[00:01] <robru> bryceh, anything useful on that bug?
[00:05] <bryceh> robru, nothing abnormal in those logs, just the GPFs in gnome-panel
[00:05] <bryceh> robru, anything in /var/crash ?
[00:05] <robru> there are two for gnome-panel
[00:05] <bryceh> bingo
[00:06] <robru> no, wait, one's a .upload, so I uploaded it already
[00:06] <bryceh> robru, so, use apport-retrace to turn those into stack traces - see http://www.piware.de/2011/08/apport-retrace-made-useful/
[00:07] <robru> doesn't seem to be doing anything...
[00:09] <robru> is apport-retrace known for running silently for a long time? it's just sitting there with no output.
[00:09] <bryceh> no it should give something back relatively quickly.  what's your command line?
[00:09] <robru> $ apport-retrace -s -S system /var/crash/_usr_bin_gnome-panel.1000.crash
[00:09] <robru> just like on that link you sent me
[00:09] <bryceh> yep
[00:09] <bryceh> hmm
[00:10] <bryceh> maybe it's downloading symbol packages, we can give it a few minutes
[00:11] <bryceh> running it with -v would probably clue us in on what it's doing
[00:11] <robru> ok, yes, in the meantime suddenly unity has decided to draw the orange 'maximize' box over the right half of my screen. I was not dragging a window when this happened, and it won't go away.
[00:12] <robru> weird, made it go away by dragging a window
[00:12] <robru> -v is showing that it's doing an apt-get update with all kinds of errors
[00:13] <bryceh> example?
[00:13] <robru> Err http://ddebs.ubuntu.com quantal/multiverse Translation-en
[00:13] <robru>                                                                              
[00:13] <robru> Err http://ddebs.ubuntu.com quantal/restricted Translation-en
[00:13] <robru>                                                                              
[00:13] <robru> Err http://ddebs.ubuntu.com quantal/universe Translation-en
[00:13] <robru>                                                                              
[00:13] <robru> Err http://ddebs.ubuntu.com quantal/main Translation-en
[00:13] <robru> x100
[00:13] <bryceh> hmm
[00:13] <robru> still going though
[00:14] <robru> sorry, I mean, it's not ALL errors, just a lot of them.
[00:14] <robru> there are many successful hits scrolling past the screen now. mostly errors at the beginning
[00:14] <bryceh> ok, not sure what causes those, maybe they're not relevant
[00:15] <bryceh> looks like you can get apport-retrace to cache stuff via '-C ~/.cache/apport-retrace'
[00:16] <robru> I'll let it go for a bit I guess.
[00:19] <robru> bryceh, ok, it's spewed a load of errors at me now, want me to pastebin it?
[00:19] <bryceh> yep
[00:20] <robru> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1159968/ there we go
[00:20] <bryceh> ah nice
[00:21] <robru> does this look in any way related to gnome-shell running in 2d mode? or is this a whole other thing?
[00:22] <bryceh> interestingly it looks like it's faulting in gtk code
[00:22] <robru> ok
[00:23] <bryceh> so, maybe unrelated to the X update after all, but still looking
[00:25] <robru> let me know if you need any more info
[00:25] <bryceh> bugs #948667 and #1036403 appear to show the same fault
[00:25] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 948667 in gnome-panel "gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_widget_pop_verify_invariants()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948667
[00:26] <bryceh> 948667 has a shedload of dupes
[00:26] <robru> seems like a good one to fix then ;-)
[00:28] <bryceh> robru, what's your steps to reproduce it?
[00:29] <robru> step 1. log in. step 2. crash.
[00:29] <robru> any thoughts on the gnome-shell 2d fallback? gnome-shell doesn't use gnome-panel does it? I thought gnome-panel was the old gnome2 thing.
[00:31] <bryceh> I'm not a gnome dev, I'm not sure exactly how everything's wired together, but I believe it's using metacity rather than the gnome-shell renderer.
[00:32] <robru> oh, thunderbird is crashing too!
[00:32] <robru> man, my system has really gone to hell today
[00:32] <robru> apport isn't even noticing thunderbird crashing. nothing in /var/crash either.
[00:33] <robru> (thunderbird:19741): e-data-server-ERROR **: Error calling StartServiceByName for org.gnome.evolution.dataserver.Sources0: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ExecFailed: Failed to execute program /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-source-registry: Success
[00:33] <robru> Trace/breakpoint trap (core dumped)
[00:33] <bryceh> robru, welcome to running the development version of ubuntu ;-)
[00:33] <robru> There's a weird error. "Thunderbird has crashed because of Evolution." well, I don't really want Evolution if i'm running thunderbird, do I?
[00:35] <robru> installing EDS seems to have fixed thunderbird. impressive
[00:37] <robru> bryceh, do you know why the launchpad apport retracing service thing always tells me that my stack traces are invalid because a handful of packages are out of date, but then I go to do an update&&dist-upgrade and there are no updates to install? that has been infuriating me for a while now
[00:37] <robru> I have reported a *lot* of invalid bugs over the last month.
[00:37] <bryceh> robru, that annoys me as well.  Happens all the time with gnome bits.
[00:38] <robru> is there any way around that? any way to say "no, I have all the updates, don't mark my bug as invalid."
[00:39] <bryceh>  robru yeah there is an environment variable you can set
[00:39] <bryceh> APPORT_IGNORE_OBSOLETE_PACKAGES=1
[00:39] <robru> THANK YOU
[00:40] <bryceh> well hold on, my experience has been it's kinda iffy
[00:40] <bryceh> I still get those errors.  Maybe it makes them less frequent though
[00:40] <robru> gonna give it a shot
[00:40] <robru> also gonna try and log back into gnome-shell and see what it does.
[00:41] <bryceh> I ended up just learning to use apport-retrace.  It gives more control over the stack trace generation that way, and lets you even get into gdb to poke around, so it's a lot more powerful
[00:41] <robru> yeah
[00:42] <robru> y
[00:45] <robru> ok, gnome-shell seems to be working now. not sure what happened there before.
