[11:55] <head_victim> Good evening all, looking around for quorum for the 1200 Membership board as well as seeing if the applicant Ravi Kumar is here tonight.
[12:01] <head_victim> Appears Ravi isn't here tonight
[12:02] <smartboyhw> Uh oh.
[12:02] <Destine> head_victim, any other applicants?
[12:02] <head_victim> Destine: not on the wiki page
[12:03] <smartboyhw> head_victim: Is there a law that said if the applicant is not present in the meeting for a certain number of times he will be banned from applying membership?
[12:03] <Destine> smartboyhw, not yet afaik.
[12:04] <smartboyhw> Hmm, you should set one, I think.
[12:04] <smartboyhw> Though I'm not even a member...
[12:04] <Destine> smartboyhw, good idea.
[12:04] <head_victim> smartboyhw: no, we generally just email them to see what the issue is and discuss it.
[12:05] <head_victim> We shouldn't be jumping to worst case scenarios without information. It's possible there's legitimate reasons.
[12:05] <smartboyhw> Hmm weird: head_victim says no and Destine says yes?
[12:05] <Pendulum> smartboyhw: we also take them off the list after a certain number of meetings. If they really want it, they have to re-add themselves. I don't see a reason to permanently ban anyone from applying
[12:06] <Pendulum> especially not based on not making a meeting
[12:06] <smartboyhw> OK, sorry, just a suggestion
[12:08] <Destine> smartboyhw, i said yes only under the condition that they are applying not for its own sake.
[12:08] <Destine> like just to play with us.
[12:08] <smartboyhw> Destine: OK.
[13:51] <smartboyhw> OK, QA meeting in 10 minutes, phillw is chair
[13:59] <smartboyhw> phillw: You here or what>
[13:59] <phillw> yes
[13:59] <phillw> 40 seconds?
[13:59] <smartboyhw> balloons: ping
[13:59] <smartboyhw> When balloons reply let's start:)
[14:00] <phillw> smartboyhw: please let the chair do his job?
[14:00] <smartboyhw> I know
[14:00] <balloons> lol
[14:01] <smartboyhw> Yay!
[14:01] <phillw> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[14:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 22 14:01:08 2012 UTC.  The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[14:01] <phillw> #topic attendance
[14:01] <phillw> can those present please asy o/
[14:01] <smartboyhw> o/
[14:01] <phillw> *say*
[14:02] <balloons> o/
[14:03] <phillw> #topic previous actions
[14:03] <phillw> balloons: have you actioned the one from 2 weeks ago?
[14:03] <phillw> ACTION: balloons edit http://qa.ubuntu.com/ to reflect correct time of weekly meeting (phillw, 14:57:28)
[14:05] <smartboyhw> phillw: I looked at qa.ubuntu.com, and I think balloons hasn't done it.
[14:05] <balloons> phillw, theres an open rt with ops to fix
[14:05] <balloons> i cannot do this myself
[14:05] <balloons> the reason is someone made it part of the theme
[14:05] <phillw> balloons: is this okay to carry over to be chased?
[14:05] <balloons> yea.. really :p
[14:05] <balloons> yes, carry
[14:06] <phillw> #action balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
[14:06] <meetingology> ACTION: balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
[14:06] <phillw> #topic Ubuntu updates
[14:07] <phillw> balloons: would be so kind as to give the current state of play?
[14:08] <balloons> sure
[14:11] <balloons> 12.04.1 for ubuntu testing is fairly complete
[14:11] <balloons> there's been a couple bugs targetted for inclusion should a respin need to occur, but that's not happened
[14:12] <balloons> on the flavors side, I know there has been some upgrade failure bugs :-)
[14:12] <balloons> ..
[14:12] <phillw> 12.04.1 is for a later topic, but thanks. how is Quantel going?
[14:13] <smartboyhw> #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds
[14:14] <balloons> ahh :-)
[14:14] <balloons> quantal has seen some new testing efforts with unity and compiz this week
[14:15] <balloons> that i think is going well, with some folks getting the first pass at llvmpipe and reporting bugs
[14:16] <balloons> I clarified my thoughts on cadence testing, and talked a bit about the future. arm daily builds are currently broken in quantal due to the unity3d move
[14:16] <balloons> in addition, nvidia driver is broken causing some havoc among the community depending on the driver to run quantal and unity3d
[14:17] <balloons> (since unity2d has been dropped)
[14:18] <balloons> discussions as to how this was handled will happen later, although, as I mentioned, I would like to see us change how we handle changes like this in the future
[14:19] <balloons> we don't have stability outside of milestones..
[14:19] <balloons> ..
[14:19] <phillw> thanks.
[14:19] <smartboyhw> :)
[14:20] <phillw> #topic discussion of test cases on iso tracker
[14:20] <phillw> I'll start this one...
[14:20] <phillw> The moving to 'old' of test cases without 'new' has caused issues
[14:21] <smartboyhw> phillw: That's not moving:(
[14:21] <phillw> This really does need to looked into.
[14:22] <phillw> balloons: smartboyhw maybe we should move to the last sub-topic?
[14:22] <balloons> phillw, I'm unsure what your saying here
[14:22] <smartboyhw> balloons: I agree
[14:23] <phillw> balloons: I went to carry out a test on behalf of a team and was met with a redundant test example, with no updated information available.
[14:23] <smartboyhw> phillw: I don't understand now, really
[14:23] <balloons> ?
