[04:34] Hi! [06:01] * smartboyhw waves at hansfbaier [06:49] hi [06:49] * smartboyhw waves at hansfbaier === saidinesh5 is now known as Juan5 === Juan5 is now known as kztar === kztar is now known as awwkriti === awwkriti is now known as saidinesh5 === saidinesh5 is now known as Jucato__ === Jucato__ is now known as saidinesh5 [11:31] * smartboyhw waves at falktx [11:32] \o/ [12:59] * smartboyhw waves at scott-work [12:59] good morning smartboyhw [13:52] scott-work: If you are here: Who are the ops of #ubuntustudio and #ubuntustudio-devel? [14:04] Uh oh, FinalFreeze today [14:32] smartboyhw: i believe i have ops rights for both channels, astraljava as well, maybe holstein as well [15:04] len-dt: lowlatency on Quantal has tickless timer by default [15:04] Also, -generic [15:04] Hey ailo [15:04] Hey len-dt [15:04] ailo, ok, I am just doing some midi testing now. [15:04] smartboyhw: How's your documentation work going? [15:04] hello smartboyhw [15:05] ailo: I need to rewrite it after scott-work's instructions the day before yesterday [15:05] len-dt: what sort of testing? [15:05] I think my through stuff is remaking the packets... looking for better hardware. [15:05] smartboyhw: Have you shown to anyone yet? [15:06] I have a track on qtractor with 20 notes at the same time. [15:06] nope [15:06] As I said I need to rewrite it [15:06] then I am going out and in and rerecording. [15:07] len-dt: rerecording audio, or midi? [15:07] It looks like the instrument I was using for through is not direct through but reques the notes to go out again. [15:07] midi. [15:08] There is an 1/8 note difference from note one to note 20 [15:09] smartboyhw: Well, if you really think so. Otherwise, just show it, so we can give feedback. [15:10] ailo: I have deleted the whole thing and rewrited it! [15:11] rewriting, I should say, not rewrited [15:17] len-dt: How's your MIDI?:) [15:19] hmmm, i'm not sure what i said that would cause you to delete and completely rewrite your documentation, smartboyhw :/ [15:20] It did:):( [15:21] The original one was to just promote software [15:21] The new one was to create a scenario and be a fluid introduction to actually do it [16:06] scott-work: I think what you were talking about with him was a good starting point for documentation, namely writing up a workflow example of what he deos [16:06] I think that might be the best place to start [16:08] I'm also a bit concerned with the work load of writing workflows, at least if we want to have a complete set. [16:09] Which is why I'm focusing on basic user guides to begin with [16:09] That is really what I eas requesting from smartboyhw [16:10] I don't have a clear picture of how a basic user guide would look like for publishing though [16:11] Other than showing which applications to start [16:11] for audio, there's the obligatory introduction to linux audio [16:11] For graphics, video, publishing and photography, I think at least for three of those there's things like monitor calibration [16:15] len-dt: Been using the -rt kernel on Debian now for a couple of days [16:15] Can't say I'm too impressed [16:15] Building kernels now, btw [16:15] ailo, I am not seeing any timing problems with or without tweaks using a USB midi port and qtractor out to record at qtractor in. [16:16] All I am seeing is the delay the midi IF is adding because of the serial speed [16:16] qtractor uses alsa midi, so I did everything there. [16:16] ok [16:17] Nothing on using jackmidi [16:17] I was going to include alsa midi testing in the testing suite, but I will just focus on audio for now [16:18] I think I will have to do the same test with a higher system load. [16:19] And more irq activity [16:24] stochastic: mikeh789 is me BTW... i expired from the testers group if you get a ping about that [17:45] ailo, I have 4 softsynths, hydrogen, qtractor all going. cpu freq scaling just once in a while bumps up one step. jack shows dsp as 33-40%.. oh and firefox is running too... about 15 tabs. [17:46] memory is heading for swap :P [17:47] About to reboot to stock no tweaks I'll see if it is enough. I may have to set cpu to lowest speed to see anything. [17:55] len-dt: Doesn't seem like all cpu freq uitilities set governor for all cores, only the first [17:56] My tweak will set it manually to all cores [17:57] The one that comes with ubuntu does. It looks though all cores and sets each. [17:58] What I am saying though, is that it might be nice to set some thing other than full speed. [17:58] In this case I seem to run out of memory before cpu anyway, so why not run one speed up from