[04:34] <smartboyhw> Hi!
[06:01]  * smartboyhw waves at hansfbaier
[06:49] <hansfbaier> hi
[06:49]  * smartboyhw waves at hansfbaier
[11:31]  * smartboyhw waves at falktx
[11:32] <falktx> \o/
[12:59]  * smartboyhw waves at scott-work
[12:59] <scott-work> good morning smartboyhw 
[13:52] <smartboyhw> scott-work: If you are here: Who are the ops of #ubuntustudio and #ubuntustudio-devel?
[14:04] <smartboyhw> Uh oh, FinalFreeze today
[14:32] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i believe i have ops rights for both channels, astraljava as well, maybe holstein as well
[15:04] <ailo> len-dt: lowlatency on Quantal has tickless timer by default
[15:04] <ailo> Also, -generic
[15:04] <smartboyhw> Hey ailo
[15:04] <smartboyhw> Hey len-dt
[15:04] <len-dt> ailo, ok, I am just doing some midi testing now.
[15:04] <ailo> smartboyhw: How's your documentation work going?
[15:04] <len-dt> hello smartboyhw 
[15:05] <smartboyhw> ailo: I need to rewrite it after scott-work's instructions the day before yesterday
[15:05] <ailo> len-dt: what sort of testing?
[15:05] <len-dt> I think my through stuff is remaking the packets... looking for better hardware.
[15:05] <ailo> smartboyhw: Have you shown to anyone yet?
[15:06] <len-dt> I have a track on qtractor with 20 notes at the same time.
[15:06] <smartboyhw> nope
[15:06] <smartboyhw> As I said I need to rewrite it
[15:06] <len-dt> then I am going out and in and rerecording.
[15:07] <ailo> len-dt: rerecording audio, or midi?
[15:07] <len-dt> It looks like the instrument I was using for through is not direct through but reques the notes to go out again.
[15:07] <len-dt> midi.
[15:08] <len-dt> There is an 1/8 note difference from note one to note 20
[15:09] <ailo> smartboyhw: Well, if you really think so. Otherwise, just show it, so we can give feedback. 
[15:10] <smartboyhw> ailo: I have deleted the whole thing and rewrited it!
[15:11] <smartboyhw> rewriting, I should say, not rewrited
[15:17] <smartboyhw> len-dt: How's your MIDI?:)
[15:19] <scott-work> hmmm, i'm not sure what i said that would cause you to delete and completely rewrite your documentation, smartboyhw :/
[15:20] <smartboyhw> It did:):(
[15:21] <smartboyhw> The original one was to just promote software
[15:21] <smartboyhw> The new one was to create a scenario and be a fluid introduction to actually do it
[16:06] <ailo> scott-work: I think what you were talking about with him was a good starting point for documentation, namely writing up a workflow example of what he deos
[16:06] <ailo> I think that might be the best place to start
[16:08] <ailo> I'm also a bit concerned with the work load of writing workflows, at least if we want to have a complete set.
[16:09] <ailo> Which is why I'm focusing on basic user guides to begin with
[16:09] <ailo> That is really what I eas requesting from smartboyhw
[16:10] <ailo> I don't have a clear picture of how a basic user guide would look like for publishing though
[16:11] <ailo> Other than showing which applications to start
[16:11] <ailo> for audio, there's the obligatory introduction to linux audio
[16:11] <ailo> For graphics, video, publishing and photography, I think at least for three of those there's things like monitor calibration
[16:15] <ailo> len-dt: Been using the -rt kernel on Debian now for a couple of days
[16:15] <ailo> Can't say I'm too impressed
[16:15] <ailo> Building kernels now, btw
[16:15] <Len-nb> ailo, I am not seeing any timing problems with or without tweaks using a USB midi port and qtractor out to record at qtractor in.
[16:16] <Len-nb> All I am seeing is the delay the midi IF is adding because of the serial speed
[16:16] <Len-nb> qtractor uses alsa midi, so I did everything there.
