[00:26] <derekv> i'm listening to This Developer's Life about fonts and feeling stupid I don't pick all my fonts
[00:26] <derekv> like what the hell is in xterm by default.  no idea
[00:26] <rick_h_droid> lol
[00:27] <rick_h_droid> that's one giant rabbit hole
[00:27] <derekv> but then that just gets into why am I using xterm...
[00:27] <rick_h_droid> I started down it but pulled up
[00:27] <derekv> yea in the end its just about hours in the day
[00:27] <rick_h_droid> well I do get picky in my terminal and editor
[00:28] <derekv> well i hope that in my next life I get to control my enviroment better
[00:28] <derekv> not java eclipse
[00:29] <rick_h_droid> ugh
[00:29] <derekv> actually after 1.2 weeks at cengage that is my only complaint.  its all java
[00:31] <derekv> its java/eclipse all day, but at least its on ubuntu, and when I said I thought vim and emacs were vastly better editors, it didn't lead into a 30 minute discussion where I have to explain that people still use those
[00:32] <derekv> is anyone going to strangeloop?
[00:32] <derekv> other than me?
[00:34] <derekv> http://fox13now.com/2012/08/20/school-holds-valedictorians-diploma-for-saying-hell/
[00:34] <derekv> haha
[00:35] <derekv> as a justifiable stereotype, people in charge of k12 tend to be enourmous idiots
[02:23] <snap-l> http://lorddvirgil.bandcamp.com/track/nothing-compares-2-u <- This kinda works
[02:49] <derekv> you should see drew's message to me about eclipse
[02:50] <derekv> there's been about three times since I read it that I, due to nothing odd going on around me at work, seriously contemplated silently just walking away from the job
[02:52] <snap-l> eh?
[03:13] <snap-l> http://phoenicz.bandcamp.com/ <- First song
[03:30] <snap-l> Now to try to put together an episode. :)
[03:45] <snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/en/list/a112796?autoplay=1 <- Why I don't visit Jamendo much for new music.
[04:27] <snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/fm
[11:06] <rick_h_> morning
[12:04] <snap-l> https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/8/16/2iY5rgV0gkWvp4ql3HYrBg2.jpg
[12:05] <brousch> I don't get it
[12:14] <rick_h_> nice mirror
[12:20] <brousch> That's all it is? A mirror?
[12:21] <rick_h_> it's a TP mirror, nough said :)
[12:35] <nullspace> would be nice if it was a two way mirror
[12:36] <rick_h_> everyone started their uploads to AWS Glacier?
[12:36] <rick_h_> backup my NAS for $10/mo
[12:38] <nullspace> rick_h_: first I 've heard of it, my finger is off the data services of amazon pulse
[12:38] <rick_h_> news came out overnight, a blog worth subscribing to
[12:38] <rick_h_> amazed at the new services each time
[12:39] <rick_h_> http://aws.typepad.com/
[12:41] <nullspace> oh wow nice service
[12:42] <nullspace> exactly what I've been looking for
[12:46] <rick_h_> yea, think I might have to start an upload for music/photos and my backups pre-install for the last couple of installs
[12:46] <rick_h_> whenever I do a fresh install I snapshot the /home /etc and such off to my NAS
[12:48] <brousch> "Amazon Glacier is optimized for data that is infrequently accessed and for which retrieval times of several hours are suitable"
[12:48] <brousch> Several hours? WTF
[12:48] <snap-l> Think robotic tape
[12:48] <rick_h_> yep
[12:49] <snap-l> It's for backups, not for on-demand storage like Netflix
[12:49] <snap-l> This is cool, but I'm still married to the idea of using rsync
[12:52] <brousch> You love it so much you married it?
[12:53] <rick_h_> right, but this is great for "ok, all those 2011 files, sync off to glacier"
[12:54] <rick_h_> or "phew, ripped all my cds, let's put them into Glacrier"
[12:54] <rick_h_> and forget it
[12:54] <rick_h_> data you can't lose, but that doesn't/rarely changes
[12:54] <rick_h_> thinking of doing one for each year's photos
[12:54] <brousch> jrwren: http://www.meetup.com/A2-CocoaHeads/?a=socialmedia
[12:55] <brousch> rick_h_: That's a good idea
[13:00] <rick_h_> dammit I hate taxes/companies/etc.
[13:01] <brousch> You can't hate taxes and companies. You have to pick one or the other
[13:01] <rick_h_> no, I can hate them both
[13:01] <brousch> Unless you're some kind of back to the cave man days
[13:11] <snap-l> heh
[13:38] <rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/NextDayVideo new videos yay
[13:39] <brousch> NextMonthVideo
[13:39] <brousch> Those are from some other conference
[13:47] <rick_h_> yea, they're still going through a py science conference that went down
[13:47] <rick_h_> but at least new videos again means they're working through the log
[13:47] <rick_h_> get my hopes way way up!