half? [17:59] Makes sense, as long as the governor is set to performance [18:00] I mean, set to a fixed frequency [18:00] but that's only for the sake of saving power [18:01] the RAM problem has more to due with the desktop configuration, and which applications you are using [18:01] Or how little ram I have [18:01] I'm thinking of what to include in -controls as far as cpu freq tweaking goes [18:02] Can't include more RAM anyway [18:03] BTW, ailo, I can't see any trouble with max-user-freq=3072. Cpu usage does not go up, or fan turn on or desktop slow down... [18:04] len-dt: Did it improve anything, though? [18:04] len-dt: I'm only now looking at userspace control for the cpu freq [18:04] Ah, never mind [18:05] Still testing that... so far I haven't got it to break :P even with no tweaks. [18:06] seems like my builds are working. i686 kernel builds should be ready by tomorrow [18:06] I'll share using ubuntuone or some other service like that [18:09] len-dt: So, it might be interesting to be able to change not only between cpu governors, but also choose a fixed freq? [18:10] I would say just choose freq. The top freq is the same a performance anyway. [18:10] *as [18:10] len-dt: Except, ondemand will change frequence no matter which to freq you use [18:11] As I've concluded, it is the actual change between frequencies that may introduce xruns [18:11] Not the freq itself [18:11] to use a spec freq, you have to change the gov to user [18:12] Then set freq [18:12] Sure? Not just change the top freq in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_max_freq to one of the available frequencies? [18:15] Misprint [18:15] I meant scaling_max_freq [18:15] And, no. Doesn't seem like it [18:16] download/install cpufreq [18:16] use cpufreq-set [18:16] I'd rather not have -controls depend on additional tools [18:16] Since it can be done manually [18:17] Yes, but it is faster for testing and explains what things have to set first before others [18:17] Or with others [18:17] Even look at the man page online [18:21] I'm reading the linux man right now [18:29] Doesn't seem to be working on this system [18:29] No errors, but the freq value doesn't stick [18:30] using userspace, editing /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed [18:40] I think the speed can't just be any speed, when I do a cpufreq-info it lists the available speeds: available frequency steps: 1.60 GHz, 1.33 GHz, 1.07 GHz, 800 MHz [18:41] When I set gov to userspace, the speed locks at full (1.6g) [18:45] I can then set the speed to 1.33g and it stays. [18:46] ailo, there must be something that tells you which speeds your system supports. [18:47] Len-nb: How do you check that the cpu freq stayed? [18:47] I was using freq-set now, which was not able to do that [18:47] I have a cpu speed app running [18:48] also cpufreq-info tells [18:48] cpufreq-set* [18:49] I don't find anyneed for cpufreq-set in this case. It doesn't do anything other than what I do manually, both reading and writing. Don't know if it has to do with this system, or kernel [18:50] astraljava: are you doing the -release email? [18:51] ailo: Len-nb: is there anything that should be mentioned for the -release meeting? [18:52] for .1? Not really unless it is we did no changes. [18:52] Len-nb: Seems like Ubuntu does things differently. I was using debian, and apparently, the directories aren't the same [18:53] :) [18:53] It's a little annoying. seems like the debian way is the standard way [18:56] It seems i can set my speeds to .8G, 1.33G and 1.6G. Even though 1.07 is mentioned, setting manually to that gets 1.3G [18:56] Ah, maybe it's because this is a virtual install [18:56] scott-work: Yeah, I'll wrap it up in a few hours. [18:58] ailo, it seems 1.07 is actually just a bit less than that. If I set 1.06g I get 1.07g [19:10] Setting cpu to half speed seems to take dsp load from 50% to about 60% as compared to ondemand [19:14] 100% cpu load is 100% if the freq is fixed. [19:15] In any case, qtractor does not show any improvement that I can see with setting group or freq on the rtc/hpt. [20:17] Len-nb: I guess we should think about disabling /etc/init.d/ondemand [20:18] It has some problems [20:18] The worst one is that it takes effect 60 seconds after login. [20:18] So anything done in rc.local is ineffective [20:20] Since we don't want it to control the governor, I vote for just removing it [20:21] How do we do that "correctly"? [20:21] Don't know [20:22] Probably running the deal that changes the link to a K99 [20:24] I don't think it is just one package that can be blacklisted [20:25] I