[16:16] <ailo> ok
[16:17] <Len-nb> Nothing on using jackmidi
[16:17] <ailo> I was going to include alsa midi testing in the testing suite, but I will just focus on audio for now
[16:18] <Len-nb> I think I will have to do the same test with a higher system load.
[16:19] <Len-nb> And more irq activity
[16:24] <holstein> stochastic: mikeh789 is me BTW... i expired from the testers group if you get a ping about that
[17:45] <Len-nb> ailo, I have 4 softsynths, hydrogen, qtractor all going. cpu freq scaling just once in a while bumps up one step. jack shows dsp as 33-40%.. oh and firefox is running too... about 15 tabs.
[17:46] <Len-nb> memory is heading for swap :P
[17:47] <Len-nb> About to reboot to stock no tweaks I'll see if it is enough. I may have to set cpu to lowest speed to see anything.
[17:55] <ailo> len-dt: Doesn't seem like all cpu freq uitilities set governor for all cores, only the first
[17:56] <ailo> My tweak will set it manually to all cores
[17:57] <Len-nb> The one that comes with ubuntu does. It looks though all cores and sets each.
[17:58] <Len-nb> What  I am saying though, is that it might be nice to set some thing other than full speed.
[17:58] <Len-nb> In this case I seem to run out of memory before cpu anyway, so why not run one speed up from half?
[17:59] <ailo> Makes sense, as long as the governor is set to performance
[18:00] <ailo> I mean, set to a fixed frequency
[18:00] <ailo> but that's only for the sake of saving power
[18:01] <ailo> the RAM problem has more to due with the desktop configuration, and which applications you are using
[18:01] <Len-nb> Or how little ram I have
[18:01] <ailo> I'm thinking of what to include in -controls as far as cpu freq tweaking goes
[18:02] <ailo> Can't include more RAM anyway
[18:03] <Len-nb> BTW, ailo, I can't see any trouble with max-user-freq=3072. Cpu usage does not go up, or fan turn on or desktop slow down...
[18:04] <ailo> len-dt: Did it improve anything, though?
[18:04] <ailo> len-dt: I'm only now looking at userspace control for the cpu freq
[18:04] <ailo> Ah, never mind
[18:05] <Len-nb> Still testing that... so far I haven't got it to break :P even with no tweaks.
[18:06] <ailo> seems like my builds are working.  i686 kernel builds should be ready by tomorrow
[18:06] <ailo> I'll share using ubuntuone or some other service like that
[18:09] <ailo> len-dt: So, it might be interesting to be able to change not only between cpu governors, but also choose a fixed freq?
[18:10] <Len-nb> I would say just choose freq. The top freq is the same a performance anyway.
[18:10] <Len-nb> *as
[18:10] <ailo> len-dt: Except, ondemand will change frequence no matter which to freq you use
[18:11] <ailo> As I've concluded, it is the actual change between frequencies that may introduce xruns
[18:11] <ailo> Not the freq itself
[18:11] <Len-nb> to use a spec freq, you have to change the gov to user
[18:12] <Len-nb> Then set freq
[18:12] <ailo> Sure? Not just change the top freq in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_max_freq to one of the available frequencies?
[18:15] <ailo> Misprint
[18:15] <ailo> I meant scaling_max_freq
[18:15] <ailo> And, no. Doesn't seem like it
[18:16] <Len-nb> download/install cpufreq
[18:16] <Len-nb> use cpufreq-set
[18:16] <ailo> I'd rather not have -controls depend on additional tools
[18:16] <ailo> Since it can be done manually
[18:17] <Len-nb> Yes, but it is faster for testing and explains what things have to set first before others
[18:17] <Len-nb> Or with others
[18:17] <Len-nb> Even look at the man page online
[18:21] <ailo> I'm reading the linux man right now
[18:29] <ailo> Doesn't seem to be working on this system
[18:29] <ailo> No errors, but the freq value doesn't stick
[18:30] <ailo> using userspace, editing /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed
[18:40] <Len-nb> I think the speed can't just be any speed, when I do a cpufreq-info it lists the available speeds: available frequency steps: 1.60 GHz, 1.33 GHz, 1.07 GHz, 800 MHz
[18:41] <Len-nb> When I set gov to userspace, the speed locks at full (1.6g)
[18:45] <Len-nb> I can then set the speed to 1.33g and it stays.