[00:47] <robru> thanks bryceh
[00:49] <bryceh> heh
[00:50] <bryceh> robru, did you do an apt update / dist-upgrade between it being failly and working?
[00:50] <robru> bryceh, yeah.
[00:50] <bryceh> ah
[00:50] <robru> bryceh, I guess the first dist-upgrade I did that caused the problem didn't get everything? some kind of inconsistent state / bad timing
[00:50] <robru> not really sure.
[00:51] <bryceh> possibly, or could be a legitimate bug that someone slipped a fix in for
[00:51] <bryceh> that happens quite often when running the devel version pre-feature-freeze
[00:52] <bryceh> you can review your /var/log/dpkg.log to see what got updated if you're curious
[00:53]  * bryceh wanders off to debug a monitor/kvm problem...
[00:53] <robru> Yeah, gnome-shell's in there.
[00:53] <robru> bryceh, no worries, thanks again.
[03:12] <jasoncwarner_> hey robert_ancell wondering if you think you might have some time in the next few days/next week to help seb out a bit...he has quite a bit on his plate and was hoping you might have a bit of slack to help him here or there.
[03:12] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, what does he need help with?
[03:37] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, i think jasoncwarner_ was referring to the gnome update
[03:37] <kenvandine> he is also helping port apps using libindicate to libmessagingmenu
[03:37] <kenvandine> and helping to land that
[03:37] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, yeah, he confirmed that over pm
[03:37] <kenvandine> ok
[03:38] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, are there bugs on the libindicate stuff?
[03:38] <kenvandine> no :)
[03:38] <robert_ancell> so just rdepends basically?
[03:38] <kenvandine> he and larsu just started that stuff today
[03:38] <robert_ancell> ok
[03:38] <kenvandine> indicator-messages with libmessagingmenu is in the ubuntu-desktop PPA now
[03:38] <kenvandine> not built yet
[03:40] <kenvandine> ftbfs now
[03:40] <kenvandine> urgh
[03:40] <desrt> they depend on the new gtk...
[03:40] <desrt> which is still in -propose, i think
[03:40] <desrt> do the builders know about that?
[03:40] <kenvandine> desrt, i fixed that... i set the PPA to use proposed
[03:40] <kenvandine> now they ftbfs
[03:59] <desrt> sucks :(
[03:59] <desrt> got a log?
[04:24] <robert_ancell> desrt, you back
[04:24] <robert_ancell> ?
[04:24] <desrt> back from what?
[04:24] <robert_ancell> desrt, I think you headed out earlier
[04:24] <desrt> yes.  that's true.
[04:24] <desrt> i am back.
[04:25] <robert_ancell> desrt, anyway, could I get you to have a quick look at gcalctool master - it crashes on startup (inside a gtk_widget_show) and it seems to be related to the radio buttons in the app menu (i.e. disabling them makes it work). The backtrace is deep inside GTK+...
[04:27] <desrt> it doesn't crash for me
[04:27] <robert_ancell> desrt, are you running Ubuntu? I was thinking it might be a dbus menu issue
[04:27] <desrt> and the appmenu is working
[04:27] <robert_ancell> and Unity?
[04:27] <desrt> no
[04:27] <desrt> the window is very small though
[04:27] <robert_ancell> ok, so at least the release I made is only borked for Ubuntu
[04:27] <desrt> oh
[04:27] <desrt> i should make install :)
[04:27] <robert_ancell> heh
[04:28] <desrt> let me try in unity
[04:29] <desrt> no crash
[04:29] <robert_ancell> desrt, 12.10?
[04:29] <desrt> yes
[04:29] <robert_ancell> weirdnes
[04:29] <robert_ancell> weirdness
[04:30] <robert_ancell> desrt, updated?
[04:30] <desrt> let me do an entire unity session
[04:30] <desrt> i just did unity --replace
[04:31] <desrt> still working totally fine
[04:31] <robert_ancell> hmm, do I just release it and assume my box is weird?
[04:31] <desrt> i don't think so :)
[04:31] <desrt> oh!
[04:31] <desrt> now i see a segfault
[04:31] <desrt> i was running it under jhbuild
[04:32] <desrt> so i was getting upstream gtk
[04:32] <desrt> this looks highly fascinating
[04:33] <robert_ancell> I'm glad you find it so
[04:33] <desrt> i blame larsu :)
[04:40] <desrt> i think i understand the issue
[04:41] <desrt> there's at least a gtk bug here...
[04:44] <desrt> yup.  plain as day at this point.
[04:44] <desrt> gtk bug
[04:46] <robert_ancell> desrt, upstream or ubuntu?
[04:47] <desrt> upstream, unfortunately
[04:47] <robert_ancell> brb
[04:56] <desrt> robert_ancell: okay.  i pushed a fix to gtk
[04:56] <desrt> robert_ancell: please test
[04:56] <desrt> other than that, i think gcalctool is fine
[04:56] <desrt> thanks for the poke
[04:57] <robert_ancell> desrt, thank you. I was struggling to debug it and figured you'd have some idea :)
[04:57] <desrt> ya
[04:57] <desrt> larsu and i just turned over a huge amount of code in this area
[04:57] <desrt> please shout again if you see more problems
[05:31] <robert_ancell> desrt, fix confirmed
[07:35] <pitti> seb128: bonjour, ça va?
[07:36] <seb128> hey desktopers
[07:36] <seb128> pitti, hey, ca va bien! und dir?
[07:38] <pitti> seb128: un peu fatigué, je n'ai pas dormi bien
[07:39] <seb128> pitti, il faut trop chaud ?
[07:39] <pitti> yeah, that and the thunderstorm
[07:39] <pitti> we had > 30 degrees over the day, and then got clouds in the evening so it didn't cool down
[07:40] <pitti> seb128: btw, bonnes nouvelles: I dropped gksu from apport in trunk
[07:40] <pitti> so it's only update-notifier, and that doesn't sound too hard really
[07:40] <seb128> ah, nice for the cool down
[07:40] <seb128> pitti, @gksu: great, finally! ;-)
[07:41] <pitti> ./src/gdu.c:      invoke_with_gksu(cmd, "/usr/share/applications/gnome-app-install.desktop", FALSE);
[07:41] <pitti> mvo: ^ that doesn't seem too relevant any more?