[14:24] <balloons> precise sadly is using the old testcases
[14:24] <balloons> updating the links would take a bit.. and this is the last time it will be used. I let it go
[14:24] <phillw> it simply said that the test case was 'old'
[14:24] <phillw> smartboyhw: does help explain it for you?
[14:25] <balloons> phillw, I'm confused.. I guess move on and we'll come back
[14:25] <smartboyhw> phillw: I'm more confused with your lines 8 lines above.
[14:25] <phillw> #topic Updating Wiki
[14:26]  * njin arrived
[14:26] <phillw> balloons: with your permission, I'll put in an action for us both to catch our breath & have a concerted effort once again, to get it more new comer friendly?
[14:27] <phillw> welcome njin
[14:27] <njin> hallo everybody
[14:27] <balloons> phillw, the fight must go on :-0
[14:27] <smartboyhw> welcome njin
[14:27] <balloons> but i think we are in a good spot
[14:27] <balloons> i plan to maybe make a new video
[14:27] <smartboyhw> Actually I forgot to add a G+ and FB topic to the agenda...
[14:27] <phillw> #action phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki
[14:27] <meetingology> ACTION: phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki
[14:28] <phillw> smartboyhw: it can be disussed at AOB
[14:28] <smartboyhw> OK
[14:29] <phillw> I can skip 12.04.1 as we have already had an update.
[14:29] <smartboyhw> Wait, I saw Mythbuntu images not tested now
[14:29] <phillw> #topic Any Other business, over load of QA team
[14:29] <balloons> o/
[14:29] <phillw> smartboyhw: it's here
[14:30] <phillw> balloons: please take the floor
[14:30] <smartboyhw> phillw: ?
[14:30] <balloons> I also wanted to mention I ended some testing campaigns this week that had run there course
[14:30] <balloons> I'll post some followup feedback and thank yous
[14:31] <smartboyhw> OK
[14:31] <balloons> ..
[14:32] <phillw> balloons: just for discussion, I think QA attempted a 'bridge too far'.
[14:32] <smartboyhw> phillw: What bridge?:)
[14:32] <phillw> smartboyhw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden
[14:33] <smartboyhw> ?
[14:33] <smartboyhw> I'm not used to you guys showing Wiki links that I don't understand.
[14:34] <smartboyhw> What? balloons left?
[14:34] <smartboyhw> Oh, he's back:)
[14:34] <balloons> whoa... sorry
[14:35] <njin> balloons, your dog pllayng with the power cqable ?
[14:35] <balloons> lol..
[14:35] <balloons> me hitting ctrl + w
[14:35] <smartboyhw> njin: +1, LOL and :P
[14:35] <balloons> dog is napping
[14:35] <balloons> sorry phillw, ask again
[14:35] <phillw> balloons: I think that trying to do re-writes of testing cases, carrying on standard release testing, bringing in cadence testing, testing 12.04.1 was too much for our resources to cope with.
[14:36] <smartboyhw> phillw: 12.04.1 will end today
[14:36] <phillw> This has resulted in some frustrated testers.
[14:36] <smartboyhw> phillw: Who are the frustrated testers, BTW?:(
[14:36] <phillw> smartboyhw: I do not need to name people. nor would I ever.
[14:37] <smartboyhw> OK, but I thought it isn't too much, just 3 items after today or tmr
[14:38] <balloons> phillw, yes, alot has been asked of QA this cycle
[14:38] <njin> of course, this is Q cicle
[14:38] <phillw> balloons: I fear too much has. The last thing I want is for testers to say 'this is getting silly' and walk away.
[14:39] <smartboyhw> phillw: No.
[14:39] <phillw> I did promise that I would bring the matter up.
[14:40] <balloons> phillw, burnout potential will always be with us, no matter our workload
[14:40] <balloons> i would remind everyone to make sure they keep there own workloads sane :-)
[14:40] <phillw> balloons: it can be reduced by not asking them to do 3 tasks at one?
[14:40] <balloons> it's important to pause.
[14:40] <balloons> phillw, perhaps the issue at hand here is people feeling obligated to help on every bit of testing
[14:41] <smartboyhw> balloons: That's my case:)
[14:41] <phillw> balloons: they are dedicated people, and fell personally that they have failed if they do not 'keep up'. i do ask that this is borne in mind in future.
[14:41] <balloons> I would rather them see 3 things going on as an oppurtunity to chose one to invovle themselves
[14:41] <smartboyhw> balloons: I want to join all 3...:(
[14:41] <balloons> I know.. if I ask for 4 things at once, and one doesn't seemingly get attention...
[14:41] <balloons> the people will do it anyway
[14:41] <balloons> and I'm very grateful for that
[14:42] <balloons> but yes, that leads to burnout.. and I don't want that at all
[14:42] <phillw> balloons: indeed it is. we need to address the issue of 'where to concentrate our resources', they are not infinite.
[14:42] <balloons> ahh! the issue of what we test and what we work on is more concrete
[14:43] <smartboyhw> balloons and phillw: Does that mean we will only let people to select 1 or 2 tests to do?
[14:43] <balloons> that we can speak specifically too
[14:43] <balloons> smartboyhw, you are always free to test in whatever capacity you wish
[14:43] <balloons> as is everyone else..
[14:43] <balloons> i do try to space things out and allow for pauses, but it's not always possible
[14:44] <balloons> that said,, if there are feelings of frivilous testing going on. let's discuss specifically
[14:44] <phillw> balloons: yes, but we do need to rate which is 'please do this one, the others can wait to another day when you have slept and have time'
[14:44] <smartboyhw> OK thx balloons
[14:45] <smartboyhw> phillw: I think the standard one is better
[14:45] <phillw> balloons: if it not made possible, then the release cycle requires looking at.
