christel> bigcalm: always
[21:47] <popey> christel, why is that the worst pub?
[21:47] <AlanBell> because christel has high standards
[21:47] <christel> it is just not very atmosphere-y ;)
[21:47] <christel> but they have cheap cocktails so it's ok
[21:47]  * AlanBell wonders if it is marianna at Canonical who is the launch party person again
[21:48] <cliftonts> Hi guys
[21:49] <Laney> probably a good first bet
[21:49] <Pendulum> popey: it's only the worst pub until christel has had some cheap cocktails. Possibly the lack of remembering anything after the cocktails is why she doesn't like it ;)
[21:49] <popey> ahh
[21:50] <AlanBell> hi cliftonts
[21:50] <cliftonts> Hi AlanBell, how's it going?
[21:50] <AlanBell> not too bad, just sorting out christmas :)
[21:51]  * bigcalm has caught up
[21:51] <cliftonts> I've had a fall out with Python, it's developed an attitude
[21:51] <popey> oh golly, september, nearly christmas!
[21:51] <bigcalm> I'll happily be led to any pub when I'm in Farnham ;)
[21:51] <popey> i thought the one near the train station with the find burgers was nice enough
[21:52] <bigcalm> You lot are crazy :P
[21:52] <AlanBell> popey: yes, that one is good too
[21:52] <cliftonts> What's on the cards for Christmas then?
[21:52] <bigcalm> popey: nice food, didn't seem as cosy as the W.C.
[21:52] <AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2012-August/034895.html
[21:52] <AlanBell> various christmas options available
[21:53] <cliftonts> I was rather uncertain about last year's choice. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with the whole dark thing
[21:53] <popey> WC?
[21:53] <AlanBell> well it is kind of intended to push you a bit out of the comfort zone
[21:54] <AlanBell> but yes, not doing dans le noir again, that is kind of a "do it once" experience
[21:54] <cliftonts> When it comes to Christmas dinner I'm very happy with my comfort zone
[21:54] <bigcalm> popey: william cobbett
[21:54] <bigcalm> popey: I had to google the spelling, hence the w.c
[21:54] <popey> ah
[21:54] <popey> I quite like WC
[21:54]  * AlanBell was thinking Wing Commander
[21:54] <bigcalm> Heh
[21:55] <popey> but the burger one is better for sitting down inside :)
[21:55] <bigcalm> Everything depends on busyness :)
[21:55] <cliftonts> I just hope I've sorted my life out enough to join in this year.
[21:55] <AlanBell> I was thinking of meeting at the slug, then perhaps moving on to the Kar Ling Kwong or something
[21:57] <popey> winner
[21:57] <popey> acceptable solution to the quandary mr bell
[21:58] <cliftonts> Can anyone here tell me why python says no? http://pastebin.com/tCG08tyE
[21:59] <popey> ooh, thats nice
[22:00] <cliftonts> ??
[22:00] <popey> what is the source you're running?
[22:00] <AlanBell> gosh, that is an odd error
[22:00] <cliftonts> nothing, I just typed it right in
[22:00] <popey> you typed "python" then type "import random"?
[22:00] <cliftonts> yes
[22:00] <AlanBell> oh, is there a file called random.py in the current directory?
[22:00] <mgdm> have you got a random.py in your current dir?
[22:01] <cliftonts> shouldn't be
[22:01] <popey> i suspect you have a broken package system
[22:01] <cliftonts> bloody hell! there was
[22:01] <popey> haha
[22:01] <cliftonts> I remember learning that I can't have that. I assumed I'd renamed it
[22:02] <AlanBell> hehe
[22:03] <cliftonts> Now I'm really confused
[22:04] <cliftonts> http://pastebin.com/jPerjwsu
[22:04] <cliftonts> Oh yey! Canonical just turned me down for a job. Don't I feel appreciated!
[22:05] <popey> welcome to the club!
[22:05] <AlanBell> canonical turn down lots of people all the time (including a lot of people currently working at canonical)
[22:05] <popey> I got turned down twice
[22:06] <cliftonts> Trouble is I don't translate onto a CV very well. They'd have to actually talk to me or I have no hope
[22:06] <cliftonts> Did you see that second error. I don't have a random to import any more!
[22:06] <popey> you typed import python
[22:06] <popey> you meant to type import random
[22:07] <cliftonts> oh for god's sake
[22:07] <cliftonts> can you tell it's too late?
[22:07] <AlanBell> it is getting late!
[22:07] <popey> yes :)
[22:07] <cliftonts> finally. I've been trying to get that thing going for days.
[22:08] <cliftonts> Coding in python is a bit of a culture shock compared to quick basic. The interpreter keeps pushing you back on the right track and you don't realise just how much it did until it's gone.
[22:08] <popey> heh
[22:08] <christel> popey: yah i like the mulburry :)
[22:09] <popey> quick basic.. I haven't touched that since....
[22:09] <popey> 1993
[22:09] <popey> i think
[22:09] <christel> the cobbett is also nice
[22:09] <christel> (i am backlogging)
[22:09] <popey> i found a nice love2d / lua tutorial the other day
[22:09] <popey> i might use that instead of python for a game sophie wants to write
[22:09] <cliftonts> popey: Yeah but deciding to learn a modern language and then coming head to head with visual basic put me off programming in anything else for over 10 years!
[22:10] <popey> the good thing about python is that there are zillions of tutorials
[22:10] <popey> many really good ones
[22:10] <popey> http://cupm.net/public/love2dtutorial/
[22:11] <popey> thats a nice love2d one
[22:11] <cliftonts> I've converted one of my programs and it works fine. I now need to make it pretty. Experiment with the things qbasic couldn't do
[22:12] <popey> https://github.com/kikito/love-tile-tutorial/wiki also good
[22:12] <ali1234> making 2d game?
[22:13] <ali1234> best thing about python is list comprehensions and slicing
[22:14] <ali1234> if you only did basic, C etc, you need to learn that, because it's an amazing time saver
[22:14] <cliftonts> I haven't played with that yet
[22:14] <ali1234> it's also incredibly simple like everything in python
[22:15] <popey> ali1234, yeah, my daughter wants to do a simple 2d mario style game
[22:15] <cliftonts> One of the problems I'm finding is that there are certain things you have to do the hard way in basic where in python one command will do it. I'm figuring out how to do them the hard way again without realising there is a better way.
[22:16] <ali1234> in basic you have to do everything the hard way
[22:17] <cliftonts> yup
[22:17] <cliftonts> brb
[22:24] <cliftonts> I swear I'll never get past having to look up commands in the tutorials!