[07:42] <pitti> oh, there's some ./data/backend_helper.py which uses it, too
[07:42] <pitti> and then of coruse invoking apport for system crashes, but that sounds pkexec-able
[08:08] <mvo> pitti: yeah, that is not relevant anymore, this was used for addon-cds for edubuntu a long time ago
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> i'm feeling a renewed hatred towards flash
[10:09] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: oh really? renewed? not like this long sustained hatred?
[10:09] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[10:30] <pitti> hey jasoncwarner_, how are you?
[10:32] <jasoncwarner_> hey pitti! good, thanks. You?
[10:32] <jasoncwarner_> pitti: just dealing with the normal FF stuff :) means getting people to nail down what is "important" etc ;)
[10:32] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: ça va bien, merci!
[10:33] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: I really enjoyed my holidays in the last two weeks
[10:33] <pitti> https://www.piware.de/fotos/Bodensee-Aug12/
[10:58] <jasoncwarner_> thanks, pitti , I'll check those out!
[12:09] <ricotz> seb128, hi :), maybe you have a moment for http://paste.debian.net/plain/185052
[12:10] <seb128> ricotz, hey, I can sponsor that, thanks
[12:10] <ricotz> seb128, thanks
[12:12] <desrt> seb128: hey
[12:12] <desrt> seb128: i pushed a pretty important fix to gtk last night
[12:12] <desrt> seb128: you're gonna want to pick that up
[12:12] <seb128> desrt, hey, how are you?
[12:12] <desrt> sleepy :)
[12:12]  * Sweetshark is proud of: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.7/+bug/1017125/+attachment/3271642/+files/lp1017125.cxx proving a bug in boost 1.49 ...
[12:13] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1017125 in boost1.49 "boost::unordered_multimap<>::erase(iterator, iterator) broken on quantal" [High,Confirmed]
[12:13] <seb128> desrt, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/3.5.12-0ubuntu3
[12:13] <seb128> desrt, that one?
[12:13] <ricotz> desrt, g-o-a are working ;)
[12:13] <desrt> seb128: sounds right :)
[12:13] <desrt> robert_ancell++
[13:00] <kenvandine> seb128, good morning
[13:01] <seb128> kenvandine, hey, how are you?
[13:01] <kenvandine> good, and you?
[13:02] <kenvandine> seb128, last night i noticed indicator-messages was dep wait so i enabled proposed in the PPA
[13:02] <kenvandine> but then i-m ftbfs
[13:02] <kenvandine> i didn't look at why, it was 1am :)
[13:02] <seb128> kenvandine, right, I'm looking at that next, seems like a missing build-depends on gtk-doc-tools
[13:02] <kenvandine> cool
[13:03] <kenvandine> so i didn't even start porting gwibber to lmm :)
[13:03] <kenvandine> i keep using lmm as shorthand for libmessagingmenu
[13:03] <kenvandine> but when i see it i think -lm
[13:03] <kenvandine> :)
[13:04] <seb128> hehe
[13:06] <seb128> kenvandine, btw https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/bamf/webapps/+merge/120432 failed to merge on
[13:06] <seb128> "No package 'libunity_webapps-0.2' found"
[13:06] <seb128> kenvandine, so I just added the Build-Depends to the packaging trunk, let's see if that makes the merge happy
[13:06] <kenvandine> thx
[13:06] <kenvandine> i was wondering where to fix that
[13:06] <kenvandine> looking at the log it was pulling lp:ubuntu/bamf
[13:07] <kenvandine> but ti seemed wrong to add it there
[13:07] <kenvandine> s/ti/it
[13:07] <seb128> kenvandine, yeah, not clean way, I just do a "prepare landing of next version" as UNRELEASED
[13:08] <kenvandine> ok
[13:08] <kenvandine> seb128, anything we need to do to trigger auto merge?
[13:09] <seb128> kenvandine, wdym automerge?
[13:10] <kenvandine> the auto landing stuff
[13:10] <kenvandine> whatever robot is out there moving code around :)
[13:10] <seb128> kenvandine, oh, talk to mmrazik or didrocks
[13:11] <seb128> it's trivial to add stuff to the setup, didrocks just did it for the video lens friday I think
[13:11] <kenvandine> i was talking about landing bamf
[13:11] <kenvandine> i assume it will retry automatically
[13:12] <desrt> BAMF!
[13:12] <kenvandine> !BAMF
[13:12] <ubot2`> Factoid 'BAMF' not found
[13:12] <kenvandine> haha
[13:12] <desrt> ubot2 joins in the action
[13:13] <seb128> kenvandine, oh, you mean to retry the merge? sorry I was not following you
[13:14] <seb128> kenvandine, the merge robot put the merge request to "Needs Review" when merging fails, so just putting back to "Approved" makes it retry
[13:14] <kenvandine> Yeah... sorry i often fail to make sense before my 3rd cup of coffee :)
[13:14] <kenvandine> cool
[13:15] <seb128> kenvandine, I've promoted libunity-webapps as well, the MIR was approved
[13:15] <kenvandine> cool
[13:15] <seb128> mterry, hey
[13:15] <mterry> seb128, hello!
[13:15] <seb128> mterry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-dummy/+bug/949600 ... is that considered ACKed from a MIR side?
[13:15] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 949600 in xserver-xorg-video-dummy "[MIR] xserver-xorg-video-dummy" [Undecided,New]
[13:16] <seb128> mterry, doko wrote in comment #1 "the package itself looks ok for main."