[18:46] <Len-nb> ailo, there must be something that tells you which speeds your system supports.
[18:47] <ailo> Len-nb: How do you check that the cpu freq stayed?
[18:47] <ailo> I was using freq-set now, which was not able to do that
[18:47] <Len-nb> I have a cpu speed app running
[18:48] <Len-nb> also cpufreq-info tells
[18:48] <ailo> cpufreq-set*
[18:49] <ailo> I don't find anyneed for cpufreq-set in this case. It doesn't do anything other than what I do manually, both reading and writing. Don't know if it has to do with this system, or kernel
[18:50] <scott-work> astraljava: are you doing the -release email?
[18:51] <scott-work> ailo: Len-nb: is there anything that should be mentioned for the -release meeting?
[18:52] <Len-nb> for .1? Not really unless it is we did no changes.
[18:52] <ailo> Len-nb: Seems like Ubuntu does things differently. I was using debian, and apparently, the directories aren't the same
[18:53] <Len-nb> :)
[18:53] <ailo> It's a little annoying. seems like the debian way is the standard way
[18:56] <Len-nb> It seems i can set my speeds to .8G, 1.33G and 1.6G. Even though 1.07 is mentioned, setting manually to that gets 1.3G
[18:56] <ailo> Ah, maybe it's because this is a virtual install
[18:56] <astraljava> scott-work: Yeah, I'll wrap it up in a few hours.
[18:58] <Len-nb> ailo, it seems 1.07 is actually just a bit less than that. If I set 1.06g I get 1.07g
[19:10] <Len-nb> Setting cpu to half speed seems to take dsp load from 50% to about 60% as compared to ondemand
[19:14] <Len-nb> 100% cpu load is 100% if the freq is fixed.
[19:15] <Len-nb> In any case, qtractor does not show any improvement that I can see with setting group or freq on the rtc/hpt.
[20:17] <ailo> Len-nb: I guess we should think about disabling /etc/init.d/ondemand
[20:18] <len-dt> It has some problems
[20:18] <len-dt> The worst one is that it takes effect 60 seconds after login.
[20:18] <len-dt> So anything done in rc.local is ineffective
[20:20] <ailo> Since we don't want it to control the governor, I vote for just removing it
[20:21] <len-dt> How do we do that "correctly"?
[20:21] <ailo> Don't know
[20:22] <len-dt> Probably running the deal that changes the link to a K99
[20:24] <len-dt> I don't think it is just one package that can be blacklisted
[20:25] <ailo> I guess we can use -controls to disable it, as soon as someone wants something else than ondemand
[20:25] <len-dt> That would be best. The one for jackdsp sensing seems to just turn preformance on at jack startup
[20:26] <ailo> This should do it: update-rc.d ondemand disable
[20:27] <ailo> len-dt: Which one is that?
[20:27] <ailo> I mean, the jackdsp sensing thing
[20:28] <len-dt> Ya that was one I was thinking about.... After you do that though... ondemand will still be there
[20:28] <len-dt> let me check
[20:29] <len-dt> http://rg42.org/oss/jackfreqd/start
[20:29] <len-dt> ailo, read all the comments, they explain things a bit better.
[20:30] <len-dt> the one " I intent 'jackfreqd' to do the same as you do: switch to
[20:30] <len-dt> “high CPU performance” when starting serious audio work and go back to low-power only at the end of the session."
