/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/08/21/#ubuntu-us-mi.txt

derekvi'm listening to This Developer's Life about fonts and feeling stupid I don't pick all my fonts00:26
derekvlike what the hell is in xterm by default.  no idea00:26
rick_h_droidlol00:26
rick_h_droidthat's one giant rabbit hole00:27
derekvbut then that just gets into why am I using xterm...00:27
rick_h_droidI started down it but pulled up00:27
derekvyea in the end its just about hours in the day00:27
rick_h_droidwell I do get picky in my terminal and editor00:27
derekvwell i hope that in my next life I get to control my enviroment better00:28
derekvnot java eclipse00:28
rick_h_droidugh00:29
derekvactually after 1.2 weeks at cengage that is my only complaint.  its all java00:29
derekvits java/eclipse all day, but at least its on ubuntu, and when I said I thought vim and emacs were vastly better editors, it didn't lead into a 30 minute discussion where I have to explain that people still use those00:31
derekvis anyone going to strangeloop?00:32
derekvother than me?00:32
derekvhttp://fox13now.com/2012/08/20/school-holds-valedictorians-diploma-for-saying-hell/00:34
derekvhaha00:34
derekvas a justifiable stereotype, people in charge of k12 tend to be enourmous idiots00:35
snap-lhttp://lorddvirgil.bandcamp.com/track/nothing-compares-2-u <- This kinda works02:23
derekvyou should see drew's message to me about eclipse02:49
derekvthere's been about three times since I read it that I, due to nothing odd going on around me at work, seriously contemplated silently just walking away from the job02:50
snap-leh?02:52
snap-lhttp://phoenicz.bandcamp.com/ <- First song03:13
snap-lNow to try to put together an episode. :)03:30
snap-lhttp://www.jamendo.com/en/list/a112796?autoplay=1 <- Why I don't visit Jamendo much for new music.03:45
snap-lhttp://www.metalinjection.net/fm04:27
rick_h_morning11:06
snap-lhttps://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/8/16/2iY5rgV0gkWvp4ql3HYrBg2.jpg12:04
brouschI don't get it12:05
rick_h_nice mirror12:14
brouschThat's all it is? A mirror?12:20
rick_h_it's a TP mirror, nough said :)12:21
nullspacewould be nice if it was a two way mirror12:35
rick_h_everyone started their uploads to AWS Glacier?12:36
rick_h_backup my NAS for $10/mo12:36
nullspacerick_h_: first I 've heard of it, my finger is off the data services of amazon pulse12:38
rick_h_news came out overnight, a blog worth subscribing to12:38
rick_h_amazed at the new services each time12:38
rick_h_http://aws.typepad.com/12:39
nullspaceoh wow nice service12:41
nullspaceexactly what I've been looking for12:42
rick_h_yea, think I might have to start an upload for music/photos and my backups pre-install for the last couple of installs12:46
rick_h_whenever I do a fresh install I snapshot the /home /etc and such off to my NAS12:46
brousch"Amazon Glacier is optimized for data that is infrequently accessed and for which retrieval times of several hours are suitable"12:48
brouschSeveral hours? WTF12:48
snap-lThink robotic tape12:48
rick_h_yep12:48
snap-lIt's for backups, not for on-demand storage like Netflix12:49
snap-lThis is cool, but I'm still married to the idea of using rsync12:49
brouschYou love it so much you married it?12:52
rick_h_right, but this is great for "ok, all those 2011 files, sync off to glacier"12:53
rick_h_or "phew, ripped all my cds, let's put them into Glacrier"12:54
rick_h_and forget it12:54
rick_h_data you can't lose, but that doesn't/rarely changes12:54
rick_h_thinking of doing one for each year's photos12:54
brouschjrwren: http://www.meetup.com/A2-CocoaHeads/?a=socialmedia12:54
brouschrick_h_: That's a good idea12:55
rick_h_dammit I hate taxes/companies/etc.13:00
brouschYou can't hate taxes and companies. You have to pick one or the other13:01
rick_h_no, I can hate them both13:01
brouschUnless you're some kind of back to the cave man days13:01
snap-lheh13:11