[13:16] <kenvandine> seb128, sigh... the unity branch failed to auto merge because no commit message
[13:16]  * kenvandine fixes
[13:16] <seb128> mterry, xorg-gtest wants xserver-xorg-video-dummy to work (can't run the ido test suite without that)
[13:17] <seb128> kenvandine, yeah, classic mistake, that's an annoying "feature" of the merger...
[13:17] <xclaesse> kenvandine, could you please rebuild MC without --enable-libaccounts-sso please? (sorry if it's not you who maintain that package)
[13:17] <xclaesse> kenvandine, that's the libaccounts plugin for maemo, not the one for new UOA
[13:17] <kenvandine> xclaesse, i do maintain it...
[13:17] <kenvandine> oh!
[13:17] <kenvandine> hehe
[13:17] <kenvandine> that's confusing :)
[13:17] <xclaesse> the UOA MC plugin is in empathy source
[13:18] <xclaesse> provided by mcp-account-manager-uoa binary package
[13:18] <mterry> seb128, I had assigned back to doko for double-confirmed approval after RAOF's comment.  But I agree that a plain reading of doko's comment suggests it's already approved.  Let me mark it as such
[13:18] <seb128> mterry, thanks, I pinged doko this morning but he hasn't replied in 5 hours and I'm sort of wanting to not block on him
[13:19] <xclaesse> kenvandine, yeah that's confusing, tbh the maemo stuff should be dropped or at least kept out of MC's tree
[13:21] <kenvandine> xclaesse, done
[13:22] <xclaesse> kenvandine, cool thanks :)
[13:48] <mterry> seb128, I noticed that nautilus got updated?
[13:48] <seb128> mterry, yes, is there an issue with that?
[13:48] <mterry> seb128, no, I just thought the plan of record was staying back
[13:48] <seb128> mterry, oh, by the time we had the discussion we were already on 3.5.3
[13:48] <seb128> mterry, they started the cycle like a normal cycle
[13:49] <seb128> then changed the design like crazy and we were already on 3.5
[13:49] <mterry> seb128, sure, but I thought we decided to do 3.5.3.really.3.4 or something
[13:49] <seb128> mterry, the plan of record is to have nautilus3.4 uploaded a different source
[13:49] <mterry> ah, a different source
[13:49] <mterry> OK
[13:49] <seb128> mterry, want to do it btw? or maybe robru? ;-)
[13:49] <mterry> I remember that now
[13:49] <Sweetshark> hmmm, is there a way to make quantal not suck in a virtualbox? Im getting a fat repaint error galore ...
[13:50] <seb128> Sweetshark, install gnome-session-fallback and log into a gnome classic session?
[13:50] <Sweetshark> seb128: k, but that would kinda defeat testing lomenubar, right? ;)
[13:51] <mterry> seb128, I would if I finish my various stuff before FF
[13:51] <mterry> Can't be too difficult
[13:51] <seb128> Sweetshark, you can add indicator-applet-appmenu to your gnome-panel
[13:53] <seb128> kenvandine, do you have a gwibber upload planned for soon?
[13:53] <Streamstormer> Sweetshark: Is there a bug for that problem because i have the same problem?
[13:53] <seb128> kenvandine, ricots pointed to http://paste.debian.net/plain/185052
[13:54] <Sweetshark> Streamstormer: havnt checked yet.
[13:54] <seb128> Streamstormer, Sweetshark: do you have 3d enabled in your vm?
[13:54] <seb128> if not you probably fallback displaying unity-3d through llvmpipe which is known to be slow and buggy
[13:54] <seb128> that's going to be worked but not likely before ff
[13:55] <mterry> seb128, another small package likely to come through NEW today
[13:55] <Sweetshark> seb128: no 2d or 3d acceleration activate yet.
[13:55] <seb128> mterry, ok, give me a ping once it's uploaded
[13:56] <Streamstormer> Sweetshark: checking
[13:56] <Sweetshark> seb128: I considered doing a demo video -- in which case I obviously want all the unity awesomeness.
[13:56] <seb128> Sweetshark, no luck for you in a vm atm, unity requires working 3d
[13:56] <seb128> or enable 3d in virtualbox
[13:57] <kenvandine> seb128, ricotz: uploaded, thanks!
[13:57] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[13:57] <pitti> the fix for llvm has been merged in compiz upstream, BTW
[13:57] <Sweetshark> seb128: trying 3d
[13:57] <pitti> until then, -vm vmware provides somethign which is barely usable to start a program
[13:57] <davmor2> kenvandine: Hey dude where would the sip accounts be now, I was using empathy in Q to access the confline but there is no sip option anymore :(
[13:58] <pitti> the default cirrus and -vga std doesn't work
[13:58] <seb128> pitti, "fix", not so much
[13:58] <kenvandine> davmor2, good times
[13:58] <kenvandine> account-plugin-sip
[13:58] <kenvandine> install that package
[13:58] <seb128> pitti, it's still too slow to be usable, they have plan to turn off effects in vms but that's on the unity side and not done yet
[13:58] <pitti> seb128: c'est ne pas bug 1021104?
[13:58] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1021104 in compiz "Severe damage artefacts and flickering when using LLVMpipe" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021104
[13:58] <Streamstormer> Sweetshark: Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe but the problem is there since the last xserver update
[13:58] <pitti> seb128: ah, merci
[13:58] <kenvandine> davmor2, i wonder if it will migrate your account for you...
[13:59] <Streamstormer> lunch
[13:59] <kenvandine> since you started without that plugin installed
[13:59] <seb128> pitti, that will improve things but I doubt it will be enough to be "good", but let's see ;-)
[13:59] <seb128> pitti, de rien
[13:59] <Sweetshark> seb128: enabling 3d does improve much here it seems
[13:59] <seb128> Sweetshark, great
[13:59] <pitti> seb128: I still doubt it will make the armhf live images any useful, right
[13:59] <davmor2> kenvandine: it broke all the others due to the fact that they all needed to authenticate
[13:59] <seb128> pitti, we would need to have llvmpipe working on arm to start with :-(
[13:59] <kenvandine> right
[13:59] <kenvandine> davmor2, but they worked after authenticating?