[14:45] <balloons> phillw, I can try and communicate the 'please be kind to yourself!' mantra when I push things out
[14:45] <balloons> for instance, the unity testing overlapping 12.04.1
[14:45] <balloons> I didn't want it to happen, but it did. however, there are folks who don't iso test, who could go out and mess with it right away
[14:45] <phillw> that would be one... cadence overlapping milestones would be another
[14:45] <smartboyhw> Actually, 12.04.1 will be ending today, right??? It's 12.04.2 coming. Now I'm confused
[14:46] <balloons> if your isotesting 12.04.1... perhaps that's enough, and you can test unity if you wish later
[14:46] <njin> ell but I think that this is not the right time to evaluate things, too many works and really few people cause vacations
[14:46] <smartboyhw> balloons: I don't have more to test.
[14:46] <phillw> I still have no deffinitive answer to the testers. "What is the priority each week?"
[14:47] <phillw> maybe that could be done?
[14:47] <smartboyhw> phillw: It would be difficult
[14:47] <balloons> phillw, sure..
[14:47] <smartboyhw> 1st week: Unity 2nd week: Cadence 3rd week: Unity 4th Week: Milestone?
[14:47] <balloons> if we are working from deadlines, this week is 12.04.1
[14:48] <smartboyhw> Well, today IS the deadline for 12.04.1 testing, am I correct?:)
[14:48] <phillw> balloons: indeed, and a major problem in upgrade-manager has been found that will result in a 'no-go'
[14:48]  * balloons notes they are respinning the alts as we speak
[14:49] <smartboyhw> balloons: True
[14:49] <smartboyhw> Also Mythbuntu
[14:49] <phillw> 10.04.4 --> 12.04 is a massive fail. This should have been caught much earlier, but the testers were running around doing other testing.
[14:49] <balloons> phillw, well..
[14:50] <balloons> this is a big topic.. I'm not sure opening that can of worms would be productive
[14:50] <balloons> let's push forward to what you want to see in the future
[14:50] <smartboyhw> I think we should discuss it in #ubuntu-testing instead...
[14:51] <phillw> balloons: maybe next time testers are asked to do stuff, maybe explain back that they are as rare as rocking horse droppings? :P
[14:51] <smartboyhw> :D
[14:51] <balloons> :D
[14:51] <balloons> ..
[14:51] <smartboyhw> ..
[14:51] <njin> yeah, we have to put more attention on lts to lts+1
[14:51] <phillw> balloons: that is what I was hoping to do.
[14:51] <jibel> phillw, which problem in upgrade-manager are you talking about ?
[14:51] <jibel> but number ?
[14:51] <jibel> bug
[14:52] <njin> I'we only run one test and it was working
[14:53] <phillw> jibel: I have the logs from #kubuntu-devel, but that is not for a meeting
[14:54] <phillw> can we all migrate to #ubuntu-testing and discuss? this is not strictly a "meeting" topic?
[14:54] <jibel> phillw, ok, paste it on #ubuntu-testing, I'd like to know what a "massive fail" is
[14:54] <smartboyhw> phillw: I AGREE
[14:54] <phillw> please move to #ubuntu-testing
[14:54] <smartboyhw> Let's end the meeting!
[14:54] <phillw> #endmeeting
[14:54] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 22 14:54:55 2012 UTC.
[14:54] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-22-14.01.moin.txt
[14:54] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-22-14.01.html
[14:55] <smartboyhw> Thanks phillw and please migrate to #ubuntu-testing
[15:03] <infinity> o/
[15:03] <jodh> \o
[15:03] <ogra_> yo
[15:03] <stokachu> o/
[15:03]  * slangasek waves
[15:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 22 15:03:55 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:04] <slangasek> #topic lightning round
[15:04] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[15:04] <slangasek> infinity doko stgraber bdmurray slangasek stokachu ogra cjwatson barry jodh ev xnox
[15:04]  * xnox win!
[15:04]  * barry sets his alarm to wake up in 30m
[15:04] <infinity> - Fresh round of kernel SRUs this week
[15:04] <infinity> - Other AA and SRU tasks
[15:04] <infinity> - A few FTBFS fixes
[15:04] <infinity> - Lots of babysitting buildds during and after the DC move
[15:04] <infinity> - Started work on livefs-in-soyuz on the lp-buildd side
[15:04] <infinity> - Started looking at old kernel cleanup
[15:04] <infinity> - d-i upload and tracking fallout from new xorg-server deps
[15:05] <cjwatson> livefs-in-soyuz> yay yay yay
[15:05] <infinity> Also, forgot to sleep last night.
[15:05] <infinity> [...]
[15:06] <slangasek> doko: your turn
[15:06] <doko> - merge binutils cross patches from linaro
[15:06] <doko> - binutils update to support aarch64 and x32
[15:06] <doko> - gcc-snapshot update
[15:06] <doko> - gcc-4.4, gcc-4.6 updates (should be "final")
[15:06] <doko> - gcc bug triage
[15:06] <doko> (done)
[15:06] <stgraber> - 12.04.1
[15:06] <stgraber>  - 12.04.1 team meeting and minutes
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Verified a bunch of SRUs.
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Continuing release process.
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Fixed 10.04 to 12.04 upgrades using media only and regressions introduced by the fixes.