guess we can use -controls to disable it, as soon as someone wants something else than ondemand [20:25] That would be best. The one for jackdsp sensing seems to just turn preformance on at jack startup [20:26] This should do it: update-rc.d ondemand disable [20:27] len-dt: Which one is that? [20:27] I mean, the jackdsp sensing thing [20:28] Ya that was one I was thinking about.... After you do that though... ondemand will still be there [20:28] let me check [20:29] http://rg42.org/oss/jackfreqd/start [20:29] ailo, read all the comments, they explain things a bit better. [20:30] the one " I intent 'jackfreqd' to do the same as you do: switch to [20:30] “high CPU performance” when starting serious audio work and go back to low-power only at the end of the session." [20:34] len-dt: I'll see about adding it as a tweak too then [20:35] You have to set the gov to user. [20:37] I picture a toggle for enabling "fixed frequency when jack is running" [20:37] Something like that [20:37] It'll adjust other settings automatically [20:37] in -controls [20:38] So that would replace or at least be instead of jackfreqd [20:38] No, I mean, when enabling jackfreqd, from -controls [20:38] It means we would need to include it somehow in ubuntustudio-controls [20:38] That only does full speed not a set speed [20:39] Well, whatever. I'll see the manual once I have the chance [20:39] The point is, the other settings will adjust automatically [20:39] When toggling it [20:39] OK [20:40] There has been interest in using full speed for some graphics/video work as well [20:41] For them, that toggle would not be interesting [20:41] No but some way of turning it on would be. [20:41] They'd use 'performance', or 'fixed frequency' [20:41] I'm adding all of it [20:43] There are three files in /etc/init.d that deal with cpufreq setup: ondmand, loadcpufreq and cpufrequtils [20:45] len-dt: At least cpufrequtils depends on the package with the same name [20:46] The question is do we want it to run. We may need it to run and then set what we want. [20:47] Both loadcpufreq and cpufrequtils [20:47] We don't need it to set cpu settings [20:47] It loads the scalling module. [20:47] *scaling [20:48] We should be able to do everything manually [20:48] Which I prefer [20:48] I was goin to say we can replace it. [20:51] We might need to add a "override cpufrequtils" [20:51] ..toggle [20:51] And have -controls disable it [21:24] ailo, Are you having more than one profile? So the user can save various profiles for different uses. [21:26] len-dt: Haven't got that far yet [21:27] len-dt: I'm a bit late with this. Just preparing tests for now. [21:27] I won't be using jackfreqd for the tests, but I'm keeping it for the implementation of -controls [21:37] ailo, I'm giving up with the MIDI tests for now. I need a controlled situation that shows problems. So far everything i have done shows no problems in timing beyond the limits of the MIDI stream itself. [21:40] Yea, I will probably not touch that either for the time being [21:41] I think we should make the timers audio group and give the user the ability to set the maxfreq. [21:41] Maybe it makes a dif with rosegarden [21:44] I'll add the tweak [21:44] Len-nb: One aspect of -controls is to have users do testing themselves, and give feedback. After all, we can't test on every possible machine and device [21:44] Is what I realized.. [21:46] Ya, In any case, I have at least tested for no bad effects. [21:47] Everything is running happy at half speed. [22:04] hi [22:04] ttoine, haven't seen you for a bit [22:04] I was thinking I didn't had any news... and just realised that I may not be in the devel mailing list [22:05] We were talking about monitor calib [22:05] Colourwise [22:06] len-dt: yes, shoulder surgery and holidays [22:06] Oww [22:06] sounds painful [22:07] it was very modern surgery, so only two small points, but yes, it is painfull [22:08] can someone tell me how to get again de mailing list ?? [22:09] I remember years ago, I had a pin put in my knee... the sprained toe I had at the same time hurt more. [22:09] There is a link on the web page... I'll find it. [22:10] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel [22:11] ok, just applied [22:11] thanks, len [22:11] N P [22:13] It will be easier to follow and participate, I guess [22:13] There are some blue print things Scott says you asked for... replacing argyl for example. [22:15] ah yes, great. you know where I can find that on the wiki or something like that ? on it is only on the mailing list ? [22:15] The blue print is