[14:49] <jcastro> rick_h_: hey you do any home automation?
[14:50] <rick_h_> jcastro: no, I keep thinking of tring something, but nothing jumps out as great
[14:50] <rick_h_> I might get a nest here soon, but about it
[14:50] <jcastro> I spent a few hours last night on it
[14:50] <jcastro> can't wait to sync up for all sorts of house things when I get up there
[14:50] <jcastro> I have many questions
[14:50] <rick_h_> I've got a guy that does the stuff
[14:51] <rick_h_> good friend, installs systems, home theaters, etc
[14:51] <jcastro> oh excellent
[14:51] <rick_h_> http://www.go-cybernet.com
[14:51] <jcastro> I will need some small-time stuff
[14:51] <rick_h_> him and his dad run a company doing it
[14:51] <jcastro> ah perfect
[14:52] <rick_h_> Control 4 System (that's the stuff they tend to use)
[14:52] <jcastro> I need like my tv mounted with a proper bracket, and the new place is wired for surround but like I need the speakers professionally ceiling mounted, etc.
[14:52] <rick_h_> yea
[14:54] <jcastro> oh dude
[14:54] <jcastro> it looks like these guys run wires
[14:54] <rick_h_> yea
[14:54] <jcastro> man, this can get expensive for me
[14:54] <jcastro> hah
[14:54] <rick_h_> yes, it's crazy
[14:54] <rick_h_> they've done whole multi-seat theaters and such
[14:54] <rick_h_> multi-row I mean
[14:54] <rick_h_> with lifting decks, powered tvs/wall bits, etc
[14:55] <jcastro> nod
[14:55] <rick_h_> but http://www.go-cybernet.com/systemideas.html they've got the 'simple' two room install kind of thing
[14:56] <rick_h_> I keep waiting for the android stuff to take off but seems it fell dead on the vine :(
[14:56] <rick_h_> I thought that was going to be brilliant
[14:56] <jcastro> which android stuff
[14:56] <rick_h_> from IO not this last year, but the year before
[14:56] <rick_h_> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-announces-android-at-home-framework/
[14:57] <jrwren> derekv: that This Developer's Life about fonts was one of their best
[14:57] <rick_h_> but hey, put up a G+ post asking something and I'll mention my buddy into the comments if you want
[14:57] <jcastro> ah
[14:57] <jcastro> yeah, it seems the home automation stuff is niche
[14:58] <jcastro> microsoft tried it too and they shut theirs down last year
[14:58] <jcastro> Microsoft Hohm or whatever
[14:58] <rick_h_> yea
[14:58] <rick_h_> well that was their home server product I thought
[14:58] <jcastro> I am looking at some zwave stuff right now
[14:58] <jcastro> for lights and power stuff
[14:58] <rick_h_> yea, I'm sure my buddy can give you the low down.
[14:58] <jcastro> nod
[14:58] <rick_h_> it's funny, he does all these installs but his house is very basic
[14:59] <rick_h_> just a control for a couple of tvs and a mount
[14:59] <jcastro> I mostly need wires and stuff and installation
[14:59] <jcastro> I don't like most AV gear's integration crap, they all suck
[14:59] <rick_h_> yea, they send out monkeys to come out, wire, and hook up to the internet. THen he hooks up from Cadillac MI and programs the stuff remote for the most part
[14:59] <jcastro> the AV receivers are the worst.
[14:59] <rick_h_> ugh, yea I need to get a new one. My AV is pre-hdmi
[15:00] <jcastro> I don't want 500 shitty DSPs, I want a bunch of HDMI ports, and a volume knob
[15:00] <rick_h_> and my sub went boom
[15:00] <jcastro> yeah same as mee
[15:00] <rick_h_> right
[15:00] <rick_h_> one day, we just don't use the tv much for anything besides netflix/west wing on AMZ right now, and usually chilling in the guest room for that
[15:00] <jcastro> I have all the gear already
[15:01] <jcastro> I <3 movies
[15:01] <rick_h_> ah very cool then
[15:01] <rick_h_> what did you get for a recevier?
[15:01] <jcastro> It's a yamaha I've had since 2000 or so
[15:01] <rick_h_> ah
[15:01] <jcastro> 5.1 DTS, etc.