rick_h_http://www.youtube.com/NextDayVideo new videos yay13:38
brouschNextMonthVideo13:39
brouschThose are from some other conference13:39
rick_h_yea, they're still going through a py science conference that went down13:47
rick_h_but at least new videos again means they're working through the log13:47
rick_h_get my hopes way way up!13:47
jcastrorick_h_: hey you do any home automation?14:49
rick_h_jcastro: no, I keep thinking of tring something, but nothing jumps out as great14:50
rick_h_I might get a nest here soon, but about it14:50
jcastroI spent a few hours last night on it14:50
jcastrocan't wait to sync up for all sorts of house things when I get up there14:50
jcastroI have many questions14:50
rick_h_I've got a guy that does the stuff14:50
rick_h_good friend, installs systems, home theaters, etc14:51
jcastrooh excellent14:51
rick_h_http://www.go-cybernet.com14:51
jcastroI will need some small-time stuff14:51
rick_h_him and his dad run a company doing it14:51
jcastroah perfect14:51
rick_h_Control 4 System (that's the stuff they tend to use)14:52
jcastroI need like my tv mounted with a proper bracket, and the new place is wired for surround but like I need the speakers professionally ceiling mounted, etc.14:52
rick_h_yea14:52
jcastrooh dude14:54
jcastroit looks like these guys run wires14:54
rick_h_yea14:54
jcastroman, this can get expensive for me14:54
jcastrohah14:54
rick_h_yes, it's crazy14:54
rick_h_they've done whole multi-seat theaters and such14:54
rick_h_multi-row I mean14:54
rick_h_with lifting decks, powered tvs/wall bits, etc14:54
jcastronod14:55
rick_h_but http://www.go-cybernet.com/systemideas.html they've got the 'simple' two room install kind of thing14:55
rick_h_I keep waiting for the android stuff to take off but seems it fell dead on the vine :(14:56
rick_h_I thought that was going to be brilliant14:56
jcastrowhich android stuff14:56
rick_h_from IO not this last year, but the year before14:56
rick_h_http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-announces-android-at-home-framework/14:56
jrwrenderekv: that This Developer's Life about fonts was one of their best14:57
rick_h_but hey, put up a G+ post asking something and I'll mention my buddy into the comments if you want14:57
jcastroah14:57
jcastroyeah, it seems the home automation stuff is niche14:57
jcastromicrosoft tried it too and they shut theirs down last year14:58
jcastroMicrosoft Hohm or whatever14:58
rick_h_yea14:58
rick_h_well that was their home server product I thought14:58
jcastroI am looking at some zwave stuff right now14:58
jcastrofor lights and power stuff14:58
rick_h_yea, I'm sure my buddy can give you the low down.14:58
jcastronod14:58
rick_h_it's funny, he does all these installs but his house is very basic14:58
rick_h_just a control for a couple of tvs and a mount14:59
jcastroI mostly need wires and stuff and installation14:59
jcastroI don't like most AV gear's integration crap, they all suck14:59
rick_h_yea, they send out monkeys to come out, wire, and hook up to the internet. THen he hooks up from Cadillac MI and programs the stuff remote for the most part14:59
jcastrothe AV receivers are the worst.14:59
rick_h_ugh, yea I need to get a new one. My AV is pre-hdmi14:59
jcastroI don't want 500 shitty DSPs, I want a bunch of HDMI ports, and a volume knob15:00
rick_h_and my sub went boom15:00
jcastroyeah same as mee15:00
rick_h_right15:00
rick_h_one day, we just don't use the tv much for anything besides netflix/west wing on AMZ right now, and usually chilling in the guest room for that15:00
jcastroI have all the gear already15:00
jcastroI <3 movies15:01
rick_h_ah very cool then15:01
rick_h_what did you get for a recevier?15:01
jcastroIt's a yamaha I've had since 2000 or so15:01
rick_h_ah15:01
jcastro5.1 DTS, etc.15:01
jcastroit's still a good receiver15:01
jrwrenbrousch: that cocoaheads group is good, but I stopped doing cocoa :)15:01