[15:06] <stgraber>  - ISO and upgrade testing
[15:06] <stgraber> - Containers
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Rebased lxc-api-and-python branch, working on a few changes, will be pushed upstream and in Ubuntu before FF
[15:06] <stgraber> - TODO this week
[15:06] <stgraber>  - Continue the work on 12.04.1.
[15:06] <stgraber> - Will be traveling to Montreal on Monday (on 3G while on the bus) and to San Diego on Tuesday for Plumbers
[15:06] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:07] <bdmurray> bug triage of iso testing bug reports
[15:07] <bdmurray> bug triage of ubuntu-release-upgrader duplicates of bug 930839
[15:07] <bdmurray> research into and data gathering of how people modify /etc/default/grub
[15:07] <bdmurray> work on bug 1020994 error reports missing data
[15:07] <bdmurray> worked on and pushed a regression potential finding bug script for the SRU team
[15:07] <bdmurray> reviewed and merged lp:~mvo/apt-clone/show-diff into apt-clone upstream bzr branch
[15:07] <bdmurray> (DONE)
[15:09] <stokachu> want me to go?
[15:09] <ogra_> no, please stay !
[15:09] <stokachu> haha
[15:09] <ogra_> :)
[15:10] <stokachu> slangasek: ?
[15:10] <slangasek> one sec :)
[15:10] <stokachu> ok
[15:11] <slangasek>  * out sick last Thursday
[15:11] <slangasek>  * discussions around llvmpipe on ARM; helped tjaalton prep the new mesa that we can use for testing this
[15:11] <slangasek>  * 12.04.1 prep
[15:11] <slangasek>  * discussions around whoopsie remaining enabled in 12.04.1 and getting better information from errors.u.c
[15:11] <slangasek>  * moved from unity-2d to unity-3d^W unity, finding new bugs to be filed, and not finding my windows anymore
[15:11] <slangasek>   * suggestions on how to restore the metacity-like window switcher welcome
[15:11] <slangasek>  * reviews for multiarch library SRUs
[15:11] <slangasek> (done)
[15:11] <stokachu> bug #932860 - needs review, sponsor
[15:11] <stokachu> bug #977964 - needs review, sponsor
[15:11] <stokachu> bug #977959 - needs review, sponsor
[15:11] <stokachu> bug #1036834 - needs review, sponsor, and possible acceptance into precise nomiated series.
[15:11] <stokachu> bug #154086 - needs acceptance into precise series, and discussion if workaround is a viable fix for inclusion. (comment 12)
[15:11] <stokachu> (done)
[15:12] <slangasek> stokachu: yep, 932860 is on my list... I saw that you had some trouble finding a patch pilot to take it up, sorry about that :/
[15:12] <slangasek> 977964 was on my list as well; I hadn't seen 977959 until now, adding
[15:12] <stokachu> slangasek: np, seems like not many people like multi-arch
[15:13] <slangasek> heh :)
[15:13] <ogra_> done:
[15:13] <ogra_> * a fully virtualized bamboo-feeder using the omap3 server image (with automatic daily testing now, will publish regular results shortly)
[15:13] <ogra_> * flash-kernel preEnv.txt support is done, pending upload later today
[15:13] <ogra_> * various bug triages fixes etc
[15:13] <ogra_> * helped fixing bug 1018907, thanks rsalveti for doing teh heavy lifting work in plymouth !
[15:13] <ogra_> todo:
[15:13] <ogra_> * bug 1028905
[15:13] <ogra_> * PVR, nvidia-tegra, unity-2d, whatever ... desktop on arm fixing ...
[15:13] <ogra_> * progress with the bamboo-feeders and publish daily results
[15:13] <ogra_> * probably add an ac100 to the bamboo-feeder too
[15:13] <ogra_> * prepare for beta
[15:13]  * xnox stokachu i will look into partman-lvm bug, after feature freeze, cause it does affect quantal & now ubiquity as well....
[15:14] <ogra_> and on a sidenote i just got a new BT kbd ... just to notice that BT in ubuntu apparently cant drive both devices at the same time
[15:14] <ogra_> :(
[15:14] <ogra_> ..
[15:14] <stokachu> xnox: ok cool, this was a request from support and i haven't honestly looked into it
[15:14] <stokachu> seems valid though
[15:15] <ogra_> (both devices = BT headset and kbd)
[15:15] <slangasek> adding an ac100 to a bamboo feeder would surely be cannibalism
[15:15] <xnox> stokachu: yes, it is very very valid =)
[15:15] <ogra_> haha
[15:15] <stokachu> xnox: cool thanks for putting on your radar
[15:15] <slangasek> cjwatson: your turn
[15:16] <slangasek> ogra_: there should be no reason that BT generally would fail to drive both devices; could be an adapter-specific problem?
[15:16] <slangasek> (the stack certainly supports multiple simultaneous BT pairings)
[15:16] <ogra_> slangasek, well, i have two usb adapters (one came with the kbd) either the kbd stops taking input and disconnects or the audio gets choppy and the headset disconnects
[15:17] <cjwatson> Packaged libisoburn 1.2.4 and made some initial steps to using it in our CD builds (just amd64 for now to make EFI hybrid ISO9660/USB work; HFS+ hybrid as soon as I can make it work).
[15:17] <ogra_> no matter which adapter i use
[15:17] <cjwatson> Lots of merges.
[15:17] <cjwatson> Increased apt's maximum override line length (bug 1038961).
[15:17] <cjwatson> Enabled biosdevname by default in d-i (bug 891258).