[20:34] <ailo> len-dt: I'll see about adding it as a tweak too then
[20:35] <len-dt> You have to set the gov to user.
[20:37] <ailo> I picture a toggle for enabling "fixed frequency when jack is running"
[20:37] <ailo> Something like that
[20:37] <ailo> It'll adjust other settings automatically
[20:37] <ailo> in -controls
[20:38] <len-dt> So that would replace or at least be instead of jackfreqd
[20:38] <ailo> No, I mean, when enabling jackfreqd, from -controls
[20:38] <ailo> It means we would need to include it somehow in ubuntustudio-controls
[20:38] <len-dt> That only does full speed not a set speed
[20:39] <ailo> Well, whatever. I'll see the manual once I have the chance
[20:39] <ailo> The point is, the other settings will adjust automatically
[20:39] <ailo> When toggling it
[20:39] <len-dt> OK
[20:40] <len-dt> There has been interest in using full speed for some graphics/video work as well
[20:41] <ailo> For them, that toggle would not be interesting
[20:41] <len-dt> No but some way of turning it on would be.
[20:41] <ailo> They'd use 'performance', or 'fixed frequency'
[20:41] <ailo> I'm adding all of it
[20:43] <len-dt> There are three files in /etc/init.d that deal with cpufreq setup: ondmand, loadcpufreq and cpufrequtils
[20:45] <ailo> len-dt: At least cpufrequtils depends on the package with the same name
[20:46] <len-dt> The question is do we want it to run. We may need it to run and then set what we want.
[20:47] <ailo> Both loadcpufreq and cpufrequtils
[20:47] <ailo> We don't need it to set cpu settings
[20:47] <len-dt> It loads the scalling module.
[20:47] <len-dt> *scaling
[20:48] <ailo> We should be able to do everything manually
[20:48] <ailo> Which I prefer
[20:48] <len-dt> I was goin to say we can replace it.
[20:51] <ailo> We might need to add a "override cpufrequtils"
[20:51] <ailo> ..toggle
[20:51] <ailo> And have -controls disable it
[21:24] <len-dt> ailo, Are you having more than one profile? So the user can save various profiles for different uses.
[21:26] <ailo> len-dt: Haven't got that far yet
[21:27] <ailo> len-dt: I'm a bit late with this. Just preparing tests for now.
[21:27] <ailo> I won't be using jackfreqd for the tests, but I'm keeping it for the implementation of -controls
[21:37] <Len-nb> ailo, I'm giving up with the MIDI tests for now. I need a controlled situation that shows problems. So far everything i have done shows no problems in timing beyond the limits of the MIDI stream itself.
[21:40] <ailo> Yea, I will probably not touch that either for the time being
[21:41] <Len-nb> I think we should make the timers audio group and give the user the ability to set the maxfreq.
[21:41] <Len-nb> Maybe it makes a dif with rosegarden
[21:44] <ailo> I'll add the tweak
[21:44] <ailo> Len-nb: One aspect of -controls is to have users do testing themselves, and give feedback. After all, we can't test on every possible machine and device
[21:44] <ailo> Is what I realized..
[21:46] <Len-nb> Ya, In any case, I have at least tested for no bad effects.
[21:47] <Len-nb> Everything is running happy at half speed.
[22:04] <ttoine> hi
[22:04] <len-dt> ttoine, haven't seen you for a bit
[22:04] <ttoine> I was thinking I didn't had any news... and just realised that I may not be in the devel mailing list
[22:05] <len-dt> We were talking about monitor calib
[22:05] <len-dt> Colourwise
[22:06] <ttoine> len-dt: yes, shoulder surgery and holidays
[22:06] <len-dt> Oww
[22:06] <len-dt> sounds painful
[22:07] <ttoine> it was very modern surgery, so only two small points, but yes, it is painfull
[22:08] <ttoine> can someone tell me how to get again de mailing list ??