jcastroI am just getting annoyed with a seperate volume control15:01
rick_h_jcastro: yea, I keep thinking of getting the harmony just to ditch the multiple remotes/etc15:02
jcastroyeah but I hate those remotes15:02
jcastrothe repurposed boxee remote is my favorite. Up, down, left, right, enter, and back.15:02
jcastrothat's it.15:02
rick_h_hah15:02
brouschjrwren: You're the only Apphole I know near AA15:02
jcastrorick_h_: the thing is the lady who originally ordered the house got it wired for 5.115:06
jcastrobut all the plates are in the ceiling15:06
jcastroI think she was planning like bose-size speakers being ceiling mounted15:06
rick_h_yea, can't get as good of sound out of that, but it's not horrible15:06
jcastroof course all my gear is ... floor stuff15:06
rick_h_I've seen a couple installs of the ceiling stuff15:07
jcastrobut I'll use the surround ceiling mounts15:07
rick_h_ah, gotcha15:07
jcastroso I'm going to get like 2 ceiling mounts15:07
rick_h_yea, they can wire/update that. With the floor stuff you can go 7.1 :P15:07
jcastrohttp://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-On-Wall-Speaker-White/dp/B0018QNYXA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345561651&sr=8-2&keywords=polk+owm15:07
jcastrothe nice thing is the thing is already wired15:07
jcastroI just need like the blank plate replaced with a real speaker plate, and the speakers themselves mounted.15:08
rick_h_right15:08
jcastroand a bunch of ethernet run, heh15:08
jcastrodumb, all new construction, there's plenty of coax15:08
jcastrobut no ethernet15:09
jcastrobut of course, normal phone cable everywhere!15:09
jcastrogrrr15:09
rick_h_lol15:09
rick_h_no basement?15:09
rick_h_<3 basements for just running wire everywhere15:09
jcastroyeah, huge basement15:10
rick_h_then you're set15:10
jcastroit should be like, real easy15:10
jcastrothe thing is, I suck at finishing touches that pros are awesome at15:10
rick_h_yea, they do run that stuff nice/invisible15:10
jcastrolike, running the cable is easy, it's the nice finished look with the right plates, etc that I suck at15:10
jcastroif you came over it'd be a hole in the wall with a cable coming out of it.15:11
rick_h_one day I'll setup a bunch of these with PoE http://www.lctinc.net/pages/nj220_features.asp15:12
jcastroyeah15:12
jcastrosee, that is hot15:12
jcastrobummer it's 10/10015:12
rick_h_man, you'd think they'd have updated that15:13
jcastroone thing I am investigating15:13
jcastrois all computers in the basement15:13
jcastroeven the desktops15:13
rick_h_http://www.amazon.com/HP-3CNJ1000-Intellijack-Gigabit-Switch/dp/B001870F7C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345562013&sr=8-1&keywords=3CNJ100015:13
jcastroand run display/usb up15:13
rick_h_hah, run kvm over IP across the house15:14
snap-ljcastro: I'm running X10 at the moment for lights and such15:14
snap-land Squeezebox for music stuff15:15
snap-lthat's as far down the rabbit hole as I've managed15:15
jrwrenjcastro: the normal phone cable is cat5e if it is new construction, just reterminate with rj45 instead of rj11 and you are good to go.15:39
jcastro!!! What?15:39
jcastrothat would be _awesome_!15:39
jrwrenmy place was built in 2003 and that is what i did.15:40
jrwreni am going through the pyramid tutorial and just saw the toolbar for first time. good lord, no wonder you like it. it is beautiful and has all sorts of awesome to it.16:42
snap-lYeah, our apartment used cat5e. Basically, they can put in two phone lines via that cable16:45
snap-lWas kind of a mindwarp when I first saw it16:46
rick_h_jrwren: heh, well that's a more recent development and I actually don't use it in my dev bookie install16:46
rick_h_jrwren: but glad you like it :)16:46
rick_h_pyramid in a sentence: sqlalchemy + mako + well thought design + 100% test coverage + wsgi through and through == win16:47
snap-lDjango in one sentence: Django == deal with it.16:48