[15:17] <cjwatson> Re-enabled a few lost hardening options (bug 1039554, bug 1039597).
[15:17] <cjwatson> Giant live-build merge, requiring consequential changes to livecd-rootfs and ubuntu-defaults-builder.
[15:17] <cjwatson> Removed the ubuntu-security celebrity from Launchpad, now that we have fully-working Archive.copyPackage.
[15:17] <cjwatson> Cleaned up publisher timestamp handling (bug 1033581).
[15:17] <cjwatson> Fixed some OOPSes when copying packages (bug 1023372, bug 1031089).
[15:17] <cjwatson> Working on an efilinux-signed package.  Will be uploaded today.
[15:17] <cjwatson> Working on final bits and pieces of python3-debian patch set.  Should be uploaded today.
[15:17] <cjwatson> Switched back from unity-2d (which I've been using for months) to unity.  All surprisingly trouble-free so far.
[15:17] <cjwatson> On holiday from Friday 24th to Friday 31st.
[15:17] <cjwatson> ..
[15:17] <slangasek> ogra_: maybe it's your personal EMF interfering with the frequency, not leaving enough bandwidth for both devices? :)
[15:17] <xnox> ogra_: I use wireless keyboard & mouse with a special dongle (not BT) works much nicer =) it's microsoft ergonomic one.
[15:17] <ogra_> heh
[15:18] <barry> been working exclusively on the gwibber backend dbus service port to py3.  making great progress, but it's a huge port and not quite ready for integration and release.  a significant part of the work is to actually write tests for all the code being ported (including over dbus), which has already provided huge benefit.  may not be ready for ff, but upstream is already planning an ffe so the backend work will fall under that.  working
[15:18] <barry> now on the hairiest class in the code base.  lp:~barry/gwibber/py3.  done.
[15:18] <slangasek> ogra_: or it could just be wifi interference too, since it's all in the same band :(
[15:18] <jodh> * misc:
[15:18] <jodh>   - Thurday off.
[15:18] <jodh>   - Booked flights and registered for UDS-R.
[15:18] <jodh> * boot/upstart:
[15:18] <ogra_> xnox, yeah, i have a logitech mouse with such a dongle
[15:18] <jodh>   - Stateful re-exec:
[15:18] <jodh>     - Got Upstart to re-register on D-Bus post-exec.
[15:18] <jodh>     - Identified cause of post re-exec Upstart issues. Currently working
[15:18] <jodh>       on fix.
[15:18] <jodh>     - lots of tidy-up and minor bug fixes.
[15:18] <jodh> Ϡ
[15:19] <ogra_> slangasek, well, if i add the second device it reliably kills the first one (if the second can connect at all) ... no matter what order
[15:19] <stokachu> jodh: next week i'd like to see a unicorn
[15:19] <ev> Week of Thursday, August 16th
[15:19] <ev> - Continued discussion about whether 12.04 should have error reporting
[15:19] <ev>   enabled.
[15:19] <ev> - Finished the implementation of the django-openid-auth integration. As
[15:19] <ev>   mentioned previously, this will let us cache login details and will form the
[15:19] <ev>   foundation of having team-level views.
[15:19] <ev> - Started working in the "90 day moving window" for the average problems per
[15:19] <ev>   day denominator. Had to back fill 12.10 rows of unique system IDs per day,
[15:19] <ev>   as we did before for 12.04. This was slowed down by the webops datacenter
[15:19] <ev>   move. Ready to go, but blocked from landing by the django-openid-auth work,
[15:19] <ev>   which is ahead in the queue.
[15:19] <ev> - Made http://errors.ubuntu.com/?launchpad=false work. This will let us judge
[15:19] <ev>   whether the timeouts we're seeing on the month view and sometimes on the day
[15:19] <ev>   view are caused by talking to Launchpad.
[15:19] <jodh> stokachu: is there not a btrfs glyph yet?
[15:19] <ogra_> and there is not much wifi in my office (there are waves but not many devices... (one AP)
[15:19] <ev> - Meeting with Tom.
[15:19] <ev>   - Discussed the possibility of us handling deployment without involving
[15:19] <ev>     webops. He'd like to see us get the infrastructure charmed and structured
[15:19] <ev>     so deployments are push-button events, with scripts to handle both rollout
[15:19] <ev>     and rollback.
[15:19] <ev>   - He sounds okay with adding Hadoop to our infrastructure, which will let us
[15:19] <ev>     open the data to more free-form queries. Filed an RT:
[15:19] <ev>     https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=55518
[15:19] <stokachu> lol
[15:19] <ev>   - He's going to look into getting the same amount of disk space in the
[15:19] <ev>     staging cluster, as finding a way to sync data into a smaller cluster is
[15:19] <ev>     currently blocking this much-needed ticket.
[15:19] <ev>   - He raised the priority on getting Brian access to the database.
[15:19] <ev> - Continued work on the "multiple problems in a single dialog branch of
[15:19] <ev>   apport:
[15:19] <ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/multiple-simultaneous-errors
[15:19] <ev>   However, Martin is not convinced we have sufficient data to show this is
[15:20] <ev>   actually going to have a net-benefit when you factor in the confusion around
[15:20] <ev>   talking about multiple problems in a single treeview. Not dropping it
[15:20] <ev>   per-se, but dropping the priority to focus back on other work.
[15:20] <ev> - Fixed a security vulnerability in daisy.ubuntu.com.
[15:20] <ev> - Ran some numbers for Brian to determine whether the recent change to apport
[15:20] <ev>   to fix the missing Packages field was having a detrimental impact.