[13:59] <pitti> seb128: err, it doesn't?
[13:59] <seb128> pitti, there are ongoing discussions on the topic, I can fwd you the emails if you want
[14:00] <pitti> seb128: it seems removing -2d was even more premature then *grumpf*
[14:00] <davmor2> kenvandine: I removed them all and set it all up afresh then it was fine
[14:00] <pitti> seb128: that's ok, thanks
[14:00] <seb128> pitti, no, llvmpipe is not enabled on arm atm and they are not sure they can, it's strongly using SSE instruction set
[14:00] <pitti> seb128: I'm frustrated either way :)
[14:00] <kenvandine> davmor2, oh... you shouldn't have done that :)
[14:00] <kenvandine> s/have/have needed/
[14:01] <davmor2> kenvandine: I'll reboot to be sure but there doesn't seem to be an icon for the sip account
[14:01] <Sweetshark> seb128: yikes, no -- it does _not_ improve much here. Why do I always fsck up my negations?
[14:01] <seb128> pitti, well, it's not that easy, we didn't remove 2d to remove 2d, nobodo had the few weeks of engineering time to devote to port the 2d stack to gsettings and co
[14:01] <seb128> Sweetshark, :-(
[14:01] <kenvandine> davmor2, you're looking in online accounts right?
[14:01] <seb128> pitti, so choices were to block GNOME and unity3d another cycle or drop 2d
[14:01] <davmor2> kenvandine: indeed,  I get a black rectangle with a no entry sign
[14:01] <seb128> pitti, rock ... us ... hard place ...
[14:02] <pitti> well, PS could have chosen to drop 3D and keep only 2D; but anyway, we've been through this
[14:02]  * davmor2 lends seb128 and pitti some tnt and blasting caps, that should get you through the rock hope it helps ;)
[14:02] <pitti> but if we would employ rickspencer3's "roll back regressions" appraoch, it woudl have to come back
[14:02] <seb128> pitti, yeah, unity is only part of the issue though, totem, cheese, gnome-control-center, gnome-settings-daemon use clutter
[14:02] <pitti> because the current unity-2d was still miles better than what we have now
[14:03] <kenvandine> davmor2, ok, that one is missing an icon
[14:03] <seb128> pitti, that's an increasing trend, gtk4 will be GL only as will be Qt5
[14:03] <davmor2> kenvandine: and nope there is no sip account showing up
[14:03]  * kenvandine suspected so
[14:03] <kenvandine> i think we need the migration code to automatically install plugins for needed accounts
[14:04] <seb128> pitti, you can have a working unity-2d on arm but e.g totem video playing wouldn't work, so still not an acceptable user experience for a desktop
[14:04] <kenvandine> xclaesse, ^^
[14:04] <Sweetshark> anyway, unitymenus already looks rather nice and sessioninstaller integration also works like a charm. I can install libreoffice-templates (out of universe) with one click inside the LibreOffice dialog ....
[14:05] <davmor2> kenvandine: can you add the need to pull in the accounts package it the telepathy package is installed?  ie install telepathy-sofia-sip depends on account-plugin-sip
[14:05] <kenvandine> that's a good idea
[14:09] <robru> goooooooooooooood morning desktoppers!
[14:10] <Sweetshark> seb128: oh, great. this also prevents taking demo videos as recordmydesktop is unhappy with composition
[14:10] <xclaesse> kenvandine, what API should be used to install plugins?
[14:10] <seb128> Sweetshark, :-(
[14:10] <xclaesse> kenvandine, package-kit ?
[14:10] <davmor2> kenvandine: I can confirm that adding my sip account and emapthy audio calls work again now woohoo!
[14:12] <kenvandine> woot
[14:12] <kenvandine> xclaesse, the packagekit api should work
[14:13] <cyphermox> hey robru
[14:13] <robru> hi cyphermox
[14:13] <kenvandine> seb128, can you confirm?
[14:14] <ricotz> seb128, thanks
[14:14] <ricotz> kenvandine, thanks
[14:17] <seb128> kenvandine, it should yes
[14:17] <cyphermox> seb128: pour -sync, il faut le faire builder pour gtk2 et gtk3?
[14:17] <kenvandine> xclaesse, so that should work
[14:18] <seb128> cyphermox, hey, no, ido is only built for gtk3, the is no gtkswitch in gtk2 and -sync uses it
[14:18] <cyphermox> gotcha.
[14:18] <xclaesse> kenvandine, ok, commented on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682440
[14:18] <ubot2`> Gnome bug 682440 in UOA "What if account plugin is not installed when doing UOA migration" [Normal,New]
[14:19] <kenvandine> xclaesse, thanks!
[14:36] <Streamstormer> seb128, Sweetshark: the workaround in bug 1021104 is solving my problem Yeah :)
[14:36] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1021104 in compiz "Severe damage artefacts and flickering when using LLVMpipe" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021104
[14:36] <davmor2> kenvandine: because I like you https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1040091
[14:36] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1040091 in empathy "The sip account is missing an icon" [Undecided,New]
[14:36] <kenvandine> thx!
[15:01] <mterry> seb128, ted named another beauty: lightdm-remote-session-uccsconfigure is in NEW
[15:01] <seb128> mterry, didn't we tell you that ted is not allowed to pick names?
[15:01] <seb128> kenvandine made it clear before ;-)
[15:01] <mterry> seb128, this one is at least over-verbose
[15:02] <kenvandine> mterry, opposite problem we've had in the past
[15:02] <kenvandine> but tedg is still not allowed to name packages
[15:02] <kenvandine> :-D
[15:15] <seb128> mterry, tedg: what is /usr/share/lightdm/remote-sessions/uccsconfigure.desktop used for? does it populate the list of sessions in the greeter or something?
[15:15] <tedg> seb128, Not the list of sessions, but the list of remote sessions.
[15:16] <tedg> seb128, It's new API that robert_ancell is adding.
[15:16] <tedg> seb128, So that it doesn't clutter the list of normal sessions.