brouschjrwren: Is it that much different from django-debug-toolbar?16:51
jrwrensnap-l: 4 phone lines, but only 2 on an rj1116:51
jrwrenbrousch: i've not tried django-debug-toolbar, maybe I should.16:51
jrwrenbut hte difference is it was OOTB with pyramid, with django, I have to know about it and add it.16:52
brouschIt's one of the things the Django devs say everyone should be using16:52
jrwrenit was also introduced in the first 'creating a project' tutorial16:52
jrwrenbrousch: i'm not in touch with the django community enough to know these things.16:52
jrwrenwhat other things do they say? :)16:52
snap-ljrwren: Ah, right. I"m thinking of the old grounding and ring wires.16:53
brouschdjango-security is another16:53
jrwrenyeah, you won't be driving a phone with that kidn of ringer on todays wiring :)16:54
brouschSorry, django-secure16:54
brouschSouth16:56
jrwrenfinally one I know about!17:01
brouschI think that's all of the must-use modules17:03
rick_h_yea, django debugtoolbar came first17:05
rick_h_which was copied from the php framework symphony I believe17:05
rick_h_good idea...pass it around17:05
brouschsymfony17:05
rick_h_:P17:05
brouschThat was the last thing of PHP I looked at17:05
jrwrenreminds me of teh thing that stackoverflow made for asp.net, miniprofiler I think it is called17:06
brouschI typed it wrong 100 times, which is why I remember it17:06
brouschjrwren: Have you tried Flask at all?17:10
jrwrenno.17:12
rick_h_repoze.profile17:12
rick_h_it's good being wsgi17:13
rick_h_$#@$@ django17:13
brouschPut it on your list of stuff to play with after Pyramid17:13
brouschrick_h_ eh?17:13
brouschDjango kill your dog again?17:13
jrwrenrepoze is pyramid :)17:13
rick_h_jrwren: don't say that out loud lest you get shouted down for being loads of wrong17:13
jrwrenoh, maybe i did look at flast.17:14
rick_h_brousch: you mentioned a small app/trick to profile your app17:14
jrwrener, flask17:14
rick_h_brousch: repoze.profile, being true wsgi middleware is a one liner to get running and profiling all your app requests17:14
jrwrenrepoze.bfg17:14
rick_h_but can't use it in django because it's fake ass wsgi17:14
jrwrenhttp://docs.pylonsproject.org/en/latest/faq/pyramid.html17:14
rick_h_jrwren: yea, but it's a LONG way from taht17:14
brouschrick_h_: Have you tried Pyramid on Python3 yet?17:15
rick_h_brousch: no, one day I hope to get bookie up to py317:15
rick_h_I've replaced most of the non-py3 libraries I use17:15
brouschHosting is the bugger now I think17:15
rick_h_ec2 ftw17:15
rick_h_but yea, it's like php517:15
brouschRight17:15
rick_h_it takes until the server OSes start shipping with it ootb before it takes off17:16
rick_h_until they do, it'll be in the background17:16
brouschHeh, Dreamhost is still Python2.6, and I had to bed for that17:16
brouschbeg17:16
rick_h_make it more work to install a backwards python in order to run your apps and see if py3 stuff doesn't start coming out in a hurry17:16
brouschDjango on Py3 will help a lot. All of the Django-focused Python webapp hosts will have to support 317:17
rick_h_yea, but server still matters17:17
rick_h_dreamhost still has customers galore without supporting 2.7/3.X17:18
rick_h_just because django supports py3 doesn't mean hosts will add it until the server does17:18
snap-lWow, this Apress e-mail couldn't have worse timing17:24
snap-lHow to Create the Next Facebook: Seeing your Startup through,17:25
snap-lfrom Idea to IPO17:25
snap-lBeginning Facebook Game Apps Development17:25
snap-lBeginning iOS Apps with Facebook and Twitter APIs17:25
snap-lMaybe that's why they're on sale. ;)17:26
jrwreni'm still targetting 2.617:48
jrwrenthere just isn't that much compelling to upgrade. its lots of little things, but nothing absolutely MUST HAVE17:48
rick_h_2.7 ftw17:49
brouschjrwren: Well it's out of active support, so they are only releasing security fixes as source code. So if you want to patch security holes you have to compile it yourself. Also, security patches will go away Oct 201317:51