at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-q-misc [22:16] We have both argyll and gnome-colour-manager. The same thing as vanilla as far as I can tell. [22:18] I think it is good to be like vanilla on this point [22:18] because we don't have an expert on this point. and we don't need to invent the wheel again, as we say in french [22:19] It doesn't show up in the menu, but is supposed to start when the colour detector is plugged into the USB(?) port. [22:19] yes [22:20] argyll is used by gnome colour management gui [22:21] OK, hopefully early next week all the stuff we have committed will hit the ISO. so we can see it. [22:21] ok [22:22] We based our workflow on two websites for photography. I don't have the one handy but the other is http://www.rileybrandt.com/2012/07/31/linux-photo-1/ [22:23] ttoine, I also wanted to ask about this: color - explore making a package for adobe icc [22:23] Are these ICCs for monitors?, printers? [22:25] Do you have a URL for it? [22:28] it could be a good thing [22:28] there will be mostly printer and standards icc [22:29] I look for the link, wait a bit [22:29] We already have a package of iccs included. [22:29] I can wait... I leave something up on IRC almost all the time. [22:33] http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/iccprofiles/iccprofiles_win.html [22:33] there is only stuff for windows and mac [22:33] but it is possible to unzip it [22:34] it would be great to add some other stuff in the package, not only adobe icc [22:35] http://www.color.org/index.xalter [22:35] you will find all the icc profiles on this website [22:36] and most of the screen and laptop vendors provide icc profiles for their hardware on their support website [22:36] for my thinkpad, there is a icc profile available at lenovo [22:37] from what I have read it needs to be set up and measured about once a month.... but I would guess those profiles are still closer tahn none. [22:39] yes [22:40] We ship a package called icc-profiles-free, but there is another package called icc-profiles too. [22:40] Do you know if they are the same or what the difference is? [22:41] I can look at it [22:41] but currently, most of what is package (for example fogra icc profiles) are for america printing industrie [22:42] for Europe, it miss the "Iso coated v2" icc profiles [22:42] you need it in order to create cmyk pdf in Scribus for press [22:42] The two packages are different. The one we don't ship is smaller and it recommends the one we do. [22:43] ok [22:43] for europe, all that should be available for the printing industry is on this page [22:43] http://www.eci.org/en/downloads [22:44] there are a lot of pdf and a fex zip packages [22:45] look at the "ICC profiles from ECI" section [22:45] -fex +few [22:45] Ya it looks that way. [22:46] Are they of a license we can package them? [22:48] I am looking for ;-) [22:48] i doubt.. but haven't checked really. [22:48] There is a disclaimer about not being responsible ... but lic stuff [22:50] default ICC profiles would be nice to have, but then again, there are printer-specific profiles too, so rather than trying to include every standard anybody could ever need, rather just make adding the profiles easy [22:51] It sounds like maybe what we need first is documentation on colour management in general [22:51] Both with and without a meter. [22:51] yes [22:51] first broad support then docs ;) [22:51] think that a lot of thing can be done with a basinc screen [22:51] basic [22:52] At least these flat screens don't change as much as crts and will stay closer longer. [22:53] what we miss the most imho is a way to generate cmyk pdf with cups [22:53] cups pdf at the moment generate only rgb pdf [22:53] ttoine, is it worthwhile having something like lprof? [22:54] Is there such a thing as a converter? [22:54] ttoine, yeah. not enough cmyk support is the thing keeping me on win+photoshop for print [22:54] Or is the quality any good? [22:54] i don't think professionals should rely on converters [22:54] we don't need lprof if we keep gnome colour gui and argyll [22:55] ok. [22:55] at the moment the only "good" way is to import files in scribus and use it to generate a quadri pdf [22:56] there a is an old tool too, not packaged, wich can turn quadri to rgb, or rgb to quadri, using icc profiles [22:56] but it is not up to date [22:59] len-dt, knome: http://www.blackfiveimaging.co.uk/index.php?article=02Software%2F05CMYKTool [23:00] I tried cmyktool and it works well with jpeg and tiff [23:00] I had thought I had heard there was a way to save CMYK in GIMP too, but I can't find