[15:16] <mterry> tedg, we're talking after you login with your email, right?
[15:16] <mterry> tedg, and a list of remote sessions appears
[15:16] <seb128> tedg, where does it show?
[15:16] <seb128> tedg, worded differently
[15:16] <seb128> Name=UCCS Configure
[15:16] <seb128> Comment=Setup a UCCS Account
[15:17] <seb128> those are not translatable, do they need to be?
[15:17] <tedg> mterry, Well, it wouldn't ever show that list to the user, but we'd validate the list of servers against it.  i.e. if you don't have a citrix client installed it would say that.
[15:17] <tedg> seb128, It doesn't actually show to the user.
[15:17] <mterry> seb128, I didn't think so
[15:17] <mterry> seb128, those labels come from the admin uccs page I think
[15:18] <mterry> seb128, (the user-visible labels)
[15:18] <seb128> ok ... so why do we need a Name and Comment in there?
[15:24] <mterry> seb128, self-commenting code?
[15:24] <seb128> mterry, I'm just trying to make sure that you americans don't try to enforce your language on us again :p
[15:24] <seb128> I want to know why we have strings if they are not meant to be shown ;-)
[15:25] <seb128> mterry, tedg: anyway, looks good, NEWed
[15:25] <mterry> seb128, awesome.  USA! USA! USA!
[15:27] <seb128> mterry, yeah yeah, next UDS is in Europe, we will teach you to speak another language ;-)
[15:27] <seb128> though North countries are bad for that, they all speak english
[15:27] <tedg> seb128, I put them in because I'm not sure which keyfile loader robert is using, I think the GLib desktop one will reject if those fields aren't there because they're mandatory.
[15:27] <mterry> seb128, the language of love: Hearts
[15:27] <seb128> hehe
[15:28] <seb128> tedg, ok, makes sense
[15:28] <mterry> tedg, Name is, I doubt Comment is
[15:28] <mterry> tedg, next time just put "USA #1" in the Name
[15:29] <tedg> mterry, I think that's implied ;-)
[15:34] <jbicha> seb128: could I bug you to take a look at ubuntu-default-settings in the new queue?
[15:34] <jbicha> or do you know someone else that could review it?
[15:34] <ogra_> seb128, yo .. i had a chat about desktop-q-upstart-session-requirements and foundations-q-xdg-runtime-dir .. the latter will happen, the former wont for quantal
[15:36] <ogra_> (you asked about both in the last release meetings)
[15:39] <seb128> jbicha, not this week, I've a week worth of work left and 1 day before ff
[15:40] <seb128> ogra_, oh, great, do we know when the xdg runtime dir support will land? ff is tomorrow, it's blocked work on our side, we will likely need a ffe...
[15:40] <ogra_> the spec is scheduled for beta1
[15:40] <ogra_> so some time before i would suspect
[15:41] <ogra_> i doubt it will make FF
[15:41] <ogra_> but ask the implementer for details ;)
[15:43] <seb128> ogra_, who is the implementer?
[15:43] <ogra_> steve i think
[15:43] <seb128> I somewhat doubt he's the one implementing it
[15:43] <seb128> not sure why :p
[15:43] <ogra_> well, he is the asigneed at least .. and he is the pam specialist ... which matches :)
[15:43] <seb128> but let me ask him
[15:44] <ogra_> (and both WIs are assigned to him)
[16:32] <kenvandine> mterry, i added another package on the MIR bug 1029549
[16:32] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1029549 in signon-plugin-oauth2 "[MIR] online-accounts and friends" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029549
[16:32] <kenvandine> can you take a look?
[16:51] <dobey> is there any chance at all for someone to get grilo updated to version 0.2.0 in debian and get it synced into ubuntu?
[16:51] <dobey> before tomorrow?
[16:53] <ogra_> why before tomorrow ... its not like FF is the end of the cycle or something
[16:53] <ogra_> its just more paperwork after that point
[16:54] <jbicha> desrt: are you getting this theme problem with Adwaita? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/682395
[16:56] <robru> jbicha, I was actually experiencing that quite a while ago, but I haven't seen it recently.
[17:20] <mterry> back, sorry kenvandine
[17:20]  * mterry slaps kenvandine's wrist for adding MIRs
[17:21]  * mterry reviews
[17:21] <kenvandine> :)
[17:21] <kenvandine> there might be another today, or at the latest tomorrow :)
[17:27] <mterry> kenvandine, minor nit, the text for GPL-3+ says 2 instead of 3 in one place
[17:28] <kenvandine> damn
[17:28]  * kenvandine fixes :)
[17:29] <kenvandine> i hate that file :)
[17:30] <kenvandine> mterry, fixed in vcs
[17:44]  * ogra_ sees http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/delivering-compiz-and-unity-on-the-next-wave-of-embedded-form-factors/ and humps smspillaz' leg 
[17:46] <kenvandine> ogra_, hahahaha
[17:46] <mterry> kenvandine, why does unity-lens-photo have a Breaks and Replaces on itself?
[17:47] <kenvandine> unity-lens-photo vs. unity-lens-photos
[17:47] <kenvandine> there was a unity-lens-photo in a couple PPAs
[17:47] <kenvandine> but this would break those
[17:47] <kenvandine> never in ubuntu though
[17:47] <mterry> ah
[17:47] <mterry> geeze
[17:47] <kenvandine> we don't want to screw the crazy PPA users :)
[17:48]  * mterry logs out to test it
[17:50] <mterry> kenvandine, also
[17:50] <mterry> kenvandine, rules can look like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1161242/
[17:50] <mterry> and then drop the python2 distutils from build-dep
[17:50]  * mterry shivs python2
[17:50] <kenvandine> ok
[17:50] <mterry> kenvandine, not a MIR blocker, just saying
[17:50] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:50] <kenvandine> i like keeping rules empty if possible :)
[17:51] <kenvandine> but good reason
[17:51] <mterry> kenvandine, convince the debhelper folks to include dh_python3 by default
[17:51] <mterry> Not sure why that's been so slow
[17:52] <mterry> ok, really logging out
[18:19] <tedg> mterry, I think this is all the packages, right?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thin-client-config-agent/+bug/1040221
[18:19] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1040221 in unity-greeter "FFe request: Provide remote login options" [Undecided,New]
[18:20] <mterry> tedg, and possibly nm-applet UI changes, but that would likely be a UIFe.  Still part of this bundle though
[18:21] <tedg> mterry, Yeah, I figured that the "feature" was pulling nm-applet in and the changes were UIF related.