[15:20] <ev> - Finally got package version numbers in the drop-down box on
[15:20] <ev>   errors.ubuntu.com. The data currently comes from Launchpad.
[15:20] <ev> - Nearly finished implementing URL field specification for errors.ubuntu.com.
[15:20] <ev>   So soon you'll be able to do this:
[15:20] <ev>   https://errors.ubuntu.com/filter/+release/Ubuntu 12.10/+package/software-center/+version/5.3.0/+period/20120801
[15:20] <ev> - Reviewed software-center's recoverable problem integration:
[15:20] <ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/software-center/polkit-lp785117/+merge/112292
[15:20] <ev>   We have our first consumer, yay!
[15:20] <ev> - Finally sent the first State of the Ubuntu Error Tracker email:
[15:20] <ev>   https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035636.html
[15:20] <ev>   Hopefully this will bring more developers to the team and keep us all in
[15:20] <ev>   sync. Suggestions always welcome on how we can make it even easier to get
[15:20] <ev>   involved.
[15:20] <ev> - Pointed http://wubi.sf.net to the downloads page, finally.
[15:20] <ev> - Looked into RT 55339 for webops, which was about picking a better compaction
[15:20] <ev>   strategy for the Cassandra cluster:
[15:20] <ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=55339
[15:20] <ev> - More bug triage for errors and daisy.
[15:20] <ogra_> dmesg
[15:20] <ev> - Fixed wubi for dailies in 12.04.1.
[15:20] <ev> (done)
[15:21] <xnox> * Merges - done:
[15:21] <xnox>  - mdadm, cryptsetup and lvm2 uploaded (thanks slangasek for reviewing lvm2)
[15:21] <xnox> * Ubiquity - done:
[15:21] <xnox>  - removed pictograms on the ask page (regaining vertical space)
[15:21] <xnox>  - made crypto passphrase page centred and fixed
[15:21] <xnox>  - crypt option visible by default
[15:21] <xnox> * Ubiquity - in progress:
[15:21] <xnox>  - re-factoring advanced partitioner UI to fit/add crypt, lvm and raid options
[15:21] <xnox>  - advanced partitioner encryption in progress
[15:21] <xnox>  - "missed" encryption key sizes & algorithms in the design spec, mpt is on it.
[15:21] <xnox> ☙❦❧
[15:22] <slangasek> jodh: you saw that json-c 0.10 has been packaged?
[15:22]  * ogra_ wonders if there isnt a way to force a bigger size for these utf toys on IRC
[15:22] <ogra_> its really hard to recognize what they are
[15:23] <jodh> slangasek: great news!
[15:23] <cjwatson> jodh: shall I sync that into quantal for you?
[15:23] <cjwatson> if nobody else has hit the button already
[15:24] <slangasek> jodh: yep!  is there anything we need to coordinate with diwic before accepting it?
[15:24] <jodh> slangasek: I believe he's happy if someone runs through then normal set of PA tests, but will double check...
[15:25] <xnox> ogra_: is your desk made out of wood or metal?! made a massive difference to my wireless keyboard lagging
[15:25] <cjwatson> well, just shout when you want it synced
[15:25] <ogra_> wood
[15:25] <xnox> ogra_: hmm...
[15:26] <jodh> cjwatson: ta.
[15:26] <slangasek> ev: so the timeouts on http://errors.ubuntu.com/?launchpad=false have been much less frequent; I've even occasionally been able to load the 12.04 month view.  Does that confirm that the timeouts are from the launchpad bits?
[15:27] <ev> slangasek: I would have very much preferred it if you said, "the timeouts no longer exist with launchpad=false" :-/
[15:27] <ev> slangasek: so yeah, I suspect the launchpad bits are playing a role
[15:27] <ev> but there's more going on here
[15:27] <cjwatson> Launchpad has had a good deal of teething trouble with the DC move, which has been worked on over the last couple of days, so I expect there's been some change due to that alone
[15:27]  * ev pines for that JMX ticket to be finished
[15:28] <slangasek> ev: hmm, that might be the case... let me pay closer attention over the next couple of days
[15:28] <ev> I have a todo list item to check to make sure our etag checking is working
[15:28] <ev> it kind of feels like it isn't
[15:28] <ev> as subsequent loads on my local environment take just as long
[15:28] <ev> which shouldn't happen with such caching
[15:29]  * ogra_ has something else too 
[15:30] <slangasek> xnox: so do encryption key sizes / algorithms really need to be part of the ubiquity UI?  As opposed to, say, a preseed?
[15:30] <ogra_> i'm constantly asked by seb128 during the release meeting about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-xdg-runtime-dir and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-upstart-session-requirements ...
[15:31] <ogra_> while slangasek already gave me feedback for the xdg spec it isnt really clear if the other one will happen at all in time for beta1
[15:31] <jodh> ogra_: highly unlikely in my view.
[15:31] <ogra_> if it doesnt we should probably contact the desktop team about it
[15:32] <jodh> ogra_: I thought we were waiting on them to tell us relative priorities?
[15:32] <ogra_> jodh, yep, i thought so
[15:32] <slangasek> ogra_: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-upstart-session-requirements> note that this blueprint was marked 'low', because that session wound up being a laundry list of everything they wanted upstart to do
[15:32] <ogra_> slangasek, i know, i was there :)
[15:33] <xnox> slangasek: they will work in a preseed, it was a pointer to mpt to think about / design. Didn't start implementing them in the ubiquity UI. But it is somewhat important to at least state the options for certification & compliance.