brouschhttp://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.8/17:51
jrwrenwhat is security? :)18:09
snap-lIt's that thing that keeps us from having what we want.18:10
jrwren2.6.8 just has a few patches, if you aren't exposing those api to external input, then you need not worry about the security.18:14
greg-gI think I couldn't contribute to a lot of different open source projects, I keep checking on my merge requests18:43
greg-gand thus, wasting time18:43
greg-gmaybe if I just contribute to a bunch of them, then I wouldn't be able to track them all.18:44
rick_h_huh?18:44
greg-g... or if they would just give me commit privs18:44
rick_h_ah, trouble waiting on the owners of the repos?18:44
greg-goh, I just have a tab open that I refresh every now and then for a merge request I sent this morning18:44
greg-gyeah18:44
rick_h_heh, sign up for emails and let it go18:44
rick_h_some people take forever18:44
rick_h_took me a month to get a "looking this over why didn't you do this?"18:45
rick_h_now it's a month ago and I don't recall what "this" is18:45
greg-g:)18:45
brouschThat's because it's not this, it's that.18:45
snap-lYeah, e-mail or bust when it comes to waiting for other people.18:46
greg-g:)18:46
* greg-g is impatient!18:46
snap-lgreg-g: Yeah, I know nothing about impatience.18:47
* snap-l is Captain Gratification18:47
jrwrengreg-g: just train yourself to fire and forget your patches & change requests.18:55
greg-gyes yes, I'm real good at training myself to change my habits, uh huh18:56
brouschDo I smell sarcasm?18:57
jrwrenfor some reason, i'm good at fire and forget patches & CR18:57
rick_h_boo can't figure out how to submit a comment http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=389247618:57
snap-lWhich is why I'm regularly saving money, exercising, and doing regular programming development.18:57
jrwrensnap-l: i do all those things.18:57
jrwrenbrousch: just found out that at work we are shipping something with flask and mako18:58
brouschnice!18:58
rick_h_jrwren: mako ftw18:59
rick_h_flask is acceptable :P18:59
rick_h_at least it's wsgi18:59
rick_h_and armin is pretty damn smart18:59
jrwrenwe do a ton with ancient stuff that is non wsgi too18:59
brouschReally?18:59
rick_h_burn him!18:59
rick_h_can anyone else reply to that HN thread?18:59
jrwrenno reason to upgrade if it works19:00
brouschI think the only thing I touched pre-WSGI was CherryPy19:00
rick_h_I'm logged in, is there some karma system I'm not high enough up on?19:00
brouschI don't even have a login there19:00
jrwrenrick_h_: no i can't. i'm going to guess it is closed because it is so old19:00
rick_h_oh wtf...that just hit my rss feed today19:00
rick_h_ok, nvm then19:01
rick_h_thanks jrwren19:01
greg-gso, who's going to use Amazon Glacier for backups?19:26
rick_h_thinking about it for my photos, one bucket per year, my music, and bookie db backups > 1mo old19:27
* greg-g nods19:27
greg-gI need to learn how to talk to AWS19:27
rick_h_boto + python, easy as pie19:28
greg-gI'll guess I'll just sit back and wait for the awesome tools to support it (or be created around it)19:32
rick_h_the guy that writes boto is hired by AWS19:33
rick_h_it should support it inside a week I'd guess19:33
rick_h_and then just script it and check out s3cmd which will add to it19:33
rick_h_although hmm, guess s3cmd might not19:33
rick_h_but yea, I'd give it a week/two for the tools to add up19:34
greg-gyeah, and thinking about the best way to interact with it, that'll take me a bit19:34
jrwrensame here re: glacier. i'd been archiving to S3 anyway, and rarely reading. Glacer just reduced the cost from a few dollars to pennies.19:55
rick_h_right19:56
brouschrick_h_: I started a Makefile for my barcamp session grid project20:50
brouschVery useful20:50

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