[18:21] <tedg> Which is part of the greeter.
[18:21] <mterry> tedg, no, nm-applet needs some additional changes to handle running in a low-permissions environment
[18:21] <mterry> more gracefully
[18:21] <mterry> it runs now
[18:21] <mterry> but options are shown that shouldn't be/don't work
[18:22] <tedg> Yes, sure.
[18:22] <tedg> I'll add it.
[18:22] <tedg> Ah, network-manager-gnome.
[18:23] <tedg> Someone should name these packages something shorter!
[18:23] <tedg> ;-)
[18:23] <mterry> :)
[18:23] <kenvandine> hehe
[18:24] <dobey> nmgnome.deb
[18:25] <dobey> we can use 8.3 names like suse!
[18:25] <dobey> xscrnsgl.rpm is the best
[18:37] <ricotz> are there some known build problems caused by  g-ir-scanner freezes on i386 while introspecting certain libs?
[18:37] <ricotz> seb128, ^
[18:38] <ricotz> desrt, might be a glib <> kernel problem again? ^
[18:43] <ricotz> i guess this problem is specific to the introspection of clutter-gst
[18:53] <seb128> ricotz, not seen any of those no
[18:59] <ricotz> seb128, ok, seems weird since it worked in the past, so maybe the g-i, glib, clutter update triggered it
[19:33] <robru> I'm not sure when this landed, but I've just noticed that Nautilus is hiding it's titlebar when maximized in gnome-shell, while no other apps are. I like it, but I don't like the inconsistency...
[19:41] <seb128> robru, that's a new patern of GNOME3 apps
[19:41] <seb128> robru, I guess gnome-contacts is doing it
[19:41] <seb128> robru, or gnome-documents
[19:41] <seb128> in unity we have that working consistently for all apps for a year :p
[19:42] <robru> well, it seems like it would be trivial to hide maximized titlebars in the wm (in fact for a while I do that in the Adwaita theme myself), I'm not sure why gnome devs would bother coding their apps one by one to do this
[19:45] <seb128> robru, that's what unity does ;-)
[19:45] <seb128> robru, I think their idea is that it doesn't work well with apps have a menu
[19:45] <seb128> you get a menu along the top panel
[19:45] <seb128> and it's harder to aim it and looks weird
[20:20] <dobey> gah, why would --fail-missing complain about files in /usr/share/doc, after i've added a package.docs file and listed those files in it?!
[20:23] <jbicha> eog currently only does the disappearing titlebar with a plugin
[20:23] <seb128> dobey, because it's a dh_install thing so it uses .install files I think
[20:24] <seb128> jbicha, they still have a menu right?
[20:24] <jbicha> seb128: yeah for now
[20:24] <seb128> that would be why
[21:24] <mterry> seb128, btw, I can do a bit of work on nautilus3.4 while waiting for remote login to sort itself out
[21:24] <seb128> mterry, \o/
[21:25] <mterry> seb128, so we want a new source nautilus-3.4 that has 3.4 + relevant changes we've made since then.  Upload it, main it, and then change seeds?
[21:25] <seb128> mterry, yes
[21:25] <mterry> k
[21:26] <seb128> mterry, the main issue is going to do how to handle binaries
[21:26] <seb128> mterry, I think we can share libnautilus-extensions between versions
[21:26] <seb128> I don't think the api,abi changed this cycle
[21:26] <seb128> so we need to pick one of the 2 sources building those binaries only
[21:26] <seb128> I guess 3.6 to avoid having to go back in versions
[21:26] <mterry> Which binaries?
[21:27] <seb128> libnautilus-extensions1 and libnautilus-extension-dev
[21:27] <seb128> the gir probably as well
[21:27] <mterry> Because we don't want to go change all rdepends, k
[21:27] <seb128> well, rather because we can't build the same binaries from 2 sources
[21:28] <seb128> so my guess is that nautilus3.4 should only have one binary nautilus3.4
[21:28] <mterry> Well, I imagined we could add -3.4 as needed, but yeah, I guess a lot of packages not just seeds references nautilus binaries
[21:29] <seb128> well,if the lib didn't change we can just use the 3.6 version
[21:29]  * mterry wonders how many things rdepend on 'nautilus'
[21:29] <seb128> we can probably also merge the -data in the main binary
[21:29] <seb128> well, we can provides: nautilus
[21:29] <seb128> I doubt many things use a versionned depends on nautilus
[21:30] <mterry> some do
[21:30] <mterry> gnome-core and nautilus-share so far
[21:31] <mterry> gnome-sushi
[21:31] <mterry> I'll stop there, but it looks like we may have a bit of work in that regard
[21:31] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.quantal/rdepends/nautilus/nautilus
[21:32] <seb128> mterry, hum, do you think we on a good path?
[21:32] <mterry> That doesn't show versioning though
[21:32] <seb128> right
[21:32] <mterry> seb128, not clear...  we didn't want to just do 3.5.really.3.4 because that would be unfair to GNOME-vanilla people?
[21:33] <seb128> that and I can see why the new nautilus would please some users
[21:33] <seb128> but at the same time we could keep it in the GNOME3 ppa
[21:33] <kenvandine> seb128, was i supposed to be upload the package for the video lens too? or just doing the tarball
[21:33]  * kenvandine has packages prepared now :)
[21:33] <seb128> kenvandine, oh,I saw you did upload the video lens update?
[21:34] <kenvandine> no
[21:34] <seb128> or was it the photo lens?