[15:33] <ogra_> i was actually surprised to see it accepted for quantal
[15:33] <slangasek> ogra_: so, given that they acknowledged none of this was required, it was prioritized accordingly
[15:33] <ogra_> k
[15:33] <slangasek> xnox: ok
[15:34] <slangasek> ogra_: the xdg thing, by contrast, was singled out as something they do have a significant need for, and we should still land that this cycle
[15:34] <slangasek> #topic bugs
[15:35] <slangasek> is everyone getting their money's worth out of errors.ubuntu.com? :)
[15:35] <ev> can I say yes?
[15:35] <slangasek> sure!
[15:35] <ogra_> at least some entertainment on the ubuntu-release ML :)
[15:35] <infinity> I've paid nothing for it, and it's been worth every penny.
[15:35] <ev> lol
[15:35] <ogra_> heh
[15:36] <slangasek> there was a sessioninstaller bug in quantal, regressing due to an aptdaemon behavior change, that we caught and fixed the other day
[15:37] <slangasek> so that's good
[15:37] <ev> there's an idea. Teach it to identify the uploaders who have the most detrimental impact on the quality of Ubuntu, then rank them in a new page with a donation form to send them on a holiday where Internet access is scarce.
[15:37] <slangasek> oh cool, errors.u.c js just made my browser unresponsive
[15:37] <slangasek> nuts to that
[15:38] <ev> slangasek: get a better browser
[15:38] <slangasek> ev: spoken like a true IE developer
[15:38] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything you think needs more attention than it's getting?
[15:39] <ev> slangasek: I'm one man. I can't support every platform. And it's high time you gave up Mosaic anyway.
[15:39] <bdmurray> bug 985652 - its not clear to me if work is required by us there
[15:39] <slangasek> ev: hah
[15:39] <ev> but I have no idea what debugging tools are available to you there, but if you can isolate the problem I'm happy to fix it
[15:40] <slangasek> ev: it's firefox, so I have no idea what debugging tools are available either :P
[15:40] <ev> firebug probably has something, I guess?
[15:40] <slangasek> ev: but when I view 12.04+month, it gets really slow
[15:40] <ev> hmm
[15:41] <ev> I'll have a look at the javascript around that view and see if anything jumps out
[15:41]  * slangasek looks at bug #985652
[15:41] <slangasek> ev: cheers
[15:41] <jodh> ev: it'd be nice if when you change a pull down, it blanks the existing data.
[15:42] <ev> jodh: can you elaborate?
[15:42] <ev> you mean while loading?
[15:42]  * xnox just lost irc at 16:35....
[15:42] <jodh> ev: you get "loading..." but it keeps the existing data until either you get the new data or you get an error.
[15:43] <jodh> ev: in fact the existing data is retained even if there is an error.
[15:43] <ev> jodh: right. Can you file a bug against http://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+filebug please?
[15:43] <ev> mentioning the data being retained too, as I haven't seen that yet myself
[15:43] <slangasek> cjwatson: so you commented on 985652 before release; any idea what the problem is there?
[15:43] <slangasek> could this be related to our locale disabling for logging?
[15:43] <slangasek> if the string is from apt, this seems at least somewhat plausible
[15:44] <slangasek> xnox: just talking about bugs
[15:45] <xnox> slangasek: so you didn't see my question about three bugs?
[15:45] <slangasek> ev, jodh: it would be nice to keep the old data there while the new load is in progress, it gives me something to look at while the browser is busy :D
[15:45] <slangasek> xnox: no
[15:46] <ev> slangasek: hmm, good point
[15:46] <jodh> slangasek/ev: bug 1040140.
[15:47] <cjwatson> slangasek: I don't think I actually ever managed to trace that.  The locale disabling is meant to be arranged such that it's just for dpkg
[15:47] <slangasek> cjwatson: ah, ok
[15:47] <xnox> no plymouth LUKS prompt after full-disk encryption install. Couple of similar
[15:47] <xnox> bugs, here is one from myself.
[15:47] <xnox> bug 1038055
[15:47] <xnox> Should this be targeted for Quantal beta-2 or something like that?
[15:47] <cjwatson> Not that I can remember where *that*'s implemented
[15:47] <xnox> Also, please comment and share dev-mapper/udev wisdom on how to fix these two bugs in a sane way without breaking the whole world.
[15:47] <xnox> bug 460906
[15:47] <xnox> bug 995709
[15:47]  * cjwatson greps frenetically
[15:48] <cjwatson> Ah yes, DPKG_UNTRANSLATED_MESSAGES
[15:48] <slangasek> bdmurray: so I think the answer on 985652 is that yes, action is needed, but it's not obvious how to fix
[15:48] <cjwatson> So ubiquity does set DPKG_UNTRANSLATED_MESSAGES, but apt ignores that
[15:48] <cjwatson> (Rightly so)
[15:49] <bdmurray> slangasek: okay
[15:49] <xnox> cjwatson: ok, but what locale do we spawn apt in? /me can't remember seeing translated apt logs during live-cd. Will test while doing other ubiquity work.
[15:49] <cjwatson> It should be in the installation locale
[15:49] <cjwatson> It's possible that the locale isn't generated?
[15:49] <slangasek> xnox: 460906> don't use by-uuid for dm devices
[15:50] <cjwatson> Because doing so is very slow and takes oodles of memory
[15:50] <slangasek> cjwatson: but surely if the rest of the UI is translated, the locale is there?