[15:01] <jcastro> it's still a good receiver
[15:01] <jrwren> brousch: that cocoaheads group is good, but I stopped doing cocoa :)
[15:01] <jcastro> I am just getting annoyed with a seperate volume control
[15:02] <rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I keep thinking of getting the harmony just to ditch the multiple remotes/etc
[15:02] <jcastro> yeah but I hate those remotes
[15:02] <jcastro> the repurposed boxee remote is my favorite. Up, down, left, right, enter, and back.
[15:02] <jcastro> that's it.
[15:02] <rick_h_> hah
[15:02] <brousch> jrwren: You're the only Apphole I know near AA
[15:06] <jcastro> rick_h_: the thing is the lady who originally ordered the house got it wired for 5.1
[15:06] <jcastro> but all the plates are in the ceiling
[15:06] <jcastro> I think she was planning like bose-size speakers being ceiling mounted
[15:06] <rick_h_> yea, can't get as good of sound out of that, but it's not horrible
[15:06] <jcastro> of course all my gear is ... floor stuff
[15:07] <rick_h_> I've seen a couple installs of the ceiling stuff
[15:07] <jcastro> but I'll use the surround ceiling mounts
[15:07] <rick_h_> ah, gotcha
[15:07] <jcastro> so I'm going to get like 2 ceiling mounts
[15:07] <rick_h_> yea, they can wire/update that. With the floor stuff you can go 7.1 :P
[15:07] <jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-On-Wall-Speaker-White/dp/B0018QNYXA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345561651&sr=8-2&keywords=polk+owm
[15:07] <jcastro> the nice thing is the thing is already wired
[15:08] <jcastro> I just need like the blank plate replaced with a real speaker plate, and the speakers themselves mounted.
[15:08] <rick_h_> right
[15:08] <jcastro> and a bunch of ethernet run, heh
[15:08] <jcastro> dumb, all new construction, there's plenty of coax
[15:09] <jcastro> but no ethernet
[15:09] <jcastro> but of course, normal phone cable everywhere!
[15:09] <jcastro> grrr
[15:09] <rick_h_> lol
[15:09] <rick_h_> no basement?
[15:09] <rick_h_> <3 basements for just running wire everywhere
[15:10] <jcastro> yeah, huge basement
[15:10] <rick_h_> then you're set
[15:10] <jcastro> it should be like, real easy
[15:10] <jcastro> the thing is, I suck at finishing touches that pros are awesome at
[15:10] <rick_h_> yea, they do run that stuff nice/invisible
[15:10] <jcastro> like, running the cable is easy, it's the nice finished look with the right plates, etc that I suck at
[15:11] <jcastro> if you came over it'd be a hole in the wall with a cable coming out of it.
[15:12] <rick_h_> one day I'll setup a bunch of these with PoE http://www.lctinc.net/pages/nj220_features.asp
[15:12] <jcastro> yeah
[15:12] <jcastro> see, that is hot
[15:12] <jcastro> bummer it's 10/100
[15:13] <rick_h_> man, you'd think they'd have updated that
[15:13] <jcastro> one thing I am investigating
[15:13] <jcastro> is all computers in the basement
[15:13] <jcastro> even the desktops
[15:13] <rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/HP-3CNJ1000-Intellijack-Gigabit-Switch/dp/B001870F7C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345562013&sr=8-1&keywords=3CNJ1000
[15:13] <jcastro> and run display/usb up
[15:14] <rick_h_> hah, run kvm over IP across the house
[15:14] <snap-l> jcastro: I'm running X10 at the moment for lights and such
[15:15] <snap-l> and Squeezebox for music stuff
[15:15] <snap-l> that's as far down the rabbit hole as I've managed
[15:39] <jrwren> jcastro: the normal phone cable is cat5e if it is new construction, just reterminate with rj45 instead of rj11 and you are good to go.
[15:39] <jcastro> !!! What?
[15:39] <jcastro> that would be _awesome_!
[15:40] <jrwren> my place was built in 2003 and that is what i did.
[16:42] <jrwren> i am going through the pyramid tutorial and just saw the toolbar for first time. good lord, no wonder you like it. it is beautiful and has all sorts of awesome to it.
[16:45] <snap-l> Yeah, our apartment used cat5e. Basically, they can put in two phone lines via that cable
[16:46] <snap-l> Was kind of a mindwarp when I first saw it
[16:46] <rick_h_> jrwren: heh, well that's a more recent development and I actually don't use it in my dev bookie install
[16:46] <rick_h_> jrwren: but glad you like it :)
[16:47] <rick_h_> pyramid in a sentence: sqlalchemy + mako + well thought design + 100% test coverage + wsgi through and through == win
[16:48] <snap-l> Django in one sentence: Django == deal with it.