it. [23:00] len-dt: with the separate+ plugin but it is not available on Linux [23:00] jpeg and tiff ain't pdf [23:00] :) [23:01] knome: maybe you should try cmyktool and tell us if it is good or bad ? [23:01] knome: yes, there is still the problem of pdf [23:01] i'll bookmark that, but i don't know when i'll have the time to check that out [23:01] maybe with a custom ppd file, cups-pdf could generate quadri pdf [23:02] i don't know how much cmyk jpg and tiff would help the professional without cmyk pdf though [23:02] len-dt: do yo want me to try to contact the eci.org staff to get licence information ? [23:02] Most of this is over my head. [23:03] Sure, but the reality is that someone would have to package and maintain it. [23:04] maybe add to the same package that has the US standards, and ask its maintainer to maintain those too [23:04] if it looks like it's too much work or work nobody wants to take care of, just leave it [23:04] And we are a small group. Some one has offered to package gimp-paint-studio for ubuntu repos, but I think at this point it may not make 12.10. [23:04] just make adding profiles trivial [23:05] or write a good tutorial [23:05] That was why I said docs... [23:05] knome: sometimes you just need one or two profiles. [23:05] pro's probably need to add custom profiles anyway [23:05] so providing links could be a good start [23:05] yes, that's a start [23:06] and the different places where to put the files [23:06] yes [23:06] that would be next to extremely helpful [23:06] ~/.color/icc [23:07] for gnome colour management [23:07] but for scribus, etc... it has to be done with sudo [23:08] other way to get moving is to make apps use standard places for profiles [23:09] knome: the gnome colour management system is very young and some apps are still looking for xicc, or even older places [23:10] .config/icc or sth like that would't sound bad [23:10] .colour/icc [23:10] how do I start gnome color manager? [23:10] system preferences [23:10] ttoine, that works for me too, as long as every app uses it ;) [23:10] then click on the beautiful colour icon [23:10] knome: ok ;-) [23:11] the situation probably isn't better on windows actually [23:11] doesn't mean we can't/couldn't do it better [23:12] /usr/share/colour/icc [23:12] mm [23:12] knome: since windows 7, it seems to be well managed at kernell level [23:12] ttoine, that doesn't get it for me [23:12] ttoine, wouldn't know about that [23:13] and of course it has always been there in Macos X [23:13] for it the macos X DE is writen in visual postscript or something like that [23:14] len-dt ? [23:14] I can't find a way to start the color manager on US 12.04 [23:16] http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Getting_and_installing_ICC_profiles [23:16] len-dt: vanilla ubuntu ? xubuntu ? [23:16] They all start with GCM [23:16] ubuntustudio. [23:17] Obviously I need to add them to the menu. [23:18] len-dt: can you launch gnome-control-center ? [23:19] I am mostly on vanilla ubuntu [23:19] No, we have the xfce one. [23:20] I can get things from CLI and the *.desktop files are there... Not sure why they don't show in our menus... something to check. [23:20] ok [23:22] So we have had the color manager, but no menu item... [23:23] in vanilla, it is integrated to the gnome-control-center... I can't even get the command name with Unity... [23:24] wow, neat 1:30 am... [23:25] see you later [23:25] One of them is just a MIME box... Bye [23:25] :) [23:25] night ttoine [23:28] knome, the desktop files are all "nodisplay" [23:28] len-dt, re: what? :) [23:28] I guess they are meant to be run from right clicks and the settings manager [23:28] probably [23:28] we're adding a few more launchers to xfce settings manager this cycle [23:29] maybe you could benefit from that too [23:29] :) [23:29] I will probably have to make a ubuntustudio desktop file. [23:29] I saw the new launchers [23:29] Unit193 is working on it from our side [23:29] now in catagories [23:29] so if you want to talk with him... [23:30] It is not an xfce4 program though... [23:30] that doesn't matter [23:30] you can add a launcher to any command in xfce settings manager [23:30] OK, on xubunt-devel [23:30] yup, there [23:30] There are catagories, but limited to 4 preset ones, not quite sure how exactly those work as I haven't seen them yet. [23:30] or here as TheDrums :P [23:31] Barely. [23:31] meh with several nicks. [23:33] Is the ability to add applications new to xfce4.10? [23:34] Right clicking on an ICC file should open the importer. [23:40] len-dt, i don't think so (4.10) [23:41] Ok