[15:51] <cjwatson> No, because ubiquity makes special arrangements for itself
[15:51] <slangasek> ah
[15:51] <cjwatson> Its own translations come from debconf, which doesn't care whether the locale is generated
[15:52] <cjwatson> We do generate the locale at some point, so it may just be a matter of messing about to pull that earlier
[15:52] <cjwatson> I can give that a g
[15:52] <slangasek> xnox: so my position is that bug #460906 is medium importance at highest; we never use UUID to identify dm devices when setting up /etc/fstab in the installer, because this is a known issue
[15:52] <cjwatson> *go
[15:52] <xnox> slangasek: but update-grub notices them (if they are mounted) and generates entries for them....
[15:53] <slangasek> xnox: so anyone who's trying to reference their lvm devices by uuid has a gun pointed at their foot and we didn't put it there
[15:53] <slangasek> xnox: ok; that's a bug in update-grub then
[15:53] <xnox> slangasek: snapshots that is.
[15:53] <xnox> slangasek: then should we stop generating those symlinks for lvm devices?
[15:54] <slangasek> xnox: we should not spend time on the issue at all, because there's no perfect solution and the workarounds are well established
[15:54] <xnox> ok.
[15:54] <slangasek> but if update-grub is misbehaving (which I've never seen), that should be fixed
[15:55] <slangasek> as for 995709... I have no idea :/
[15:55] <slangasek> sorry
[15:55] <slangasek> bug #1038055 is on my list to look at
[15:56] <slangasek> anything else on bugs?
[15:57] <bdmurray> bug 837054
[15:57] <slangasek> #topic AOB
[15:58] <xnox> bdmurray: i can implement a filter for it. Not sure if to do a set(location) or set(location, coordinates)
[15:59] <slangasek> any other botanists?
[15:59] <slangasek> can we prod the data provider about their broken data?
[15:59] <bdmurray> that is all from me
[16:00] <slangasek> otherwise, what ensures that "unique by coordinates" gives you the /right/ name?
[16:00] <xnox> slangasek: well the data sometimes is good. for riga i get like "Riga", "Riga Internation Airport", "Riga Central", etc... but all of them are in the same timezone.
[16:00] <xnox> all of Latvia is in the same timezone =)
[16:01] <slangasek> xnox: ok, but if you look at the "New York" case, you see that a number of the values returned are translations of "New York City" into various languages
[16:02] <slangasek> and there's nothing that tells which one should be preferred... unless you just take the first one in order, I guess?
[16:02] <brendand> slangasek, it seems to me there's no good way to filter it and be sure that you've chosen the 'right' entry
[16:02] <slangasek> yep
[16:02] <brendand> slangasek, so the data is at fault really, not the code
[16:02] <slangasek> hence my suggestion that we try to get the data provider to fix their feed
[16:02] <brendand> slangasek, who's the data provider?
[16:02] <slangasek> not sure
[16:03] <ev> we are
[16:03] <xnox> do we want to show: all names in the installer locale, or all names in "city language"
[16:03] <brendand> slangasek, the server is an ubuntu one, so isn't it controlled by us?
[16:03] <ev> effectively
[16:03] <slangasek> ev: ah, heh ;)
[16:03] <slangasek> ev: so who among us maintains it?
[16:03]  * ev chuckles
[16:03] <brendand> ev - you?
[16:03] <infinity> slangasek: Are you chanelling seb?
[16:04] <slangasek> xnox: can you please file an RT about this, referencing the bug?
[16:04] <infinity> But with an extra 'n'...
[16:04] <ev> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-geonames-hackers/ubuntu-geonames/trunk/files
[16:04] <slangasek> oh
[16:04] <slangasek> ok, so not an RT just yet :)
[16:05] <ev> http://geoname-lookup.ubuntu.com/?query=New%20York
[16:05] <brendand> ev, so we *don't* control it then
[16:05] <slangasek> xnox: do you want to fix the above branch? :)
[16:06] <ev> mterry also has hacked on it in the past, if I find myself under a bus once you've finished the branch
[16:06] <xnox> ok then.
[16:07] <infinity> ev: Want to add foundations to that team?  Or ubuntu-installer?  Or something that seems appropriate and larger than you and mterry?
[16:07] <ev> sure
[16:07] <slangasek> bdmurray: ok, triaged :)
[16:07] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:07] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 22 16:07:58 2012 UTC.
[16:07] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-22-15.03.moin.txt
[16:07] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-22-15.03.html
[16:08] <slangasek> thanks everyone
[16:08] <ogra_> thanks !
[16:08] <ev> thanks
[16:08]  * ogra_ goes out to get a BT 3.0 dongle
[16:08] <ev> infinity: done on both
[16:08] <jodh> thanks
[16:08] <xnox> ogra_: British Telecom dongles aren't that good, just saying
[16:08] <ogra_> lol
[16:09] <ogra_> also hard to get in germany
[16:09] <ev> xnox: T-Mobile's are decent
[16:09] <ev> and cheap
[16:09] <xnox> ev: but they are "Everything & Everywhere"
[16:09] <ev> equally, if you have an iPhone, just create a hotspot
[16:09] <xnox> cheers =)
[16:09] <ev> that's what I do on Three and it's ace
[17:51] <RamiAM> Hello
[17:52] <RamiAM> can any one help me plz?
[17:55] <TheLordOfTime> RamiAM:  help is in #ubuntu
[17:55] <TheLordOfTime> /join #ubuntu
[17:55] <TheLordOfTime> ^ to go there
[18:01] <RamiAM> thnx