[16:51] <brousch> jrwren: Is it that much different from django-debug-toolbar?
[16:51] <jrwren> snap-l: 4 phone lines, but only 2 on an rj11
[16:51] <jrwren> brousch: i've not tried django-debug-toolbar, maybe I should.
[16:52] <jrwren> but hte difference is it was OOTB with pyramid, with django, I have to know about it and add it.
[16:52] <brousch> It's one of the things the Django devs say everyone should be using
[16:52] <jrwren> it was also introduced in the first 'creating a project' tutorial
[16:52] <jrwren> brousch: i'm not in touch with the django community enough to know these things.
[16:52] <jrwren> what other things do they say? :)
[16:53] <snap-l> jrwren: Ah, right. I"m thinking of the old grounding and ring wires.
[16:53] <brousch> django-security is another
[16:54] <jrwren> yeah, you won't be driving a phone with that kidn of ringer on todays wiring :)
[16:54] <brousch> Sorry, django-secure
[16:56] <brousch> South
[17:01] <jrwren> finally one I know about!
[17:03] <brousch> I think that's all of the must-use modules
[17:05] <rick_h_> yea, django debugtoolbar came first
[17:05] <rick_h_> which was copied from the php framework symphony I believe
[17:05] <rick_h_> good idea...pass it around
[17:05] <brousch> symfony
[17:05] <rick_h_> :P
[17:05] <brousch> That was the last thing of PHP I looked at
[17:06] <jrwren> reminds me of teh thing that stackoverflow made for asp.net, miniprofiler I think it is called
[17:06] <brousch> I typed it wrong 100 times, which is why I remember it
[17:10] <brousch> jrwren: Have you tried Flask at all?
[17:12] <jrwren> no.
[17:12] <rick_h_> repoze.profile
[17:13] <rick_h_> it's good being wsgi
[17:13] <rick_h_> $#@$@ django
[17:13] <brousch> Put it on your list of stuff to play with after Pyramid
[17:13] <brousch> rick_h_ eh?
[17:13] <brousch> Django kill your dog again?
[17:13] <jrwren> repoze is pyramid :)
[17:13] <rick_h_> jrwren: don't say that out loud lest you get shouted down for being loads of wrong
[17:14] <jrwren> oh, maybe i did look at flast.
[17:14] <rick_h_> brousch: you mentioned a small app/trick to profile your app
[17:14] <jrwren> er, flask
[17:14] <rick_h_> brousch: repoze.profile, being true wsgi middleware is a one liner to get running and profiling all your app requests
[17:14] <jrwren> repoze.bfg
[17:14] <rick_h_> but can't use it in django because it's fake ass wsgi
[17:14] <jrwren> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/en/latest/faq/pyramid.html
[17:14] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but it's a LONG way from taht
[17:15] <brousch> rick_h_: Have you tried Pyramid on Python3 yet?
[17:15] <rick_h_> brousch: no, one day I hope to get bookie up to py3
[17:15] <rick_h_> I've replaced most of the non-py3 libraries I use
[17:15] <brousch> Hosting is the bugger now I think
[17:15] <rick_h_> ec2 ftw
[17:15] <rick_h_> but yea, it's like php5
[17:15] <brousch> Right
[17:16] <rick_h_> it takes until the server OSes start shipping with it ootb before it takes off
[17:16] <rick_h_> until they do, it'll be in the background
[17:16] <brousch> Heh, Dreamhost is still Python2.6, and I had to bed for that
[17:16] <brousch> beg
[17:16] <rick_h_> make it more work to install a backwards python in order to run your apps and see if py3 stuff doesn't start coming out in a hurry
[17:17] <brousch> Django on Py3 will help a lot. All of the Django-focused Python webapp hosts will have to support 3
[17:17] <rick_h_> yea, but server still matters
[17:18] <rick_h_> dreamhost still has customers galore without supporting 2.7/3.X
[17:18] <rick_h_> just because django supports py3 doesn't mean hosts will add it until the server does
[17:24] <snap-l> Wow, this Apress e-mail couldn't have worse timing
[17:25] <snap-l> How to Create the Next Facebook: Seeing your Startup through,
[17:25] <snap-l> from Idea to IPO
[17:25] <snap-l> Beginning Facebook Game Apps Development
[17:25] <snap-l> Beginning iOS Apps with Facebook and Twitter APIs
[17:26] <snap-l> Maybe that's why they're on sale. ;)
[17:48] <jrwren> i'm still targetting 2.6
[17:48] <jrwren> there just isn't that much compelling to upgrade. its lots of little things, but nothing absolutely MUST HAVE
[17:49] <rick_h_> 2.7 ftw
[17:51] <brousch> jrwren: Well it's out of active support, so they are only releasing security fixes as source code. So if you want to patch security holes you have to compile it yourself. Also, security patches will go away Oct 2013
[17:51] <brousch> http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.8/
[18:09] <jrwren> what is security? :)
[18:10] <snap-l> It's that thing that keeps us from having what we want.