[22:09] <len-dt> I remember years ago, I had a pin put in my knee... the sprained toe I had at the same time hurt more.
[22:09] <len-dt> There is a link on the web page... I'll find it.
[22:10] <len-dt> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
[22:11] <ttoine> ok, just applied
[22:11] <ttoine> thanks, len
[22:11] <len-dt> N P
[22:13] <ttoine> It will be easier to follow and participate, I guess
[22:13] <len-dt> There are some blue print things Scott says you asked for... replacing argyl for example.
[22:15] <ttoine> ah yes, great. you know where I can find that on the wiki or something like that ? on it is only on the mailing list ?
[22:15] <len-dt> The blue print is at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-q-misc
[22:16] <len-dt> We have both argyll and gnome-colour-manager. The same thing as vanilla as far as I can tell.
[22:18] <ttoine> I think it is good to be like vanilla on this point
[22:18] <ttoine> because we don't have an expert on this point. and we don't need to invent the wheel again, as we say in french
[22:19] <len-dt> It doesn't show up in the menu, but is supposed to start when the colour detector is plugged into the USB(?) port.
[22:19] <ttoine> yes
[22:20] <ttoine> argyll is used by gnome colour management gui
[22:21] <len-dt> OK, hopefully early next week all the stuff we have committed will hit the ISO. so we can see it.
[22:21] <ttoine> ok
[22:22] <len-dt> We based our workflow on two websites for photography. I don't have the one handy but the other is http://www.rileybrandt.com/2012/07/31/linux-photo-1/
[22:23] <len-dt> ttoine, I also wanted to ask about this: color - explore making a package for adobe icc
[22:23] <len-dt> Are these ICCs for monitors?, printers?
[22:25] <len-dt> Do you have a URL for it?
[22:28] <ttoine> it could be a good thing
[22:28] <ttoine> there will be mostly printer and standards icc
[22:29] <ttoine> I look for the link, wait a bit
[22:29] <len-dt> We already have a package of iccs included. 
[22:29] <len-dt> I can wait... I leave something up on IRC almost all the time.
[22:33] <ttoine> http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/iccprofiles/iccprofiles_win.html
[22:33] <ttoine> there is only stuff for windows and mac
[22:33] <ttoine> but it is possible to unzip it
[22:34] <ttoine> it would be great to add some other stuff in the package, not only adobe icc
[22:35] <ttoine> http://www.color.org/index.xalter
[22:35] <ttoine> you will find all the icc profiles on this website
[22:36] <ttoine> and most of the screen and laptop vendors provide icc profiles for their hardware on their support website
[22:36] <ttoine> for my thinkpad, there is a icc profile available at lenovo
[22:37] <len-dt> from what I have read it needs to be set up and measured about once a month.... but I would guess those profiles are still closer tahn none.
[22:39] <ttoine> yes
[22:40] <len-dt> We ship a package called icc-profiles-free, but there is another package called icc-profiles too.
[22:40] <len-dt> Do you know if they are the same or what the difference is?
[22:41] <ttoine> I can look at it
[22:41] <ttoine> but currently, most of what is package (for example fogra icc profiles) are for america printing industrie
[22:42] <ttoine> for Europe, it miss the "Iso coated v2" icc profiles
[22:42] <ttoine> you need it in order to create cmyk pdf in Scribus for press
[22:42] <len-dt> The two packages are different. The one we don't ship is smaller and it recommends the one we do.
[22:43] <ttoine> ok
[22:43] <ttoine> for europe, all that should be available for the printing industry is on this page
[22:43] <ttoine> http://www.eci.org/en/downloads
[22:44] <ttoine> there are a lot of pdf and a fex zip packages
[22:45] <ttoine> look at the "ICC profiles from ECI" section
[22:45] <ttoine> -fex +few
[22:45] <len-dt> Ya it looks that way. 
[22:46] <len-dt> Are they of a license we can package them?