[21:34] <seb128> too many lenses :p
[21:34] <kenvandine> photo lens
[21:34] <kenvandine> hehe
[21:34] <mterry> seb128, it seems like we have not prepared ourselves very well for parallel nautiluses
[21:34] <seb128> oh sorry
[21:34] <seb128> kenvandine, yes, please do it
[21:34] <seb128> mterry, no, and I don't like much having 2 nautilus versions
[21:34]  * mterry looks back at what's needed to fix 3.6 for us
[21:35] <seb128> mterry, it's mostly menus, hud integration
[21:35] <seb128> mterry, I've the feeling at this point we should just do the 3.5.is.3.4 and put the new one in a ppa
[21:35] <seb128> the ppas are not end of the world
[21:36] <seb128> and we are talking about staying one cycle behind GNOME it's early application of the logic
[21:36] <mterry> seb128, yeah
[21:36] <seb128> which we do with gsd and gcc as well
[21:36] <seb128> mterry, so yeah, let's do that?
[21:36] <jbicha> or we could just delay the release date by a couple weeks ;)
[21:37] <seb128> jbicha, that would not solve the issue
[21:37] <seb128> jbicha, what difference would it make?
[21:37] <seb128> we already release like a month after GNOME
[21:37] <jbicha> you really need 6 months delay to ship GNOME?
[21:37] <seb128> yes
[21:38] <seb128> we need to be able to discuss the cycle at UDS
[21:38] <seb128> and we can't with unplanned redesign and transition coming mid cycle from nowhere
[21:38] <seb128> same story with gstreamer1.0
[21:38] <seb128> or with the ibus keyboard handling
[21:40] <jbicha> staying one cycle behind gnome is just going to further the exodus of gnome devs to fedora & other os'es
[21:40] <seb128> that's life
[21:41] <seb128> mterry, btw for the nautilus rdepends
[21:41] <seb128> grep-dctrl -s Package,Depends -F Depends nautilus /var/lib/apt/lists/*archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_quantal_main_binary-*_Packages
[21:41] <seb128> mterry, you can main->* as well
[21:42] <seb128> jbicha, it's not like devs would be happy to have a non working system to work on
[21:42] <mterry> neat
[21:42] <jbicha> I guess Fedora devs manage to be happy ;)
[21:43] <seb128> jbicha, I see some regularly complaining about their broken installs ;-)
[21:43] <kenvandine> seb128, we have a problem
[21:43] <seb128> including some who reinstalled recently because some updated broke their boot loader for good
[21:43] <seb128> kenvandine, :-(
[21:43] <kenvandine> unity-lens-video has new depends
[21:43] <kenvandine> that are in universe
[21:43] <seb128> kenvandine, come on...
[21:43] <seb128> kenvandine, like we didn't have enough on our list
[21:43] <seb128> kenvandine, which ones?
[21:44] <kenvandine> gir1.2-gstreamer-1.0 and gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-1.0
[21:44] <jbicha> ooh
[21:44] <seb128> kenvandine, lol
[21:44] <seb128> kenvandine, not going to happen
[21:45] <kenvandine> yeah, so i am not uploading this :)
[21:46] <mterry> seb128, OK re: nautilus.  I can do a .really. version tomorrow
[21:46] <seb128> mterry, thanks
[21:48] <mterry> I tend to agree with you seb128 about being conservative on versions.  But dropping GNOME's special-upstream status would definitely be a bit of a social change
[21:49] <seb128> it's not like an unilateral change
[21:49] <seb128> I've spoken to number of GNOME people at GUADEC about that
[21:50] <seb128> and I had repeated online discussion where I told them that the way they are doing thing atm is incompatible with how distros work for most
[21:50] <seb128> like the gstreamer1 transition
[21:50] <mterry> seb128, not the GNOME OS!  :)
[21:50] <seb128> they say they don't care about non GNOME components, it's a distro problem
[21:51] <seb128> like they don't have a music player, but realistically they can't ignore users need one
[21:51] <seb128> mterry, yeah, I'm waiting for them to get there, I'm sure they will understand what we mean on the way :p
[21:51] <kenvandine> seb128, does anything in gnome 3.6 depend on gstreamer 1.0?
[21:52] <seb128> totem
[21:52] <seb128> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/PortToGstreamer1
[21:52] <seb128> in fact
[21:53] <kenvandine> so are we going to get it in main for totem?
[21:55] <davidcalle> kenvandine, I'm checking what are these new videos lens dependencies for and apparently it's to get specific metadata for Previews fields, nothing critical for it's future, there are other ways to get most of it.
[21:55] <seb128> kenvandine, no, we are going to stay on totem 3.4
[21:55] <kenvandine> ok
[21:56] <kenvandine> davidcalle, thx
[21:56] <seb128> kenvandine, if you want to sign up to maintain a dual gstreamer stack on the CD we can discuss it ;-)
[21:56] <kenvandine> davidcalle, btw i created tarballs and tagged releases for the lens and scope today :)
[21:56] <kenvandine> seb128, not me!
[21:56] <seb128> kenvandine, you are the one pushing for it :p
[21:56] <seb128> it's only fair!
[21:56] <seb128> ;-)
[21:56] <davidcalle> kenvandine, ty :)
[21:57] <seb128> kenvandine, davidcalle: joke aside, app are quite easy to change, the apis are quite similar, I think going back to gst0.10 should be easy work
[21:57] <kenvandine> seb128, i am not pushing for it :)
[21:57] <seb128> the hard part apparently are stuff using custom elements or codecs
[21:57] <kenvandine> i was just delivering the bad news :)
[21:59] <kenvandine> davidcalle, i guess don't bother
[21:59] <davidcalle> seb128, I agree
[21:59] <kenvandine> i just heard the pending branches need it even more
[22:02] <davidcalle> kenvandine, well I don't bother, I'm just waiting to see what happens with it, before rolling out a py3 port.
[22:03] <kenvandine> good times...
[22:38] <TheMuso> ~/quit