[18:14] <jrwren> 2.6.8 just has a few patches, if you aren't exposing those api to external input, then you need not worry about the security.
[18:43] <greg-g> I think I couldn't contribute to a lot of different open source projects, I keep checking on my merge requests
[18:43] <greg-g> and thus, wasting time
[18:44] <greg-g> maybe if I just contribute to a bunch of them, then I wouldn't be able to track them all.
[18:44] <rick_h_> huh?
[18:44] <greg-g> ... or if they would just give me commit privs
[18:44] <rick_h_> ah, trouble waiting on the owners of the repos?
[18:44] <greg-g> oh, I just have a tab open that I refresh every now and then for a merge request I sent this morning
[18:44] <greg-g> yeah
[18:44] <rick_h_> heh, sign up for emails and let it go
[18:44] <rick_h_> some people take forever
[18:45] <rick_h_> took me a month to get a "looking this over why didn't you do this?"
[18:45] <rick_h_> now it's a month ago and I don't recall what "this" is
[18:45] <greg-g> :)
[18:45] <brousch> That's because it's not this, it's that.
[18:46] <snap-l> Yeah, e-mail or bust when it comes to waiting for other people.
[18:46] <greg-g> :)
[18:46]  * greg-g is impatient!
[18:47] <snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I know nothing about impatience.
[18:47]  * snap-l is Captain Gratification
[18:55] <jrwren> greg-g: just train yourself to fire and forget your patches & change requests.
[18:56] <greg-g> yes yes, I'm real good at training myself to change my habits, uh huh
[18:57] <brousch> Do I smell sarcasm?
[18:57] <jrwren> for some reason, i'm good at fire and forget patches & CR
[18:57] <rick_h_> boo can't figure out how to submit a comment http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3892476
[18:57] <snap-l> Which is why I'm regularly saving money, exercising, and doing regular programming development.
[18:57] <jrwren> snap-l: i do all those things.
[18:58] <jrwren> brousch: just found out that at work we are shipping something with flask and mako
[18:58] <brousch> nice!
[18:59] <rick_h_> jrwren: mako ftw
[18:59] <rick_h_> flask is acceptable :P
[18:59] <rick_h_> at least it's wsgi
[18:59] <rick_h_> and armin is pretty damn smart
[18:59] <jrwren> we do a ton with ancient stuff that is non wsgi too
[18:59] <brousch> Really?
[18:59] <rick_h_> burn him!
[18:59] <rick_h_> can anyone else reply to that HN thread?
[19:00] <jrwren> no reason to upgrade if it works
[19:00] <brousch> I think the only thing I touched pre-WSGI was CherryPy
[19:00] <rick_h_> I'm logged in, is there some karma system I'm not high enough up on?
[19:00] <brousch> I don't even have a login there
[19:00] <jrwren> rick_h_: no i can't. i'm going to guess it is closed because it is so old
[19:00] <rick_h_> oh wtf...that just hit my rss feed today
[19:01] <rick_h_> ok, nvm then
[19:01] <rick_h_> thanks jrwren
[19:26] <greg-g> so, who's going to use Amazon Glacier for backups?
[19:27] <rick_h_> thinking about it for my photos, one bucket per year, my music, and bookie db backups > 1mo old
[19:27]  * greg-g nods
[19:27] <greg-g> I need to learn how to talk to AWS
[19:28] <rick_h_> boto + python, easy as pie
[19:32] <greg-g> I'll guess I'll just sit back and wait for the awesome tools to support it (or be created around it)
[19:33] <rick_h_> the guy that writes boto is hired by AWS
[19:33] <rick_h_> it should support it inside a week I'd guess
[19:33] <rick_h_> and then just script it and check out s3cmd which will add to it
[19:33] <rick_h_> although hmm, guess s3cmd might not
[19:34] <rick_h_> but yea, I'd give it a week/two for the tools to add up
[19:34] <greg-g> yeah, and thinking about the best way to interact with it, that'll take me a bit
[19:55] <jrwren> same here re: glacier. i'd been archiving to S3 anyway, and rarely reading. Glacer just reduced the cost from a few dollars to pennies.
[19:56] <rick_h_> right
[20:50] <brousch> rick_h_: I started a Makefile for my barcamp session grid project
[20:50] <brousch> Very useful