[22:48] <ttoine> I am looking for ;-)
[22:48] <knome> i doubt.. but haven't checked really.
[22:48] <len-dt> There is a disclaimer about not being responsible ... but lic stuff
[22:50] <knome> default ICC profiles would be nice to have, but then again, there are printer-specific profiles too, so rather than trying to include every standard anybody could ever need, rather just make adding the profiles easy
[22:51] <len-dt> It sounds like maybe what we need first is documentation on colour management in general
[22:51] <len-dt> Both with and without a meter.
[22:51] <ttoine> yes
[22:51] <knome> first broad support then docs ;)
[22:51] <ttoine> think that a lot of thing can be done with a basinc screen
[22:51] <ttoine> basic
[22:52] <len-dt> At least these flat screens don't change as much as crts and will stay closer longer.
[22:53] <ttoine> what we miss the most imho is a way to generate cmyk pdf with cups
[22:53] <ttoine> cups pdf at the moment generate only rgb pdf
[22:53] <len-dt> ttoine, is it worthwhile having something like lprof?
[22:54] <len-dt> Is there such a thing as a converter?
[22:54] <knome> ttoine, yeah. not enough cmyk support is the thing keeping me on win+photoshop for print
[22:54] <len-dt> Or is the quality any good?
[22:54] <knome> i don't think professionals should rely on converters
[22:54] <ttoine> we don't need lprof if we keep gnome colour gui and argyll
[22:55] <len-dt> ok.
[22:55] <ttoine> at the moment the only "good" way is to import files in scribus and use it to generate a quadri pdf
[22:56] <ttoine> there a is an old tool too, not packaged, wich can turn quadri to rgb, or rgb to quadri, using icc profiles
[22:56] <ttoine> but it is not up to date
[22:59] <ttoine> len-dt, knome: http://www.blackfiveimaging.co.uk/index.php?article=02Software%2F05CMYKTool
[23:00] <ttoine> I tried cmyktool and it works well with jpeg and tiff
[23:00] <len-dt> I had thought I had heard there was a way to save CMYK in GIMP too, but I can't find it.
[23:00] <ttoine> len-dt: with the separate+ plugin but it is not available on Linux
[23:00] <knome> jpeg and tiff ain't pdf
[23:00] <knome> :)
[23:01] <ttoine> knome: maybe you should try cmyktool and tell us if it is good or bad ?
[23:01] <ttoine> knome: yes, there is still the problem of pdf
[23:01] <knome> i'll bookmark that, but i don't know when i'll have the time to check that out
[23:01] <ttoine> maybe with a custom ppd file, cups-pdf could generate quadri pdf
[23:02] <knome> i don't know how much cmyk jpg and tiff would help the professional without cmyk pdf though
[23:02] <ttoine> len-dt: do yo want me to try to contact the eci.org staff to get licence information  ?
[23:02] <len-dt> Most of this is over my head.
[23:03] <len-dt> Sure, but the reality is that someone would have to package and maintain it.
[23:04] <knome> maybe add to the same package that has the US standards, and ask its maintainer to maintain those too
[23:04] <knome> if it looks like it's too much work or work nobody wants to take care of, just leave it
[23:04] <len-dt> And we are a small group. Some one has offered to package gimp-paint-studio for ubuntu repos, but I think at this point it may not make 12.10.
[23:04] <knome> just make adding profiles trivial
[23:05] <knome> or write a good tutorial
[23:05] <len-dt> That was why I said docs...
[23:05] <ttoine> knome: sometimes you just need one or two profiles.
[23:05] <knome> pro's probably need to add custom profiles anyway
[23:05] <ttoine> so providing links could be a good start
[23:05] <knome> yes, that's a start
[23:06] <ttoine> and the different places where to put the files
[23:06] <knome> yes
[23:06] <knome> that would be next to extremely helpful
[23:06] <ttoine> ~/.color/icc
[23:07] <ttoine> for gnome colour management
[23:07] <ttoine> but for scribus, etc... it has to be done with sudo
[23:08] <knome> other way to get moving is to make apps use standard places for profiles
[23:09] <ttoine> knome: the gnome colour management system is very young and some apps are still looking for xicc, or even older places
[23:10] <knome> .config/icc or sth like that would't sound bad
[23:10] <ttoine> .colour/icc
[23:10] <len-dt> how do I start gnome color manager?
[23:10] <ttoine> system preferences
[23:10] <knome> ttoine, that works for me too, as long as every app uses it ;)
[23:10] <ttoine> then click on the beautiful colour icon
[23:10] <ttoine> knome: ok ;-)
[23:11] <knome> the situation probably isn't better on windows actually
[23:11] <knome> doesn't mean we can't/couldn't do it better
[23:12] <ttoine> /usr/share/colour/icc
[23:12] <knome> mm
[23:12] <ttoine> knome: since windows 7, it seems to be well managed at kernell level
[23:12] <len-dt> ttoine, that doesn't get it for me
[23:12] <knome> ttoine, wouldn't know about that
[23:13] <ttoine> and of course it has always been there in Macos X
[23:13] <ttoine> for it the macos X DE is writen in visual postscript or something like that
[23:14] <ttoine> len-dt ?
[23:14] <len-dt> I can't find a way to start the color manager on US 12.04
[23:16] <ttoine> http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Getting_and_installing_ICC_profiles
[23:16] <ttoine> len-dt: vanilla ubuntu ? xubuntu ?
[23:16] <len-dt> They all start with GCM
[23:16] <len-dt> ubuntustudio.
[23:17] <len-dt> Obviously I need to add them to the menu.
[23:18] <ttoine> len-dt: can you launch gnome-control-center ?
[23:19] <ttoine> I am mostly on vanilla ubuntu
[23:19] <len-dt> No, we have the xfce one.
[23:20] <len-dt> I can get things from CLI and the *.desktop files are there... Not sure why they don't show in our menus... something to check.
[23:20] <ttoine> ok
[23:22] <len-dt> So we have had the color manager, but no menu item...
[23:23] <ttoine> in vanilla, it is integrated to the gnome-control-center... I can't even get the command name with Unity...
[23:24] <ttoine> wow, neat 1:30 am...
[23:25] <ttoine> see you later
[23:25] <len-dt> One of them is just a MIME box... Bye
[23:25] <knome> :)
[23:25] <knome> night ttoine 
[23:28] <len-dt> knome, the desktop files are all "nodisplay"
[23:28] <knome> len-dt, re: what? :)
[23:28] <len-dt> I guess they are meant to be run from right clicks and the settings manager
[23:28] <knome> probably
[23:28] <knome> we're adding a few more launchers to xfce settings manager this cycle
[23:29] <knome> maybe you could benefit from that too
[23:29] <knome> :)
[23:29] <len-dt> I will probably have to make a ubuntustudio desktop file.
[23:29] <len-dt> I saw the new launchers
[23:29] <knome> Unit193 is working on it from our side
[23:29] <len-dt> now in catagories
[23:29] <knome> so if you want to talk with him...
[23:30] <len-dt> It is not an xfce4 program though...
[23:30] <knome> that doesn't matter
[23:30] <knome> you can add a launcher to any command in xfce settings manager
[23:30] <len-dt> OK, on xubunt-devel
[23:30] <knome> yup, there
[23:30] <TheDrums> There are catagories, but limited to 4 preset ones, not quite sure how exactly those work as I haven't seen them yet.
[23:30] <knome> or here as TheDrums :P
[23:31] <TheDrums> Barely.
[23:31] <knome> meh with several nicks.
[23:33] <len-dt> Is the ability to add applications new to xfce4.10?
[23:34] <len-dt> Right clicking on an ICC file should open the importer.
[23:40] <knome> len-dt, i don't think so (4.10)
[23:41] <len-dt> Ok